Good discussion. A very mature assessment. I'm inclined to feel the choices may be guided by age rather than needs in the present time, with the plethora of extremely competent machines available to all types of brackets including price, capacity and performances. Yours is probably the only channel where I can rest assured that the speaker is not going to get carried away by sheer marketing hype. With all the stuff available on TH-cam, that's quite a relief. Thanks again.
I have two singles (RE Classic 500 and Husqvarna 401) and a twin (V-strom 650). While I've toured extensively on the RE, the Strom is more comfortable over distances. Regarding a previous video of yours, while the Strom is 71 hp, the increased horsepower also doesn't equate to a faster traveling speed, but an understressed mid-range, and a more leisurely cruising speed on a long highway stretches. It's not always about using the full power band, and that bike is charming in its own humble, reliable and unassuming way, drawing no attention to itself but taking excellent care of me along the way. While I've covered enormous distance on the RE, I've resigned myself to the fact the RE is best on B-Roads for a couple hours on a morning run, and the very light Husky (44hp) is best when the road turns to tight-cornered dirt in the mountains (which it does often on my end of the world). They all have their place, they each have an independent soul of their own (making me appreciate the character of each other along the way), and none are going anywhere.
I learn't on a 350cc Matchless single. It was an ex-WD rigid and girder fork bike bought from Pride and Clarke. That was an experience! No crash helmet and ex-raf leather goggles.. I used a towel as a scarf, and had a newspaper stuffed down my jacket as wind protection.
I'm of the mind that if it has a motor and two wheels (typically ) then its the perfect bike for that ride for that day. I well chose the road best suited to enjoy the ride.
I'll tell you from being across the pond in Texas, I loved multi cylinder bikes. Now at the end of my 30s I find myself gravitating to singles from my youth. I Just got back from a tour on my monderized 12v converted 79 XL125s frame with a Cg250 motor on it to Seattle WA from Dallas TX and back. I believe its the most fun I have had on a moto camping trip. It is a rattle trap at 70mph+. But is smooth at 60 or less. I will be taking more trips with that little bike. When I got into the moutains in Coloado I found out that bike is a little tractor. It just pulls and pulls up those mountains. It never quit and I never had to go lower than 3rd to get up an incline.
They are all good. Having owned fours and twins since 1980, I got an Aprilia Pegasso about ten years ago. It was a 1996 model with the 652cc Rotax motor. What a fantastic bike that was, lovely engine. I think the new Goldstar motor is descended from that engine.
For me it has always been the harmonics. if it is singing your tune. It will be a- part of you. More smiles per mile is gauge of satisfaction. Wish I could have had a BSA one lunger thumping down the country back roads. A dream unfulfilled.
I agree that there's no better or worse, just difference, and it's down to personal preference. I owned twins, flat fours and now a single. With the single Scram 411 however, I am loving the low down torque when pulling away from standstill. I can easily clear junctions and roundabouts quickly and easily. It's the first single I've owned and it makes me smile with its charm and character!
I have owned twins predominantly but for the last 2 years have had a Scram 411. This is my first single since an MZ back in the 90s and I love it! Best commuter bike I have owned. Although I am planning to get a touring bike in the near future, which will probably be a twin, the Scram will be staying.
@haxan6663 My Scram is a keeper also! So versatile, so much fun! I imagine commuting is a doddle on the urban street scrambler! Brilliant little bike. These long stroke, relaxed singles are almost like twins. But I don't blame you for wanting a twin also, with slightly longer legs for touring.
Absolute thumbs up for the J series. That unique, for a new bike, long stroke single is a real peach and I could listen to it ticking over all day - but I'm probably just weird like that 🙂
Mr. Fillingham- Well, that's great...now I am forced to somehow get a single to ride to see how it would compare to my twins. With sarcasm I say: Thanks Mr. Fillingham!
@@markellott5620 Yes, except, that at twin cylinders , if the pistons are moving in opposite direction, than the engine does not need the ballancing shaft so much, as at the single cylinder, because the forces are more equalizying. And: two cylinders can get you further than one cylinder , when one fails, the other can still run at least a while. Because when single cylinder stops, it alll stops. But single cylinder has Bigger Low-Torque ... so, it depends 4 what we need them. Pwy.
The answer is as always - it depends. Depends of the intended use. For smaller bikes up 500 cc, maybe up to 650 cc many characteristics points in single cylinder configuration, from 4-500 cc and upwards the characteristics of a twin becomes more and more obvious desirable.
I am 71, and my 28 year old singer cylinder Honda NX650 Dominator pulls like a train, and gets up easily to the French autoroute limit of 130 kph (80 mph) with 45 h.p. Basically the same 4 valve engine is still in production. At the same time its quite happy crossing rough ground. No ABS, Traction Control, Fuel Injection, Cruise Control. A beautiful sound from from the twin exhausts bring a lot of Smiles per Litre 😁.
I purchased my first V twin powered motorcycle earlier this year in the form of Moto Guzzi's V100 Mandello, it has more than enough power & torque and an abundance of character which I suspect you would enjoy Stuart, even if it was just for a test ride/review rather than an ownership proposition.
Good morning Stu. Another good video. Very thought provoking. I have owned twins and singles. The twins I’ve owned, apart from the Interceptor, have all been 360 degree parallel configuration. They all had kick starters. The singles were all kick start, long stroke engines. The twins were more viby but easier to start than the singles, which could bite if you got the starting technique wrong. I prefer the sound of an old single over today’s twins.
I have owned both. I still own both. Both are good IF they are the right ones. I currently have a 2013 Royal Enfield B5 Bullet 500. I love it. 500cc long stroke single. It is an undersquare engine, where the stroke is longer than the bore diameter. These are cool engine. The sound good, and they feel good. That is if they do not have any counterbalancers. Those ruin everything. My current twin is a Honda Rebel 250. It is a small displacement bike for around town and rural country roads. And it is somewhat fun to ride, only because it is so small. You can ride it full throttle a lot of the time. But the engine is drop dead boring and very buzzy. That's because it's an oversquare, or short stroke engine. It lacks any character at all. I have owned undersquare, long stroke twins, including three Yamaha XS650s and a 1966 Triumph Bonneville. I loved those bikes. You could hear and feel the thump thump thump from the engine. Undersquare engines run at lower rpm than oversquare engines, and have a lot more low end torque. They sound and feel a lot more mechanical. Which is what a motorcycle is supposed to do. But wait, there is more. There are also twins with different types of crankshafts. There are 360 degree cranks, where both pistons go up and down together. Most older British bikes and some older Japanese copies of British bikes, like the Yamaha XS650, have 360 degree cranks. Then there is the 180 degree crank, where when one piston is going up, the other is going down, like the pedals on a bicycle. These can run at higher rpms, but lack the wonderful sound and feel of a 360 degree engine. Most older Japanese bikes used that type of crank. Then there is the latest thing, which is what everybody seems to be using today, and that is the 270 degree crank. It's sort of halfway between the 180 and 360 degree cranks, and designed to be as smooth as possible, which is the absolute LAST thing I want on a motorcycle. And again, try to avoid ANY engine with a counterbalancer. The purpose of a counterbalancer is to make the engine as smooth as possible, so you will hopefully not even know there is an engine down there. If that is what you want, just get a battery powered bike. There is another kind of twin, and they come in different configurations as well. The V twin. Some are long stroke, some are short stroke, some use a single crankpin, and some have offset crankpins to give them perfect primary balance and make them smoother. They also come in different V angles. A short stroke 90 degree V twin with offset crankpins is smooth and boring. A long stroke, single crankpin, 45 degree V twin, with no counterbalancer, like my Harley Sportster 1200, has tons of character. It almost jumps off the floor while sitting in the garage idling. The front wheel shakes so much it is just a blur. It does smooth out some at higher rpms, but it still has loads of character. And it is an absolute blast to ride. It's like riding a jackhammer (the American name for an air hammer that is used to bust up concrete slabs) down the road. The feel and sound from that engine are almost euphoric. It is the best feeling, best sounding motorcycle I have ever ridden. th-cam.com/video/JG3XObtzTsE/w-d-xo.html tell me that doesn't sound good.
My XBR500 has a balance shaft, but still vibrates with bags of character, especially at 5k when it comes on cam, being a short stroke. Add some induction noise with pod filters for more character. I think my Kawa W650 is the last of the air cooled twins with a 360 crank. The bevel drive adds an extra note of agricultural aural delight. And listen out for the sound of an old XS750 triple! Fours - snores.
