15 Things Wrong With Marvel's Civil War Comic - Atop the Fourth Wall
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara comes up with 15 things that are wrong with the event comic Civil War!
atopthefourthwa...
Originally uploaded July 4th, 2016.
ORIGINAL INFO: 15 things wrong with Marvel's event comic featuring heroes fighting heroes! ...well, one of them, anyway...
Okay so, the Nitro bit makes me smile a bit because it reminds me of how Marvel chose to resolve that dangling plot thread. Many of you probably noticed that Wolverine, probably the second or third most popular character in the MU was absent for most of this event, just doing cameo appearances here and there. The reason why he barely shows up is because Logan dipped out almost immediately, to go find Nitro.
And what’s hilarious is that EVERYBODY is telling him to drop it, and Logan’s just like “no, fuck off, this is what we ALL should be doing. The supervillain doesn’t get to walk away because you guys are debating stupid shit!”
Plus, he also uncovered a scheme that may have caused even more destruction by stopping a corrupt CEO from giving out Mutant Growth Hormone pills to supervillians in order for them to cause more destruction that his company would clean up.
@@legomaniac213 Damn. Wolverine over here being the most productive character in Civil War.
And that's why people love Wolverine.
though, Nitro being stronger than usual also had to be laid to the feet of the people of the reality show, as the producers (not the new warriors) gave Nitro drugs to potentiate his powers to that extreme, for spectacle.
yeah the producers should have been punished (granted Wolverine killed the responsible for that) but yeah they weren't gonna make people forget especially when they blamed the people goofing off while fighting the super villains
@@EkoBahamut Wait, it was the producers? I always thought that he boeught them to other supervillain.
I just realized there's a third reason why Spidey making his identity public was a bad idea: It was what led to the events of One More Day.
Linkara knew it just didnt want to burst anymore blood vessels
It wouldn't have mattered in the end. Even if Spider-Man didn't unmask and kept his identity secret, even if Civil War never happened, Joe Quesada would've forced someone to write One More Day or forced some way to have Peter and MJ break up.
And while I'd prefer that Peter and MJ stay together, I will admit that the idea of them getting a divorce isn't entirely a terrible idea, if it's handled the right way.
Their marriage getting a bit strained due to Peter Parker's double life as Spider-Man, leading to them getting a divorce? Not outside the realm of possibility, perfectly believable, and can open new possibilities for future stories, possibly with the chance of them getting back together. This happened with Peter B. Parker in Into The Spider-Verse, and if the stinger was any indication, there's a possibility they'll get back together and maybe start a family.
Selling their marriage to Mephisto to save the life of the dying Aunt "Why do the comics keep me alive even though I should've died back in the 80s?" May, an act which goes against everything the character stands for, and then erasing his memories of the whole thing and their marriage so we never see the fallout? The Ass-Pull to top all Ass-Pull, one that needs to be retconned and an example of why Joe Quesada needs to be fired.
Lets pretend this crap never happened. Im in denial it happened
but then No way home wouldnt have happened lol
To be fair the writers of this had no way of knowing that would happen, not saying that this comic isn't awful just saying that we can't blame them for that other awful comic.
Only good thing to come out of the Clor thing: Hercules killing him with his own fake Mijolnir while yelling "THOU ART NO THOR!"
Not gonna lie. That's pretty funny.
That was bad ass
We need a Hercules movie. Imagine the two having an epic bromance.
The problem is that instead of having two morally gray sides against each other, Iron Man and the Pro-Registration side are made clearly into the villains. Any justification that "they were supposed to win all along" doesn't change this fact.
Dennis Williams
How do you think they wrote this event, editorial mandates, too much drinking, an excuse to beat up iron man, just not caring, or just a rejected ultimate universe event script someone fished out to get some more money?
Oh crap , I’m incredibly sorry Noah Farmer, I only wanted to be funny, I never meant to go over the line, I changed it, so I hope it’s better.
Thanks Noah Farmer!
Richard Bradenson
It involves an idea where the story was a way to make Stan lee, Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby cry.
(You see why I removed it.)
*CIVIL WAR:* _Whose side are you on? Straight up fascism or untrained super-beings holding no accountability?_
"What do you think this A stands for? Ancient Egypt?!"
*Plays the Imperial March*
"Oi, what do yew think this A stands for? Australia?!"
Better than the cliche take-that to France. I guess nobody told CA about Charles DeGaulle. Even _I_ know about _him,_ from Bender's Big Score no less. >:(
France really does get crapped on a lot for surrendering against an opponent who, honestly, was much better prepared and equipped, even though the southern part of France remained unconquered. People forget just how much the French Resistance actually contributed to the war effort through espionage and sabotage, not to mention prepping and organising similar resistance movements throughout all of Europe.
Nobody saw the blitzkrieg coming. France were just unfortunate to be close to Germany. Meanwhile everyone else were truing to hide their heads in the sand pretending nothing bad would happen to them.
This is more related to the tie-ins but i love the fact that they immediately imprisoned Speedball, the only survivor of the New Warriors, and almost everyone hated him, apparently even more than they hated Nitro, who escaped after blowing the school yet no one cared except for Wolverine, and that after Wolverine caught him, no one talked or cared about him and kept hating Speedball and other super heroes instead of the one guy who actually killed everyone.
Oh wait, i meant i hate that fact.
no wonder Speedball went crazy
Namor had him imprisoned in Atlantis in his tie-in post-Civil War comic run Sub-Mariner: The Initiative, but yes, it was strange how Nitro was ignored by almost every hero, bar two anti-heros.
...and it was still nitro’s fault!
Even that wasnt without its flaws. Nitro blowing up Wolverine to the point where the only thing remaining was his Adamantium skeketon and he survives that. Roughly 85% healed by the end of the comic.
@Sparten 117 same with the other X-Men
“I feel like in the Marvel Universe they saw the Nazi’s bombing London during the Blitz and said it was the British’s fault for putting up those explodable buildings.”
Foreshadowing for his rant on Secret Empire
The bit with the Negative Zone prison is especially stupid when you consider that this event was happening at the same time as Annihilation, during which Annihilus led the armies of the Negative Zone on the warpath with the intent of destroying the entire universe *specifically* because everyone kept encroaching on his territory.
Meaning that three of the smartest people in the Marvel Universe decided it would be a great idea to build their super awesome high tech prison on *enemy territory in an active warzone*.
Imagine they just go to the prison at one point and everyone is dead.
@@thomasraines1396
There wasn’t enough communication to even consider that.
You forgot that Maria Hill also tried to trap all the heroes on BOTH sides in the Negative Zone when they were fighting in the Negative Zone prison. Brilliant idea, trap all the heroes in another dimension, just don't forget to tell all the supervillains the Earth is now basically defenseless!
This sounds like a Marvel equivalent of the "Now, everybody is on the same level" crap from JLA Act of God.
+Cobrasphere Worst this incident is canon
So, it's the equivalent of Amazon's Attack?
Wait, what? When? What issue?
I don't know which. I just remember that being something mentioned in the Comicshistorian's dramatic re-reading. I suppose that is part of why Maria Hill herself didn't get off scot-free like the rest of pro-registration faction.
Lest we forget, Civil War was character assassination on Tony Stark to such a degree that he was only redeemed when the first Iron Man movie with Robert Downey Jr. came out and was a smash hit, revitalizing both Stark as a beloved character and RDJ as an actor.
I appreciate that Linkara touched on the Registration act being akin to the Mutant act, because that's something the writers ought to have noticed from the get-go. People in the Marvel universe hate mutants, but plenty of mutants pass for human. Whose to say people don't think Ms. Marvel is a mutant, what with her abilities? You can argue that the government would claim Danvers' powers had an alien source, but why would people believe the government? We have people claiming the Lunar landing was faked, for crying out loud, whose to say people wouldn't suspect Squirrel Girl to be a mutant?!
That just speaks even poorer on Stark's behalf, because he's worked alongside mutants. He worked with Wolverine when they were Avengers. He should know the negative repercussions this kind of act would have towards so many innocent metahumans who might not even want to be heroes and just live out ordinary lives.
IT left him so hated the Marvel universe had to give him 2 different outs so he could be a good guy again
Out of genuine curiosity, what were those outs?
One of the outs at least had his wipe his memory out in an effort to protect the identities of the heroes from Norman Osborn after he took it.
Levitz9 Iron man was always the character. He’s has heroic intentions but leads to major pitfalls
If anything movie Civil War puts Cap in a worse light and makes Tony more sympathetic.
I like how Punisher respects Cap. I remember seeing an image of Punisher ripping apart a Skull sticker off a Cop car basically saying how it's wrong cops respect him and he then tells the officers "You want a real role model, his name is Steve Roger's and he'd be happy to know you"
why tho??? The punisher is basically a fascist, if he respects you you're doing something wrong.
See I really disliked that. While I absolutely agree that it's stupid for cops to use the punisher logo and goes against what cops SHOULD do, I think the character of frank castle would love it if cops did it. Now replace punisher with captain America or daredevil and it works perfectly. I get why they did it though, but I just don't think it really fits his character
@@ther0ach28 Hey the creator of The Punisher made that comic so that makes it good enough for me
@@K1ng1995 eh, I'd say it was just to poke at the cops using the symbol irl. Which I get. Cops should NOT support how the punisher does stuff. In comic or real life. However, doesn't mean it was good character stuff. I mean, the people who first wrote batman as a gun-ho murderer but if a modern day batman did that people would be skeptical of it
@@carcosacommune Nah, it’s more that he _knows_ he’s a terrible person in a lot of ways and kinda hates himself for it, hates when people idolize him and what he does, and respects people who are more moral than him.
I just realized that not a single person took the time & effort to point out that the Superhuman Registration Act would only apply to the USA! Any anti-Registration hero with a single working brain cell should've just left the US & let the pro-Registration side to stew in the proverbial pressure cooker set to explode in their faces they created by passing that Act!
