This Vehicle Needs Better Brakes!! Mini Rock Crawler Build - Part 17
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- Today we need to fix the brakes on this mini rock crawler build. For this project I'm using the Fox 2.0 Air shocks. These are air only shocks and can be made hard or soft just by adding more nitrogen pressure. The fox air shocks are super easy to adjust and really light weight, perfect for these smaller projects but they can also work well in jeeps and other light rock crawlers. King air shocks are also a great option if your build is like mine, but I feel like the Fox airs have a better factory valving setup. The Fox air shocks should go together really well with the mini rock bouncer as that's really what they were designed for.
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Rock bouncers and other extreme off road vehicles sometimes use a diff mounted disc on the pinion shaft. Might be a better solution for your rock bouncer. Just a thought, hope it helps. God bless and stay well.
Would that type of brake work with an open differential? There's ways differing amounts of pressure on each tire when rock crawling. It would have to be a locker type rear end for a pinion mount brake to work.
I love inboard disc, F1 style and saves unsprung weight, the GTV6 had them and a rear gearbox for that sweet weight distribution
@@tinkerne-round4079 you can also do this on the Axle Shafts So these Are bassically the same as that one on the Hubs, Alfo Romeo GTV the old ones had these on the back.... it sonly a Nightmare when the drifshafts broke xD then u aint got no brakes... but on a Rock Crawler this shouldnt be that big of a problem...
@@spyder7758 LOL i wrote my comment and saw urs u mentiones the alfa aswell
If the brake disk is on the differential input it wouldn't matter if you lost the driveshaft. I do like the idea of inboard brakes. My jaguar xjs has them. They aren't easy to do maintenance on. I had to remove the entire rear end assembly to replace them.
air shocks
FoX air shocks can be filled with 10 to
500 psi of nitrogen. To calculate the
spring force, multiply the psi by 1.2 for
2” air shocks and 2.1 for 2.5” air shocks.
(example - 200 psi x 1.2 = 240 Pounds
of spring force). The nitrogen pressure
is used to set the ride height, and the
oil volume can be increased to ramp up
the spring curve to avoid bottoming the
shock. oil is added in 10cc increments
(with the shock deflated and the valve
core removed) up to a maximum of 30cc
for 10” travel and shorter, and up to 50cc
for longer shocks.
Good info 👍
He should take a shock off, and drain the oil into a measuring cup so he can measure how much he has in it. Then, remove about 10-20% of the oil, reassemble, re-add nitrogen to get to ride height, repeat on the other side so the oil level is matching, and then test it. Repeat as necessary until you get the shock behavior you need. I don't think you "have" to go by 10cc increments as long as you're balanced and can put it back together with the same amount of oil in both shocks on the axle.
Be careful. If your pad doesn't engage fully on the rotor it will wear everywhere except one spot that eventually touches the same mating high spot on the other pad.
All of a sudden, no brakes! Learned that the hard way.
Just spin the rotors on the lathe and use a green sanding disk on each side. You’ll get a non directional scratch in them. It will remove the scale and help bed the pads.
I would think it might be a good idea to heat treat the rotors. Increases the hardness, less likely to warp, probably better performance? As well rotors are resurfaced on brake lathes without grinding. Use sand paper on lathe after finish cut, swirling it for slight non directional finish. The mill scale could be the noise you hear? Great videos and workmanship!!
The noise is just the break pads sliding against the new rotors. It will go away after a while and is harmless. Awesome video my friend, thank you and be safe :)
Great cost effective way of fixing the brakes ! I’m always having problems with brakes. Maybe just some thinner oil in those shocks Would work , I know when I raced mx bikes you could get different oils depending on how much dampening you want
Here Comes my Favorite Fabricator, Good Work Brother
Lower viscosity oil in the rear shocks than the front shocks. Easy to calculate a base viscosity if you know the weight balance of your rig with you in it. Fine tune from there. Inboard mounted brakes will also reduce unsprung weight, which will improve the suspension system on rougher terrain.
