Started hunting in my teens. I finally got into bow hunting. Then had shoulder surgery and my bow tech suggested a crossbow until I build my strength back. Love my crossbow it keeps hunting.
After learning about Dr Ashby’s work, I started playing with my bolts and settled on a 650gr bolt, 30%FOC with a 2.5” schwacker that averages 275fps out of my crossbow. Been using that setup for 8 years now and it is a freaking freight train. I’ve hit every bone (and every combination of bones) you can hit in the vital area, from 7-60 yards and I have gotten a pass through every single time.
If you ditch the mechanical and put on just about any fixed head, then you will be able to easily shoot through light brush, too, without any deflection.
Glad to hear you touching on the efficiency topic. I see it in the data table you put up at about the 15 minute mark, and I have also seen it in Troy's tables in his vertical bow videos. The lightest arrows are creating lower kinetic energy vs the heavier arrows, even though velocity squared should dominate the calculated KE values if efficiency wasn't changing. When you get to those 160 KE values, you're near the optimum capability of the crossbow/arrow system - it's probably relatively quiet, less "rattle" on the scope and other hardware, etc. The guy saying any crossbow will readily blow through any deer hasn't hunted much. I've seen a couple shot with crossbows and mechanicals that didn't get full penetration. The momentum theory along with a sturdy head is fully valid, as you've always stated, when heavy bone is in the flight path. I've been pretty pleased with Grim Reapers on my bow and crossbow overall, but you've convinced me to look hard at fixed blade heavy heads again.
I've been running a 125 2" two blade Gr , but decided to bump up to the 150 grain this year. I got the 2 blade and some 3 blades. They're pretty beefy, so I'm excited to see what they do. My crossbow was 430 fps, but im sure these heads will slow it down a bit, but it should still be plenty. I don't shoot over 30-35 yards or so.
Great video. I am happy I switched my setup a bit to going heavy. I was using medium weight for a bit at 525 grains but I find 600-610 grains is where I want the crossbow to be. The efficiency is just nice. I find though there is a huge difference between recurves and compounds now crossbow doesn’t matter they are a different beast.
It appears to me that by increasing bolt weight you are increasing the amount of energy that can be efficiently transferred from the bow to the bolt and take advantage of the huge energy dump that happens on each shot. I also believe a heavy bolt REDUCES stress on the bow limbs in terms of unused energy having to dissipate back through the bow limbs. My total arrow weight is about 610 with my setup and ( full disclosure) I am shooting a Sevr 150 mechanical with this set up. Love the content of this video guys. Appreciate you!
With my barnet 370 if I use heavier bolt setups(usually 100g insert and 150g head) the thwack of the strings hitting the stops is quieter than the stock bolt with 100 grain tips.
Great video Now replying to the corvette comment, I think it is more like swapping out the high rpm small block to a 455 big block- torque - big torque 👍🏻
I have been doing this for the last few years , 20 inch , 475 gr with a Magnus 150 stinger and 2024 using single bevel Magnus and 4 inch straight vein , running just under 400 fps . It’s a bolt wrecker not many blocks stop it.. Had great performance on game , solid pass throughs I have moved away from mechanicals after a bad situation with one 4-5 years ago.
If you ever venture into the traditional world of archery and shooting bows that at 160fps is pretty fast.... You'd have a totally different outlook on the heavy arrow debate. It's funny the dudes making vids and chiming in on the subject all shoot compounds that are so fast that a lighter arrow may work just fine, and have never really experienced a crazy slow bow " 130-160fps and how the heavy, slow arrow reins supreme without question.
I have a few comments/questions for the questions asked. The first is about the Corvette. Which is easier and faster to stop, a Corvette travelling at 70mph or an 18 wheeler at 55mph? The second is about penetration. Would you want to shoot an elk at 300yds, with a faster, let's say 100gr .243 travelling at about 3100fps or a 30-06 with a little slower and heavier 168gr bullet at 2900fps? The last comment is about the deer not going very far after being shot with a razor sharp fixed blade. From what I remember reading a long time ago, when the deer was hit with a razor sharp broadhead, it was thought that it basically felt like being poked with a needle and the deer didn't actually know they were shot. Now, if you hit one with a less than razor sharp and even larger broadhead, the deer will definitely know they have been hit and run farther if they can, depending on what the broadhead hits. Edit: the bullet velocities mentioned above, are at the barrel, just to make that clear.
For me this is also a finacial issue. We harvested 5 deer with a single 200gr single bevel using a mission crossbow, just needed a quick touch up to the edge after each kill. The broadhead was finally retired after hitting gravel passing through the 5th deer. I have never had a reusable mechanical. Although, my mechanical experience is limited to grim reaper and rage heads.
