I think the real meat of this system is in understanding how much light to add to increase it decrease by stops. The whole balancing skin tones according to false colour always seemed to work just fine on the vanilla false colour out of the Atomos units, but after watching a few of these videos trying to understand why people rave about EL zone, now I understand. Thank you. It’s about being able to perceive exactly hour much to open or close aperture, how many stops of ND and how much full light to add and being able to instruct gaffer in stops instead of just saying more, more, a little bit more. Nice.
Quality over quantity! Great to have you back Paul with another gem. I have been holding off giving Atomos more money for a Ninja update that includes almost every feature that I have already paid for in previous updates except that of this highly interesting EL zone feature! I wanted to find more information as to how to use it correctly and you have now convinced me that it is a must-have for my exposure measuring future! As I have added a full Nikon kit to my arsenal of equipment, I too pondered on the thought that Nikon might be the next company to incorporate this feature in their top end cameras now or in the near future! Thanks for all the great info and stay safe in Blighty in these perilous times! 👏🏾👍🏾🙏🏾 🏴🇸🇪🇹🇹
Already use it and love it. Makes my workflow so much easier. Sometimes it’s refining and implementing an idea that makes it useful and that bit different. The head of Sony at the time stated that the Walkman wasn’t his idea but he made it better than existed previously. The EL zone appears to me to be similar.
I got it, Bought a DCTL for Davinci that has it, made my own LUT with it , exporting it to my Monitor and it works perfect!!! Not like false colors but works well.
Thank you so much for taking time to succinctly explain EL Zone and the farcical patent. You did a great job! EL Zone is certainly awesome. But mapping exposures on a logarithmic scale conforming to stops is neither rocket science nor new, as you pointed out. I agree with you that camera/monitor manufacturers should challenge this patent and offer this feature.
I spent a lot of time years ago shooting B&W film in a view camera with a spot meter and Adams’ books featuring the Zone System alas a bible so this makes a ton of sense to me. Like many patents it absolutely sounds absurd that it was granted protection as something truly new and innovative.
Thanks for another excellent video. If you're worried about sharing the LUT, would you be willing to make a tutorial on how it's done? I don't think that would invite a lawsuit....
Thanks for posting, always wondered if the Zone system could be implemented successfully for video would be nice to use the spot meter again. Hope all is well Paul?
Thank you for this video. I was just thinking about how to implement EL Zones and I have a technical question (it's more of an observation, but with the implicit question of whether it's correct or not) about using EL Zones with an FX3 in CineEI mode. To properly monitor the in-camera LUTs used in CineEI modes, the external monitor (in my case, a SmallHD) needs to be set to LEGAL range; otherwise, the in-camera 709 LUTs are not displayed correctly. However, to properly use the EL Zones, the Slog3 signal must be interpreted as FULL range; otherwise, the stops (especially as you move away from the central ones) are not correct. So, if I understood correctly, to properly monitor an FX3 (but maybe it's the same for an FX6) in CineEI mode, you need to: - Deactivate the LUTs to send the Slog3 signal. - Change the input range from LEGAL to FULL. - Activate the EL Zones. Now, it takes a bit of time to do these steps, and I have a feeling that those who use EL Zones with a camera shooting in CineEI don't bother switching from LEGAL to FULL, and therefore they are often used incorrectly. Another option could be to always keep the input set to FULL, but in this case, you would have to settle for not correctly displaying the 709 LUTs (they would have lower contrast compared to how they are displayed on the in-camera monitor, and even the histogram would be capped in the blacks and whites). Thank you again, and I'm glad I found this channel!
Thanks for your comment... I didn't realise you had to change the input range on the SmallHD monitors. That makes it a bit more of a pain to switch back and forth. Maybe there is a market for the simple SLog3 to ELZone LUT. At least that way you can just switch the user out on the camera or monitor to EL Zone and it will display on the native Slog as intended? The pain is you then need a different LUT for every type of camera Log output.
Yeah a lot of LUTs are actually gonna make a similar mistake when loaded into a monitor, where the signal has been compressed to legal levels and it's this legal levels signal that is supplied to the LUT, and then the monitor expands the LUT output to full levels before displaying it to you. Absolute headache for people making a show LUT. Small HD monitors let you choose whether your LUT receives legal or data levels fwiw. Seems like a great feature but if you don't have one of those you gotta find a workaround, which is to sandwich your LUT with a levels conversion
@@thatcherfreeman True. But generally, LUTs for S-Log3 are already set up to receive FULL range input. In fact, if you apply an S-Log3 to Rec.709 LUT on a SmallHD monitor, it will display correctly (if you have set the monitor input to FULL range). I think the LUT output is adjusted to FULL range by the monitor. The FULL or LEGAL settings of the LUT are only, as you mentioned, for setting the LUT input. However, if the same LUT is applied in-camera on the FX3, the output will instead be in LEGAL range. So, unfortunately, there's no way to view both the FULL level S-Log3 signal on the monitor (which is needed for using EL Zone) and the camera’s internal LUT, which requires a LEGAL input signal to display correctly. The only solution is to change the input data range each time you turn off the camera's LUT to use EL Zone. It’s strange how no one has ever noticed this issue.
