That and he was pretty much the only general fighting and winning. He gave support to dozens of irregular units like White Base. He commanded the attack that reclaimed Odessa, even in the face of a nuclear attack by the Zeon forces (Amuro intercepted that). He then took the battle to space and would have won the war with peace talks if not for Gihren Zabi.
Revil is only criticizing the politicians for surrendering though. I think he's just as blind to the system's ideals of individual rights and unity and fails to see that such a system, or any system of government is doomed to tyranny.
Which is more than the Zabis could ever admit for the Principality of Zeon. And let me remind you that it's the Principality that killed 4 billion people.
@@ennui9745 Federation also used nukes in colony battles that killed innocent people, neither side is innocent. Earth Federation pretty much begged for this war.
Keep in mind the OYW was only supposed to last for one week.The Zabis thought that if they killed enough civilians that the federation would surrender. The only reason that it didn't work is because Revil escaped from Side 3, gave this speech, and turned the AT from a surrender document into the rules of warfare; which is why Revil is such a badass. So Zeon's strategy backfired by pushing the EF to a point where they wouldnt surrender, vs scaring them into surrendering.
It's similar to operation stardust. They wanted to uncover how corrupt the Federation was but it backfired so spectacularly to the point that the Zeon Remnants gave them the perfect excuse to create the Titans.
@@Batou3 It's just like the Axis powers in WWII. They lacked access to natural resources to fuel their industrial bases, which because of it were incapable of sustaining a long-term conflict. Germany failed the same knockout blow against the Soviets as they did against France, and they (with _extensive_ Allied help through Lend-Lease, mind) were able to get their act together enough to stop the _Wehrmacht_ advance and push it back to Berlin. The Japanese thought they could manage a knockout blow against America and cow them into staying away from Southeast Asia and were well aware of American industrial capacity, but most misjudged their resolve and as such, Japan lost almost all of its fleet and two major cities for it.
Whoa, hold on there friend! The Federation is a totalitarian empire that only cares about retaking Side 3 just so they can monopolize trade with Jupiter Fleet, lording power over the poor, and satisfying the desires of the rich. Their devotion to capitalism is what breeds fascists like the Zabis. Besides, Judeu Ashta is the real hero of the Universal Century and gave that would-be genocidal maniac Bright Noa a good pounding right in the kisser!
damn I wish revil speech was in a ova. It was amazing the ideas behind his speech encourage the fed to keep on fighting ,but encourage ppl to resist earth's "gravity" and to possibliy evolve into newtypes.
The federation already recognized the zeon's independence by having nothing to do with them economically. Would they be able to build up their military might in that fashion if the federation had "not been recognizing their independence"? Nope. The OYW was nothing but a Zabi powergrab
IDK, seeing as how the Federation only cares about power, he might have turned on them, but then resort to the same tactics of breeding newtypes by recruiting kids...
Why do people fall in love with the war criminals that are Zeon? Colony drops: A LOT. WMDs: USED REGULARLY. Looting: Every where. Gee... I wonder what kind of war crime they HAVEN'T committed?
Zeon was based on more than just that, it also took influence from Imperial Japan and I think also from Karl Marx. After all, the ideals of Zeon Deikun and his world where everyone will understand one another along with a complete exodus from Earth isn't that different from Marx's ideas of an anarchist state with complete equality thanks to world revolution. Both are hopelessly idealistic ideologies that got twisted by brutal dictators looking for power.
And not just Karl Marx, Zeon Deikun was also based off Immanuel Kant as well. Kant's goals were to create a world without militaries and a federation of democracies, with each nation embodying a democratic constitution and open borders for all world citizens. This is quite evident in Deikun's speech from Book 3 of the novel trilogy when he advocates an "alliance of the sides" as a means of replacing the Earth Federation. However, the Zabis took the idea to the extreme in the way Lenin did by wanting to use military might. Come to think of it, one of Marx's ideas to start a world revolution by force of arms had an end result in which the capitalist state, the entrepreneurs, and laborers, would be replaced by a republic along the lines of Plato's Aristocracy, with the intellectuals at the top and the workers at the bottom. Problems arise with Marx's argument for building an anarchial society as this new hierarchy would not wish to dismount as pointed out by Bakunin, leaving a one-party dictatorship. Hence, the end result in Marx's armed revolt works in theory but not in practice. Kant points out that if that is the case of a political argument, a contradiction of theory and practice, then therein lies corruption. That is why Kant believed that a slow process would be necessary and sufficient to create world peace; otherwise that is where I think Zeon Deikun is pointing to, that he is more to a slow process, while the Zabis are ones to follow a path that will lead to corruption. Interestingly, Marx was building off the works of Kant, and at one point agreed with the latter, especially as his original argument was for a peaceful revolution involving the technology of automation to facilitate our needs. However, he went to the extreme and thought that the technology of automation should be violently taken by force and be utilized to start global revolutions violently, much in the same way the Zabis agreed with Deikun on a post-colonial world, but disagreed with the former's more peaceful ways and decided that by using the technology of mobile suits to start an armed revolt to achieve their ends.
One thing that I always found both fascinating and quite damning about the Federation, is how their warships the Salamis, Columbus, and Magellan, are named after a battle that began the first empire European empire, and the two colonizers who began European supremacy. That's pretty telling of what the Federation is all about.
Yes. The re-armament plan didn't happen until 0070, a good 12 years after Zeon became an independent entity. And the Zabis didn't start beefing up Side 3's military until after they murdered deikun in 0068. Because unlike Zeon, the standard earth federation forces dont have a fetish for going on genocidal killing sprees. They figured the economic pressure would get them enough to rejoin the federation, which didn't work
Or you know, the mass murder of all the colony protesters but that got shut down by a mere 200 cadets. After getting their asses kicked they let Zeon become "independent" but still had sanctions against them limiting their autonomy. Full scale war was inevitable it was just a matter of when.
The Zeon possibly would've been granted independence if they had been peaceful, but no, the Zabi family comes along and launches a war that at heart, they knew they couldn't win. In the words of Starship Troopers 3's Omar Anoke: For the Federation, I will give my life
@SpecialAgentRavage Ok now I feel honored my rendition of General Revil's speech is that good in your opinion. But fair warning, I adapted it from the novel's version of the speech (yes, the original novel referenced in the video), and thus I cut down on some of the words for saving of time. And now that I found the soundtrack to Gundam 0083 vol.2 and you mentioning you might be doing Delaz's speech, I think the next speech I'll put on here will be..... "The Titans now Rise"!
