SSDs Are Getting Even Faster - NVMe 2.0
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Learn about NVMe 2.0 and how it'll make your SSDs - and even your hard drives - faster.
Leave a reply with your requests for future episodes, or tweet them here: / jmart604
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Love it when newer advances help make older tech even better.
Free buffs! :D
Imagine adding Apple to this sentence
@@IneffaWolf the company that slows down old products after a couple years? And has opposed right to repair
@@IneffaWolf they literally pay companies to throw away old phones instead of recycling/refurbishing them as well. They want to have the image of sustaining old products because Apple but they also purposely keep design flaws in their products so it has a chance to break sooner or later - and where does Apple want you to go to repair your phone? Their own repair shop.. which you pay a whole premium for a cheap component to where you may as well throw away the old phone and buy a new one
@@DeerJerky but then again, their 2015 phones work just fine with the newest ios. Where else would you get that?
Ill be telling my kids about the days of loading screens
"Back in my day we had to wait for games to load"
"Yeah sure grandpa, take your pills"
@@DeadpoolPlayz MOM, Grandpa's at it again!
Silence! It is the Elder. He who speaks of floppy disks....
@@ScottGrammer from the times when they were actually floppy
@@bradhaines3142 Indeed. Visions of my Commodore 1541 and 1571 drives!
Hopefully older SSDs will become more cheap
So we can buy a 120gb ssd
Absolutely will
Buy used but check the current conditions and lifetime writes, i got a great deal on a 500gb 860 Evos that has a 660gb total lifetime writes for $55
Probably not with the ongoing shortage the prices are increasing. Maybe in the future
We are talking about future only
The days of the loading screen become more and more countable.
Don’t worry, companies will still figure out how to unoptimize things.
@@tiestofalljays That.........and 8K, then 16K ect. that we don't really need, just to make textures larger. (and for planned obsolescence)
Just that we have just as long and just as many loading-screens nowadays as there were 30 years ago.
@@DigitalHaze65536 Resolutions (well, pixel density) and refresh rates are at least very sensible development to follow as there are hugely diminishing returns after some physiological point, and there's no danger of getting stuck in update cycles with those two. Of course, other specs will matter too.
@@JoonasD6 having a high enough resolution would able them to have more grass/leafs etc that would not look like pixel vomit. Ofc at somepoint you can just use good aa and resolution will get harder and harder to notice between higher ones
Also with bifurcation of pcie lanes and pcie 5.0 becoming the standard and CPUs having more lanes I can imagine it's easier to have more hard drives connected without needing extra controllers.
I bifurcate regularly.
This moment where we are talking about pcie 5.0 becoming the standard and here I am with my pcie 3.0 pc... Sadge
@@realmothbuterfli Not so long ago I used PCIe 2.0 and many are still using it because those old i7s still rock
@@realmothbuterfli Well, since PCIe 6.0 was this month already in draft 0.7... www.anandtech.com/show/16704/pci-express-60-status-update-draft-071-coming-soon-final-release-by-end-of-year
Real manufacturing and sales take a long time from ratification, but it sure looks like we're advancing way more quickly now than between versions 1, 2, 3, 4. I just hope GPU manufacturers this time actually implement the full specs and we don't get another "PCIe 4 has been out for years... let's implement resizable BAR like it's a grand new feature we are bestowing to people! Nevermind it was already in PCIe 3.0 specs."
?? How do you reduce the number of I/O controllers with bifurcation?
a) If I have a "x8" PCIe slot and connect a PCIe adapter that has two, M.2 SSD slots then I still have one SSD controller per SSD.
b) you said "hard drives" but I wasn't sure if you meant HDD's or SSD's... but if you mean HARD DRIVES then why exactly do you need bifurcation for this? If you want the full bandwidth of a PCIe slot to handle, say, EIGHT HDD's then buy a controller that has eight SATA connections. No need to bifurcate a "x8" connection into "x4x4" and run that way (plus you'd then be running TWO SATA controllers off of each "x4" lane for this to work in which case you've INCREASED the number of SATA controllers)
c) PCIe v5.0
That is coming to desktop but I'd expect some motherboards to have it for the top M.2 SSD slot only, or just add more USB Type-C etc off of the chipset. Possibly add PCIe v5.0 to just the "x16" (graphics card) slot but probably not the entire board due to the engineering challenges that add cost to something almost nobody would benefit from.