Morning Stuart, I've owned single, twin, and 4 cylinder bikes over the years, single cylinder nothing wrong with them at all, but with my Continental GT650 and my Triumph T120 these 270° parallel twins are so good, well my choice ☺️
The slow thud of a single is soothing to the ear, as opposed to the banshee howl of multi cylinder Bikes...where riding fast is almost obligatory. While l still owned a 650 Triton l did on occasion get the use of my friends Royal Enfield 500..The Enfield had nothing like the 'poke' of the Triton... had that lovely Crackly Triumph exhaust note when opened up...However for 'Going for a Ride' the Enfield was just glorious. Swinging along country roads, albeit in Spain, was relaxing and full of Motorcycling bliss.
Last winter, I bought myself a Suzuki GSX-R 600 from 1999 for essentially pocket change. It took me about a month to realize the bike was no fun. If I wanted to get any torque out of it, I had to stay in first gear, second at most. Getting it to go anywhere was a job, and the bike got in my way more than it made my riding enjoyable. So, I sold it, and bought an Aprillia v-twin. It makes about the same power, with two cylinders and 400cc more. But, there's power everywhere in the RPM range. I don't have to work to get anything out of the bike. It's much more fun, and I end the ride happy, instead of mentally tired. Thought this may be relevant.
It all depends on how the manufacturer has tuned the bike. I have a 1998 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer that has the slightly detuned engine from the Yamaha Thundercat. What Yamaha have done is to replace the four carbs with slightly smaller ones and adjusted the ECU. This drops the peak power from 98HP to 95HP and slightly raises the torque. More important though is that this spreads out the torque curve towards the lower revs. When I'm just cruising or taking a Sunday drive, I can upshift between as low as 3000-4000 rpm without any lackluster feeling and I'm not a small guy, measuring 190cm and weighing in at around 120kg. I'd say it has plenty of low down torque. Open up the throttle and you'll find that there is significantly more power available, but then it really moves.
I agree, i rode mostly twins all my life, i laughed at single cylinder bikes but when i rode a bmw R27 and a norton international and an Enfield i loved it, specially now i'm not young anymore, they're easy on the legs and my arthritic hands 😊
My last bike in my rocker days was a 61 Bonnie. Can't really remeber even thinking about vibration, but that was in 61/64. Once married, cars, kids etc. I raced Enduro till 91. Then in 94, bought first of 8 rs/rt bm's. I know have a 96, GS PD CLASSIC. Love it. Have tried other twins/ multi pot's but can't get on with them, to revvy. Now at 78 my GS has to go. To bulky to tall now. Couldn't imagine anything but a single. So when the GS goes, it's a Goldie for me. Can't wait for a thumper. Cheers Stuart.
Thank you for another superb video Stuart. I always learn so much from them, and this one is no exception. This sheds a little more light on why my Hunter 350 is such a kick in the pants to ride in urban areas, twisty backroads, and lower speed state highways. Just when I think I need more power to tackle our interstate system, I’m reminded how much I dislike riding them due to how incredibly boring they are to ride, and do away with the joy that riding gives me in general. I am still very much considering a twin to tackle much longer treks, but I don’t foresee it giving me any more joy than what my single cylinder 350 provides me at present.
Lol. This takes me back Stewart. My uncle had an old Panther, Sunbeam c/w side car, Triumph speed twin 650 and his 250 BSA that he used to ride to work in the summer. When his children grew up, his wife Maggie insisted on going to the Isle of Wight on the Panther. Why? She loved that single cylinder thud! Brilliant vid down memory lane Stewart 🤘. That said my love affair continues with my 650 RE Super Meteor. Safe happy riding sir 👍😊...
i took my 1978 yammy xs750 for a spin today, after i had been out on my classic 500, if you want to feel the difference from viby to smooth that is one huge difference.
I think the truth about vibration and efforts to try and reduce it as much as possible with motorbikes Struart is down to the damage it does to the nerves in the hands over years. Under the radar they dont want you to know about it, but in Engineering through 2000 to 2015 and on especially Health and Safety legislation has come down heavily on companies that require people to use tools that vibrate . All workers are assessed and one of the questions they ask is weather you ride a motor bike. If anyone finds their fingers going numb even sometimes off the bike, that can be the start of it. I keep away from the bikes that vibrate too much as I do have the early stages of this over the last 10 years but it seems to have gotten no worse. They call it HAVS. Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome, the medical term is Renauds Syndrome and some people can develop this that have never been involved with vibrating machinery or tools. People just need to be aware of this it can be very painful once it takes hold. It is a condition it is not a disease as some silly sites state.
Best bike I ever owned was a single cylinder BMW F650. It was light, made 50 horsepower, and would scoot from 0 to 110 mph in no time, but no faster. On the freeway (California) it ran very well at 70, and I once did a 1000 day on it (not on purpose) without problems except for a slightly numb behind. It also got 66 mpg. US gallons at that.
Owdo. Some interesting parallels in our lives, work and transportation. In 1981 I was on a 100cc Yamaha, come rain come shine in leather hacket and jeans,, riding through winter getting ice forming on my knees and on my knuckkes, and thinking nothing of it It's probably why I'm a but arthritic now! It's a complete illusion that you need large engines to cover big distances. So many people miss so many opportunities, because they are put off by incorrect, popular opinion. Ride safe 👍
Stuart, you need to take a ride on a 2012 Honda CBR250r. I have two 4 cylinder bikes and two single cylinder bikes. Most recently is my purchase of the "250" which is water-cooled, fuel injected, DOHC, four valve, single cylinder and sports a balance shaft and a 6 speed transmission. It can get 77MPG, has plenty, of power, starts absolutely instantly, and is smoother than you can ever believe a single cylinder bike could be. At my age (76) and state of health I am finding "lighter is better" and this little wonder is a joy to ride.
I've just picked up my Himalayan. My only criticism so far is that the tyres are far too road biased. Okay for fire roads, but won't cope too well in the mud, so I'm fitting 50/50 tyres because I want to do some more technical off roading on it. The indicator repeaters could do with being a bit bigger. But what a cracking little adventure bike.
The two bikes I use regularly are a 1995 Yamaha 600 Divi and a 1992 Honda 650 Dominator. The 4 cylinder Divi has more power and is more economical than the 650 single of the Dominator. I enjoy them both for different reasons. The torque of the 650 single and upright riding position and wide bars make it an ideal around town and country lane bike. The most reliable, strangely enough is the 4 cylinder Divi but they are known to be a true work horse. I have no interest in the newer bikes. I just dont have to. What I have suits my needs perfectly but Iove to watch your channel and hear your opinions on all sorts of topics. Keep up the great work, safe riding Stuart 🙏
Up until 2.5 years ago, my bike was 2016 Bullet 500 which was OK, just barely OK. After a crash that rendered the Bullet too expensive to fix (and me with metal screws and a plate in my left leg), I bought a INT 650 to replace it. On my daily ride, averaging about 30 miles/day (when not raining), I hit 70 (+ -) on the straights and sometimes (but rarely) I take it on the highway where I do sustained riding of 75+ for 15-20 miles at a time. On the occasional weekend trip, I'll go perhaps 120 miles, round trip, on our scenic secondary roads, including stretches of gravel road. I agree, ~50 HP is about as much as an air cooled engine should have for proper cooling, but the INT's level of performance is perfect for my style of riding and I almost never feel the need to use full throttle or wind it up past 4500-5000 RPM. I have, to date, about 25,000 miles on the bike. I'll take your word for it that the more modern single cylinder engines have less vibration than my Bullet had and are a big improvement over the older technology engines, but I won't own another single cylinder bike.
fun fact! RE purposely designed the 2009 UCE engine to retain some vibration as they were worried making it too smooth would alienate their traditional indian customer base.
@@stuartfillingham Ha, ha. I didn't know that. Well, I guess being wedded too closely to the past can get your customers all shook up. I'm indeed glad that the 650 didn't come from a vibrating legacy and that it is remarkably smooth. By the way Stuart, that was some lovely English countryside in your last video. Hope you are having a good morning. Bit late here.
Thank you for a nice video. I also love singles for their characteristics and I currently own a Suzuki Savage LS-650. The low end torque is amazing and it has a peak torque around 3000 rpm. A couple of other Japanese big singles I like is the Yamaha SRX 600 and Yamaha SZR 660.
