Fun fact: the Air Force didn't allow facial hair, and after Olds took over, all the men under his command grew out a mustache. They wanted to be like him. Have his talent, have his leadership, and have his epic mustache. Also, dogfights never took place above mach 1. Mach 1 at sea level is like 740 ish mph. The very rough general speed dogfights took place at were between 300-450 mph
When I was working at DFW Airport as a wheelchair guy, one of the passengers I picked up and took to his next flight was a Tuskegee Airman. I can't remember his name but damn was it cool to meet him. I've met several other WW2 vets including one other very special one. Who's name I do remember. US Army Sergent Major Robert Blatnik. Who served in the invasions or Sicily, North Africa, and.... Omaha Beach. His battalion was one of the first on the beach. He lost thousands of men in minutes. You could see the damage it did to him in his eyes. That was probably the coolest person I've ever met. The best part? He lived in my hometown, and I've seen him at the store several times, and even have a picture with him. RIP Mr Blatnik, it was an honor to have met you
When Maverick hit the brakes and caused Jester to overshoot and fly out in front of Maverick, that was based on something Randall Cunningham did as one of the first students at Top Gun.
The trick with this mission, wasn't to make an impact on the outcome...It was solely to remove a threat. It succeeded spectacularly. The MiGs were a problem, Robin Olds was the solution.
Fun fact: I'm a recreational private pilot who operates out of Pensacola Int'l Airport and the Navy has planes doing practice approaches there all the time. All of the Navy planes use the callsign "Bolo"
Olds was a certified badass throughout his career. He's also the only fighter pilot to shoot down an enemy when in glide mode because he forgot to turn on his fuel tanks after dropping the decoy tanks here.
My dad was a crew chief on B52s out of U-Tapao Thailand during Linebacker 2. He flew on 52s over North Vietnam because pilots wouldn't trust the birds if the crew chief wouldn't fly. He also had to land with a maintenance crew while under mortar fire to put a fuel bladder into a B52 that had to make an emergency landing due to all the fuel tanks having holes. When we were watching a show on the bombing of Germany I asked him what Flak looked like he replied "You know, I don't really remember. I was too busy watching for SAMs to pay attention to it.".
My dad flew kc135’s out of U-tapao during the same time. He said flying missions never bothered him until he flew his first night mission and could see everything being fired at them
Removing the jamming pods from the F-105s would make them vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles, so you'd have to send a group of Wild Weasels (planes armed with missiles designed to track and home in on radar sources) to perform a SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) mission to destroy the enemy SAM sites. Unfortunately, attacking the SAM sites was forbidden under the rules of engagement to prevent killing Soviet or Chinese military personnel, as Nic explained.
I believe a great big part of that is the fact that as a pilot you can control what goes on in the air. On the ground though, it’s all up to dumb luck. You just don’t know if a 75 mm or 20 mm is going to get lucky. Every ground unit or battery has at least 1 golden bullet.
The operation was such a success that the Silver Dawn planes collecting on the enemy planes reported that they were losing their shit that instead of intercepting F-105s they were having a scrap against F-4s. This operation had a chain effect. Without Operation Bolo, operation Linebacker 1 and 2 probably wouldn't have happened. Which...well that was a horrible thing that the US did. But Bolo definitely had an effect on the outcome of the war, just not a good one in the long-run
@24:28 Jamming pods could be turned off/disabled but obviously you're vulnerable to attacks from the ground as opposed to the fighters in the air. A similar issue came up in places like Iraq and Afghanistan when trying to counter the threat of IEDs. There were systems on ground vehicles that could prevent IEDs from being detonated, but they could be detected by the enemy which made them more vulnerable to ambushes. It really just comes down to which threat is more concerning at the time, and also which threats could be mitigated by other means.
On the whole killing advisors thing, imo, if their country sends them to a legitimate military target in an active combat zone and they happen to get killed then tough titty. Same standard should apply to all countries.
It's political pretense. You know that, we know that, they know that, but it gives them an excuse. In negotiations between countries it's a given that the countries involved will have different values, and some (particularly the Soviets) leverage that by claiming to be offended at unreasonable things like that to be a bargaining chip against other countries being offended by internationally recognized war crimes.