Correction, it’s a war of independence to get recognized as a country that Deikun fought for. The federation did not recognize Zeon as a political entity. Also, the federation wants to retake Side 3 so they can monopolize trade with the Jupiter Fleet.
@CosmoShidan actually it was a war for supremacy, not independence. Gihren literally goes on in his speech at garma's funeral about how they are the chosen people destined to lead humanity into the future and an entire crowd of people afterwards follows him in chanting, "seig zeon!". Also, Side 3 was recognized as independent, hence why degwin even says in the Japanese dub of the 3rd compilation film "The Federation recognized the principality of Zeon as the first autonomous spacenoid nation" in his last scene with Gihren.
@@MrRed88 Nonetheless the Federation was willing to mobilize troops to put the Zeon down for the sake of their capitalistic greed. Also, Girhen's plans did not come about until after the signing of the Antartic treaty. I mean he practically made up everything as he went along in his speech at Garma's funeral. Taking the side of either capitalist state is defeating the anti-war message btw.
@CosmoShidan OK so the feds had troops, and? They weren't planning on taking side 3 at all. Zeon is the one who completely chose war. And no, Gihren didn't just make up his whole "survival of the fittest, superior race" mentality as he went along. He had that long prior to the war. He was spouting that shit off at the start. That's how the war literally started. With the Zabis twisting Zeon deikun's ideals. Don't tell me about not understanding gundam's message when you get all these literal facts about it wrong. You're in no place to be lecturing anyone about gundam's message when you just got done trying to justify Zeon with the whole "it was a war for independence" nonsense Which is one of the most common excuses from Zeon apologists. I suggest you take your own advice and realize siding with literal fascist is against gundam's message.
Dictators have been known to be monarchies as well. Plus from what I read, Gihren had little love for his own family, killing his father, older brother, and plotting against his sister. Garma and Dolzo were to different reasons, but it was clear he saw Garma more as a means to solidify his position in life and death. So yeah, Zeon was a dictatorship, especially when Minerva made it clear she wanted the fighting to end, but the Sleeves refused.
About the Side 6 revolt in 0077, the Federation backed off upon the sight of the Zaku I, since at the time, EFSF was unaware of the capabilities of mobile suits and it would be unwise to engage them head on with no data on what mobile suits are capable of.
And my point is, if side 3 didnt have any degree of Autonomy (has no source on the timeline on Unofficial) why would the Federation not move in and stamp out their "rebellion"? (Aside from plot assassination.) Also, it says that the EF rejected move for Autonomy, yet Side 6 is autonomous in the show? Since the Origin is official now, hopefully it will go into detail, as the OYW era of UC isnt consistently written as it appears.
I did not know this. This is the sort of thing that should have been seen to be declared in Gundam. and that is why I am pro-Federation. thanks for sharing and giving a voice to the encouraging speech made by General Revil. and now I understand why in Unicorn be a ship with this name!
Which ever version you believe is the canon version of Zeon Deikun, his ideals didn't sit too well with many of his followers. From what I recall, his stance in most versions of him had him make a militia but refused to go to war with the Federation, merely defend himself. However, his followers wanted blood and power, similar to the politicians on Earth... and in a ironic twist, Zeon Zum Deikun "conveniently" dies, allowing the Zabi's to take over Zeon... twisting the Republic. Part 3
if i lived in the universl century, i will own a zeon zum deikum shirt and all of his books, but would have fought with the federation due to my deep hate of the zabi, for hijacking zeon's dreams and hopes, for not seeking a peaceful way, for taking the lives of millions; the first being zeon's life itself , long live the federation, and that true zeon rises one day.
Well the Federation Space Force was not yet fully established as an entity until 0060 with Luna II's reconstruction as a military installation as without a shipyard to manufacture and maintain warships in space was also non-existent. Also the unofficial source states that the Federation was mostly dealing with building private organizations in space to handle private enterprise such as trade, industry, transportation and real estate. Not to mention building clean energy plants on earth.
Your events are out of order. Zeon declares war and kills everybody in Sides 1,2 & 4. Use colony for drop. Operation British is a failure. Most of the EFSF losses occur during this Operation and the Battle of Loum. I'm not sure how I can make it any more clear that Zeon was already an independent entity. Check the gundam wiki page, Gundam official, etc, and you'll see this is the case. It doesnt matter how many times you watch MS Igloo or how many retcons you read. It wont change facts.
Actually the first phase was to immobilize the Federation forces, seize a colony and then the colony was to drop on Jaburo, but instead changed course because the Earth Federation Space Forces at Luna II intercepted the colony altering its course to Sydney. Had the colony fell on Jaburo then Zeon would not have had to worry about a debating with the Federation any further and thus secured their independence. But again we would have no plot if the story went this way.
If the Federation did recognize Zeon as a nation, then what was the point of barring them from trade then? Even if they did accept Zeon as a nation, wouldn't they be pissed off that they would lose their favorite route to Jupiter too? Plus wasn't the point of a military build-up in the 0060s and 0070s a response to the failed economic pressure?
@DynamicZer0 well considering how determined the japanese were on defending the periphery islands, it can only be assumed how hotly they would have fought back/killed themselves when the american troops invaded
*sees complex discussion in comments section* ...This is why I like Macross more :v I have to say, I really like how you matched the speech with the music. The first and second songs are so chilling.
@SpecialAgentRavage hey you're welcome, happy to help out. I personally have been thinking of doing more speeches from the Federation, but finding those speeches are hard cause the Federation doesn't do as many speeches as Zeon does.
Dude, I've been saying that the Federation did not recognize Zeon as a country and resorted to putting sanctions on Side 3. Also the Zeon set up its military forces as a means to defend themselves should the Feddies attack. Another thing, I simply describing what the point of the Zeon offensive is and not the order of events. BTW, gundamoffcial is shut down, and using a wiki a second hand; it's better to use info from Mark Simmons' gundamunoffical since he wrote the technical books on Gundam.
