Thank you for another amazing video . Very educational and informational for those getting started that might believe it's their rifle or ammo when in actuality it's their scope rings or bases . Thank you for making a video confirming that it's not always your gun or the ammo. Thank you . I've been telling my buddies for a long time that the scope plays a big part in your groups . My dad used to preach that all the time. You need a quality scope with quality rings and quality bases. My dad was very particular on how the Rings scope and base all came together . Wish he was still with us today R.I.P DAD . God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
I'm a gunsmith/builder myself. I've had a out-of-spec scope rail bite me and the rear ring wouldn't tighten down on the rail properly regardless of what rings I used. I discovered that the rail had taper which caused the issue. This was a factory rail on an expensive factory rifle. I've also had expensive, well-known rings that the holes for the ring caps were not tapped quite deep enough, so even though the rings caps were torqued to spec, they were not holding the scope properly. Based on these two experiences, we chase the threads on all the rings and measure the scope rails on each custom build. You simply cannot trust your reputation to someone else, no matter how well regarded or how expensive they are. I explain to customers that a quality scope is not just how good the glass is, but how repeatable and accurate the adjustments are and how robust the scope mechanisms are. A good way to think of a rifle scope is an "optical micrometer" of sorts and you need the adjustments to be accurate, repeatable, and reliable, especially if you are frequently dialing the scope for range. I've had customers with really expensive scopes in cheap rings mounted on rifles that wouldn't hold zero and the scope and/or the rifle always gets the blame, when in fact it is the fault of cheap rings. I also don't like "ultralight" rings because rings are the wrong place to save weight, especially on a magnum hunting rifle that will get knocked around. It's funny how customers will spend thousands of $ on the scope and rifle only to protest on $150 -200 for a set of quality rings.
@ Hopefully you can get it sorted. I can tell you that every single part of that rifle matters to the ultimate precision. I’ve learned that even things like different muzzle brakes and bipods make a difference in how the rifle groups. Good luck!
It was pretty obvious the average groups were stressing you. We all know you put a lot of work into building a quality rifle, you expect results. Unfortunately anything mechanical can take a crap on you at some point. Nice to see that group after swapping scopes. That is a sweet looking rifle and the shell casing on the bottom is a classy addition.
Wow this just helped my light bulb come on . I have been struggling with a 6 BRA the last two range trips . Groups opening up 3 in one hole then 2 out lying .Checking everything of course but not scope . I thought it might be the colder temperatures as speed is also down , maybe that’s it more powder . 1200 rounds on barrel so I have never wore a 6 ml out that quickly ,bore scope doesn’t show anything of big concern. Thank you for this explanation and video. Scope change coming next !
That is absolutely crazy. Lucky for you that you decided to switch scopes. Your repeated accuracy with different rifles is very impressive. Obviously your doing something right.
I recently just experienced the EXACT same thing. I had a new gun built and wasn’t happy with it. I kept getting random groups just like yours. I put a trusted optic on it and have shot it two different outings now .and it cut the groups size in half. I shot 5 groups this afternoon and averaged all the groups together. It was .4 MOA. With the other optic that cost way more it is a 1 moa rifle.
Is there a less complicated scope that might be more reliable for shooters who aren’t able to pick up the small details like you are that we can put on our guns and see if our gun is capable of better groups then our adjustable scopes will allow us?
A great insight into the enigma that is riflescopes. I can say with unequivocal certainty ...The Schmidt Bender straight 10 X 42 power 30MM is the greatest scope that I have ever owned. Forever grateful to Scott Harold for recommending it. Why in the hell should they discontinue it?
Hello QMM, I feel your pain. I have been driven Insane by the same problem, not knowing if the rifle accuracy or the scope is the problem. I have done many scope changes when testing rifles. We need to convice an optics company to build a Vetting Scope. What is a Vetting Scope you ask.? It is a fixed power, 18-25x with a fine reticle. Parallax set for 100 yards. In standard air conditions . It has a fixed reticle. there are no side knobs for adjustment. ( it will look strange) The only adjustment is the rear diaopter. You mount the scope and shoot at a large target. If it shoots 13 inches low and 2 inches right, that does not matter. You can actually test the rifle accuracy. When you are done you can move to the intended scope and will have a baseline, and know if it does not perform. Cheers, The Captain
I appreciate that your insights are born directly from your own experience. Question; would Swarowski's integrated rail mount scopes eliminate some of those variables, thusly making it more reliable?
I do wish you would divulge which one piece mount was causing issues with scopes. I own a couple different one piece mounts and several different brands of good rings. I have a couple of MPA one piece, an ARC one piece and a Spurh. I'm just curious as to which one you said was the common denominator with scope issues.
Dear Sir - do not wish to damage any company - unless they are making junk. This stuff is high quality, but there is some unknown relationship that breaks things. Thanks.........