James seems to get the densest tech scripts...I appreciate it. He is clear and easy to understand.
nice to hear they're getting faster only for the manufacturers to secretly sell them slower at some point :(
If they get caught they get sued. Its illegal to do it
@@DeadpoolPlayz so is selling hdd's with lower spec marketing as if they're not (WD). Also colluding on RAM pricing...but they make so much money in those years that a lost lawsuit is just operational cost. + they have a kind-of-a monopoly so people will still have to buy from them.
Profit
@@DeadpoolPlayz Absolutely false. Only if they drop below published specifications (which, btw, are subject to change without notice) would you have a legal recourse.
Also, you should acquaint yourself with the term 'up to'.
There's a reason ADATA's project page didn't say 'PHISON controller' but rather' triple-core controller', etc. etc. etc.
@@lolish1234 WD never sold 'lower spec' anything as their marketing did not state 'CMR'. You just (incorrectly) inferred it.
They also never specified 5400/5900/7200 RPM operation.
You looked, saw "Red" and filled in the gaps yourself based upon your assumptions.
Monopoly means one company. You're thinking of oligopoly or cartel.
@@tim3172 except they literally did sell them as 5400RPM. WD's excuse was that "5400RPM doesn't refer to actual RPM, it refers to a performance class comparable to old 5400RPM drives." Dunno if they actually managed to win with that argument though, I stopped following the case before it was over.
So mechanical Defrag did something similar and when solid state came out it was advertised as no more defrag. Now there’s defrag I’m solid state… cool
it isn't defrag, it is not fragmenting in first place
you still don't want to defragment most SSDs because benefits are tiny and you are just making it wear out more quickly by doing it
but not getting it fragmented? that's a perfect solution
@ Defrag or not fragmenting: the same difference.
The reason why is also the same: faster and less wear and tear. The details may change, but it is the same logic.
Now that I'm thinking about it: is this not how books are stored in libraries for the same reasons?
@@dirkvandaele4466 no it isn't, if you fragment the disk, then during defragmentation, you wear it down more than if you did not defragment and left it as is... if you not fragment in first place, there is no unnecessary wear down
defragging on ssds is still a thing, windows will just handle it differently by only defragging it every month rather than every week and will also incorporate TRIM (hence why its called defrag and optimise and not just defrag nowadays)
@@FluorescentGreen5 yes :) and lower fragmentation while writing on disk means lower need for this kind of defrag and optimise :)
so pretty cool improvement, assuming it will actually work well
So is this kinda like hardware-level defragmentation for NVMe's??
No, even better than that. This is real-time defrag almost.
@@Koffiato non-fragmentation? The file isn't split in the first place
@@Koffiato Why not? Real time defrag can't be on hardware level??
It's just optimizing the data moves to save cell read/writes. The fragmentation made it harder to move one block of data, because that block could be in multiple "movable parts", so you'll need more headroom to shuffle around, and also more time.
Can't wait to boot up my pc 0.04 seconds faster.
And have more space and last longer.☺️
ssd users be like
NVME spinnng rust kinda makes sense - i'm sure in a couple of generations computers will be ditching SATA on the CPU/chipset
Kinda sad.. I’m invested heavily in many SATA ssds and hdds lol
The overhead of AHCI is also terrible, therefor likely a waste of energy
@@tanmay______ on the contrary, I now only buy NVMe. Less cables, more speed. Maybe in the future there will be more slots for m.2. Also I guess in the future there will be dunno PCIe cards for SATA or something. Niche case but sure your drives will be usable too.
@@blackbomber72 There are already PCIe cards for SATA so they'll be fine
@@DantalionNl It's a good thing. Sata is slow as balls, dude.
The extra endurance sounds good, but still gonna need a lot more convincing for QLC drives.
I'd like to see 3D Xpoint make a return for SSDs - didn't realise how underrated it was until a few weeks ago.