@SpecialAgentRavage I downloaded the soundtrack at KH Insider in their downloads section. Go to M in their list under alphabetical order, and it should be Mobile Suit Gundam (Vol. 1) Original Soundtrack. It's track number 15 but I forget it's name. Oh and thank you for enjoying
I can support Minerva Sao Zabi, since she agreed to surrender to the Federation to finally end the wars, and Cecily Croomy who reorganized the descendants of the Zeon to DEFEND the Federation and then later joined it officially, thus ending more than 50 years of Federation-Zeon Conflict.
i mean. Degwin Zabi also wanted to end the war TWICE, as much as a Bad family the Zabis where with assassinating Zeon Zum Daikun, at least half the Family had their heads on straight and knew they could not Sustain such a war..... except Giren.. he was just batshit evil. this speech was only possible because degwin wanted to use Revill as a Peace Broker with the federation(which revill betrayed imidiatly with this speech) as they knew they cant sustain a war of atrittion and the second time before the battle of A baoa qu, They wanted to make a peace treaty, gut Gihren just Colony Laserd them into oblivion because he dosnt want peace, but superiorioty for spacenoids
@@supersasukemaniac as i said "except Giren" altough the whole "compared to hitler and took it as a compliment" has to be taken with a grain of salt given we dont know how much of "early" AD(and yes, the 20th century woudl be basicaly the midle ages for those in the UC) is really kept as knowledge.. like all they said "its the name of a dictator from the 20th century" from what i recall)
I'm not talking about the One Year War. I'm talking about Unicorn, where the ship bearing his name is used to try to hunt down and eliminate a Londo Bell (allied) ship just to keep a lid on Laplace's Box despite the Nahel Argama knowing very little. Anything about the Zabis' war crimes is irrelevant, unless you want to start comparing war crimes, which is a bit like deciding who was worse, Hitler or Stalin.
That's because the Federation is metaphorically like the Roman Empire. Especially with the Earth Sphere as an analog of how a Roman hotel was built. I. e., the rich were at the ground floor and the poor were upstairs, much like how the earthnoids are on the planet and the spacenoids in orbit respectively.
to be honest both zeon and the Earth Federation are not technically good the only reason I would side with the Federation is because zeon thought it was a good idea to gas a whole bunch of colonies and dropped them on earth and even though the Titans tried to do something similar (jackasses) zeon said fuck you with char's admirable attempt of recreating the Armageddon movie some great protectors of the earth (sorry for the bad quality)
Hold on stop! Zeon Zum Deikun had an idea, the philosophy of Spacenoids being released from 'Earths Gravity'(Earth Federation, and Earth due to pollution from man). His whole ideology was that man kind would leave Earth to heal itself from all of mans pollution, but the federation knew that if Zeons plan worked, or won favor of the people the Federation would lose power to the colonies, because their dictation is only on Earth and moon. Degwin Zabi knew that if Zeon had gone on any longer that the Federation would lose the political battle but would only force Zeon oit of its territory, as it had done many times before. The only way for Spacenoids to be free was to act with military force. I mean thats what happened, Earth Federations greed for power and their ignorance allowed for Zeon to rise...
@@artesiadeikun380 You misunderstand Zeon Deikun's point. The reason he didn't want to resort to a military offensive is because he was relying on deterrence; he wanted to keep the Federation on edge by fear of the cost of war. That is, his strategy was to exploit the Federation's trilemma: either blow up the Zeon colonies to make an example of them, but at the cost of $120 billion dollars worth of colony reconstruction, repopulation and reorganization or risk Zeon attacking them and rebuild $360 billion dollars worth of colony clusters, or hope that their military might will pressure Zeon into capitulating, yet risk mass protests, riots, general strikes and lynchings by spacenoids. This is what Revil means when he states that they are indecisive and a weakness in the Federation that Zeon Deikun took advantage of. Plus the third outcome of the Federation's trilemma is what happened in the novelization.
Or better yet, read the Novel trilogy to get accurate background details or watch the ovas depicting the OYW from yuitiro19 to watch the Federation Fleet intercept the falling colony and Zeon placing the rocket engines.
And so, these politicians hired through backdoor links a terrorist group to destroy Laplace colony, the original capital of the Earth Federation, and thus killing the Pro-Colonial Independence members of the Federation Senate. Moving ahead 50 years or so, these hard liners are in power with insane amounts of riches from the Colonies stashed away are threatened by the rise of the Republic of Zeon, led by Zeon Zum Deikun, who thanks to many versions of him make him a noble man to a psycho. part 2.
@Luigi84289 it doesn't matter what type of government it is, but Zeon was not a monarchy it was a dictatorship if Zeon Zum Deikun's ideal for side 3 as a republic would of lasted then the federation would of still intervened eventually (investment and all that). Your view of democracies is a bit scewed by the people that have taken the reigns of those ideals and became corrupt by their positions of power.
None of those conflicts lasted as long. Nor as bloody. Zeon may have lived on through the years. But they were never again quite the juggernauts they used to be.
Growing military might? Zeon's military might was a response to the Federation's military might as the Feddies have nuclear arms at the time. Also why would they allow Zeon to be independent? Heck the Feds could have just wiped out Zeon with their nukes and not have to go to the trouble of placing sanctions upon one of their provinces breaking away because of a rogue governors, but then their would be no story.
Ooooh, my apologies I misunderstood your comment By OVAs do you mean the Gihren's Greed cutscenes? I never thought that they/the novels are considered canon or at least dealing with the continuity of the 0079 series? You can still see GO if you use that wayback machine archive thing. Yeah, ive got PDFs of all three(on #2) and they greatly differ from the show as far as I can tell.
When I watched Operation Stardust I remembered thinking how many people have to die before the Federation will just let Zeon go. Holding on to Zeon cost them so many lives. Between the war and the colony drops Earth was devastated while Zeon itself was never invaded. How could holding on to Zeon possibly be worth the cost of keeping them?
I feel for you. As Zeon Deikun warned, there are going to be dire consequences for the Federation's continued aggression. Hence he gave them a choice of either settling this in a manner not unlike the cold war of the 20th century or repeat the mistakes of the crusades in which both sides turned their homeland of their faiths into a graveyard.
That is actually a fair question. Even with the new Laplace incident from U.C. 0096, this has got to stop. If people want to expand out into space on their own then let them. A child will always break away from their parents, and forge a path all of their own.
@@LockeLynx Unfortunately, the Federation won't let Zeon or any other colony go, because they want to monopolize trade with the Jupiter Fleet. Keeping Zeon in the Federation's orbit is why they want to retain the Side 3 cluster. This is especially as the revenue in taxation from the colonies purchasing the gases, mineral resources, and technologies sold by the Jupiter Fleet is too good for the Federation to pass up. In short, their only reason to keep Zeon and the other colony clusters is just to make money off of them for the sake of it.
@MabusZero I didn't catch that mispronunciation when I produced the video, thank you for pointing it out. Normally I am well versed in speaking, but it was rather late when I recorded myself, so it slipped my notice. I plan to later fix a lot of my voice dub videos.
