For ground piles I always dumped wagons, trucks, etc on the end of the pile, then pushed the silage up one end of the pile packing at the same time. Its the safest way to build a pile. Used a dualed 4020 with loader. Then finished packing with a heavier tractor , a dualed 7020 JD. Nice post,thanks! Ron
I’ve never fed silage before. I mainly feed cubes, commodities that have brewers byproducts, and hay. My late father used tell me stories of our ranch 70 years ago when he fed from silage pits. He also fed corn silage. He said he would strip down to his tee shirt shoveling it into a feed wagon when it was freezing outside. He said the steam rolled off it because it was that hot in the pile. Great content.
Used wagons to build piles but man thats a real good way to mess up a nice wagon. Easiest way that we have done in our area is to put a chopper spout on a blower and blow it on the pile. Much faster than a elevator plus you don't have to move the tractor and blower like an elevator, just twist the spout and use the bonnet. Not being bossy or negative just trying to help. Man i enjoy your videos but yall really love to work the hard way. I understand that when a young man is just getting started but work smarter not harder. Many times we don't have the help we need so we need to make everything as easy as possible. Silos next to the barn whether it be uprights or bunker would be so much easier for you guys. I get it! I started that way too but I strived always to make the job less stressful. The problem can't be money with so many new pieces of equipment bought just this year. What was spent would have sure made feeding so much faster and easier. Just a used Kelly Ryan feeder wagon would help drastically.
I grew up on a dairy farm. I think back now of all the things we could have done differently to make things more efficient. Most would not have cost that much. Contrary to what some believe, there is no award for hardest worker. Work smarter, not harder.
I worked for a guy who took a discharge chute from an older forage harvester, and fabricated controls for it, so he could point it any way he wanted- then stuck it on a silo blower. He used that to build his drive over piles, once they got over a certain height. He could put the forage wherever he needed it, and minimized the blade work needed. He also rigged up another forage harvester with a processor- and made it into the silo blower for hi-moisture corn. He'd hook it up to the 4020, and open her up. Man, that thing howled!! 40' silo, if that, so it wasn't lifting it that far- just crushing the kernals.
We piled with the elevator before, and it worked pretty well, but we also put a spout on the silo blower, and blew it on from the end of the pile,and that seemed to work better for us.
many moons ago , at my unkle's farm , we use DC case on blower to stack haylage and it packed quite tightly by hammering hay in the stack so hard ....made DC snort 😊😅
On our dairy farm we build a circle silage bunker with picket fences that is lined with a roll waterproof paper. Using a elevator to dump in the middle of the pile, we keep adding a new picket fence as the pile goes higher. Easier and safer than driving on a rectangle pile. Easier to cover and takes less area as the pile goes up. Cheap picket fence and paper with a tarp on the top. Little spoilage too. Nick
Boy that opening scene brought back memories 😂😂using a corn elevator. Went to a blower system putting it on the pile work well bigger pile. You have self made TMR pile there. Put the blade on the loader tractor and that would be exactly what we had on our piles. Thanks much young man!!! DANGEROUS
We used to drive up the pile until it got too high then we used a silage blower with a modified spout that we could direct up, down, left and right, then pack it with tractor and blade.
my grandfather would also make a small pile, he would set up a blower with an elbow dierctly clamped on it. Adjudged the ban and rpms to size the pile.
Here in East Tennessee, most folks have a pit to store their silage. But, I really like the way that you used the conveyor to place silage on top of your pile. That would be much safer than trying to drive the wagon on top of the pile. It sure would be nice if your conveyor was powered by a hydraulic motor where you could rotate the conveyor to spread the silage over the entire pile.
Ever thought about using a blower to blow to the center of the pile? Pack hard between loads, take a break each wagon. Nothing over pile to impede packing tractor. I've seen it done, but never did it myself.
I never tell people what to do but here is an idea. I used to rent my neighbors bagger. I put two bags about 30 to 40 feet apart. Then We would use the two bags as a bunker. I would put the plastic for a cover on the in side of the bag and when we finished the corn pile pull it over the other bag and seal it . The feed always came out in excellent condition. Some years the bags were filled with second or third cut haulage. From one old retired farmer to another hard working farmer.
@@colorado1088 not sure what you mean. It all depended upon how much corn we had to harvest. Some years the bigs were wider and on occasion we used just one bag and piled corn next to the big. We always had good results and saved money buy not having to buy a bunker or silo.
