The ORIGINS of the Parallel Twin
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this week's episode, Mark and Kevin talk about the origins of the parallel twin motor. What makes this motor so popular? And are they actually taking over the world? We answer all of these questions in this episode.
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Can't get enough of Kevin Keep these coming
Kevin rocks!
Kevin is such a pleasure to listen to after reading for all these years. Amazing knowledge he shares!
Great work, always nice to hear Kevin's insights
Kevin and Mark - I read so much of your work from the good old days of printed CW.... So very nice that both of you are still in moto journalism!!! Great to see your faces and hear your voices. Same goes to John Burns, Nick Ienatsch, and Jimmy Lewis.
Evans Brasfield - we will forever miss you
And Peter Egan...
@@JohnNewton-ev8ch Absolutely! Peter's books help me get through the winter months.
I was riding my Yamaha 650 Twin, my buddy a Honda v 4, we swapped bikes and shortly after swapped back - "if all motorcycles felt like that I wouldn't ride." I guess he'd never ridden an older air cooled Sportster either.
I recently came into possession of a 2007 Yamaha TDM 900. I've been blow away by how easy it is to ride. Heaps of Mid range power, very competent handling and relatively light. I've always been a sports bike guy but the TDM is a real eyeopener!
I think parallel twins make the perfect motorcycle engine. It's has a perfect balance for the everyday rider.
Earliest iteration of p2 cylinders with 270 crank the TRX850 l think. Still the best sounding bike of all time IMO. Cheers
And so here I am looking for a pre 270 Bonneville...I guess I'm one of those 16 guys they made happy. There is no sound on earth better than a snarling, growling 360 twin - at least for me.
Thanks for a great video ,a minor caveat, i think Yamaha;s contribution was worth more than a single sentence. In my 65 years of riding, the TDM was the most reliable and fun to ride and good for 200k miles with minimal maintenance, glorious exhaust note with an aftermarket can.
We've moved down to a parallel twins because they are cheaper for manufacturers. They are cheaper to design, R&D, manufacture and it can be used in multiple styles of bikes. But the engines aren't superior to triples and 4 cylinders or even some V-twins.
These conversations are my new favorite. I've read and re-read "Top Dead Center" many times, and now to listen in on these guys is perfect.
Can we please get Kevin's take on fort nines video on this 270 v 285 degree crank info. Also the Moore Mafia guys with there crazy drag race bikes technology compared to how things used to be. More Kevin Cameron!!!! Also get Peter Egan on one!!!
The 270 parallel twin provides the character and sound of a 90 degree L twin with much more compactness and manufacturing simplicity. And takes away the heat from rear cylinder from under your butt - win win
Having ridden/owned/sold/raced (unsuccessfully!) motorcycles since the mid 60's, I believe the relatively recent move to twins was late arriving due to many motorcycle magazines and their journalists worshipping ONLY at the alter of ultimate power and race track performance. I personally quit buying magazines in the 1990's after inadvertently purchasing the same issue twice, since the covers of all magazines seem to only feature 2 or 3 sport bikes laid over in a corner with some hyperbolic headline about a "shootout". But I digress.
The lack of attention to the the middle ground of motorcycles resulted in few, often low performing models with little attention paid to anything but price. And when some gleams of hope would appear, some lip service about great handling might be noted (eg Honda 650 Hawk), and then attention would be immediately diverted back to models carrying higher speed capability. Even when models arrived that made no pretense of being high performance, those were often dismissed out of hand, as did a former editor of Cycle World when confronted with the NT700, intimating it was an unlikeable, boring motorcycle for nerds.
So finally, with the economic damage done in the early 2000's, serious attention is being paid to developing interesting, involving, capable, and approachable motorcycles with affordable price tags. I presently have a number of bikes, but the ones I ride the most are also ones that are easy and practical. ALL motorcycles are fun!