XPoint has 2 problems - price (a lot of that is simply cause it does not have the large scale of production), and the way the data is transferred once it has been provided by the optane-module. Cause right now, if you have PCIe optane storage, the time it takes optane to deliver the data is lower than it takes the rest of the PC to get the data from the pins of the module down to the CPU.
@@ABaumstumpf A bit more investment wouldn't improved the technology. The 4k random r/w's are about 6 to 7 times faster than the fastest PCIe 3 SSDs, despite sequentials being lower. It certainly had potential.
Still running 3xRAID 0 Optane as boot drive here. Still rocks. I'm glad it's still alive and didn't die so we can get more technologies out there.
Computers are too fast...
Back in my day; we had to wait for the woodpecker to put the data on a rock.
what happened to data crystals they were talking about in the 1990's. actually having usable tech
Storing data in crystals or some other media - the tech has been developed, the storage-density was quite decent, but that's about it.
The Crystal-approach is still being used, but it is very expensive, incredible slow in comparison, and single-write only - but great for long-term storage.
It is just that flash-memory in general has become way cheaper and faster to the point that right now it is, together with HDDs for bulk and longer storage, the best option.
@@ABaumstumpf its not single write, but you cant delete anymore and would have to do too much annoying shit to write a 2nd time. what do you mean by too expensive? the multi kilowatt laser that needs to burn the data in?
@@tarkitarker0815 the crystals were single-write cause the way the data was stored was by introducing large defects in an otherwise near perfect crystal - there is no way to "heal" the crystal anymore.
And yeah, not only the strong laser but high quality crystals as well.
@@ABaumstumpf yeah but what are artificial diamonds costing? like 20 dollars for a good one. its not like artificial diamonds arent a thing, and those are nearly the only ones really pure.
Yes! They finally did what I’ve been commenting all over the internet for. Make the standard go across all drive types. Now we are closer to one port or one cable for every drive type. You can plug u.2 or hdd right into the same port.
TechQuicky respects ssd hippa laws. They didn’t show the brand or model of ssds in the therapy session.
*HIPAA
If you're going to talk about it, get it right.
You guys are one of my favourite channels for the latest tech news and when I need a refresher on how to do something etc.
Wow, this was explained so clearly! Impressive!
I love it when I get an ad that stars Linus in it on a channel run by lInus
HDD reaching 500MB/s. This is the best news that was presented in this video. I am excited for that kind of performance. (:
That still begs the question of why NVMe. Sata is capable of that and won't waste nearly as many pcie lanes.
@@ikkuranus Good point. Are you able to fully saturate an nVme drive or two?
Great video with clear explanations between SATA and NVMe SSDs!
This world deserves tech heroes like James :) great vid!
This was really informative, thank you
Another reason why you'd want NVMe hard drives is because... of Shingled Magnetic Recording. SMR drives have terrible performance problems because they have the same overwrite limitations as flash storage... but with far less IOPS to play with, because it's gotta move a physical headstack over a spinning disk. So they wind up being unacceptably slow when they have to do literally any read-modify-write. The Zoned Namespaces feature, AFAIK, was actually cribbed from the SATA/SAS specs for host-aware SMR because it just so happened to be a useful abstraction for flash media as well.
Also, I have no clue if any OS actually can take advantage of zones yet.
Um… if the new “zones” are physically allocated, and so you use the same bit of SSD with specific software and you use the same software a lot, won’t you wear out those physical cells faster than the wear levelled areas which are spread all over the drive? Unless I’ve missed something this is a massive failure point.
Imagine if MS Word’s temp files are all in the same physical areas all the time… those bad boys are being created and deleted constantly!
don't mind me just replying so I get notified when this gets answered
I'm guessing that the drives would still be able to move the zones around. The only limitation being that they have to be moved as a whole
I wanna follow this feed
That’s so obvious that I doubt they haven’t thought of that or accounted for it. Who knows how it fully works yet anyways
Waiting until this is answered
Faster, tho some faster ones can already be heard, the high freq whine
That's Linus.
@@AwkwardFistbump lol
Ketchikatchikatichicakitchaket.
