@@triggerbarPhD No, just seeing that the muzzle was even or in front of the chronograph leads me to assume the bullet beyond the chronograph won't register. A foot or two might make all the difference.
@@barrylitchfield8357 good eye. That could be it. I’ve tested a fair amount after this video and one thing for sure is I need to make sure I am past 16 yards for my target, that I have the lab radar set to rifle mode (lab radars have 3 modes, archery, pistol and rifle) which correspond to velocities of the projectile you are trying to capture. I’ve messed around with placement but I think I need to be more careful to be behind it. I don’t seem to have problems with capturing the bullet when a rifle is in front of it but maybe I need to with the 5.7 pistols.
I bet the decrease in velocity from the M&P is due to the gas system. The Rocks delayed blowback system is utilizing recoil energy to cycle the action as opposed to energy from expanding gasses, which would otherwise contribute to excellerating the bullet. Just a theory 🤷♂️
I think that’s the best one! I haven’t checked to see how supported the chamber is and want to do that next. I’ve seen velocity issues with guns that don’t fully support the chamber and leak gas that way.
@@triggerbarPhD I'm going to also lean to the gas + the .2", but mostly the gas system. It'd be worth some additional testing. Especially if hand-loading, and understand just what's happening. 100 fps @ the highs is no joke and definitely noteworthy. If someone were to see Ruger velocities w/4.94" barrel and think they can automatically get the same or more from the S&W 5" barrel. It will be interesting to see if S&W comes out with the non-threaded...and what that barrel length might be. Imagine the loss if it's 4.5", or less...and then compound with the gas system. The Fed AE might be whistling out of the barrel at a mere 1450 fps. hah! for a whopping 187 ft-lbs!! yikes!
I just did some simple math and I don't think it's the gas system and it might actually be the 0.2 inch extra length... The case length of a 57 is 2.244 inches meaning each barrel has an "effective length" of 2.956" and 2.756" respectively. We can then determine that the effective length of the S+W is 93% the length of the rock. Interestingly though, it retains 96% of the velocity. Also, we can calculate an average velocity per inch of barrel in each pistol. The rock has 761.5 fps/in The S+W has 787.7 fps/in All of this seems to suggest that the operating system in the Smith may actually be more efficient... Hypothetically, if velocity per inch was constant, then the Smith with 5.2 in barrel would have a average velocity of 2328fps CLEARLY all of this if very simplistic and does not take into account all the factors at play and also this makes many presumptions. It is interesting none the less and may add some perspective on the topic of this comment section.
@johnscaduto9332 you’ll have to checkout a future video I did on the topic. I since have acquired another rock with a 4.7” barrel. The rock with the 4.7” barrel has the exact same muzzle velocity as the 5” M&P. I’ve done several ammo tests where that has held true now. I like your thinking though!!
Thanks for the velocity comparisons. Tools & Targets did a gel test between SS195LF and SS198L. While i dont remember the differences between the velocity, it was a greater difference than these two pistols. Gel performance was identical. I say dont worry about potentially meaningless differences and choose the pistol that gives tangible advantages for your use case.
Very wise words. It’s not much but I was just trying to highlight that there is a difference. I have been doing tons of testing with the Rock lately and I am not going to get back to the M&P which I feel has just had fewer issues.
@@calangel sorry, I meant I’m going back to doing a lot more testing on the M&P! I did a lot of burn downs (just testing with a lot of ammo) and had some issues with the Rock but now I’m going back to the M&P and really test reliability. Sorry it was confusing!
Excell Arms made a 5.7 in the ‘Automag’ platform with an 8.5 in barrel, before Ruger made it’s 5.7….. the down side is the Excell Arms 5.7 uses a single stacked mag….. they also made an AR platformed type 5.7 rifle.
Both of my magazines had that issue to varying degrees. One was a minor bind that has worked itself out.. the second gets a bind if I put in more than 16 rounds and is more consistent than the other one. From what I am hearing, this is something that works itself out with use.