Meanwhile the Sokova Accord was an international treaty that does not allow the Avengers to operate on a nation's soil without some form of government oversight from the nations that agreed to sign it (which approx 117 countries, including the US, agreed to sign).
Another positive that the Civil War film had: Remembering that there's an *entire planet* that has to deal with the fallout of superhuman conflicts!
Other countries already have a registration act in the comic (U.K and Canada are examples given during civil war, since the whole point is heroes=guns in the comic)
Plus do you really think spider-man and street level heroes can or want to move to mexico?
+alucardyoici I don't remember that being mentioned in the main series. So vital information revealed in a tie-in...comic book companies never learn.
There was a Alpha flight tie in and even then it's really inconsistent if Canada still have the registration or not
I'd like to point out that the Plunderer, a British villain who was kind of talked about in the review since he was killed by Punisher, joined Cap's side because in his mind, if the American Superhuman Registration Act was passed, it would only be a matter of time before it would be passed in other countries like the UK, so he wanted to fight it in the US before it spread.
munromister777 Captain britain and MI:13 series shows that the U.K pass an act lie that in a flash, and even before there was another hero registration there
"Maria Hill is an idiot."
Pretty much describes every instance of the character not played by Colbie Smulders
Especially the emh version
What's wrong with Earth's Mightiest Heroes Mariah Hill?
Spike Prime The scene where Hill tells Tony to turn the Avengers into S.H.I.E.L.D. agents while in the middle of a supervillain attack rubbed people the wrong way.
Duke Spubber Ah I don't remember that scene.
I do remember from other parts of the series where she was fairly okay. Mostly in the Skrull invasion plot where you really got where she was coming from.
Man do I hate Maria Hill! Even outside of Civil War she came across to me as a complete a**hole!
I was actually hoping Linkara would talk about the what-if comic that had a peaceful end to CW. Based on what I've heard, it's actually pretty good. Basically, from what I understand, when Tony asks Cap for that 5 minutes to talk on the oil rig, the first thing he does is tell Cap that he's scared. He doesn't necessarily support the Registration Act, so much as he's just terrified at what the Government may do if he doesn't support them, that it may be worse than just letting the Regulation Act pass (I believe it eventually turned out that someone was planning to create upgraded Sentinels that went after all costumed superheroes, not just mutants, as a backup plan, so yeah, he was pretty well-founded in that fear). This causes Cap to legitimately hear Tony out, confiding that he wants to trust Tony, but he just can't trust the people he works for. Tony points out that everyone, including the Government, trust Cap, and just maybe, if he goes pro-Reg, they may be willing to compromise with him. Cap reluctantly agrees, and Tony makes the public announcement that the entire Registration Act will be handled by Cap, an icon to heroes and civilians alike (and even some villains). Even though the Government never agreed to this, they know how much smoother things will go if they just follow it, and really see no problem in doing so, seeing as they DO, in fact, trust Cap with their lives, and fully understood his opposition to the Act all along. So, the Act is abandoned in favor of more or less the Marvel equivalent to DC's Hall of Justice, with Cap alone put in charge of registering heroes and keeping track of their information. If the government wants access, they have to go through him, which they're perfectly fine with, seeing as Cap is both an outstanding patriot AND a superhero. It all seems like a happy ending... Until you realize that the Watcher was showing Tony all of this as he mourned over Cap's grave, just to show him how he could've NOT fucked up. Dick move, Watcher! Dick move!
You know..i would like to read that story!
lsebastian9086 I may not be 100% accurate, as I only heard it through a friend who claims he owns the comic. In fact, I don't even know the name of the comic, only that it was one of two stories told after Cap's death, both told to Tony by the Watcher as alternate endings to Civil War, one for better, and one for worse. I'm not exactly a comic buff, but I do like a good story when I hear it, so yeah, if you can track it down, I definitely recommend giving it a read! :D
XshadOtakuX
Well, if you see your friend can you ask him what is the data of the comic, full one?
And..being comic buff or not, what one wants is a good plot.
It was "What If-? Civil War." marvel.wikia.com/wiki/What_If%3F_Civil_War_Vol_1_1
+Ironlord Shellhead (Slayton) Thank you! XD
For anyone interested:
There is a What-If story that takes place after the death of Captain America.
It has The Watcher visiting Tony at Steve's grave where he shows him a timeline where Iron man did something different when he met with Cap.
Which lead to the two of them talking things out after dealing with the Thor clone going rouge and the two ACTUALLY came up with a better arrangement where the Super Human Registration act benefited and was managed by a better person.
And all Tony had to do to lead to this timeline...by the words of Uatu himself
was to be honest
Here's how bad the death of Goliath was: the writers at Marvel actually realized the implications. There was a scene in one of the tie-in books where Baron Werner von Blitzschlag, an unrepentant former Nazi who'd been forced to help the pro-Registration side, actually went to Reed Richards and Hank Pym and started telling them how awesome they were for "cloning the Teutonic God to destroy the black man."
The writers, at least some of them, realized just how bad this act was. And yet it happened anyway.
@@BrakSplash If that is genuinely your reaction, then you couldn't have missed the point any harder had you shot in the entirely wrong direction and hit Mars.
And yet Bill Foster STILL hasn’t been brought back to life
Aw yes. Because to break out a certain paraphrase "When you need to add substance to your crappy story. Just add nazis"
I must've been a bit stupid in some way, because every time I've watched this video, I haven't understood what Linkara was trying to imply with those points. It wasn't until I discovered this comment a few days ago that I finally started to understand it.
@@wikiuser92Honestly, I get what you mean, although that’s why I didn’t like stuff like Marvel’s decoupling of Hydra from its reputation of trying to be the fourth Reich. Because it is very much the villainous organisation that could do the most damage out of sheer spite and bigotry.
You forgot one of the biggest things wrong with Civil War. The registration act itself! Mainly in that no one at Marvel actually wrote out exactly what the act entailed, saying 'it would be to complicated for people to understand'. Aka: They were just lazy.
This is a large part of what lead to Civil War being so bad, because none of the writers knew exactly how the law worked, they just had a vague understanding of it. This lead to them having radically different takes on, how one broke the law, what happened if you broke it, and how it affected the Marvel universe as a whole.
I think that can kind of tie into number 1, but yeah that should of been mentioned.
Yeah. Couldn't they start making the registration act *before* they started this comic event!?
He talks a little about it in number 12.
he has said that in his countdown of comics he'll never properly review - but yeah it should have been a pinpoint in this one for anyone who didn't watch the other video
They didn't want to know how it worked. If no one has the law written out, the law can be ... flexible to fit the needs of the story.
Plus, considering how weird the Marvel Universe laws must be in any event for things like vigilantes to exist, it would be weird to have, say, Spider-man hanging out with Daredevil whenever they fought crime just so he can find a legal loophole to get out of breaking the law.
Oh, my God, _thank you_! I freaking hated it when my parents said that "It doesn't matter who started it" bullshit. Yes, yes it does, dammit. And you know what? "Do as I say and not as I do" is bullshit too!
Always hated that. If the person who didn't start the entire thing didn't start it, then there would have been no problem in the first place. Don't start none, won't be none.
Although let's agree that Thanos technically started Civil War 2
Fuck that saying, man. My parents never said it (my dad knew from experience how bullshit it is), but my teachers always did. So what, I'm just supposed to let the bully beat me up everyday and not fight back? Fucking hell, I got expelled for fighting back against a bully who BROUGHT A KNIFE TO SCHOOL TO STAB ME because of that stupid argument. That happened almost 10 years ago and I'm still pissed over it.
Jordan DeHart holy shit. That's fucked up man. But yeah of course it matters who started it
this issue is honestly nuanced.
what the original purpose of it is supposed to be is to support an absolute authority. a self-proclaimed, openly honest dictator can say ''It doesn't matter what *either* of you peasants say to me. at all. it doesn't matter who you *say* started it. either of you. what matters is that I am about to make a *decision*. and you will do what I say.''
in the case of a dictator that can actually back themselves up with real intelligence, power, and self-confidence that doesn't back down against arguments, or ever doubt itself, who maintains enough self-consistency in it's logic that they can cow *you* into doubting yourself......rightly or wrongly, they can exercise, effectively, absolute rule.
there are cases where the Doctor Doom touch is actually preferable over the liberty and justice, let freedom ring, hurrah for Captain America revolutionary, progressive, liberal anthems. there are cases where you *want* an absolute power that everyone will be afraid to oppose.
if and ONLY if it can make sure people are ACTUALLY afraid to oppose it--- not EAGER to oppose it because they're pissed off at it enough to stop caring.
the big key missing element here is that slogans decay over time. slogans decay when their users forget all the logic or reasoning or purpose behind them and assume the slogans speak for themselves. at that point, they forget how to be smart enough to win the debates. and then the staring contests and power struggles ensue. and THEN you usually find out that the person who thinks they can play dictator as well as Doctor Doom....
has pissed off a lot of people into believing in themselves. and they're no longer afraid of the dictator. and the dictator DOES begin to doubt THEMSELVES.
it's been a helluva 28-year ride for me watching and learning this about how parenting and living at home under parents really works. on the one hand, I wished I'd moved out sooner, but on the other I now feel like I'm learning so much taking notes of the dysfunction around here that it's worth it for me to stay and keep observing and taking notes.
of course all of your points are valid....as preliminary observations. if you can manage to get your parents to back down, then kudos to you, they're not worthy of the Mantles of Doom. But fair warning before you try that:
if any of them ARE prepared to bring the Iron Fist of Doom against you, you will probably live just long enough to regret your little peasant rebellion. so I'd simply advise being very careful which buttons you press. Know exactly what is going to happen before you decide to press them. But if you're sure, you won't be afraid of that.
:)
23:00 “Even though Thor reacted like a police officer would”.
Watches this in 2020
Super oof because I totally see what that meant.
"Both sides are wrong and I hate them."
This line is one of linkaras best comedy lines ever and it's in one of his more serious videos.
