I use zenithal partly to see where highlights should go, but mostly just to show me where not to bother painting, at least too much. Using zenithal like this though makes for a bit too pastel-y schemes, which I'm not a huge fan of; I need loud colours blasting my eyeballs. That ink did make the cloth pretty nice.
I didn't know I was not neurotypical until a couple years ago. So for the longest time when people told me that highlights are easy I thought I was just stupid. It wasn't until I got an airbrush and started using it to do priming & especially zenithial priming that I could finally understand highlights & even start application. So yeah for Jay to say I'm not getting the most out of it isn't actually ringing true for me. I don't need it to be there AFTER the fact seen through the filters/glazing etc I need it there are the start and during application to keep me on track. But hey each their own! Plus click bait. :P
@@matan8074 sure my dude. The concept of highlights in general is to recreate where 'light' or 'natural points of interest' would form right? That's a simple enough concept is not overly complicated until you get to the application aspect of it. Now I can (even as a child) dry brush the shit out of something to get a "edge highlight" but as you might well know that won't create a natural looking piece of art or recreate a natural bit of weathering it's just going to end up almost like I smudged greasy cheeto finger's all over my model. I am what you call a visual kinaesthetic learner I need to SEE and actively DO thing's to learn it. If someone is mentoring/teaching me it's not enough to tell (me hear) them explain something i need to see, touch & feel the process to absorb & recreate the process later. Given that miniature painting is USUALLY done by yourself & your teaching yourself I needed an airbrush to teach myself the basic idea of where LIGHT FALLS A MODEL! I know it seems silly by I visualize that in my mind. Just like i can't see numbers or do maths in my head easily either. I'm wired s little different & have to work around my limitations but I still get tabletop or even the odd tabletop+ mini out now but before workout the RIGHT TOOLS I could barely do a decent 3 colour mini & be happy with it.
using colors like pale sand or ice blue instead of white gives the paint more saturation on the highlights. Helps with simple scheme if they are mostly in either warm or cold tones. White is bright but its quite bland.
@@DanielVisOneCade Completely understand and relate with you mate. Exact same issue with me for the most part about needing to see something before I can fully grasp it though I've gotten alot better as I've gotten older about being able to visualize something that is being described to me rather than shown. Funny thing is I've been fairly proficient at drawing all my life lol and that's all from my head yet I can't always learn or see something without being shown it directly and actively doing the thing lol. Cheers
I was a little annoyed by the Click-Bait title, but the content was excellent. I will definitely be trying your 50/50 side-light zenithal, transparent paints, and inks method real soon.
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Nice tips! Here are a few ones I've found myself regarding transparent paint + zenithal (which is my main form of painting, since I'm aiming for a table-top quality): - If you don't have access to white ink, which will create a gradient from black to white (giving you grays) you can do a first zenithal in grey, and another one in white. - If you edge-highlight (or even drybrush in white!) before applying the transparent paint, you'll have some cool effects!
@@Baronello Slapchop is starting with a uniform black undercoat and layering on top opaques, this one starts with a grey-to-light zenithal highlight undercoat layering transparents. So aside from that... the same.
The TH-cam algorithm has ruined the naming conventions for any tutorials, and I hate it. Regardless if the information is helpful or not, I don't want to watch the video just because every single one always sounds like "if you arent doing what I am, you're an idiot" or "this is the only way to paint" and that kind of garbage doesn't need to exist in the hobby in my opinion.
Zenithals aren't necessarily meant to show at the end. They help direct highlights and shadows which are hard to visualize on this scale. But putting contrast through an airbrush on a zenithal gets a very nice basecoat for smooth surfaces.
Putting Contrast through an airbrush just turns it into an ink-like coat though, right? The whole pooling behaviour with contrast (and Speed Paint etc.) only happens when it has enough liquid applied to be able to flow from its surface tension.
They are a useful aid for your own painting for sure, but I think the point of the video is to showcase a method you can use to offload most of the shading onto the initial prime instead of going back over it. It's definitely not a style you want to ape if you want super saturated colours or intense shadows, but it's super useful for getting a unified lighting effect like sunset or moonlight where the lighting heavily washes out the hues of the subject. Use a light blue/navy blue or a yellow orange/dark purple primer pair instead white/black and do this technique and you'll see what I'm talking about.
There is a big difference in covering paint with a spray and an airbrush. Airbrush is thinner and cleaner, and you have more control over creating light and shadow. A can of spray may leave a mark on the figure, and the coverage itself is poor in the case of the black model.
I've actually been using transparent paints with a dry brushed white under layer rather than a normal zenithal for models in my upcoming D&D game. They are meant to be eerie and unsettling, and the dry brush gives an almost sketchbook appearance. This contrasts the player models really nicely, since I do a build up of acrylics and the look is very different, and the players are meant to feel like they almost don't belong in the world they are in.
A problem in the industry IMO is lack of quality labeling. Quality art supplies actually mention pigments and opacity, whereas hobby products typically don't. It's a real shame because you have to guess, and it's really frustrating for new painters to not understand why their red isn't acting like the red their friend has or why their zenithal doesn't show through.
I can recommend everyone start using art supplys, better quality for your money. And the labeling is much better. From transparency to pigmentname/pigmentnumber. Yes they are missing some fancy pruducts like contrast paints. But with inks thinned with acrylic medium you should archive nearly the same result. Or just start cheating and using oil paints
as the presenter describes at the end, there are plenty of ways to improve on this process. All he is doing is showing a very quick and simple way to exploit a zenithal highlight.