Dont use federal the rounds are longer by a couple of mom's this causes the bind I used Spear gold dot which arent as long and haven't had a problem yet😊
Interesting. I used it to load the first mag, it was still pretty hard even with that loader. Did you have problems with the spring getting stuck after shooting a first time? It just happened to me the first time then seemed to get better.
It does easier but I still use it now because the rounds are so small and it’s faster. Initially my mags were very hard to load and I have strong hands.
Yours is the 4th video I've seen where the mag got tilted and let rounds fall free. 9 Mil and two others had the same issue. Hopefully S&W can fix the mags quickly.
Hmmm. That’s a long ways for a pistol. I believe they are high speed rounds and would have less drop than a 9mm at that range but I haven’t tried it personally.
@@scotopicvision well for me, I don’t have easy access (2 hour drive) to a 2 hundred yard range. I will bring it to my 100 yard range and see what I can get!
Which mean 321 ft-lbs vs 293 ft-lbs of energy, which is a decrease of 8.7% in muzzle-energy. Something a hand-loader would definitely want to fully understand so they can avoid a sweet little neck-separation by chasing that 100 fps that they do worry about.
Lol. Do you own videos then to show me how! I sling shot the slide once in this video and I didn’t ride it, all the other times I used the slide stop/slide release. No idea what you mean by yanking triggers. 😂 Appreciate the positive person you are hope that serves you well!
Since recoil is really a non issue with 5.7 I would much rather have the higher velocity of the PSA along with the better grip and less expensive magazines. The sight compatibility with Glock also gives the PSA superior sight options compared to the SW.
True. Please watch my recent video on issues of mounting the holosun 507k on the rock if you do go the rock route and want to mount and optic. Mounting an optic ruined my striker assembly housing…
I feel you on that I have a 407k and 507k on two different PSA’s and had to modify the screws to install on both. How PSA manage to mess that up I will never know..
@@youtubewatcher4792 yuck. I understood that screws could interfere with firing functions, what I didn’t get is that the screws could damage the housing. Seems like something that severe should have a ton of warnings and a message saying, order “xyz” screws for optic mounting. This came with no war warning so that upsets me.
I was waiting for this….thanks
Awesome! I have a few videos comparing them with lots of different ammo.
Your barrel is after the chronograph. Move back from the chronograph.
Has that been your experience with 5.7x28 rounds and the lab radar?
@@triggerbarPhD No, just seeing that the muzzle was even or in front of the chronograph leads me to assume the bullet beyond the chronograph won't register. A foot or two might make all the difference.
@@barrylitchfield8357 good eye. That could be it. I’ve tested a fair amount after this video and one thing for sure is I need to make sure I am past 16 yards for my target, that I have the lab radar set to rifle mode (lab radars have 3 modes, archery, pistol and rifle) which correspond to velocities of the projectile you are trying to capture. I’ve messed around with placement but I think I need to be more careful to be behind it. I don’t seem to have problems with capturing the bullet when a rifle is in front of it but maybe I need to with the 5.7 pistols.
I bet the decrease in velocity from the M&P is due to the gas system. The Rocks delayed blowback system is utilizing recoil energy to cycle the action as opposed to energy from expanding gasses, which would otherwise contribute to excellerating the bullet. Just a theory 🤷♂️
I think that’s the best one! I haven’t checked to see how supported the chamber is and want to do that next. I’ve seen velocity issues with guns that don’t fully support the chamber and leak gas that way.
@@triggerbarPhD I'm going to also lean to the gas + the .2", but mostly the gas system. It'd be worth some additional testing. Especially if hand-loading, and understand just what's happening. 100 fps @ the highs is no joke and definitely noteworthy. If someone were to see Ruger velocities w/4.94" barrel and think they can automatically get the same or more from the S&W 5" barrel.