Or: Rus/Chi would escalate & send in ground forces, and they're closer. I will go back & check but I think some of this is left out for a more entertaining video.
@@Merennulliworked out real well for the Russian during the battle of conoco fields when we decimated the Russians and they said “no uh that technically wasn’t our forces”
@@Alvan81It is. He intentionally leaves parts out so you have to watch the original. That's why he has a good relationship with all these content creators.
@@DemocracyOfficer2485 Yeah, it's not a universally effective strategy. They can pick and choose when to act on it, and obviously they don't care about their own people that they lose either way.
If possible can you react to the Fat Electrician’s William D Porter the unluckiest ship with the luckiest crew. She shot at multiple admirals, generals and the President without getting punished.
I love watching these reaction videos because not only did i learn something when i watched it the first time i learn more now and get some perspective thank you so much
I understand the "gain visual contact" on enemy planes but this was the reason why "Engaging from a distance" fell apart immediately The F-4 at first didn’t have a Cannon because they thought Missiles would be better suited, unfortunately only 14% ever hit anything and the Mig-17,19 and 21 had guns when the F-4 didn’t and were getting shot down along with F-105 "Thuds" plus pilots weren’t being trained to dogfight properly But then Robert Olds changed that when he and Daniel C. Jr had taken lead and actually trained them to dogfight in the F-4 and particularly mentioned the Phantom needed a Cannon On top of that the F-4 was a Interceptor, not a Fighter which was why it wasn’t built with a Gun
Regarding the beyond visual range missile shooting ..... The Aim-9 Sidewinders and Aim-7 Sparrows of the time didn't work NEARLY as well as expected. Especially at longer range. BVR they use the Sparrow, but that's only semi-active radar homing (SARH) so the firing aircraft has to keep its radar on the target. If they break lock --- for instance, maneuvering against enemy missiles, cuz they had BVR missiles and short-range IR missiles as well -- the Sparrow ain't gonna hit anything; just fly dumb, and they weren't able to re-aquire if the plane re-locked at that time.
In "Iron Eagle" Louis Gossit Jr played a fighter pilot named "Col. Chappy". I dont know if its true, but i hope his character was named after the real Chappy
I love all the Vietnam content out there recently. I been binge watching John Stryker Meyer’s “SOG-cast” with all of his old MAC-V SOG buddies. First hand stories from the guys who were legit across the fence in North Vietnam, Lao’s and Cambodia.
The reason for visual confirmation REOs were basically to avoid a blue-on-blue. America has a lot of planes in the air over Vietnam and the earlier gen models of of air-to-air missiles were unreliable. This could result in a lock on friendly etc. Early models of the Sparrow such as the AIM-7E were technically BVR missiles, but they were beam riders slaved to the plane firing it negating some of that BVR capability.
The ROE in the air for visual confirmation was implemented due to a "friendly fire" incident in which two F-105s were shot down, from beyond visual range, by American fighters, I believe.
New to your channel. But a huge fan of Nick. Seen this video multiple times (1 time Nick's others reaction). Love your addition of historical facts and giving some perspective.
@MrTerry Your comment about dogfighting reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from my favorite author, Basically, if a portion of the effort it takes for 2 enemies to meet on the field of combat were put into finding a peaceful solution, there would be no more war. Planes are only big when you are standing next to them.... In the whole sky a plane is a minuscule speck of dust.... Traveling at 1400 mph!
So, toward the end you mention that it had little effect on the overall war and didn't get them any closer to "whatever victory was supposed to look like." I think you have the same problem I had for a long time in that, like you, I thought the Vietnam War ended in a stalemate at best and a devastating loss at worst. But that's not what happened. This did have a pretty big impact on the war by sidelining the migs for the rest of the war and opening up the bombing campaign but, more importantly, it set the stage of desperation for the Tet Offensive which, as we were taught in school, was a devastating military loss for America and a great victory for the North Vietnamese, with all those pictures of the North Vietnamese soldiers in the US Embassy in Saigon. But what neither of us was taught was that within 3 hours of those pictures being taken, there was not a single North Vietnamese soldier left in South Vietnam. The ultimate outcome of the Tet Offensive was the destruction of 90% of the North Vietnamese army and ~95% of the Viet Cong, pushing them to the table for the Paris Peace Accords which officially ended the war. It was only after the US pulled out of Vietnam that the North was able to take South Vietnam, and only because the US had promised South Vietnam military aid that, due to budget cuts under Nixon, mandated by a Democrat congress, never materialized.