This was good to listen to as always, Matt. I’ve listened to Troy a few times and I am subscribed to his channel as well but of course I know you better and I could see the engineer wheels turning in your head the whole time you were discussing lol The question that was asked can be answered without charts or all of the work that you put in. Not saying that it was no use because that was valuable information for sure. I’ve got an X1 and I have several other X-bows & the one thing that’s consistent shooting a lightweight and a heavyweight into my 10 X crossbow broadhead target. Single bevel heads will always penetrate the deepest. But if you compare a lightweight set up and a heavyweight set up, you will notice the difference in depth of penetration and it’s usually considerable. With mechanical broadheads, it’s exactly the same. While they don’t penetrate as deep as the single bevel heads. This is just a very simple real world test of velocity verses torque I think that until they figure a way to harness the wasted energy 350-400ft/s will be the optimum speed range. Guys are having issues being accurate with the 515 but they don’t realize that the increase in speed increases any mistakes they make. Keep up the great work guys
@@draggindeeroutdoors you know, I like a big wide mechanical around 3 inches. My favorite was the NAP FOC 170, but there are times you have to pass on shots because of angles. If you ever need to take those hard cornering shots and you know you’re going to go through a scapula or any bone that’s where the single bevel really shines. Bone just isn’t going to stop it from splitting. I’m even playing with a Crimson Talon CROC 200 grain. A very nice inch and a half wide single bevel withgreat flight. Gonna order some Magnus SB today. if I ever get carried away, just tell me to shut up lol
My 2 cents worth after a nearly 50 year span of hunting with archery equipment, every thing from long bow to crossbow. I have pretty much just hunted whitetail deer which is by far the most hunted animal by the hunters today, but deffinatly not all. So my experiences come with a relatively "soft" animal with the exception of the older large bucks. With the smaller " engine type" archery equipment moderately heavy arrows (good forward of center) with a razor Sharpe 2 blade is a big time advantage. When it comes to the modern speeds of cross bows I have had extremely good performance from the swhackers on a moderate weighted bolt/arrow with very short trails compared to the heavy 2 blades setups for the vertical bows. I have had them blow through ribcage then heart then humorous bone severing it in half and still bury in the ground. Now that said these animals are not very tuff to kill. If I were hunting anything tuffer there is no dought I would up my game on the on what would be flying out of my crossbow.
Nice video. I try to watch Troy every now and then but I feel like he is missing a few things. The broad head as well as the fletching can not create lift. They produce drag. Another issue I take is Troy him self has said he a producer not a consumer of content then discredits other archers by stating no one else discusses different topics. I think he makes valid points I think you two did an amazing job with the data. I’m not discrediting the conversation I would like to see as much emphasis on the tune and set of the kinetic energy machine as well as shooting fundamentals. I shoot 73 pounds 31 inch draw I push a 443gr arrow set up with a 50gr insert and 100gr iron will single bevel. I live in south Mississippi and that combo works great for pigs and works great for elk and bear in Idaho. This is the first video I’ve seen on your channel I’m now following I think it was nicely done. I just don’t chase the weight or speed numbers I find what I can shoot the best and hold out for ethical shots are what make the biggest difference. Do you know if Troy took up fmjj offer on the bow tuning video?
I had very good results with a crossbow and mechanicals for years until I had heartbreak. I lost the biggest buck of my life on a 1/4 away shot that put a 3" slice in the hide and deflected. I had it on camera the next night perfectly fine. My 7 yr old had a failure to open at 22 yards, which was probably fatal. We tracked it until the swamp was too deep to keep going... After I switched to Siruis Phoenix arrows and Tuffhead Evo 2.0 200 grain heads. I shot 3 deer that year. The first was 1/4 away and broke the opposite humerus bone in half and center punched the heart and got a pass through. The next deer I shot very hard 1/4 to me and broke the front humerus bone into 6 splinters, double lung, and a pass through. The last one was broadside and buried the arrow 15" in the ground severed the main artery off the heart. All with the same hand stropped and razor sharp broadhead on a high FOC knock tuned arrow.
Looking at the charts here - it appears that a 500 grain bolt might be a 'sweet spot' as far as grains/fps/energy goes. Does this make sense or am I just out in left field? Anyways, like that German on laugh-in used to say - very interesting. Good video, guys.
With 400ish fps crossbows & Swhacker 2" cut broadheads, tw 400 grains/20" bolt. Fast, flat and accurate always a 2" exit many deer down & quick for me, deer do not seem that hard to shoot thru, IMHO. -W. Liggett
Yes sir, love your channel, KI crossbows best bang for your buck, I have a Ripper 415 & a Ripper 425 (added a speed ring scope), if it's not broke don't fix it, deer do not seem to be hard to shoot through with modern 400fps xbows IMHO. -W. Liggett
The bevels shoot Farkin great, in mine.. as well as nap slingblades, literally triple digit on those, im in a nuisance program, 40 yards is my limit though.
Side note. The k.i fletchings didn't hold up well with the target block. I refletched with the "quick fletch" (shrink wrap fit) and they are great. Durable and easy to do.
So one thing to point out on what Troy saw with a 150 gr head and 200 gr head could be what I have seen with rifles. At closer ranges sub 100 yards. I have seen heavier bullets with the same zero shot the same or higher than lighter faster bullets. The only thing we have been able to figure out is due to lower velocity of the heavier projectile and the more mass of the heavier projectile produces more recoil throw in the more time in the barrel due to the slower velocity gives the heavier projectile a trajectory higher then the lighter projectile by the time it leave the barrel. The only way we assumed this is between a buddy of mine and I shooting the same rifle and the same light and same heavy bullet. Let’s just say he is more stocky then I am, we actually saw the heavier bullets hitting higher than the lighter bullets with me than with him with the only variable being about 80# is body mass.
This is off topic sort of but does anyone know their crossbow setup weight? Total weight that you are carrying and holding full set up? Scope, quiver, bolts, everything. I’m at 12 pounds 4 ounces. I have a Burris Oracle X mounted on a Centerpoint Amped 425 and carrying 3 bolts. Just curious where others are at. I weighed the whole set up with a digital Rapala fishing scale.