@@extrashot Thank you for the response! I'll look into it further and see if there’s actually a simpler way to use EL Zone in CineEI mode. A small side note for anyone who wants to check that there are no data range issues with EL Zone: To verify if the stops are correct it's enough to switch the base ISO while using them and see if the zones remain the same, even if the colors change (except for the central ones, which are in 1/2 stop increments).
@@edoardolenzi video levels are generally an abomination but if that's how it works in the fx3, that's a disaster and is certainly more error prone for users. But yeah, smallhd is nice enough to let you choose the levels. The cheaper monitors I own (Atomos included) expect video levels over HDMI, yet apply LUTs on those video levels code values without first expanding the levels to full.
Nice one! EL Zone is the illegitimate child of false colour and light meter, as I put it in my video on the same topic. I'm also baffled why it's not getting a wider adoption. I doubt it's because of licensing fee, can't be that big. It's probably chicken and egg situation where brands don't see a request for it because not a lot of people are aware of it. Also, I heard from ProAV that Kinefinity is going to add EL Zone to their Eagle EVF. As a side note, FC is very reliable when it's built into the camera, like ARRI, Canon. Sony doesn't even have false colour in their "cinema line" cameras. With the monitors it's always a pain because not all of them turn the monitoring LUT off to source FC on the LOG image. Sony's M&C app is guilty of that too. I've yet to find a one-button solution to switch between FC and LUT'ed image on Sony cameras.
There are several if you search that are the same, Reddit for example I found some, have not tried them yet, but they are apparently the same if not the real ones..
Yes! Post the LUT! In true extra shot fashion, like the 4k hack for the Sony F5 forced Sony to upgrade it, maybe this will help progress getting it across multiple monitor and camera brands
Another wonderful video. Nicely done. And cheers to the "good old days" of only B&W viewfinders with zebras on. 👴 (Does that makes us old geezers?) Seriously, thanks for posting this. Had not been familiar with EL Zone... but I will now also be attempting to create my own LUT for Sony cameras -if EL doesn't want you to "share". I'm not a big fan of Small HD nor Atomos... and like you, also not a big fan of false color on most of my monitors. But still use zebras.
Hi Mark, this old geezer's still using Zebras! 😂 I'd love EL Zone to be a one button option on the camera viewfinder though. Maybe if people push we'll get an answer on the patent. Thanks for the comment, take care.
Been a fan of your channel since the VariCam LT review! (I wound up going with FS7II) I think if you change the effective colors of your zone exposure LUT EL won’t have anything to complain about since Ansel Adams hasn’t complained about EL, if you catch my meaning.
@@extrashotYes, I was wondering if the LUT was based on blackest black to white-est white and took the 'false colour' representation of exposure out of the equation.. so, effectively judging exposure in shades/stops of black and white.... could that work??. Or is that a dumb idea??
False color works great if you can customize it. But that feature isn’t available in most monitors or apps. Is one reason I converted to using SmallHD monitors. EL Zone could be the answer to standardizing a color:exposure map. Unfortunately, monitor manufacturers are using it as a feature to drive sales. Rather than including it on all their monitors, they’re adding it as an upsell (Atomos).
I think the reason why EL Zone is not yet widely adapted because the demand is not that high yet. I really dont think its the licensing fee because a 20USD app called Monitor+ have El Zone though its only for Sony Cameras I believe.
@@extrashot If you do try it out with slog3 on Monitor+, can you please compare its middle gray against actual IRE value using zebra? It seems as though 44-45% IRE is where Monitor+ puts its middle gray zone, but from whatever I've read, middle gray in slog3 should be 41%. In fact, I am curious what IRE values you used for the different EL Zones in your LUT. Thanks.
Thanks a lot for making this! I always wondered how so many people (on TH-cam) could praise false color when it has a different implementation in every monitor and isn't calibrated to the different log profiles. I was looking to upgrade my 10+ years old SmallHD AC7 (with only Zebras) to something with more exposure tools and LUT support: First I tried the praised Mars M1, it didn't even have a scale showing what color is which IRE range. Then I bought a Portkeys 7" and the scopes and false color only apply after the LUT which is also utterly useless. What is going on? Those are toys not tools. People not mentioning those things in reviews loose all credibility for me. Maybe you should make a tutorial on how to make a false color lut which is calibrated to Slog3 and stops ;)
It does remind me of that guy who patented latent image matte painting. If I remember the what I read correctly.. the patent got non enforceable when people realized it was basically just a controlled double exposure. You mask off the bit you don't want exposed on set and do another exposure with the matte painting later with a reversed matte. That's all it was.