12:44 My mother and I were talking about history yesterday while bathing the dogs, and it was notably about Victorian Nobles, the French Revolution, a young Japanese ruler, and transportation (+ the fear of). Mamá was talking about how crazy fast and recent the development of major transportation was when just before Queen Victoria, people essentially had horses and boats. That even with cars, professionals feared going over 20mph. I mentioned that I had heard a show she was watching talk about the persecution of dudes who thought earth wasn’t the center of the universe, and if someone invented a steam locomotive or whatever any sooner, they’d be called heretics and be burned alive. The scientists, engineers, and inventors may have been able to do it sooner but were held back by society. But in response to the 20mph limit, I mentioned that the human body can take about 5Gs before pilots go blind. I just looked it up, and trained pilots can withstand 10 Gs. We ride roller coasters bc G Forces are thrilling and fun. 20mph being the body’s limit is laughable. How did they come up with that number?
People demand answers, and demand that they be delivered with authoritative voices. Answer-guys provided answers, authoritatively...the fact that they were arbitrary nonsense was discovered long after they had retired and were enjoying cocaine-laced soft drinks.
Military guys with zero fear of heights are carved from lead. I’m made from clay for sure. AND HOW DO WE HAVE THAT FOOTAGE? The camera guys knew or heard the F4s before the NSA knew?
The half way in/out is right. If politicians send the military somewhere then fuck off and let us do our thing. Stop handicapping us and just let us do our jobs. If you don’t want that then don’t send us there in the first place
It is important to remember that we did have a Victory in Vietnam day. We did successfully drive the north's forces out of the south. The problem was we stopped there. If the goal was to obliterate the communist rule in the country we could have and it wouldn't have ended in the disaster it did. Once again, those politicians got involved and didn't see the whole thing through.
The reason he does that is so you watch the original. He only has a good relationship with these content creators because he respects them enough to do that.
18:26 I’ve known that was on planes into WWII, and “that symbol” means a lot to many cultures who have traditions and cannot abandon it. You’ll see that symbol and it reversed in quite a few Bollywood movies with a marriage in it. Maybe when meeting the parents, probably when the couple enters their house for the first time. It’s like a nose ring on the left side symbolizing fertility. The symbol gets drawn on the forehead in red pigment. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen that symbol so many times in one photo
I appreciate the historical context here. I always thought it was pretty messed up to put such a bind to how they fought the in Vietnam, but I never really took into consideration how fragile the situation was and it's understandable to an extent, but I can't help but feel so bad for all the young gentleman that died because of these rules.
If the US politicians were too concerned about superpower diplomats getting caught in the crossfire, I'm confused why they didn't send a message to China telling them "hey, we got a job to do, get your people out of Vietnam or they'll get the suppository treatment too"? Am i underestimating that tactic?
You're* underestimating the enemy. You tell them you're going to drop there so they have to leave, they say "No.", now you have to choose between looking weak by backing down or escalating to war with them _AND_ they can now point to them warning you their people weren't leaving meaning you knew who you were dropping bombs on.
I love my MiG-21bis in DCS World. And soon there will be F-4E Phantom II's to go against 'em. Still no F-105 Thuds tho, except as mods. A-6 and EA-6B are coming too tho, as well as A-7 and F-8. There's also an incredible free A-4 community mod that is fully up to the standards of paid modules. Also tho, we don't have a 'Nam map. Or Korea.