Honestly not sure on my setups. None of them are heavy to the point it causes any concerns, so I’ve never weighed them. If yours is comfortable and works, keep running it!
My rotator cuff acted up again. 90 years old in two months. New Wrath 430 came with 400 gr bolts, 100gr field points. Right away 4 shots adjust scope then 4 shots from 20 to 50 yards arrows hit black 1/2 bulls eye. It was hard for me to believe the accuracy right out of the box. The whole thing without the quiver, plus camera is about 9 lbs. Shot a 4 blade Muzzy in the same hole as the field point The scope is not speed adjust, so I will shoot it as is on this hunt season. Later plan to upgrade scope to speed adjust, then go way FOC.
I am at work so I don't have time to watch the entire video, so I apologize if you answered this. I get the increased mass x decreased speed = increased momentum. But that is at the xbow, correct? What is the change at the target, say 40 yds? Won't the heavier arrow bleed of greater amounts of speed (and momentum) as it travels further down range. For example, (forgetting aerodynamics) if I throw a 10 lb bowling ball 414 fps from my hand, it still wont travel as far as the arrow. Or for arrows, does it take more than 40-60 yds to make a difference?
I remember flinging 31.5" 2413s from an 83lb Jennings. I thought I needed all of that to kill a whitetail. I'm not sure any of those deer ever slowed an arrow down. Now, I'm using an xbow and my shoulder thanks me.
I’m a heavy arrow or bolt guy with a cut on contact I like the magnus black hornet (the foamer) as Troy calls them lol but I was just wondering about the hybrid mechanicals I’ve seen a couple that have pretty much a cut on contact up front and smaller mechanical blades in the back do they work any better than the standard mechanicals or about the same?
I used the muzzy hybrid with tbe 2 fixed blade and 2 flip out mechanicals..I have had great luck with them on the crossbow but they are only good for 1 deer.The mechanical blades bend or chip up..I still use them though they fly great and the deer drop fast..Good luck
My suspicion is your 200 grain broad head has a higher B.C. I tested the 750 grain point, according to lab radar, it lost 3 fps over 39 yards. It still dropped like a rock unfortunately.
Sorry I’m not sure what you mean. The arrows that come with the X1 are the same HYPR arrows that come with many KI bows. You don’t have to use those, you just need to shoot the right nock and arrow specs required for the bow.
Its time for the archery world to step up and make arrows like bullets are made. Bullets are made based on optimizing ballistics. The speed at distance with the velocity at impact is where it's at. Why can't we get on board with this? We know the numbers that matter to calculate the optimal ballistics based on the specific speed of the bow why not work on broadhead weight/arrow weight/spine strength combinations that hit the sweet spot for common bow/crossbow speeds? If I were in this industry I would collaborate with a bow or crossbow manufacturer, an arrow manufacturer, and a broadhead manufacturer and make the perfect ballistic combo for deer, elk, and pigs. This would be a no-brainer for hunters to get away from buying simply for FPS and into the sweet spot for fps, arrow spine strength/weight, and broadhead weight. Lets go. I would love to get involved as an investor in this. Its way past due.
The reason this can’t work is because every bow is different every crossbow is different and every archer is different. Yet a 30-06 is a 30-06. A 30-30 is a 30-30 a .50 cal is a .50 cal. It doesn’t matter if a long armed mountain man is using it or a short framed 100 lb woman using it. Archery is not the same. Ideally it’s up to the archer to do that with their setups hahahaha.
In all reality you gotta play around and see what your bow/arrow like best. Every arrow shaft is different, each bow model has a different power curve in how it delivers energy. If you want a very ballpark answer, my swat x1 is similar in size to your r26 and has always done well with total arrow weights right around 500 grains.
Hey the guys. I was wondering can I get some help with my raven arrows? No one will touch them and I want to run a650 grain set-up. Needs inserts installed. And a good broadhead. Thank you
If you increase the bolt, wouldn't that mess up the scope that is set for zero at 20, then your 30-100 would be dead on, but if you go up in wt. Your 30-100 would hit low
Shooting 720 grains with 350 tuffheads 25:02 at about 280 fps at 20 yards deer have no chance. Bolts generally almost to fletchings in hard clay with small gravel after pass through on deer
@@draggindeeroutdoors I’ll drill out a golf ball all day long at 40 yards. And a softball at 50. You need to practice more. Be less concerned with weight, or what head you use, and more with form, your sight axis, and the accuracy of your range finder at those distances. 60 yards is where it becomes more specific as to what the issue actually is…
Maybe to soon in the video, irony, Fairy got me shooting single bevels, out of my crossbow... i kill critters with everything so to each his own. My compound days may be drawing to an end health wise but i never knock anybody for taking game with whatever, to each his own, except for the bathroom situation our country is in
My crossbow is an old parker challenger shorting at 310fps my bow is a bit faster at 370fps I'm experimenting with bigger foc I'm no longer using mechanicals I've had not much success wit them
HAHAHA! That's his nickname on his family property in Texas that he manages. He takes care of everything, and to his family its like it all magically came together.
You already proved the stock bolts these xbows come with are not getting all the efficiency as a heavier bolt with the calculation of kinetic energy at different bolt weights. Free 10 ft/lbs of KE for using the right weight? Yes please.