My biggest issue with Civil War is that Speedball, who by this point was a well experienced character, should have been able to use his kinetic powers to weaken, or even negate, Nitro's explosion. But then because Mark Millar has no idea how Speedball uses his powers or how Nitro's powers work, he had them start Civil War them being in an explosion. Which then led to Speedball being an Edgelord.
This is the type of things i hate from comics......shocking things just for shock
He was on the outer edge of the explosion with no way to contain it before it had already consumed the school. That's why he and Nitro were the only survivors.
Night Trasher was as smart as he was usually portrayed either.
I don’t know if this is true but from what I’ve heard there was next to no communication between writers on this project for whatever reason.
I admittedly don't know a lot about Speedball because I started collecting comics that my cousin gave me as a kid, anyway, he showed up in Infinity War as a joke about ordering pizza while everyone teleports after being informed by the Evil Reed about a meeting being held. What exactly can he do?
I can't remember where I read it, but I swear a big part of the problem with Civil War was that none of the people working on the various books were actually talking to each other. So in one book, you'd have Tony Stark acting like a normal, rational human being, and then in another you'd have him being a fascist asshole. Same with the Registration Act itself - no one seemed to know exactly *what* it said, so the pro-reg books made it look reasonable, while the anti-reg books made it look like a superhero draft.
That's a lot of comic event that does that
***** Yeah, but I feel like this was a case of everyone at Marvel collectively shitting the bed.
So many problems with this comic could have been avoided if they decided beforehand on _what_ exactly the SHRA was supposed to be.
Registration of people who want to become superheroes?
Registration of people with superpowers, regardless of the use they give those powers?
Conscription of superpowered individuals?
@@SidheKnight exactly, honestly that's why My Hero Academia works and this doesn't because we understand what people in that universe mean by registration. It's only for people who want to be superheroes, that's it and nothing more. MHA treats registration akin to getting a gun or job training.
@@K1ng1995 mha doesn't exist
Oh, boy. The "not allowed to defend themselves" line reminds of school. If you got picked on, or someone picked a fight with you, you'd get in trouble for defending yourself. Let yourself get hurt just to be in the right later. Totally a great idea.
Unfortunately that's still a problem to this day. You still get people complaining online (there are several posts about this on Reddit) about people who get in trouble at school for defending themselves. This usually comes up in complaints regarding how the schools do next to nothing to prevent bullying and yet are so quick to deal out punishement when the bullied kid finally stands up for themselves.
@@CouchSpud91 You know what's even worse? How the teachers aren't allowed to intervene and stop the fight because then @$${)?£ parents sue the school claiming that the teacher is "bullying" their child!
Also, if you do fight back, the asshole who picked a fight with you will almost never get punished.
Actually, from what I've heard, even if you don't fight back, you still get in trouble.
My parents rule for fighting were simple: if you start the fight you'll be punished but if you only end the fight( even if you get suspended) you wont be in trouble with us
As an aside, I just do not believe that a man like Captain America, who fought in WWII, who knows full well the kinda crap the French went through and the things they did to fight against invasion, would ever respond like Ultimate Captain America did. With that whole "Surrender? Do you think this A stands for France" crap. Fail, writers.
It is a little like the line where someone calls Magneto "Hitler". You know, the jewish holocaust survivor? Some lines shouldn't be crossed.
Agreed but it is a funny line
Also, Captain America would almost *certainly* be aware of the actions of the French Resistance.
@@neond6740 Winter Soldier literally has a clap back at that line directly. Cap literally says that the French are some of the bravest and kindest people he's ever met and anyone saying something like that is not only factually wrong, but obviously hadn't fought with the Resistance the way he personally had.
"It's okay because there are super-villans there too" is the same justification as "it's okay to keep innocent people in GitMo Bay because we probably caught like one guilty guy."
GitMo
GitMo
In regards to Maria Hill's terrible characterization in Civil War: In one of the tie-in stories, she has to stop a suicide bomber in Stark Tower using several gadgets, including special boots (rocket boots or wall-climbing boots, I forget which), and she comments on how ugly the boots are.
Hello, facepalm, my old friend...
Saddest part of the Spider-Man unmasking? The Iron Spider suit was badass and it's introduction is marred forever by that story.
Thankfully the MCU seems to have fixed that
@@kylecampbell565 The MCU one doesn't look as cool. The red & gold color scheme of the comics is much better for that costume IMO.
I will forever see the Iron Spider suit as an affront to Peter's character and everything he was up to that point. It turned him into a side kick. It was the seed that gave birth to the characterization of the MCU Spider-Man.
@@Hillthugsta Now that you mention it, you're right. There was something very.. "off" with the MCU's version of Spidey, but I wasn't sure what it was. Now I know what it is.
I don't mind Spiderman eventually becoming an Avenger and a sort of apprentice to Iron Man, but in the MCU this happened almost immediately, when I always saw Spiderman as more of a loner or outsider (that's why it was so cool when he teamed up with other characters).
@@SidheKnight To go further beyond that, Peter didnt even create it. He has always created his own gear. It was in Ironmans color scheme further driving home the point he was a sidekick not to ment it was called the IRON Spider suit.
"They couldn't find a way to shrink him. Really. You have HANK FRIGGIN' PYM on your side, and you can't find a way to shrink him. That is a new level of dumb." One of my favorite Linkara quotes!
To be fair, they didn't have Hank Pym. They had a Skrull pretending to be Hank Pym.
@@legomaniac213 which I find it hard to believe. I can buy the skull not knowing how to make his tech, but like. Hank didn't have spare shrinking tech hanging around?
@@nekoluxuria7721 if "Hank" said he didn't know how, they'd believe him out of practicality.
Besides, Skrull...
@@EkoBahamut no I mean why "hank" couldn't shrink collosus despite the fact that everyone knows that hank is a specialist when it comes to these things.
they really should have suspected him when he said he can't do it when he's the pro at it out of you know curiosity because 2 of the members outside of hank are scientists themselves
"Cool Idea: Bad Execution. The tagline for this miniseries come to think of it."
You know when a video game and movie (Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 and Captain America: Civil War respectively) based on this miniseries were announced, I heard a lot of people saying "Why are people so excited about an adaptation of a comic that sucked?" I think this sums it up: Even if the writers for the source material had their heads up their asses, there were a lot of good ideas, and fans recognized that. And while I haven't played the game I know the movie showed that yes, you CAN take those original ideas and execute them properly.
Ultimate Alliance 2 is a lot better than the book, as it doesn't have all the tie in baggage of the comic just ultimate alliance 1 and tries to humanize both sides more (you also get to choose which side you join yourself which is neat and provides incentive for multiple playthoughs). It also has a better ending as both sides put aside the civil war in order to come together and take care of a larger threat, and then cap and Iron Man work together to amend the bill and make it less restrictive and to help train heroes rather than control them. However it still has the problem of villianizing Iron man and mr fantastic by including the super prison and thunderbolts, but its not nearly as bad and cap still pulls douchbaggery as well so it evens out. The movie is still the best version of this story though.
Earlier this year, I finally read the story of Civil War... in full. A friend of mine gave me the books and EVERY SINGLE TIE-IN BOOK! And he gave them to me in order of reading. It was a stack of 70+ books and it made for a solid weekend.
I learned four things from Civil War. First was the actual Civil War Book was the ONLY book that took Tony's side. Everyone else was in writer's revolt and was supporting Steve, with the exception of Frontlines which told us EVERYONE was an asshole. Honestly, the Civil War tries to get us in Tony's corner for the most part but every other books shows the negative consequences this is all having on the Marvel Universe.
Second, only four... count 'em, FOUR people had ANY common sense. Misty Knight, who was Pro-Reg because it was a way to actually HELP people, get criminals off the streets and see to it places could get heroic help in timely, proper manner. Cable, was Anti-Reg and pretty much stated outright, "I've seen where this leads. I am it!" and honestly THAT says a lot. Dr. Stephen Strange who took a true neutral stance and went off to the North Pole to meditate, fast, and pray for everyone... and finally, Wolverine was the ONLY one doing the right thing: make Nitro pay for his crimes.
For the third thing... Miriam Sharpe... good lord, I HATE that woman with a passion! She is the Achille's Heel to everything! Has no problem laying a guilt trip on Tony Stark to get this Registration Movement going... and then completely undermines herself in a hypocritical fashion by getting Wolverine to take revenge on Nitro for her little boy, even though what Logan was doing is basically everything that stands AGAINST the Registration Act she so demanded to have forced on the Heroes... and finally, after Cap is killed she lives it up with Tony, wining and dining with him at a party! Good lord, she is Hypocritical Victimhood INCARNATE!
And finally? GOOD LORD! Marvel let the attempt at a White Tiger series DIE for this drek!?
Damn, that's a lot of bullshit! (Sans the 4 smart characters)
And there's actually a FIFTH thing I forgot to mention...
That a lot of what Tony did is revenge for Namor screwing over his plan to control the world through the Illuminati; the Secret Hero Group comprised of Tony Stark, Hank Pym, Reed Richards, Dr. Stephen Strange, Prof. Charles Xavier, King Blackbolt, and Prince Namor... Tony TRIED to get T'Challa but Black Panther told him to piss off.
Tony decided only this group of people was good enough to replace the Avengers and prevent terrible things from happening before they occurred. Their first order of business? Kidnap Dr. Bruce Banner and send him out into deep space because the Hulk is too dangerous. They had a vote on if this was a course of action to take and while nearly unanimous... Namor was the lone dissenting vote.
Either way, because of Namor, the others realized they perhaps couldn't work as one and most broke away from Stark. Tony had a friggin' grudge up the wazoo and so much of this series, (particularly Frontline) shows that part of him going as far as he had was Stark's way to give Namor the middle finger, so much to the point of framing the Atlantians as terrorists as a way to make the Heroes realize they needed to unite under Registration to fight the Sea Menace! No, really. Namorita dying was perfect for Tony to declare as Namor's 'motive' for hating the surface world and took control of Norman Osbourn to attempt to assassinate Atlantian Diplomats to raise tensions... all because Tony couldn't get his way the first time around.