For me, Zenithal is just to help me identify details to plan my painting and, if I'm honest, because it looks cool. I enjoy how a zenithal primed mini looks. Yes, I'm going to cover it all up, I'm also not taking photo references for lighting - anything I gleam from the zenithal is passive and sub-conscious. Black paint is hard to see detail and takes more effort to work up colours. Same with white, except working down. Grey is ideal, best primer colour NA, but has the issue where hard to reach places must be reached, just like white. Zenithal is my perfect compromise. I don't think "prime zenithal" is a hobby commandment and everyone should. But if you have an airbrush it doesn't really add much time to the priming process.
"Black paint is hard to see detail and takes more effort to work up colours. Same with white, except working down. Grey is ideal, best primer colour " It's hard to see detail with ANY single color... BECAUSE it lacks contrast. It's how our brains work. Hence why the zenithal (or even a pseudo-zenithal with just a drybrush over the entire model) is useful even if you cover it all up... it avoids the problem where you've realized you painted some small detail the wrong color because you just didn't see it until afterwards, it lets you plan your paint job. As for best primer color: Personally I've always done black primes/basecoats... even way back when with 90s-era GW paints :D. Zenithal for me is an easy natural progression. Stuff I get that is pre-primed with gray drives me nuts... I either have to re-prime/basecoat it or immediately slap down zones of dark color to make any headway, I just don't grok it whereas layering color on black comes naturally to me.
After watching squidmar's vid I am thinking about going the zenithal way, if I should indeed start mini painting. I need a way to make presentable minis for wargaming without spending the money, resources and time to build 5.000 units just to practise technique and then throw them away.
A couple things I like to do is wash and dry brush over my zenithal before I use transparent paints. Also if your doing reds and yellows I suggest a black brown instead of pure black. Yellow tints green over black.
What do you wash with? I was thinking of trying this. Slapchop is a little too dirty, but Zenithal is a little too clean. I was thinking of maybe hitting the more white areas with a wash and then drybrushing white again. But not sure what wash to use.
Colour choice is vital with this technique, for it to really pop you need poppy colours. I don't with Orks for example with green ink, they look ultra vivid with deep shadows. I also do it with Blood Angels using contrast paint, and it's perfect for quickly base coating them, you can just go over with the decorative colours if you want and ignore the armour it looks so good. They way he's done this it looks a bit anemic and unsaturated due to the colour choice.
I'm having a bit of trouble with contrast paints and coffee staining. I'm painting an ulthwe autarch /black and bone, and tried to use use black templar over a choas black and wraithbone zenithal prime. Any tips on how to best apply the paint without coffee staining?
contrast paint dries really fast, that is why I like Army Painter Speed Paint a little more, you have to be quick, paint everything you want that color with thick paint and then pull off the excess, if you are to slow the paint will dry at the edges of the brushstrokes and make those coffee stains
Coffee stains are common with transparent paints and large flat(ish) surfaces. I find that light dry brushing over those areas after the paint dries with a similar color or highlight helps get rid of it.
I’ve never thought to use Zenithal like this, I’ve always just used it as a quick step to let me know where highlights will look natural or a fast mapping for where to set blend transitions. I’ve found myself more and more for painting fast to just use a quick and dirty grisalle underpainting to set highlights, sketch volumes and add details and then run transparent paints overtop using a light retarder to allow for some quick and interesting blends. Great video overall and the minis line looks super interesting!
some of my own findings with using zenithal/pseudo-zenithals & trying to get the highlighting to show through: 1. 1st off, let's be clear, zentihal-style basecoats ABSOLUTLY have value even if you do cover them up. The human brain/visual system is just not good at accurately identifying tiny details on something monochrome... zenithal treatment makes the mini not monochrome very early in the process 2. The problem with inks is inks are glossy AF... so prepare to slap on matte medium/varnish to finish things off. 3. You can roll your own transparent paint versions by mixing in combinations of glaze & gel medium. Be aware glaze medium, like inks, will add a glossy sheen to the dried paint job, although glaze+gel does NOT have this problem, giving a nice matte finish. Gel medium is interesting... it doesn't really change the opacity so much as it changes the viscosity & how the paint pools & settles on the model... which is an important lesson, & part of the magic that happens with GW contrast & AP speedpaints. It's not just that those paints are transparent, it's also that it settles in such a way that the underlying highlights are emphasized. Let me also be clear here though... Mixing in gel medium does NOT magically turn things into contrast paint. It does produce a paint which will allow a highlight to show thru but it also creates a distinct 'mottled' texture. That works great for some models/styles, not so great for others
Dunno if this counts as zenithal, but I spray-painted a bunch of Necrons vapor-wavey with a blue primer, then light blue from the left and pink from the right. Even has some faux color shift to it and is super quick.
I thought my follower count had gone up a little on insta this morning lol, thanks for the mention guys :) it was fun to paint, and my first time using an airbrush and water effects so it was a really fun way to experiment, and turns out I can knock out a half decent Danny Devito freehand, so that's got be usefull for tons of applications...right? Inks and glazes are my fav way to paint, my base coats are generally the same thing only I tend to use the brush to get as close to the colour as possible (within arms reach) to get the values then slap an ink over the top for that high saturation and smoothness. The new minis look awesome, they have a sort of Malifaux vibe, maybe it's because the proportions are normal scale, anywayz they gots me brain cooking up ideas for paint schemes :)
Yeah, I've watched a few videos where the presenter proceeded to completely cover the zenithal prime with opaque paint. I like the use of a slightly more "high key" zenithal and transparent paints and inks. Kind of like the method of using monochrome underpainting and glazes in oil painting.