Dude, you think you’re short KE at 100 foot pounds my trad bow generates 34 works fine. Your trajectory is crap and TOF is increased so what you can pick up the arrow 30 yards past the deer instead of 20??? Lol
I don't know how you could make a decision on a top tier crossbow without having a scorpyd in the discussion. Fit, finish, balance, trigger pull, accuracy, reliability... A scorpyd is really hard to beat. The speed with relatively heavy arrows comes from a long reverse limb powerstroke with relatively low lb limbs when compared to other bows in the same speed range. Im much more comfortable with cocked 150-160 lb limbs than a 230+ lb limbs in close quarters. Not saying there arent other good bows out there but by leaving scorpyd out of consideration you're not doing yourself any favors. Just my two cents. Happiness comes with heavy arrows!
Everyone want to use rage as an example of a mechanical broadhead blades shearing off. Why doesn't anyone talk about swhacker? Ive put them through shoulder blades, front leg bones, put s 3/4" deep cut through the bottom of a spine. Never broke a blade. Not a cut on contact broadhead. They open inside.....pristine clean sharp blades... In the vitals. You're past the ribs by the time they open. Sound good? Thats a swhacker. I do sharpen the blades which by the way are easily removed and replaced after sharpening.
I am not a crossbow guy in fact I kind of hate them but if you're going to shoot a crossbow you do not need to shoot 300 plus screens up front you do not need to knock tune and all that other malarkey they're accurate out of the box Aim, Shoot, kill...
One word on sharp blades inside....SWHACKER... SHARPENED SWHACKER. THEY ARE BETTER THAN A FIXED BECAUSE THE CUTTING BLADE DOESN'T CUT THROUGH BONE OR HAIR. They don't go far.
Ranch fairy does not know shit from shine about crossbows have any clue why he is even talking on this matter hell if up to him crossbow will still be at 300’fps
Nice video. I try to watch Troy every now and then but I feel like he is missing a few things. The broad head as well as the fletching can not create lift. They produce drag. Another issue I take is Troy him self has said he a producer not a consumer of content then discredits other archers by stating no one else discusses different topics. I think he makes valid points I think you two did an amazing job with the data. I’m not discrediting the conversation I would like to see as much emphasis on the tune and set of the kinetic energy machine as well as shooting fundamentals. I shoot 73 pounds 31 inch draw I push a 443gr arrow set up with a 50gr insert and 100gr iron will single bevel. I live in south Mississippi and that combo works great for pigs and works great for elk and bear in Idaho. This is the first video I’ve seen on your channel I’m now following I think it was nicely done. I just don’t chase the weight or speed numbers I find what I can shoot the best and hold out for ethical shots are what make the biggest difference. Do you know if Troy took up fmjj offer on the bow tuning video?
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
I glad to see the Ranch fairy get into crossbows hope he puts out some tuning videos on them
I'm sure he will!
Fantastic video, great discussion. Nice work, guys. 😊
Thanks so much!
Started hunting in my teens. I finally got into bow hunting. Then had shoulder surgery and my bow tech suggested a crossbow until I build my strength back. Love my crossbow it keeps hunting.
Good luck this fall!
After learning about Dr Ashby’s work, I started playing with my bolts and settled on a 650gr bolt, 30%FOC with a 2.5” schwacker that averages 275fps out of my crossbow. Been using that setup for 8 years now and it is a freaking freight train. I’ve hit every bone (and every combination of bones) you can hit in the vital area, from 7-60 yards and I have gotten a pass through every single time.
Awesome. Has the Schwacker held up from a structural standpoint in your experience?
If you ditch the mechanical and put on just about any fixed head, then you will be able to easily shoot through light brush, too, without any deflection.
Glad to hear you touching on the efficiency topic. I see it in the data table you put up at about the 15 minute mark, and I have also seen it in Troy's tables in his vertical bow videos. The lightest arrows are creating lower kinetic energy vs the heavier arrows, even though velocity squared should dominate the calculated KE values if efficiency wasn't changing. When you get to those 160 KE values, you're near the optimum capability of the crossbow/arrow system - it's probably relatively quiet, less "rattle" on the scope and other hardware, etc. The guy saying any crossbow will readily blow through any deer hasn't hunted much. I've seen a couple shot with crossbows and mechanicals that didn't get full penetration. The momentum theory along with a sturdy head is fully valid, as you've always stated, when heavy bone is in the flight path. I've been pretty pleased with Grim Reapers on my bow and crossbow overall, but you've convinced me to look hard at fixed blade heavy heads again.
Great comments! Hope you have an awesome season!
I've been running a 125 2" two blade Gr , but decided to bump up to the 150 grain this year. I got the 2 blade and some 3 blades. They're pretty beefy, so I'm excited to see what they do.
My crossbow was 430 fps, but im sure these heads will slow it down a bit, but it should still be plenty. I don't shoot over 30-35 yards or so.
Great video.
I am happy I switched my setup a bit to going heavy.
I was using medium weight for a bit at 525 grains but I find 600-610 grains is where I want the crossbow to be. The efficiency is just nice. I find though there is a huge difference between recurves and compounds now crossbow doesn’t matter they are a different beast.
The more I watch you he more I like your channel great video bro
Greatly appreciate that! Thanks!
It appears to me that by increasing bolt weight you are increasing the amount of energy that can be efficiently transferred from the bow to the bolt and take advantage of the huge energy dump that happens on each shot. I also believe a heavy bolt REDUCES stress on the bow limbs in terms of unused energy having to dissipate back through the bow limbs. My total arrow weight is about 610 with my setup and ( full disclosure) I am shooting a Sevr 150 mechanical with this set up. Love the content of this video guys. Appreciate you!
