This is pretty awesome!!! Will comment more later. But I've got some hot tea for you. Did some snooping last night and I found an article that'll knock your socks off. I'll put the link in the Twitter DM.
And that's why I'm going thru a +20-minute monolog explaining the backstory, the drama, the motivations and all that fun stuff. Once they understand THAT part of the story it's easy to see why the Shining was made the way it was... :)
I listened to first 20 minutes. All I can do right now, I'll listen to the rest later when I get a chance. Want to make a few comments on what I've heard so far. 1st---I think the deleted final scene was cut for two reasons a) it really does give too much away. I think Kubrick's story is still intact, indeed, maybe MORE intact without that final scene, though it does become a bit blurred and amorphous. And b) I believe the stories told about how test runs showed the impact on the audience being greater without that final scene. Stanley wanted the most successful movie commercially too, especially after Barry Lyndon being panned. (I love BL, btw.) 2nd--About Jack thinking he was Hemingway. I haven't read the book, so I don't know how that flowed. But in Kubrick's Shining, I feel that both Jack and Wendy are delusional. Its two separate delusions that begin to clash with each other. And I think Hotel Management (both in the spiritual and physical realm) pit them against each other. Yes, I am one who believes there is a supernatural element to the story, but I also believe there is a mental illness element too. And both elements fuse together over this one question: Who will sacrifice who? I think in the end, the Hotel Management preferred to have Danny alive for his "talents." But a sacrifice still had to be made, so management sacrificed Jack. When Wendy drives away in the Snow Cat, you can see the "double cross" as they pass by. It's to the right of them. Look into the symbolism of the "double cross" if you're not familiar. That's some deep ssh1tt Stanley was stirring with that clue. 3rd-- There is no evidence it didn't snow at all until a month later, just that THE STORM came a month later. Its normal for there to be minor flurries until "the big one" comes. And as far as limited time the hotel is in operation each year---the money issue for the hotel is not an "issue" at all IMHO. The Hotel is not run to make a profit. Rather, the Hotel is a perverted playground and sacrificial alter for all "the best people." Both the living and the dead "best people." These are just my theories and opinions. I don't claim to be "right." The movie can and will be studied until Kingdom Come without everything being definitively answered by consensus. (That's part of its charm, of course.) I will enjoy your video and ideas anyway. Just need more time to listen to the rest. It is a fascinating subject. Take care!
I do agree the ending was cut because it gave away too much. Although Ms M (in one of her videos) talked about the deleted ending. I was wondering about the [...] in Ullmans conversation - So I believe there was more to the ending than what was shown in the 2 pages that she found. I do think the ending implies no ghosts and could be in Wendy head. And I think that would kill the movie. I did wonder if the ending could imply that Wendy, Jack and Danny were in that car accident. The scene that Hallorann passed with the Volkswagen and the Truck. But Ullman does say "he searched the Overlook" which is also odd... Who is "he"? The Hemingway reference came from me. In the book (I read part of the book). Jack happens to sell a short story to a magazine, then he gets drunk. Selling a short story is not saying you're a successful writer to the point where you can just write and create fame or destroy lives. I know this thinking feed off the Pen is mightier than the sword - but I think this meaning was more about the ability to rewrite history. Jack was not a famous writer. Jack was out of work, and he need a job. I think Stanley Kubrick would have picked up on this too. And if Stanley Kubrick asked the questions that crossed my mind to Stephen King (and if King was on drugs and acting like a narcissist - he would of took the questions as an insult). According to Diane Johnson, she was surprised to find out how well-read Stanley Kubrick was. She said they would talk on the phone for hours about books. The snow - In the book before the snow Jack, Wendy and Danny were able to drive off the Overlook to the neighboring town (which makes no sense why the Overlook was being closed). In the movie, yeah it's hard to tell when it snowed in the movie. The title card says "A Month Later" and that could mean 30 days from now or the just the Next month. We believe the Torrances showed up on October 31st (according to the interview) and November 1st is the next month... That's why I feel everything is happening in November - not December... True about the Hotel and Ms .M thinks the Hotel was something shady like a Brothel... On the other hand, I think the Overlook Hotel is an Asylum. This wouldn't be based on the Wendy Theory... but it still works with the No Ghosts theory as well as hallucinations - and the best people could be crazy people locked up... I do need to make a video on this one too... but I'm hoping to buy a better microphone, I'm not too fond with the one I have. Thanks for watching the video so far, don't rush into it. I'm not expecting a lot of views on this video. I just wanted to say stuff and start a conversation.