Sorry I wasn't more clear in my question. When you went to use the silage how did you take it, did you take that between the bags first and if so did you have problems ripping the bags on the sides? Also, were the bags on concrete or did you just put silage between the bags on the dirt, in which case did that adversely affect the silage? @@bloud5196
@@colorado1088 we hard hard packed ground. We had very little problem in scooping up the feed. We were careful not to get too close to the bags. Sometimes we feed the bags of haylage and the corn at the same time. After I started using this method many of my neighbors started the same practice. It wasn’t perfect but much better than making a big payment.
Doesn't take long to make quite a pile !!! At least that will give you easy access when the weather is nasty. Hope you're able to get the 3pt gremlins figured out on the 7405.
There is nothing that smells better than chopped corn silage I loved filling our Harvestore silo every year and never forgot that great smell thanks for your great video content as always!
A nice example of "work smarter, not harder". Interesting approach of your particular situation. Loved watching it. I also liked watching how you encounter problems, decide how to approach them. If you want to know if it's fatigue or overload that broke your bolt, you need to watch the break pattern on the bolt. You can find online how they look like in what situation (Failure analysis of mechanical parts, fatigue vs overload,...) It might help you analyse where a problem exactly is situated, although I presume you are already pretty experienced on that field. You can also drop questions to me on this field as I have done mechanical testing and failure analysis for about 18 years. Always happy to help people out on that field.
When I was farming we used a pull type corn picker. When we planted the field we would hold back a couple rows and not plant right up to the fence. This allows room to open up the field without running over any rows.
That grass clogs kemper heads too. I don’t know about on older pull types but on our older self propelled it’ll clog if you get a place without a good weed kill where the fox tail is thick
That’s one one thing we never had to do on our farm while growing up was to put duels on a tractor. I would say the elevator gig worked out great. I can’t think of anything else safe wise.
Good video and Job John Deere has had trouble with they freezing up I had a friend had only 100 hours on his and they changed him for fixing it so he was so mad he sold it. Take care, be safe and well.
Interesting idea for stacking it. Back in the day when we would make the silage pile, we would use the blower. Worked pretty good because the blower would kinda force the air out as it got forced into a pile. Another great video.
That's all I've ever seen as well, a arched spout on the blower. Worked good. Bale pits for silage were pretty common growing up but don't see anything but bags and piles these days. Hardly a silo being used around here any more.
we do use a blower too we chop into the bunks with the cut silage we haul too far to chop it at the fields cut and roll at the same time they hauk the bale home to chop it here
Don't see many guys using elevators to pile silage anymore they use to back in the day, we have used a blower with a 10' blower pipe and deflector on it to pile it after we couldn't get wagons up it just like you guys do!!
I just have to say I put up two 20 x 60 stave silos, one for silage, one for haylage, and I wouldn't trade them for all the hassle you go through with covering, uncovering, packing, etc. with your piles outside. It was a two person job, one chopping, one hauling loads and unloading. Easy as pie.
How expensive are those silos though? That's the trade off. Some use the horizontal tube bags but that has an annual expense in plastic. Any way you do it though, it's a great feeling to have the feed stored for the winter.
Can you use any loader tractor/skid loader to feed out of the uprights? I have experience with those towers of doom. Unloaders are the work of Satan, Sunday 's and Holidays are when they like to break down. JK, you run what works for you.
It took me awhile watching other Farmers to figure this out but many times these million-dollar operations as you call them are still family farms. Business in government regulations sometimes make it attractive an imperative to do things like incorporating and so on in order to bring more family members on board. Many of these outfits are even though their corporate farms they are family farms the Mets have grown in order to bring more family members onboard and into the operation.
Looks like it worked out well using the conveyor. Took a bit to work the bugs out but what extra time it took to do will be made up taking it out having it close to the barns. Another excellent video
Didn't realize how high the pile is until I saw that you're right up against the electric line from the shed to the barn. No way the 1066 could be packing on that pile!
Sure like watching you guys farm. You are what I wish farming was everywhere instead of the industrial size multi millionaire outfits. Just great videos for me to watch. Thanks.