But they are not spinning faster just more dense with better actuators.
Storing data sequentially is probably a bigger advantage the more bits you store per cell (MLC, TLC, QLC, PLC). Thus NVME 2 should help counteract the degradation in speed and longevity that comes with using Multi-level cells.
Thank you, Teacher James. Good man.
I'm surprised they didn't mention the announcement by motherboard manufacturers that they plan on phasing out SATA ports and replacing them M.2 ports that can connect 2.5" and 3.5" that have M.2 interfaces using a cable. This means that NVMe 2.0 supporting hard drives will be important for all hard drives, not just the faster ones, simply because there won't be any SATA ports anymore. I mean, you could install a SATA controller card, but let's not go there.
Great! Very informative!
thanks for the helpful info
I still use hard drives
I just love the way James doesn't wear LMG Merch like others.
Who says he doesn‘t wear LMG underwear?
@@sonpham3438 Let's Ask Him.
Nice and succinct. So succinct there was room for jokes! Being that succinct takes (unappreciated) work! Well done!
As usual, great video guys, just a quick little note though (hopefully someone reads this :) ) The little slide that's on the video about USB revisions has a couple of bits of misinformation. The connectors that are labelled as USB Mini and USB Micro are in fact Mini B and Micro B, and the one labelled as USB Micro B, while correct, it's specifically the revision for USB 3.0. I know it doesn't make much difference and I'm probably just splitting hairs, but I thought it would be ok to point it out.
I'd like to see an updated video about cables and interfaces. :D about DP, HDMI, and the different USB types (all of them :D ). The old guide (about display cables) is 7 years old. Did i miss any newer one?
im excited HDDs will become more expensive than SSDs due to the advances for Hard drive tech
But prices have been stalling for years! We finally need affordable 8TB+ SSDs!
Ya for my steam library
@@chillnspace777 I'll bet you're one of those "27 minutes of play" on every game guys. My 1tb is plenty for steam.
Already a couple of decently priced 8tb ssd's exist
I am waiting for those to come down to 100-200 usd. Then they will be great for system and storage. But by then 4-8k resolution will need even more storage space 🤓
@@la7dfa Yeah, I am usually a few years behind in my video archive's resolution because of storage requirements, but after having updated to mostly FullHD, it's getting too expensive to and so I don't even have backups anymore :(
And I'm here running windows 11 from a 5400 RPM HDD
same
Oof.
What does it matter, most OS are literally the least dependent on fast storage, the only thing affected is loading it at reboot or waking up from hibernation, tho no one uses that today anyway
@@NotEvenDeathCanSaveU you have no idea what we go through
File Explorer not responding
Task manager takes 2 minutes to load
Disk usage always 100% because of windows defender that you can't turn off
Windows 10 is a nightmare on 5400rpm HDD
@@NotEvenDeathCanSaveU bruh youre joking right?
Great video!
Good video! 🤙
Techquickie is what I originally subscribed to LTT for.
Wow this is great. Might be enough to get me to replace my trusty crucial p2.
Omg it's happening
Gonna be able to run several partitions on a single SSD in raid 0
current nvme ssds are so fast already. but I guess a next gen one would be better in the long run.
I feel the same. NVM tech is so fast already and it's not like the read/write algorithms are inefficient either. To me, they should concentrate on making the read/writes less destructive to the NVM hardware. They last a while, but nothing like mechanical hard drives.
@@XLessThanZ That isn't really true anymore. And it depends HEAVILY on the size of the ssd relative to the data put on it. A 1TB ssd holding, say 100GB will be able to write those twice as many times as a 500GB ssd holding the same 100GB of data. It will also perform faster with more size. The tech works entirely differently. And ssds of 500gb or more now outlast sata drives.
@@armyofninjas9055 I'm still kinda sketchy about the life of NVMe/SSD. I have hundreds of SATA hard drives that have lasted 10 years and still going. I've never used SSD/NVMe that long, but mostly because I don't trust them the last that long. Could be though. Thanks for that heads up.
