🔵Can you save a Mite infested Hive??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2020
- 94 mites in a Alcohol wash!!!!
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#Beekeeping #Beekeeper #Honeybee - บันเทิง
Here the original 94 mite count video and what the colony looked like last year. th-cam.com/video/mzBrVp50sTo/w-d-xo.html There is likely dozens of factor that allowed this colony to survive. I was shocked they made it as many don't when this mite/virus infested. Good bee husbandry would have the beekeeper knocking back the mites before they show 8 mites in an alcohol wash. Truly in regard to the varroa mite the old adage an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure applies.
Completely agree with all you said . All beekeepers who say “I know I have mites, so no need to test, ” should still make time to test and confirm their levels. Anything else is just winging it, not proper husbandry
We use Oxyalic acid here a lot in the fall and I think also I will be using the Oxyalic Acid and glycerin soaked towels as per Randy Oliver’s web pages! Amitraze is becoming hugely resistant in many areas, lots in the Uk this year! Others who haven’t noticed probably have not mite washed. Letting that hive get like that is one great move. You’ve shown the process and how things can be turned around.
I also agree that mites give the colony more stress than any other problem.,(with the associated virus’s)
Thanks for sharing.
I watch your videos and u are great to, but I wanted u to know I did that towel treatment I trusted that treatment and it did not work for me, it is very slow in working and my bees did not remorve it like they said they would either-- I used it in the fall and the towel was still in the hive in the spring when I did the first inspection. I did not lose any hives but in the aritical Randy said that as they are removing it that kills the mites but they did not remove it I wont use it again unless u do a video saying it worked for u I liked the idea I bought all these towels and the glycerin and it took so much time making the towels and weighing them it would be nice if u use it u would do a video on it have a great day
Frances Moore yes thanks for your reply. It’s interesting, some have said the same on other forums but it does work! If you get the type of towels wrong this can be the make or break of the treatment. We have to try alternative treatments. So good you did try it anyway! Well done you!! It’s far better to say it didn’t work for you than sitting down on a sofa moaning saying “that’s never gonna work”
Thanks for your message. I will be trying it next year in trials!
@@richardnoel3141 Please do a video on it that would be great have a wonderful weekend
I also tried it, but not towels but strips between frames, didnt check effects on varroa but i can tell it didnt bother the bees.
Thanks Richard
A lot of people like me would have treated the hive two or three times and assumed that we had done our job. Middle of winter they would have died and I would have chalked it up to winter loss. Retesting for mites was such a right thing to do. Great lesson Kamon.
Thanks Russell. Trust me I have totally been there. That is why i repeat this stuff so much. I hate losing bees unnecessarily.
Great video. Thanks.
Kamon why are those bees so dark i have never seen bees that black and the do seem much more active i did see your video on this hive man what a turn around love it can you identify the bee
I had a hive last year that I treating with Formic Pro which did not work, it washed a 30 plus mite load I did three OAV treatments a week for three weeks in October and that did the trick and the hive made it thru the winter with no problem. You can treat your hives with OAV with brood in them, but you have to treat 2 times a week for six weeks to get good results. This is labor intensive but it works it is using the same treatment format as Apivar. This treatment program is not for the commercial beekeeper but doable for the back yard beekeeper and the sideliner up to 50 hives.
When you said that people were saying you should never let your mites get to 94, my first thought was, “you didn’t, someone else did, since you acquired the hive as a swarm”. Just my opinion.
That series opened my eyes. I learned a lot last year and my bees did fantastic!! Thanks for the videos!!
Good job. I have been paying special attention to this hive and its progress through your videos. This has been a great series. I agree with each point you made in this video; Including queens can contract viruses and requeening is a wise decision in my view also. Keep up the good work! Thanks for the videos. Phillip Hall
I took a beekeeping course this summer and apparently OA isn't so prevalent up here yet but one of the methods they use to reduce mite loads is to stick in a frame of drone comb, all the mites will go to the brood, then as long as you get the comb out of there before they hatch, well, apparently the chickens LOVE them some good drone brood...
