Dudley & ElkShape Talking Arrows
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Dudley & ElkShape Talking Arrows - it's almost fall archery season so to kick it off proper me and the DUD aka @nockonarchery are chatting about arrows and tuning! #ABT #ElkShape #Nockon
00:07:30 - What inspired Dudley's social posts recently
00:16:45 - The Ashby arrow recommendation chart
00:24:50 - Is JD willing to make concessions on adding weight to an arrow to achieve better penetration/quieter shot?
00:37:11 - Are Spine Charts Up to Date? Charts could soften up some based on advancements in bow tuning and timing.
00:50:00 - Grouping arrows with 3 different spines at 90 meters
00:52:30 - JD tested arrow vanes flight characteristics by their factory color
00:54:20 - JD's Hill Method Testing for spine selection
00:58:00 - Dan likes 3 Vanes... What does Dudley like?
01:02:30 - Is Spine alignment relevant.. what about nock tuning?
01:09:30 - Should folks run stock nocks or go with aftermarket nocks?
01:11:20 - Why do lighted nocks suck for 4mm arrows?
01:26:00 - JD's Easton Arrow Seminar Presentation
01:31:30 - Dan got introduced to Torque Tuning - What's JD's take?
01:37:15 - Bridgelock and Picatinny mounts
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It's nice to see someone blowing the fairy dust off everything.
If I could like this comment 1000 times I would. The fairy dust is a joke!
😂
@@Pr1mitiveHunterthe fairy dust is 100 percent real. It’s physics
John shoots 520 grains with 150 to 175 out front
Troy never said you have to shoot 700 grains.
THP shoots sub 600 grain. Watch all Troy's videos not media cuts
Some people just can’t grasp the concept RF is teaching. If all those people could judge yardage or use a dam rangefinder… ! If you are shooting at a whitetail more than 40yrds, you are wrong. Wind, animal reactions, your nerves. Elk maybe 60yrds but they offer a much bigger target. No arrow no matter how fast is gonna beat an alert animal jumping the string. Especially a loud ass 70lb bow shooting a 300gr arrow. Crazy all the haters !
Thanks for having John Dudley on. I've learned so much from him teaching on his videos. Could listen to him all day!
Thanks for listening
I hunted in natchez ms in a club for 10 yrs! Some of the best and biggest bucks I’ve ever laid eyes on
One of the more informational podcasts in awhile! Absolutely confirmed what ive been seeing in my own testing with spine charts.
Glad to see u guys drop this so soon, was watching the live stream on the gram yesterday and it kept fading in and out of where I was. Thanks for posting it up.
Absolutely loved this pod dude!!! I love John's outlook and dedication and passion as an archer and it shows. The dude is a freakin genius and is highly underrated imo. Imo if ya don't know John ya don't know shit about archery. He is a major reason archery is where it is today and that's the cold hard truth.
Dudley is absolutely right. Instead of buying the newest gadget. Spend the time at the range. Shoot what you shoot the best. And have fun.
“You should spare neither effort nor expense in achieving perfect arrow flight. Even with every other factor in place, without good arrow flight you will have poor arrow performance” -Dr. Ed Ashby
I think a lot of the people get stuck on the 650 gr arrow when they watch Ranch Fairy videos and skip over the arrow flight part.
Obviously you are not listening to Troy well enough. He's a arrow flight first guy. Sure FOC rox, but if it won't fly right, it's not good. Same with 650 grains. He just happens to say MOST people will be in the 65-67 pound pull range. Well im not, i'm 80 so I had to listen harder to what he was pitching. Sure FOC, penetration, BUT a TUNED arrow. You have to absorb the whole PITCH he's stating. His info is actually proven physics based on momentum being harder to stop then less momentum. Tune it with FOC and whalla.
RF does not suggest everyone needs 650gr arrows - in fact often promotes 550gr arrows.
@michaelrosa5410 I'm not taking advice from someone who doesn't hunt whitetail and doesn't get pass thrus with his own heavy arrows.
Nock On Archery should totally release arrow test kits
Excellent Pod !
What shade of lipstick are you wearing Dan? 😂
This is better then Bow disciples show with Brandon and T bone, dude from bow disciples was completely in his own world while brandon and tbone had a solid conversation..
I used to like bow disciples more lately been a bit corny for me.
Dudley is a box full of knowledge… dude is a legend🙌🏼. Glad u had him on Dan! Thanks!👊🏼
Saddle hunting in thick areas shooting under 30 I shoot heavy around 600gr with 60 a pound bow. Everything else in open areas is 450ish.
48 min mark. Exactly what Troy talks about .
Best pod past 👌
Congrats!
Couple questions
1 - can you bring the meat back to the US?
2 - can you bring the head in or do you need it taxidermied down there and shipped?