I think the problem is many think Zenithal is a miracle solution to replace highlights and shadows and plan an entire project around it. It works best IMO by just painting normally with all the usual highlights and shadows and a bit more attention to properly thinning the base coats. Its success is reliant on using the minimum basecoat needed to get the desired color, but if you overdue it and cake on the base the effect will be degraded. When done properly it creates lighting in the basecoat itself between the highlights and shadows, for example by making a model's shoulders appear slightly brighter than the legs, despite using the exact same paints. It creates a subtle gradient that accentuates the highlights and shadows and makes them appear more natural. The end result is the model as a whole looks more dynamic in the end. I also find that it makes the painting process itself a bit easier, since it provides contrast on all the little bits that can be hard to tell apart otherwise. For me, its been a lifesaver on heads and faces, especially when they have a bunch of tubes and cybernetics sticking out.
This is one of the issues I have with a lot of OSL paint jobs too, they too often just blast the "light" with the airbrush, but that's not how light works, the light will still create highlights and shadows, only different from normal highlights and shadows. Yes, sometimes the whole person will be tinted in the OSL light, if the light is birght, but even then the person and the clothing has their own natural color to them, which will act differently when absorbing different light.
it's killing me that your airbrush is speckling so much, destroying the paintjob later. adjust your paint, pressure, or get a better airbrush that atomises the paint properly. speckling typically means your paint is too thick, the pressure is too high, your distance is to far, or a combination. if nothing works, it means you need a better airbrush or your airbrush needs parts replaced, the nozzle and/or the needle
Thank you! - I watch so many TH-camrs bleet on about zenithal highlights who go on to use a base layer over the top and completely lose the effect. Let's hope they watch this video too.
Transparent paints over zenithal is a kind of autopainting that, imo, is not really worth it. On the surface it sounds like an amazing cheat but in reality the quality of the paintjob is set at the start and the only real control the painter has is whether they reduce how good it looks by messing up. If you specifically like how a zenithal + glazed mini looks it is worth it. If you like the challenge of having to plan things out and not being able to make mistakes, it is worth it. If you just want to try something new, it is worth it. There are lots of reasons why someone might do this that are completely valid. That said, this is a good topic for a video and maybe by the end my mind will be changed.
Honestly though it doesn't just sound like an amazing cheat. You are right that it is sort of autopainting. I just started painting and I'm getting pretty decent results doing it. The few times I've touched acrylics, I can immediately tell doing it that way would be much harder. Honestly people say you can't make mistakes with the transparent paints, but you really can. As long as you have a big, clean brush next to you as an "eraser", as soon as you hit the wrong area, just wipe it off. But yes, if you make a mistake, and don't immediately catch it, that is definitely a problem. I would say that it's definitely worth it for tabletop standard results. The question is, is it worth it as a method to get better as a painter?
@@douglasmurdoch7247 There are some basic brush control skills that you would get through any kind of mindful practice, but no, I wouldn't think that people who want to paint in a different style than this would benefit from it. However, no-one is under any obligation to improve their painting. If you want to paint in a different style, great. If you like this style, great. The most important thing is really whether the painter is enjoying themselves and are happy with their work, or at least, the direction of their work.
Ah most TT paintertubers just use it as a guide this is the first time I've seen it used as an actual layer great tip! Although personally I just use white primer to get vibernt colors and to see spots I missed.
Since I got AP Speedpaints, it's basically become my main painting method. Aiming for tabletop++ quality, I can paint batch of minis in a few hours. Last project : 6 Serberys Raiders (6 riders + 6 Serbys) with bunch of details. Got'em finished in approx. 2h per dogs and less than 1h per rider = 12 minis in less than 20h ^^ Next step : going from spraycan priming + zenithal to airbrush priming + zenithal :D
I'm currently having fun doing none black / white zenithals. Painting up some tau using purple base with a ocean blue zenithal as primary colour, with pink base orange zenithal for helmets and such, giving a nice vaporwave look. Using opaque colours though, but its another nice way to use the same technique.
Thank you, as a novice hobbyist I've been agonising over whether to include this technique. Now that I know that the paints I use will likely obscure the highlights I can just focus on grasping the basics.
Paint is not actually opaque. Literally every paint has some amount of translucency, it’s the nature of having pigments suspended in a medium. You don’t need to use fully transparent paints to make good use of a zenithal.
Really liked the part with the Inks. I've never thought about them being something to use when using Contrast paints. Would love some more videos with examples of when/how to use the Liquitex Inks, using regular brush (as opposed to using them with an airbrush).
Maybe the new paint announcement with be a UV activated Zenithal Black that turns white under direct UV. Then you could set some dramatic lighting highlight angles. Not sure how you'd fix it though...
At 1:34, the primer looks super flakey and speckled. Doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the darker primer. I hate white primer for this and always brush it on to avoid this. It always affects my paints
I liked the video. I also saw a well used Vallejo Goblin Green which is a color that I never managed to get an even coverage. I have such a hard time with it
If your artist is looking for ideas to continue their Vine series I would be down to see a vine golem. Strands of vines wrapped and/or embedded into etched stone to form the golems. Two large pots for pauldrons with tendrils of thorned vines leading into two giant stoned fists. A large chest piece with a stone stand protruding down for the vines to wrap around leading to a base with two stumpy (yes haha plant joke) legs.
I've used this style of zenithal prior but was not a fan, particularly when dealing with skin tonnes. This zenithal style (to me) feels like moon-light late at night. I do like your emphasis on the type of paint: opaque vs transparency, as it's very important irrespective of the style of zenithal one is trying to achieve. Have you tried using colour with your zenithal?
Never bothered not even to see where the highlights would go. Maybe its just experience, a new comer painting over grey primer might be as well be blind, but I learned over black primer, and that stuff actually reflects light.