And it also had the effect of raising ALL of Stark Industries' stocks.
So yes... Captain America might have been rather "Ultimates" in this, but Iron Man was outright VILLAINOUS!
MaveriKat Wow!
Wow that's a lot of bullshit
@MaveriKat Wow, just wow. This sounds like something Norman Osborne would have done. I'm glad that I mostly stuck to deadpool comics as well as a few dc comics.
Fun fact the Russo brothers mentioned in the director’s commentary of Captain America Civil War they screened multiple cuts of the film to test audiences and they asked the audience if they felt Tony or Steve was right. They intentionally chose the cut where audiences were the most split on who was right
I don’t know much about the production of comics so I don’t know if this tactic could’ve been feasibly been done with the Civil War storyline here. But it would’ve certainly helped had it been possible
Those audience members were definitely the same kind of audience who loved the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 and thought Thor The Dark World was "epic". If you look at the movie without fanboy glasses on, it's easy to see the fallacy with that so-called ambiguous choice. Stark is objectively the one whose stance is the most flawed one. He brings an underage superhero, who has no experience fighting other superhumans, to a fight where he has no stake in, thus contradicting his previous motive that was fueled by the death of some kid in Sokovia.
@GxDLY 007 The Necrophobic according to what we know. But Stark doesn't. From what he knows, Bucky Barnes just a day ago tried to murder and him bunch of other people. That's why he's sent to catch him - he's dangerous according to everyone who doesn't know the whole truth.
@@antona.1327 Stark was on thier side once he knew, until his rage causes him to go after bucky again.
Tony was in the right with almost everything expect Wanda
@@antona.1327 which audience members?
@@antona.1327 What ever your thoughts. MCU Tony is definitely an improvement over comic Tony in Civil War it was borderline character assassination in that story same with Cap and why generalize an audience like that?
Why do some writers think Reed Richards is a Vulcan? Sure, he can be obsessive about his work and put it ahead of his family, but he understands emotions and can express them. He's fully capable of talking like a normal person in non-scientific situations.
Because apparently being a super genius scientist means you are either a straight up villain or an awkward anti-social mess who can't comprehend humour or "hoomun emoshuns".
@@densetsugojirin5518 Never forget that the former is what became of the Ultimate universe version of Reed Richards.
I agree! Reed can be a douche sometimes, but he's not that much of an unfeeling weirdo.
I dont know i feel vulcans can speak more normally than him in this situations
Maria, maybe you shouldn't threaten Captain America?
GODDAMIT, NOBODY ASKED YOU, PATRIECE!!!
best comment :')
Underrated comment
it is awesome but, um.......
Classic
I love you! :')
You say that both the Pro and Anti Registration sides looked like assholes, but things seem pretty stacked against the Pro Side.
On the Anti End we have:
-Cap being a dick
-Cap working with the Punisher
On the Pro Side we have:
-Maria Hill illegally trying to enforce a law before its been passed
-Space Guantanamo
-Cloning Thor
-Outsourcing villains
-Drafting people with powers who didn't want to work for SHIELD, even teens
At the end of the day both sides were douchébag, it's just the Pro-Registration were the Kings of Douchébag.
I'm guessing both of those things were so pretty damning to the Anti side, especially Cap's behavior that it even things out.
t least the movie captain america civil war did this concept but did it way better then actual comic itself so that's good news
Don’t forget the Anti Registration movement turning what was going to be a peaceful negotiation into a battle.
@@jackmclaughlin9602Maria pulled guns on Cap
Ultimate Cap: "Surrender? Surrender?! Do you think the letter on my head stands for France?!"
[cue shot of 616 Cap giving up with losing horns blaring]
I lol'd hard.
What’s even more hilarious is that Civil War was meant to be an ultimate universe story (forced into the regular marvel universe.) So had it BEEN an ultimate universe story, that would’ve been terribly ironic and, for THAT Captain America, hypocritically on-brand.
That line sounds like something Frank Miller would write
Same.
"Thor reacted like a police officer would". Man, this line aged so bad
Yup. That's a big biiiiiiiig oof right there.
2020: “I’m about to end this quote’s whole career.”
You think that might have been Millar's intention? Not even necessarily him being clever, but as an edgy jab?
Yeaaaaa……
@@kingofthegundam7974 Millar is heavy duty conservative. No way would he ever think about hating the police
Actually, Linkara, there's a plot point in the WOLVERINE BOOK that talks about Nitro using MGH (Mutant Growth Hormone) a drug that increases superhuman powers or grants them to non superhumans. That's why his blast radius was so huge...even though I'm pretty sure it's never mentioned.
And that's the problem. If you knew very little about the character and/or didn't read that specific tie-in you might be lost.
In fact afterwards it was simply dropped what was revealed and Wolverine and Namor were the only ones actually going after Nitro.
Which was provided to him by Damage Control, which is largely owned byyyyyyy *blare of out-of-tune trumpets* Tony Stark!
@@inotaishu1 and there anti heroes
"Superheroes are not police officers, *nor should they be!* "-"Disregard everything your parents might've ever said about "it not mattering who started it;" if that was true, *no one would be allowed to defend themselves or others.* "-"The Registration Act turns these very people who've risked life and limb to save people over and over... into criminals. *You are punishing people for trying to do the right thing.* "
Kinda makes me curious to know what Linkara thinks about the state of Hero Society in the MHA 'verse, tbh...
I'm thinking... Crappy.
Whenever people tell me that Civil War had no lasting consequences of that it was all retconed, I say, "Try telling that to Bill Foster!"
wait he's still dead
Yeah, as of yet, Goliath hasn't come back to life. And he might never, since he's not an A-list or even B-List hero
SacridFire yep that's true
He joins the ranks of uncle ben unam the unseen dove captain mar vell and jack monuroe as truley dead. Of course people said the same about jason todd and bucky. So they may all come back as villians.
Yeah, to this day that is reply is made, spider-man is still no longer married to mary jane because of the devil
I really like you using the Image of Cloud 9 being forced into the initiative.
Because her story during all of the initiative is that of an innocent girl who just wants to use her powers to fly being turned into a soldier, A merciless killer who uses a sniper rifle to shoot people. THEY TRAINED HER TO DO THAT.
She is also the end of the initiative story in the last page of the Age of Heroes where she asked to basically be an avanger just before being told that the registration act is being revoked. ending with her taking of her hero uniform and trowing it at caps feet and flying off.
That actually sounds like a good story. What's it called?
FiraDeviant please tell me the name of that story.
Apparently it starts at Avengers: The Initiative 1
I feel bad for her
erm... no?
What does constitute a superpower anyway? Black Panther is at peak human condition plus the heart-shaped herb. Would that constitute a superpower? Would that be any different from an athlete using performance enhancing drugs? Same thing for Captain America. Also, since these superhumans need to register and basically be conscripted, does that mean the United States and SHIELD would end up using child soldiers against their or their parents' consent? This series has plot holes large enough to drive entire helicarriers through.
Man the helicarrier is so fucking cool maybe one day we'll be that technologically advanced
and what about big guys like Fisk or Bull who despite getting that strong through natural means are stronger than people like Black Panther and Captain America? do they count as enhanced individuals or are they safe because they don't have any powers?
why aren't mutants subject to these laws? this seems like the perfect excuse for the government to enact the dreaded mutant registration act without much resistance.
what about people who are different species like Atlanteans, Kree, Asgardians, or Xandarians? are subject to these laws even if their natural biology means they don't actually have powers?
There is a tie-in story about a woman who's only power being able to fly on a small buble getting forcefully recruited as a sniper by War Machine. In the end, she's a hardened killer and rightfully furious at the heroes who pratically enslaved her.
@@billuraral1870 Wow. Just wow
This event should just be called "Everyone is an asshole"
There was literally a Fantastic Four comic made YEARS before Civil War where read Richards made this exact point. He goes to washington and shuts down a law that is basically the equivalent of the registration act by making this argument. So yes, a writer obliterated the entire central premise of Civil War years before it happened and then Marvel did the event anyway.
Spider-man is probably the most likable character in the book. Spider-man didn't act like a jerk. Questioned the regrestration side terrible acts and tries to help. Which is why he is hunted down and almost killed by super villians. Was the thunderbolts hunting down spider-man done to make the registration look bad. Having the only likable character on there side switching sides and being hunted down.
Invisible Woman was equally not stupid imo
@@Cdr2002 i have kinda noticed How sometimes Spider-Man is the most likeable character in bad stories sometimes
@@jadenbryant9283 and what do civil war and the ultimate universe have in common? Mark Millar
@@caiomesquita268 it seems mark Millar likes Spider-Man alot
He was still uncharacteristically idiotic by revealing his identity just because tony asked him. It was so stupid.
A prision where you can develop emotional trauma and sadness just by being there? that sounds awful good thing real prisions dont work like that and never caused symptoms like that right?.... oh wait
As if real American prisons weren’t bad enough, now try an American prison in the DIMENSION OF PURE PAIN™!
A follow-up story to civil regarding the Richards, the thing and human Torch stuck in the phantom zone,go to the supervillain prison there to try and get the Baxter building out of the hell dimension,with the help of the toymaker,who was unfairly arrested whilst going to get ice cream with his grandkids and Johny storms Skrull ex helps em escape. That story was tough to deal with
35:44 - Two things about Reed in this story that make all of this even worse.
1. In Fantastic Four 335-336, Reed testified before Congress about the futility of a Superhuman Registration Act.
2. In one of the tie-ins after Civil War, Dwayne McDuffie became the first writer to ask the logical question that Mark Millar ignored - how does Doctor Doom respond to the news that Reed Richards is building an other dimensional prison for holding people without trial and creating cyborg Norse god clone slaves?
The answer? Issue a video press release condemning the actions of SHIELD and the American government and assuring the rest of the world that Latveria stands ready to defend the rest of the world if needed.
Now THAT would be a great story!
I would expect nothing less from Lord Doom.