Gierok's have a nice set up. But even the big operations are 90% family operations. Great part about farming is that each operation is different, but all are doing the same thing. 👍
What’s the voltage of that power line from barn to shop? I don’t wanna be a safety Sally, but it makes me nervous seeing men and metal equipment getting closer than regulated 10-20 feet. Especially when you say it’s very humid. Fathers and sons have been lost by getting augers and conveyers into lines in barnyards. Men have been lost on construction sites by getting crane booms and manlifts too close Fathers and sons have bee
I think a 740 loader on the 7405 would be a game changer for your silage operation alot less screwing around with driving over the pile with a wagon or bale elevators and all their problems
For many years we used a tractor loader and a loader with a blade attached in place of the bucket. we would make piles 40 or 50 feet wide by 12 to 15 feet tall. We did this up until our custom cutters were bringing in 10 ton every 5 minutes. I still think the loader was the best way to make silage piles as you could make them as high as you could climb them. duals are a wise thing. another question, why not just dump the wagons in front of the pile and push it up with the loader tractor. much faster than your setup and the loader tractor packs the pile like concrete where the wagons dump.
On those 7000 deere, the 3 points like to get stuck in the pivot if they dont get used. Once you get it freed up, i would lift and lower it once in a while to keep it freed up. Good luck
Me again on my last question if removing dirt there are big concrete blocks 2’x2’x4,6,8 foot long to use as a retaining wall can stick as high as you need
Hi you guys, I love your videos. Brings back tons of memories. But I was wondering y you guys don’t pack driving over the pile side to side then back and fourth. Wouldn’t the compact it more?
Great video Gierok Farms
No better smell then fresh chopped corn silage! Really nice setup - These were the best series of JD tractors ever produced
For ground piles I always dumped wagons, trucks, etc on the end of the pile, then pushed the silage up one end of the pile packing at the same time. Its the safest way to build a pile. Used a dualed 4020 with loader. Then finished packing with a heavier tractor , a dualed 7020 JD. Nice post,thanks! Ron
I’ve never fed silage before. I mainly feed cubes, commodities that have brewers byproducts, and hay. My late father used tell me stories of our ranch 70 years ago when he fed from silage pits. He also fed corn silage. He said he would strip down to his tee shirt shoveling it into a feed wagon when it was freezing outside. He said the steam rolled off it because it was that hot in the pile. Great content.
Used wagons to build piles but man thats a real good way to mess up a nice wagon. Easiest way that we have done in our area is to put a chopper spout on a blower and blow it on the pile. Much faster than a elevator plus you don't have to move the tractor and blower like an elevator, just twist the spout and use the bonnet. Not being bossy or negative just trying to help. Man i enjoy your videos but yall really love to work the hard way. I understand that when a young man is just getting started but work smarter not harder. Many times we don't have the help we need so we need to make everything as easy as possible. Silos next to the barn whether it be uprights or bunker would be so much easier for you guys. I get it! I started that way too but I strived always to make the job less stressful. The problem can't be money with so many new pieces of equipment bought just this year. What was spent would have sure made feeding so much faster and easier. Just a used Kelly Ryan feeder wagon would help drastically.
I grew up on a dairy farm. I think back now of all the things we could have done differently to make things more efficient. Most would not have cost that much. Contrary to what some believe, there is no award for hardest worker. Work smarter, not harder.
Nice silage pile Gierok Farms
I worked for a guy who took a discharge chute from an older forage harvester, and fabricated controls for it, so he could point it any way he wanted- then stuck it on a silo blower. He used that to build his drive over piles, once they got over a certain height. He could put the forage wherever he needed it, and minimized the blade work needed.
He also rigged up another forage harvester with a processor- and made it into the silo blower for hi-moisture corn. He'd hook it up to the 4020, and open her up. Man, that thing howled!! 40' silo, if that, so it wasn't lifting it that far- just crushing the kernals.
We piled with the elevator before, and it worked pretty well, but we also put a spout on the silo blower, and blew it on from the end of the pile,and that seemed to work better for us.
many moons ago , at my unkle's farm , we use DC case on blower to stack haylage and it packed quite tightly by hammering hay in the stack so hard ....made DC snort 😊😅
U are awsome what ever works.....watch all ur video's
On our dairy farm we build a circle silage bunker with picket fences that is lined with a roll waterproof paper. Using a elevator to dump in the middle of the pile, we keep adding a new picket fence as the pile goes higher. Easier and safer than driving on a rectangle pile. Easier to cover and takes less area as the pile goes up. Cheap picket fence and paper with a tarp on the top. Little spoilage too. Nick
Sounds cool!
