Nice comparison. P.S. just wanted to ask have you seen a marked difference between proper cine lenses and still photo lenses when it comes to image quality or is it just marketing gimmick?
I'd pick the 12K if I was going the BM way. I prefer my Panny GH5/S1 setup for documentary work, it's lightweight and offers excellent IQ for the price. The 12K seems like the ultimate "budget" cinema camera. I loved the original Ursa when it first came out, and this is the evolution from that. Plus, gotta have one camera to "wow" the clients and look extra "Pro" for ads, music videos, corporate and stuff
@@Mr_Kenneth Panasonic is fantastic, but I think I might BM/Red cameras are quicker to work with on a film set if it was rented. The Panasonic menu system needs time to go through. I have mine customised to my exact tastes, but if I hire a cinematographer, I need to spend almost an hour explaining the settings to them. Also fingers crossed for - 1. Electronic ND, 2. Internal RAW / Prores HQ codecs in Panny's next gen cameras
@@Darkstar-02 Thanks !! There is a difference for sure, aside from the actual body which is much nicer to use for focus pulling, the glass is usually better too ie better handling of flares and contrast as well as general overall quality.
I'm actually really tempted by the 12K. We'll probably be buying a second camera later this year and I assumed I'd go for a P6K or P6K Pro but the higher frame rates, image and really fast rolling shutter of the 12K have me really interested (not really interested in shooting 12K - probably 4/6/8K). This kind of performance has until now only really been available to filmmakers with much bigger budgets! I think Blackmagic has really pushed the industry forward a massive leap with this camera. I'd still keep my P4K for travel, discrete filming, gimbal and second cam. For me, this would be a huge leap forward in terms of production possibility and quality.
I totally agree, for the price and features the 12K is a game changer and to be able to have this kind of camera in consideration for filmmakers like us is just amazing!! I am so keen to see what Blackmagic will release next :). Thanks for watching man!!
@@OfTwoLands Ha ha! I pretty much watch all of your uploads °¬) Yes, obviously this was the test project for their new sensor design. Surely the next 6k/4k/pocket etc offerings use the same RGB sensor technology so all those fantastic benefits like frame rate options, full sensor lower res options, stunning colours, super-fast rolling shutter etc con be expected in their future lower end options.
I'm upgrading from my Pocket 4K to the Ursa Broadcast G2. It's essentially a Pocket 6K Pro in an Ursa body when having the EF mount attached. I mainly going to it because I like a camera that can easily be put on my shoulder as well as being able to shoot in 6K for vfx plates. The 12K is great, but the Broadcast G2 has dual native ISO and after shooting on the 4K for years, I find it a much needed feature when doing docs and events as well as indie narrative shoots when lighting isn't always great.
Thank you so much for making this video! As a small time amateur filmmaker I was tempted by the specs of the 12k camera. You convinced me that as a solo filmmaker the 6k pro will be a better fit for me.
I'm confused here. All the sources I can find say that the slowmo options are cropped to super 16. You mentioned slow motion modes in lower resolutions are not cropped?
Thank you !! It depends on the shoot but sometimes I use IS lenses, or slow motion for example. I made a dedicated video on shooting handheld so feel free to check it out :)
Thanks for looking at these cams from this perspective. Have seen a few in-dept reviews for both cams. But not really the practical point of both cams compared to each other. Have been shooting some stuff with the Pro 6k, and will be looking for a 12k soon :)
@@OfTwoLands I currently have the 18mm F4, 28mm f2.8, 35-70 f3.4, 50mm f1.4, and the 80-200mm f4. I shoot primarily with the pocket 6k/4K. Really enjoying the organic look I get out of these lenses. I have to say, the 28mm is probably my favorite!
As much as I like the idea of the Ursa 12K, I just can't get with that body. It's just going to be another grip in getting gimbals and stabilizers and whatnot. I really hope BM makes something more in the square style without the sloped back. But other than that, their cameras are so great. Beautiful images for years to come and great for all levels of experience.
It is a pretty large body for sure, the 6Ks are definitely better suited to gimbal work. I too would love to see BM release a square / modular cam :). Thanks for watching !!