Kamon,
One of your finest assets is talking and beekeeping! Both at the same time.
Carroll
Saw this when it first came out last year. Been thinking about it. Wonder if in a heavily infested hive like that, if temp is excessive for use of formic acid, perhaps an option would be to pull out (and freeze) ALL the capped brood, shake all those bees into a new box with drawn comb plus frames of stores. Hit them with OAV or OA dribble one time, and add a frame of open brood. Basically get the benefit of a brood break, without the prolonged broodless interval.
Though you’d sacrifice a ton of soon-to-hatch bees, many of those will be virus-infested even if repeated OA knocks the mite count down. Perhaps better to wipe the slate clean, virus and mite-wise, and let the queen replace losses with truly healthy bees. Haven’t tried this, but plan to do so if the need arises. Wonder your thoughts.
Not a bad idea. New queen, new brood, mite elimination and likely lower the viruses. It likely would have a better chance of success than what I did. Hopefully the bees don't get to this point though
Always room for hope! I try to keep my mite levels low, but occasionally one will explode. Here in Portland there are many treatment free
“beekeepers” (bee-havers) who buy new bees every year or so and let them grow into mite bombs; I suspect that my hives sometimes rob these out. Thanks for replying. I’ll let you know if I have the “opportunity” to try it.
Glad to see the hive overcame the mites good job Kamon
Great example of correcting a hive! Thanks 😁🇺🇸🐝
I think you made a new World Record in mite counts....lol. BTW I love your channel. Great job....including the one with the causal giggle in the background.
Thanks Waldcraft!
I have Russian Primorksy Bees which are known to be very aggressive against mites (they chew them) and they are also dark and often solid black bees. Not all are solid black but many are and the rest are just darker. I wonder if you have a hybrid version (or had now that you intro'd a new queen hahah)
Well said Kamon - you can’t kill them fast or long enough. The mites are always there, my neighbor is raising tick resistant dogs and flea resistant cats. That’s right the thought of a mite free bee is about 99:9% improbable. I wish it would happen, logic tells me Nah.
Great example of Keeping bees and not just Having bees, thanks Kamon
Here's one for ya, Sure mite resistant bees are a cool idea or even possible now days with selective breeding, but as a beekeeper you need to make money to run your operation using the bees you have. As soon as a proven bee that can produce honey and fend off mites 100% without treatment comes into the market I'm sure everyone will be ordering them. We have to make due, and we have to take care of our bees.
Very informative. Side note: This is the first beekeeping video in which I've heard the word "egregious."
I have to use a big word every now in then to make up for saying things like fixin'! My Mother taught me better!
The best lessons come from making mistakes. 😜 The second best lessons are learned from other people's mistakes! 😁
Great video!! 👍
Talking and working bees at the same time! I like that. 😄
Thank you for this video...I was wondering about this hive!
Hey Kamon, why does everyone seem to recommend treating on a twenty-one day cycle when the brood is only capped for twelve days? To me it makes more sense to vaporize my bees every two or three days for thirteen days instead of once a week for three weeks.
Because the queen is laying everyday
This is my first year as a BeeKeeper. (Loving it!) I'm in the Pacific North West - lots of mites in our area, believer in OAV (vapor) - Oct round 2 treatment got my mites down to 27 from 67 on the first OAV treatment (I'll continue with OAV until no mites). Question, would you suggest I feed Ultra Bee / supplement / pollen + sugar patties Oct through Jan? In addition to straight sugar? I have 2 colonies (fortunately caught my 1st week July swarm) - both only have 9 full frames of bees + 6 to 7 frames of honey. Is their any harm in feeding pollen / Ultra bee supplement patties Oct through Jan? I'm a little concerned that both of my colonies might not have enough honey - feel it will be a close call via 1st week July swarm (waited for colony to create new queen - she seems to be laying solidly). Any suggestions? Thank you!