It will be interesting to see if S&W comes out with the non-threaded...and what that barrel length might be. Imagine the loss if it's 4.5", or less...and then compound with the gas system. The Fed AE might be whistling out of the barrel at a mere 1450 fps. hah! for a whopping 187 ft-lbs!! yikes!
I just did some simple math and I don't think it's the gas system and it might actually be the 0.2 inch extra length...
The case length of a 57 is 2.244 inches meaning each barrel has an "effective length" of 2.956" and 2.756" respectively.
We can then determine that the effective length of the S+W is 93% the length of the rock.
Interestingly though, it retains 96% of the velocity.
Also, we can calculate an average velocity per inch of barrel in each pistol.
The rock has 761.5 fps/in
The S+W has 787.7 fps/in
All of this seems to suggest that the operating system in the Smith may actually be more efficient...
Hypothetically, if velocity per inch was constant, then the Smith with 5.2 in barrel would have a average velocity of 2328fps
CLEARLY all of this if very simplistic and does not take into account all the factors at play and also this makes many presumptions.
It is interesting none the less and may add some perspective on the topic of this comment section.
@johnscaduto9332 you’ll have to checkout a future video I did on the topic. I since have acquired another rock with a 4.7” barrel. The rock with the 4.7” barrel has the exact same muzzle velocity as the 5” M&P. I’ve done several ammo tests where that has held true now. I like your thinking though!!
That's what I think
Just picked one up today. Tried 3 places no one had ammo. Can’t wait to try it though!
That’s awesome! You will love it. Dang that’s stinks. My sportsman’s warehouse always has some but don’t know if you live by one. Good luck!
Thanks for the velocity comparisons. Tools & Targets did a gel test between SS195LF and SS198L. While i dont remember the differences between the velocity, it was a greater difference than these two pistols. Gel performance was identical.
I say dont worry about potentially meaningless differences and choose the pistol that gives tangible advantages for your use case.
Very wise words. It’s not much but I was just trying to highlight that there is a difference. I have been doing tons of testing with the Rock lately and I am not going to get back to the M&P which I feel has just had fewer issues.
@@triggerbarPhD I think maybe I missed what you meant. Are you saying you won't be going back to (using) the M&P? I'm a bit confused 😅
@@calangel sorry, I meant I’m going back to doing a lot more testing on the M&P! I did a lot of burn downs (just testing with a lot of ammo) and had some issues with the Rock but now I’m going back to the M&P and really test reliability. Sorry it was confusing!
@@triggerbarPhD no prob, I'll be right here ready to watch when you do!
Awesome, really appreciate it! At this point, I’m thinking the M&P is a more reliable gun. I need more testing though.
I had to break my M&P 5.7 mag springs in. I had loose rounds too at first. After a couple times loading and unloading the mags all was good.
That’s great info! Thanks for sharing. Makes me feel that confident it’s just break in.
Excell Arms made a 5.7 in the ‘Automag’ platform with an 8.5 in barrel, before Ruger made it’s 5.7….. the down side is the Excell Arms 5.7 uses a single stacked mag….. they also made an AR platformed type 5.7 rifle.
Cool! I need to check that out!
@@triggerbarPhD …. Give me a couple minutes….
Masterpiece Arms also has a 5.7 pistol...
@@calangel that’s pretty cool. Wish they offered it in like a 10” barrel though.
Thanks for doing this!
Both of my magazines had that issue to varying degrees. One was a minor bind that has worked itself out.. the second gets a bind if I put in more than 16 rounds and is more consistent than the other one. From what I am hearing, this is something that works itself out with use.
That has all been pretty much my experience as well.
Dont use federal the rounds are longer by a couple of mom's this causes the bind I used Spear gold dot which arent as long and haven't had a problem yet😊
You should have a magazine loader included with your 5.7 that makes loading the magazines to capacity a breeze.
Interesting. I used it to load the first mag, it was still pretty hard even with that loader. Did you have problems with the spring getting stuck after shooting a first time? It just happened to me the first time then seemed to get better.