@@tankardoftales4645 An Asylum? lol. I had never thought of that. I will consider that. At this point, I see it as a "party asylum" for "all the best people" and a forced asylum and sacrificial alter for the caretakers and all the other "help." Boy this movie really can inspire many different interpretations. Thanks for your reply. I, like you, am still rolling around many ideas about this movie. I could change my opinion at any time, so nothing set in stone. Take care!
@@davegentry-pu9xm Believe it or not - hedge mazes (although not as tall in the Overlook) was used in Asylums for therapy. Yeah I need to make a video on the Asylum theory...
@@davegentry-pu9xm and 3 Women (Shelley Duvall movie) - In that movie she plays a nurse and there is painting of a Hedge Maze... You should watch 3 Women (This is the movie that made Kubrick cast Shelley Duvall). I would question Nurse (The story is about Multiple Personalities)
"Yes, honey, there is a ghost in Room 237. And she was so sexy I tried to bed her down until she began to morph into your cackling dead mother while her rotting body oozed between my fingers." If this did actually happen, this is not a conversation Jack would have with anyone, let alone his mentally disturbed, horror junkie wife. If this did happen, it is something he was likely not to admit to himself either because, let's face it---this is an incredibly phukked up situation. I agree that Wendy is "crazy" and is abusive to Danny. I think that is undeniable based on the clues Kubrick gave. But I think Kubrick also gave clues that there ARE supernatural forces at work too. And those supernatural forces are "management." Management "psychically" interacts and directs its higher up physical employees like Ullman and Halloran. (Think of Halloran in his Miami hotel room.) And Management "psychically" messes with the heads of Jack, Wendy, and Danny, pitting them all against each other. Who will be sacrificed? Who will be "redrummed?" Will the whole family go down, like Delbert Grady was ordered to do, or should one or more of Jack's family be preserved? Management is "all the best people"---whether they be living or dead. Reincarnation has been a very popular belief among "all the best people" long before the idea became popularized in the West by pop culture icons like the Beatles in the 1960s. That's what a lot of this movie is about--the "best people's" divine right of king's principle, and their view of all the "little people" like the Torrances. They were ALWAYS the caretakers and always will be. While management continues its "Great party, isn't it?" attitude for eternity. Jack is the "care taker" forever while management remains "care-LESS" forever. This theme would have been obscured if that final scene had not been cut in lieu of the final scene we have now. Though, if the original final scene had been left in, more of the details of how this works on the physical plain would have been more readily apparent. Of course, again. Just my opinion. Sharing it here with you as you've shared yours with us. I just discovered Miss M's channel through yours, and am very pleased to listen to you both, whether we agree on everything or not. Ciao!
Thanks and so correct... There is no way Jack could explain the women to Wendy. And to be honest, in that scene the ghost women she seemed to reminds me of the Greek Myth of the Siren Call.
I'm always open for new opinions, ideas and suggestions too... Even if it doesn't align with me. And super thanks... Also you'll enjoy Miss M's work :)
Yet another brilliant layer of analysis by another brilliant analyst, which both of you obviously ARE, in my opinion! LLOVE IT, and love this channel, gentlemen! 😊💚🙏👍
@@jeanlloydbradberry9099 Thanks. I hope you check out The Object of Art channel too. she does a deeper analysis into the Shining and a few other movies as well as art in general.