Based on one small group at one particular time under those exact conditions? Once piece quality mounts such as spur or mpa etc and they should always be lightly lapped to check and scopes normally fail do to bad mounting practices all though there are exceptions but with today's quality control on good scopes such as nightforce makes the odds really low. Steel rings contribute to excessive vibration transfer while aluminum helps to insulate some. You could try the same ammunition at a larger sample size and in different conditions and you will see what it really prints. With rifle set up exactly the same the shooters repeatability is more likely the difference. If your not staying in position (which should be square behind the rifle not humped over on the side) and maintaining points of contact with out upsetting the rifles alignment while cycling rounds will have a tremendous effect on consistency. Shoot a 10 or more round group the have another shooter do the same and then maybe you could say if it's the equipment or not. Tiny groups of raising top and looking things over then remounting rifle is not going to give good data on the rifle or ammunition and reading group shapes is very effective but only in different conditions. Shooting at say 7am and then comparing it to what was printed at 10am could change the shape of the group but even more than that each group shapes will tell you if you are on the edge of pressure or at the bottom of an accuracy node and any change in temp will greatly affect a tiny group. Real grouping is not 3-5 rounds because that is not giving you reality. Do ladders and such are only to get you into the ball park. It takes hundreds of rounds to establish a consistent charge weight, seating depth and the actual grouping ability of the rifle/ammunition and that's not counting the shooters marksmanship
@quarterminutemagnums true accuracy and precision takes time and money otherwise all the small group with small round count videos on TH-cam would be reality.
@ I wish I was. I figured if we beat the barrels of our Buffalo rifles with a wooden mallet to find the null, I also use a similar method in finding issues with aircraft propellors. The ball end of a tuning fork is actually a sounding mechanism which will change the sound of a ringing tuning fork. They work exceptionally well “ringing out” defects. The null spot between the optics bell and erector I find to be about 1/3rd of the way between the objective and the erector. The least weird scope I own is a military contract MkIV Leupold with a 34 mm tube, the squirliest scope I own is an IOR Valdada 1X8-35 on a 35 mm tube. I loath removing the Valdada from the rifle when I have to redo the bedding, god only knows where it will shoot after it’s reinstalled. I also tried an ultrasound probe at work on an old Leupold MkIV M1 30 mm tube scope and the length of the forward tube gave some interesting results because, I assume, the weight of the glass is further out on the moment arm than the relationship between the objective and the erector. I’d like to see some very high speed video of high powered rounds being fired and the effects generated by the recoil through the scope. I’ll bet it’s horrifying!
I have a bergara 7mm PRC. I get my best groups and speed with RL26. I have about 3-4 lbs left and it's virtually impossible to get. I only got this on a trade with someone. I also had decent results with Retumbo. I am, although, slightly disappointed with the performance of the 7MMPRC. Hornady hyped it to be what it's not. I quit shooting heavy bullets with it and went to Nosler AB160s. 3100 FPS shooting 0.3" groups. I'm shooting 175s out of my 28 Nosler but I'm sticking with the 160s in the 7MMPRC.
Interesting discussion. I’m not in the same world as you, but I have rifles and scopes that I do and don’t trust due to rock solid consistency and inconsistency, respectively. I’ve had rifle accuracy go to heck somewhat suddenly and haven’t had time to figure out why, relegating rifles to the back of the safe.
Would love to know what the deal is on the one peice mount. I've got an NX8 4x32 with a one peice mount (nightforce) 7:39 . I have an athlon etr that was shooting smaller groups with same load. And hadn't been able to get the same performance out of the NX8. Makes me want to test new 2 piece rings (I've got some vortex 34mm and 34mm warnes)
Vicki is amazing!!! She’s doing everything. Do you think you can get faster velocities with 175 eldx out of 7prc or 7mag? I heard you say you got close to 3100 with 180s out of a 7 mag, that’s crazy how did you achieve that?
Hornady Match gave me an SD of 29 and ES of 79. Seating depth is all over the place. A box of 20 gave me 4 different measurements off ogive. I guess you could always separate em 🙄. After seeing your groups with the match i guess it wasnt me after all last trip 😄. My last 4 groups consistently had 2 touch and the other went elsewhere
It's an interesting video. Did you try a different set of rings on the kahles 5-25 before shipping it. I use mostly ARC m-brace rings on my rifles. Their 1 piece is also good. I have badger, night force, seekins, talley, leupold, Warne, hawkins, eratac, and I prefer the ARC rings. I have not really seen differences in accuracy from a ring position on a scope unless the pic rail was low quality. I generally mount my rings as far apart as possible, depending on the action length. I have seen a few hawkins and talley allum rings crack but never the others. I agree that the 10x Schmidt is solid. So is the henshold 10x. The premier scopes were top, and the Tangent Thetas seemed to be also. I have only sent three scopes in for repair. A 3-12 Schmidt, 3.5-15 NF, and a vx3 leupold. Only the Schmidt was truly broken in the erector. The others were not as damaged. That 7 prc you built is a shooter, and it should be with that action and barrel. I like h1000 and n565 with a 180 in the prc. What bix n andy trigger are you using? I like the Tac Sport x Pro for competition type shooting.. I have 2 bix Dakotas, and they are good for hunting. The trigger tech diamond is also nice, and a jewel is good too for more techy guys. Being a gunsmith, you probably tried them all. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Had a similar issue. I think you should probably not blame the scope but just the rings.... especially if you have used them more than once on different scopes.
@@quarterminutemagnums you rock sir. I wish I had the space like you to build. I have trust issues.. build quality these days has taken ashit in most things…was wondering though, what paper you’re using for your targets.