What's the issue where Doctor Doom does that? I need to read it because it sounds awesome.
Thanks Mark, you made Doctor-frigging-Doom look like a good guy by comparison. What is it with Reed being ether an idiot, malicious, or just downright neglectful? At least Ultimate Reed nutted up and became the villain known as The Maker.
+Webshooters1 really? I got to see this! What issues were they?
I don't remember exactly but it's collected in a series called "Ultimate Comics: Doomsday" which contains "Ultimate Enemy", "Ultimate Mystery", and "Ultimate Doom" and these series take place after Ultimatum.
THANK YOU LINKARA. The way they blamed Speedball and what happened afterwards (ugh, Penance), was cruel and stupid. The guys responsible for the change and the whole "blame Speedball" thing admitted they HATED the character Speedball and wanted to basically destroy him. It was just a bad thing mean-spirited jerk did to a character they didn't like in a blatantly disrespectful move they CAME UP WITH WHILE DRUNK.
@@smashmaster521 Not surprising to be honest
I like how in great lakes avengers squirrel girl (an in universe fan of speedball) makes it a joke with speedball being stupid, having him edge up the whimsical things about him (putting his adorable cat in pointy armor) and doreen slowly backs out of the room to steal a time machine to try to save him. And I like how she went to the future by accident and it turns out eventually speedball gets better.
This is "James Gunn directing the live-action Scooby Doo movie just so he can make Scrappy a villianous asshole" level of petty and stupid
@@billuraral1870 to be fair James Gunn's whole thing before he found his footing with the guardian's movies was mean spirited parody (likely a habit from his days in troma studios) and it was ment as an adult comedy before the studio reworked it into a kid's film. Though to be honest, I think the movie we got is better than the hypothetical "adult" movie we could have gotten.
@@billuraral1870 At least that was kind of funny; this just seems deeply unpleasant.
One thing I really loved about the movie vs the comic was that the movie actually went out of its way to depict the registration act for what it was: UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Never mind the fact that it was an elaborate scheme by a Sokovian terrorist whose plan was to break Tony Stark down and break the Avengers beyond repair, the film actually went out of its way to depict that the whole thing was reactionary and a smear campaign. Sure, you actually can see some points the pro-accords side makes, but even the pro-Accords side questions the validity of the whole ordeal, and in the end, despite anti side ending up in prison, the act still fails and the government sees it for what it is.
The big problem with the comic is that as Linkara says, it misses the entire point of what being a superhero is: SAVING THE WORLD. In taking the pro registration side act, it treats superheroes like terrorists and the kinds of people like Zod as depicted in Man of Steel. It takes the pro side simply because the heroes have powers. Its a shallow, lazy act of pigeonholing and the message ends up being that Superheroes should be militarized. Ok, but isn't that why THE MILITARY exists??? Yes, the military is a response to rising threats too, but the difference is that soldiers willingly work for the government, SUPERHEROES SAVE THE WORLD OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF THEIR HEART.
Lol I’m glad Linkara singled out the panels of Maria Hill during her “chat” with Cap. She’s straight up drawn like she’s gonna be the major antagonist for the story or something.
She looks like she’s bragging about how many kittens she poisoned that one time.
The best character in Civil War was Moon Knight. He was on neither side, told Captain America straight up that both him and Iron Man are fighting like two babies in a sandbox fighting over sand. And in Moon Knight's aftermath story he is wanted by Iron Man for no reason while his issues references Shakespeare's Hamlet.
Eamonn Deane
For me I always thought Jack Nicholson was born to play Moon Knight. Too bad he's way too old to be playing him now, unless Marvel decides to make a direct to DVD animated Moon Knight film.
I say it was Ben Grimm "Peace assholes I'm not supporting either of ya and going off to fight molemen in paris"
Its sad when the insane man makes the most sense.
I mean to be fair that insane man also has a literal omnipotent god living in his head so...
If memory serves, he also called Sally Floyd an idiot regarding her comments to Cap.
So let me get this straight in Marvel they take flawed stories with potencial and addapted them into movies and remove their flaws while DC takes good stories and turns them into bad movies?? Is DC trying to make people buy their animated movies and good comics by making crappy movies?
OMG! YOU HAVE FOUND OUT THEIR MASTER PLAN!
*****
He deserves it just look at that
/watch?v=CdKwtFNRRLM
That or they're trying to be a Bizarro Marvel.
Thats not the case, but mostly Snyder not handling the characters correctly, hopefully Johns can incorporate some positivity like he does with Rebirth. DC does not need help getting people to buy their animated movies, they've always been hitting out of the park in that regard.
Katherine Alvarez, lol Nostalgia Critic actually made a joke about that being a plan.
Also what about the Direct to Video DC animated movies?
I read comics in the 90s and I'm shocked that _Maximum Carnage_ where a group of super-villains just go on a mass killing spree never had repercussions considering the death toll reached the triple digits. I can legit see Congress straight up ordering the deaths of all super-criminals if that happened now. Hmm... this would make an interesting event comic.
Maybe it could even be a discussion on what criminals should die and should not die it would make a good out of continuity book atleast
@@jadenbryant9283 Something like this was mentioned in _The Last Avengers' Story_ with the US government initiation the Villain Massacre. Ironically, most superheroes finally quit in response to the US's cruelty.
Dark Age of Comics cared more about violence and sex than the implications of those things, so I buy it.
The surrender was always the thing that bothered me the most. Cap's side didn't need to fight Tony's side at all. They were fighting the REGISTRATION ACT, and they were doing that by NOT SIGNING. The only reason to fight Tony was to free the captives. Once they were out of the building, it was just a case of escaping.
Cap's supposed to be the genius strategist, he should have recognized this.
Except, from what I saw of Cap in the MCU and the cartoons was that he wasn't that much of a strategist at all. All of the plans he's had have been thought up of by other people. His only concern was and is executing those plans and doing so while still being the leader that he is. If he had been a strategist, he'd at least have to have the intellect of someone like The Doctor from Doctor Who or the Dalek Strategist from the Doctor Who spin-off about the Daleks that recently came out.
@@DoctorWhoKage I disagree! Cap's been the strategy man from his first film. During the montage of him fighting Hydra, he's the one at the maps, planning out his attacks. In the Avengers, he's the one organizing the police and giving the Avengers their assignments. Same thing in Age of Ultron... but by then the cracks in the team were forming. As the films went on, he was still clearly a leader, but other leaders had emerged: Stark, Banner, Strange, T'Challa.
@@STNeish speaking of that scene with the police, why'd they question him while the Chitauri were attacking New York?! They've *got* to have recognized that he's *Captain fucking America!* Why should they take orders from him? Because he's a fuckin' Captain! Fuck you, dumbass cops!
It honestly feel's like the writer wrote themselves into a corner with no idea how to really end things
As you said, the movie handled this story so much better. Even the fact of which side Iron Man and Cap are makes more sense.
On paper, Iron man is a wealthy business man built his own superweapon and has multiple times refused to share his tech with the government, why would he side with giving over authority to the government. In the movies it makes sense, at first Tony Stark seems like the ultimate escapest fantasy, he is rich enough and skilled enough that he can get away with anything he does. But in the space of the cinematic universe almost everything bad that happens to him he is in some way responsible for. After a while you would start seeing the value in accountability.
Cap meanwhile is a is an enlisted soldier who got his strength from a government program so you think that would make him proregistration but recently found out that a government orginisation that was tasked with protecting people was secretly corrupt to it's core. HIs reluctance give power another government orginisation, espicially one that is headed by a General Ross, the man who's previous task was hunting down one of Caps teammates, also makes a lot of sense.
In short, the movies showed that the idea had potential but that more planning needed to be done first.
Well said.
You've poked fun at yourself, Linkara, with quips like "I'm sure you're all bored with me giving a speech" in this or that review, but honestly... it's one of your finer points both as a writer AND a public speaker. That ending spiel about what's fundamentally wrong with this book and others like it is what puts you head and shoulders above the rest of the comic-reviewing community. You keep doing what you're doing, sir, especially with material like this.
Bobsheaux lol indeed
Praise the Bobsheaux!
Hello Bob
How do I keep on running into you
"Because what would a massive event be without killing off characters? Oh, I know what it'd be. Good!"
I'm guessing you mean needlessly killing off characters, rather than killing off in general, since Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is good, killed off Barry. I mean, he did come back, but at the time it was killing him off.
He wasn't kill as much as sacrificed himself, it's not like someone through a hammer through him during a skirmish
Studmanafier As Linkara said in his _Countdown_ videos, "If you're going to kill a character, then make sure it's their Crowning Moment of Awesome!"
Studmanafier and supergirl
And Supergirl?
The Tetnis Imperative had no deaths, and that was his favorite event, even if it wasn’t celebrated as being a massive event like Civil War or Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Here’s something that frustraits me about Civil War Tony didn't create the Thunderbolts, The Thunderbolts appeared after the Onslaught Saga as the heroes who would replace the assumed dead Avengers and Fantastic 4. They turned out to be Zemo and his Masters of Evil masquerading as heroes to win the trust of the world so Zemo could take over the world, everything was going according to Zemo's plan until the rest of the team began to have changes of heart as they enjoyed being heroes, Zemo outted the T-Bolts true identities as the masters of evil and the whole world including the returned Avengers and Fantastic 4 began a massive Hunt for the T-Bolts eventually Zemo and the T-Bolts fled to space where Zemo mind controlled the Avengers and the Fantastic 4 and the T-Bolts turned against Zemo and fled. Originally they planned to just cut their losses and run but the youngest member of the team (not one of the Masters) convinced them to actually become heroes and defeat Zemo and the mind controlled heroes, after this the T-Bolts commit themselves to reforming and becoming actual heroes despite how difficult it was since no one trusted them. After the end of the original T-Bolts Civil War happened and since then the T-Bolts have been stained by the Civil War story now their only ever seen as Marvel's Suicide Squad. The T-Bolts aren’t the suicide Squad the difference Between the them and the Suicide Squad is that the T-Bolts wanted to be Heroes they weren’t being forced to heroes and they also weren’t a pack of savage killers they were villains who genuinely wanted to reform, to be better and help people. The T-Bolts where a genuine example of redemption but the Civil war writers threw all that out and replaced all but one of the original team members with vicious killers who have no interest in redeeming themselves just to turn them into a Pro-registration Black Ops Team again they turned them into a Marvel version of the Suicide Squad, and whats sad is the T-Bolts have never been able to escape this now when anyone talks about the T-Bolts their just seen as Marvel’s suicide Squad not villains who against all odds turned their lives around and became not only heroes but better people.