Subscribed. I love dry brushing, zenithal, and transparent paints. Both contrasts as well as speed paint. But I have yet to dabble in inks. I'm subscribed to artis opus just got the dry brushing stuff. If you or others delve deeper into the details (pun intended) on transparent paints. I'll be subscribing to you all
While this video is quite correct in terms of using zenithal for speedpainting, the statement at the start that acrylic paints is incorrect. Your undertones will always impact your final result. All acrylic paint has a hint of transparency, it is the nature of the medium (pun intended). Even if you don't use highly transparent paints, it will take a lot of layers to completely destroy the impact of any underlying zenithal. It will just take a lot less than it would if you were using highly transparent paints. There is value in using zenithal even if you are using standard mini paints or even heavy body acrylics. It's simply that the level of impact will be different.
I cannot recommend enough if you want to learn more about underpainting and working with easily transparent paints (with spending all the money on speed paints or contrast paints) to try using either water colour (in tubes) or gouache paints. You get a lot of extra play time since you can always reactive the layers with a wet brush and it makes learning wetblending super easy. You can also do fun washes like with oil paints but no need for mineral spirits or dealing with the fumes, since you just wet a sponge or brush and wipe it off where you want to remove it. They are also normally very cheap and all you need to set layers for good is a quick layer of varnish; I like satin for all building layers and mat for the final product but again experiment! After all the hobby is supposed to be fun and exploring different mediums and techniques is where mini painting also starts building art appreciation!
A little late to this video, but here's my request for some minis: bones. I know gw has a the skulls pack, but I don't want to just have skulls lying around. I need some big leg/arm bones, spines and chunky pelvises (humans and other). Pretty much just for basing purposes. Unless something like this already exists that you can point me to, thanks!
What light bulbs/type of color do you use? I keep flip flopping between cool white and the warm tone. I can never find a happy medium while learning how to paint. Love your vids btw. Thanks.
seeing the white underneath shows how you used far too little contrast paint. Especially the vines. you wiped it away... why? if you wanted to see the white just do the zenithal and leave it monochromatic.
God, those models look so cool I immediately went and subbed to the patreon. Considering how much of your guys content I watch, probably long overdue for that anyway.
I've been championing the power of contrast over a zenithal spray for some months now. I can understand why people would be scared off by leaving their models too dark, but its good to se the strategy catching on.
The idea for new minis, Draconic warriors, is not super original but definitely a lot that can be done with it, and kinda curious of your crews interpretation of this concept
I the idea of producing civilian models has ever crossed the minds of the higher ups at GW I could think of a couple of reasons why they might have decided against it. It’s probably mostly an ethical issue… depicting civilians fleeing in terror would probably hit too close to home to some people to be looked upon favorably. I’m not an uptight person, but I also do a lot of historical gaming and that community gets a lot of flak from people that believe it’s outright disrespectful to play historial war games since were literally making games out of the pain and suffering others lived through. Also, historical painting and modeling competitions are pretty strict on the way you feature civilians in dioramas and such. I could be way off base, but I see the potential for people to do some pretty distasteful things with official GW models of civilians fleeing in terror, and they probably wouldn’t want that kind of pr.
stop telling half true Garbage. there are certain hues of color that greatly benefit from a zenithal undercoat, even when they are opaque. try getting a rich yellow over a black primer, ill wait. but if you have a zenithal undercoat, the OPAQUE yellow suddenly does magic.
GLAZE MEDIUM to make your paints transparent without watering them down does the trick.
I use zenithal partly to see where highlights should go, but mostly just to show me where not to bother painting, at least too much. Using zenithal like this though makes for a bit too pastel-y schemes, which I'm not a huge fan of; I need loud colours blasting my eyeballs. That ink did make the cloth pretty nice.
I didn't know I was not neurotypical until a couple years ago. So for the longest time when people told me that highlights are easy I thought I was just stupid.
It wasn't until I got an airbrush and started using it to do priming & especially zenithial priming that I could finally understand highlights & even start application.
So yeah for Jay to say I'm not getting the most out of it isn't actually ringing true for me. I don't need it to be there AFTER the fact seen through the filters/glazing etc I need it there are the start and during application to keep me on track.
But hey each their own! Plus click bait. :P
@@DanielVisOneCade can I ask what the difficulty you had with edge highlighting was.
@@matan8074 sure my dude.
The concept of highlights in general is to recreate where 'light' or 'natural points of interest' would form right?
That's a simple enough concept is not overly complicated until you get to the application aspect of it.
Now I can (even as a child) dry brush the shit out of something to get a "edge highlight" but as you might well know that won't create a natural looking piece of art or recreate a natural bit of weathering it's just going to end up almost like I smudged greasy cheeto finger's all over my model.
I am what you call a visual kinaesthetic learner I need to SEE and actively DO thing's to learn it. If someone is mentoring/teaching me it's not enough to tell (me hear) them explain something i need to see, touch & feel the process to absorb & recreate the process later.
Given that miniature painting is USUALLY done by yourself & your teaching yourself I needed an airbrush to teach myself the basic idea of where LIGHT FALLS A MODEL! I know it seems silly by I visualize that in my mind. Just like i can't see numbers or do maths in my head easily either. I'm wired s little different & have to work around my limitations but I still get tabletop or even the odd tabletop+ mini out now but before workout the RIGHT TOOLS I could barely do a decent 3 colour mini & be happy with it.
using colors like pale sand or ice blue instead of white gives the paint more saturation on the highlights. Helps with simple scheme if they are mostly in either warm or cold tones.
White is bright but its quite bland.
@@DanielVisOneCade Completely understand and relate with you mate. Exact same issue with me for the most part about needing to see something before I can fully grasp it though I've gotten alot better as I've gotten older about being able to visualize something that is being described to me rather than shown. Funny thing is I've been fairly proficient at drawing all my life lol and that's all from my head yet I can't always learn or see something without being shown it directly and actively doing the thing lol. Cheers
I was a little annoyed by the Click-Bait title, but the content was excellent. I will definitely be trying your 50/50 side-light zenithal, transparent paints, and inks method real soon.