Have you heard of the heat treatment method of mite control? It is being used in Europe more and more. I'd be interested in your thoughts. Below are some links I found. From what I've read, this is my understanding. Varroa mites, their eggs and larva, die at 104 to 106 degrees Fahrenheit, while bees can tolerate much higher temperatures. Using a heating board and a thermo-coupler to monitor the heat generated, the hive is heated to 104 and kept there for a period of time - about 2.5 hours. This kills all the mites, their eggs AND larva in any capped brood. All bees in the hive at the time of treatment loose their adult mites. Foragers out doing their work, obviously, still have mites, but the vast majority of the mites die. No harm comes to the bees, any larva, capped brood, eggs or the queen (see the first link). A follow up treatment the following week will further reduce the mite population. One manufacture actually makes foundation for brood comb with a heating coil inside and the treatment is automatically run every week and can be hooked up to solar panels if necessary. (I'm sure this is really expensive)
Anyway, I'd be interested in your thoughts. IF this is a valid method of controlling mites, then my understanding is that this hive could have been brought back to health in a month or so - because the mites on the brood are killed, but not the brood. Some bee keeping clubs rent out the heating element.
americanbeejournal.com/thermal-treatments-for-varroa/
www.mcdowellhoneybees.org/thermal-treatment-program
And a video of the heating element in use: th-cam.com/video/2JI_0NEWO6g/w-d-xo.html
Agree you have to use OAV when they are broodless.
Kamon, great video. I went to all alcohol wash also. The sugar roll was not reliable and put me behind the 8th ball with my 2 hives. Thank goodness I followed your advice with Apiguard and 5 rounds of OA. Both hives made it through the winter. This year my one large honey producer had mite count of10. Used Apiguard 50 mg x 2 for 6 weeks. Following mite count was 7. Seems like the Apiguard didn't work well. Now I've put on Apivar and going to keep them in till Nov. Thinking of doing OA in addition.. what do you think? Should I do 5 rounds in 21 days with the Apivar strips in? Won't be able to do alcohol wash again... temps are dropping.. ( in Missouri)I will continue to use Apiguard in future but disappointed in results... also heard that OA may damage queens antenna... have you heard about that? Being told shouldn't use OA unless they are in a cluster to protect queen. I am thinking the damaged from mites may be more lethal then damaged queen antennas. Love your videos. Kudo to Laurels behind the scene work!
Thanks! I haven't seen any evidence that OAV effects the queen. Likely another falsehood trying to derail beekeepers and keep them at the beehaver level. Ideally when you treat you don't want the cluster too tight so that the OAV spreads around better. It sounds like the Apiguard did not work well. Slowed them down a tiny bit but not near enough. Isn't the recommended dose 50 grams applied twice in a 3 week period?
I can't wait to have the time to access and test these treatments better. Do any of them work 100% effective every time???? I doubt it.
Technically a round or 2 or 3 of OAV might be helpful but then again the Apivar SHOULD not need any help and I shouldn't be recommending you use both at the same time even though it works ......
@@kamonreynolds I haven't had problems with OAV killing queens either. I have often wondered if the reason some forms of formic which have been reported killing queens was really that; (Formic killed them)? The reason behind this thinking is could it be the strong odor of formic based treatments put off such a strong odor that bees may not recognize the scent of their own queen; balling and killing her themselves? Or it could be, the queen is already sick from virus of mites along with the effect of mites which may have already drained the queen of precious, much needed fat bodies, along with viruses, via attachment to the queen, leaving her weak and to die with many of the worker bees which may also be in the same condition. As we know, there are usually a small amount, sometimes a large amount, of worker bees, that do not survive the formic treatment. (Perhaps for the same reason?) If she is sick, we needed to replace her anyway? Thanks. Phillip Hall
I want to beekeep as a hobby, and I'd like to ask you (or anyone else that might know) what's the best place to get a bee box when you're starting out? Online? DIY? Supply shop? Another beekeeper? Help :/
The Amish in lawrenceburg TN have the best value for the price
Be careful with OAV in an apimaye hive. Just learned that the hard way. Big bummer 2 very nice hives absconded on me. My wooden hives were fine.