Four cylinders - "a bit soulless". Love it! Of the bikes I've owned, 9 (including my 3 most recent purchases) have been singles, 3 have been twins and only one has been a 4-cylinder. Love my single-cylinder bikes. My 2022 GSX250R is a single and the salesman tried to give me a spiel about why I should consider a single rather than a twin or a four-cylinder and I cut him short, told him he had me at 'it's a single'.
Very interesting, Stuart! I completely agree with you on four cylinder bikes. I've owned a Kawasaki GT 550 four cylinder, after having ridden a Yamaha XV 920 for fifteen years. The Yamaha had lots of character. I got rid of it because of the rather high fuel consumption, and very small tank of 14,5 litres. The Kawasaki had 21 litres, but was, to me, soulless. Last year I bought a forty years old XV 500. It looks a lot like the 920, but is much smaller, with very easy handling, and moving in and out of the garage is child's play. I'm 62 years old now, and want to ride my motorbike until at least 100! This Yamaha weighs in at only 185 kilo's, with fuel. I think this engine is well nigh perfect for me. 49 horses, and little vibrations. Very good mid range, and an extra sporty kick above 6.000 revs. It pulls really well from 2.500 revs onwards. Fuel consumption is also quite good, at about 23 kms to the litre, in the mountains of Portugal. So, for me, not to large capacity v-twins are the way to go: very narrow engines with not to many vibrations. Lots of character, and extremely good looking and sounding (which is really important to me as well)! Please keep up the good work Stuart, I really love your channel.
I love riding both my single and twin REs. They have different characteristics for sure but both are great for producing miles of smiles. If only RE would produce a V twin which I have found to produce the best results in terms of torque and use able power. Enjoyed your video as always.
I don't own one anymore, but my favorite engine sound is definitely a V twin. As you say, great torque and power. Not as lumpy as a single, which I've found a bit tiresome over a distance. Maybe a bit thirsty though?
Another brilliant video ❤. I have 2 twins and a single bike, but I always prefer riding my single bike at this time, I like to compare both but the single is lighter and more fun! In fact I’m considering buying a BSA Scrambler! 😊
It depends what you want to ride for. I have singe.twins and four cylingders. The Four was great so smooth fast and powoerful. But I lived the single best as it was pure motor you can feel it when evewr you go out. Some time it will go up and fast other times it will be sluggish and relaxed.
I just got a Triumph Scrambler 400X and Love it, it’s a new BSA Goldstar to me. I just rode it into the high mountain up and down gravel roads that I hunted on this spring and enjoyed it much more than I did on my Kawasaki KLR 650. It’s so agile and light. I don’t know about the interstate yet as its still in the break in stage.
Great vid Stuart. Best one I've seen explaining the difference between a single and a twin. My view is that which you prefer depends entirely on your type of riding and how you ride. Having ridden the modern Goldstar and Interceptor, I prefer the latter. Its not about how fast you go but the experience of using the power. The Goldstar as a single runs out of revs really quickly and you need to kick up the gears to avoid hitting the rev limiter. Not so good for faster overtaking. I also found it lumpy for city riding in heavy traffic. Both bikes have little vibration but I prefer the power delivery of the twin. It suits me when riding enthusiasticly. Single fine for pottering, riding to work, cheap transport. Twin better for faster rideouts, longer touring. Just a personal view. I have a much bigger tripple so maybe that's why. All the best.
My last bike was a 4 cylinder motorcycle. The parallel twin motorcycle I'm riding now in some ways is similar. They both have higher rev limits; the Yamaha 4 cylinder at 10 krpm and the twin at 9.5 krpm. They need to spin hard for power but ar mellow enough in mid power band. They're both somewhat quiet at modest speeds. Both can cruise at about 85 mph for quite a while regardless of weather with sufficient fuel. Singles I've ridden are a bit of a mixed bag. Most were for off road at much lower speeds. They were single task machines. I prefer the twin or the Triumph triple for a road machine. Much more civilized, smoother with more power. I do ride fast roads often enough that it's a consideration.
A very interesting video, Stuart. During my 62 years of motorcycling I have experienced all types of engine configuration, but my favourite is and always has been my 1958 Velocette Venom in every respect.
Really agree with your assessment of twin vs single. I'm seriously considering a new Royal Enfield 450 adventure bike, so I'm going to be VERY interested in your coming road test!
Love singles. Dirt bike rider at heart.. Love twins too, especially V twins. Triples are incredible, V fours probably perfect. Only have had one I4 in all my days 🙂 and never more than that. Phtt.. they are all great! Good post this Stu, love it!
A friend of mine had a Honda 500cc single cylinder motorbike. You’d hear him coming long before you saw him. The cylinder was about the size of a tomato juice can. It was fast. Not Katana fast, but it was peppy. It was a dual purpose bike,so it could go places you would t want to take a V65.
You've nailed it Stuart. I love both engine configurations as you do. But the difference in feel between singles and twins has narrowed due to the engineering innovations of recent decades. Now, you have to jump on a multi to really appreciate what a different engine configuration can do in terms of engine feel and performance characteristics. The single has always provided that more visceral riding experience than twins or fours or more can do and the larger the cylinder capacity, the more you get back in terms of rider experience. Having ridden British singles in the 80's. I can attest to the notion that a 650 single back then would have been a truly fearsome and hard to get on with beast compared to the Gold Star of the modern era. The modern BSA company have done a great job packaging nostalgia with engineering that is satisfying to ride and also user friendly and easy to live with.
Great comparison sir! One exception I found to the typical power characteristics is a GS650 Beemer, available used these days. While it has a sufficiency of low end power, it mainly loves to rev and accelerates strongly, I have from a reliable if not recommended source, above 70 mph while willing to putt around town in traffic allowing for its 430-some pound weight.
I’m in a slobbery love affair w my C350. But “C650Twin” already exits…an Interceptor, but w new drapes. I encourage RE to issue a C450 single, and keep the dash, mudguards and straight peashooter. Thanks for your wonderful videos and commentary, Sir!
I started riding on a Ducati 450 Desmo single over 50 years ago. I went on to ride many many brands and engine configurations. As an old rider I’ve now returned to the simplicity of a single. A Kawasaki KLR650 single. I can do any type of riding within reason, even long touring. Loaded with gear it gets 56 mpg. Good video.
I think the arrival of the CF Moto has had a big impact on the appreciation for the Hymalayan. There's real competition in that sector right now. I'm setting up a bike tour business in Almeria Spain. I've just ordered 6x Voge 800 and when it came to an easier riding machine I went for 4x CF Moto. For bang for buck I went Chinese. Now its the risk I've taken as these bikes will be used purely for business. So reliability will be the key here . I have to say Voge and CF moto of Spain have been brilliant and very supportive.
I have an inline 4 (KZ1000A2), a couple v-twins (FXRS and Sporty) and a single-pot 650 (KLR). I gotta admit, I like the way the KlR makes power. Fun and simple; that’s a hard recipe to beat.
It the kind of music one likes, best singles THUMP like the legendary Royal Enfield Bullet with a thru pipe exhaust which is street illegal! And the parallel twin exhaust of a triumph or harleydavidson V especially when one blips the throttle !! The 3-4 cylinder howl is at the other end of the music spectrum.
I appreciate the style and detailed explanation. As you mentioned, it all depends on the roads. In Italy, for example, in addition to beautiful and scenic mountain passes, you often have to deal with sections of highways and motorways, where the speed limit is 110 and 130 km/h (which are higher than 70 mph). So, having a bike that performs well at low RPMs might make it too slow when overtaking, forcing you to adopt a slower and more demanding riding style because you need to carefully calculate the chance to overtake, for example. This is a significant issue, and that's why having a bike with at least 50 hp is preferable. At those power levels, a single-cylinder engine starts to vibrate, and there isn't much choice of bikes in that category. Some models, like the SWM Superdual I recently tested, tend to vibrate a lot at low revs, forcing you to constantly shift gears, which makes the ride somewhat tedious.
Thanks for the video! I think like you that character is necessary for enjoying a bike that doesn't do the job of a today's plastic scooter to bring you downtown for work... My 411 manage to have her own character with her 20 ish horspower engine and I love it very much today... I will still try to put Hitchcock's camshaft in it next winter (today we have snow at 4500 ft !) But 20-30 years ago I would have compared it to my XT550 and judge the RE as... weak... Looking forward your 450 analysis 😉
A direct comparison between the Triumph Speed 400 single, and the RE Shotgun twin I could do this spring, driving the same 25-minute circuit, was very interesting. The single had a bit more grunt at the lowest revs, and the twin a bit more at higher revs. What to my opinion speaks most in favour of the twin is the smoother sound. The bam-bam-bam from a single is after an extended ride quite exhausting for the ears. But the engine performance curve of the single makes it somewhat more interesting to ride!