Nice tips! Here are a few ones I've found myself regarding transparent paint + zenithal (which is my main form of painting, since I'm aiming for a table-top quality):
- If you don't have access to white ink, which will create a gradient from black to white (giving you grays) you can do a first zenithal in grey, and another one in white.
- If you edge-highlight (or even drybrush in white!) before applying the transparent paint, you'll have some cool effects!
You just invented slapchop painting.
Oooh... I like that drybrush idea.
@@Baronello Slapchop is starting with a uniform black undercoat and layering on top opaques, this one starts with a grey-to-light zenithal highlight undercoat layering transparents. So aside from that... the same.
The TH-cam algorithm has ruined the naming conventions for any tutorials, and I hate it. Regardless if the information is helpful or not, I don't want to watch the video just because every single one always sounds like "if you arent doing what I am, you're an idiot" or "this is the only way to paint" and that kind of garbage doesn't need to exist in the hobby in my opinion.
Zenithals aren't necessarily meant to show at the end. They help direct highlights and shadows which are hard to visualize on this scale.
But putting contrast through an airbrush on a zenithal gets a very nice basecoat for smooth surfaces.
Putting Contrast through an airbrush just turns it into an ink-like coat though, right? The whole pooling behaviour with contrast (and Speed Paint etc.) only happens when it has enough liquid applied to be able to flow from its surface tension.
@@darkowl9 not necessarily. Airbrush dries the contrast fast so it covers like a month base coat. But it really comes down to the contrast color too.
This is the sole purpose of why I use them.
They are a useful aid for your own painting for sure, but I think the point of the video is to showcase a method you can use to offload most of the shading onto the initial prime instead of going back over it. It's definitely not a style you want to ape if you want super saturated colours or intense shadows, but it's super useful for getting a unified lighting effect like sunset or moonlight where the lighting heavily washes out the hues of the subject. Use a light blue/navy blue or a yellow orange/dark purple primer pair instead white/black and do this technique and you'll see what I'm talking about.
There is a big difference in covering paint with a spray and an airbrush. Airbrush is thinner and cleaner, and you have more control over creating light and shadow. A can of spray may leave a mark on the figure, and the coverage itself is poor in the case of the black model.
You can always glaze your acrylics
I've actually been using transparent paints with a dry brushed white under layer rather than a normal zenithal for models in my upcoming D&D game. They are meant to be eerie and unsettling, and the dry brush gives an almost sketchbook appearance. This contrasts the player models really nicely, since I do a build up of acrylics and the look is very different, and the players are meant to feel like they almost don't belong in the world they are in.
A problem in the industry IMO is lack of quality labeling. Quality art supplies actually mention pigments and opacity, whereas hobby products typically don't. It's a real shame because you have to guess, and it's really frustrating for new painters to not understand why their red isn't acting like the red their friend has or why their zenithal doesn't show through.
I can recommend everyone start using art supplys, better quality for your money. And the labeling is much better.
From transparency to pigmentname/pigmentnumber.
Yes they are missing some fancy pruducts like contrast paints.
But with inks thinned with acrylic medium you should archive nearly the same result.
Or just start cheating and using oil paints
As someone who just learned about Zenithal highlights and now feels like I need to do this for all my minis, THIS was very helpful, thank you! Cheers!
It is true, your process is good for quick battle-ready, but I find that it lacks contrast to look super good
And maybe matt the whole thing a bit, cause the cape is just too glossy
Time investment vs reward is something we should always keep in mind.
as the presenter describes at the end, there are plenty of ways to improve on this process. All he is doing is showing a very quick and simple way to exploit a zenithal highlight.
aye , honelsty those minis might be ready for some, but can barely see the green on vine. Those were good base layers at best.
For me, Zenithal is just to help me identify details to plan my painting and, if I'm honest, because it looks cool. I enjoy how a zenithal primed mini looks. Yes, I'm going to cover it all up, I'm also not taking photo references for lighting - anything I gleam from the zenithal is passive and sub-conscious. Black paint is hard to see detail and takes more effort to work up colours. Same with white, except working down. Grey is ideal, best primer colour NA, but has the issue where hard to reach places must be reached, just like white. Zenithal is my perfect compromise.
I don't think "prime zenithal" is a hobby commandment and everyone should. But if you have an airbrush it doesn't really add much time to the priming process.
"Black paint is hard to see detail and takes more effort to work up colours. Same with white, except working down. Grey is ideal, best primer colour "
It's hard to see detail with ANY single color... BECAUSE it lacks contrast. It's how our brains work. Hence why the zenithal (or even a pseudo-zenithal with just a drybrush over the entire model) is useful even if you cover it all up... it avoids the problem where you've realized you painted some small detail the wrong color because you just didn't see it until afterwards, it lets you plan your paint job.
As for best primer color: Personally I've always done black primes/basecoats... even way back when with 90s-era GW paints :D. Zenithal for me is an easy natural progression. Stuff I get that is pre-primed with gray drives me nuts... I either have to re-prime/basecoat it or immediately slap down zones of dark color to make any headway, I just don't grok it whereas layering color on black comes naturally to me.
Acrylic is transparent? Also your white zenithal is speckling.
After watching squidmar's vid I am thinking about going the zenithal way, if I should indeed start mini painting. I need a way to make presentable minis for wargaming without spending the money, resources and time to build 5.000 units just to practise technique and then throw them away.
A couple things I like to do is wash and dry brush over my zenithal before I use transparent paints. Also if your doing reds and yellows I suggest a black brown instead of pure black. Yellow tints green over black.