I made my own LUT using Diode Film's DCTL code, with the advantage that i made also 3 compensated versions of it for when i overexpose the sensor by 1, 1.5 or 2 stops. From what i understand you can't do that in the upgrade on the Ninja V+, which i haven't paid for yet.
Not seen this option on my: S1H S5 OSEE Megamon 15 Blackmagic Video Assist 12g 7" or my Fotga E50S.. Got to have another look, as I remember EL Zones from years ago, but it's something I don't use so something I want to reacquaint myself with.
I think it's only on some VariCams as standard. I got it running on the OSEE as a LUT for S-Log3 but I think it's only SmallHD and Atomos that currently do the real thing.
I knew this patent was phoney the minute I heard about it. The patent should never have been granted based on prior art. His color scheme is almost exactly how a Flanders monitor false colors looked in 2015. I'm almost certain anyone could challenge this patent if they had the capital and patience to go through with it. I would hope any reasonable judge would throw that patent out the window. I also made my own LUT using basic math. It wasn't hard. It was more difficult coding a decent DCTL for Resolve than calculating stops of light above and below middle gray on a linear light scale.
With my monitor I just have their false colors which changed my way of exposing and got me way better exposure than anything else, In Davinci I use a DCTL that gives me the same result as this but for grading and getting correct exposure. My only doubt sometimes even though I am getting pretty exposure through my monitor false colors, is Whether I should be Turning off my LUT first in the Monitor and then checking False Colors. Never really found a good tutorial about what is the best way to read them Thanks!
With EL Zone, you'll only get a proper exposure when it's used over the original Log footage. It doesn't work with a LUT at all. The fact that you can use false colour over a LUT is part of the problem for me. There's no standardisation!
@@extrashot Thanks for answering, so you recommend not having a Out enabled when viewing False Color on an external monitor ? That was kind of my question that I cannot find anywhere. With a click I can turn off my LUT's in my monitor and then click false Colors to check exposure. But I always thought it was good to check with the LUT I will be using in Post Rec 709. Thanks!
Can you make one for the Ronin 4D? I can’t even use my SmallHD monitor with my 4D because it won’t recognize the 4D. So I can’t use the EL Zone system. HELP!!!!
I have also always felt false color and how it was implemented by most monitors was rather useless. It was designed for normal standard video and not very suitable for log video and yet people use it. Sure it tells us more than a single zebra but nothing really lines up well. It was not meant to be a one size fit all thing. Proper false color like on a Flanders display is adjustable. We can set the values for each color and the color. We can essentially set it to work like stops if we want to and just show what’s important to us for the format we work with. How every other manufacturer has implemented false color was a very silly and lazy approach. Better than nothing some may say but I’m not sure that’s true. If it’s very inaccurate and one has to put so much guess work into what it’s doing per camera it could actually be doing more harm than good. The -rob;em is people look at a color and assume its value is correct no matter what camera is used. If one carefully figures out what value each color means for their camera and format then it can be used but it’s far from perfect. Many times a single color will transition in the middle of a stop or not represent a stop at all. It’s just some random value that may or may not work. Also confused by the patent and I had an email exchange with ED himself about where he wanted me to pay a license fee just to mention the existence of EL Zone in an app I am making. I will no longer include it for that reason. Ironically what he created is helping the industry but so hurting it at the same time,e time. The tool is there but many will never be able to get it for that licensing reason. Like you said it’s not rocket science to find the IRE value per stop. Any false color system is somewhat based on that. Using a color change per IRE value that has some meaning like middle gray, +1 stop and so forth.
Thank you for the considered reply. I'm amazed you got to talk about licencing fees with ED. Were you making an app to include EL Zone? He talked about releasing one at first but nothing happened. I can't help feeling the industry is losing out because of the way this is being managed. The false colour on the Flanders is great, but that cost puts it out of reach for many!
@@extrashot I was making a reference app that would include EL Zone just as a reference so people were aware of it. Basically free marketing and encouraging people how much better it is to false color. It’s also my hope manufacturers ditch the lame form of false color and adopt EL Zone. Oh well. It’s possible he just misunderstood what I was trying to do.
I used Davinci Resolve to make the LUT for SLog3 but it would be easy to make a LUT for any Log curve as Davinci already has the gamma's for most cameras built in. You just have to divide the Wide Gamut data (timeline) into stops before applying a colour to each division.