Sounds like you're redneck engineering your own upright silos, lol.
I’d like to see that… sounds interesting
My father use to do it that way.
We have that exact same problem with the 3pt arms on our 7405 as well
Boy that opening scene brought back memories 😂😂using a corn elevator. Went to a blower system putting it on the pile work well bigger pile. You have self made TMR pile there. Put the blade on the loader tractor and that would be exactly what we had on our piles. Thanks much young man!!! DANGEROUS
We used to drive up the pile until it got too high then we used a silage blower with a modified spout that we could direct up, down, left and right, then pack it with tractor and blade.
my grandfather would also make a small pile, he would set up a blower with an elbow dierctly clamped on it. Adjudged the ban and rpms to size the pile.
Great video team
Chopping silage was allways my favorite thing to do
Here in East Tennessee, most folks have a pit to store their silage. But, I really like the way that you used the conveyor to place silage on top of your pile. That would be much safer than trying to drive the wagon on top of the pile. It sure would be nice if your conveyor was powered by a hydraulic motor where you could rotate the conveyor to spread the silage over the entire pile.
Fixing that hydraulic problem on the 3 point sounds like an interesting project
Ever thought about using a blower to blow to the center of the pile? Pack hard between loads, take a break each wagon. Nothing over pile to impede packing tractor. I've seen it done, but never did it myself.
Hey guys; we always used an elevator to put silage in a pile. Seems way safer than driving up on the pile. Always worked good for us.
I was just down at one of your neighbors north of town the other day to service their 2 high moisture silos!
I love your 1066 black stripe, it looks awesome
I never tell people what to do but here is an idea. I used to rent my neighbors bagger. I put two bags about 30 to 40 feet apart. Then We would use the two bags as a bunker. I would put the plastic for a cover on the in side of the bag and when we finished the corn pile pull it over the other bag and seal it . The feed always came out in excellent condition. Some years the bags were filled with second or third cut haulage. From one old retired farmer to another hard working farmer.
What technique did you use when using out of the two bags and bunker?
@@colorado1088 not sure what you mean. It all depended upon how much corn we had to harvest. Some years the bigs were wider and on occasion we used just one bag and piled corn next to the big. We always had good results and saved money buy not having to buy a bunker or silo.
Sorry I wasn't more clear in my question. When you went to use the silage how did you take it, did you take that between the bags first and if so did you have problems ripping the bags on the sides? Also, were the bags on concrete or did you just put silage between the bags on the dirt, in which case did that adversely affect the silage? @@bloud5196
@@colorado1088 we hard hard packed ground. We had very little problem in scooping up the feed. We were careful not to get too close to the bags. Sometimes we feed the bags of haylage and the corn at the same time. After I started using this method many of my neighbors started the same practice. It wasn’t perfect but much better than making a big payment.
Great answer...thanks B. @@bloud5196
Another awesome video, always enjoy watching these guys work. Keep it up, and keep the videos coming as well.
I LOVE IT ~ FARM ON !!!
~
I thought y'alls plan to use the grain unloader was genius. Feels good when a plan comes together
Thanks for the video. What’s the reason for the green cover/tarp over the white?
I'm guessing sun protection
GOOD FOR YOU GUY'S !!!! WE GOT AROUND 2 INCHES OF RAIN IN THE LAST WEEK AND A HALF IN LE SUEUR MN THE LAND OF THE JOLLY GREEN GIANT 😊😊❤❤
Red Bibs Bill finally finished the JXP 600 PLOW
Doesn't take long to make quite a pile !!! At least that will give you easy access when the weather is nasty. Hope you're able to get the 3pt gremlins figured out on the 7405.
My dad milked cows from 88 till 2015 never did corn silage this is my first time doing it so im excited to see how it turns out
The elevator was a great idea I did the same thing for my beef cattle in a barn foundation. Great video
There is nothing that smells better than chopped corn silage I loved filling our Harvestore silo every year and never forgot that great smell thanks for your great video content as always!
Is the silo full yet
Very much enjoyed 😊
We love watching your videos.😊
You fellows work together so well in solving problems working with what you have. We used to call it GI ingenuity.