@SpecialAgentRavage I guess using my version of the speech is ok then XD as long as you make sure to note it's an adapted version of the speech, not the original words. Oh yeah, I finished the Titans now rise speech, gonna post it within the hour or so
Another thing, the early Federation warships were not as sophisticated as they would later become as in this depiction from mahqdotnet: mecha/gundam/unicorn-ova/salamis.htm
Well maybe the intros and the cutscenes depicting the most important events like the North American campaign, the Odessa drop operation, the battle of Loum and the botched Operation British.
@SpecialAgentRavage Of course! Feel free too, I give you permission to do your own take of the speeches and to post them on youtube. Just be sure to give proper credits and all, Bandai for making the original, and me for rewording it.
@CLShadow5114 i know what you mean. i used to be a really hardcore federation fan, and didnt think that highly of zeon, but i have caved since then and love both sides. i used gihren's speech from garma's funeral in an acting class last year, and my classmates really got into standing up and shouting "hail zeon!" at the end, which was really cool this year i'll be using delaz's speech from 0083 and may also use this one :)
Not entirely. Hitler and the Nazis rose on a similar platform, but it was a flat out lie. From start to finish, it was pure lie. Marx had little to do with the Zeon, since he proposed Communism. What Zeon was, was at the very least a Fascist state to a Nazi state. It's even quoted in the actual series that Gihren was a follower of Hitler and Nazi ideology. He said so to the face of his father and proudly followed it. What he didn't recall was that Hitler and the Nazis lost. Missing the warning.
And one more thing... There's evidence that Zeon was actually a puppet regime of the Jupiter Empire... at least in its later years before its remnants joined the Federation in waging war on the Jupiter Empire... so in the end, the Zeon were absorbed fully by the Earth Federation about 50 years later. Republic and Principality elements.
In continuation to my previous post, I will give my own examination in a non-bias way of both Zeon as a whole and the EF as a whole. First lets start with the new facts presented in Gundam Unicorn. When the Earth Federation was founded, it's original Prime Minister and original parliament had created a constitution which guaranteed that the Space Colonies WILL gain autonomy from Earth if they chose too. HOWEVER, there were many who sought to keep the wealth from space on Earth. Part 1
The people of zeon are the choosen people, their government is immensely superior to the currupt and weak as the federation. The federation is just a poorly thrown together pocket dictatorship, at least Zeon was openly about how their people have few rights. Besides, Zeon was in the right the earth is currupt and always trying to force it's view on colonies, who mostly saught to escape that. Oh by the way, how brillaint was the leadership on earth? "They won't drop luna 2" Tell that to sidney.
So what does that tell us already about the starting points of the EF and Zeon? Both BEGAN as noble governments with ideals of peace and freedom for it's citizens and it's neighbors, but people disagreed with their peace loving leaders and wanted power which made them kill their leaders and take over, thus allowing them to exploit their desire for power. You can't look at these factions after that point as a whole, because of the heroes and villains on both sides, to do otherwise dumb. Part 3
In real world terms, it's the equivalent of a kid saying "Fuck you, I'm moving out." and getting angry when their parents stop giving them money/food. I have never seen any sources claiming that the Federation didn't recognize zeon as independent, and if they hadnt, zeon would not be allowed to have it's own defense force. So as far as im concerned, with the information out there, it's not up for debate. As far as I know it was a response to Side 3's growing military might.
Wrong Federation. They definitely had no high ground. The OYW was a conflict of conquest and independence. The bloody valentine wars were nothing but war of extermination. And I dare anyone the put it more delicately.
Yes Zeon did nothing wrong! Look the fact is this The Earth Federation was oppressing these people. They broke away, formed their own nation and declared war in response to what had been done to them! The Earth Federation got what it deserved and frankly I would have gone even further than what Zeon did to them. Oh and btw the Earth can recover from nuclear war.
EFSF: Zeon is Exhausted
Zeon:
EFSF: oh shit
EFSF: Oh shit. Kick their ass, Amuro!
Amuro: (proceeds to do it until he kicks the bucket at 29)
That and he was pretty much the only general fighting and winning. He gave support to dozens of irregular units like White Base. He commanded the attack that reclaimed Odessa, even in the face of a nuclear attack by the Zeon forces (Amuro intercepted that). He then took the battle to space and would have won the war with peace talks if not for Gihren Zabi.
At least Revil admitted that the Earth Government wasn't exactly stellar. He knew it himself
Revil is only criticizing the politicians for surrendering though. I think he's just as blind to the system's ideals of individual rights and unity and fails to see that such a system, or any system of government is doomed to tyranny.
Which is more than the Zabis could ever admit for the Principality of Zeon.
And let me remind you that it's the Principality that killed 4 billion people.
@@ennui9745 necessary… Seig Zeon
@@BigNorm4Life Disgusting.
@@ennui9745 Federation also used nukes in colony battles that killed innocent people, neither side is innocent. Earth Federation pretty much begged for this war.
Keep in mind the OYW was only supposed to last for one week.The Zabis thought that if they killed enough civilians that the federation would surrender. The only reason that it didn't work is because Revil escaped from Side 3, gave this speech, and turned the AT from a surrender document into the rules of warfare; which is why Revil is such a badass. So Zeon's strategy backfired by pushing the EF to a point where they wouldnt surrender, vs scaring them into surrendering.
I noticed that. Every Zeon strategy seems to have been focused on quick and decisive wins. The colony drop. The attacks on Jaburo. The space laser.
Their planning was deceptively and diabolically performed but were screwed with unexpected circumstances.
It's similar to operation stardust. They wanted to uncover how corrupt the Federation was but it backfired so spectacularly to the point that the Zeon Remnants gave them the perfect excuse to create the Titans.
@@Batou3 It's just like the Axis powers in WWII. They lacked access to natural resources to fuel their industrial bases, which because of it were incapable of sustaining a long-term conflict. Germany failed the same knockout blow against the Soviets as they did against France, and they (with _extensive_ Allied help through Lend-Lease, mind) were able to get their act together enough to stop the _Wehrmacht_ advance and push it back to Berlin. The Japanese thought they could manage a knockout blow against America and cow them into staying away from Southeast Asia and were well aware of American industrial capacity, but most misjudged their resolve and as such, Japan lost almost all of its fleet and two major cities for it.
If only the General had lived through the war.
He might have been able to rein in the Titans from their more excessive actions.
Zeon took billions of lifes in the opening of the war.
*Salutes the man who gave us hope. He who gave the Pegasus their chance.* Bring it on Zeeks!! You can not win!! Long live the Earth Federation!!