What do you wash with? I was thinking of trying this. Slapchop is a little too dirty, but Zenithal is a little too clean. I was thinking of maybe hitting the more white areas with a wash and then drybrushing white again. But not sure what wash to use.
It’s really great to use complimentary colors as an undercoat to your contrast paints
Colour choice is vital with this technique, for it to really pop you need poppy colours. I don't with Orks for example with green ink, they look ultra vivid with deep shadows. I also do it with Blood Angels using contrast paint, and it's perfect for quickly base coating them, you can just go over with the decorative colours if you want and ignore the armour it looks so good. They way he's done this it looks a bit anemic and unsaturated due to the colour choice.
I'm having a bit of trouble with contrast paints and coffee staining. I'm painting an ulthwe autarch /black and bone, and tried to use use black templar over a choas black and wraithbone zenithal prime. Any tips on how to best apply the paint without coffee staining?
contrast paint dries really fast, that is why I like Army Painter Speed Paint a little more, you have to be quick, paint everything you want that color with thick paint and then pull off the excess, if you are to slow the paint will dry at the edges of the brushstrokes and make those coffee stains
@@EonsOfBattle I have an idea for minis: robots with cobra/snake headdresses and staffs
Coffee stains are common with transparent paints and large flat(ish) surfaces. I find that light dry brushing over those areas after the paint dries with a similar color or highlight helps get rid of it.
-Zenithal is useless because paints are opaque...
using transparent paints to paint XD
Very mute result and would need to be varnished to kill that sheen.
Next step would be stronger contrast between light and dark.
I’ve never thought to use Zenithal like this, I’ve always just used it as a quick step to let me know where highlights will look natural or a fast mapping for where to set blend transitions. I’ve found myself more and more for painting fast to just use a quick and dirty grisalle underpainting to set highlights, sketch volumes and add details and then run transparent paints overtop using a light retarder to allow for some quick and interesting blends. Great video overall and the minis line looks super interesting!
They turned out so pretty! I gotta try these techniques on something very flashy soon.
YESSSSSS.... Jay you Glorious Bastard... I have said the same thing... most painters seem to paint the whole damn thing white... Perfect 50/50 coat!!!
some of my own findings with using zenithal/pseudo-zenithals & trying to get the highlighting to show through:
1. 1st off, let's be clear, zentihal-style basecoats ABSOLUTLY have value even if you do cover them up. The human brain/visual system is just not good at accurately identifying tiny details on something monochrome... zenithal treatment makes the mini not monochrome very early in the process
2. The problem with inks is inks are glossy AF... so prepare to slap on matte medium/varnish to finish things off.
3. You can roll your own transparent paint versions by mixing in combinations of glaze & gel medium. Be aware glaze medium, like inks, will add a glossy sheen to the dried paint job, although glaze+gel does NOT have this problem, giving a nice matte finish.
Gel medium is interesting... it doesn't really change the opacity so much as it changes the viscosity & how the paint pools & settles on the model... which is an important lesson, & part of the magic that happens with GW contrast & AP speedpaints. It's not just that those paints are transparent, it's also that it settles in such a way that the underlying highlights are emphasized.
Let me also be clear here though... Mixing in gel medium does NOT magically turn things into contrast paint. It does produce a paint which will allow a highlight to show thru but it also creates a distinct 'mottled' texture. That works great for some models/styles, not so great for others
Built some confidence to finish some models with inks and speed paints. Thanks Jay.
Dunno if this counts as zenithal, but I spray-painted a bunch of Necrons vapor-wavey with a blue primer, then light blue from the left and pink from the right. Even has some faux color shift to it and is super quick.
I thought my follower count had gone up a little on insta this morning lol, thanks for the mention guys :) it was fun to paint, and my first time using an airbrush and water effects so it was a really fun way to experiment, and turns out I can knock out a half decent Danny Devito freehand, so that's got be usefull for tons of applications...right? Inks and glazes are my fav way to paint, my base coats are generally the same thing only I tend to use the brush to get as close to the colour as possible (within arms reach) to get the values then slap an ink over the top for that high saturation and smoothness. The new minis look awesome, they have a sort of Malifaux vibe, maybe it's because the proportions are normal scale, anywayz they gots me brain cooking up ideas for paint schemes :)
Yeah, I've watched a few videos where the presenter proceeded to completely cover the zenithal prime with opaque paint. I like the use of a slightly more "high key" zenithal and transparent paints and inks. Kind of like the method of using monochrome underpainting and glazes in oil painting.
I think the problem is many think Zenithal is a miracle solution to replace highlights and shadows and plan an entire project around it. It works best IMO by just painting normally with all the usual highlights and shadows and a bit more attention to properly thinning the base coats. Its success is reliant on using the minimum basecoat needed to get the desired color, but if you overdue it and cake on the base the effect will be degraded. When done properly it creates lighting in the basecoat itself between the highlights and shadows, for example by making a model's shoulders appear slightly brighter than the legs, despite using the exact same paints. It creates a subtle gradient that accentuates the highlights and shadows and makes them appear more natural. The end result is the model as a whole looks more dynamic in the end.
I also find that it makes the painting process itself a bit easier, since it provides contrast on all the little bits that can be hard to tell apart otherwise. For me, its been a lifesaver on heads and faces, especially when they have a bunch of tubes and cybernetics sticking out.
I use zenithal to help with seeing some details, moreso than using the inherent shadows.
A very good idea about using the ink to intensify the saturation. Great tip!