Are you saying “Max off seat jam?” Is that just a fancy term for just in the lands, or in a gun with a magazine, would that be as long as the magazine would let me load?
Dear Sir - it was the best I could afford at the time; still want high quality U.S.A. made machine, but VERY expensive. Buy my Grizzly and I will upgrade.......thanks.
Hello , really like your content. Great job in what you do, just wondering did you ever build a rifle for European customer ?? Kind regards from Portugal 🇵🇹🇵🇹 God bless
@quarterminutemagnums Those guys are amazing to work with, and you won't be unhappy with the quality! I have several and I'm ordering a cpl more after Thanksgiving.
Hmmmmmm….time to send my Leica amplus in…I have been struggling with consistency with that thing…. Zero at 200 but shoots 3” high at 300 without touching the dial, hmmmm…thank you for the video, learned something today
I’ve got a $279 Nikon from Walmart on my .223 carbine in good steel Talley rings that’s held zero since 2010 me bangin it all over hell. Bdc600 and hit a 28” flat screen with ball ammo off top my truck. What got me tryin LR
I had to send a new Leu back due to no elevation adjustment right out of the box. No clicks, no movement on the bore sighter grid. They fixed it. Had a well used Bush break on me twice. They fixed it.
Awesome build. "Fun" lesson relearned. Sorry about your scope man. I had a 300 Win Mag built on a Weatherby Mark V action kill three scopes. Two Burris and a Zeiss. The only scope that held up to that rifle was my first Nightforce.
i have a bushnell clasic 400 scope my grandfather had on his remington model 742 30- 06 bought both in 1976. so recently i gave my son the gun and he put new scope on the gun. but recently 11/8/24 i bought a new xpr 270 and decided for hell of it i put it on this new winchester. i shot one in bullsye 2nd shot in same hole and 3rd shot half in first hole. all with a 48 year old scope . so i agree with proven scopes
Unless I missed something, you not only changed scopes but then went to factory ammo. I wonder if you had changed ammo before you changed the scope out would you have gotten a similar small group size? I'm not discounting any of what your saying, but you changed two things. In general, if the scope is proven, and assuming there are no defective tolerances in any of the mounting tolerances, then I'd say your handloads are not optimized for that gun, and by luck of the draw the factory ammo was in this case. JMO. Great accuracy on the handloads proves the gun is put together correctly and that the components are true and square.
Im not claiming to be an expert and I do believe scope rings, scope placement, torque, alignment, and several other variables have could have a correlation with accuracy. However, 3 shots, 4 shots, and even 5 shots is not nearly enough data to confirm or even suggest anything. A 5 shot group at .5 MOA will very easily shoot a .1 MOA 3 shot group (eventually). Simply not enough data. The only thing a 5 shot group does is tell if you if it has the possibility of being horrible. For example, if you shoot 5 shots and group size is 1.5, something is wrong. If you shoot 5 shots and it’s .3, this tells you nothing, other than it might not suck. Good information but purely suggestive. I have also used hundreds of cantilever style mounts and have never damaged a scope.
You should clear up a few things. The case internal volume is different from brand to brand. Which will effect pressure and velocity. Bat actions hold pressure very well and the case may not tell the whole story until further investigation. Your using reloader 25 which may not be the best powder choice. 26 is snappy IMO and fast. Not my preferred liking by the recoil. I like other powders that the recoil is more a push. Ramshot grand will Easley get you over 3k. But look at the facts. Your shooting less powder for a fair speed. You have years of experience with the 7mag. So I'm confused why you would mention to never load more powder in a case then the recommended amount published. I went to hodgens and nosler and it shows the 7prc outperforming the 7mag. I understand physics, that the 7mag can hold more powder and should be able to beat the 7 prc.
Times are changing. The new PRCs and long ogives like 6.5CM have much tighter factory chambers and ammo manufacturing specs than previous guns. Handloading doesnt have enough of a margin to brag about anymore. He proves this at 39:55 and 59:25 when factory rounds make 1 hole. I've got an off the shelf Remington 700 7prc that will stack off the shelf rounds at 100yds. Why am I going to reload for it? Either that or ELD-Match are that much better than Bergers. Hes got a lot of knowledge, good video.
It would have been nice to see a few more groups with the customer's scope installed. I can't speak for you, but speaking for myself, one good group means I was lucky. Two good groups mean I was very lucky. Three good groups mean I might be on to something. Arriving at conclusions without repeatable results has had me chasing my tail more than I would care to admit.
it's parallax .... sometimes you have to set parallax before eyepiece sometimes you set your eyepiece before parallax ... I always slightly move my head to make sure the parallax is ok before I take the shot and surprise surprise sometimes the target is perfectly in focus but the parallax is not and when I move my head the target shifts, I then adjust the parallax to it does not move and the shot goes exactly where it's told to go but the target is slightly out of focus,, this is with an S3 , if I wear glasses never exclude parallax ....