Must say I loved my Suzuki GT 125 and Yam RD 125 twins, both 2 strokes. Sod the the torque and fuel economy, just come on and feel the NOIZZZE. good video.
An interesting topic Stuart, like yourself I have a few MC's and have been test riding others in order to purchase another. Having recently ridden the J series RE 350, the BSA 650, and the CF Moto 700 Adventure, (what a great value MC that was, Chinese built with KYB suspension, Bosch ignition, Pirelli tyres, with a bored out Kawasaki 650 designed engine). However, having never ridden a Moto Guzzi, I test rode a V7 Stone 850 and bought one immediately, loads of torque, character and better build quality. 😎
One thing I've noticed comparing my Classic to my GT is that I'll probably never get a speeding ticket with the Classic. Looking for the constables are the last thing on my mind leaving only the enjoyment of the ride. I still enjoy the speed and refinement of my BMW R1250RS when traveling longer distances, but throttle control is sometimes more of a concern. Lol. 👍👍
I used to have a Kawasaki Vulcan 500. It was a cruiser that used the parallel twin from the ninja 500. But Kawasaki made changes to it. They used smaller carbs, lower compression, different cams, a heavier flywheel, and a different sprockets ratio. Some would say they ruined the performance but it was remarkably good. Lower end torque was good. And the top end was much better than the Honda 750 Aero that I bought later. I toured everywhere. My only complaint was the rear shock was too stiff but was ok with a passenger.
I think I have it covered .. a RE 650 twin shotgun for the open roads and highway, a RE 350 single hunter for urban and countryside, and a 83 Yamaha TT250 single for a bit of classic off-roading.
My and my twin brother are in the younger age group for motorcyclists, being twins of course we couldn't have the same bike so I got the BSA gold star and he got the Royal Enfield Continental GT. We've both ridden eachothers bikes and agree they both have fantastic engines. I recently did a trip on the Nc500 with my gold star and I think I coudn't have brought a better bike bar a dedicated touring bike.
I also moved away from multi-cylinder bikes over the years toward single cylinder thumpers. I liked the single primarily for simplicity and the visceral feel and torque. Then I discovered the Kawasaki W800 and I was enchanted with the feel of that twin, both for the feel and the sound. I'll credit that mainly to the Brit twin style firing order. I love it!
Hi there! I love a bike that doesn't swallow gallons like a regular Pub visitor. So I got the BMW F800. Unfortunately l'm also growing older and get more joint issues. So the vibes of this Boxer-Imitation kill my wrists after less than 2 hours at 80 (130-140kph) or more (let's say I can ride in Germany regularly...). So 4 cylinder it is for me, for my wrists and their exciting top-end rush.
I think ideally one should have two bikes. A single for economy and getting to work but a large twin for thrills. I have a 400 single for commuting and an 1800 twin for thrills and serious mileage.
It's a question I often ask myself. I have a single, a V-twin and a V4. However, I'm thinking of a triple 😄. I think it goes back to the old saying, "the best bike is the one you've got." There's too much social media influence, even pressure to have the biggest and bestest. My single is my go to for everything except distance and that's only because it's a 310cc and not happy on the autoroute.
Two bikes Ive always regretted selling on, was a BMW R100RS and a 900SS bevel drive Ducati...They both had lovely exhaust notes, a distinctive heart beat, plus you could ride in the sweet spot to avoid vibration. l now own a Triumph Street Triple 675...its pretty smooth, sounds amazing when ''given it some wellie'' Handles beautifully when on twisty roads...The truth is we need more than one Bike don't we....
For me it is all about the character of the bike. Had a few strong yamahas with no character but very strong and fast. Than a few moto guzzi with loads of character. These were twins. Now the little classic 350, what a wonderfull bike, but.... for me to smooth ha ha. So now i am looking for the classic 500 to get more vibration and character of the old days. I need that feeling . Thanks Stu for this video. Greetings from Holland
The set up…. I mostly listen to your videos, occasionally glancing at the video content. The punch line…. Sometimes when I look there is a truck coming at you IN THE WRONG LANE!😮 Every time it scares the crap out of me for a second. 😂😅 Well, anyhow, hello from America!
I'm a septugeneaian and have had everything from a Gilera 124 to an Ninja ZX14. And at one time,owned four bikes at the same time. All those motorcycles had a distinct character and I loved them all. So, stay in the saddle for as long as you can , and ride and own as many motorcycles as you can, be they single, twin, four or a six cylinder.
In my opinion, for smaller displacement bikes, a single is just fine. But as you go up a twin makes better sense IF you’re riding on hiways or making long trips. As I said , my opinion is, the twin will be better balanced , reducing vibes at speed and each smaller cylinder will have to work less hard to maintain speed and power. People love 500cc singles, big torquey thumpers, but they vibrate at higher speeds to the point of fatigue to me. I remember when 100, 125, 250s etc came in twins and the twins just seemed smoother. When the 350 and 450 twins came along they were surprisingly smooth and powerful for their size. I liken it to outboard motors on a boat, living by the coast. One large outboard, say 250-300hp works well, but two smaller , say 140-150 hp motors will work less hard making power. You won’t go twice as fast with twins, but the motor will have two cylinders sharing the load, same as outboards. Add to that a twin can lose power in one cylinder, say a coil or plug goes out, you can still limp to a safe spot on one, like with outboards. I’ve limped home on one cylinder several times over the years. Again, just a personal take.
OK, I have to admit to being a motorcycle junkie. I love singles, twins & triples. The diverse qualities of their distinctive power delivery are very engaging for me. Which I prefer really depends upon my mood. I have tried 4 & 6 cylinder bikes too, but find them overly heavy & complicated, as well as expensive to keep.
Thanks again Stu. Greetings from Canada. I think they have figured out how to make singles vibrate much less due to balance shafts. Having said that I have ridden singles, twins, thrillers, fours and six cylinder bikes and they all have their place. Oh, I remember the old BSA 650 twin shaking a lot too. Moved on to 4 cylinder Japanese bikes. Hiways here are much faster.
The two favourite bikes that l have owned, over the past 70+ years were, a Matchless 500 single and, a wonderful Honda Goldwing! Where does this place me, on the graph? Keep up your good work but, adjust, to suit your health requirements!!
I love my Classic 350, the sedate nature of the small single, together with the fluttery exhaust note, are in keeping with the style and attitude of the motorcycle. I see other owners on this platform and dark corners of social media swapping key components for various Carlos Fandango bit and bobs and wonder whether they’ve just bought the wrong bike
Good discussion. A very mature assessment. I'm inclined to feel the choices may be guided by age rather than needs in the present time, with the plethora of extremely competent machines available to all types of brackets including price, capacity and performances. Yours is probably the only channel where I can rest assured that the speaker is not going to get carried away by sheer marketing hype. With all the stuff available on TH-cam, that's quite a relief. Thanks again.
I have two singles (RE Classic 500 and Husqvarna 401) and a twin (V-strom 650). While I've toured extensively on the RE, the Strom is more comfortable over distances. Regarding a previous video of yours, while the Strom is 71 hp, the increased horsepower also doesn't equate to a faster traveling speed, but an understressed mid-range, and a more leisurely cruising speed on a long highway stretches. It's not always about using the full power band, and that bike is charming in its own humble, reliable and unassuming way, drawing no attention to itself but taking excellent care of me along the way. While I've covered enormous distance on the RE, I've resigned myself to the fact the RE is best on B-Roads for a couple hours on a morning run, and the very light Husky (44hp) is best when the road turns to tight-cornered dirt in the mountains (which it does often on my end of the world). They all have their place, they each have an independent soul of their own (making me appreciate the character of each other along the way), and none are going anywhere.
Engine size and HP have long been something of "false flags" reviewers and manufacturers enjoy waving.
HP is torque multiplied by RPM. Horses never means less strain on the engine. torque does.
I rode a Panther 650 single throughout the eighties and covered over 100,000 miles without any discomfort compared to my previous BSA A10.
I learn't on a 350cc Matchless single. It was an ex-WD rigid and girder fork bike bought from Pride and Clarke. That was an experience! No crash helmet and ex-raf leather goggles.. I used a towel as a scarf, and had a newspaper stuffed down my jacket as wind protection.
I'm of the mind that if it has a motor and two wheels (typically ) then its the perfect bike for that ride for that day. I well chose the road best suited to enjoy the ride.