Your problem is that you just put out a video showing that you are using the exact process and using the patent by reference - if you had came out of nowhere saying that you have created a LUT using stops for false colors and never mentioned Ed's system - he wouldn't have a case for a lawsuit for a utility Patent. The US utility patents are a cash grab and are only as good as the success of defending it. It maybe the fact that companies want to cash in on the marketing and the use of the use of the Name more than just getting the product in use. He uses cool colors below middle grey and warm colors above. But as a colorist - I did some consulting on a DCTL for Resolve and suggest that the cool colors and the warm colors swatches should use the RGB color wheel reference and go clockwise on the wheel. I have no idea why Ed Lach chose the order of his swatches. I imagine that reverse engineering and using the colors in the order just mentioned that there is no way a patent holder could make claim. He also uses 1/2 stop on each side of middle grey then back to full stops. So if you used two 1/2 stops outward from middle grey - the false color would be even better on a face to see that transition.
I used Davinci Resolve to make the LUT so you don't need to know the whole gamma curve, just the position of middle grey. Resolve already has the gamma curves for most cameras.
@@extrashot Yeah i just mean that EL Zone isnt more "universal" than Arri False Color in a way. As you need to make the LUT based on a gamma curve or else itll be wrong. Now for how the exposure values are split up is another thing, i do prefer what EL Zone does in that sense. But you need to know the gamma curve being used to get an accurate EL Zone just like you need it with Arri False Color. Blackmagic for example uses false color in their cameras and it is based on which gamma curve you use in camera, and you can also put it in when using false color in post. EL Zone is just a different distrobution of exposure values than Arri False Color, but they essentially do the same thing, map exposures to different colors. Arri prioritizes Clipping points and skintones whilst EL Zone prioritizes even stops
Is it not limited to 12 stops ? Mmm Shame a DoP has gone down this rather questionable patenting road , especially this one. It's like trying to patent back light.
"EL Zone is coming very soon, we have all the other modes but need to implement EL zone now as we just finished it for Ninja and Shogun, is on the rodmap for an update soon." Coming from a comment from atomos.
It looks as if you are experiencing the same problem with EL zone on the Ninja when feeding SLog3 into it. It won’t display any black parts of the image which it’s supposed to do if EL zone would be implemented properly on the Ninja. On other monitors like SmallHd EL zone displays black in the darkest parts
I've just checked and zero light is displayed as black on my Ninja. Are you sure the Ninja has detected the correct Log on the input signal page? (Just so you know, the EL Demo on screen was faked from my LUT as there's no way to record the Ninja display!)
Best camera channel video in years. Actually productive. All you camera channels out there take note. This is how to do it.
Thank you for the kind comment - much appreciated! 👍
POST THE LUT AMIGO!
EL zone is getting very popular on film sets. SmallHD monitors have it included.
It's great for visualising contrast ratios on set and I can definitely see it becoming more popular. Good selling point for SmallHD 👍
I think the real meat of this system is in understanding how much light to add to increase it decrease by stops.
The whole balancing skin tones according to false colour always seemed to work just fine on the vanilla false colour out of the Atomos units, but after watching a few of these videos trying to understand why people rave about EL zone, now I understand.
Thank you.
It’s about being able to perceive exactly hour much to open or close aperture, how many stops of ND and how much full light to add and being able to instruct gaffer in stops instead of just saying more, more, a little bit more.
Nice.
Exactly... you nailed it. You can see the contrast ratio of the whole image in stops, and as you say, that's great for gaffers.
Quality over quantity! Great to have you back Paul with another gem. I have been holding off giving Atomos more money for a Ninja update that includes almost every feature that I have already paid for in previous updates except that of this highly interesting EL zone feature! I wanted to find more information as to how to use it correctly and you have now convinced me that it is a must-have for my exposure measuring future! As I have added a full Nikon kit to my arsenal of equipment, I too pondered on the thought that Nikon might be the next company to incorporate this feature in their top end cameras now or in the near future! Thanks for all the great info and stay safe in Blighty in these perilous times! 👏🏾👍🏾🙏🏾 🏴🇸🇪🇹🇹
Great to see your comment Eugene... and thank you. Blighty is fine if you ignore the sensationalist media! You take care. 👍
Already use it and love it. Makes my workflow so much easier. Sometimes it’s refining and implementing an idea that makes it useful and that bit different. The head of Sony at the time stated that the Walkman wasn’t his idea but he made it better than existed previously. The EL zone appears to me to be similar.
Love how you easily explain everything keep them coming! Thanks
El Zone sounds like my local LUT Dealer
Always helpful. Thanks!