Mad max .i will be shocked if it doesnt fall apart on the trail but that just makes it more fun. Yeeyaa. Impressive.
Little late but was told to pre heat the cast aluminum before welding and clean. Great builds sir.
You can remove mill scale off those rotors relatively easily. Just take some sandpaper and slip it between the pads and the disk. Should clean up nicely. I use a cordless drill and an old belt to run the wheel faster than hand speed to clean it up.
Soak them overnight in vinager. Scale gone.
Your unbelievable..how the hell do you sleep at night.. the mind must just swirl round and round..another great vid..
You could buy 4 bathroom scales, hopefully something that will read up to 350 lbs or more. Then you could get an idea of where the weight is distributed.
For the shocks i would just call them up and ask, it'll probably take 10-20 minutes and then you'll know what there is to know about tuning them
For your next project I’d love to see you build a road legal car/truck/buggy that you can use as a daily driver.
Several people make seasonal buggies but a daily driver would be awesome. It’d have to be 4x4 of course 😎
That banjo bolt may fail with heavy braking.... Good video though. Thanks Chris! 👍😁👍😁
This is one build aspect where i think you should reconsider the whole approach. Ditch the wheel mounted brakes, make strong axles, and mount the brakes inboard. Considering this is a small crawler, you should have no problems running it on two larger disks.
Yea this one is a mess.
Looking forward to your uploads showing us all how it is done. How long until your uploads?
to remove mill scale ... chuck the disk on the inside ..Use jaw pads so as to not mar the finish in the bore ... then with the disk revolving slowly hold a disk grinder with a sandpaper flap wheel against the moving surface of the brake disk and grind off the scale starting with 80 grit and moving to finer stuff when most of the scale is cleaned up
I would suggest grinding off the unused section of the brake pads to prevent their causing issues in the future, nice "hack" though, I believe it'll work fine!
As an aside, I believe you could have removed some of the hub material to bring the calliper closer to the hub. It wouldn't have been pretty, but it would have worked, and given your new brake pads more "active surface"
As for that friction noise; that'll fade as the new pads break in ;)
💯 if not he's gonna learn the hard way.
Good point the untouched parts could eventually contact each other preventing contact to the disk, depending on pad and rotor thickness
Be sure to checkout our KiDz Buggy Build!!
It would be very cool to go out and ride together sometime! It would be so fun to compare and talk details about Our builds so we both gain knowledge!🙌🏻🤘🏼
Excellent job 👏 ☮️
For the mill scale removal just soak them in vinegar overnight and it comes off with a wire brush. Love watching you make everything from scratch. You need a CNC plasma table. Reach out to Langmuir Systems
You should have just gotten larger rims with beadlocks along with larger tire. Looks fun!
Grinding off that banjo bolt may come back to bite you cause it may have weakened it enough to point of failure
Looking forward to your uploads showing us all how it is done. How long until your uploads?
Sketchy as f...
nice build 👌
A Fly cutter would help with surfacing your brake disks
Increasing the Nitrogen pressure is the same as getting stronger springs.
Bigger holes in the pistons will allow quicker shock travel. Similar to lighter shock oil.
Not enough shock oil is like falling through air, then hitting the water.
But don't listen to me, cause my shock experience is with radio control 1/10th scale trucks from 30 years ago.
Try adding brakes to the pinions. So, 6 brake disks total.
Beleza 👍👍👍😎
Looks like it's time to make a tool post grinder for the lathe. It would be cheap, fast, and should be fine for making brake discs. Just cover the ways really well.
Adjusting the shocks. Check out various rock crawler forums online. Those guys are more than happy to help you tune those shocks. They may be on regular rock crawlers, but the concept is exactly the same. Good luck.
Next time, you should look into Honda Pioneer 500 brake pistons/rotors. They stop a 1000 lb side by side with only 3 rotors/pistons. It might make it easier for you since you wont have to do a lot of fab work.