This is one of the issues I have with a lot of OSL paint jobs too, they too often just blast the "light" with the airbrush, but that's not how light works, the light will still create highlights and shadows, only different from normal highlights and shadows. Yes, sometimes the whole person will be tinted in the OSL light, if the light is birght, but even then the person and the clothing has their own natural color to them, which will act differently when absorbing different light.
it's killing me that your airbrush is speckling so much, destroying the paintjob later. adjust your paint, pressure, or get a better airbrush that atomises the paint properly. speckling typically means your paint is too thick, the pressure is too high, your distance is to far, or a combination. if nothing works, it means you need a better airbrush or your airbrush needs parts replaced, the nozzle and/or the needle
I’ve found if you dilute your acrylics a touch more than normal you can get the same effect! Albeit more work than just using contrast paints.
Thank you! - I watch so many TH-camrs bleet on about zenithal highlights who go on to use a base layer over the top and completely lose the effect. Let's hope they watch this video too.
Transparent paints over zenithal is a kind of autopainting that, imo, is not really worth it. On the surface it sounds like an amazing cheat but in reality the quality of the paintjob is set at the start and the only real control the painter has is whether they reduce how good it looks by messing up.
If you specifically like how a zenithal + glazed mini looks it is worth it. If you like the challenge of having to plan things out and not being able to make mistakes, it is worth it. If you just want to try something new, it is worth it. There are lots of reasons why someone might do this that are completely valid.
That said, this is a good topic for a video and maybe by the end my mind will be changed.
Honestly though it doesn't just sound like an amazing cheat. You are right that it is sort of autopainting. I just started painting and I'm getting pretty decent results doing it. The few times I've touched acrylics, I can immediately tell doing it that way would be much harder. Honestly people say you can't make mistakes with the transparent paints, but you really can. As long as you have a big, clean brush next to you as an "eraser", as soon as you hit the wrong area, just wipe it off. But yes, if you make a mistake, and don't immediately catch it, that is definitely a problem.
I would say that it's definitely worth it for tabletop standard results. The question is, is it worth it as a method to get better as a painter?
@@douglasmurdoch7247 There are some basic brush control skills that you would get through any kind of mindful practice, but no, I wouldn't think that people who want to paint in a different style than this would benefit from it. However, no-one is under any obligation to improve their painting. If you want to paint in a different style, great. If you like this style, great. The most important thing is really whether the painter is enjoying themselves and are happy with their work, or at least, the direction of their work.
Ah most TT paintertubers just use it as a guide this is the first time I've seen it used as an actual layer great tip! Although personally I just use white primer to get vibernt colors and to see spots I missed.
Can you do a zenithal with a very light drybrush using a very fine makeupbrush? I can't spray where i live and i don't have an airbrush.
Since I got AP Speedpaints, it's basically become my main painting method. Aiming for tabletop++ quality, I can paint batch of minis in a few hours. Last project : 6 Serberys Raiders (6 riders + 6 Serbys) with bunch of details. Got'em finished in approx. 2h per dogs and less than 1h per rider = 12 minis in less than 20h ^^
Next step : going from spraycan priming + zenithal to airbrush priming + zenithal :D
Zenithal + contrast/speedpaint is king :)
Do you know Carnevale the game? I think you'd really enjoy the setting and miniature range
Not gonna buy transparent paint.
Thank you for not dragging this tutorial into a 20 minute video. Excellent editing, good information delivered quickly. Nice job.
My favorite video of yours so far. Clear, concise, and practical. Great work.
I'm currently having fun doing none black / white zenithals. Painting up some tau using purple base with a ocean blue zenithal as primary colour, with pink base orange zenithal for helmets and such, giving a nice vaporwave look. Using opaque colours though, but its another nice way to use the same technique.
Purple is a great base tone
My friend zenithals and then puts opaque paints on. But doesn't preshade or prehighlight when using contrast
Boggles my brain hard
The point is - you need to use airbrush for the base layer after you do zenithal... airbrush wont cover it fully, transparent paints are meh.
I use zenithal highlights with the army painter speed paints or GW contrast paints and you can really tell where the light and dark areas are
Thank you, as a novice hobbyist I've been agonising over whether to include this technique. Now that I know that the paints I use will likely obscure the highlights I can just focus on grasping the basics.
Paint is not actually opaque. Literally every paint has some amount of translucency, it’s the nature of having pigments suspended in a medium. You don’t need to use fully transparent paints to make good use of a zenithal.
Really liked the part with the Inks. I've never thought about them being something to use when using Contrast paints. Would love some more videos with examples of when/how to use the Liquitex Inks, using regular brush (as opposed to using them with an airbrush).
Maybe the new paint announcement with be a UV activated Zenithal Black that turns white under direct UV. Then you could set some dramatic lighting highlight angles. Not sure how you'd fix it though...
Congrats on the growth Eons! 100k lets goo!
This is more like "translucent paints are garbage unless you do this"
At 1:34, the primer looks super flakey and speckled. Doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the darker primer. I hate white primer for this and always brush it on to avoid this. It always affects my paints
I liked the video. I also saw a well used Vallejo Goblin Green which is a color that I never managed to get an even coverage. I have such a hard time with it
If your artist is looking for ideas to continue their Vine series I would be down to see a vine golem. Strands of vines wrapped and/or embedded into etched stone to form the golems. Two large pots for pauldrons with tendrils of thorned vines leading into two giant stoned fists. A large chest piece with a stone stand protruding down for the vines to wrap around leading to a base with two stumpy (yes haha plant joke) legs.
I've used this style of zenithal prior but was not a fan, particularly when dealing with skin tonnes. This zenithal style (to me) feels like moon-light late at night.
I do like your emphasis on the type of paint: opaque vs transparency, as it's very important irrespective of the style of zenithal one is trying to achieve.
Have you tried using colour with your zenithal?