Your videos are always great. You should teach that in schools. Thanks for youre videos it would be a pity if your knowledge and experience got lost.
Thank you, very kind.
I got it, Bought a DCTL for Davinci that has it, made my own LUT with it , exporting it to my Monitor and it works perfect!!! Not like false colors but works well.
Where did you buy the dctl?
in the Monitor+ app for Sony cameras we even get the "EL Zone" with different recipes like rec709 , slog2 and slog3 in the false color tab
I hate using a phone as my monitor
better than nothing
It has the false color system, dont see the El Zone ( using monitor+ paid version)
@@24_f_p_s long press the false color button, then you can chose type of false color.
Thank you so much for taking time to succinctly explain EL Zone and the farcical patent. You did a great job! EL Zone is certainly awesome. But mapping exposures on a logarithmic scale conforming to stops is neither rocket science nor new, as you pointed out. I agree with you that camera/monitor manufacturers should challenge this patent and offer this feature.
Thanks mate, this will help me many times, I can make it work.❤
Great video again. thank you very much.
Thank you... appreciated!
How are your videos useful and informative each and every time? Thank you!
...and thank you for the kind comment!
You are correct. The main dilemma is that the patent is granted for just a false color LUT with smooth gradient.
How much to send it my way 😀Love your work!
How do I know you're not working for Ed Lachman to catch me out! 😂😂😂
Just discovered and subbed to your channel - nice work 👍
@@extrashot Haha This is true! Could be undercover.
@@extrashot Thank you so much! Means a lot, I have been following along for a long time now. You always have great real information. Thanks 🙏
Nice explanation how to use EL-Zones to expose your image correctly. I developed exactly the same workflow with my regular Ninja V.
The camera viewfinder on a LUT and the Ninja on ELZone works well for me... 👍
Yeah....this is what we call, "eyeballing it".
I spent a lot of time years ago shooting B&W film in a view camera with a spot meter and Adams’ books featuring the Zone System alas a bible so this makes a ton of sense to me. Like many patents it absolutely sounds absurd that it was granted protection as something truly new and innovative.
@@tomdchi12 Absurd is the word… thanks for the comment.
Thanks for another excellent video. If you're worried about sharing the LUT, would you be willing to make a tutorial on how it's done? I don't think that would invite a lawsuit....
Thank you... I'm working out how I can share!
Thanks for posting, always wondered if the Zone system could be implemented successfully for video would be nice to use the spot meter again. Hope all is well Paul?
Thank you for this video. I was just thinking about how to implement EL Zones and I have a technical question (it's more of an observation, but with the implicit question of whether it's correct or not) about using EL Zones with an FX3 in CineEI mode. To properly monitor the in-camera LUTs used in CineEI modes, the external monitor (in my case, a SmallHD) needs to be set to LEGAL range; otherwise, the in-camera 709 LUTs are not displayed correctly. However, to properly use the EL Zones, the Slog3 signal must be interpreted as FULL range; otherwise, the stops (especially as you move away from the central ones) are not correct. So, if I understood correctly, to properly monitor an FX3 (but maybe it's the same for an FX6) in CineEI mode, you need to:
- Deactivate the LUTs to send the Slog3 signal.
- Change the input range from LEGAL to FULL.
- Activate the EL Zones.
Now, it takes a bit of time to do these steps, and I have a feeling that those who use EL Zones with a camera shooting in CineEI don't bother switching from LEGAL to FULL, and therefore they are often used incorrectly.
Another option could be to always keep the input set to FULL, but in this case, you would have to settle for not correctly displaying the 709 LUTs (they would have lower contrast compared to how they are displayed on the in-camera monitor, and even the histogram would be capped in the blacks and whites).
Thank you again, and I'm glad I found this channel!
Thanks for your comment... I didn't realise you had to change the input range on the SmallHD monitors. That makes it a bit more of a pain to switch back and forth. Maybe there is a market for the simple SLog3 to ELZone LUT. At least that way you can just switch the user out on the camera or monitor to EL Zone and it will display on the native Slog as intended?
The pain is you then need a different LUT for every type of camera Log output.
Yeah a lot of LUTs are actually gonna make a similar mistake when loaded into a monitor, where the signal has been compressed to legal levels and it's this legal levels signal that is supplied to the LUT, and then the monitor expands the LUT output to full levels before displaying it to you. Absolute headache for people making a show LUT.
Small HD monitors let you choose whether your LUT receives legal or data levels fwiw. Seems like a great feature but if you don't have one of those you gotta find a workaround, which is to sandwich your LUT with a levels conversion
@@thatcherfreeman True. But generally, LUTs for S-Log3 are already set up to receive FULL range input. In fact, if you apply an S-Log3 to Rec.709 LUT on a SmallHD monitor, it will display correctly (if you have set the monitor input to FULL range). I think the LUT output is adjusted to FULL range by the monitor. The FULL or LEGAL settings of the LUT are only, as you mentioned, for setting the LUT input.