Hi Chris
Cliff Notes : Generalised and massively simplified suspension tuning basics.
Lower viscosity oil may be a quicker less complicated solution to lowering the dampening effect of your shocks before you start to get into shim stack configuration .
Oil height (volume) will affect the spring curve of the shocks . Higher , more oil will make the shocks feel harder sooner in their stroke . Less would bottom out sooner .
Having said this the oil viscosity works in conjunction with the valving (shim stacks) in the compression and rebound circuits .
Varying the oil viscosity will affect both compression and rebound at the same time.
So if you find you get a good compression stroke but a bad rebound stroke it may be time to look at adjusting the valving in the rebound stroke (Obviously if the compression is bad look at adjusting that)
I think you'll rapidly discover the depth of the suspension tuning rabbit hole you've stumbled into and the witchcraft required to get out . LOL
Good luck .
Fattrucker
A lighter oil will reduce the dampening. Also fox are generally pretty good to deal with (id think especially so if you mention it's for a high rated TH-cam channel) give them a call and they give you a better idea or might even tune them for you
Automatic inflation and deflation system would be kinda cool too see how you come up with a way to make it work
You could use some limiting straps so you could run higher psi in the shocks and keep your ride height where you want it.
You should look into improving you circuit for your welder. you will find it's not difficult to fix. I'm sure you could handle it. I'm willing to bet that lubricant on the front brakes was about 80% of your problem. since the front brakes on most vehicles do most of the braking. that would have saved you a lot of work on those rear brakes. and possibly the front brakes. you are ready going to notice a huge improvement in the overall performance of the vehicle. by reducing that air pressure on the tires. that header wrap is asbestos. and you should be careful handling that wrap. by wearing cloves and a mask asbestos is hazardous.
if the braking lining is glued to the brake pads plates. you could grind off the excess lining because it's notgetting used anyway. you will just have to remember to do that. whenever you change the pads I
in the future.
I thought header wrap is made of something else now. Asbestos has been phased out of pretty much everything these days.
Would be a great investment for him.
It always blows my mind to see someone with so much amazing information with zero videos on their channel. If I had zero uploads, i personally could not give advice to someone who has hundreds of uploads on a given topic like fabrication. What a strange time we live in
@@eriklarson9137 Oh yeah, because everyone who has expertise in a particular subject is going to post about it. This is a really stupid argument.
Asbestos wrap hasn’t been used in years. Modern day header wraps are made from vermiculite coated fiberglass. Itchy sure but not deadly
Quick tip for removing mill scale. 80 grit on a DA sander.
Another trick is use a grinder with flap wheel with the disc spinning in the lathe
You may already know this, but a great way to remove mill scale is one of those stripping discs that look kind of like a sponge. Put one on a 4.5" grinder and it'll take that scale right off.
Thing is insane
the milscale is what made the brakes noisy probably doesn't help the braking performance any either, and I would think the valves need opened up some to allow more fluid to pass by easier
Still need to adjust the seating passion for better vision.
I am sure if the brake modification didn’t work you got the skills and tools to make copies of knuckles. Also I hope pads don’t touch each other at exposed areas after they wear down putting pressure on pads instead of rotors.
I haven't used those exact shocks but the air shocks I have used have 2 air chambers.
You'd use the balance of the 2 pressures to control height. The "top" chamber prevents the shocks from maxing out when jumping as well. I run 110psi in the main chamber and 190psi in the ramp up chamber. I had to look up the terms. Those numbers mean nothing to you I know but maybe it'll help you get an idea of what's going on
Ok, may be a silly thing to say but would it have been easier to fab new carriers for the calipers to fit the existing hub mounts?
Don't be surprised when a rock gets wedged between the caliper and wheel and bust your wheel!
With your skills I have no doubt you could make a low profile banjo bolt.
It would take him like 3 days, and it wouldn’t be to spec, in fact he’d probably make a point of doing everything in the most unsafe manner.