I have a queen that is producing a "black" offspring that have become very viscous. So far, they produce an incredible amount of work! But, I'm seriously thinking about ending her and the hive and starting over with a new queen. These bees will follow you a good 40 yards to sting you and they are very aggressive. I also found out by having to rush my miniature dachshund to the vet with an allergic reaction to the three bee stings they hit him with Monday and he was thirty yards away from the hive. It's strange. The other hive next to the aggressive hive doesn't do this. Any suggestions? The apiary I got her from said they were a "Minnesota" variety. Thanks for your videos.
@kamon - have you ever tried the powdered sugar method for mites? I haven’t, but some folks here in FL swear by it.
I have. It was all the rage 12-15 years ago. There is a reason it is not the rage anymore. Very weak treatment. One of the weakest I have tried.
Kamon Reynolds - Tennessee's Bees well you answered my question as to if I’m going to try it! Ha! Apivar strips have done just fine for me - so far. Central Florida. Thanks for the great info. I enjoy watching your journey.
It's the middle of October. I've been testing for mites all summer. I did a Formic Pro treatment in late July and an ApiGuard treatment in late September. I did another mite wash earlier this week and had so many mites I couldn't count them. I've thrown on another course of Formic Pro but I'm afraid they will crash. If I still have mites I'm going to hit them with O/A. Beyond that do you have any ideas?
Thanks for sharing brother.
glad to hear there is hope, I had a 12% mite ratio on one of my first hives. We are executing an aggressive apiguard attack on the mites to start with. Its july so we have some time to smash these little bastards. NSDQ!
Good deal Kamon, glad to see them doing well. Is October to late to use apivar strips here in WV?
You can use them this late.
@@kamonreynolds Thanks, im going to put them in th hives that didn't get it in August
Ive been treating my hive infested with mites for 4 months with formic acid flumentrine strips and bayvarol strips but mites are so tough how long in your experience is needed to treat a hive with mites?
The reason I watch your videos and live chats is because of your knowledge and you don't cave in to the "know it alls" that try to shame a new beek.
Is there really such a thing as treatment for mites too late or too late in the season? I treat, but I guess not treating in August puts me on the naughty list!
All this talk about mite treatments...from what can figure, it costs about $10 per hive for apivar strips...is that accurate? So how do you afford to treat 300 hives? I only use OA and my mite loads are well within reason and I've never used apivar.
That’s what I’d like to know. He gets money from TH-cam being a creator. A vaporizer that turns the Mite treatment to vapor is 200$ itself. I did see formic acid once and it killed my queen. My bees where fine until they got poisoned by the road crews sprayed weed killer. Then they died by the handfuls and that’s when the mites came.
@@RedMoonsEcho how he generates income is none of my business or concern...Im just curious how treating hundreds of colonies is affordable. I'm well aware of the value of an established colony. I'm also aware of the dead expense my apiary has been. Nothing is free and I'm not expecting to operate cost free. I've got 35-40 hives I'm caring for, had next to no spring honey flow, pulled 12 gallons off the goldenrod and managed to sell a few nucs. My balance sheet is covered in red. I've just got figure out how to do the Mick Jagger thing and paint it in black! So far oxalic acid has proven effective and cost is quite low. I don't want formic acid close to my bees.
@@mark-wn5ek Apivar in bulk is around 3-4 dollars a dose. Not cheap but Formic is higher and I wouldn't use it either. Probably the most effective cheapest way is doing brood breaks with OAV in my opinion. Mark, bee keeping is suppose to be a hobby so you shouldn't keep books. LOL Do fisherman or hunters keep books to see if their hobby is making them money? Them 2 lb fish they catch with their $20,000 boats are expensive meals. Especially when they haul the boat around with a $60,000 pickup.