Sorry but if a country is going to send their people into a warzone then they should expect those people to die not be a limitation to the millitary force that is in war with whatever enemy they happen to be against
Yea I’m going to disagree with you there on a major point here constitution gives the president the head of the government military leader and sole entity of foreign relations for a reason you could absolutely just say fuck all that and ignore it you just need a strong confident leader to do so the people in charge of Vietnam were everything but that
Yep as a historian you don't cut the primary source in a story. It would be like talking about FDR's adress to congress without the recording starting with "December 7th 1941, a date that will live in infamy..." when you have it on hand.
To me, your observation about how little overall impact the operation would have on the war aligns with something I have known for decades "tactical success does not always translate to strategic victory" ("this fight is over, but the war continues" is another version of this concept)
"Its hard to digest that these things happen". I agree but as I learn more about relativity it makes more since. While your ate moving insanely fat. Co.pared to the other plane it's only minor differences. This is taking nothing away from the insanity that is being a fighter pilot. I'm just saying, when you think about it like that it's not so mind blowing
I love your capitalization that not ALL of the politicians decisions were that dumb. The visual confirmation rule made a whole lot of sense at that time. Remember (or heard about) the backlash when the Soviets shot down that Korean Airlines Flight (KAL 902)? Or how about that time the Soviets shot down that Korean Airlines Flight (KAL 007)?
Only ONE corridor? I know other countries don’t want the US flying over them with bombs, but at that point, you’re just sending the Air Force to death. Might as well pull out if you can’t have multiple points of access to NV in the air. And the US didn’t respect other countries’ wishes during the Cold War anyway. One of the “broken arrows” dropped on Spain, which we weren’t supposed to be flying over anyway, right? The Fat Electrician or his guest host talked about that in the video about two nukes falling in North Carolina.
One more comment excusing/supporting these idiotic politicians I'm bailing on the video. His perspective is soooo polar opposite of TFE and every other reactor I've seen thus far it's crazy, smh
It takes a politician to see the logic in rules of engagement putting Americans at the very real risk of death or capture in order to avoid the theoretical risk of friendly fire that is only necessitated by the continued survival of the enemy that could have been destroyed if not for the rules of engagement.
Like this comment to pay respects to Goose in Top Gun. Gone, but never forgotten. o7
Positive ghost rider, he lives on in all of our hearts.
The video says it was posted 5 minutes ago, but this comment is an hour old-
Amen.
o7
o7
Fun fact: the Air Force didn't allow facial hair, and after Olds took over, all the men under his command grew out a mustache. They wanted to be like him. Have his talent, have his leadership, and have his epic mustache. Also, dogfights never took place above mach 1. Mach 1 at sea level is like 740 ish mph. The very rough general speed dogfights took place at were between 300-450 mph
When I was working at DFW Airport as a wheelchair guy, one of the passengers I picked up and took to his next flight was a Tuskegee Airman. I can't remember his name but damn was it cool to meet him. I've met several other WW2 vets including one other very special one. Who's name I do remember. US Army Sergent Major Robert Blatnik. Who served in the invasions or Sicily, North Africa, and.... Omaha Beach. His battalion was one of the first on the beach. He lost thousands of men in minutes. You could see the damage it did to him in his eyes. That was probably the coolest person I've ever met. The best part? He lived in my hometown, and I've seen him at the store several times, and even have a picture with him. RIP Mr Blatnik, it was an honor to have met you
It sounds like Top Gun because Robin Olds is literally the man that got a gun put on the F4 and developed the Top Gun Program.
When Maverick hit the brakes and caused Jester to overshoot and fly out in front of Maverick, that was based on something Randall Cunningham did as one of the first students at Top Gun.
Bud Anderson was critical in convincing the air force to put a gun on the phantom too. He and Robin Olds worked well together.
The trick with this mission, wasn't to make an impact on the outcome...It was solely to remove a threat. It succeeded spectacularly. The MiGs were a problem, Robin Olds was the solution.
Fun fact: I'm a recreational private pilot who operates out of Pensacola Int'l Airport and the Navy has planes doing practice approaches there all the time. All of the Navy planes use the callsign "Bolo"
Olds was a certified badass throughout his career. He's also the only fighter pilot to shoot down an enemy when in glide mode because he forgot to turn on his fuel tanks after dropping the decoy tanks here.