Thanks for the comment and tuning in. Your assessment is spot on!
With my barnet 370 if I use heavier bolt setups(usually 100g insert and 150g head) the thwack of the strings hitting the stops is quieter than the stock bolt with 100 grain tips.
Great video
Now replying to the corvette comment, I think it is more like swapping out the high rpm small block to a 455 big block- torque - big torque 👍🏻
Absolutely!
I have been doing this for the last few years , 20 inch , 475 gr with a Magnus 150 stinger and 2024 using single bevel Magnus and 4 inch straight vein , running just under 400 fps .
It’s a bolt wrecker not many blocks stop it..
Had great performance on game , solid pass throughs
I have moved away from mechanicals after a bad situation with one 4-5 years ago.
Awesome!! Killer setup, thanks for sharing!
Makes 100% sense!
🤘🤘
About to test a 3,300 grain arrow! That’s almost half a pound 😮 let the nerding out begin 😊
Is it made outta rebar!? 🤣
@@draggindeeroutdoors probably should be 🤣
If you ever venture into the traditional world of archery and shooting bows that at 160fps is pretty fast.... You'd have a totally different outlook on the heavy arrow debate.
It's funny the dudes making vids and chiming in on the subject all shoot compounds that are so fast that a lighter arrow may work just fine, and have never really experienced a crazy slow bow " 130-160fps and how the heavy, slow arrow reins supreme without question.
I have a few comments/questions for the questions asked. The first is about the Corvette. Which is easier and faster to stop, a Corvette travelling at 70mph or an 18 wheeler at 55mph? The second is about penetration. Would you want to shoot an elk at 300yds, with a faster, let's say 100gr .243 travelling at about 3100fps or a 30-06 with a little slower and heavier 168gr bullet at 2900fps? The last comment is about the deer not going very far after being shot with a razor sharp fixed blade. From what I remember reading a long time ago, when the deer was hit with a razor sharp broadhead, it was thought that it basically felt like being poked with a needle and the deer didn't actually know they were shot. Now, if you hit one with a less than razor sharp and even larger broadhead, the deer will definitely know they have been hit and run farther if they can, depending on what the broadhead hits. Edit: the bullet velocities mentioned above, are at the barrel, just to make that clear.
Great comments 👍👍
For me this is also a finacial issue. We harvested 5 deer with a single 200gr single bevel using a mission crossbow, just needed a quick touch up to the edge after each kill. The broadhead was finally retired after hitting gravel passing through the 5th deer.
I have never had a reusable mechanical. Although, my mechanical experience is limited to grim reaper and rage heads.
This was good to listen to as always, Matt. I’ve listened to Troy a few times and I am subscribed to his channel as well but of course I know you better and I could see the engineer wheels turning in your head the whole time you were discussing lol
The question that was asked can be answered without charts or all of the work that you put in. Not saying that it was no use because that was valuable information for sure.
I’ve got an X1 and I have several other X-bows & the one thing that’s consistent shooting a lightweight and a heavyweight into my 10 X crossbow broadhead target.
Single bevel heads will always penetrate the deepest. But if you compare a lightweight set up and a heavyweight set up, you will notice the difference in depth of penetration and it’s usually considerable.
With mechanical broadheads, it’s exactly the same. While they don’t penetrate as deep as the single bevel heads.
This is just a very simple real world test of velocity verses torque
I think that until they figure a way to harness the wasted energy 350-400ft/s will be the optimum speed range. Guys are having issues being accurate with the 515 but they don’t realize that the increase in speed increases any mistakes they make.
Keep up the great work guys
Thanks, Greg! Good insight as always!
@@draggindeeroutdoors you know, I like a big wide mechanical around 3 inches. My favorite was the NAP FOC 170, but there are times you have to pass on shots because of angles. If you ever need to take those hard cornering shots and you know you’re going to go through a scapula or any bone that’s where the single bevel really shines. Bone just isn’t going to stop it from splitting. I’m even playing with a Crimson Talon CROC 200 grain. A very nice inch and a half wide single bevel withgreat flight. Gonna order some Magnus SB today.
if I ever get carried away, just tell me to shut up lol
@@GregK-pv5xe LOL. No please, keep the comments coming!
@@draggindeeroutdoors thanks for the info you shared with me when we talked on the phone. I’ve got six of the single bevel 150 Ser Razors coming.
I bought the light weight kuiu shirt and pants on last year. Really like it. Want the Sitka but a little rich for me lol
Whatever works! Certainly don’t need all the fancy stuff
My 2 cents worth after a nearly 50 year span of hunting with archery equipment, every thing from long bow to crossbow. I have pretty much just hunted whitetail deer which is by far the most hunted animal by the hunters today, but deffinatly not all. So my experiences come with a relatively "soft" animal with the exception of the older large bucks. With the smaller " engine type" archery equipment moderately heavy arrows (good forward of center) with a razor Sharpe 2 blade is a big time advantage. When it comes to the modern speeds of cross bows I have had extremely good performance from the swhackers on a moderate weighted bolt/arrow with very short trails compared to the heavy 2 blades setups for the vertical bows. I have had them blow through ribcage then heart then humorous bone severing it in half and still bury in the ground. Now that said these animals are not very tuff to kill. If I were hunting anything tuffer there is no dought I would up my game on the on what would be flying out of my crossbow.