Out of my two bikes, the T100 and the Classic 350, I ride the 350 almost twice as much.
that seems to be a common story!
I'll tell you from being across the pond in Texas, I loved multi cylinder bikes. Now at the end of my 30s I find myself gravitating to singles from my youth. I Just got back from a tour on my monderized 12v converted 79 XL125s frame with a Cg250 motor on it to Seattle WA from Dallas TX and back. I believe its the most fun I have had on a moto camping trip. It is a rattle trap at 70mph+. But is smooth at 60 or less. I will be taking more trips with that little bike. When I got into the moutains in Coloado I found out that bike is a little tractor. It just pulls and pulls up those mountains. It never quit and I never had to go lower than 3rd to get up an incline.
They are all good. Having owned fours and twins since 1980, I got an Aprilia Pegasso about ten years ago. It was a 1996 model with the 652cc Rotax motor. What a fantastic bike that was, lovely engine. I think the new Goldstar motor is descended from that engine.
For me it has always been the harmonics.
if it is singing your tune.
It will be a- part of you.
More smiles per mile
is gauge of satisfaction.
Wish I could have had a
BSA one lunger thumping
down the country back roads.
A dream unfulfilled.
I agree that there's no better or worse, just difference, and it's down to personal preference. I owned twins, flat fours and now a single. With the single Scram 411 however, I am loving the low down torque when pulling away from standstill. I can easily clear junctions and roundabouts quickly and easily. It's the first single I've owned and it makes me smile with its charm and character!
I have owned twins predominantly but for the last 2 years have had a Scram 411. This is my first single since an MZ back in the 90s and I love it! Best commuter bike I have owned. Although I am planning to get a touring bike in the near future, which will probably be a twin, the Scram will be staying.
@haxan6663 My Scram is a keeper also! So versatile, so much fun! I imagine commuting is a doddle on the urban street scrambler! Brilliant little bike. These long stroke, relaxed singles are almost like twins. But I don't blame you for wanting a twin also, with slightly longer legs for touring.
Absolute thumbs up for the J series. That unique, for a new bike, long stroke single is a real peach and I could listen to it ticking over all day - but I'm probably just weird like that 🙂
Honda India makes a very similar long stroke engine for their Highness 350 bike!
Mr. Fillingham- Well, that's great...now I am forced to somehow get a single to ride to see how it would compare to my twins. With sarcasm I say: Thanks Mr. Fillingham!
Nice video. You’re getting really good.
Twin is better than a single because I own a twin, and not a single!
I own both. Each has its advantages and own individual flavour.
@@markellott5620 Yes, except, that at twin cylinders , if the pistons are moving in opposite direction, than the engine does not need the ballancing shaft so much, as at the single cylinder, because the forces are more equalizying. And: two cylinders can get you further than one cylinder , when one fails, the other can still run at least a while. Because when single cylinder stops, it alll stops. But single cylinder has Bigger Low-Torque ... so, it depends 4 what we need them. Pwy.
@bustjanzupan1074 My solution is to have a single, two twins, and a four.
The answer is as always - it depends.
Depends of the intended use.
For smaller bikes up 500 cc, maybe up to 650 cc many characteristics points in single cylinder configuration, from 4-500 cc and upwards the characteristics of a twin becomes more and more obvious desirable.
He's been really good! Where have you been?
I am 71, and my 28 year old singer cylinder Honda NX650 Dominator pulls like a train, and gets up easily to the French autoroute limit of 130 kph (80 mph) with 45 h.p. Basically the same 4 valve engine is still in production. At the same time its quite happy crossing rough ground. No ABS, Traction Control, Fuel Injection, Cruise Control. A beautiful sound from from the twin exhausts bring a lot of Smiles per Litre 😁.
I purchased my first V twin powered motorcycle earlier this year in the form of Moto Guzzi's V100 Mandello, it has more than enough power & torque and an abundance of character which I suspect you would enjoy Stuart, even if it was just for a test ride/review rather than an ownership proposition.
Thank you for your views. Good listeners can really benefit from your views derived from some much riding. Beautiful bikes, great video!
Good morning Stu. Another good video. Very thought provoking. I have owned twins and singles. The twins I’ve owned, apart from the Interceptor, have all been 360 degree parallel configuration. They all had kick starters. The singles were all kick start, long stroke engines. The twins were more viby but easier to start than the singles, which could bite if you got the starting technique wrong. I prefer the sound of an old single over today’s twins.
I have owned both. I still own both. Both are good IF they are the right ones. I currently have a 2013 Royal Enfield B5 Bullet 500. I love it. 500cc long stroke single. It is an undersquare engine, where the stroke is longer than the bore diameter. These are cool engine. The sound good, and they feel good. That is if they do not have any counterbalancers. Those ruin everything. My current twin is a Honda Rebel 250. It is a small displacement bike for around town and rural country roads. And it is somewhat fun to ride, only because it is so small. You can ride it full throttle a lot of the time. But the engine is drop dead boring and very buzzy. That's because it's an oversquare, or short stroke engine. It lacks any character at all. I have owned undersquare, long stroke twins, including three Yamaha XS650s and a 1966 Triumph Bonneville. I loved those bikes. You could hear and feel the thump thump thump from the engine. Undersquare engines run at lower rpm than oversquare engines, and have a lot more low end torque. They sound and feel a lot more mechanical. Which is what a motorcycle is supposed to do. But wait, there is more. There are also twins with different types of crankshafts. There are 360 degree cranks, where both pistons go up and down together. Most older British bikes and some older Japanese copies of British bikes, like the Yamaha XS650, have 360 degree cranks. Then there is the 180 degree crank, where when one piston is going up, the other is going down, like the pedals on a bicycle. These can run at higher rpms, but lack the wonderful sound and feel of a 360 degree engine. Most older Japanese bikes used that type of crank. Then there is the latest thing, which is what everybody seems to be using today, and that is the 270 degree crank. It's sort of halfway between the 180 and 360 degree cranks, and designed to be as smooth as possible, which is the absolute LAST thing I want on a motorcycle. And again, try to avoid ANY engine with a counterbalancer. The purpose of a counterbalancer is to make the engine as smooth as possible, so you will hopefully not even know there is an engine down there. If that is what you want, just get a battery powered bike.
There is another kind of twin, and they come in different configurations as well. The V twin. Some are long stroke, some are short stroke, some use a single crankpin, and some have offset crankpins to give them perfect primary balance and make them smoother. They also come in different V angles. A short stroke 90 degree V twin with offset crankpins is smooth and boring. A long stroke, single crankpin, 45 degree V twin, with no counterbalancer, like my Harley Sportster 1200, has tons of character. It almost jumps off the floor while sitting in the garage idling. The front wheel shakes so much it is just a blur. It does smooth out some at higher rpms, but it still has loads of character. And it is an absolute blast to ride. It's like riding a jackhammer (the American name for an air hammer that is used to bust up concrete slabs) down the road. The feel and sound from that engine are almost euphoric. It is the best feeling, best sounding motorcycle I have ever ridden. th-cam.com/video/JG3XObtzTsE/w-d-xo.html tell me that doesn't sound good.
My XBR500 has a balance shaft, but still vibrates with bags of character, especially at 5k when it comes on cam, being a short stroke. Add some induction noise with pod filters for more character. I think my Kawa W650 is the last of the air cooled twins with a 360 crank. The bevel drive adds an extra note of agricultural aural delight. And listen out for the sound of an old XS750 triple! Fours - snores.
I appreciate your format, originality and analysis. Also your inland yet clear spoken English.
I have had all sorts of engine types and the single is the best.
Morning Stuart,
I've owned single, twin, and 4 cylinder bikes over the years, single cylinder nothing wrong with them at all, but with my Continental GT650 and my Triumph T120 these 270° parallel twins are so good, well my choice ☺️
The slow thud of a single is soothing to the ear, as opposed to the banshee howl of multi cylinder Bikes...where riding fast is almost obligatory. While l still owned a 650 Triton l did on occasion get the use of my friends Royal Enfield 500..The Enfield had nothing like the 'poke' of the Triton... had that lovely Crackly Triumph exhaust note when opened up...However for 'Going for a Ride' the Enfield was just glorious. Swinging along country roads, albeit in Spain, was relaxing and full of Motorcycling bliss.