I know ammo and time cost money for sure, but I would like to see you shoot that rifle again with more Hornady factory 180 eldm.......perhaps different lots if you have it. In my experience, the latest Hornady 7prc ammo is wildly inconsistent..........bullet diameters measuring from ideal to 6-7 tenths over.......and ES over 20rnds of 120fps+. That is ridiculous for ammo that says MATCH on the box.
always good to test things, but brother at 54 minutes i thought you were going to ND with your finger in the trigger messing with the gun and talking to the camera. No matter how experienced we get, always safety first!
@quarterminutemagnums I have a savage 30-06 that has point of impact shift down and left on the fourth shot every time. It has a laundry list of things I finally got straightened out but the poi shift is the pencil barrel. .667 group on a gun I have a measley 600 in. I'll take it!!
get the hip waders on the $h!t is getting the deep now. unless you are a very sophisticated shooter.... you're so full of BS I don't think you even realize it when you are. it's true, the most successful gunsmiths are the ones that can BS the best.
Thank you for another amazing video . Very educational and informational for those getting started that might believe it's their rifle or ammo when in actuality it's their scope rings or bases . Thank you for making a video confirming that it's not always your gun or the ammo. Thank you . I've been telling my buddies for a long time that the scope plays a big part in your groups . My dad used to preach that all the time. You need a quality scope with quality rings and quality bases. My dad was very particular on how the Rings scope and base all came together . Wish he was still with us today R.I.P DAD . God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Dear Sir - appreciated, very well stated, Thank you.......
Another video with a great lesson for those of us looking for tight groups.
I'm a gunsmith/builder myself. I've had a out-of-spec scope rail bite me and the rear ring wouldn't tighten down on the rail properly regardless of what rings I used. I discovered that the rail had taper which caused the issue. This was a factory rail on an expensive factory rifle. I've also had expensive, well-known rings that the holes for the ring caps were not tapped quite deep enough, so even though the rings caps were torqued to spec, they were not holding the scope properly. Based on these two experiences, we chase the threads on all the rings and measure the scope rails on each custom build. You simply cannot trust your reputation to someone else, no matter how well regarded or how expensive they are.
I explain to customers that a quality scope is not just how good the glass is, but how repeatable and accurate the adjustments are and how robust the scope mechanisms are. A good way to think of a rifle scope is an "optical micrometer" of sorts and you need the adjustments to be accurate, repeatable, and reliable, especially if you are frequently dialing the scope for range.
I've had customers with really expensive scopes in cheap rings mounted on rifles that wouldn't hold zero and the scope and/or the rifle always gets the blame, when in fact it is the fault of cheap rings. I also don't like "ultralight" rings because rings are the wrong place to save weight, especially on a magnum hunting rifle that will get knocked around. It's funny how customers will spend thousands of $ on the scope and rifle only to protest on $150 -200 for a set of quality rings.
Dear Sir - excellent points; very much appreciated. There is SO MUCH MORE to all of this than most people understand! Thank you !
Great points. I have a situation now and I wonder if it’s not the mount causing me issues. I’m going to try different rings tomorrow.
@ Hopefully you can get it sorted. I can tell you that every single part of that rifle matters to the ultimate precision. I’ve learned that even things like different muzzle brakes and bipods make a difference in how the rifle groups. Good luck!
@@vettepilot427 Phone me....................thanks.
Optical micrometer. That’s a great way to put it.
Thank you Vicky for another great video.
Brilliant Sir, what a privilege to see such a tiny group, God has certainly equipped you with everything you need, and I mean everything!
Thanks..................
A quart of a minute is a life style, there's no other way to put it.
Dear Sir - very well stated! Thank you!
The detail in your videos still amazes me.
Thank you...................
It was pretty obvious the average groups were stressing you. We all know you put a lot of work into building a quality rifle, you expect results. Unfortunately anything mechanical can take a crap on you at some point. Nice to see that group after swapping scopes. That is a sweet looking rifle and the shell casing on the bottom is a classy addition.
Wow this just helped my light bulb come on . I have been struggling with a 6 BRA the last two range trips . Groups opening up 3 in one hole then 2 out lying .Checking everything of course but not scope . I thought it might be the colder temperatures as speed is also down , maybe that’s it more powder . 1200 rounds on barrel so I have never wore a 6 ml out that quickly ,bore scope doesn’t show anything of big concern. Thank you for this explanation and video. Scope change coming next !
Dear Sir - please let us know your results. Thanks...............
Doing a fine job sir. You and your family earned your money this day.
Somedays are like this, thankful for the better days.
Take care
Thanks.............
That is absolutely crazy. Lucky for you that you decided to switch scopes. Your repeated accuracy with different rifles is very impressive. Obviously your doing something right.
Thanks..............never trust anything!
Would love to hear your range review of the Zero compromise optic 4-20x or the 5-27x.
Dear Sir - you buy it, we will test it. Thanks.......................
Appreciate for sharing your experience here. Brilliant information. Please keep doing it.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience. Truly going were no else is willing to go or share👍
Dear Sir - boldly doing what no one else is dumb enough to do !
I recently just experienced the EXACT same thing. I had a new gun built and wasn’t happy with it. I kept getting random groups just like yours. I put a trusted optic on it and have shot it two different outings now .and it cut the groups size in half. I shot 5 groups this afternoon and averaged all the groups together. It was .4 MOA. With the other optic that cost way more it is a 1 moa rifle.