Thanks for sharing. Like we said, if you’ve got a setup that’s working for you…stick with it 👍
Nice video. I try to watch Troy every now and then but I feel like he is missing a few things. The broad head as well as the fletching can not create lift. They produce drag. Another issue I take is Troy him self has said he a producer not a consumer of content then discredits other archers by stating no one else discusses different topics. I think he makes valid points I think you two did an amazing job with the data. I’m not discrediting the conversation I would like to see as much emphasis on the tune and set of the kinetic energy machine as well as shooting fundamentals. I shoot 73 pounds 31 inch draw I push a 443gr arrow set up with a 50gr insert and 100gr iron will single bevel. I live in south Mississippi and that combo works great for pigs and works great for elk and bear in Idaho. This is the first video I’ve seen on your channel I’m now following I think it was nicely done. I just don’t chase the weight or speed numbers I find what I can shoot the best and hold out for ethical shots are what make the biggest difference. Do you know if Troy took up fmjj offer on the bow tuning video?
I had very good results with a crossbow and mechanicals for years until I had heartbreak. I lost the biggest buck of my life on a 1/4 away shot that put a 3" slice in the hide and deflected. I had it on camera the next night perfectly fine. My 7 yr old had a failure to open at 22 yards, which was probably fatal. We tracked it until the swamp was too deep to keep going... After I switched to Siruis Phoenix arrows and Tuffhead Evo 2.0 200 grain heads. I shot 3 deer that year. The first was 1/4 away and broke the opposite humerus bone in half and center punched the heart and got a pass through. The next deer I shot very hard 1/4 to me and broke the front humerus bone into 6 splinters, double lung, and a pass through. The last one was broadside and buried the arrow 15" in the ground severed the main artery off the heart. All with the same hand stropped and razor sharp broadhead on a high FOC knock tuned arrow.
Now that's some lethal performance! Your story is like many of ours, thanks for sharing!
So what's your TAW & FOC?
@@ray330 612 grains 26.2% foc
@draggindeeroutdoors Thank you for all the information you provide. Nobody talks about high FOC arrows setups for crossbows.
@@bradwilliquette1347 did the heavier weight quiet down the xbow much?
I love the Magnus stinger 150gr. Single bevel bh in all my x-bows- with as much foc as I can get
Glad you like them too! Thanks for watching!
Looking at the charts here - it appears that a 500 grain bolt might be a 'sweet spot' as far as grains/fps/energy goes. Does this make sense or am I just out in left field? Anyways, like that German on laugh-in used to say - very interesting. Good video, guys.
There’s a reason 500 total arrow weight ends up being my go-to setup for most bows 😉
With 400ish fps crossbows & Swhacker 2" cut broadheads, tw 400 grains/20" bolt. Fast, flat and accurate always a 2" exit many deer down & quick for me, deer do not seem that hard to shoot thru, IMHO. -W. Liggett
If that’s what you’re confident in…keep shootin’ it
Yes sir, love your channel, KI crossbows best bang for your buck, I have a Ripper 415 & a Ripper 425 (added a speed ring scope), if it's not broke don't fix it, deer do not seem to be hard to shoot through with modern 400fps xbows IMHO. -W. Liggett
Oh, and the car analogy using the heavier weight bolts as like taking the Corvette engine and putting it in a truck
i use a furious pro 9.5. My bolts are 573 gr. Last year i shot a doe that the bolt went through both scapulas. She ran 20 yards.
That’s awesome, Jim!
I bought the killer instinct vital x and 3 days later lost 100.00 but sold it. I will stick with my Excaliburs way more accurate at 40-50 yards
The bevels shoot Farkin great, in mine.. as well as nap slingblades, literally triple digit on those, im in a nuisance program, 40 yards is my limit though.
Awesome!
So in vertical bows, 670 grain TAW is the target to go through bones. What is the ideal TAW for a xbow to go thru bone?
My diesel X with R.f 200 broadhead shoots pinpoint as well. My bolts are 585 grain and it slings them around 345 fps.
Side note. The k.i fletchings didn't hold up well with the target block. I refletched with the "quick fletch" (shrink wrap fit) and they are great. Durable and easy to do.
Fantastic. Sounds like a great setup!
So one thing to point out on what Troy saw with a 150 gr head and 200 gr head could be what I have seen with rifles. At closer ranges sub 100 yards. I have seen heavier bullets with the same zero shot the same or higher than lighter faster bullets. The only thing we have been able to figure out is due to lower velocity of the heavier projectile and the more mass of the heavier projectile produces more recoil throw in the more time in the barrel due to the slower velocity gives the heavier projectile a trajectory higher then the lighter projectile by the time it leave the barrel. The only way we assumed this is between a buddy of mine and I shooting the same rifle and the same light and same heavy bullet. Let’s just say he is more stocky then I am, we actually saw the heavier bullets hitting higher than the lighter bullets with me than with him with the only variable being about 80# is body mass.
Good info, thanks for sharing!
Except that rifles recoil backward, and the crossbow is trying to go forward.
This is off topic sort of but does anyone know their crossbow setup weight? Total weight that you are carrying and holding full set up? Scope, quiver, bolts, everything. I’m at 12 pounds 4 ounces. I have a Burris Oracle X mounted on a Centerpoint Amped 425 and carrying 3 bolts. Just curious where others are at. I weighed the whole set up with a digital Rapala fishing scale.