Brilliant video as always Stuart and a very interesting comparison, love the BSA more and more every time I see it 😃👍🏻
Last winter, I bought myself a Suzuki GSX-R 600 from 1999 for essentially pocket change. It took me about a month to realize the bike was no fun. If I wanted to get any torque out of it, I had to stay in first gear, second at most. Getting it to go anywhere was a job, and the bike got in my way more than it made my riding enjoyable.
So, I sold it, and bought an Aprillia v-twin. It makes about the same power, with two cylinders and 400cc more. But, there's power everywhere in the RPM range. I don't have to work to get anything out of the bike. It's much more fun, and I end the ride happy, instead of mentally tired.
Thought this may be relevant.
Same. The bike was so deadening of joy that I gave up motorcycling for two decades. I now have a twin Triumph T120.
It all depends on how the manufacturer has tuned the bike. I have a 1998 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer that has the slightly detuned engine from the Yamaha Thundercat. What Yamaha have done is to replace the four carbs with slightly smaller ones and adjusted the ECU. This drops the peak power from 98HP to 95HP and slightly raises the torque. More important though is that this spreads out the torque curve towards the lower revs. When I'm just cruising or taking a Sunday drive, I can upshift between as low as 3000-4000 rpm without any lackluster feeling and I'm not a small guy, measuring 190cm and weighing in at around 120kg. I'd say it has plenty of low down torque. Open up the throttle and you'll find that there is significantly more power available, but then it really moves.
Gotta stir that gearbox like a food mixer!!
I agree, i rode mostly twins all my life, i laughed at single cylinder bikes but when i rode a bmw R27 and a norton international and an Enfield i loved it, specially now i'm not young anymore, they're easy on the legs and my arthritic hands 😊
My last bike in my rocker days was a 61 Bonnie. Can't really remeber even thinking about vibration, but that was in 61/64. Once married, cars, kids etc. I raced Enduro till 91. Then in 94, bought first of 8 rs/rt bm's. I know have a 96, GS PD CLASSIC. Love it. Have tried other twins/ multi pot's but can't get on with them, to revvy. Now at 78 my GS has to go. To bulky to tall now. Couldn't imagine anything but a single. So when the GS goes, it's a Goldie for me. Can't wait for a thumper. Cheers Stuart.
Thank you for another superb video Stuart. I always learn so much from them, and this one is no exception. This sheds a little more light on why my Hunter 350 is such a kick in the pants to ride in urban areas, twisty backroads, and lower speed state highways. Just when I think I need more power to tackle our interstate system, I’m reminded how much I dislike riding them due to how incredibly boring they are to ride, and do away with the joy that riding gives me in general. I am still very much considering a twin to tackle much longer treks, but I don’t foresee it giving me any more joy than what my single cylinder 350 provides me at present.
Lol. This takes me back Stewart. My uncle had an old Panther, Sunbeam c/w side car, Triumph speed twin 650 and his 250 BSA that he used to ride to work in the summer. When his children grew up, his wife Maggie insisted on going to the Isle of Wight on the Panther. Why? She loved that single cylinder thud! Brilliant vid down memory lane Stewart 🤘. That said my love affair continues with my 650 RE Super Meteor. Safe happy riding sir 👍😊...
i took my 1978 yammy xs750 for a spin today, after i had been out on my classic 500, if you want to feel the difference from viby to smooth that is one huge difference.
I think the truth about vibration and efforts to try and reduce it as much as possible with motorbikes Struart is down to the damage it does to the nerves in the hands over years. Under the radar they dont want you to know about it, but in Engineering through 2000 to 2015 and on especially Health and Safety legislation has come down heavily on companies that require people to use tools that vibrate . All workers are assessed and one of the questions they ask is weather you ride a motor bike. If anyone finds their fingers going numb even sometimes off the bike, that can be the start of it. I keep away from the bikes that vibrate too much as I do have the early stages of this over the last 10 years but it seems to have gotten no worse. They call it HAVS. Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome, the medical term is Renauds Syndrome and some people can develop this that have never been involved with vibrating machinery or tools. People just need to be aware of this it can be very painful once it takes hold. It is a condition it is not a disease as some silly sites state.
Best bike I ever owned was a single cylinder BMW F650. It was light, made 50 horsepower, and would scoot from 0 to 110 mph in no time, but no faster. On the freeway (California) it ran very well at 70, and I once did a 1000 day on it (not on purpose) without problems except for a slightly numb behind. It also got 66 mpg. US gallons at that.
Owdo.
Some interesting parallels in our lives, work and transportation.
In 1981 I was on a 100cc Yamaha, come rain come shine in leather hacket and jeans,, riding through winter getting ice forming on my knees and on my knuckkes, and thinking nothing of it
It's probably why I'm a but arthritic now!
It's a complete illusion that you need large engines to cover big distances.
So many people miss so many opportunities, because they are put off by incorrect, popular opinion.
Ride safe 👍
here, here!
Stuart, you need to take a ride on a 2012 Honda CBR250r. I have two 4 cylinder bikes and two single cylinder bikes. Most recently is my purchase of the "250" which is water-cooled, fuel injected, DOHC, four valve, single cylinder and sports a balance shaft and a 6 speed transmission. It can get 77MPG, has plenty, of power, starts absolutely instantly, and is smoother than you can ever believe a single cylinder bike could be. At my age (76) and state of health I am finding "lighter is better" and this little wonder is a joy to ride.
I agree with you modern 650 twins suffer from vibes a lot all except the sv 650 which in my opinion has got them all beat
I've just picked up my Himalayan. My only criticism so far is that the tyres are far too road biased. Okay for fire roads, but won't cope too well in the mud, so I'm fitting 50/50 tyres because I want to do some more technical off roading on it. The indicator repeaters could do with being a bit bigger. But what a cracking little adventure bike.
I've always loved singles, because the exhaust is like a heartbeat, it is alive and I'm tuned into it, plus singles are so much easier to maintain.
The two bikes I use regularly are a 1995 Yamaha 600 Divi and a 1992 Honda 650 Dominator. The 4 cylinder Divi has more power and is more economical than the 650 single of the Dominator. I enjoy them both for different reasons. The torque of the 650 single and upright riding position and wide bars make it an ideal around town and country lane bike. The most reliable, strangely enough is the 4 cylinder Divi but they are known to be a true work horse. I have no interest in the newer bikes. I just dont have to. What I have suits my needs perfectly but Iove to watch your channel and hear your opinions on all sorts of topics. Keep up the great work, safe riding Stuart 🙏
Up until 2.5 years ago, my bike was 2016 Bullet 500 which was OK, just barely OK. After a crash that rendered the Bullet too expensive to fix (and me with metal screws and a plate in my left leg), I bought a INT 650 to replace it. On my daily ride, averaging about 30 miles/day (when not raining), I hit 70 (+ -) on the straights and sometimes (but rarely) I take it on the highway where I do sustained riding of 75+ for 15-20 miles at a time. On the occasional weekend trip, I'll go perhaps 120 miles, round trip, on our scenic secondary roads, including stretches of gravel road. I agree, ~50 HP is about as much as an air cooled engine should have for proper cooling, but the INT's level of performance is perfect for my style of riding and I almost never feel the need to use full throttle or wind it up past 4500-5000 RPM. I have, to date, about 25,000 miles on the bike. I'll take your word for it that the more modern single cylinder engines have less vibration than my Bullet had and are a big improvement over the older technology engines, but I won't own another single cylinder bike.
fun fact! RE purposely designed the 2009 UCE engine to retain some vibration as they were worried making it too smooth would alienate their traditional indian customer base.
@@stuartfillingham Ha, ha. I didn't know that. Well, I guess being wedded too closely to the past can get your customers all shook up. I'm indeed glad that the 650 didn't come from a vibrating legacy and that it is remarkably smooth. By the way Stuart, that was some lovely English countryside in your last video. Hope you are having a good morning. Bit late here.
Kawasaki W800 or a Guzzi750 will give you all the characteristics you want 😊
Especially the Ambassador 😊
Thank you for a nice video. I also love singles for their characteristics and I currently own a Suzuki Savage LS-650. The low end torque is amazing and it has a peak torque around 3000 rpm. A couple of other Japanese big singles I like is the Yamaha SRX 600 and Yamaha SZR 660.
Four cylinders - "a bit soulless". Love it! Of the bikes I've owned, 9 (including my 3 most recent purchases) have been singles, 3 have been twins and only one has been a 4-cylinder. Love my single-cylinder bikes. My 2022 GSX250R is a single and the salesman tried to give me a spiel about why I should consider a single rather than a twin or a four-cylinder and I cut him short, told him he had me at 'it's a single'.