A nice example of "work smarter, not harder". Interesting approach of your particular situation. Loved watching it.
I also liked watching how you encounter problems, decide how to approach them.
If you want to know if it's fatigue or overload that broke your bolt, you need to watch the break pattern on the bolt. You can find online how they look like in what situation (Failure analysis of mechanical parts, fatigue vs overload,...) It might help you analyse where a problem exactly is situated, although I presume you are already pretty experienced on that field. You can also drop questions to me on this field as I have done mechanical testing and failure analysis for about 18 years. Always happy to help people out on that field.
That's one way todo it
When I was farming we used a pull type corn picker. When we planted the field we would hold back a couple rows and not plant right up to the fence. This allows room to open up the field without running over any rows.
The elevator concept seems to be a great idea
Enjoyed watching the video 😊
We used a silo loaded and added a spout to it to make our piles beach when we farmed. It worked really well
Interesting video. 😊
Bunker time? Thanks for the video 👍
That grass clogs kemper heads too. I don’t know about on older pull types but on our older self propelled it’ll clog if you get a place without a good weed kill where the fox tail is thick
I have a new Holland chopper and head and don't have no problems with grass in the cutting discs unless they are really dull or not set right!
That’s one one thing we never had to do on our farm while growing up was to put duels on a tractor. I would say the elevator gig worked out great. I can’t think of anything else safe wise.
Good video and Job John Deere has had trouble with they freezing up I had a friend had only 100 hours on his and they changed him for fixing it so he was so mad he sold it. Take care, be safe and well.
Interesting idea for stacking it. Back in the day when we would make the silage pile, we would use the blower. Worked pretty good because the blower would kinda force the air out as it got forced into a pile. Another great video.
That's all I've ever seen as well, a arched spout on the blower. Worked good. Bale pits for silage were pretty common growing up but don't see anything but bags and piles these days. Hardly a silo being used around here any more.
we do use a blower too we chop into the bunks with the cut silage we haul too far to chop it at the fields cut and roll at the same time they hauk the bale home to chop it here
Don't see many guys using elevators to pile silage anymore they use to back in the day, we have used a blower with a 10' blower pipe and deflector on it to pile it after we couldn't get wagons up it just like you guys do!!
I just have to say I put up two 20 x 60 stave silos, one for silage, one for haylage, and I wouldn't trade them for all the hassle you go through with covering, uncovering, packing, etc. with your piles outside. It was a two person job, one chopping, one hauling loads and unloading. Easy as pie.
How expensive are those silos though? That's the trade off. Some use the horizontal tube bags but that has an annual expense in plastic. Any way you do it though, it's a great feeling to have the feed stored for the winter.
Can you use any loader tractor/skid loader to feed out of the uprights? I have experience with those towers of doom. Unloaders are the work of Satan, Sunday 's and Holidays are when they like to break down. JK, you run what works for you.
It took me awhile watching other Farmers to figure this out but many times these million-dollar operations as you call them are still family farms. Business in government regulations sometimes make it attractive an imperative to do things like incorporating and so on in order to bring more family members on board. Many of these outfits are even though their corporate farms they are family farms the Mets have grown in order to bring more family members onboard and into the operation.
Yep I also put a 20×70 silo up for corn silage hopefully no more piles in my future some of those camera angles were terrifying
Question why do you guys put the corn silage on top of the haylage why not separate them and really enjoy the videos keep up the good work
The elevator looked like a great idea to me.
Looks like it worked out well using the conveyor. Took a bit to work the bugs out but what extra time it took to do will be made up taking it out having it close to the barns. Another excellent video
Great video . Keep them coming . Corn done nicely all things considered 👍
I wanted to see how the duels hooked on! I think the elevator worked out rather nice!
The pile looks pretty high!! Maybe you should name it Mount Gierok?? Great job of packing.The pile should be great feed!! Thanks 😊.
We had a old chopper spout on a blower could move it around to blow it where you want it and just drive and pack
My father in law used a silo blower with a goose neck he would sit it up at the end of the pile and blow down the length
Ag bags are expensive, but they pay for themselves in feed quality. You are in dairy County. I assume there are custom baggers available.
We would use a blower and blow corn into a pile.
That's one way of doing it. Very informative video once again.