Whoa, hold on there friend! The Federation is a totalitarian empire that only cares about retaking Side 3 just so they can monopolize trade with Jupiter Fleet, lording power over the poor, and satisfying the desires of the rich. Their devotion to capitalism is what breeds fascists like the Zabis. Besides, Judeu Ashta is the real hero of the Universal Century and gave that would-be genocidal maniac Bright Noa a good pounding right in the kisser!
damn I wish revil speech was in a ova. It was amazing the ideas behind his speech encourage the fed to keep on fighting ,but encourage ppl to resist earth's "gravity" and to possibliy evolve into newtypes.
Down with Zeon, Long live the Federation
Long live the Federation
Damn feddies.
all hail the emporium of man all hail the god emperor
地球連邦軍万歳🙌!
FUCK THE FEDDIES SIEG ZEON
The federation already recognized the zeon's independence by having nothing to do with them economically. Would they be able to build up their military might in that fashion if the federation had "not been recognizing their independence"? Nope. The OYW was nothing but a Zabi powergrab
If Revil didn't die, he would have help deal with the Titans and Neo Zeon.
IDK, seeing as how the Federation only cares about power, he might have turned on them, but then resort to the same tactics of breeding newtypes by recruiting kids...
All HALL THE EARTH FEDERATION
Why do people fall in love with the war criminals that are Zeon? Colony drops: A LOT. WMDs: USED REGULARLY. Looting: Every where. Gee... I wonder what kind of war crime they HAVEN'T committed?
Zeon was based on more than just that, it also took influence from Imperial Japan and I think also from Karl Marx. After all, the ideals of Zeon Deikun and his world where everyone will understand one another along with a complete exodus from Earth isn't that different from Marx's ideas of an anarchist state with complete equality thanks to world revolution. Both are hopelessly idealistic ideologies that got twisted by brutal dictators looking for power.
And not just Karl Marx, Zeon Deikun was also based off Immanuel Kant as well. Kant's goals were to create a world without militaries and a federation of democracies, with each nation embodying a democratic constitution and open borders for all world citizens. This is quite evident in Deikun's speech from Book 3 of the novel trilogy when he advocates an "alliance of the sides" as a means of replacing the Earth Federation. However, the Zabis took the idea to the extreme in the way Lenin did by wanting to use military might.
Come to think of it, one of Marx's ideas to start a world revolution by force of arms had an end result in which the capitalist state, the entrepreneurs, and laborers, would be replaced by a republic along the lines of Plato's Aristocracy, with the intellectuals at the top and the workers at the bottom. Problems arise with Marx's argument for building an anarchial society as this new hierarchy would not wish to dismount as pointed out by Bakunin, leaving a one-party dictatorship. Hence, the end result in Marx's armed revolt works in theory but not in practice. Kant points out that if that is the case of a political argument, a contradiction of theory and practice, then therein lies corruption. That is why Kant believed that a slow process would be necessary and sufficient to create world peace; otherwise that is where I think Zeon Deikun is pointing to, that he is more to a slow process, while the Zabis are ones to follow a path that will lead to corruption.
Interestingly, Marx was building off the works of Kant, and at one point agreed with the latter, especially as his original argument was for a peaceful revolution involving the technology of automation to facilitate our needs. However, he went to the extreme and thought that the technology of automation should be violently taken by force and be utilized to start global revolutions violently, much in the same way the Zabis agreed with Deikun on a post-colonial world, but disagreed with the former's more peaceful ways and decided that by using the technology of mobile suits to start an armed revolt to achieve their ends.
I guess this is why the show and anime failed here in the States.
Wow, none of you know what you are talking about.
The federation and Zeon are both capitalist empires that desire power.
One thing that I always found both fascinating and quite damning about the Federation, is how their warships the Salamis, Columbus, and Magellan, are named after a battle that began the first empire European empire, and the two colonizers who began European supremacy. That's pretty telling of what the Federation is all about.
Yes. The re-armament plan didn't happen until 0070, a good 12 years after Zeon became an independent entity. And the Zabis didn't start beefing up Side 3's military until after they murdered deikun in 0068.
Because unlike Zeon, the standard earth federation forces dont have a fetish for going on genocidal killing sprees. They figured the economic pressure would get them enough to rejoin the federation, which didn't work
Or you know, the mass murder of all the colony protesters but that got shut down by a mere 200 cadets. After getting their asses kicked they let Zeon become "independent" but still had sanctions against them limiting their autonomy. Full scale war was inevitable it was just a matter of when.
1) Define 'started it all'
2) Not all the time
3) Even with Nukes and Colony Drops, the Zeon still lost.
The Zeon possibly would've been granted independence if they had been peaceful, but no, the Zabi family comes along and launches a war that at heart, they knew they couldn't win.
In the words of Starship Troopers 3's Omar Anoke: For the Federation, I will give my life
Gundam and Starship Troopers...I see a man of culture
@SpecialAgentRavage Ok now I feel honored my rendition of General Revil's speech is that good in your opinion. But fair warning, I adapted it from the novel's version of the speech (yes, the original novel referenced in the video), and thus I cut down on some of the words for saving of time. And now that I found the soundtrack to Gundam 0083 vol.2 and you mentioning you might be doing Delaz's speech, I think the next speech I'll put on here will be..... "The Titans now Rise"!
The Federation gave Zeon independence, then Zeon waged a genocidal war. Stop with the revisionism.
Correction, it’s a war of independence to get recognized as a country that Deikun fought for. The federation did not recognize Zeon as a political entity. Also, the federation wants to retake Side 3 so they can monopolize trade with the Jupiter Fleet.
@CosmoShidan actually it was a war for supremacy, not independence. Gihren literally goes on in his speech at garma's funeral about how they are the chosen people destined to lead humanity into the future and an entire crowd of people afterwards follows him in chanting, "seig zeon!". Also, Side 3 was recognized as independent, hence why degwin even says in the Japanese dub of the 3rd compilation film "The Federation recognized the principality of Zeon as the first autonomous spacenoid nation" in his last scene with Gihren.
@@MrRed88 Nonetheless the Federation was willing to mobilize troops to put the Zeon down for the sake of their capitalistic greed. Also, Girhen's plans did not come about until after the signing of the Antartic treaty. I mean he practically made up everything as he went along in his speech at Garma's funeral. Taking the side of either capitalist state is defeating the anti-war message btw.