Wow that’s really unfortunate.
Frankly, that does suck.
Spotted some of the interesting stuff done with Thunderbolts when I was looking up the characters of Fenris.
It was an interesting thought experiment to see if characters like Andreas could seek redemption but it was absolutely insane.
Millar being ProReg actually explains a lot of the problems with the book. If he saw the ProReg side as the inherently more sympathetic one, he would think they needed to do a lot of morally questionable things in order to make the conflict ambiguous. What he didn't seem to realize was that the majority of readers (and a lot of Marvel writers, including JMS, who wrote the Spiderman tie-ins) saw the ProRegs as the inherently LESS sympathetic side, so their constant dickery turned them from misguided heroes into outright villains. Maybe it has something to do with Millar's own personal beliefs running further right than most comic fan's, or maybe he thinks most fan's run further right than they do. I don't know.
Sound like he should of made sure everybody knew the outcome of the story
rhadamanthus10 isn't more government control a left thing not a right.
While the right prefers small government
yeah, ProReg faction, especially Stark himself, jumped off the deep end of fascism there. A lot of comics fans still can't let go of the resentment towards Iron Man because of that. Especially with the Civil War movie, in which he's not quite as bad but still edges into the fascist. Like reopening a wound that RDJ had steadily started to heal.
@@JoahTheThread5ive the right doesn't prefer small government, it prefers fewer rights being guaranteed by law, and no boundaries on inequality.
They want a world in which the "winners" have no limits on their heights, and the "losers" no support structure, because they're "where they deserve to be".
@@YMasterS That seems like a strawman.
was the whole goal of this series to make tony stark an even more unlikable douche than he already was? didn't this pretty much kill his character until the first iron man movie came out?
Sending hulk to space probably killed it before but yes it's around there
alucardyoici there was at least the reason of hulk being well hulk
Uh... No? Because Iron Man solo comics at the time were written by Daniel and Charlie Knauf, who redeemed Stark and made him a lot more sympathetic than the event comic ever made him be.
@@antona.1327 no. The only saving grace in the Knaufs run is the Mandarin. Tony is still depicted as a moron with barely a resemblance to his classic heroic version...because the arcs before director of shield ? Fucking atrocious.
I think the biggest flaw was that they were treating their friends worse than their enemies. A negative zone prison?? What happened to the Raft or the Vault? There have been super-prisons for years now... . Venom and Hobgoblin... yeah, they get a supermax prison,..but for someone like Daredevil and Luke Cage... it's not enough.
To hunt down Captain America and falcon... Shield gets Super armor designated 'Capekillers' (REALLY?!?!) but against Hydra and Rhino and Shocker... nah... that's not necessary.
Hey... you know who has the most experience fighting the heroes... the VILLAINS.!! Why don't we team up with Venom and Bullseye and any number of convicted murderers to go against Captain America!! Whenever you're across the battlefield with Capekillers and Venom and Green Goblin on your side...and Captain America and Spider-man on the OTHER side... You're the bad guy. Whatever motivations you may have had... you're strictly evil now.
It reminds me of when Batman spends all his time and money on finding precise ways to stop/kill Flash, Superman, and Wonder Woman... but Clayface and Man-bat?? yeah, they keep coming back...
Priorities here people.
The other big problem with the registration act... is that it was ALWAYS illegal to wear a mask and punch people in the streets. Spider-man and Daredevil are always being chased by cops... NOTHING about the Civil War was any different than the status quo... so the hard target hunt and destroy was REALLY over the top.
Remember in infinite crisis when Batman creates Brother Eye to play big brother on fellow heroes because he doesn’t trust people.
Why was Daredevil sent to the Negative Zone, anyway? He's not superhuman, he's just a guy who's insanely good at being a ninja
@@billuraral1870 Technically he does have super powers with that radar sense of his as that is NOT standard issue for blind people
The Vault had I believe been destroyed for like the 3rd time and they split up to places like the Raft and the Big House....the Raft had been destroyed the year prior during New Avengers 1 which was one thing that made them decide to put the new prision off earth
@@jfdrac still, that's hardly Negative Zone material.
"Even though he acted like a police officer would"
Huh. Marvel called out 2020.
Just watching this today and boy did I think the same
I have this firm belief that heroes shouldn't fight other heroes, only supervillains. By fighting each other, you're only going to give the enemy an upper hand.
With Cap being killed off, I'm willing to bet the heads of HYDRA were singing the praises of Stark the Narc and his cohorts. The same feelings can be directed toward the Civil War movie.
Nothing both sides did will matter, once Thanos comes
For THanos, a piece of paper of a questionable document is merely nothing..he just wants his gems and he is not going to let anything geti n his way.
lsebastian9086
That's what I'm sayin', the stupid Sakovia Accords plus the registration act are doing more harm than good.
Once Thanos arrives, the powers of the Infinity Gauntlet will swiftly destroy any form of "military might" the world has and the superheroes wouldn't be able to stop him.
What with the accords making superhumans into a task force. Only allowed to do their thing with the U.N.'s approval.
Yep, come Infinity Wars (the movie;) earth is doomed and Stark will be the one to die first.
Considering he's the one that tried to force Cap to "come to his senses." It would appear some of the comic Tony's "douchebagery" from the comic rubbed off on RDJ's character
sadlobster1
Honestly...Stark was mroe tragic in this version but there is ONE person i have a huge distrust, more than TOny...an that person is the secretary of defense Ross.
Stark showed redeeming qualities but his flaw is that he thinks in flying before learning how to walk, and is reckless. Ross however is not someone who i trust entirely, is the same man that chased Banner like a hound and i really dont trust properly in how he handled things.
I am even sure that he took advantage of Stark's guilt and everything to have the sokovia accords made.
Tough i dont think TOny will be the first one to die as much as VIsion
Heroes SHOULD figth heroes, as long as they have a real reason, like DareDevill and Punisher
sadlobster1 love your perfect prediction. Divided they fell.
Given how stupid comics "Civil War" is, "World War Hulk" was SO satisfying in showing Hulk combining back down and just smashing EVERYONE.
+TouhouFather Maybe the bastardised MCU Movie plot, but that's not the plot of the Source Material at all. If anything, the Marvel heroes are pretty redundant to the Infinity Gauntlet story.
@@pious83 Then it's a good thing it was changed.
I've said it once, i'll say it again, Mark Millar's entire carear can be summed up as "good ideas executed poorly"
Oh and you're not crazy linkara, i remember that interview with millar, the most stand out thing i recall is how he wrote tony as THE GOOD GUY and how he was right all along, also recall the bullshit exscuse of how listing the registraion act's contents would be too long to print or some crap, but that may or may not have been in a seperate interview
Because Mark Millar is a nihilist.
And another thing, how come the three smartest men in the Marvel universe are on the pro-registration side??? They aren’t even trying to make this debate seem fair! So in the writers’ eyes, not only is everybody on the anti-registration side wrong, but they’re idiots for thinking so! The least they could’ve done was balance out the geniuses! Put Tony and Reed on the pro-registration side and Hank Pym and Stephen Strange on the anti-registration side!
To be fair technically it was only 2 as they DID reveal that Hank here....was actually a Skrull who wanted to stir things up
@@jfdrac
Which didn’t make sense because before the final battle, hulkling drugs him up and leaves him unconscious, which should’ve revealed his true form.
@@thecollector4332 I want to say the new process they used during SI meant they did not revert even unconcious since for a long plan invasion that would be very problematic especially as they planned to replace heroes who get knocked a fair amount....Heck Mockingbird Skrull did not revert even upon death
@@jfdrac
True true. I forgot
@@thecollector4332 I think everyone tries to do that It had a lot of illogicals as fun as it might have been
Question about the Negative Zone Prison: If it causes emotional trauma and sadness to the prisoners and all who are there...how do the guards manage to not feel as shitty as the prisoners?
well the same way our prison guards feel slightly less depressed than prisoners: they get to leave the place at the end of their shift
***** So there'd be no guards during night-time? Wouldn't that be a prime chance for the inmates to attempt an escape?
Kaltagstar96 no there is the night shift team and there is the day shift team.
In Frontline, it's explained that the guard are robots.
Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall Thanks. :) Awesome review by the way Linkara. It's a real honor to have you reply to a comment I made.
when tragedies ocurr in real Life people blame from vídeo games to Marilyn Manson, i dont think its TOO far off that they would blame heroes
also, i rly liked the vídeo even tho i kinda like the comics. i think is just always intérpreted as both sides having its own standpoints but everything going wrong(kind of like in polítics, you picking a side doesnt mean you cant disagree in an aspect of it). i def agree that is a pretty frustrating read if you stop and think about it, but as a Quick popcorn read is fine by me
Eamonn Deane yeah, it was a glimpse of an interesting idea done poorly
why does this remind of a pitchshifter song
Felipe Syderas nowadays we blame everything on islam
Yes - but in real life, the idiots who are making those claims, have to face the overwhelming majority of critics who point out to them just why their arguments are bullshit. Regardless of whether or not they listen is pretty much irrelevant, as what I care more about, is that people aren't suckered into believing it.
The problem that I have most with the entire Civil War concept, was that it just seemed like everyone was so willing to turn their backs on the Heroes who saved the world twice. There was no one in the stories pointing out why it was a stupid thing to do; it makes the world at large come off like the idiots who are blaming Video Games, Rock n Roll, and Marilyn Manson.