I would love to seen you follow that group up with a couple more! No doubt it would have grouped well!
Dear Sir - it happens more often than people think. Glad you got it resolved. Thanks.
Way too much stress......must have a stopping point. Thanks.
Is there a less complicated scope that might be more reliable for shooters who aren’t able to pick up the small details like you are that we can put on our guns and see if our gun is capable of better groups then our adjustable scopes will allow us?
Dear Sir - the Bushnell Elite's are good................see old video. Thanks.
I have a Bullberry 20" Encore 6.5-284 that does .2 for shot, soft set jam, thanks for an awesome video
A great insight into the enigma that is riflescopes. I can say with unequivocal certainty ...The Schmidt Bender straight 10 X 42 power 30MM is the greatest scope that I have ever owned. Forever grateful to Scott Harold for recommending it. Why in the hell should they discontinue it?
Appreciated.................thanks.
Hello QMM,
I feel your pain.
I have been driven Insane by the same problem, not knowing if the rifle accuracy or the scope is the problem.
I have done many scope changes when testing rifles.
We need to convice an optics company to build a Vetting Scope.
What is a Vetting Scope you ask.?
It is a fixed power, 18-25x with a fine reticle.
Parallax set for 100 yards. In standard air conditions .
It has a fixed reticle. there are no side knobs for adjustment. ( it will look strange) The only adjustment is the rear diaopter.
You mount the scope and shoot at a large target. If it shoots 13 inches low and 2 inches right, that does not matter. You can actually test the rifle accuracy.
When you are done you can move to the intended scope and will have a baseline, and know if it does not perform.
Cheers, The Captain
Dear Sir - very interesting! I would buy one! Thanks...........
Thanks, Scott, for another great video. I thought i was in the basement until this video. Now i know im still on the 10th floor.😉
Elevator going down
I appreciate that your insights are born directly from your own experience. Question; would Swarowski's integrated rail mount scopes eliminate some of those variables, thusly making it more reliable?
Dear Sir - unknown; possibly. Thanks..............
My gripe has always been wall thickness. 30mm-34mm but how thick are they? Each mfg has different specs.
I do wish you would divulge which one piece mount was causing issues with scopes. I own a couple different one piece mounts and several different brands of good rings. I have a couple of MPA one piece, an ARC one piece and a Spurh. I'm just curious as to which one you said was the common denominator with scope issues.
Dear Sir - do not wish to damage any company - unless they are making junk. This stuff is high quality, but there is some unknown relationship that breaks things. Thanks.........
Based on one small group at one particular time under those exact conditions? Once piece quality mounts such as spur or mpa etc and they should always be lightly lapped to check and scopes normally fail do to bad mounting practices all though there are exceptions but with today's quality control on good scopes such as nightforce makes the odds really low. Steel rings contribute to excessive vibration transfer while aluminum helps to insulate some. You could try the same ammunition at a larger sample size and in different conditions and you will see what it really prints. With rifle set up exactly the same the shooters repeatability is more likely the difference. If your not staying in position (which should be square behind the rifle not humped over on the side) and maintaining points of contact with out upsetting the rifles alignment while cycling rounds will have a tremendous effect on consistency. Shoot a 10 or more round group the have another shooter do the same and then maybe you could say if it's the equipment or not. Tiny groups of raising top and looking things over then remounting rifle is not going to give good data on the rifle or ammunition and reading group shapes is very effective but only in different conditions. Shooting at say 7am and then comparing it to what was printed at 10am could change the shape of the group but even more than that each group shapes will tell you if you are on the edge of pressure or at the bottom of an accuracy node and any change in temp will greatly affect a tiny group. Real grouping is not 3-5 rounds because that is not giving you reality. Do ladders and such are only to get you into the ball park. It takes hundreds of rounds to establish a consistent charge weight, seating depth and the actual grouping ability of the rifle/ammunition and that's not counting the shooters marksmanship
Excellent - you pay for it....................
@quarterminutemagnums true accuracy and precision takes time and money otherwise all the small group with small round count videos on TH-cam would be reality.
I use a tuning fork on my scopes and check for the front and rear null points of the scope body. I set my rings in the nulls!
Dear Sir - I hope you are joking; not sure I could survive "one more thing" on my must do list ! ! !
@ I wish I was. I figured if we beat the barrels of our Buffalo rifles with a wooden mallet to find the null, I also use a similar method in finding issues with aircraft propellors. The ball end of a tuning fork is actually a sounding mechanism which will change the sound of a ringing tuning fork. They work exceptionally well “ringing out” defects. The null spot between the optics bell and erector I find to be about 1/3rd of the way between the objective and the erector. The least weird scope I own is a military contract MkIV Leupold with a 34 mm tube, the squirliest scope I own is an IOR Valdada 1X8-35 on a 35 mm tube. I loath removing the Valdada from the rifle when I have to redo the bedding, god only knows where it will shoot after it’s reinstalled. I also tried an ultrasound probe at work on an old Leupold MkIV M1 30 mm tube scope and the length of the forward tube gave some interesting results because, I assume, the weight of the glass is further out on the moment arm than the relationship between the objective and the erector. I’d like to see some very high speed video of high powered rounds being fired and the effects generated by the recoil through the scope. I’ll bet it’s horrifying!