Mr. Terry covering Fat Electrician is one of my favorite things to watch on TH-cam right now. What a team! 😊
My dad was a crew chief on B52s out of U-Tapao Thailand during Linebacker 2. He flew on 52s over North Vietnam because pilots wouldn't trust the birds if the crew chief wouldn't fly. He also had to land with a maintenance crew while under mortar fire to put a fuel bladder into a B52 that had to make an emergency landing due to all the fuel tanks having holes. When we were watching a show on the bombing of Germany I asked him what Flak looked like he replied "You know, I don't really remember. I was too busy watching for SAMs to pay attention to it.".
Respect
My dad flew kc135’s out of U-tapao during the same time. He said flying missions never bothered him until he flew his first night mission and could see everything being fired at them
I think the funniest part about the politician point. If you wanna know how he feels he just put out a video about the IRS today lol
Damn he missed the archive footage at the end of the video.
Removing the jamming pods from the F-105s would make them vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles, so you'd have to send a group of Wild Weasels (planes armed with missiles designed to track and home in on radar sources) to perform a SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) mission to destroy the enemy SAM sites. Unfortunately, attacking the SAM sites was forbidden under the rules of engagement to prevent killing Soviet or Chinese military personnel, as Nic explained.
24:36, as ive heard, fighter pilots are always more worried about stuff coming from the ground than stuff in the air
I believe a great big part of that is the fact that as a pilot you can control what goes on in the air. On the ground though, it’s all up to dumb luck. You just don’t know if a 75 mm or 20 mm is going to get lucky. Every ground unit or battery has at least 1 golden bullet.
The operation was such a success that the Silver Dawn planes collecting on the enemy planes reported that they were losing their shit that instead of intercepting F-105s they were having a scrap against F-4s.
This operation had a chain effect. Without Operation Bolo, operation Linebacker 1 and 2 probably wouldn't have happened. Which...well that was a horrible thing that the US did. But Bolo definitely had an effect on the outcome of the war, just not a good one in the long-run
@24:28 Jamming pods could be turned off/disabled but obviously you're vulnerable to attacks from the ground as opposed to the fighters in the air. A similar issue came up in places like Iraq and Afghanistan when trying to counter the threat of IEDs. There were systems on ground vehicles that could prevent IEDs from being detonated, but they could be detected by the enemy which made them more vulnerable to ambushes. It really just comes down to which threat is more concerning at the time, and also which threats could be mitigated by other means.
2:18 what did that door gunner say...."If they run they're VC, if they stay still they're well trained VC." 😅😢😅
On the whole killing advisors thing, imo, if their country sends them to a legitimate military target in an active combat zone and they happen to get killed then tough titty. Same standard should apply to all countries.
It's political pretense. You know that, we know that, they know that, but it gives them an excuse. In negotiations between countries it's a given that the countries involved will have different values, and some (particularly the Soviets) leverage that by claiming to be offended at unreasonable things like that to be a bargaining chip against other countries being offended by internationally recognized war crimes.
Or: Rus/Chi would escalate & send in ground forces, and they're closer. I will go back & check but I think some of this is left out for a more entertaining video.
@@Merennulliworked out real well for the Russian during the battle of conoco fields when we decimated the Russians and they said “no uh that technically wasn’t our forces”
@@Alvan81It is. He intentionally leaves parts out so you have to watch the original. That's why he has a good relationship with all these content creators.
@@DemocracyOfficer2485 Yeah, it's not a universally effective strategy. They can pick and choose when to act on it, and obviously they don't care about their own people that they lose either way.
If possible can you react to the Fat Electrician’s William D Porter the unluckiest ship with the luckiest crew. She shot at multiple admirals, generals and the President without getting punished.
I second this.
Shot at, yes
I love watching these reaction videos because not only did i learn something when i watched it the first time i learn more now and get some perspective thank you so much
Same. And I feel weird watching the actual video 10 times…. Kinda stalkerish….