@@triggerbarPhDdo you oil your mag springs when you get them? I typically do it with specialty mags like my schmeisser S60
Interesting. I’ve never done that and heard it wasn’t good because it causes it to collect dirt. Interesting, you do that?
@triggerbarPhD it depends on the spring...some actually need it. Some buffertube springs need oil as well.
@triggerbarPhD th-cam.com/video/w72pT9Vf10M/w-d-xo.html
This is the MAG I just had to oil, it's a dual spring MAG
I’m still using the loading assist tool that came with it.
Dang, it doesn’t loosen up?
It does easier but I still use it now because the rounds are so small and it’s faster. Initially my mags were very hard to load and I have strong hands.
Glad to hear that!
My first mag with the m&p had some failures as well. I started tapping the mags and haven't had a failure since
I’m hearing this pretty consistently now. You are the third or fourth confirmation of the temporary issue.
Yours is the 4th video I've seen where the mag got tilted and let rounds fall free. 9 Mil and two others had the same issue. Hopefully S&W can fix the mags quickly.
My experience has been that this self corrects after shooting two or three mags. I haven’t had that problem since early on. But yes, I agree!
Thought about getting a 5.7 for my girlfriend to carry 🤔 I figure the recoil would be manageable for her
I think she’d like this one. It’s big for carry but thin, which is nice.
Where can you get a good holster for the rock ?
I got mine from Nerd Holsters. I have another video on my channel where I show wearing it.
They say these 5.7x28 pistols are easy to shoot at 100-200 yards. Do you find the same?
Hmmm. That’s a long ways for a pistol. I believe they are high speed rounds and would have less drop than a 9mm at that range but I haven’t tried it personally.
@@triggerbarPhD so I just wrote the script for your next video!
@@donh1572 Hahahaa, yes!!
@@triggerbarPhD Hey! Why not! With a 25 yard zero your only looking at a 7 inch drop at 200 yards
@@scotopicvision well for me, I don’t have easy access (2 hour drive) to a 2 hundred yard range. I will bring it to my 100 yard range and see what I can get!
What magazine extension do you have on the rock??
Excess arms. They are awesome. YT isn’t a fan though if you get my meaning…
i wouldn't worry about 80 fps
100 FPS difference at the highs. ~4.5% difference.
Which mean 321 ft-lbs vs 293 ft-lbs of energy, which is a decrease of 8.7% in muzzle-energy. Something a hand-loader would definitely want to fully understand so they can avoid a sweet little neck-separation by chasing that 100 fps that they do worry about.
Thanks for sharing, I would probably go with the S&W.
Thanks Big J!!! Yah it’s fun!
Here is a good 5.7 Review. Another take. th-cam.com/video/2rGrLe0mvWA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing that, great review!
Riding slide an yanking triggers! 🤦♂️
Lol. Do you own videos then to show me how! I sling shot the slide once in this video and I didn’t ride it, all the other times I used the slide stop/slide release. No idea what you mean by yanking triggers. 😂 Appreciate the positive person you are hope that serves you well!
Since recoil is really a non issue with 5.7 I would much rather have the higher velocity of the PSA along with the better grip and less expensive magazines. The sight compatibility with Glock also gives the PSA superior sight options compared to the SW.
True. Please watch my recent video on issues of mounting the holosun 507k on the rock if you do go the rock route and want to mount and optic. Mounting an optic ruined my striker assembly housing…
I feel you on that I have a 407k and 507k on two different PSA’s and had to modify the screws to install on both. How PSA manage to mess that up I will never know..
@@youtubewatcher4792 yuck. I understood that screws could interfere with firing functions, what I didn’t get is that the screws could damage the housing. Seems like something that severe should have a ton of warnings and a message saying, order “xyz” screws for optic mounting. This came with no war warning so that upsets me.
I agree a warning would have been nice or they could have just tapped the slide properly so this is not an problem. Lol!
Absolutely!!
Lmao