Thanks for the video. Just asking, how do you manage with file sizes on bmpcc6k while doing documentary work? I have p6k and p4k but prefer 4k because of the file sizes. Plus 4k has less rolling shutter issue.
It's actually more than fine. On the 6K I shoot 4K 422 or even LT if needed. On the 6K pro I shoot in 6K RAW and then usually transcode to 4K 422 :). I am used to large file sizes for video work so I am too concerned about it and have a lot of ssds with me.
@@OfTwoLands thanks for your reply! 🙏 I've also used 422 primarily on 6k, which seems to have best IQ/filesize-ratio. Just curious, why you convert from braw to 422? 🤔 Just for the option to use braw-files if needed?
Thanks!! I think it depends on your workflow and needs. The Ursa is better suited for bigger production, has slow mo and has a S35 sensor with Vlock battery and SDI. The Pyxis is smaller but full frame and more portable with smaller batteries.
I'm a student and I'm planning to buy an cinematic camera with a budget of $2000. I'm stuck on whether to choose 4K or 6K, can you give me some advice?
Does it make more sense to get a 6k with monitor instead of the 6k pro? I was looking at getting the 6k pro mainly for the tilt screen and internal NDs, but with all the quality issues I'm almost wonder if the original 6k would be better
That's a tricky one, I think if you already have a monitor you like then the regular 6K is amazing and you can save a bit of cash for other accessories or media. For me the screen and NDs are essential features that make the Pro worth it. Saying that, I was very happy (and still am) using my regular 6k with a monitor. Just means theres is more cables and takes longer to setup. Also not sure what you mean by quality issues ? Hope this helps. Feel free to watch my 6K vs 6K Pro video :)
Get the PRO. The quality issues have been ironed out for the post part. The 6k PRO is by far my most favorite camera. internal NDs and high back light screen is 100% worth it.
I've always found Blackmagic's Ursa series interesting and this 12k is no exception. I'd say that I'd rather rent this than a RED (ok guys, you can start insulting me :-)). I wanted to ask you, did you use vintage lenses during your tests? If so, have you encountered excessive vignetting? Thank you
Haha I would to :). I did use my 28mm Contax Zeiss very briefly and didn't notice any vignetting since they cover full frame and this cam is S35. I plan to hopefully get my hands on the 12K again this year so I'll try to shoot with the Contax more.
As far as cameras are concerned, I'm moving toward the WEF model (owning nothing and liking it), renting cameras when special features are required. Hyrbid cameras I already own are capable for most corporate & promotional work and likely will be until they wear out and can no longer be repaired.
@@OfTwoLands I finally have it. question for you...at 2:50 I see that color pattern on mine from the sun flare, do you know if the rawlite filter will correct that?
To be honest I don't really mind not having FF, I quite like S35. I am sure blackmagic will release a FF camera soon though since most brands do these days.
S35 is full frame for cinema and has been for 100 years. The new Arri camera is also S35. The desire for "full frame" comes mainly from those who started their careers with the DSLR and believe in the cropped sensor myth. Well corrected lenses that cover FF are larger and heavier. Zoom lenses are slower and with a smaller range. Even The Revenant only used the Alexa65 for 13% of the shoot, instead using the XT and the M (both S35) for the majority of the shoot. Why - better lens choices on S35. Cameras are smaller. DOF is easier to control on equivalent focal lengths. To make a good large format sensor is not easy. RED and Arri are both stitching their existing sensors. Most other cameras have terrible rolling shutter. It makes far more sense to concentrate on making the very best S35 sensor than to put out camera with a compromised FF sensor.
Please please help me please i want to knows all pictures without do photos editing how it look please for camera Blackmagic 6k poket pro please hope all pictures take without do anything without do photo editing please please help i want to see it please help only photo without editing please i want to see what pictures colour is taken with these cameras.
So well shot and graded! Thank you for this amazing comparison. How about an HDR version of this video? I’d be happy to assist. Just drop me a line... :-)
@@PawelAchtel BRAW is a true RAW format, it's just that there is some processing done in-camera. You can adjust WB, ISO and many other parameters in post without any issue.