Honestly not sure on my setups. None of them are heavy to the point it causes any concerns, so I’ve never weighed them. If yours is comfortable and works, keep running it!
My rotator cuff acted up again. 90 years old in two months. New Wrath 430 came with 400 gr bolts, 100gr field points. Right away 4 shots adjust scope then 4 shots from 20 to 50 yards arrows hit black 1/2 bulls eye. It was hard for me to believe the accuracy right out of the box. The whole thing without the quiver, plus camera is about 9 lbs. Shot a 4 blade Muzzy in the same hole as the field point The scope is not speed adjust, so I will shoot it as is on this hunt season. Later plan to upgrade scope to speed adjust, then go way FOC.
I am at work so I don't have time to watch the entire video, so I apologize if you answered this. I get the increased mass x decreased speed = increased momentum. But that is at the xbow, correct? What is the change at the target, say 40 yds? Won't the heavier arrow bleed of greater amounts of speed (and momentum) as it travels further down range. For example, (forgetting aerodynamics) if I throw a 10 lb bowling ball 414 fps from my hand, it still wont travel as far as the arrow. Or for arrows, does it take more than 40-60 yds to make a difference?
Troy recently did a video on this with his lab radar, this should help ya!
th-cam.com/video/7BtttQ3Ae_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=F4zFoCeLqon1REIs
I remember flinging 31.5" 2413s from an 83lb Jennings. I thought I needed all of that to kill a whitetail. I'm not sure any of those deer ever slowed an arrow down. Now, I'm using an xbow and my shoulder thanks me.
Good luck this fall!
I’m a heavy arrow or bolt guy with a cut on contact I like the magnus black hornet (the foamer) as Troy calls them lol but I was just wondering about the hybrid mechanicals I’ve seen a couple that have pretty much a cut on contact up front and smaller mechanical blades in the back do they work any better than the standard mechanicals or about the same?
I used the muzzy hybrid with tbe 2 fixed blade and 2 flip out mechanicals..I have had great luck with them on the crossbow but they are only good for 1 deer.The mechanical blades bend or chip up..I still use them though they fly great and the deer drop fast..Good luck
My suspicion is your 200 grain broad head has a higher B.C. I tested the 750 grain point, according to lab radar, it lost 3 fps over 39 yards. It still dropped like a rock unfortunately.
Great point Brian! Thanks for commenting!
Thank you
You’re welcome!!
So, what about the bolts that come with the X1? Do they drag? Do you HAVE to use those???
Sorry I’m not sure what you mean. The arrows that come with the X1 are the same HYPR arrows that come with many KI bows. You don’t have to use those, you just need to shoot the right nock and arrow specs required for the bow.
Its time for the archery world to step up and make arrows like bullets are made. Bullets are made based on optimizing ballistics. The speed at distance with the velocity at impact is where it's at. Why can't we get on board with this? We know the numbers that matter to calculate the optimal ballistics based on the specific speed of the bow why not work on broadhead weight/arrow weight/spine strength combinations that hit the sweet spot for common bow/crossbow speeds? If I were in this industry I would collaborate with a bow or crossbow manufacturer, an arrow manufacturer, and a broadhead manufacturer and make the perfect ballistic combo for deer, elk, and pigs. This would be a no-brainer for hunters to get away from buying simply for FPS and into the sweet spot for fps, arrow spine strength/weight, and broadhead weight. Lets go. I would love to get involved as an investor in this. Its way past due.
Couldn’t agree more, it’s a great opportunity!
The reason this can’t work is because every bow is different every crossbow is different and every archer is different.
Yet a 30-06 is a 30-06.
A 30-30 is a 30-30 a .50 cal is a .50 cal.
It doesn’t matter if a long armed mountain man is using it or a short framed 100 lb woman using it.
Archery is not the same. Ideally it’s up to the archer to do that with their setups hahahaha.
I have a 400 fps Ravin r26
Where is the sweet spot on 400 fps
I mean what is the best efficiency for that speed of crossbow?
In all reality you gotta play around and see what your bow/arrow like best. Every arrow shaft is different, each bow model has a different power curve in how it delivers energy.
If you want a very ballpark answer, my swat x1 is similar in size to your r26 and has always done well with total arrow weights right around 500 grains.
Hey the guys. I was wondering can I get some help with my raven arrows? No one will touch them and I want to run a650 grain set-up. Needs inserts installed. And a good broadhead. Thank you
What do you mean by no one will touch them?
Shwaker 150 grain is ok 3inch hole when open but very dull blades blood trails sometimes suck
Only reason I don't shoot fixed is accuracy .arrow plains. I wish I could figure it out
Check out some of our other videos on arrow tuning! And definitely check out Ranch Fairy TH-cam channel!
My crossbow is shooting 430 with over a 400 grain arrow I'll have to add it up that's with 150 grain head
If you increase the bolt, wouldn't that mess up the scope that is set for zero at 20, then your 30-100 would be dead on, but if you go up in wt. Your 30-100 would hit low
Yes. Increasing arrow weight would require you to sight in again.
"HP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you push it".
Do you notice a benefit of a heavier set up being quieter when fired
I have. My crossbow is much quieter, and my heavy bolts dont “swish” through the air, they sound like a bird coming in to land, very quiet
Yes, absolutely 👍
Shooting 720 grains with 350 tuffheads 25:02 at about 280 fps at 20 yards deer have no chance. Bolts generally almost to fletchings in hard clay with small gravel after pass through on deer
Awesome 🤘🤘
Don’t make the crossbow haters mad they’ll come tell you how you’re not a real hunter lol
They can say whatever they want
You guys need to check out death by bungees video on this subject. It’s really good.