Fun fact, due to the lack of air to air training during the Vietnam War, the Navy created the Top Gun air to air combat school
I understand the "gain visual contact" on enemy planes but this was the reason why "Engaging from a distance" fell apart immediately
The F-4 at first didn’t have a Cannon because they thought Missiles would be better suited, unfortunately only 14% ever hit anything and the Mig-17,19 and 21 had guns when the F-4 didn’t and were getting shot down along with F-105 "Thuds" plus pilots weren’t being trained to dogfight properly
But then Robert Olds changed that when he and Daniel C. Jr had taken lead and actually trained them to dogfight in the F-4 and particularly mentioned the Phantom needed a Cannon
On top of that the F-4 was a Interceptor, not a Fighter which was why it wasn’t built with a Gun
This video was awesome, I had made a presentation on Robin Olds in history class and I was super excited about it when I saw it
Robin Olds is still so well respected that even to this day, we honor him by growing our mustaches during March
Visual confirmation was after a few friendly fire incidents, target identifiers didn’t work as well as intended
Regarding the beyond visual range missile shooting ..... The Aim-9 Sidewinders and Aim-7 Sparrows of the time didn't work NEARLY as well as expected. Especially at longer range. BVR they use the Sparrow, but that's only semi-active radar homing (SARH) so the firing aircraft has to keep its radar on the target. If they break lock --- for instance, maneuvering against enemy missiles, cuz they had BVR missiles and short-range IR missiles as well -- the Sparrow ain't gonna hit anything; just fly dumb, and they weren't able to re-aquire if the plane re-locked at that time.
In "Iron Eagle" Louis Gossit Jr played a fighter pilot named "Col. Chappy". I dont know if its true, but i hope his character was named after the real Chappy
I believe he was
I love all the Vietnam content out there recently. I been binge watching John Stryker Meyer’s “SOG-cast” with all of his old MAC-V SOG buddies. First hand stories from the guys who were legit across the fence in North Vietnam, Lao’s and Cambodia.
The reason for visual confirmation REOs were basically to avoid a blue-on-blue.
America has a lot of planes in the air over Vietnam and the earlier gen models of of air-to-air missiles were unreliable. This could result in a lock on friendly etc. Early models of the Sparrow such as the AIM-7E were technically BVR missiles, but they were beam riders slaved to the plane firing it negating some of that BVR capability.
This video was awesome! Thanks for covering this Terry!
The ROE in the air for visual confirmation was implemented due to a "friendly fire" incident in which two F-105s were shot down, from beyond visual range, by American fighters, I believe.
New to your channel. But a huge fan of Nick. Seen this video multiple times (1 time Nick's others reaction). Love your addition of historical facts and giving some perspective.
"I'll go downtown with you"
Politicians ruin things. You can go to any government run location and see politician rules ruining your day
@MrTerry Your comment about dogfighting reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from my favorite author, Basically, if a portion of the effort it takes for 2 enemies to meet on the field of combat were put into finding a peaceful solution, there would be no more war. Planes are only big when you are standing next to them.... In the whole sky a plane is a minuscule speck of dust.... Traveling at 1400 mph!
So, toward the end you mention that it had little effect on the overall war and didn't get them any closer to "whatever victory was supposed to look like." I think you have the same problem I had for a long time in that, like you, I thought the Vietnam War ended in a stalemate at best and a devastating loss at worst. But that's not what happened. This did have a pretty big impact on the war by sidelining the migs for the rest of the war and opening up the bombing campaign but, more importantly, it set the stage of desperation for the Tet Offensive which, as we were taught in school, was a devastating military loss for America and a great victory for the North Vietnamese, with all those pictures of the North Vietnamese soldiers in the US Embassy in Saigon. But what neither of us was taught was that within 3 hours of those pictures being taken, there was not a single North Vietnamese soldier left in South Vietnam. The ultimate outcome of the Tet Offensive was the destruction of 90% of the North Vietnamese army and ~95% of the Viet Cong, pushing them to the table for the Paris Peace Accords which officially ended the war. It was only after the US pulled out of Vietnam that the North was able to take South Vietnam, and only because the US had promised South Vietnam military aid that, due to budget cuts under Nixon, mandated by a Democrat congress, never materialized.
Chappy.. Louis Gossett Jr in Iron Eagle.
Yep the real life model.