For example, I have owned all the DCT equipped Hondas, but my NC750 comes closest to being perfect. I admit when I test rode it the first time (manual trans) I was underwhelmed. But living with the DCT on a long term basis, it hss become the go-to daily rider because of it's practicality, economy, real world power, light weight, versatility, and discovered it to be an engaging, real motorcycle.
I'm glad I discovered the conversations you are having, as I have been a huge fan of Kevin's, and this may be one of few motorcycling "journals" I follow. Great job, fellas!
Gotta go, my CB450K7 is waiting for it's freshly painted tank!
Glad I found this series.
Kevin, will you please give us a deep dive on Honds's new e-clutch? Is this technology old (CT90, etc) Recluse or a real game changer?
You are the man!
Thank you,
I don't know why the balancing problem wasn't solved much earlier in history. It's just phase cancellation, which has been known about for a very long time.
Imho what killed triumph was vibration. You have to experience it to believe how bad it was. The sohc 750/4 was crazy smooth for not having balancers. The triumph was kick start but in power, build quality, and handling was as good as honda.
BMW survived with an aircooled twin. The boxer configuration cancelled vibration. True, they had support of bmw car division.
I own two parallel twins, a Yamaha T7 and a RE 650 SM. Both are great bikes.
As most street motorcycles are built down to a price yet are very good: Engine, Chassis, Brakes, geometry etc. The one weak link seems to be is the suspension, when improved it transforms the bike. Could be an interesting topic to explore.
Interesting Topics: If you had to design an engine for your bike with unlimited resources, what would you pick? Talk about Allen Millyard and his bikes. c90adventures-style trips. What would you change in the 1300 engines if you worked at BMW. Or Indian. Or HD. Bike trips. First motorcycle experiences. Past stories/experiences. Predictions for 2030. Riding in Winter. Insights from recent visits Kevin did. And lots more :)
Don’t you think the 270 crank gives you power like a v-twin (tractable power)?…
You all are the best in moto knowledge!
These 2 guys have a great chemistry
1. Val page’s twin, edward turner came just after.
I have a '98 Honda VFR800FI that I really enjoy riding. Heli-bars help my wrists out and GIVI side cases and a top box allow me to bring along my "things". BTW, nothing says "old man" like a top box (68 here). This little 781cc Vee Four is a treat. Nice linear power band and an exhaust note that gives one the tingles! May I cue the vee four motor up as a possible future topic of discussion?
I could give a kidney for.work in cycle world with this level.of technical aimed dudes...
Bravo
Cheers from brazil
I owned a typical parallel twin with a good frame, a 94 GS500. I made it run smooth as butter by adding one tooth to the front sprocket and getting the seat reupholstered with semi viscous polymer padding under the foam.
Thanks for covering these engines. My 21 BMW F750GS has this engine . Really has the get up and go I was looking for when traveling. Really nice bike. Thanks again for these discussions. Sure learned alot on the talk on tires.
That’s very enlightening on the current engine situation.
I’ve been out of biking for well over a decade now, so as somebody who admired the packaging and looks of say, the Commando, Bonneville, Daytona etc (if not the day to day running practicalities) what would be recommendations for an agile, torquey general purpose modern twin?
Loved my 83 XS650SK Yamaha twin. 80,000 miles in 8 years!
What about the Scott, a water cooled, 2stroke, parallel twin which won an Isle of Man TT race before the 1st world war, and was in continuous production until the 1960s.
Surprised you didn't mention the KTM Duke series. They seem to be leading the way on parallel twins. Maybe cost more than the Japanese but much better hardware.
These talks are fantastic, thank you!! Is there any chance you could put these out in parallel (😊) to a pod catcher? It would be great to listen to these conversations on my R1150RT!
How about the history of the R5/RD 350? Were did it come from and were did it go. I miss it very much.
Have to say, I agree.
I'll be more on board when I see forced induction twins 😅
If you ride a motorcycle wide open at all times you can always distinguish your target by muzzle flash😂 Kevin is a funny old bastard
Doesn't direct injection solve all the piston ring crevice issues? In fact why don't Motorcycles go Direct Injection? Have they solved the intake port carbon issues or is both direct and port injection required?