@@dutchgroundmedia Pretty funny. It is either processed or it is raw, you can't have both. It is processed in a way that it is partially demosaiced and compressed. And, just because you don't have any issues with WB, ISO and many other parameters, doesn't mean that it is raw or even equivalent to raw formats.
@@PawelAchtel Whatever makes you happy mate 👍🏼. It’s a RAW format. Like it or not. Feel free to move on and complain on other TH-cam videos. Have a nice day.
Very strange to not even mention the battery life. The 6K & 6K pro have ABYSMAL battery life. Sure the NPF's are light so you can pack plenty in a bag, but I was shocked to see you not even using the battery grip. The real comparison should be 6K Pro with battery grip vs 12K otherwise it's not even remotely a contest.
Haha I highly doubt that the contest rest on the battery solution. I do talk about batteries mentioning that they run on different systems. And I do have the battery grip as well :). I always compare cameras with them being out of a box or at least with the bare minimum otherwise if I start diving into different kits and rigs the video will be 2h long. With the 6K you can run NPF, V locks, the grip and with the 12K you have V mount, Gold mount both of which can run 50w or 100 or 200w. Simply too many options to discuss them all. Thanks for watching!
@@OfTwoLands "Doesn't rest on the battery solution?" The fact that it NEEDS a battery solution is the end of the contest. The 6K and 6K pro out of the box get such horrendous battery life out of the box that it should come with a warning label on the packaging, especially considering you have to power that enormous screen from the same power source. I thought someone who shoots in colder climates like yourself would be more critical of this, I took the original 6K on a shoot to Texas in the winter and I was getting TEN MINUTES use time per battery. I own both the 6K Pro and the 4.6K G2, I'm not saying the 6K is a bad camera, it's just laughably poor in battery performance.
Here is my comparison between the BMPCC6K Pro and the Ursa Mini Pro 12K.
Which one would you pick and why?
Cheers,
Flo
Nice comparison.
P.S. just wanted to ask have you seen a marked difference between proper cine lenses and still photo lenses when it comes to image quality or is it just marketing gimmick?
I'd pick the 12K if I was going the BM way. I prefer my Panny GH5/S1 setup for documentary work, it's lightweight and offers excellent IQ for the price. The 12K seems like the ultimate "budget" cinema camera. I loved the original Ursa when it first came out, and this is the evolution from that. Plus, gotta have one camera to "wow" the clients and look extra "Pro" for ads, music videos, corporate and stuff
@@vaidehiarts I love everything Panasonic.
@@Mr_Kenneth Panasonic is fantastic, but I think I might BM/Red cameras are quicker to work with on a film set if it was rented. The Panasonic menu system needs time to go through. I have mine customised to my exact tastes, but if I hire a cinematographer, I need to spend almost an hour explaining the settings to them. Also fingers crossed for - 1. Electronic ND, 2. Internal RAW / Prores HQ codecs in Panny's next gen cameras
@@Darkstar-02 Thanks !! There is a difference for sure, aside from the actual body which is much nicer to use for focus pulling, the glass is usually better too ie better handling of flares and contrast as well as general overall quality.
I'm actually really tempted by the 12K. We'll probably be buying a second camera later this year and I assumed I'd go for a P6K or P6K Pro but the higher frame rates, image and really fast rolling shutter of the 12K have me really interested (not really interested in shooting 12K - probably 4/6/8K). This kind of performance has until now only really been available to filmmakers with much bigger budgets! I think Blackmagic has really pushed the industry forward a massive leap with this camera. I'd still keep my P4K for travel, discrete filming, gimbal and second cam. For me, this would be a huge leap forward in terms of production possibility and quality.
I totally agree, for the price and features the 12K is a game changer and to be able to have this kind of camera in consideration for filmmakers like us is just amazing!!
I am so keen to see what Blackmagic will release next :).
Thanks for watching man!!
@@OfTwoLands Ha ha! I pretty much watch all of your uploads °¬)
Yes, obviously this was the test project for their new sensor design. Surely the next 6k/4k/pocket etc offerings use the same RGB sensor technology so all those fantastic benefits like frame rate options, full sensor lower res options, stunning colours, super-fast rolling shutter etc con be expected in their future lower end options.