@@NeroontheGoon Dear Sir - Wow! Wow! Please phone me...........................Thank you!
What is the rod guide, and plunger are you using? And what do think about bore snakes? Great video.
Dear Sir - go to a bench-rest match, observe, learn.
I have a bergara 7mm PRC. I get my best groups and speed with RL26. I have about 3-4 lbs left and it's virtually impossible to get. I only got this on a trade with someone. I also had decent results with Retumbo. I am, although, slightly disappointed with the performance of the 7MMPRC. Hornady hyped it to be what it's not. I quit shooting heavy bullets with it and went to Nosler AB160s. 3100 FPS shooting 0.3" groups. I'm shooting 175s out of my 28 Nosler but I'm sticking with the 160s in the 7MMPRC.
Dear Sir - really appreciate the information...............thank you.
Interesting discussion. I’m not in the same world as you, but I have rifles and scopes that I do and don’t trust due to rock solid consistency and inconsistency, respectively. I’ve had rifle accuracy go to heck somewhat suddenly and haven’t had time to figure out why, relegating rifles to the back of the safe.
Dear Sir - we have all been there..................Thanks.
Frustrating is right. Try to get 22LR to shoot well....Any experience with Hornady Match 223? Does it shoot one hole out of a custom rifle?
?????????????? Federal GM 69g SMK will................thanks.
The group shot with handloads using 67.5 gr is the same kind of group I get out of my savage 110 apex hunter using. Factory ammo Hornady 160 gr cx
That is a sweet looking rifle. What is the contour of that barrel if you don’t mind me asking. Looking for a stock for my 264 win mag. Thanks
Dear Sir - custom, 1.300" x 0.750", special order. Thanks.............
Can’t miss a video with knowledge your passing on! What grease are you using on the bolt?
Dear Sir - TW25b Mil-com. Thanks................
Would love to know what the deal is on the one peice mount. I've got an NX8 4x32 with a one peice mount (nightforce) 7:39 . I have an athlon etr that was shooting smaller groups with same load. And hadn't been able to get the same performance out of the NX8. Makes me want to test new 2 piece rings (I've got some vortex 34mm and 34mm warnes)
Dear Sir - if you do, please let me know your results. Definitely "something" here to learn. Thanks........
Vicki is amazing!!! She’s doing everything. Do you think you can get faster velocities with 175 eldx out of 7prc or 7mag? I heard you say you got close to 3100 with 180s out of a 7 mag, that’s crazy how did you achieve that?
Yea I’d like to know also how u achieved that
Custom everything, long barrels...................thanks.
If you had a 7 mag and 7 prc both 22” barrel shooting 175 grain eld x. Which one do you think would be faster?
Hornady Match gave me an SD of 29 and ES of 79. Seating depth is all over the place. A box of 20 gave me 4 different measurements off ogive. I guess you could always separate em 🙄. After seeing your groups with the match i guess it wasnt me after all last trip 😄. My last 4 groups consistently had 2 touch and the other went elsewhere
Vicky’s help is worth a million $👍🏻💪🏻
It's an interesting video. Did you try a different set of rings on the kahles 5-25 before shipping it. I use mostly ARC m-brace rings on my rifles. Their 1 piece is also good. I have badger, night force, seekins, talley, leupold, Warne, hawkins, eratac, and I prefer the ARC rings. I have not really seen differences in accuracy from a ring position on a scope unless the pic rail was low quality. I generally mount my rings as far apart as possible, depending on the action length. I have seen a few hawkins and talley allum rings crack but never the others.
I agree that the 10x Schmidt is solid. So is the henshold 10x. The premier scopes were top, and the Tangent Thetas seemed to be also. I have only sent three scopes in for repair. A 3-12 Schmidt, 3.5-15 NF, and a vx3 leupold. Only the Schmidt was truly broken in the erector. The others were not as damaged.
That 7 prc you built is a shooter, and it should be with that action and barrel. I like h1000 and n565 with a 180 in the prc.
What bix n andy trigger are you using? I like the Tac Sport x Pro for competition type shooting.. I have 2 bix Dakotas, and they are good for hunting. The trigger tech diamond is also nice, and a jewel is good too for more techy guys. Being a gunsmith, you probably tried them all.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Dear Sir - appreciated.......thanks.
Spuhr?
Had a similar issue. I think you should probably not blame the scope but just the rings.... especially if you have used them more than once on different scopes.
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i love this man..
Appreciated.......I think?
@@quarterminutemagnums you rock sir. I wish I had the space like you to build. I have trust issues.. build quality these days has taken ashit in most things…was wondering though, what paper you’re using for your targets.
@@mikeh5908 Get them printed at local print shop..........almost card stock. Thanks..............
Are you saying “Max off seat jam?” Is that just a fancy term for just in the lands, or in a gun with a magazine, would that be as long as the magazine would let me load?
MAX. Soft-Seat Jam. Hard into the lands....................thanks.
Hope there’s a follow up with the scope report. Nice shooting
As usual, another excellent video full of great lessons.
Trump 2024...
America First
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
M.A.G.A. - thanks.