Never bothered not even to see where the highlights would go. Maybe its just experience, a new comer painting over grey primer might be as well be blind, but I learned over black primer, and that stuff actually reflects light.
with the mini of the month club is it stls or physical models that you send? love the channel
both are options
And thus, begins the Jay Miniature company
Let’s see a whole set of space marines, one for each chapter, made with this system!!!!!
can I get minis of a 1990's southern nascar pit crew turned death race ?
Subscribed. I love dry brushing, zenithal, and transparent paints. Both contrasts as well as speed paint. But I have yet to dabble in inks.
I'm subscribed to artis opus just got the dry brushing stuff.
If you or others delve deeper into the details (pun intended) on transparent paints. I'll be subscribing to you all
While this video is quite correct in terms of using zenithal for speedpainting, the statement at the start that acrylic paints is incorrect. Your undertones will always impact your final result. All acrylic paint has a hint of transparency, it is the nature of the medium (pun intended). Even if you don't use highly transparent paints, it will take a lot of layers to completely destroy the impact of any underlying zenithal. It will just take a lot less than it would if you were using highly transparent paints.
There is value in using zenithal even if you are using standard mini paints or even heavy body acrylics. It's simply that the level of impact will be different.
I cannot recommend enough if you want to learn more about underpainting and working with easily transparent paints (with spending all the money on speed paints or contrast paints) to try using either water colour (in tubes) or gouache paints. You get a lot of extra play time since you can always reactive the layers with a wet brush and it makes learning wetblending super easy. You can also do fun washes like with oil paints but no need for mineral spirits or dealing with the fumes, since you just wet a sponge or brush and wipe it off where you want to remove it. They are also normally very cheap and all you need to set layers for good is a quick layer of varnish; I like satin for all building layers and mat for the final product but again experiment! After all the hobby is supposed to be fun and exploring different mediums and techniques is where mini painting also starts building art appreciation!
Im still waiting for the old miniature of the month :(
Does eob still do eob complete at the end of his videos
Could you explain what zenithal actually is, I have never heard of it before
A light spray from the zenith (or top) of the model, using lighter colours of paint to create light and shadow
@@jasonmolenaar119 Thank you! Appreciate that 🙂
Really nice quick and relatable tutorial! Thank you
A little late to this video, but here's my request for some minis: bones. I know gw has a the skulls pack, but I don't want to just have skulls lying around. I need some big leg/arm bones, spines and chunky pelvises (humans and other). Pretty much just for basing purposes. Unless something like this already exists that you can point me to, thanks!
Those Knights really look amazing! How long did the whole process take you? It seemed pretty quick!
Where can you buy the STLs?
What light bulbs/type of color do you use? I keep flip flopping between cool white and the warm tone. I can never find a happy medium while learning how to paint. Love your vids btw. Thanks.
Have you tried a daylight balanced bulb? Between 5000K and 6000K?
No, but awesome, thank you for the recommendation. I will look into now.
Tbh, I have way more fun painting with inks than normal paints, super fast, super customizable, super efficient
Absolutely straight to the point and explained brilliantly, Thanks
Beautiful minis and great subject matter. Good job!
Love it. Might have got the kids into painting.
The new mini looks like a good model for malifaux.
seeing the white underneath shows how you used far too little contrast paint. Especially the vines. you wiped it away... why? if you wanted to see the white just do the zenithal and leave it monochromatic.
What white ink did you use?
Great video as always!
Did you spill that bottle of DR just for the Thumbnail? Absolute Madlads
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G-!
Wonderful, wonderful PJ and sculpts.
Do. Another. Layer.
Bam! Keep the zenithal while making the colors pop more.
That's why I use layer paints.
For suggestions,I’d like a half orc wizard, with warhammer as the casting focus.
God, those models look so cool I immediately went and subbed to the patreon. Considering how much of your guys content I watch, probably long overdue for that anyway.
Old school goat headed beast men, some draconians, they seem to have disappeared as well.
LIZARD MEN IN SPACE for mini of the month.
Ohhhh those Vine Knights look sick!! I love themed knights and this is a awesome theme!
The model looks great but I still can't see where the zenithal highlight is. Once the mini is painted, it dissappears.
Wow, I love those sculpts!
Ahh yes, the side zenithal has fast become my most favourite new technique!
I've been championing the power of contrast over a zenithal spray for some months now. I can understand why people would be scared off by leaving their models too dark, but its good to se the strategy catching on.
What kind of undercoats do you use? Ive seen some good paintjobs over a more raw plastic gray
Contrast over Zenithal still requires highlighting to get the best effect.
@@yellowgoblin8934
>I know its you
>shut up about not priming
The idea for new minis, Draconic warriors, is not super original but definitely a lot that can be done with it, and kinda curious of your crews interpretation of this concept
I the idea of producing civilian models has ever crossed the minds of the higher ups at GW I could think of a couple of reasons why they might have decided against it.
It’s probably mostly an ethical issue… depicting civilians fleeing in terror would probably hit too close to home to some people to be looked upon favorably.
I’m not an uptight person, but I also do a lot of historical gaming and that community gets a lot of flak from people that believe it’s outright disrespectful to play historial war games since were literally making games out of the pain and suffering others lived through. Also, historical painting and modeling competitions are pretty strict on the way you feature civilians in dioramas and such.
I could be way off base, but I see the potential for people to do some pretty distasteful things with official GW models of civilians fleeing in terror, and they probably wouldn’t want that kind of pr.
Agree 100% for my type of painting zenithal is a waste of time.
stop telling half true Garbage. there are certain hues of color that greatly benefit from a zenithal undercoat, even when they are opaque. try getting a rich yellow over a black primer, ill wait. but if you have a zenithal undercoat, the OPAQUE yellow suddenly does magic.
I'd love to see kroot proxies
Do ultramarines using a variety of blues and this system!
We March for Macragge!