The whole "Nitro not being powerful enough to cause that explosion usually" is even funnier when you realize that they resolve that plot hole in a wolverine tie in comic. And then all the other civil war stuff just ignores that this was all caused by humans who made a power enhancing drug to start all this so they could make money off the clean up
"Don't worry everyone, I'll stop him from exploding and killing you all by making him explode and kill you all!"
No, the New Warriors weren't out of their league! They've saved earth at least ten times, saved other planets a few times, and had a beloved series in the 90s that was better written than everything the Avengers were doing at the time... and aside from the Thunderbolts and mutants, were the biggest league where heroes were concerned during the Counter-Earth/Heroes Reborn debacle!
And there are MULTIPLE super-villain super-max prisons in THE USA ALONE. The Cube, the Raft, the Vault, the Cage, Seagate, plus Alcatraz and extensions to real-world, active prisons, like Ryker's Island. And that's just an incomplete list in the US! Other countries have their own super-prisons!
Gah, Civil War sucks. And Civil War II sucks even worse! Somehow!
After x-men got older
New warrior was the official teen team in marvel just like teen titans
But that’s not the point the reason The New Warriors we’re out of their league was because they had lost a lot of their heavy hitters. No Nova, Firestar, Justice, List goes on.
@@K1ng1995, even then, they were doing quite well. It wasn't until Nitro blew up that they were "over their head".
Wolverine tracked Nitro down (because literally no one else was, which he thought was odd) and found out that Nitro had been juicing right before the event, which is how he was able to take out the school AND the New Warriors.
Even if Avengers were in equivalent spaces, only a few of them could have made it out of there alive, but I'm talking like Hulk, Thor, not Hawkeye or Captain America. Even Tony's latest armor would have had a hard time if he wasn't at epicenter. Namarita was no slouch and quite tough in her own right, but she was also the one punching Nitro.
Charistoph true
@@Charistoph yep, she's easily in Namor's league and he can stand against the Hulk even if he usually doesn't win. So that's a pretty heavy hitter. Nitro was just more powerful than usual and also an utter monster because he didn't care who or what he murdered.
He's right, nothing ever suggested Nitro would ever be capable of exploding a whole city block. He had the power of a hand grenade: deadly, but not out of the New Warriors' league. They were outmatched because Nitro was doped on a mutant steroid, but nobody could have known that, so the Avengers themselves would have been blindsided.
(It's explained in the Wolverine tie-in, where Logan is the only person in the world who remember WHO actually caused the explosions and goes after Nitro.)
Logan, only man with a brain in this series
I like that for the most part, Linkara is very calm about this, he isn't screaming and ranting about how bad this is, he's being pretty methodical about this, and while he jokes, he makes very valid points.
Assuming that Magneto was alive somewhere out there during the war he must had have really good laugh watching this whole mess... because Iron Man (who is more or less but a HUMAN!) and his pro - registration side just proved how far humanity will go to subdue anyone different than "normal" people...
Asheer that would be great story to follow up on
Tony Stark basically straight up proved Magneto being right with all this bullshit.
Blame the writer and marvel editors for this terrible story.
The mutants playing Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Comic really is a missed opportunity.
@@JaelinBezel They did. It was just that Decimation had just happened, so Emma told Tony to screw off and if he didn't all the remaining mutants on the planet would make him wish he had. They still had two reality warpers and the Extinction Team at that point...so Tony really didn't want to push that envelope.
My thoughts:
1. What is it with this kind of laziness? Why waste the opportunity for creative covers? Why a big empty space?
2. Ah yes, destroying the status quo for publicity. His unmasking really was a good idea and they screwed it up royal.
3. As if real prisons weren't traumatizing enough already. Also, different contexts, writers.
4. It is a pretty weird situation to get the act on the table. Seriously, do people in the Marvel Universe blame the victims of suicide bombings because they were standing too close to the bomber?
5. GG lady.
6. *facepalm*
7. If Nitro's bombing was enough to get the Superhuman Registration Act on the floor, why the hell isn't violating a dead person's DNA to create a clone without their permission enough to get something similar on the floor? It honestly seems like a bigger social issue to me.
8. I can understand wanting to make up for what's happened. I can understand the guilt weighing on his shoulders. But way to go full fascist with the prison and the clone, dude.
9. Again, I can understand wanting to retain your freedom. But at least give peace a chance if your enemy is trying to end things diplomatically. It would've been more interesting than just FIGHTFIGHTFIGHTFIGHTFIGHT over and over.
10. Did no one look over the art when working on this thing? Just to make sure things looked right? Guess not.
11. This is seriously up there with twin clones of Hitler and making Nightcrawler the Pope when it comes to stupid plans.
12. Don't you love it when a story feels like it has big chunks missing because of tie-ins?
13. How can a super genius also be a super idiot without an ounce of humanity? That love letter was just painful to read. And WOW with that McCarthy bit.
14. There really was no progression of any argument in this book, just fight scenes or complaining. But after everything pointed out in #9, why the hell would you just give up?!
15. This is something I really hate about these kinds of stories exploring philosophical topics: being told which side you're supposed to support. Especially when the side we're apparently supposed to support is a bunch of self-righteous fascist assholes who violate human rights. When writing these stories, you should present both sides as having pros and cons, then let the audience decide who they want to support. If you don't, you're just creating propaganda designed to attack philosophies that do not conform to your ideals.
Mister Bubbles I just realized 90% of these comments are blocks of text
If all the people they captured were being put into the negative zone to await trial, wouldn't that create a legal nightmare, since it induces such mental harm to them? Wouldn't it make them unfit to stand trial? A good enough lawyer would claim it as inhumane and unfair, and have lawsuit after lawsuit against Tony and SHIELD at the ready.
I'm pro registration but only so much in that I think that's almost similar to what the Justice League did in JLU. An organized, streamlined approach to tackling natural disasters and super villain attacks. In the words of Superman "We can't be cowboys anymore." Another system for dealing with heroes that I like is the one found in Tiger and Bunny.
She Hulk's ass shot was all I wanted to be complained about. So glad you did since it's SO OUT OF PLACE!
I actually liked Civil War. It wasn't true best but I thought it was an interesting concept. For me the worst part was the personal part of the aftermath. Now everyone's friends again and no one ever says "hey remember when Reed and Tony had us all arrested and thrown into the Negative Zone without trial? Good times."
Pretty sure most heroes had other reason to kill each other even before that though, I mean they sent hulk into space and depowered his cousin
And yet people WANTED Captain America 3 to be exactly like this P.O.S. of a comic series
I'm just thankful the Russo brothers, gave the story their own take
Well to be fair, there are a few things I wish they put into the movie from the comics. While I understand not using the secret identity thing, they could have at least not given the movie an actual villain. Honestly, Zemo nearly ruins the whole thing.
Cole MacGrath Yeah but it needlessly confuses it in a way that it still makes more sense for his scenes be taken out.
But that's the entire point, Sean: Zemo isn't that big of a 'real' villain. Does he ignite some of the events through manipulation? Yes, but it's still the heroes butting heads and getting into battle because they don't take the time to think it through properly. They get so emotionally charged, that they think fighting is inevitable. I think his presence was fine, honestly. It wasn't overly intrusive and it feed into the movie well.
***** It really didn't feed into the movie at all. If it was that Zemo really had nothing to do with the conflict and was causing chaos while the heroes were distracted, I'd see your point. But the movie makes it clear that there would be no conflict if Zemo wasn't manipulating things from the start by framing Bucky. I'm not saying that it absolutely ruined the movie, but it came way too close and the comic knew at the bare minimum not to have a villain.
CIVIL WAR, aka CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS, the mini-series.
My biggest problem with Civil War is that everyone was so busy going after the heroes they forgot about the supervillains. That and I think this is where they started going downhill...
“What’s so civil about war anyways?”- Axl Rose
In 2014, they actually brought back the New Warriors with Speedball as a returning team member (Kaine of the Clone Saga, operating as the Scarlet Spider at the time, also joined right after his fantastic solo series sadly got cancelled). While that run only lasted 12 issues before being cut way too short, this whole storyline seemed to take a legit toll on the guy, and while he was fine on the outside, the story showed that he clearly saw himself as responsible for all those lives lost and was still to this day hurting over it, illustrated by having Hummingbird, an empath, see that he was still internalizing his persona Penance.
This is all to say: Good stories can still come out of bad ones, it just sometimes takes like eight years.
Was that New Warriors Volume 5 that also had Sam Alexander joining too? I bought all the issues
Didn't the 616 Cap have a story about how fearless the French Resistance was a few months after the whole "Do you think the A stands for France" thing happened?
Cause mark millar doesn’t understand captain America 616
"Here's She-Hulk's ass for no reason."
You ever wonder if sometimes comic artists get so set in their ways that they don't even realize they're doing it anymore?
I know it wasn't touched on here because it happened in her own series, but Civil War really, REALLY did some major damage to Carol Danvers for me and I couldn't be bothered to pick up a comic featuring her for years afterward. Certainly didn't help that she showed up in New X-Men after the Purifiers attacked and murdered numerous students with her main concern being recruiting the X-Men to the pro-registration side. Emma verbally smacking her down was a welcome sight to see.
Emma Frost became the best character for a while because of Civil war.
I’m glad the mutants weren’t involved in the registration act. Just imagine what would happen to characters like Dust, an Afghan refugee, if the government made her enlist.
Civil War as an analogy for 9/11 is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Oh, I'm not saying it's a lie or a"fan theory", I just mean that if that was the writers intention, it was done so painfully bad.
9/11, while it shook the country to its core, ultimately united the country together against a common enemy (whether that was a good or bad thing is a more deep question but we'll ignore that)
Civil War on the other hand is entirely based on splitting apart people. Friends vs friends, daughters vs fathers, that's the entire point of the story.