Also, I agree the Maze does not exist physically. But the Maze was created in the mental realm by Management. Wendy was first "infected" by the Maze through multitudinous horror novels, by media, which exacerbated her own mental illness. And Stanley was pointing the finger at SK himself, like Miss M has suggested, who probably didn't write all his own books but was a kind of "storefront" for the many "ghost"-writers @ Management's command. This is really deep shh1tt man, if I'm right. And circular in its reasoning and presentation by Kubrick. Lots of great stuff to think about.
Some people think the Overlook created the Hege Maze... As for Wendy, Jack tells us she loves horror and I believe she is reading a horror novel in the book - but the only book we see Wendy reading is Catcher in the Rye (it's not a horror book).. On the other hand, when I originally saw the Shining I thought all those books were Jack's because he need books to research his writing, then later it seems that these books could be Wendys because she's home most of the time... but what happens to all those books, we don't see them in the Overlook.
@@tankardoftales4645 Well, I'm pretty sure those books were the ONLY contents inside that impossible pile of luggage in the Overlook lobby!!! lol. But seriously, I always assumed the books were Wendy's because of Jack's comment that she was into horror and ghost stories. As far as CITRye goes, I see that as a kind of book "management" likes to plant on people to completely discredit them. I can think of a few cases in real life where that happened.
@@davegentry-pu9xm I would think that too... The problem about the Catcher in the Rye - the mind control conspiracy theory seemed to come from after the murder of John Lennon and the attempted murder of Reagan. That's after the release of The Shining.
@@tankardoftales4645 True. But there is always the possibility that Kubrick had inside info on this. In the "conspiracy world" there was not much talk of EWS parties and sacrifice before EWS was released in 99. I'm about your age, so I can remember quite clearly the progression down through the years of this kind thing being talked about. Its just something to consider. Kubrick knew ALOT that the general public didn't.
@@davegentry-pu9xm Agree and you are so right... But 30 years ago, we didn't have the internet. Although, I think if we were sitting in the backyard (with a few others) we would be spinning some wild stuff :) I think once I get a few videos covered on the Shining I'll be moving to Full Metal Jack and Eyes Wide Shut. I do believe all 3 movies are part of a trilogy.
What you said about the Colorado Lounge scene is EXTREMELY intriguing. I didn't know they used a dummy for the Danny character when Wendy is holding him and saying "You did this to him. You son of a bitch!" But it makes perfect sense. He looks very stiff and motionless. I don't know how I feel about the Danny gets murdered by Wendy theory. I have to think about that for a while.
Lol. Im not to fond of the idea that Wendy molesting Danny and killing him too. But thats how I'm seeing this based on the clues and putting them into context that Wendy is a crazy woman. But I believe I'm 90% done with that theory. I'm looking into the Overlook is an Asylum theory, but I'm 40% in, few more things to confirm and I'm dreading to watch One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. I saw the movie years ago and hated it. And I'm also working on the Wendigo/Cannibalism Theory (this might be an un-tankard video)
@@theobjectofart I'm open for talks on Cuckoo's Nest... The issues that I had with Cuckoo's Nest - this is not even the best movie (based on my opinion) about inmates in the asylum. And something about the movie reminds me of Cool Hand Luke and that means I'll have to rewatch Cool Hand Luke (this was my Grandmother's favorite movie)
I fail to understand why keeping the scene with Ullman at the end confirms the "Wendy Theory"sorry,I didn't get your explanation very well,the sound of this vid was a little lousy,if I'm honest,secondly are you aware that Navarro has released part 2 to his infamous theory,it's not as long,but nevertheless,it's worth the watch.
Thanks. Sorry I had a different microphone at the time. How the deleted ending confirms the Wendy Theory (or any theory that suggests Wendy is hallucinating). According to the script, Ullman said they searched the place and found nothing out of the ordinary. Assumptions are: No dead Hallorann, no chopped up doors, and no dead Jack... The scene suggests it was in Wendy imagination. As for Navarro part 2, yeah saw it, but my video was made many months before his video. I'm currently focused on the Overlook is an Asylum theory.