@@XLessThanZ The FUD is strong with you. Just like your engine doesn't blow through the hood when your warranty expires, nor does your SSD die when you hit its stated TBW values.
TBW values (unless listed as ISO destruction) are the WARRANTY values the manufacturer sets.
Your hard drive or the controller on the SSD itself will likely die LONG before the NAND hits its (actual) write endurance.
@@XLessThanZ I still have one intel 80gb ssd which i bought around 12 years ago and it was in frequent use for about half of the time.....quite well filled as it is system and data drive in one. (btw it did cost 200€...for 80gb....unbelievable by today’s standards).
Another ssd in my desktop is 8 years old now, and still in regular use. So 10 years with normal use is absolutely no problem I would say.
Q: were going back to spinners! Were finding that NVME drives (King WD, Crucial) are severely throttling in fan enclosures when copying over around 200GB. Slower than an enterprise spinner.
this background music is SO GROOVY GOT DAMN IM HAVING A PARTY WHILE LISTENING TO JAMES EXPLAIN HARDDRIVES TO ME
WOW you mean tech is improving?! what a concept!
A nice quick update, a quickie even.
Just remember to buy your SSD when it first launches, else you'll get a model with lower specs
sponsored comment
/s
The moment reserved blocks for long, linear writes got mentioned... holy shit, those advertised speeds are actually gonna become relevant now!
The background track playing is at such a level that and has a particular bass beat that I literally thought my downstairs neighbour had her music turned up again. Didn’t realise it was the background music until I tried turning up my tv louder to drown out the neighbour. #doh 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️😂😂😂
It would most likely be ad least a year until the first NVME2 enterprise grade devices are released so they will most likely get released around mid to late next year while consumer grade devices will most likely be released a bit later like a couple of months later for example! :)
Aaaaaaaaaaaand my hardware is already outdated
James used to be my least favorite presenter but idk maybe it’s something about him finding his style over time but he’s solid AF now.
Idk how LTT does it but they take literally anyone with raw potential and karate kid them into strong talent.
Is there some kind of course or something they’re taking that I’m not aware of? How can I learn this power?
Do we need new motherboards, and will there be a nvme2 port? Or is this purely a revision to the drives them selves?:)
NVMe attaches itself to PCIE so I think the revision suits to the SSD itself than to the motherboard.
As both will be using the same old PCIE
It would probably need a new mobo. Unless the NVMe port can somehow support a mega-driver update 😂
Mobo BIOS update.
@@GojiHusky dude wtf do you even talk about. nvme 2.0 doesnt make the drives much faster, pcie 5.0 nvme still use the m key port, the m key port still has many unused pins that can be used for features, but these features here wont even slow the fully loaded drive down while being loaded in. and windows updates drivers for things beyond your understanding quite often on the fly, even on very old motherboards.
Can't wait for mobo's with a lot of NVME slots!! No more power & sata cables!!!
I'd love 2 m.2 nvme in my pc! A secondary m.2 would be great!
The moment of mental discord when you're watching an lmg video and get a pulseway ad with linus in it
i got a linus tech tips ad and i was so confused i taught it was part of the video
I really hope that nvme 2.0 standard will be backward compatible
Did I just get an ad starring Linus before this video?
Modern SSDs don't need to be over-provisioned the same way as old ones did; incoming data is buffered into the onboard ram before writing to flash. Zoned namespaces should significantly reduce the load on the controller when sequential writes are being preformed concurrently (like on a server). This is the biggest advantage in my opinion.
They should bring back the 5.25" HDD with like 200TB of storage.
Would have bigger latency but thats okay in certain applications
Zoned Namespaces for the future!
Zoned Name Spacing: Defrag is baaaaaack!!
I just learned I don't need a SATA SSD when I literally have a PCIe Mini and 2 half height slots, one of which is a Centrino 6205 being replaced by a 6300 cause I have a 3rd grey antenna to use and get tri-band internet instead of 2. And I found high class SSDs on eBay, apparently the half height mini SSD can go up to a whole terabyte, I got an MLC 512GB and a full height MLC 2TB-YES 2TB.