The EXACT reason I’ve been trying to avoid looking into the 12k, my wallet isn’t ready
Love the videos! Do you ever run sound on your 6K pro? I never see you using a microphone
Thank you!! I do for documentary and commercial work, the rest I use the internal mics and SFX :)
I'm upgrading from my Pocket 4K to the Ursa Broadcast G2. It's essentially a Pocket 6K Pro in an Ursa body when having the EF mount attached. I mainly going to it because I like a camera that can easily be put on my shoulder as well as being able to shoot in 6K for vfx plates. The 12K is great, but the Broadcast G2 has dual native ISO and after shooting on the 4K for years, I find it a much needed feature when doing docs and events as well as indie narrative shoots when lighting isn't always great.
Which camera has the best image to you ?
Thank you so much for making this video! As a small time amateur filmmaker I was tempted by the specs of the 12k camera. You convinced me that as a solo filmmaker the 6k pro will be a better fit for me.
Thanks a lot for watching !! I love my Pro for solo work :)
is it easy to nail the focus on 6k pro just with the screen? .. .what features you use for getting sharp focus?
It is not as easy as it is with the 12K but you can definitely nail focus with the screen on the Pro and I use Peaking :).
I'm confused here. All the sources I can find say that the slowmo options are cropped to super 16. You mentioned slow motion modes in lower resolutions are not cropped?
You can 12K 60 and 8K 120 using the full sensor :)
4K S16 240 fps is cropped.
Great video and amazing footage. How do you avoid the micro jitters when handholding the 6K?
Thank you !! It depends on the shoot but sometimes I use IS lenses, or slow motion for example. I made a dedicated video on shooting handheld so feel free to check it out :)
@@OfTwoLands Great, will do. Thank you.
Thanks Brother. Another great video. Didn’t know the URSA was that good! Loving my 6k Pro, mostly now with my new cine Samyang 35mm T1,5!
Thanks a lot man !! Both amazing cams for sure.
Hard to beat a 35mm T1.5, happy shooting :)
@@OfTwoLands indeed 😄👍
Thanks for looking at these cams from this perspective. Have seen a few in-dept reviews for both cams. But not really the practical point of both cams compared to each other. Have been shooting some stuff with the Pro 6k, and will be looking for a 12k soon :)
Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video :) !!
When you shoot handheld with your 6K, which lens do you use to get stable footage? Au fait, je suis francais, je vis aux US depuis 1990.
Bonjour :) !!
For handheld footage with the 6K I love the 16-35 F4 IS, super light and the IS is pretty good!
@@OfTwoLands Yes, I did find the info on one of your other videos. Thanks!
Love the comparison! Well done 👏
Thanks so much man !!
@@OfTwoLands of course! Ps: you inspired me to get Contax Zeiss glass!
@@EllizonTorres Oh nice! Which ones did you get ? :)
@@OfTwoLands I currently have the 18mm F4, 28mm f2.8, 35-70 f3.4, 50mm f1.4, and the 80-200mm f4. I shoot primarily with the pocket 6k/4K. Really enjoying the organic look I get out of these lenses. I have to say, the 28mm is probably my favorite!
As much as I like the idea of the Ursa 12K, I just can't get with that body. It's just going to be another grip in getting gimbals and stabilizers and whatnot. I really hope BM makes something more in the square style without the sloped back. But other than that, their cameras are so great. Beautiful images for years to come and great for all levels of experience.
It is a pretty large body for sure, the 6Ks are definitely better suited to gimbal work. I too would love to see BM release a square / modular cam :). Thanks for watching !!
Can you make one more a full video on 6k pro vs 12k bmpcc. I m really want to buy one but with good image quality. If its same qiality or different.
Thanks for the video. Just asking, how do you manage with file sizes on bmpcc6k while doing documentary work? I have p6k and p4k but prefer 4k because of the file sizes. Plus 4k has less rolling shutter issue.
It's actually more than fine. On the 6K I shoot 4K 422 or even LT if needed. On the 6K pro I shoot in 6K RAW and then usually transcode to 4K 422 :). I am used to large file sizes for video work so I am too concerned about it and have a lot of ssds with me.