3 - if you feel comfortable, about how much was it to do the stag hunt? Im interested in doing hunts pike this, but I cant find any costing without calling the ranches.
His arrow vids have brought me back to reality. It's all about focus, form, and practice
Nooo you have to ABT spending 1000s of dollars a season trying new equipment to be a good archer duhhh
@@huntermazzio713 oh dude I have! I bought 4 different bows this year! But in my journey I'm finding things that just work. No fluf, no headache, just performance.
@@jackbuendgen389 dude 4 bows?
@@williedunn-rj6nq yup. Bought an elite omnia, couldn't get that thing to tune. So I traded that for a bowtech SS34, that broke so I bought a used bowtech reckoning for a tournament. Then I bought a hoyt RX-5 😁
@@jackbuendgen389lmao. I’ve been shooting my target arrows for hunting the last few seasons to save money. Because they work phenomenal
Is Dan wearing pink lipstick?!?!
Well the Helo that carried bin Ladin as a MV-22. Which has six props.
Dudley's message is spot on. Right tool for the right application. 500 to 700 grain arrow for TAC makes no sense. It might make sense for an ELK hunt, but Dudley is spot on .... accuracy, accuracy, accuracy .... practice, practice, practice ... The industry is so good and many of the Ashby research is already inherently built in i.e. durability, etc., Get your setup shooting a great arrow - what does that mean for me or you? We need to figure that out for ourselves and our setup! Great message - great content. Thanks fellows.
The archery community needed this podcast! There is a happy medium folks!
Saw Dud and Troy from Ranch Fairy Dud was so focused on being right and could not handle thinking outside of the box. Total Narcisiam
Hoping Dud gives RF a public apology for being totally unprofessional to him on the podcast. Totally brought him on to discredit, and didn't want to listen to a word the man had to say. Wasn't much of "finding a middle ground"
Thank you for getting Mr. Dudley on your podcast. That man helped me with his school of nock after I came back to bow hunting. We all want to be ethical hunters, tinker with things (broad heads, point weight, fletchings) see what works best for you but don't forget to practice at rangers you are comfortable with and possibly hunting at. Love the continent from both of your guys, would like to possibly see elk hunt together this fall? Great job Dan keep up the great work.
People buy their hopes ....instead of shooting to get ready to what they hope
Troy is about killing hogs and deer that are close range. I believe that he is spot on for close range, but accuracy at distance John cannot be denied!! He is SPOT ON!!
Settled at about 525gr with a sharp fixed magnus head and feel like I could shoot anything in North America and be fine I don’t need 750+ gr for a deer lol
Indeed!
Absolute gold💪🏾
You know what’s strange? Everyone twists what Troy talks about and thinks he says you gotta shoot 700 grains when in reality he says to aim for 500-550. Dudley has said he hunts with 530 ish so where’s the disagreement? The main thing Troy tries to highlight is perfect arrow flight and a sharp broadhead with a strong feral
All important pieces to the puzzle! My takeaway from chatting with JD is to never ignore the fundamentals. That’s where the majority of our time and energy should go 👊🏼
Thanks for watching. -DS
Big facts bro. They just like to hate
I look forward to talking to Troy. We’ve had some good text.
Dudley is also shooting an arrow that is barely even cut or not at all, so its naturally going to be more heavy due to his 31” draw length…and just 50 grain insert and 100 grain point. Not 250/300 grains upfront
I don’t know, I clearly remember him touting a 1000 plus grain arrow at one point. And I’ve bought his test kit, and gone through his tuning process for those arrows, and it sets you up around 650 grains.
People don’t have the patience for the love and dedication John Dudley has toward archery..
Great to see he has everyones best interest at heart. 🙏
I’ve been waiting for this one! The dude that got me into archery and the dude that got me into elk hunting and taking my first elk! Let’s goooooooo
Congrats on the Elk
Perfect for all the dudes arguing about how much helical to put on their arrows but can’t hit a stop sign at 40 lol
Totally agree with Dud, hope more follow his path of re-education!!
I help a lot of buds get into archery and the majority jump straight to the fanciest gear and get mad that they aren’t instant pros! Gotta put the work in first!!
Anyone who goes to TAC with a bow setup for buffalo or elephant is a fool. TAC and hunting are two different things. The guy getting the blame never said you need penetration on a paper or foam target. You dont need super penetration on whitetail size - loaded question?
Dudly trying to stay relevant.
Makes me wanna puke he's associated with PSE now.
I dont mind dudley, but my lord is he hard to listen to. He could take out a solid 80% of words spoken and still deliver the same information.
Best pod I have heard in a longtime. I freakin love Dudley
Dudley you Cam Hanes and his archery protégé Joe Rogan did a couple awesome bow hunts for Axis in Hawaii and Elk in Utah.