How was your parallax from scope to scope ?
I’ve seen a lot of poor groups from poor parallax.
How do you like your grizzly lathe. Would you buy anything different like a south bend etc. Enjoy your vids. Thanks for publishing.
Dear Sir - it was the best I could afford at the time; still want high quality U.S.A. made machine, but VERY expensive. Buy my Grizzly and I will upgrade.......thanks.
Everything effects accuracy.....it's a matter of making things line up, sometimes we do, most times we don't.
Excellent.....................thanks.
Hello , really like your content.
Great job in what you do, just wondering did you ever build a rifle for European customer ??
Kind regards from Portugal 🇵🇹🇵🇹
God bless
Dear Sir - yes; must go through exporter. Thanks..................
You should try the beware EP5 gen 2 scope from Arken!! prepare to be very very surprised!
Dear Sir - thank you, will do some research.
@quarterminutemagnums
Those guys are amazing to work with, and you won't be unhappy with the quality! I have several and I'm ordering a cpl more after Thanksgiving.
Hmmmmmm….time to send my Leica amplus in…I have been struggling with consistency with that thing…. Zero at 200 but shoots 3” high at 300 without touching the dial, hmmmm…thank you for the video, learned something today
Good luck!
I’ve got a $279 Nikon from Walmart on my .223 carbine in good steel Talley rings that’s held zero since 2010 me bangin it all over hell. Bdc600 and hit a 28” flat screen with ball ammo off top my truck. What got me tryin LR
Dear Sir - if it works, it works. Thanks........
excellent presentation, Thank you
You are welcome!
Getting .26 .30 out of both my 7prc guns
I’ve mistakenly let go of quite a few rifles in the past because they supposedly didn’t shoot.. Thanks Leupold..
I had to send a new Leu back due to no elevation adjustment right out of the box. No clicks, no movement on the bore sighter grid. They fixed it. Had a well used Bush break on me twice. They fixed it.
@@jasonweishaupt1828 It happens a lot, even with expensive glass. Thanks...............
Awesome build. "Fun" lesson relearned. Sorry about your scope man. I had a 300 Win Mag built on a Weatherby Mark V action kill three scopes. Two Burris and a Zeiss. The only scope that held up to that rifle was my first Nightforce.
Dear Sir - once had a .308 Baer that broke every scope put on it ! Thanks.................
What lathe is in the background??
The best one I could afford, not the best one. Grizzly GO509G.
i have a bushnell clasic 400 scope my grandfather had on his remington model 742 30- 06 bought both in 1976. so recently i gave my son the gun and he put new scope on the gun. but recently 11/8/24 i bought a new xpr 270 and decided for hell of it i put it on this new winchester. i shot one in bullsye 2nd shot in same hole and 3rd shot half in first hole. all with a 48 year old scope . so i agree with proven scopes
Excellent...............thanks.
@quarterminutemagnums sorry weaver clasic 400 scope
Unless I missed something, you not only changed scopes but then went to factory ammo. I wonder if you had changed ammo before you changed the scope out would you have gotten a similar small group size? I'm not discounting any of what your saying, but you changed two things. In general, if the scope is proven, and assuming there are no defective tolerances in any of the mounting tolerances, then I'd say your handloads are not optimized for that gun, and by luck of the draw the factory ammo was in this case. JMO. Great accuracy on the handloads proves the gun is put together correctly and that the components are true and square.
You missed everything.................................thanks.
What if your parallax was off a little?
Dear Sir - I always address that before starting.....................Merry Christmas.
Where can I get the hat you wore when shooting. I think it nice
Dear Sir - send us an email. Quarter Minute Magnums......................thanks.
I personally think that was a parallax shift issue
Doubtful, but possible. I always dial out any observable parallax. Thanks............
what’s that front rest you’re using?
Dear Sir - very old Hart. But we have Sinclair/Brownell's also. Thanks..............
@@quarterminutemagnums what’s the URL?
Im not claiming to be an expert and I do believe scope rings, scope placement, torque, alignment, and several other variables have could have a correlation with accuracy. However, 3 shots, 4 shots, and even 5 shots is not nearly enough data to confirm or even suggest anything. A 5 shot group at .5 MOA will very easily shoot a .1 MOA 3 shot group (eventually). Simply not enough data. The only thing a 5 shot group does is tell if you if it has the possibility of being horrible. For example, if you shoot 5 shots and group size is 1.5, something is wrong. If you shoot 5 shots and it’s .3, this tells you nothing, other than it might not suck. Good information but purely suggestive. I have also used hundreds of cantilever style mounts and have never damaged a scope.
Hundreds ?
This one was better than excellent. Thanks! Where can I get a hat?
Glad you liked it! Thanks.............
Sorry.................email us for hat. Thanks.
Rings and scopes. That’s my life story. 🤣
Dear Sir - thanks............
I would like to see more fixed power scopes in the 35 to 40 power range
Dear Sir - totally agree! Thanks...............