@@OfTwoLands thanks for your reply! 🙏 I've also used 422 primarily on 6k, which seems to have best IQ/filesize-ratio. Just curious, why you convert from braw to 422? 🤔 Just for the option to use braw-files if needed?
Nice comparison as always! can you help decide between a used ursa 12k wich is about 3300 dollars, or a pyxis 6K for the same price? thanks
Thanks!! I think it depends on your workflow and needs. The Ursa is better suited for bigger production, has slow mo and has a S35 sensor with Vlock battery and SDI. The Pyxis is smaller but full frame and more portable with smaller batteries.
Thank you bro, you should be paid by blacklmagic...
I'm a student and I'm planning to buy an cinematic camera with a budget of $2000. I'm stuck on whether to choose 4K or 6K, can you give me some advice?
I have gimbal, 5 inch monitor already.
For $2000 I would get the 4K with some glass :)
@@OfTwoLands Thx your information
What EF lens do you use to get such crisp image at crop frame?
Canon L series zoom lenses most of the time, as well as some cinema primes and vintage ones.
I always link all my gear in the description :)
definitely want to try out the 12k someday! how are the files when editing the 12 footage?
Surprisingly easy, of course it depends on the computer. I talk a bit more about this in my review :)
It's BRAW, so not that bad
Lens used with 6k pro? Stabilized lens ?
Yes, all gear in the description :)
@@OfTwoLands 16-35?
Does it make more sense to get a 6k with monitor instead of the 6k pro? I was looking at getting the 6k pro mainly for the tilt screen and internal NDs, but with all the quality issues I'm almost wonder if the original 6k would be better
That's a tricky one, I think if you already have a monitor you like then the regular 6K is amazing and you can save a bit of cash for other accessories or media. For me the screen and NDs are essential features that make the Pro worth it. Saying that, I was very happy (and still am) using my regular 6k with a monitor. Just means theres is more cables and takes longer to setup. Also not sure what you mean by quality issues ?
Hope this helps. Feel free to watch my 6K vs 6K Pro video :)
Get the PRO. The quality issues have been ironed out for the post part. The 6k PRO is by far my most favorite camera. internal NDs and high back light screen is 100% worth it.
How does 8k raw work on a 12 sensor?
I love both of them.
Me too ☺️
I've always found Blackmagic's Ursa series interesting and this 12k is no exception. I'd say that I'd rather rent this than a RED (ok guys, you can start insulting me :-)).
I wanted to ask you, did you use vintage lenses during your tests? If so, have you encountered excessive vignetting?
Thank you
Haha I would to :).
I did use my 28mm Contax Zeiss very briefly and didn't notice any vignetting since they cover full frame and this cam is S35.
I plan to hopefully get my hands on the 12K again this year so I'll try to shoot with the Contax more.
Great!
You should also add timestamps in your videos!
Thanks !! I used to but sometimes it stuffs up the retention as people go back and forth in the video. I'll keep that in mind though :)
As far as cameras are concerned, I'm moving toward the WEF model (owning nothing and liking it), renting cameras when special features are required. Hyrbid cameras I already own are capable for most corporate & promotional work and likely will be until they wear out and can no longer be repaired.
I can understand that approach and glad it works for you :)
nice review! this may very well be my A & B setup!
Thank you!! That would be a pretty powerful combo 👍
@@OfTwoLands I finally have it. question for you...at 2:50 I see that color pattern on mine from the sun flare, do you know if the rawlite filter will correct that?
Lovely comparison!
Thank you !!
As always, I thoroughly enjoy videos！
Thanks so much :) !!
Why Blackmagic doesn’t you FF sensor? Why many professional cameras haven’t FF? What do you think?
To be honest I don't really mind not having FF, I quite like S35. I am sure blackmagic will release a FF camera soon though since most brands do these days.
@@OfTwoLands why you prefer S35 more then FF? except for lens size, of course
S35 is full frame for cinema and has been for 100 years. The new Arri camera is also S35.
The desire for "full frame" comes mainly from those who started their careers with the DSLR and believe in the cropped sensor myth.
Well corrected lenses that cover FF are larger and heavier. Zoom lenses are slower and with a smaller range.