Very interesting, Stuart! I completely agree with you on four cylinder bikes. I've owned a Kawasaki GT 550 four cylinder, after having ridden a Yamaha XV 920 for fifteen years. The Yamaha had lots of character. I got rid of it because of the rather high fuel consumption, and very small tank of 14,5 litres. The Kawasaki had 21 litres, but was, to me, soulless. Last year I bought a forty years old XV 500. It looks a lot like the 920, but is much smaller, with very easy handling, and moving in and out of the garage is child's play. I'm 62 years old now, and want to ride my motorbike until at least 100! This Yamaha weighs in at only 185 kilo's, with fuel. I think this engine is well nigh perfect for me. 49 horses, and little vibrations. Very good mid range, and an extra sporty kick above 6.000 revs. It pulls really well from 2.500 revs onwards. Fuel consumption is also quite good, at about 23 kms to the litre, in the mountains of Portugal. So, for me, not to large capacity v-twins are the way to go: very narrow engines with not to many vibrations. Lots of character, and extremely good looking and sounding (which is really important to me as well)! Please keep up the good work Stuart, I really love your channel.
@wimtimmerman6730 im also 62 hope to ride for many years yet , but doubt I'll have more than 5 more years , ride safely.
I love riding both my single and twin REs. They have different characteristics for sure but both are great for producing miles of smiles. If only RE would produce a V twin which I have found to produce the best results in terms of torque and use able power. Enjoyed your video as always.
I don't own one anymore, but my favorite engine sound is definitely a V twin. As you say, great torque and power. Not as lumpy as a single, which I've found a bit tiresome over a distance. Maybe a bit thirsty though?
Fantastic video Stuart as usual 👏
Another brilliant video ❤. I have 2 twins and a single bike, but I always prefer riding my single bike at this time, I like to compare both but the single is lighter and more fun! In fact I’m considering buying a BSA Scrambler! 😊
It depends what you want to ride for. I have singe.twins and four cylingders. The Four was great so smooth fast and powoerful. But I lived the single best as it was pure motor you can feel it when evewr you go out. Some time it will go up and fast other times it will be sluggish and relaxed.
Got a 690 ktm and and Ducati v twin love them both just love the grunt down low .
Vibration depends on the phasing of the two pistons, 360 (split single ) or 180 degrees
I just got a Triumph Scrambler 400X and Love it, it’s a new BSA Goldstar to me. I just rode it into the high mountain up and down gravel roads that I hunted on this spring and enjoyed it much more than I did on my Kawasaki KLR 650. It’s so agile and light. I don’t know about the interstate yet as its still in the break in stage.
Great vid Stuart. Best one I've seen explaining the difference between a single and a twin. My view is that which you prefer depends entirely on your type of riding and how you ride. Having ridden the modern Goldstar and Interceptor, I prefer the latter. Its not about how fast you go but the experience of using the power. The Goldstar as a single runs out of revs really quickly and you need to kick up the gears to avoid hitting the rev limiter. Not so good for faster overtaking. I also found it lumpy for city riding in heavy traffic. Both bikes have little vibration but I prefer the power delivery of the twin. It suits me when riding enthusiasticly. Single fine for pottering, riding to work, cheap transport. Twin better for faster rideouts, longer touring. Just a personal view. I have a much bigger tripple so maybe that's why.
All the best.
My last bike was a 4 cylinder motorcycle. The parallel twin motorcycle I'm riding now in some ways is similar. They both have higher rev limits; the Yamaha 4 cylinder at 10 krpm and the twin at 9.5 krpm. They need to spin hard for power but ar mellow enough in mid power band. They're both somewhat quiet at modest speeds. Both can cruise at about 85 mph for quite a while regardless of weather with sufficient fuel.
Singles I've ridden are a bit of a mixed bag. Most were for off road at much lower speeds. They were single task machines. I prefer the twin or the Triumph triple for a road machine. Much more civilized, smoother with more power. I do ride fast roads often enough that it's a consideration.
I ride a gilera nordwest and rc600 both able bodied singles and a lot of bang for your buck from the delightful 558 DOHC engine. I love singles.
Thanks Stuart. Great job. Good info. God bless. Happy trails.
A very interesting video, Stuart.
During my 62 years of motorcycling I have experienced all types of engine configuration, but my favourite is and always has been my 1958 Velocette Venom in every respect.
Really agree with your assessment of twin vs single. I'm seriously considering a new Royal Enfield 450 adventure bike, so I'm going to be VERY interested in your coming road test!
Love singles. Dirt bike rider at heart.. Love twins too, especially V twins. Triples are incredible, V fours probably perfect. Only have had one I4 in all my days 🙂 and never more than that. Phtt.. they are all great! Good post this Stu, love it!
A friend of mine had a Honda 500cc single cylinder motorbike. You’d hear him coming long before you saw him. The cylinder was about the size of a tomato juice can. It was fast. Not Katana fast, but it was peppy. It was a dual purpose bike,so it could go places you would t want to take a V65.
You've nailed it Stuart. I love both engine configurations as you do. But the difference in feel between singles and twins has narrowed due to the engineering innovations of recent decades. Now, you have to jump on a multi to really appreciate what a different engine configuration can do in terms of engine feel and performance characteristics. The single has always provided that more visceral riding experience than twins or fours or more can do and the larger the cylinder capacity, the more you get back in terms of rider experience. Having ridden British singles in the 80's. I can attest to the notion that a 650 single back then would have been a truly fearsome and hard to get on with beast compared to the Gold Star of the modern era. The modern BSA company have done a great job packaging nostalgia with engineering that is satisfying to ride and also user friendly and easy to live with.
Great comparison sir! One exception I found to the typical power characteristics is a GS650 Beemer, available used these days. While it has a sufficiency of low end power, it mainly loves to rev and accelerates strongly, I have from a reliable if not recommended source, above 70 mph while willing to putt around town in traffic allowing for its 430-some pound weight.
Such good vid I watched it twice 👍🏽👽
I’m in a slobbery love affair w my C350. But “C650Twin” already exits…an Interceptor, but w new drapes. I encourage RE to issue a C450 single, and keep the dash, mudguards and straight peashooter. Thanks for your wonderful videos and commentary, Sir!
I started riding on a Ducati 450 Desmo single over 50 years ago. I went on to ride many many brands and engine configurations. As an old rider I’ve now returned to the simplicity of a single. A Kawasaki KLR650 single. I can do any type of riding within reason, even long touring. Loaded with gear it gets 56 mpg. Good video.
I think the arrival of the CF Moto has had a big impact on the appreciation for the Hymalayan.
There's real competition in that sector right now.
I'm setting up a bike tour business in Almeria Spain.
I've just ordered 6x Voge 800 and when it came to an easier riding machine I went for 4x CF Moto.
For bang for buck I went Chinese. Now its the risk I've taken as these bikes will be used purely for business.
So reliability will be the key here .
I have to say Voge and CF moto of Spain have been brilliant and very supportive.
I have an inline 4 (KZ1000A2), a couple v-twins (FXRS and Sporty) and a single-pot 650 (KLR). I gotta admit, I like the way the KlR makes power. Fun and simple; that’s a hard recipe to beat.
It the kind of music one likes, best singles THUMP like the legendary Royal Enfield Bullet with a thru pipe exhaust which is street illegal! And the parallel twin exhaust of a triumph or harleydavidson V especially when one blips the throttle !! The 3-4 cylinder howl is at the other end of the music spectrum.
I appreciate the style and detailed explanation. As you mentioned, it all depends on the roads. In Italy, for example, in addition to beautiful and scenic mountain passes, you often have to deal with sections of highways and motorways, where the speed limit is 110 and 130 km/h (which are higher than 70 mph). So, having a bike that performs well at low RPMs might make it too slow when overtaking, forcing you to adopt a slower and more demanding riding style because you need to carefully calculate the chance to overtake, for example. This is a significant issue, and that's why having a bike with at least 50 hp is preferable.
At those power levels, a single-cylinder engine starts to vibrate, and there isn't much choice of bikes in that category. Some models, like the SWM Superdual I recently tested, tend to vibrate a lot at low revs, forcing you to constantly shift gears, which makes the ride somewhat tedious.
Thanks for the video! I think like you that character is necessary for enjoying a bike that doesn't do the job of a today's plastic scooter to bring you downtown for work... My 411 manage to have her own character with her 20 ish horspower engine and I love it very much today... I will still try to put Hitchcock's camshaft in it next winter (today we have snow at 4500 ft !) But 20-30 years ago I would have compared it to my XT550 and judge the RE as... weak... Looking forward your 450 analysis 😉
Just bought a bmw f650 funduro. Hope they’re ok to ride !