However, if the same LUT is applied in-camera on the FX3, the output will instead be in LEGAL range.
So, unfortunately, there's no way to view both the FULL level S-Log3 signal on the monitor (which is needed for using EL Zone) and the camera’s internal LUT, which requires a LEGAL input signal to display correctly. The only solution is to change the input data range each time you turn off the camera's LUT to use EL Zone.
It’s strange how no one has ever noticed this issue.
@@extrashot Thank you for the response! I'll look into it further and see if there’s actually a simpler way to use EL Zone in CineEI mode.
A small side note for anyone who wants to check that there are no data range issues with EL Zone: To verify if the stops are correct it's enough to switch the base ISO while using them and see if the zones remain the same, even if the colors change (except for the central ones, which are in 1/2 stop increments).
@@edoardolenzi video levels are generally an abomination but if that's how it works in the fx3, that's a disaster and is certainly more error prone for users.
But yeah, smallhd is nice enough to let you choose the levels. The cheaper monitors I own (Atomos included) expect video levels over HDMI, yet apply LUTs on those video levels code values without first expanding the levels to full.
Very interesting. Wonder what someone with proper legal knowledge would have to say about that patent.
I wonder too!
Nice one! EL Zone is the illegitimate child of false colour and light meter, as I put it in my video on the same topic. I'm also baffled why it's not getting a wider adoption. I doubt it's because of licensing fee, can't be that big. It's probably chicken and egg situation where brands don't see a request for it because not a lot of people are aware of it. Also, I heard from ProAV that Kinefinity is going to add EL Zone to their Eagle EVF.
As a side note, FC is very reliable when it's built into the camera, like ARRI, Canon. Sony doesn't even have false colour in their "cinema line" cameras. With the monitors it's always a pain because not all of them turn the monitoring LUT off to source FC on the LOG image. Sony's M&C app is guilty of that too. I've yet to find a one-button solution to switch between FC and LUT'ed image on Sony cameras.
A one button switch to toggle between two LUTs on Sony cameras would be a fantastic firmware upgrade!
Is it against the patent if you make your LUT available for free for educational purposes? I’d love to see how that LUT works. Thanks for the insight!
There are several if you search that are the same, Reddit for example I found some, have not tried them yet, but they are apparently the same if not the real ones..
Yes! Post the LUT! In true extra shot fashion, like the 4k hack for the Sony F5 forced Sony to upgrade it, maybe this will help progress getting it across multiple monitor and camera brands
Great video. Now I have to buy a new monitor!
I still use Zebras 😅 and Waveform. Thx for a very useful video
Another wonderful video. Nicely done. And cheers to the "good old days" of only B&W viewfinders with zebras on. 👴 (Does that makes us old geezers?) Seriously, thanks for posting this. Had not been familiar with EL Zone... but I will now also be attempting to create my own LUT for Sony cameras -if EL doesn't want you to "share". I'm not a big fan of Small HD nor Atomos... and like you, also not a big fan of false color on most of my monitors. But still use zebras.
Hi Mark, this old geezer's still using Zebras! 😂 I'd love EL Zone to be a one button option on the camera viewfinder though. Maybe if people push we'll get an answer on the patent. Thanks for the comment, take care.
Been a fan of your channel since the VariCam LT review! (I wound up going with FS7II) I think if you change the effective colors of your zone exposure LUT EL won’t have anything to complain about since Ansel Adams hasn’t complained about EL, if you catch my meaning.
That's probably true and I did wonder about that, but then we wouldn't have the standard scale which would be useful across all cameras and monitors?
@@extrashotYes, I was wondering if the LUT was based on blackest black to white-est white and took the 'false colour' representation of exposure out of the equation.. so, effectively judging exposure in shades/stops of black and white.... could that work??. Or is that a dumb idea??
Maestro!
False color works great if you can customize it. But that feature isn’t available in most monitors or apps. Is one reason I converted to using SmallHD monitors. EL Zone could be the answer to standardizing a color:exposure map.
Unfortunately, monitor manufacturers are using it as a feature to drive sales. Rather than including it on all their monitors, they’re adding it as an upsell (Atomos).
True... and it's not cheap!
I think the reason why EL Zone is not yet widely adapted because the demand is not that high yet. I really dont think its the licensing fee because a 20USD app called Monitor+ have El Zone though its only for Sony Cameras I believe.