Even The Revenant only used the Alexa65 for 13% of the shoot, instead using the XT and the M (both S35) for the majority of the shoot. Why - better lens choices on S35. Cameras are smaller. DOF is easier to control on equivalent focal lengths.
To make a good large format sensor is not easy. RED and Arri are both stitching their existing sensors. Most other cameras have terrible rolling shutter. It makes far more sense to concentrate on making the very best S35 sensor than to put out camera with a compromised FF sensor.
which ssd is best for bmpcc 6k
I prefer to use Cfast cards but both the Wise SSD and Samsung T5 are good options :).
great review thanks!
Thanks !!
Please please help me please i want to knows all pictures without do photos editing how it look please for camera Blackmagic 6k poket pro please hope all pictures take without do anything without do photo editing please please help i want to see it please help only photo without editing please i want to see what pictures colour is taken with these cameras.
So well shot and graded! Thank you for this amazing comparison. How about an HDR version of this video? I’d be happy to assist. Just drop me a line... :-)
Thank you for the nice feedback!
For now I don't need HDR but thanks for the offer :)
Yo your videos really make me not want to get a RED Komodo i love Blackmagic lol
Haha, we are spoiled these days as filmmakers :) !!
@@OfTwoLands lol yes we are will you be attending NAB in Vegas this year?
Why do you always use this lens !?
24-70 Canon
Is it better than Sigma 18-35 ?
You mean the 16-35 or 24-105 ?
I use canon Zoom because they are weather sealed, light and have IS :)
"Based in the french alps" or "best in the french alps", Florent?
You decide.
Hahaha, definitely Based :) !!
@@OfTwoLands You are just too humble, bro.
Get both
Haha that'd be nice!
You can only shoot raw on the 12k? That's a deal breaker. Wow
Yes, bit annoying but BRAW is quite amazing :).
Bruh imagine the file sizes on the 12k😭 6K is already terrible.
It's actually a lot better than I thought it would be. It depends on the computer of course.
Lol, I’ve been shooting in CDNG for 2 years now… the 12k file sizes excite me
ursa 12k cannot shoot raw as you incorrectly stated.
Haha, the Ursa can ONLY shoot raw..
@@OfTwoLands Since when? BRAW is not a raw format, in case you are confused.
@@PawelAchtel BRAW is a true RAW format, it's just that there is some processing done in-camera. You can adjust WB, ISO and many other parameters in post without any issue.
@@dutchgroundmedia Pretty funny. It is either processed or it is raw, you can't have both. It is processed in a way that it is partially demosaiced and compressed. And, just because you don't have any issues with WB, ISO and many other parameters, doesn't mean that it is raw or even equivalent to raw formats.
@@PawelAchtel Whatever makes you happy mate 👍🏼. It’s a RAW format. Like it or not. Feel free to move on and complain on other TH-cam videos. Have a nice day.
Ipad video editing
Make this topic video ❤️
Unfortunately I do not edit on my iPad :(
Wapooo
Very strange to not even mention the battery life. The 6K & 6K pro have ABYSMAL battery life. Sure the NPF's are light so you can pack plenty in a bag, but I was shocked to see you not even using the battery grip. The real comparison should be 6K Pro with battery grip vs 12K otherwise it's not even remotely a contest.
Haha I highly doubt that the contest rest on the battery solution.
I do talk about batteries mentioning that they run on different systems. And I do have the battery grip as well :).
I always compare cameras with them being out of a box or at least with the bare minimum otherwise if I start diving into different kits and rigs the video will be 2h long.
With the 6K you can run NPF, V locks, the grip and with the 12K you have V mount, Gold mount both of which can run 50w or 100 or 200w. Simply too many options to discuss them all. Thanks for watching!
@@OfTwoLands "Doesn't rest on the battery solution?" The fact that it NEEDS a battery solution is the end of the contest. The 6K and 6K pro out of the box get such horrendous battery life out of the box that it should come with a warning label on the packaging, especially considering you have to power that enormous screen from the same power source. I thought someone who shoots in colder climates like yourself would be more critical of this, I took the original 6K on a shoot to Texas in the winter and I was getting TEN MINUTES use time per battery. I own both the 6K Pro and the 4.6K G2, I'm not saying the 6K is a bad camera, it's just laughably poor in battery performance.