Nice to see the handheld remote is MIA. 👍
I didn't mind it at all. It changes nothing, and who cares? :)
How many years till we can actually buy mainstream ssds with this standard?
This video is so true, My wallet can’t even catch up to the price tags nowadays.
In my country sata ssd and entry lvl nvme have the same prices so it’s a no brainer to choose nvme. Sata ssds need to be a lot cheaper though.
Maybe then the next regular Raspberry Pi can get a built-in NVMe1 socket as an option?
We were already at a point of diminishing returns with PCI-E 4 with only small percentage boosts in performance in real world applications
And by small I mean basically impossible to notice the difference
For now.
@@nikovbn839 I mean even if we got ssds that were even faster they would probably only show significant gains in benchmarks and in the GTA V loading screen
Most games on sata ssds are practically indistinguishable to faster ssds in loading times (at least to the point where an upgrade would just be for flexing)
I mean the only real-world use faster ssds have is for 4k video editing but even that's dumb considering you don't need a 4k playback if your video if it's only gonna be in a small window inside your editing software
In the near future, your friend will look at your system and say "which is your graphics card here by the way?"
shout out to these guys for going above and beyond for the thumbnail O=b
Will you need a new mobo for this? Or could it just be enabled after a bios update?
No need for any new hardware, it's basically just a moderate latency and lifespan upgrade compared to NVMe 1.0
0:14 did he say " intel now " ? That was a good pun idea
'enterprise' level HDDs already operate on 12 Gb/sec SAS3 tho, they aren't limited by SATA3 like entry level SSDs are
Me with only an HDD in my system: alright
Hmu on WhatsApp and I'll send you a cheap SSD (only EinBaumHaus tho, no one else)
@@Chaosdude341 bruh
@@Chaosdude341 wat
@@Chaosdude341 wasn't expecting to see such an act of kindness here, hope it isn't a scam
@@houssamalucad753 I'm thinking that it's really a scam, but idk
So does this new standard require motherboard support? CPU support? Or can you plug a NVMe 2.0 into any NVMe slot?
Add to that. Does this require software support? Or does the OS just bunch all data from a program together automatically?
I'm still hoping we'll have AFFORDABLE 16TB or larger consumer SSDs soon. Not likely but it would be great to replace my 220TB spindle array soon.
That black SSD matched with the skin tone. Nice.
I was just learning how to make a loading screen for a application
I just got a pulse way ad with baby face Linus
any love for the battery....
No support for floppy disks? They are also great at sequential reads...
Does SATA even support floppy? I think those died off with IDE/PATA
Good one 🤣🤣🤣
Can’t wait for using nvme for running windows and using sata ssd for storage to be standard.
than chia come and say: i hear you want SSD for your PC...
SSDs prices are largely uneffected
@@nielsbishere they were a little at the start actually
CHia: for the complete fools that think lots of useless data that comes from no where , is never used, but written lots of times wearing out your storage is worth something as long as it has the word 'mining' in it!
quality content
Sadly most "modern" qlc flashes can't even sustain a proper 1GB/s. If you buy a cheap ssd you most likely get a cheap ssd. It makes me sad how you can hardly get MLC nowadays.
That's because TLC is plenty fast and more practical.
I have a Samsung 970 Evo Plus. My friend just got a 980 for his build in a MSI Unify X570 board and it blows mine away. NVME are getting stupid fast
Any news about when will first SSDs with NVMe 2.0 support be released?
I got a ltt add before the video for pulsewave
A requests for a futere episode! what's the cracking noise a pc makes sometimes!?
I guess it won't just be the drives themselves that needs to support this new standard but the motherboards themselves too?
Can't wait for direct storage to be common.
I really liked the editing and performance in this video, it felt retro in a comforting way.
That T-shirt should be making color calibrations easier for the editor
😂
Oh its called over provisioning the traditional HDD needs to be defrag now it is called trimming in SSD or overprovisiining to save storage and for it to last long
It's the equivalent of defragmenting, but for SSDs.
I've got a few questions
Is this going to be like different versions of USB? Will it need new hardware to fully utilize the new standard or will it be a firmware update. Or a half way where mobo/cpu will support new 2.0 drives?