I am with you, man. After being exposed to the Wendy theory, I am in. 2 things got me. Navarro pointed out Jack's look of utter confusion when Wendy hallucinated that he ripped out the paper and as she is walking away, the paper is in the typewriter and Jack looks like he is saying to himself here we go again. Wendy is a schizophrenic. Straight up hallucinates people and conversations. You have a great theory in the fact that the doctor was never there. She wasn't. Wendy is a schizophrenic. Tony talks to Wendy because Tony is Danny's self defense mechanism for dealing with a schizophrenic mother. The second thing that helped convince me, I was watching with my wife after jumping down the rabbit hole, we were very creeped out when Danny walks in the lobby and Wendy hysterically starts screaming at Jack that he did this. Jack looks like wtf is all of this. Danny was afraid of his mother, his schizophrenic child abusing mother. His look was chilling. He looked at her like how in the world could you do this and then blame Jack/dad. In addition to all of navarro's observations, all of your observations and also The Object of Art's observations.....I am sold. Just one freaking thing though...that last deleted scene in which Kubrick had cut in NYC and LA, that has me stumped. God bless you and have a wonderful day!
If this Wendy theory has any validity, Kubrick was a mad genius. Think about it, cinema-wise it is the ultimate mindbender. If it was his intention that Wendy is the crazy one, man oh man....bravo. Greatest movie prank of all time. SOMEONE HAS TO KNOW. Rob Navarro, oh yeah I will tell more in depth in part 2. What an asshole. Unless you are Rob Navarro? Anything is possible. It could be me. It could be Rob Ager but I think he is just pissed off because he didn't see it right in front of his eyes. Also, I will be watching Images from 1972 sometime very, very soon. Also, yeah I saw a bit of that human pile of excrement "dr. phil" with Shelley Duvall, Rob Navarro, Phil was a jerk. Deserved a real beatdown for treating her that way. Nonetheless God bless and enjoy the day!
Thanks. I think the deleted scene exposed too much of the movie and it would be best to never have it... On the other hand, If Stanley Kubrick did the backward/foreword filming (as seen in Eye Scream) he could had removed the scene so nobody could know the actual overlay. I'm not 100% on the backward/foreword screening but I know there are people do believe it.
@@CoreyW6292 Images blows my mind on how some of the senses are similar to the Shining (even the ending - I will not talk about - is similar to the Shining) Wait till I expose the Overlook is an Asylum theory... I'm going to do it very soon (I had so much fun working on this video and I'm planning in getting a new microphone) this theory I've been playing with Miss M. Yes Stanley Kubrick is a mad genius and the reason why I tried to explain some of the background stuff because I wanted to put in to context that the Wendy Theory (or such) could be made with intent.
@@tankardoftales4645 I thought the backward/forward was brilliant with Abbey Road...really was happy with it but then I saw the script/pictures/testimonies about the last deleted scene of roughly 3 minutes and that three minutes just destroys that however what the heck do I know. I do appreciate the recommendation of the shining insights cause it was just really cool. And you are absolutely right. No maze. No maze. Just wtf? I am in with the wendy theory. Convinced that Kubrick wanted to make his big scary movie but in reality it might have just been Wendy's schizophrenia exacerbated by the isolation and she very well could have been the abuser, I believe it is very possible now.