That it's meant to be an analogy of 9/11 honestly makes me laugh
Something I find interesting idea is from of all things the Adam West Bat Man movie. When Catwoman disguised as reporter asks Batman casually to take off his mask for a picture and he mentions the secret identity concept she suggested they are like masked vigilantes in the westerns and Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara says no they are fully deputized agents of the law but also don't know who they really are as out of respect. Robin even saying not be put off by their costumes because underneath they are ordinary Americans aka people who just want to do the right thing. A cheesey 70s show still gets things right. An idea of them working with the law but also being allowed to use their unusual methods to stop crimes normal cops can't & normals accepting the help because to them it doesn't matter who they are, they're helping. Earlier in the same movie a guy and his wife having lunch sees the Bat copter & says "it gives a fella a good feeling knowing they're out there doing their job." Because that's what a heros do make people feel safe to have lunch without worrying about the Riddler or whoever. A too simplistic of idea from a different era maybe. But some times I think when exploring deep issues they tend to loose sight & over complicate things.
The movie does take Civil War and make it better and more plausible.
indeed in fact that's why i like movie better because frankly the movie does it far better then the actual story itself
Hell, even the _Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2_ videogame manages to give _Civil War_ a more satisfying conclusion by having both sides realise just how stupid the whole thing is!
@@Maximus4587 yeah that's true and you're right about that but if memory serves me well and it does wasn't the main villain of that entire game nanobots that go rogue and form a hive mind for some strange reason i don't know i found that ending weird at least to me.
Uh... No, it doesn't. It just makes it needlessly complicated while losing all the best aspects of it. The one thing the comic did right was create a natural conflict between two longstanding brothers in arms (something the movie couldn't do; simply because, unlike in the comics, Captain America and Iron Man have zero interpersonal relationships beforehand and their "friendship" is about as developed as was developed the friendship between Harvey Dent and Bruce Wayne in TDK), and make plausible outcome where both would go against each other. The movie boils it down to some villain forcing them into conflict. Another thing is how Stark is obviously the one who deserves all the blame in the movie. All the Avengers get blamed for what is his fault, Ultron. In the comics it was everyones fault what happened in Stanford. Both Cap and Shell-Head allowed a group of reckless superheroes start a superhero version of the TV show Cops and go around hunting villains around town. Also worth mentioning the fact that Stark contradicts himself heavily in the movie. His initial motive to be pro-Accords is rooted in the notion of that kid dying in Sokovia. So to create an environment where such thing wouldn't happen, he manipulates another teenager into traveling with him to another country to fight a fight he has no personal stake in. Great job, Mr. Stark. And please, MCU fans, don't give me "oh, but he knew nothing will happen to Peter". First, well, that would further prove why Stark is the one on the wrong side of the argument, since him assuming nothing bad can happen if I make questionable decisions is why he created Ultron. Especially something bad did happen - James Rhodes got crippled. And second, the reason why Stark even fights Captain America is because he wants to catch Barnes, who to him is a dangerous criminal who just a day ago tried to kill him and bunch of other people. A bit of a reckless assumption to send a teenager, even if a superhero, to help him catch a guy he thinks is a killer.
@@TevyaSmolka This is really late, but no. The nanobots weren't the main villain of the entire game. They don't show up until like...the last leg of the game. And they were created by Reed I believe(Because of course). Thankfully, with a common foe, Iron Man and Cap toss aside the war and bring both sides together. There's even an alternate ending where if you side with Cap, the Registration Act is lightened up and doesn't force heroes into compliance. A MUCH better ending than what the comics gave.
There's only one character who stayed true to themselves during Civil War, and that's the Punisher.
Think about that.
Is it safe to say the movie beats the book by a country mile?
some stupid fans would say no, but i say yes
+LSP 330 as do I, and I'm someone that likes the book
+Mike White thats fine, but there are fans that dont like the movie, just by the argument that "the original is always better" (sorry if i wrote this wrong, my english is not very good)
It's because the movie has the slightest tonal change: NO ONE IS RIGHT. Not REALLY, anyways. Both sides have justification for their actions to be doing what they are doing. No one is just said to be a bad guy, then suddenly is the one who's right.
i think so
The main reason I hate the original Civil War comic is the Spidey unmasking scene. Yes, there are several more issues with the book itself, but the Spidey unmasking scene just infuriates me. It was a completely out of character thing for Parker to do. He should have just told Stark to fuck off with his whole "revealing identity" bullshit and joined Cap's side. Because of this immensely stupid move, One More Day had to happen. Thank god the Civil War movie was "Civil War" in name only.
Btw peter and mj got back together
In case you didn't know,
So fuck one more day
Amen. If any character has a reason to want his identity to be secret its Spider-Man. Not to mention that before civil war happened daredevil, one Spider-Man's closest friends in the superhero community, had his identity leaked to the public and it basically ruined his life. So Spider-Man basically watched what happened to daredevil and went "yeah...that doesnt seem so bad!" It makes no sense.
@@overlord6993 Considering how huge of a rogue gallery of villains Peter has, what made him think it was a good idea to make his identity public, just after this event the KingPin had aunt May shoot which leads to one more day. If your going to change a character, make sure it’s a smart change rather then making him an idiot.
And another thing, it turned out that there actually was a true big bad to this mess; given that it occurred within the Wolverine tie-in, it would not be sacrilege to point out that Walter Declun, CEO of Damage Control, did it. And I thought it was a good plot; after all, superhuman conflict causes damage, and it would cost a fortune to have a company repair the damages. However, the fact that this is all tied to something that assassinates every A-Lister highlighted really goes to show that that particular idea should have been placed to the forefront to balance everything out, like Zemo did for the movie. At the very least, Declun could have been made into a credible vile piece of work. But yeah, that's why I prefer the Wolverine tie-in to the actual crossover, regardless of Wolverine Publicity.
Also, I prefer the Cadmus Arc overall.
One point to add to your critique of Mr. Fantastic in this is his character continuity. You see, in late '89/'90, there was this little thing called Acts of Vengeance. The main story isn't really important to this, but while it was happening, the Fantastic Four went to DC to testify about a Superhuman Registration Act, and Reed Richards managed to convince the government what a bad idea it would be, and that there would be no practical way to make it work.
Coming back to watch this years later.... Do you think Miriam Sharpe could have been a Skrull and this was actually a plan to weaken Earth's defenses before the invasion?
Wow I did not know the negative zone had that effect. I thought it was just a pocket dimension where the prisoners couldn't escape even if they got out of their cells. I didn't know people would be slowly driven to depression and insanity.
Fun Fact: in Acts of Vengeance (1989-90) the Fantastic Four issues dealt with the FF appearing before congress, speaking out against the reintroduction and expansion of the MRA to cover all Superhumans. Reed eloquently explains how people like Spider-Man and Daredevil selflessly risk their lives to help others, and wear masks to protect their families. He notes that while the list would not be public record, its existence would make it subject to being stolen by those who would use it to hurt people.
I would not be surprised if Goliath's grave had been marked with a giant burning cross
Same. Frankly, having Fenris visit the site to take photos would’ve also been par for the course.
My issue with Civil War's registration act is that it flies to close to another word that fits most superheroes: Vigilantes. Anyone who takes the law in their own hands, regardless of morals or of reasons, is a vigilante. If they're going so far as to seek registration, the US goverment next step would be to enlist them in some level of armed forces or hold them inprison for vigilantism. Civil war does that somewhat with a superhero team in every state, but it should be formalized a lot further, including training and enlistment into one of the divisions of armed forces with oversight.
In short, i feel in a story like this you either go all the way or you dont go at all. this book went only PARTLY into what the politics of a world of super-powered beings would be like.
24:01
They just did that because none of the readers were taking Tony's side. And I LOVE how they went about practically absolving Stark of ANY guilt in this. At this point, the only thing I remotely like about Iron Man is Robert Downey Jr.
Honestly I think the only reason Iron Man is as popular as he is at this point is because of RDJ.
Eamonn Deane
Don't tease... EXPLAIN.
Eamonn Deane
I wasn't trying to bite your head off, man. I thought something went down that I wasn't aware of.
yeah, Stan Lee created a man who felt guilty about the war profiteering in the Vietnam War, hid away his superhero persona to protect his friends from supervillains and has commitment issues because he relied on his chestplate (he needs to recharge it or his heart fails) and didn't want his girlfriend of the time to be that devastated when he dies, as back then the Iron Man suit is literally a walking coffin.
You can totally see why readers liked him.
trisha Hernz
And this relates to the way Iron Man was portrayed in Civil War... HOW?
And about the X-Men being Neutral, Cyclops said it best: "It occurs to me, seeing you standing here, where were you for us? For the Mutants? Except now when you need something?" Granted, that might be from AvX (another crappy crossover event and the fault clearly befalls the Avengers and specifically Wolverine but no...it's the "asshole" Cyclops who is at fault. Wolverine can do no wrong) but still...
I think line was from avengers vs x-men
Because Captain America never convinced Magnus to surrender, and then basically got him acquitted on charges of terrorism. And there have never been mutants on non-X Teams.
I hate what was done to one of my formerly favorite characters.
Not true, Beast was an Avenger for a long time.
***** i hate that too because the x-men are one of my all time favorite teams and they are being treated like second class citizens both in the comics and in the real world which sucks in my opinion because the x-men are the ones who are fighting for equality
2wingo
My point exactly. Sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate to print very well.
About Miriam Sharpe, things would change for her after Civil War. Sure she would be against superheroes but it changed after the invasion against Serpent and the Worthy and it made her realize that people need heroes. Not only that but mankind need to do things for themselves without superheroes. She even forgave Speedball after he saved Stanford during the Fear Itself storyline.
Kingdom Come did this storyline a lot better.
Do Marvel heroes even fight villains anymore? Or do they just fight each other?
Ms. Marvel fights crime :)
Then civil war 2 came around and she fought iron man
Zezlemetkun...we don't talk about Civil War 2: Avenging Boogaloo around here...
I'm thinking 80 percent of the time they're fighting each other and 20 percent fighting the ACTUAL Supervillains!
Then I’m glad I started reading DC first