A solution of White Vinegar and Baking Soda removes mill scale quite well, just have to leave soak for a day or two.
This may be a silly question but is there a reason why you didn’t surface the brake rotors on the lathe was the material already flat enough?
I don't know much about air shocks, so what I'd probably do is I'd just fit coils to the suspension
you see, your sway bars are working as a spring element (a torsion bar) allowing the body to stay level, which is not ideal. You should be able to detach the sway bar to get more travel and not have leveling problems. Coil springs would be good enough for that, and then you wouldn't have to mess with the air shocks
I'm not going to pretend to know you very well because I don't. But something tells me you'll be changing out those breaks again. Love the content brother keep it coming
Maybe you could face down the caliper inlet and shorten the banjo thread if it bottoms out to give a little more space for the hex head. Or you could just weld it up and build up material to drill and tap a new inlet which is angled 90° from the original one.
If you have Clearance issues maybe look into putting the brakes on the axles
Have you thought about getting a generator, for your welder? You could weld without tripping a breaker.
Tig on a generator in a pinch maybe. I wouldn't recommend it
Or just fixing the house wiring?
The 10 people who think that's a good idea don't know about welding. Generators and welders don't like each other
@@la_plata3588 unless it's a generator/welder. Eh?
Good ii boss 👍👍😊😍
Look at the SAE Baja forums and websites and you'll find a plethora of information on the suspension tuning and more!
He doesn't seem to like math
But if he did literally any research, he would actually build functional vehicles that have proper roll cages which won’t decapitate its occupant going over a whoop
I would be really careful with the rear brakes. At some point it will just be squeezing the pads together and not the rotors enough to do any good
I saw that too, but there's an easy solution; grind off the unused section of the brake pads
@@GaisaSanktejo yes you can do but I don't think he's given it any thought
Underrated comment don’t think he thought about this future issue.
Should have done the calipers inboard next to the diff like a HMMWV.
If you really want to revalve the shocks there are stacks of shims inside, on top of the piston that control how much oil flows through it as the shaft moves up and down either add to shims or remove shims to make it stiffer or loser. Do not remove oil. It needs as much as it can get. Nitrogen is usually @ 125psi minimum
+1, ive been saying this since the beginning when he took oil out of the shocks. bad move. they need to be set up properly
Great work man...I'm a big fan....can you please describe how you added a reverse gear to the Trike build? Thanks!!!
Look up ORI, they are similar type shocks.
You may need to send them back to Fox or a A Fox authorized dealer that does shock ervicing for a revalve. I use a place called hygear suspension for my race shocks.
Soak steel in vinager to get rid of mill scale.
About shock tuning... Copied this from the FOX website. Maybe you already seen this...
FOX air shocks can be filled with 10 to
500 psi of nitrogen. To calculate the
spring force, multiply the psi by 1.2 for
2” air shocks and 2.1 for 2.5” air shocks.
(Example - 200 psi x 1.2 = 240 Pounds
of spring force). The nitrogen pressure
is used to set the ride height, and the
oil volume can be increased to ramp up
the spring curve to avoid bottoming the
shock. Oil is added in 10cc increments
(with the shock deflated and the valve
core removed) up to a maximum of 30cc
for 10” travel and shorter, and up to 50cc
for longer shocks.
If I remember you have to heat up any cast parts
Got to heat up the cast first then weld
Dude you need a trepanning tool, for your lathe for cutting the centers out of the disks.
You can run a thinner oil and drill the valves bigger a few thow
Try contacting bleeping Jeep they might be able to help you. They have full size rock crawlers. Cheers and hope it helps.
From the thumbnail, looks like EMPI disc brake kit with I think either 5x205 bolt pattern
Those are going to warp like crazy you need to heat treat them and face them on the lathe after
Make bigger discs for the rear 👀👀👀
changing the shock oil weight will change both rebound and compression damping.. don't run less oil volume than they're designed to have as you'll get horrible cavitation and erratic damping.