@CosmoShidan OK so the feds had troops, and? They weren't planning on taking side 3 at all. Zeon is the one who completely chose war. And no, Gihren didn't just make up his whole "survival of the fittest, superior race" mentality as he went along. He had that long prior to the war. He was spouting that shit off at the start. That's how the war literally started. With the Zabis twisting Zeon deikun's ideals. Don't tell me about not understanding gundam's message when you get all these literal facts about it wrong. You're in no place to be lecturing anyone about gundam's message when you just got done trying to justify Zeon with the whole "it was a war for independence" nonsense Which is one of the most common excuses from Zeon apologists. I suggest you take your own advice and realize siding with literal fascist is against gundam's message.
Dictators have been known to be monarchies as well. Plus from what I read, Gihren had little love for his own family, killing his father, older brother, and plotting against his sister. Garma and Dolzo were to different reasons, but it was clear he saw Garma more as a means to solidify his position in life and death. So yeah, Zeon was a dictatorship, especially when Minerva made it clear she wanted the fighting to end, but the Sleeves refused.
Long live the memory of the Old Man.
About the Side 6 revolt in 0077, the Federation backed off upon the sight of the Zaku I, since at the time, EFSF was unaware of the capabilities of mobile suits and it would be unwise to engage them head on with no data on what mobile suits are capable of.
As the Marines say, "Ooh-RAH!"
The Federation forever.
Sweet! I always loved this speech in the novel!
And my point is, if side 3 didnt have any degree of Autonomy (has no source on the timeline on Unofficial) why would the Federation not move in and stamp out their "rebellion"? (Aside from plot assassination.) Also, it says that the EF rejected move for Autonomy, yet Side 6 is autonomous in the show?
Since the Origin is official now, hopefully it will go into detail, as the OYW era of UC isnt consistently written as it appears.
I did not know this. This is the sort of thing that should have been seen to be declared in Gundam. and that is why I am pro-Federation. thanks for sharing and giving a voice to the encouraging speech made by General Revil. and now I understand why in Unicorn be a ship with this name!
Watch the Origin. Your tune about the Earth Federation will drastically change.
@@devastater97 your choice was either earth fed or the zabis. Earth fed is awful but ghiren was a monster.
@@devastater97 The federation maybe alot of things. But genocidal isn’t one of them.
Which ever version you believe is the canon version of Zeon Deikun, his ideals didn't sit too well with many of his followers. From what I recall, his stance in most versions of him had him make a militia but refused to go to war with the Federation, merely defend himself. However, his followers wanted blood and power, similar to the politicians on Earth... and in a ironic twist, Zeon Zum Deikun "conveniently" dies, allowing the Zabi's to take over Zeon... twisting the Republic. Part 3
if i lived in the universl century, i will own a zeon zum deikum shirt and all of his books, but would have fought with the federation due to my deep hate of the zabi, for hijacking zeon's dreams and hopes, for not seeking a peaceful way, for taking the lives of millions; the first being zeon's life itself , long live the federation, and that true zeon rises one day.
Your Zeon would rise, but as a Republic.
Well the Federation Space Force was not yet fully established as an entity until 0060 with Luna II's reconstruction as a military installation as without a shipyard to manufacture and maintain warships in space was also non-existent. Also the unofficial source states that the Federation was mostly dealing with building private organizations in space to handle private enterprise such as trade, industry, transportation and real estate. Not to mention building clean energy plants on earth.
Your events are out of order. Zeon declares war and kills everybody in Sides 1,2 & 4. Use colony for drop. Operation British is a failure. Most of the EFSF losses occur during this Operation and the Battle of Loum.
I'm not sure how I can make it any more clear that Zeon was already an independent entity. Check the gundam wiki page, Gundam official, etc, and you'll see this is the case. It doesnt matter how many times you watch MS Igloo or how many retcons you read. It wont change facts.
The fact that this video is so old adds to the authenticity. :)
Actually the first phase was to immobilize the Federation forces, seize a colony and then the colony was to drop on Jaburo, but instead changed course because the Earth Federation Space Forces at Luna II intercepted the colony altering its course to Sydney. Had the colony fell on Jaburo then Zeon would not have had to worry about a debating with the Federation any further and thus secured their independence. But again we would have no plot if the story went this way.
If the Federation did recognize Zeon as a nation, then what was the point of barring them from trade then? Even if they did accept Zeon as a nation, wouldn't they be pissed off that they would lose their favorite route to Jupiter too? Plus wasn't the point of a military build-up in the 0060s and 0070s a response to the failed economic pressure?
bUt MUh iDeAls
@DynamicZer0 well considering how determined the japanese were on defending the periphery islands, it can only be assumed how hotly they would have fought back/killed themselves when the american troops invaded
It's a shame Revil's wishes would be corrupted by the Titans 4 years later!
I thought the gryps conflict was 8 years later
@Batou3 the Gryps Conflict was 8 years later, but the Titans came into power 4 years after the OYW
Is it me or General Revel sounds younger then he looks?
Reads the description.
@@giornogiovannatheultimateb8553 Oh. It’s not from the anime.
*sees complex discussion in comments section*
...This is why I like Macross more :v
I have to say, I really like how you matched the speech with the music. The first and second songs are so chilling.
@Tom3744 Sorry, got a bit carried away. And the Earth Alliance and Earth Federation are almost the same anyway!
Long live the earth federation.
"Zeon is exhausted!"
Proceeds to fight Zeon, Neo-Zeon and Sleeves until UC 100
@SpecialAgentRavage hey you're welcome, happy to help out. I personally have been thinking of doing more speeches from the Federation, but finding those speeches are hard cause the Federation doesn't do as many speeches as Zeon does.
Long live the federation !
Siege Zeon!
Dude, I've been saying that the Federation did not recognize Zeon as a country and resorted to putting sanctions on Side 3. Also the Zeon set up its military forces as a means to defend themselves should the Feddies attack. Another thing, I simply describing what the point of the Zeon offensive is and not the order of events. BTW, gundamoffcial is shut down, and using a wiki a second hand; it's better to use info from Mark Simmons' gundamunoffical since he wrote the technical books on Gundam.
@SpecialAgentRavage I downloaded the soundtrack at KH Insider in their downloads section. Go to M in their list under alphabetical order, and it should be Mobile Suit Gundam (Vol. 1) Original Soundtrack. It's track number 15 but I forget it's name. Oh and thank you for enjoying
Also forgot about the Antarctic Treaty.