Why did it quickly stop makes it appear to be something going on ? Are there any more Cam Hanes and Maybe Joe Rogan combo hunts again this year ?
Really good podcast! So much technical information. I remember when the tune charts were on the weak side and spoke to John about it. His rewrite of the spine chart was right on! Thanks guys for presenting this information!
Another item he went off about is release aids on the podcast with the Dr friend. Only two releases I can think of he was talking about, Onnex click or the Thumb. Wish someone would push him on that.
Does Mr. Elkshape have lipstick on? lol
Very good pod... I do think there is that happy medium of both worlds. To get out in front of it, everyone should do their best to practice as much as they can and have the best form possible. But 95% of archers do not have access to the ranges, time to do it, or the coaching. So what these 95% of archers do have access to is ordering or building arrows that they want to effectively help them harvest game the way they hunt big game. IF that means higher end carbon with weight upfront to get better penetration when that Whitetail is frontal or quartering to, then he can do that. This may be his one opportunity to kill a trophy whitetail in his entire life. When he lists the 5 guys "who have killed more animals that didn't fall within the chart', those 5 guys are the top 1% of archery hunters. You can kind of compare it to turkey or waterfowl hunting loads... you can easily kill turkeys with cheap lead or waterfowl with cheap steel... but if you can afford to run TSS or Bismuth, that will work better. The beautiful thing is that the conversation is never ending and people can shoot what they want.
I have so much to do right now and this video is preventing that. Super hard to pause.
I shoot a 420 total weight and blow through everything.
How (freakin') lucky are we as bowhunters to have such a knowledgeable archer share his years and years of experience with us...thank you for taking the time to do this.
Dudley is the Goat! Holy smokes he was dropping and explaining knowledge like no other!
I love the passion John has when speaking about anything to do with shooting a bow!!
Dudley kills a deer with a 17 lb bow while half the bow world out here shooting 80-85 lb bows.. lmao. That's sorta like shooting one with a .243 while everyone else is using 50 cal barrett or 338 lapua 😅😂
Dan...Always be tinkering. John...stop tinkering and get out and shoot.
Is Dudley's podcast about NASP and Dept Ed's Interpretation of BSCA up yet?
Literally, both my mentors in one screen, they probably don't know it but everything I know about archery comes from these guys. Dan's philosophies have changed my life
A couple of questions for all who commented here?
Bow hunting specifically,
At what yardage do you deem it unethical to take a first shot on an animal?
How do you determine your effective range?
I tell people this. You’re affective range as a hunter is about half your affective range in practice.
About gadgets. YOU DONT NEED ALL THE LATEST GREATEST. Good quality simple clean bows, sights and good quality release even several years old will work just fine. You have to use it. Thousands of arrows . Hundreds of hours if you can. My five year old Elite is awesome. I probably won’t buy another bow. No reason. And at $1200 plus? Nope.
John man of so much good information, Dan man of so much experience. Ashby data. Is this what we really need. All of you guys are well respected. You are all at the top. And yes we will all still value your opinions.
No doubt we will all take in as much information as we can, & use what information we feel will work the best.
If that doesn’t work we will get back to you guys.
I thank you all for your dedication & beliefs.
Regards
Steve Richardson
Australia
So I'm not going to argue heavy vs light. There's enough of that going on. With that being said, I shoot decently heavy, I do agree if you can't shoot then your arrows don't matter. I will also say your arrows would be based on 2 things. What your bow likes and shoots well, and in a hunting situation something that you can have confidence in.
The biggest misconception I see with the bow hunting community is that arrows kill with KE, which they don't. It's all about momentum. Dudley makes a great point that speed does play a role in accuracy and getting your arrow to the point of aim as fast as possible is key. However, if your arrow is super fast, but doesn't have the momentum and quality head up front to slice through the tough stuff, its worthless. I shoot a 80lb APA King Cobra DG and my arrows are 30" 750gr because for my bow, that length running 200gr heads up front, the 170spine is where it's happy. Now with that being said, my arrows are also floating that 270fps, so I have everything. Now is my setup overkill for most of North American game.. absolutely, but my goal is to always shoot through my target vs at it. I also built my setup to be a one and done to hunt just about anything on the planet. Not to mention I don't ever plan on shooting an animal over 50yds. I'm glad Dudley did touch on deer reacting to the arrow. There's quite a bit of data showing animals are reacting to the sound of the vanes and not the arrow. I always try to run the lowest profile quietest vanes, and noticed a big difference in animals reaction once I started doing that. Having a really fast arrow with crazy aggressive vanes sounds like a dang scud missile coming at them, and they'll react like crazy.
What shade of lipstick is that Dan?
I loved nockturnals and still use them. But their quality began suffering when they sold out to feradyne. But there's been a noticeable increase in inconsistency and failures. So I have a lot more discards nowadays.