You should use coil overs instead of the gas shocks it will eliminate your need for the sway bar and will return to a level position at rest
Cheap easy way to remove mill scale is to put them in a white vinegar bath over night
Try putting more weight in the back end might stop it tipping forward when going down steep rock???
Just weld a nut to the banjo bolt when you want to take the line off
Can run aluminum wire in your mig welder just hook up your 100% argon
I'm guessing your rock crawler weighs around 1500 lbs from my experience. Love the build btw.
Using air to push the pistons out will center the caliper over the disk. If that was am issue.
You should have done double bevels to get a better weld on that thickness of aluminum
Need to get the mail scale off of it so the pads brake and properly
😁🤘
Lower the air pressure of your tires bet you see a huge difference in the ride
If you replace the nitrogen with helium,you'll get a lighter shock response.......Kidding of course.There are discs in the shocks with varying size holes to allow the oil to pass through.Less discs and it passes easier.
I would upgrade brake calipers to nissin ones instead they will give you much less problems and you won't get sticky pistons as easy and they are more powerful too, I done this to my sport bike and it made a massive difference over the tokkita calipers
Mill scale on steel requires a bucket your part will fit in and enough white vinegar to cover it. Depending on ambient temp, could take an hour or a day. Hotter is better.
As for the circuit breaker and tripping it via welding... As running electrical service to handle the draw to the shed may require substantial cost and possibly permits (don't know, don't live where you do)... Why not get a generator...? As it seems you are not welding 24/7 the cost of the generator and fuel may be an acceptable alternative...
Should just upgrade to a set of larger rims
You for sure need a cnc plasma cutter. Not saying the brakes looks bad in the slightest, thing stops on a dime
Chris use cardboard to mock up your brake brackets. You have room to move the caliper in further.
Ya needs more air. Ya more air makes it sit higher. Air shocks wrk one way. Ppl think they can just pick there pressure to there liking. No they have a specific range and can’t wrk properly unless meet. You’ve not reached minimum pressure requirement of the shocks you have. Regardless of your vehicles current weight
rad
manly energy
battery regenerative electric coil-magnet brakes for gasoline vehicles
brushless brakes, no friction contact, just magnetic-coil-electric, with axial clutch
keep your battery charged, secondary charging method
permanent magnets with coils, with a electric current resistor heat sink, if you dont use the generated current
Vinegar and water will take the mill scale off
For the rea shocks I would make multiple mounting pis on the cage and Raise the top shock mounting position so you have twice as much shock shaft showing, since right now most of your shock travel is down travel only which causes you to bottom out easily.
Btw; The shocks are assembled with a set amount of oil,and it's required.I hope you measured what you removed so you can refill them.
Nope, this guy is a loose cannon. All he does is build origami roll cages with next to zero structure. I don’t think there’s a vehicle in his fleet that could protect him in a legit roll-over, and anyone who suggests he build a traditional, rated, and approved by various motorsport authority cage gets ignored..
You've got get ahold of a fox dealer they will tune them
If you want to get rid of mill scale just put it in a vinegar bath for 24 hours, you can just wipe it off after
You definitely should have removed the mill scale. It’s easy just grab some muriatic acid (concrete cleaner) at most hardware stores and soak them for a while (outdoors) and it’ll wipe off. If that’s not available vinegar will also work but takes longer.
there is such thing as break math. if you are swapping single-piston calipers for duel pistons, I question the total square inch of pistons v master cylinder square, caliper times two divided by break pedal leverage. max pressure about 5000 psi. doesn't matter the compensation but the math has to be wright.
He doesn't seem to like math
I think that if you had used tire spacers, you would not have had to grind down on the calipers.
Mud's going to build up between the banjo bolt and a rim and cause you to stop almost would have been better off just trying to find a different hub assembly rotor and brake assembly all in one that would fit the control arm and axle think Cavalier with some modifications of course
I had a buggy with really tight brake caliper clearance. Small stones got trapped between the wheel and caliper and punched holes in the wheels.