Hi Mark. Live healthy hives make 300 dollars gross a year on average. Apivar while expensive is worth it as long as the mites are dead. Time is very precious and harder and harder to come by these days. OA takes way to much of our time. It is a valuable tool but it requires time that is simply not there. Great broodless treatment for us though!
Thanks for sharing. This year has had a steep learning curve for myself.
And when you think you got it figured out mother nature or the bees will do something to throw us off. LOL
Is the OA drip method effective on an every 3 day rotation?
Thanks !!
Have you ever tried the "Mite Check" or "BeeScanning" ap for your phone? On the physical front there are also the "sticky board" and the "power sugar roll (developed by the U of Minnesota, not Bama)"? I am sure there are others, but these seem to do the job without having to kill the bees.
Only 5% of mites can be seen on the backs of bees. They feed from between the belly plates of adult bees so visual examination is almost useless.
See the video "Varroa doesn't feed on hemolymph" by Dr Samuel Ramsey.
First year beek, 2 hives, first hive is strong then made a split a few months back from my first hive, and did a mite wash about 3 months ago on my first hive. 600 bees, 6 mites. Put apivar on both until fall got here. Have done 2 treatments of OA to both. Been checking the slide out bottom boards and the split has hardly any dead mites but my strong hive has more than i care to see. Hope im not to late on treatment for my queen has started laying winter bees. Im waiting a week between treatments, could I do them sooner?
You could do them 3 days apart no problem
What that one your queens?
Sure is!
Beauty!
Have you ever tried ProDFM or SuperDFM on your hives that are struggling with high loads of viruses, or weak from a high mite load? You had a video about using seaweed in you patties, have you ever tried Hive Alive?
I haven't tried those out. Skeptical at this point
Where do you get the tote of sugar syrup , i had to make my own and it was a gigantic pain in the a$$
90 to 30 is great success.
It is a big difference. 32 mites still gives me nightmares though. I like OAV.... truly do. I just want everyone to understand it isn't perfect and follow up and insure they did get the levels down properly
@@kamonreynolds I agree about 32 is still very high, but that 90 plus hive mite count was an outlier type number to start with. Great to see that you saved that hive. Requeen helped a lot. Great video how to save a hive. TLC goes a long way.
@@wayneshoneybees5439 This colony was allowed to get this high on mites and was closely monitored. Once it spiraled out of control we stepped in and did what we did. It was amazing to me that they could even be alive with that many mites.
What is your opinion of Mite-Away Strips that supposedly kill varroa under the capped brood?
How is the Johno Vaporizer working? I know it has only been a month but.
question , say i catch a swarm and when i bring it home would it hurt to give them a OAV treatment as like a preventive measure
Hey Rex. I recommend you wait till the queen has a little bit of larvae. (not capped yet) and then hit them. Sometimes an OAV treatment will cause a swarm or package that has no brood to abscond. Once they have the pheromones from a laying queen and her brood you can hit them and still get your high kill.
@@kamonreynolds thank you
Kamon, When you say 8 rounds of OAV treatment, is that single doses or is it 3 single doses at 5 days apart?
The first 5 rounds were 4 days apart. After that I waited a week to get a more accurate alcohol wash then counted 32. I hit them that day with another OAV round and installed apivar. Once the Apivar was pulled I hit them 2 more times a few days apart. Definitely! unorthodox but it worked!
Oh ok, I thought you had applied a total of 24 single does to them. Like you said, it's not as lethal as most think it is. OAV doesn't seem to hurt the bees much either. I believe the combination could help the most. Great job thanks for the info
hey bud how long does it take to combine hives useing the news paper?
justin mitchell, I’ve done it several times and it worked every time. I’ve always checked it after 7 days and they were combined every time in 7 days.