Wow, I have Monitor+ and didn't even realise it has EL Zone... must go any check it out now. Thank you
@@extrashot If you do try it out with slog3 on Monitor+, can you please compare its middle gray against actual IRE value using zebra? It seems as though 44-45% IRE is where Monitor+ puts its middle gray zone, but from whatever I've read, middle gray in slog3 should be 41%. In fact, I am curious what IRE values you used for the different EL Zones in your LUT. Thanks.
Would love to try this lut out
searching the comments for a link myself
@burgunbeerd I made 1 and it works well.
@@thenewcool76 is there any video to learn how to do it? I need it Thanks
Thanks a lot for making this! I always wondered how so many people (on TH-cam) could praise false color when it has a different implementation in every monitor and isn't calibrated to the different log profiles. I was looking to upgrade my 10+ years old SmallHD AC7 (with only Zebras) to something with more exposure tools and LUT support: First I tried the praised Mars M1, it didn't even have a scale showing what color is which IRE range. Then I bought a Portkeys 7" and the scopes and false color only apply after the LUT which is also utterly useless. What is going on? Those are toys not tools. People not mentioning those things in reviews loose all credibility for me.
Maybe you should make a tutorial on how to make a false color lut which is calibrated to Slog3 and stops ;)
It does remind me of that guy who patented latent image matte painting. If I remember the what I read correctly.. the patent got non enforceable when people realized it was basically just a controlled double exposure.
You mask off the bit you don't want exposed on set and do another exposure with the matte painting later with a reversed matte. That's all it was.
I made my own LUT using Diode Film's DCTL code, with the advantage that i made also 3 compensated versions of it for when i overexpose the sensor by 1, 1.5 or 2 stops. From what i understand you can't do that in the upgrade on the Ninja V+, which i haven't paid for yet.
Not seen this option on my:
S1H
S5
OSEE Megamon 15
Blackmagic Video Assist 12g 7"
or my Fotga E50S..
Got to have another look, as I remember EL Zones from years ago, but it's something I don't use so something I want to reacquaint myself with.
I think it's only on some VariCams as standard. I got it running on the OSEE as a LUT for S-Log3 but I think it's only SmallHD and Atomos that currently do the real thing.
love your content, really really useful, How can I make or get a lut? I need some help to expose properly slog3
I knew this patent was phoney the minute I heard about it. The patent should never have been granted based on prior art. His color scheme is almost exactly how a Flanders monitor false colors looked in 2015. I'm almost certain anyone could challenge this patent if they had the capital and patience to go through with it. I would hope any reasonable judge would throw that patent out the window.
I also made my own LUT using basic math. It wasn't hard. It was more difficult coding a decent DCTL for Resolve than calculating stops of light above and below middle gray on a linear light scale.
With my monitor I just have their false colors which changed my way of exposing and got me way better exposure than anything else, In Davinci I use a DCTL that gives me the same result as this but for grading and getting correct exposure. My only doubt sometimes even though I am getting pretty exposure through my monitor false colors, is Whether I should be Turning off my LUT first in the Monitor and then checking False Colors. Never really found a good tutorial about what is the best way to read them Thanks!
With EL Zone, you'll only get a proper exposure when it's used over the original Log footage. It doesn't work with a LUT at all. The fact that you can use false colour over a LUT is part of the problem for me. There's no standardisation!
@@extrashot Thanks for answering, so you recommend not having a Out enabled when viewing False Color on an external monitor ? That was kind of my question that I cannot find anywhere. With a click I can turn off my LUT's in my monitor and then click false Colors to check exposure. But I always thought it was good to check with the LUT I will be using in Post Rec 709. Thanks!
Can you make one for the Ronin 4D? I can’t even use my SmallHD monitor with my 4D because it won’t recognize the 4D. So I can’t use the EL Zone system. HELP!!!!
Hey, I couldn't "have" Bardot either.
That's a much greater loss. She's French!!!
😂
I have also always felt false color and how it was implemented by most monitors was rather useless. It was designed for normal standard video and not very suitable for log video and yet people use it. Sure it tells us more than a single zebra but nothing really lines up well. It was not meant to be a one size fit all thing. Proper false color like on a Flanders display is adjustable. We can set the values for each color and the color. We can essentially set it to work like stops if we want to and just show what’s important to us for the format we work with.
How every other manufacturer has implemented false color was a very silly and lazy approach. Better than nothing some may say but I’m not sure that’s true. If it’s very inaccurate and one has to put so much guess work into what it’s doing per camera it could actually be doing more harm than good. The -rob;em is people look at a color and assume its value is correct no matter what camera is used. If one carefully figures out what value each color means for their camera and format then it can be used but it’s far from perfect. Many times a single color will transition in the middle of a stop or not represent a stop at all. It’s just some random value that may or may not work.