I can support Minerva Sao Zabi, since she agreed to surrender to the Federation to finally end the wars, and Cecily Croomy who reorganized the descendants of the Zeon to DEFEND the Federation and then later joined it officially, thus ending more than 50 years of Federation-Zeon Conflict.
i mean. Degwin Zabi also wanted to end the war TWICE, as much as a Bad family the Zabis where with assassinating Zeon Zum Daikun, at least half the Family had their heads on straight and knew they could not Sustain such a war..... except Giren.. he was just batshit evil.
this speech was only possible because degwin wanted to use Revill as a Peace Broker with the federation(which revill betrayed imidiatly with this speech) as they knew they cant sustain a war of atrittion
and the second time before the battle of A baoa qu, They wanted to make a peace treaty, gut Gihren just Colony Laserd them into oblivion because he dosnt want peace, but superiorioty for spacenoids
@@weberman173 Degwin himself compared Giren to Adolf Hitler, and Giren took it as a compliment.
@@supersasukemaniac as i said "except Giren"
altough the whole "compared to hitler and took it as a compliment" has to be taken with a grain of salt given we dont know how much of "early" AD(and yes, the 20th century woudl be basicaly the midle ages for those in the UC) is really kept as knowledge.. like all they said "its the name of a dictator from the 20th century" from what i recall)
-Eyes Rolling-
Great performance
I'm not talking about the One Year War. I'm talking about Unicorn, where the ship bearing his name is used to try to hunt down and eliminate a Londo Bell (allied) ship just to keep a lid on Laplace's Box despite the Nahel Argama knowing very little. Anything about the Zabis' war crimes is irrelevant, unless you want to start comparing war crimes, which is a bit like deciding who was worse, Hitler or Stalin.
Long live the Federation
@SpecialAgentRavage lol, if you want, I can post here the original version used in the novel because as I said before, mine is an adaptation of it.
Why Revil’s speech is like Roman’s refuse to surrender to Hannibal and determined to win the war no matter what?
That's because the Federation is metaphorically like the Roman Empire. Especially with the Earth Sphere as an analog of how a Roman hotel was built. I. e., the rich were at the ground floor and the poor were upstairs, much like how the earthnoids are on the planet and the spacenoids in orbit respectively.
to be honest both zeon and the Earth Federation are not technically good the only
reason I would side with the Federation is because zeon thought it was a good idea to
gas a whole bunch of colonies and dropped them on earth and even though the Titans
tried to do something similar (jackasses) zeon said fuck you with char's admirable
attempt of recreating the Armageddon movie some great protectors of the earth
(sorry for the bad quality)
You mean the Zabi Faction. Zeon Deikun (in the novel at least) wanted world peace instead of all out war as the Earth Faction and the Zabis did.
Hold on stop!
Zeon Zum Deikun had an idea, the philosophy of Spacenoids being released from 'Earths Gravity'(Earth Federation, and Earth due to pollution from man). His whole ideology was that man kind would leave Earth to heal itself from all of mans pollution, but the federation knew that if Zeons plan worked, or won favor of the people the Federation would lose power to the colonies, because their dictation is only on Earth and moon.
Degwin Zabi knew that if Zeon had gone on any longer that the Federation would lose the political battle but would only force Zeon oit of its territory, as it had done many times before. The only way for Spacenoids to be free was to act with military force.
I mean thats what happened, Earth Federations greed for power and their ignorance allowed for Zeon to rise...
@@artesiadeikun380 You misunderstand Zeon Deikun's point. The reason he didn't want to resort to a military offensive is because he was relying on deterrence; he wanted to keep the Federation on edge by fear of the cost of war. That is, his strategy was to exploit the Federation's trilemma: either blow up the Zeon colonies to make an example of them, but at the cost of $120 billion dollars worth of colony reconstruction, repopulation and reorganization or risk Zeon attacking them and rebuild $360 billion dollars worth of colony clusters, or hope that their military might will pressure Zeon into capitulating, yet risk mass protests, riots, general strikes and lynchings by spacenoids. This is what Revil means when he states that they are indecisive and a weakness in the Federation that Zeon Deikun took advantage of. Plus the third outcome of the Federation's trilemma is what happened in the novelization.
As a Zeon fan/loyalist... you did an awesome job on Revil's speech! But I still can't wait to whack you with my heat hawk! >:P
Oh, keep dreaming. You're gonna keep throwing bodies and equipment at one assault carrier and three MS. Blitz can only get you so far.
Which was used to perpetuate the corruption in the Earth Federation General Revil was talking about. Ironic, isn't it?
Long live zeon down with the People of gravity HAIL ZEON!
@CLShadow5114 funny you should say that, since i copy and pasted the original version out of the description '^-^ heh
Or better yet, read the Novel trilogy to get accurate background details or watch the ovas depicting the OYW from yuitiro19 to watch the Federation Fleet intercept the falling colony and Zeon placing the rocket engines.
And so, these politicians hired through backdoor links a terrorist group to destroy Laplace colony, the original capital of the Earth Federation, and thus killing the Pro-Colonial Independence members of the Federation Senate. Moving ahead 50 years or so, these hard liners are in power with insane amounts of riches from the Colonies stashed away are threatened by the rise of the Republic of Zeon, led by Zeon Zum Deikun, who thanks to many versions of him make him a noble man to a psycho. part 2.
@Luigi84289 it doesn't matter what type of government it is, but Zeon was not a monarchy it was a dictatorship if Zeon Zum Deikun's ideal for side 3 as a republic would of lasted then the federation would of still intervened eventually (investment and all that). Your view of democracies is a bit scewed by the people that have taken the reigns of those ideals and became corrupt by their positions of power.
awesome speech!
where can i get the background music that starts at 1:25?
Zeon was not, in fact, exauhsted.
*decades of Zeon wars follow*
None of those conflicts lasted as long. Nor as bloody. Zeon may have lived on through the years. But they were never again quite the juggernauts they used to be.
Growing military might? Zeon's military might was a response to the Federation's military might as the Feddies have nuclear arms at the time. Also why would they allow Zeon to be independent? Heck the Feds could have just wiped out Zeon with their nukes and not have to go to the trouble of placing sanctions upon one of their provinces breaking away because of a rogue governors, but then their would be no story.
Ooooh, my apologies I misunderstood your comment
By OVAs do you mean the Gihren's Greed cutscenes? I never thought that they/the novels are considered canon or at least dealing with the continuity of the 0079 series?
You can still see GO if you use that wayback machine archive thing.
Yeah, ive got PDFs of all three(on #2) and they greatly differ from the show as far as I can tell.
You have the ability to become a brilliant advocate!