2 days maybe
Another great video....with covid-19... alcohol is hard to find. Is there any other product that can be a substitute for alcohol.
Thx.
I will do a video on this soon. Certain Dawn soap works well also
Try Dollar General, I’ve noticed they have a good supply of alcohol and hydrogen peroxide.
If you have a local craft distillery nearby, ask if you can have some "heads". That's the methanol they throw away because it is toxic.
Work great for mite washes and is free or cheap.
Thanks Kamon.
A couple of questions for you if you have time.
I have been monitoring my hives once a month with alcohol washes. Their numbers have been less than 1% then on the latest round they jumped up to about 7%.
Unfortunetly its late in the season I would have liked to have had a treatment on a few weeks ago.
My question is do you just treat your bees right after you pull your honey irreregardless of the mite count.
Also what are your thoughts on Formic acid?
Thanks
OAV will work better now with the brood levels decreased if you live in a northern area. Kamon's answer would depend on where you live and how much warm weather is ahead. Kamon is not a fan of Formic - hard on queens and brood. But I am sure it is a effective mite control so use it if you don't mind losing a queen once in a while.
JBee, look at Randy Oliver's research on ScientificBeeKeeping.com and read about the varroa life cycle. That will inform your plans.
Thank you.
To Clarify .
I treated immediatly with Formic Acid.
My question is does Kamon and other beekeepers just treat proactivly in late summer after honey supers are pulled.
Regardless of what the mite count is at that time.
Also I am curious why more folks don't use Formic acid. I asumed it was because of the mortality rate but was wondering if there was something else as well
@@jbeebuchanan2136 These days, ALL colonies have varroa. All beeks should be treating or knowledgeably keeping VSH bees. The wise beeks monitor mite levels for obvious reasons.
Formic acid is very temperature sensitive. I don't use it here in southern Mississippi due to the daily heat.
@@jbeebuchanan2136 Kamon and Ian both do random checks and checks on hives that don't seem right. Kamon has over 300 hives and it would take to long to check them all. Probably doing a random check after treatment is almost as important.
I bet the treatment free people are all over you! Great series.
Many LOVE ME...... Some of the OAV folks don't like me either. There are some TF beekeepers though that are my kind of people and can still be my friend and collaborate on bee stuff even if we have different views on 1-2 things. Life is complicated and seldom easy without a decent bit of effort and due diligence.
Do u really need to change the queen when the hive is infested with mites?
There are some beekeepers that replace their queens every year. A couple of things can happen, having a break in the brood can reduce mite counts reducing hive stress and in turn build up a stronger colony. Still have to do your mite counts and treatments. But replacing a queen can definitely benefit the hive.
Do you sell nukes or packages in twos or threes or small beekeepers. I can pick up at your location if needed.
Kamon you said you treated 5 times with OA Vap over 20 day period, is a OA Vap treatment every 4 days the minimum amount of days between treatments or do you think you could maybe push that to every 3rd day?
You could totally do every 3 days. I hope with our test yard to do stuff just like this.
Kamon Reynolds - Tennessee's Bees thank you for the reply, I’m going to add a few more treatments to a series I got started middle of September. Was shooting for a treatment every 7 days, but weather and available time caused the schedule to change. I have noticed an increase in mites dropping the first 2 days after a treatment where the interval between treatments was shortened?
Something tells me the treatments should be randomly spaced at shorter intervals.
On side note hours are picking back up at work and I am looking forward to donating towards your research yard😎
3kings3queens: watch the video "Varroa doesn't feed on hemolymph" by Dr Samuel Ramsey.
You will get a new view of the life cycle of varroa and how to fight it.
Brian Smith sounded familiar, I have watched so many videos and read so much it’s hard to keep it all straight. And then unfortunately you have to be able to make sense of it all. I will rewatch and see if I missed something, 🙏
I agree, monitoring is important