You should clear up a few things. The case internal volume is different from brand to brand. Which will effect pressure and velocity. Bat actions hold pressure very well and the case may not tell the whole story until further investigation. Your using reloader 25 which may not be the best powder choice. 26 is snappy IMO and fast. Not my preferred liking by the recoil. I like other powders that the recoil is more a push. Ramshot grand will Easley get you over 3k. But look at the facts. Your shooting less powder for a fair speed. You have years of experience with the 7mag. So I'm confused why you would mention to never load more powder in a case then the recommended amount published. I went to hodgens and nosler and it shows the 7prc outperforming the 7mag. I understand physics, that the 7mag can hold more powder and should be able to beat the 7 prc.
Dear Sir - too much for this format; appreciate the information. Thanks.............
Times are changing.
The new PRCs and long ogives like 6.5CM have much tighter factory chambers and ammo manufacturing specs than previous guns. Handloading doesnt have enough of a margin to brag about anymore.
He proves this at 39:55 and 59:25 when factory rounds make 1 hole.
I've got an off the shelf Remington 700 7prc that will stack off the shelf rounds at 100yds. Why am I going to reload for it?
Either that or ELD-Match are that much better than Bergers.
Hes got a lot of knowledge, good video.
Dear Sir - Hornady A-tips MIGHT be equal to Bergers.......maybe. Thanks.
It would have been nice to see a few more groups with the customer's scope installed. I can't speak for you, but speaking for myself, one good group means I was lucky. Two good groups mean I was very lucky. Three good groups mean I might be on to something. Arriving at conclusions without repeatable results has had me chasing my tail more than I would care to admit.
Dear Sir - understood and agree, but I have an eight year old daughter to raise and cannot let the stress of this business kill me !
@@quarterminutemagnums Keep up the good work! Fun Videos, beautiful rifles and excellent shooting. I am hitting the subscribe button now.
My patriot in 7prc from 5he factory shoots .300 groups at 100
Excellent..................thanks.
it's parallax .... sometimes you have to set parallax before eyepiece sometimes you set your eyepiece before parallax ... I always slightly move my head to make sure the parallax is ok before I take the shot and surprise surprise sometimes the target is perfectly in focus but the parallax is not and when I move my head the target shifts, I then adjust the parallax to it does not move and the shot goes exactly where it's told to go but the target is slightly out of focus,, this is with an S3 , if I wear glasses
never exclude parallax ....
Dear Sir - always dial out parallax before we start. Thanks.................
I’d love to have you build me a rifle. I’m in the market. 7rem mag or PRC
Dear Sir - please just phone us........thanks.
Sounds like harmonics, possibly?
sub earned, my friend
Do a tall target test and box test on your scope
Dear Sir - already sent it to repair facility. Thanks................
I know ammo and time cost money for sure, but I would like to see you shoot that rifle again with more Hornady factory 180 eldm.......perhaps different lots if you have it. In my experience, the latest Hornady 7prc ammo is wildly inconsistent..........bullet diameters measuring from ideal to 6-7 tenths over.......and ES over 20rnds of 120fps+. That is ridiculous for ammo that says MATCH on the box.
Dear Sir - understood; but we simply cannot afford (time or money) to do exhaustive experiments. Thanks for your input.
always good to test things, but brother at 54 minutes i thought you were going to ND with your finger in the trigger messing with the gun and talking to the camera. No matter how experienced we get, always safety first!
The double grouping should have been the first red flag
Interesting
Showing of the unicorn powder I see.
Video of Vickie getting whipped around
This is a G-rated channel.............
Got it. Good content just don’t like that why he talks to Vicky.
It was the scope wasn't it
Dear Sir - almost certainly........................thanks.
@quarterminutemagnums I have a savage 30-06 that has point of impact shift down and left on the fourth shot every time. It has a laundry list of things I finally got straightened out but the poi shift is the pencil barrel. .667 group on a gun I have a measley 600 in. I'll take it!!
@@MrMagoo321that’s because ur barrel is hot by 4th shot!
Boy o boy you just fired up all the keyboard warriors 😂😂😂😂😂
Bergers are not hunting bullets
Dead animals don't lie.................thanks.
😂 they most definitely are
Everything is a hunting bullet
@@Dave-cf2ng If it punches a hole through the heart..............absolutely!
Thats a bold uneducated statement.
Bix n andy worse trigger I own. And has 2 misfires !
Dear Sir - personally I love Huber 2 stage, 16 ounces first stage, 16 ounces to break. Very nice.
@quarterminutemagnums never seen a gun with one in it, read alot that guy's swear on them.
@quarterminutemagnums scott this is off topic, seen a video while back with a chest rig holster, anyway I can get who makes them ? Thanks D
@@long-range-eliminator Hosking Holsters, Lewiston, Idaho. 208-816-9892. I wear mine with a HellCat 24/7/365. Thanks..........
I’m intrigued by your rifle building ability, but the way you treat Vicky on camera is a disgrace, she outta lay something up side of your ole head!
Will begin looking for new wife now..........thanks for your suggestion.
Bla bla bla
Get on with it
Drinking his own cool aid for too long
Maybe just cumulative recoil syndrome ?
get the hip waders on the $h!t is getting the deep now. unless you are a very sophisticated shooter.... you're so full of BS I don't think you even realize it when you are. it's true, the most successful gunsmiths are the ones that can BS the best.
Prefer chest waders................thanks.
@quarterminutemagnums yeah, you need them.