Didn't realize how high the pile is until I saw that you're right up against the electric line from the shed to the barn. No way the 1066 could be packing on that pile!
Really enjoyed! you worked with what you had. Does not get any better!!
Love the sound of the cow bells!! For the amount of feed you guys put up, you'd think you were milking a big herd of cows!
Harhar cartoon
I like your style of topping off the pile!
Yeehaw keep up the great work y’all what a great harvest for corn and boy them cows will have a great winter feast this year
I thought the elevator was a pretty good idea. It was a little safer than having to drag a tractor and a trailer up there. I liked it.
exactly what I was thinking too
Seeing you up high packing that silage gives me the willies one slip and over you go ,with luck and the grace of god you don't get seriously injured !
Why not rent a bagger and run bags . Seems like a lot less work and maybe better quality feed . Just my thoughts.
It's nice to see HE MEN doing great farm work
Sure like watching you guys farm. You are what I wish farming was everywhere instead of the industrial size multi millionaire outfits. Just great videos for me to watch. Thanks.
Gierok's have a nice set up. But even the big operations are 90% family operations. Great part about farming is that each operation is different, but all are doing the same thing. 👍
Sad to say you have to big a huge operation to make it now days farming it’s sad to see some many family farms struggling or selling cows
I so agree! We must get our food chain out of the hands of the 3-4 mega corporations and back to the small and intermediate farmsteads.
Trinity dairy is another great channel. Love to see these small time farms still going. Great job guys
What’s the voltage of that power line from barn to shop?
I don’t wanna be a safety Sally, but it makes me nervous seeing men and metal equipment getting closer than regulated 10-20 feet. Especially when you say it’s very humid.
Fathers and sons have been lost by getting augers and conveyers into lines in barnyards. Men have been lost on construction sites by getting crane booms and manlifts too close
Fathers and sons have bee
Your next invesetment should be silage clamp and tip trailers🤩🤩 but that idea of yours work good🤩
I really enjoy your videos! Thank you!
You guys ever thought of using AG bags?
Use your blower with a hood on it. Couple straight lengths too?
I think a 740 loader on the 7405 would be a game changer for your silage operation alot less screwing around with driving over the pile with a wagon or bale elevators and all their problems
Glad it worked out as well as it did. Hope the rest works like a charm.
Oh you already have one ..hahaha
We have a problem with too much grass in our corn and would plug the head. We have a big class chopper
For many years we used a tractor loader and a loader with a blade attached in place of the bucket. we would make piles 40 or 50 feet wide by 12 to 15 feet tall. We did this up until our custom cutters were bringing in 10 ton every 5 minutes. I still think the loader was the best way to make silage piles as you could make them as high as you could climb them. duals are a wise thing. another question, why not just dump the wagons in front of the pile and push it up with the loader tractor. much faster than your setup and the loader tractor packs the pile like concrete where the wagons dump.
Can never complain about having too much silage
Great video
On those 7000 deere, the 3 points like to get stuck in the pivot if they dont get used. Once you get it freed up, i would lift and lower it once in a while to keep it freed up. Good luck
Great video but I am wondering what happened to the grey and black dog. Haven’t seen it lately.
Me again on my last question if removing dirt there are big concrete blocks 2’x2’x4,6,8 foot long to use as a retaining wall can stick as high as you need
Any idea where to find old corn cribs like you guys use? I've searched up and down and cant find anything.
Hi you guys, I love your videos. Brings back tons of memories. But I was wondering y you guys don’t pack driving over the pile side to side then back and fourth. Wouldn’t the compact it more?
Where did you get your sand bags?
Time for a SILO!!
Elevator loading into the center of round, pie shaped piles would have advantages I think maybe.
We used a silage blower to make our pile when i was a kid.. Put it where you want it
If I ever grow corn again I will build a concrete bunker. Silos are for the birds
Great job gentlemen it takes team work to be successful, more please more, 😉✌️🤠👌👍😁
nothing but hard work good video
I don't think they respond to comments or interact I myself left many but still enjoy watching
Just wondering can you take any dirt out towards barn to make pile wider??????
Why have farmers moved from silos to piles ?
Being Swiss, you guys could yodel off the top of that Alp...lol
Looks like a bagger inline. Or build some pits you have enough hillside. My grandfather pitted it for years
It looks like you guys added about 50% to your silage pile. Interesting