Also confused by the patent and I had an email exchange with ED himself about where he wanted me to pay a license fee just to mention the existence of EL Zone in an app I am making. I will no longer include it for that reason.
Ironically what he created is helping the industry but so hurting it at the same time,e time. The tool is there but many will never be able to get it for that licensing reason. Like you said it’s not rocket science to find the IRE value per stop. Any false color system is somewhat based on that. Using a color change per IRE value that has some meaning like middle gray, +1 stop and so forth.
Thank you for the considered reply. I'm amazed you got to talk about licencing fees with ED. Were you making an app to include EL Zone? He talked about releasing one at first but nothing happened. I can't help feeling the industry is losing out because of the way this is being managed. The false colour on the Flanders is great, but that cost puts it out of reach for many!
@@extrashot I was making a reference app that would include EL Zone just as a reference so people were aware of it. Basically free marketing and encouraging people how much better it is to false color.
It’s also my hope manufacturers ditch the lame form of false color and adopt EL Zone.
Oh well. It’s possible he just misunderstood what I was trying to do.
What software or website did you use to make the LUT?
I used Davinci Resolve to make the LUT for SLog3 but it would be easy to make a LUT for any Log curve as Davinci already has the gamma's for most cameras built in. You just have to divide the Wide Gamut data (timeline) into stops before applying a colour to each division.
@@extrashot Excellent, thank you!
@extrashot would be great if you can do a tutorial about how to do this in davinci. No need specify exactly which system you are using.
Your problem is that you just put out a video showing that you are using the exact process and using the patent by reference - if you had came out of nowhere saying that you have created a LUT using stops for false colors and never mentioned Ed's system - he wouldn't have a case for a lawsuit for a utility Patent. The US utility patents are a cash grab and are only as good as the success of defending it. It maybe the fact that companies want to cash in on the marketing and the use of the use of the Name more than just getting the product in use.
He uses cool colors below middle grey and warm colors above. But as a colorist - I did some consulting on a DCTL for Resolve and suggest that the cool colors and the warm colors swatches should use the RGB color wheel reference and go clockwise on the wheel.
I have no idea why Ed Lach chose the order of his swatches. I imagine that reverse engineering and using the colors in the order just mentioned that there is no way a patent holder could make claim. He also uses 1/2 stop on each side of middle grey then back to full stops. So if you used two 1/2 stops outward from middle grey - the false color would be even better on a face to see that transition.
just like how u need to know the gamma curve for the correct monitoring, you need the same with arri false color
I used Davinci Resolve to make the LUT so you don't need to know the whole gamma curve, just the position of middle grey. Resolve already has the gamma curves for most cameras.
@@extrashot Yeah i just mean that EL Zone isnt more "universal" than Arri False Color in a way. As you need to make the LUT based on a gamma curve or else itll be wrong. Now for how the exposure values are split up is another thing, i do prefer what EL Zone does in that sense. But you need to know the gamma curve being used to get an accurate EL Zone just like you need it with Arri False Color. Blackmagic for example uses false color in their cameras and it is based on which gamma curve you use in camera, and you can also put it in when using false color in post. EL Zone is just a different distrobution of exposure values than Arri False Color, but they essentially do the same thing, map exposures to different colors. Arri prioritizes Clipping points and skintones whilst EL Zone prioritizes even stops
Is it not limited to 12 stops ? Mmm Shame a DoP has gone down this rather questionable patenting road , especially this one. It's like trying to patent back light.
The Atomos version looks like +/- 8 stops although the end two are just the black and white. I don't know why they originally limited to 6?
for anyone interested in making their own el zone lut th-cam.com/video/iXrR0CMFNZY/w-d-xo.html
This is brilliant... thank you. 👍
Really simple, just use a different color palette for the system and call it FU system, you've avoided the patent issue.
They need to put this in the Atomos Shinobi. Not sure why they haven’t yet.
They said they will in the Shinobi II
@@vanrazwhere can I see their response?
@@426Studios they said it on reddit on a review post and some of their instagram posts in the comments
"EL Zone is coming very soon, we have all the other modes but need to implement EL zone now as we just finished it for Ninja and Shogun, is on the rodmap for an update soon."
Coming from a comment from atomos.
@@vanrazthanks for the info!
It looks as if you are experiencing the same problem with EL zone on the Ninja when feeding SLog3 into it. It won’t display any black parts of the image which it’s supposed to do if EL zone would be implemented properly on the Ninja. On other monitors like SmallHd EL zone displays black in the darkest parts
I've just checked and zero light is displayed as black on my Ninja. Are you sure the Ninja has detected the correct Log on the input signal page?
(Just so you know, the EL Demo on screen was faked from my LUT as there's no way to record the Ninja display!)