I just bought a 2019 Genuine G400 single. Engine is a Honda XR400 clone with classic English bike styling. It's good looking and a blast to ride. 😂
A direct comparison between the Triumph Speed 400 single, and the RE Shotgun twin I could do this spring, driving the same 25-minute circuit, was very interesting. The single had a bit more grunt at the lowest revs, and the twin a bit more at higher revs. What to my opinion speaks most in favour of the twin is the smoother sound. The bam-bam-bam from a single is after an extended ride quite exhausting for the ears. But the engine performance curve of the single makes it somewhat more interesting to ride!
I recently bought a Norton 961 SP. Plenty of vibes and noise, bags of character and smiles per miles. You need to have a go on one.
Must say I loved my Suzuki GT 125 and Yam RD 125 twins, both 2 strokes. Sod the the torque and fuel economy, just come on and feel the NOIZZZE. good video.
An interesting topic Stuart, like yourself I have a few MC's and have been test riding others in order to purchase another. Having recently ridden the J series RE 350, the BSA 650, and the CF Moto 700 Adventure, (what a great value MC that was, Chinese built with KYB suspension, Bosch ignition, Pirelli tyres, with a bored out Kawasaki 650 designed engine). However, having never ridden a Moto Guzzi, I test rode a V7 Stone 850 and bought one immediately, loads of torque, character and better build quality. 😎
IS the same between my Savage and my INTERCEPTOR. And IS the reason I do not sold the First.
One thing I've noticed comparing my Classic to my GT is that I'll probably never get a speeding ticket with the Classic. Looking for the constables are the last thing on my mind leaving only the enjoyment of the ride. I still enjoy the speed and refinement of my BMW R1250RS when traveling longer distances, but throttle control is sometimes more of a concern. Lol. 👍👍
I used to have a Kawasaki Vulcan 500. It was a cruiser that used the parallel twin from the ninja 500. But Kawasaki made changes to it. They used smaller carbs, lower compression, different cams, a heavier flywheel, and a different sprockets ratio. Some would say they ruined the performance but it was remarkably good. Lower end torque was good. And the top end was much better than the Honda 750 Aero that I bought later. I toured everywhere. My only complaint was the rear shock was too stiff but was ok with a passenger.
I think I have it covered .. a RE 650 twin shotgun for the open roads and highway, a RE 350 single hunter for urban and countryside, and a 83 Yamaha TT250 single for a bit of classic off-roading.
Also there is the Debate on 180 , 360, 270 Crank
On the Twin Cylinder Machines
Singles and V twins (or better still a glorious L twin) the essence of motorcycling, 🙂
I do long road trips on my single cylinder Suzuki Savage. Last one was 5500 km in 3 weeks.
Hey Stu...hope all is well and best regards from Australia as always..❤
Same to you!
My and my twin brother are in the younger age group for motorcyclists, being twins of course we couldn't have the same bike so I got the BSA gold star and he got the Royal Enfield Continental GT. We've both ridden eachothers bikes and agree they both have fantastic engines. I recently did a trip on the Nc500 with my gold star and I think I coudn't have brought a better bike bar a dedicated touring bike.
Great vid,I have dr650 suzuki ,took a while to get used to it,after owning twin and four cylinder bikes but really enjoy it.
I also moved away from multi-cylinder bikes over the years toward single cylinder thumpers. I liked the single primarily for simplicity and the visceral feel and torque. Then I discovered the Kawasaki W800 and I was enchanted with the feel of that twin, both for the feel and the sound. I'll credit that mainly to the Brit twin style firing order. I love it!
Hi there! I love a bike that doesn't swallow gallons like a regular Pub visitor. So I got the BMW F800. Unfortunately l'm also growing older and get more joint issues. So the vibes of this Boxer-Imitation kill my wrists after less than 2 hours at 80 (130-140kph) or more (let's say I can ride in Germany regularly...).
So 4 cylinder it is for me, for my wrists and their exciting top-end rush.
I think ideally one should have two bikes. A single for economy and getting to work but a large twin for thrills. I have a 400 single for commuting and an 1800 twin for thrills and serious mileage.
All of my shingles are 250 except for my BSA 441 victor. The rest of my fights are opposed twins and parallel twins and 1V twins.
It's a question I often ask myself. I have a single, a V-twin and a V4. However, I'm thinking of a triple 😄.
I think it goes back to the old saying, "the best bike is the one you've got." There's too much social media influence, even pressure to have the biggest and bestest.
My single is my go to for everything except distance and that's only because it's a 310cc and not happy on the autoroute.
Two bikes Ive always regretted selling on, was a BMW R100RS and a 900SS bevel drive Ducati...They both had lovely exhaust notes, a distinctive heart beat, plus you could ride in the sweet spot to avoid vibration. l now own a Triumph Street Triple 675...its pretty smooth, sounds amazing when ''given it some wellie'' Handles beautifully when on twisty roads...The truth is we need more than one Bike don't we....
I have a 25 years old V4. I'm happy with it when I'm riding it, I'm unhappy with it mostly when I view TH-cam videos of other, nicer, newer bikes ;)
On old bikes twins for me, two spark plugs to foul maybe get you home. Biggles was all for double redundancy and he could do no wrong.
For me it is all about the character of the bike. Had a few strong yamahas with no character but very strong and fast. Than a few moto guzzi with loads of character. These were twins.
Now the little classic 350, what a wonderfull bike, but.... for me to smooth ha ha. So now i am looking for the classic 500 to get more vibration and character of the old days. I need that feeling .
Thanks Stu for this video. Greetings from Holland
The set up…. I mostly listen to your videos, occasionally glancing at the video content.
The punch line…. Sometimes when I look there is a truck coming at you IN THE WRONG LANE!😮 Every time it scares the crap out of me for a second. 😂😅
Well, anyhow, hello from America!
Another great video. Looking forward to the 450 review. Cheers.
stuart fillingham, i subbed to ur channel
I'm a septugeneaian and have had everything from a Gilera 124 to an Ninja ZX14. And at one time,owned four bikes at the same time. All those motorcycles had a distinct character and I loved them all. So, stay in the saddle for as long as you can , and ride and own as many motorcycles as you can, be they single, twin, four or a six cylinder.
In my opinion, for smaller displacement bikes, a single is just fine. But as you go up a twin makes better sense IF you’re riding on hiways or making long trips. As I said , my opinion is, the twin will be better balanced , reducing vibes at speed and each smaller cylinder will have to work less hard to maintain speed and power.
People love 500cc singles, big torquey thumpers, but they vibrate at higher speeds to the point of fatigue to me.
I remember when 100, 125, 250s etc came in twins and the twins just seemed smoother.
When the 350 and 450 twins came along they were surprisingly smooth and powerful for their size.
I liken it to outboard motors on a boat, living by the coast. One large outboard, say 250-300hp works well, but two smaller , say 140-150 hp motors will work less hard making power. You won’t go twice as fast with twins, but the motor will have two cylinders sharing the load, same as outboards.
Add to that a twin can lose power in one cylinder, say a coil or plug goes out, you can still limp to a safe spot on one, like with outboards.
I’ve limped home on one cylinder several times over the years.
Again, just a personal take.
My first bike was a GS125, great bike!
OK, I have to admit to being a motorcycle junkie.
I love singles, twins & triples.
The diverse qualities of their distinctive power delivery are very engaging for me.
Which I prefer really depends upon my mood.
I have tried 4 & 6 cylinder bikes too, but find them overly heavy & complicated, as well as expensive to keep.
Thanks again Stu. Greetings from Canada. I think they have figured out how to make singles vibrate much less due to balance shafts. Having said that I have ridden singles, twins, thrillers, fours and six cylinder bikes and they all have their place. Oh, I remember the old BSA 650 twin shaking a lot too. Moved on to 4 cylinder Japanese bikes. Hiways here are much faster.
The two favourite bikes that l have owned, over the past 70+ years were, a Matchless 500 single and, a wonderful Honda Goldwing!
Where does this place me, on the graph?
Keep up your good work but, adjust, to suit your health requirements!!
I love my Classic 350, the sedate nature of the small single, together with the fluttery exhaust note, are in keeping with the style and attitude of the motorcycle. I see other owners on this platform and dark corners of social media swapping key components for various Carlos Fandango bit and bobs and wonder whether they’ve just bought the wrong bike