12:44 My mother and I were talking about history yesterday while bathing the dogs, and it was notably about Victorian Nobles, the French Revolution, a young Japanese ruler, and transportation (+ the fear of). Mamá was talking about how crazy fast and recent the development of major transportation was when just before Queen Victoria, people essentially had horses and boats. That even with cars, professionals feared going over 20mph. I mentioned that I had heard a show she was watching talk about the persecution of dudes who thought earth wasn’t the center of the universe, and if someone invented a steam locomotive or whatever any sooner, they’d be called heretics and be burned alive. The scientists, engineers, and inventors may have been able to do it sooner but were held back by society. But in response to the 20mph limit, I mentioned that the human body can take about 5Gs before pilots go blind. I just looked it up, and trained pilots can withstand 10 Gs. We ride roller coasters bc G Forces are thrilling and fun. 20mph being the body’s limit is laughable. How did they come up with that number?
People demand answers, and demand that they be delivered with authoritative voices. Answer-guys provided answers, authoritatively...the fact that they were arbitrary nonsense was discovered long after they had retired and were enjoying cocaine-laced soft drinks.
Someone in our government definitely wanted us to lose that war.
The MIC wanted it to go that way. Vietnam was crucial in the expansion of govt control and dod spending.
One of those someones was named Biden.
FJB!
It’s almost as if the politicians and bureaucrats wanted to make this war last longer than it should have.
37:48 We just had a super successful, victorious mission! Politicians probably said "Dont you worry, well fix that right up!"
Military guys with zero fear of heights are carved from lead. I’m made from clay for sure. AND HOW DO WE HAVE THAT FOOTAGE? The camera guys knew or heard the F4s before the NSA knew?
You missed the bonus footage at the end
HE’S GOT THE S.T.E.A.L. MERCH
Nick hates two things: Communists and politicians. There's often a fair overlap between the two.
It must be mindblowing to control one of these glass cannons loaded with what is essentially, alien tech.
Stories like this are the main reason why the Vietnam War is my least favorite to learn about.
The half way in/out is right. If politicians send the military somewhere then fuck off and let us do our thing. Stop handicapping us and just let us do our jobs. If you don’t want that then don’t send us there in the first place
It is important to remember that we did have a Victory in Vietnam day. We did successfully drive the north's forces out of the south. The problem was we stopped there. If the goal was to obliterate the communist rule in the country we could have and it wouldn't have ended in the disaster it did. Once again, those politicians got involved and didn't see the whole thing through.
You skipped their whole funny ass skit for the ad. You also skipped the videos at the end. Stop ending his videos early
The reason he does that is so you watch the original. He only has a good relationship with these content creators because he respects them enough to do that.
Bugs me more when he skips the parting comment at the end of the videos.
18:26 I’ve known that was on planes into WWII, and “that symbol” means a lot to many cultures who have traditions and cannot abandon it. You’ll see that symbol and it reversed in quite a few Bollywood movies with a marriage in it. Maybe when meeting the parents, probably when the couple enters their house for the first time. It’s like a nose ring on the left side symbolizing fertility. The symbol gets drawn on the forehead in red pigment. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen that symbol so many times in one photo
Real fisherman here. Real fishing brings home real fish. That's why it's better, food.
Missiles at the time were garbage, which is another major reason they put a gun on the Phantom.
I appreciate the historical context here. I always thought it was pretty messed up to put such a bind to how they fought the in Vietnam, but I never really took into consideration how fragile the situation was and it's understandable to an extent, but I can't help but feel so bad for all the young gentleman that died because of these rules.
If the US politicians were too concerned about superpower diplomats getting caught in the crossfire, I'm confused why they didn't send a message to China telling them "hey, we got a job to do, get your people out of Vietnam or they'll get the suppository treatment too"? Am i underestimating that tactic?
You're* underestimating the enemy. You tell them you're going to drop there so they have to leave, they say "No.", now you have to choose between looking weak by backing down or escalating to war with them _AND_ they can now point to them warning you their people weren't leaving meaning you knew who you were dropping bombs on.
I love my MiG-21bis in DCS World. And soon there will be F-4E Phantom II's to go against 'em.