YES 🙌
Thanks for watching!
Don has never shot a pig in the shoulder before
The problem with archery today guys think they are rifle hunting archery never been long distance hunting . Learn to hunt closer to your game
Yessir, up close and personal!
What’s long range to you with a modern compound bow?
@@progradepainting3755 40 yards for me personally in the whitetail woods.
@@draggindeeroutdoors I’ll drill out a golf ball all day long at 40 yards. And a softball at 50. You need to practice more. Be less concerned with weight, or what head you use, and more with form, your sight axis, and the accuracy of your range finder at those distances. 60 yards is where it becomes more specific as to what the issue actually is…
@@progradepainting3755 cool story 👍 looking forward to seeing your shooting tips video!
Just shot my new swat x1 TODAY for the first time. Shoulder injury. Keep up the vids on X1 TROY.
How ya like the X1?
Super sweet. I have a Scorpyd. X1 is so smooth
Maybe to soon in the video, irony, Fairy got me shooting single bevels, out of my crossbow... i kill critters with everything so to each his own. My compound days may be drawing to an end health wise but i never knock anybody for taking game with whatever, to each his own, except for the bathroom situation our country is in
Good luck this fall!
I used swackers n bad results. Same thing with rage. I gotta go single bevel.
Good luck 👍🍀
❤❤
Thank you!
My crossbow is an old parker challenger shorting at 310fps my bow is a bit faster at 370fps I'm experimenting with bigger foc I'm no longer using mechanicals I've had not much success wit them
Hope you have great luck this fall!
Oh, the broadhead was a g5 monec
🤘🤘
Honest question: why is he called Ranch Fairy?
I mean, I don't wanna assume anything.......
HAHAHA! That's his nickname on his family property in Texas that he manages. He takes care of everything, and to his family its like it all magically came together.
You already proved the stock bolts these xbows come with are not getting all the efficiency as a heavier bolt with the calculation of kinetic energy at different bolt weights. Free 10 ft/lbs of KE for using the right weight? Yes please.
It’s there to be harnessed, if you wanna use it take advantage of it!
Dude, you think you’re short KE at 100 foot pounds my trad bow generates 34 works fine.
Your trajectory is crap and TOF is increased so what you can pick up the arrow 30 yards past the deer instead of 20??? Lol
I don't know how you could make a decision on a top tier crossbow without having a scorpyd in the discussion. Fit, finish, balance, trigger pull, accuracy, reliability... A scorpyd is really hard to beat. The speed with relatively heavy arrows comes from a long reverse limb powerstroke with relatively low lb limbs when compared to other bows in the same speed range. Im much more comfortable with cocked 150-160 lb limbs than a 230+ lb limbs in close quarters. Not saying there arent other good bows out there but by leaving scorpyd out of consideration you're not doing yourself any favors. Just my two cents. Happiness comes with heavy arrows!
Everyone want to use rage as an example of a mechanical broadhead blades shearing off. Why doesn't anyone talk about swhacker? Ive put them through shoulder blades, front leg bones, put s 3/4" deep cut through the bottom of a spine. Never broke a blade. Not a cut on contact broadhead. They open inside.....pristine clean sharp blades... In the vitals. You're past the ribs by the time they open. Sound good? Thats a swhacker. I do sharpen the blades which by the way are easily removed and replaced after sharpening.
They hate the Natal Study because they want to sell you the new bow. Arrows are cheap.
👍
I am not a crossbow guy in fact I kind of hate them but if you're going to shoot a crossbow you do not need to shoot 300 plus screens up front you do not need to knock tune and all that other malarkey they're accurate out of the box Aim, Shoot, kill...
With field points…sure. With broadheads, nock tuning 100% makes a difference. Why not do it? It’s FREE accuracy improvement!!
Please, for mental health, don't start testing 😢
hahaha
killer bs and customer service is non existent ill never own another 1
My experience has been very different. Sorry yours has been negative.
One word on sharp blades inside....SWHACKER... SHARPENED SWHACKER. THEY ARE BETTER THAN A FIXED BECAUSE THE CUTTING BLADE DOESN'T CUT THROUGH BONE OR HAIR. They don't go far.
Ranch fairy does not know shit from shine about crossbows have any clue why he is even talking on this matter hell if up to him crossbow will still be at 300’fps
I’m sure he’s looking forward to your crossbow videos, Eric!
Nice video. I try to watch Troy every now and then but I feel like he is missing a few things. The broad head as well as the fletching can not create lift. They produce drag. Another issue I take is Troy him self has said he a producer not a consumer of content then discredits other archers by stating no one else discusses different topics. I think he makes valid points I think you two did an amazing job with the data. I’m not discrediting the conversation I would like to see as much emphasis on the tune and set of the kinetic energy machine as well as shooting fundamentals. I shoot 73 pounds 31 inch draw I push a 443gr arrow set up with a 50gr insert and 100gr iron will single bevel. I live in south Mississippi and that combo works great for pigs and works great for elk and bear in Idaho. This is the first video I’ve seen on your channel I’m now following I think it was nicely done. I just don’t chase the weight or speed numbers I find what I can shoot the best and hold out for ethical shots are what make the biggest difference. Do you know if Troy took up fmjj offer on the bow tuning video?