Another dope interview. I've been trying to concentrate more on my form lately. You can have the perfect arrow setup, but if you have bad form, that arrow won't perform like it should. Keep these rollin' out. I learn alot from your discussions.
#ABT
Best archery Podcast I have seen in ages. Great job and thank you fellas!
DUD runs a business. He don't give 2 shits about nothing but making money. He is business man.
You think he doesn’t have any passion for hunting and helping people? He coaches a lot of people and puts out a lot of good info on archery. He has to make a living just like anyone else.
Dudley is a national treasure to the archery community. Good lord. That dude was created by the archery gods.
There are alot of physics being ignored here
Awesome podcast I could listen for another two hours!
John. Please backup your laptops to the cloud 😂
Caught the live on IG yesterday, and really enjoyed it. JDud has forgotten more technical info than most will ever know in the Archery world. Love his takes. Thanks Dan
That is 100% true, people forget how good he was way back when and equipment wasnt nearly as dialed as now
When you (Dan) stops the show to make sure everyone knows troys your dude says a lot about how good of a dude you are! Keep it up!
I appreciate that! Got respect for everyone’s experience and insight.
Could have kept listening for another two hours.
Put all those pictures from that laptop online so we can look at all the differences in arrow builds.
could not possibly disagree more with dud on this. ill never shoot anything sub 500 grains again.
I am sooooo glad you had Dud on I have been following him since 2013 knowing his background and his knowledge he is so good for the archery community 🤘🏻
This was such a fun one! So glad I watched the video as opposed to listen to just audio. Great info and just a fun “hangout” with Dan and Dud!
“Notch tags and love archery”
Keep perfecting your form. It’s free and you will receive the most improvement from it
I can listen to John Dudley talk about archery all day long! I never really thought about nocks wearing out.
This was, by far, one of the best podcasts I've listened to. Dud is a stud, and the works he's put in and the knowledge he drops for us constantly is wild. You two are my go-to archery guys! Thanx for the work.
Great podcast with DUD! People don't understand the amount of experience he brings to the table. Appreciate all the info.
Really enjoyed this. I would love to see more and I want more of a peek of Johns laptop 😂
This is a great conversation. Always knew Dudley was detailed but damn!
It irresponsible to take 50 60 yrd shots so many bad things can happen
Build your own arrows and test them extensively. I tell ppl once you have figured out your perfect tune/balance-FOC….order 3-4 dozen all of the same arrow brand…start testing…record your data (.003-has been shown the overwhelming majority can’t outshoot that arrow)…arrow deflection matters more for accuracy
Hands down the best podcast you have ever done Dan. I could listen to Dudley talk tech all day. Such a wealth of knowledge.
Im a bit confused... When Dud brought out the old computer with spine tests at distance with different shafts, shaft lengths, and tip weights displaying arrow flight/accuracy at distance... Basically he was doing the same thing that the Ranch Fairy is encouraging people to do with his test kits to achieve great arrow flight to maximize penetration... Not sure why he has a rub with the Fairy.... I love them both, but it seems sometimes that those who disagree, have more in common than not. All yall, (Dud, Fairy, ElkShape, MFJJ) have great scientifically based data from decades of experience, and I love gleaning bow/arrow wisdom from all of you..
Mathews Z7, 28 draw, 64 lb, Victory VAP Elite @ 28", 100g insert, 125g point. I dare any of you to challenge me at whitetail ranges. 🤔💀
Great job guys, love that you are breaking it down. Dudley is the man!!
Thank you to both of you. Being a new archer some times I find myself lost on arrow knowledge.
So much info! I'm going to have to watch again and takes notes!
Great podcast!
One of the best talks on archery that I have ever heard. I really like the historical parts, spine talk etc. Beautiful.
One thing to say about the technical data....Wow. Thanks!
I think Dud has lost Dan 😂
Totally great video without a doubt the best shuf out there
Great insight and knowledge from an industry giant. Loved it
Awesome just awesome very important information
Paige Peirce has an outstanding video about tourqe tuning.
PS: you should get her on the show, she's a phenomenal archer, give really good advice and she's a hunter as wellz she's not just a target archer. I listen to a few archers and those people are John Dudley, MFJJ, Levi Morgan, Paige Peirce, Chris Bee, and Troy aka RF ( he actually has some good information, I dont shot a heavy arrows btw, but he has some other good content other than heavy arrows)
Awesome podcast!!!! Great information as always! 👍👊
good arrow info -- thanks
T- 30 days until season boys!! Atleast where I am lol
Great video thank you for sharing very informative
Dudley don’t have to buy, everything is give to him. Rich get richer saying is true
I gotta agree on that e2 cam. It is smooooooth.
I wonder how much the impact of overspining arrows is with modern bows and drop down rests.