Still no F-105 Thuds tho, except as mods. A-6 and EA-6B are coming too tho, as well as A-7 and F-8. There's also an incredible free A-4 community mod that is fully up to the standards of paid modules.
Also tho, we don't have a 'Nam map. Or Korea.
Watch his tax video that just came out if you want his opinion on politics
Sorry but if a country is going to send their people into a warzone then they should expect those people to die not be a limitation to the millitary force that is in war with whatever enemy they happen to be against
Said the same thing
I think that it was all but confirmed by the North and The Soviets that there were indeed Russian pilots flying those Mig-21's. Soook...yeah
Military/combat wise America won but political side America lost.
Why would the soviets planes be EVEN CLOSE to flying near Vietnam during this time? This doesn't make sense.
*bury the light intensifies*
Didn't the Mig-21 had their own missiles at the time?
Fat electrician released another video today
Yea I’m going to disagree with you there on a major point here constitution gives the president the head of the government military leader and sole entity of foreign relations for a reason you could absolutely just say fuck all that and ignore it you just need a strong confident leader to do so the people in charge of Vietnam were everything but that
You should check out Tasting History
Edit issues. You cut out the funny ad skit and you cut off the end with the pilots in their own words.
Yep as a historian you don't cut the primary source in a story. It would be like talking about FDR's adress to congress without the recording starting with "December 7th 1941, a date that will live in infamy..." when you have it on hand.
I'm out...what an insane perspective
We were involving ourselves in a proxy war against them, not the other way around. We never should have involved ourselves in this war.
Fun Fact: Robin Olds is one of the people that inspired Mustache March in the military.
To me, your observation about how little overall impact the operation would have on the war aligns with something I have known for decades "tactical success does not always translate to strategic victory" ("this fight is over, but the war continues" is another version of this concept)
"Its hard to digest that these things happen".
I agree but as I learn more about relativity it makes more since. While your ate moving insanely fat. Co.pared to the other plane it's only minor differences. This is taking nothing away from the insanity that is being a fighter pilot. I'm just saying, when you think about it like that it's not so mind blowing
Love the shirt 😂
You need to stop ending the Fat Electrician videos before they complete.
I love your capitalization that not ALL of the politicians decisions were that dumb. The visual confirmation rule made a whole lot of sense at that time. Remember (or heard about) the backlash when the Soviets shot down that Korean Airlines Flight (KAL 902)? Or how about that time the Soviets shot down that Korean Airlines Flight (KAL 007)?
Both of those were visually confirmed as civilian and not in active war zones. The Soviet Union was entirely in the wrong on those.
You’ve got to make sure that you finish the video!!!!!! You missed two interviews
Only ONE corridor? I know other countries don’t want the US flying over them with bombs, but at that point, you’re just sending the Air Force to death. Might as well pull out if you can’t have multiple points of access to NV in the air. And the US didn’t respect other countries’ wishes during the Cold War anyway. One of the “broken arrows” dropped on Spain, which we weren’t supposed to be flying over anyway, right? The Fat Electrician or his guest host talked about that in the video about two nukes falling in North Carolina.
26:40 Oh. Okay
One more comment excusing/supporting these idiotic politicians I'm bailing on the video. His perspective is soooo polar opposite of TFE and every other reactor I've seen thus far it's crazy, smh
Wutdahell
To be honest this seems like Congressional overreach
It takes a politician to see the logic in rules of engagement putting Americans at the very real risk of death or capture in order to avoid the theoretical risk of friendly fire that is only necessitated by the continued survival of the enemy that could have been destroyed if not for the rules of engagement.
well mr terry these same arguements could be used for ukraine right now. why give them money
Shouldn't be in any war if you don't have a end game which the Vietnam war didn't every have you lose, which we did.
Have to downvote for cutting wifei. Even if it is an ad it is funny.
I'm the first to comment and like this video
Erm actually, Mr. Terry commented first ☝️🤓
Omg another talker
Y'all folks piggy backing off TFE content is getting old fast
You're a history teacher... why not just make your own videos? you have nearly half a million subs... reacting is not content creation.