'refrigerator compressor' is a worse slight than 'lawnmower engine'.
The Twins seem Thumpy.. whereas the 3 cylinder engines and above do not. With water cooling, the 3 cylinder fits easily within the frame. Four cylinder water cooled start to get wide, but screme.
The American riding public wants smaller motorcycles today because most are older or younger and broke and just want to ride and don't want to pay the big bucks for the big bike and the big bucks for insurance.
Twins are cool and all, but to me they're not as exciting as higher cylinder engines. I'm eagerly anticipating the release of the Yamaha R9 with their amazing crossplane triple.
🤌 Happy Easter to Kevin👹.. But only Kevin 😑
Kevin mechanical has been beaten... There are five digital modes for the running of my motor😮road,dyna,enduro,enduro-pro, rain .... And the default factor of my operation being 'retard' 😂has nothing to do with timing...
I can 'mechanically' select through those choices... By handlebar button. While simultaneously adjusting my suspension for; single rider or passenger with or without luggage.... And configurations of soft•medium•hard, on the fly by handlebar push button😮.
The bike is smarter than I am.. mechanically😂
Always preferred the parallel twins. Had 2 Suzuki GS500E's back in the day and they were imo the perfect bike. Always wished for a 700-800 cc version. Nice to see them finally get their place.
Yep. Primarily, I wanted to see a GSX500 with FI. I miss little GS500. Liquid cooling would have been nice, but it was also nice to strip it all the way down to the cylinder tubes without draining anything...😂
Now you can buy yourself an 770cc Suzuki gsx-8s or 8r.
Cost.
The most narrow twin , SUNBEAM .
Two cylinders are enough.
One's enough, two is a luxury. I've got two, by the way. I don't mind boasting, when I can.
I like to stroke a flat slide carburetor... Repeatedly to make noise... While burning mixed fuel ⛽
My 2000 is still burning oil in 2024...cr125 😮 never had cases split still hammering my old ass around... 😂 Sometimes it's too fast to f****** thing's dangerous
Hi guys, I heard from another TH-cam channel, the KTM parallel twin is 283 degrees. Is this true and, if so, what are the benefits if any?
You can just Google this. KTM uses 285° firing sequence.
Only reason I'm aware of is that it mimics the LC8 75° V-twin
Yes.. Fortnine puts out good stuff. But, not all of us need to be entertained to hold our attention.
Why don't you guys go get a parallel twin tattoo or something? 🤣
😂 What do you call a bagger racing league champion potato'ing at full RPM? ✊mashed
Love this podcast. Now, TH-cam…please, please, PLEASE stop with the feminine hygiene product commercials in what is primarily a men’s podcast!!! Sheesh!!
The Bogdanoff twins took over the world a long time ago.
Sigh.....I guess I am a dying breed in the minority.....miss the glory days of I4s, big Twins, high HP, high spec race replicas ruling the roads and showrooms. I just can't fall for all the parallel twin universal cost savings bikes thinly disguised as a sportbike/race bike. Old guys like me that want the most powerful high spec bikes from the factory I guess are being phased out. After all the manufacturers and the media drives what we buy and what we are told is "Good" It has never been about being able to ride a bike to it's potential, it is about having that potential there if we could.
No one wants electric motorbikes.
Two cylinders is all you need for maximum motorcycle pleasure never cared for transverse fours too high strung for me
I mean ok... But Fortnine did it better.
Ryan (Fortnine) does a great job explaining tech. Really great actually, but M Hoyer had me roaring with laughter, with his hand gestures bordering on lewd ,while describing the same thing. Enjoyed it all and great that Kevin is involved as well.
Are you trying to tell me that that boxer twin? I'm loving, is bringing back the type 1 VW's I drove in? The aircraft in hangers I glared 👀in?
Then why is the dirt bike I climb hills with sounding like the chainsaws I saw logs with?🪄 Primitive crackle🔥