When I watched Operation Stardust I remembered thinking how many people have to die before the Federation will just let Zeon go. Holding on to Zeon cost them so many lives. Between the war and the colony drops Earth was devastated while Zeon itself was never invaded. How could holding on to Zeon possibly be worth the cost of keeping them?
I feel for you. As Zeon Deikun warned, there are going to be dire consequences for the Federation's continued aggression. Hence he gave them a choice of either settling this in a manner not unlike the cold war of the 20th century or repeat the mistakes of the crusades in which both sides turned their homeland of their faiths into a graveyard.
Curtis T That is shythe Titans came into fruition
That is actually a fair question. Even with the new Laplace incident from U.C. 0096, this has got to stop. If people want to expand out into space on their own then let them. A child will always break away from their parents, and forge a path all of their own.
@@LockeLynx Unfortunately, the Federation won't let Zeon or any other colony go, because they want to monopolize trade with the Jupiter Fleet. Keeping Zeon in the Federation's orbit is why they want to retain the Side 3 cluster. This is especially as the revenue in taxation from the colonies purchasing the gases, mineral resources, and technologies sold by the Jupiter Fleet is too good for the Federation to pass up. In short, their only reason to keep Zeon and the other colony clusters is just to make money off of them for the sake of it.
@@CosmoShidan what IS the Jupiter Fleet? Never heard of it. (Not kidding)
@MabusZero I didn't catch that mispronunciation when I produced the video, thank you for pointing it out. Normally I am well versed in speaking, but it was rather late when I recorded myself, so it slipped my notice. I plan to later fix a lot of my voice dub videos.
@SpecialAgentRavage I guess using my version of the speech is ok then XD as long as you make sure to note it's an adapted version of the speech, not the original words. Oh yeah, I finished the Titans now rise speech, gonna post it within the hour or so
Another thing, the early Federation warships were not as sophisticated as they would later become as in this depiction from mahqdotnet:
mecha/gundam/unicorn-ova/salamis.htm
Long live the federation
Then the Zeon are trying to get the Federation to recognize their independence by force.
Exactly. Enough casualties and they hoped the Feds would crack and give in.
Well maybe the intros and the cutscenes depicting the most important events like the North American campaign, the Odessa drop operation, the battle of Loum and the botched Operation British.
@SpecialAgentRavage Of course! Feel free too, I give you permission to do your own take of the speeches and to post them on youtube. Just be sure to give proper credits and all, Bandai for making the original, and me for rewording it.
@CLShadow5114 thanks! ^-^
i've been looking for this one forever!
@CLShadow5114 i know what you mean. i used to be a really hardcore federation fan, and didnt think that highly of zeon, but i have caved since then and love both sides. i used gihren's speech from garma's funeral in an acting class last year, and my classmates really got into standing up and shouting "hail zeon!" at the end, which was really cool
this year i'll be using delaz's speech from 0083 and may also use this one :)
Helldivers prepare for battle.
Down with the Earth Faction! All Hail to Revil!
@CLShadow5114 lol thats alright
as i said, i already copied it from the description
Not entirely. Hitler and the Nazis rose on a similar platform, but it was a flat out lie. From start to finish, it was pure lie. Marx had little to do with the Zeon, since he proposed Communism. What Zeon was, was at the very least a Fascist state to a Nazi state. It's even quoted in the actual series that Gihren was a follower of Hitler and Nazi ideology. He said so to the face of his father and proudly followed it. What he didn't recall was that Hitler and the Nazis lost. Missing the warning.
Gundam is also implying that Governments are the cause of all wars.
Might have been a better time after the OYW if General Revil lived.
Magnificent.
Let him think what he wants, I personally support zeon w/ no regard to whats right or wrong in this case....
@CptainGarmaZabi
Totally agreed...down with the Feds!
And one more thing...
There's evidence that Zeon was actually a puppet regime of the Jupiter Empire... at least in its later years before its remnants joined the Federation in waging war on the Jupiter Empire... so in the end, the Zeon were absorbed fully by the Earth Federation about 50 years later.
Republic and Principality elements.
In continuation to my previous post, I will give my own examination in a non-bias way of both Zeon as a whole and the EF as a whole. First lets start with the new facts presented in Gundam Unicorn. When the Earth Federation was founded, it's original Prime Minister and original parliament had created a constitution which guaranteed that the Space Colonies WILL gain autonomy from Earth if they chose too. HOWEVER, there were many who sought to keep the wealth from space on Earth. Part 1
I wish there were a Zeon Deikun speech.
The people of zeon are the choosen people, their government is immensely superior to the currupt and weak as the federation. The federation is just a poorly thrown together pocket dictatorship, at least Zeon was openly about how their people have few rights. Besides, Zeon was in the right the earth is currupt and always trying to force it's view on colonies, who mostly saught to escape that. Oh by the way, how brillaint was the leadership on earth? "They won't drop luna 2" Tell that to sidney.
Can I please, General Revil, JUST NUKE ZEON INTO HISTORY!!!!!
They had every right to use WMD's!
*my dude that attack killed around half the population of earth,no one has the right to use a WMD*
Very nice.
@frozenhiphop09 Well... that's a first lol, I give you props for saying something other than Hail Zeon
So what does that tell us already about the starting points of the EF and Zeon? Both BEGAN as noble governments with ideals of peace and freedom for it's citizens and it's neighbors, but people disagreed with their peace loving leaders and wanted power which made them kill their leaders and take over, thus allowing them to exploit their desire for power. You can't look at these factions after that point as a whole, because of the heroes and villains on both sides, to do otherwise dumb. Part 3
In real world terms, it's the equivalent of a kid saying "Fuck you, I'm moving out." and getting angry when their parents stop giving them money/food. I have never seen any sources claiming that the Federation didn't recognize zeon as independent, and if they hadnt, zeon would not be allowed to have it's own defense force. So as far as im concerned, with the information out there, it's not up for debate.
As far as I know it was a response to Side 3's growing military might.
I'll take you up on that challenge. ;) BTW, what's the backing track you used for this?
For our Blue and Pure World!
Wrong Federation. They definitely had no high ground. The OYW was a conflict of conquest and independence. The bloody valentine wars were nothing but war of extermination.
And I dare anyone the put it more delicately.
Any chance you can transcribe this or something? I wanna use it for speech practice
I can see your point on that subject.
Yes Zeon did nothing wrong! Look the fact is this The Earth Federation was oppressing these people. They broke away, formed their own nation and declared war in response to what had been done to them!
The Earth Federation got what it deserved and frankly I would have gone even further than what Zeon did to them.
Oh and btw the Earth can recover from nuclear war.