Btw, I’ve watch a number of Ager’s things and he’s got some excellent research. But I do find he comes across as rather close minded to any other conclusions than what he’s come to. The Danny abuse thing, while possibly true (or partially true), seems a little over stretched by him. But he’s definitely a smart guy, though he doesn’t seem to particularly enjoy being disagreed with lol. Also I used to get a little frustrated when I’d be doing a search on the Shining or SK and the first twenty things would be from him, like he’s the “appointed spokesman” for all things Kubrick! The most compelling things I’ve seen about the “depths of Kubrick” come from other places but he’s not to be discounted (I’m speaking of myself here😊)
@@theobjectofart The missing windows, the Gold Room sign changes, the lights on the tables are on when Jack enters the room, the moving chairs (shown by you - lol) the difference between different scenes, and the size... On the ceiling between the chandlers is a square - heating vents! [I totally agree with you on the heating vents] lol
The issue I have with the “Wendy theory” is that there seems to be just too many assumptions one has to make that are really not in the film and it is actually contradicted by many aspects of the film. In other words it’s a form of “forced logic” I feel (of course I could be wrong). But to me the theory can “work” if one takes a preconceived notion of the hidden meaning of the film and then pulls together things that supposedly point to it. It’s really lacking in any consistent logic derived from the film itself but that’s just my opinion. But I do think there is much more to the film than meets the eye and we are meant to dig much deeper. I just don’t want to impose my own ideas onto it without actual evidence in the film, though I do understand this desire or tendency because of said mystery!You know there is more to it than meets the eye so it’s easy to be led down any number of rabbit holes (and some of those are likely intended by Kubrick). But I think SK also may use red herrings as well so it’s not simple. Also I think there is not just ONE theme hidden, but many.
I totally understand, I feel the same with the Jack is writing a novel theory. As being "forced logic." The Wendy Theory started my path down the rabbit hole. And I thought if this was all in Wendy's head then there must be stuff happening in the apartment. Which there is, we have books, chairs moving between cuts, stickers missing and an upsidedown oven face in the background. Does this all mean this is happening in Wendy's head - not really. But it does mean that the viewer is open to interpretation and that person will not be wrong. My gut feeling, I do believe Vivan Kubrick was behind making the Wendy Theory video and the creation was to target Dr. Sleep. It was assumed that Dr. Sleep is going to bookend the Shining, and Kubrick's family has an issue with Stephen King, especially when King keeps shitting on the Shining. If you watch the Shining and noticed the "continuity differences" just fill in your own blanks. (As of last week, because I'm on Lolita - I'm not calling them continuity errors but I'm calling them continuity differences).
@@tankardoftales4645 yes true there are those continuity issues which are fascinating. I just don’t know why that implies specifically that they are in Wendy’s head although I know the one with her and Jack at the typewriter. Another interesting one is a scene of Jack is back sitting and typing (fire gently burning, which is right before the landing of the plane with Halloran. This scene takes place in the sequence of the film AFTER Jack has started going loony, has met Lloyd, the 237 babe etc. why all of a sudden is he back to typing? He’s supposed to be vandalizing the snowcat etc! Unless it’s a scene interpreting the rest of the film, ie that he is the “author” of the film we’re watching. Even the “all work..” pages could be a chapter of his novel. A novel about a man going crazy, with or without ghosts lol. Additional support is the scrapbook that is on his table though nothing more is said about it in the film (Houthi it’s discussed a lot in the King novel. That makes some sense because Jack is an author who intends to write a book etc. and there is a logical sequence in the story to suggest it. I’m not certain that this was in view by SK correct but there are substantive reasons to believe it.
@@tankardoftales4645 interesting to think Vivian Kubrick is responsible for this theory. Why do you think that? You often sy “I have reason to believe…” and then make some statement that deserves scrutiny. It’s your channel so of course you can say anything you like but I’m always curious WHAT is that reason you have for stating such things. What exactly did Vivian Kubrick say about the Wendy theory that makes you believe that? I assume you heard her speaking about the Shining in recent years? I’ve not been able to find much from her aside from the early documentary.
Btw, please don’t feel attacked by my dialogue with you. I share your interest and fascination with all this stuff and there are not any easy answers so it’s fun to consider what may have been in this unique director’s mind!
You said something that interested me. That Jack speaking to Lloyd (whether ghost or in his head) was actually in Wendy’s head. I know this is part of that theory but what exactly suggests that this was in her head? I just don’t see how the film is suggesting this. She then shows up and tells Jack abt the crazy woman etc. so was this in her head too? Its all a bit obscure for my taste lol. Is there a simple concise way for you to support that the film is really all her “narration.” What is it that convinces you if this?
Agree it's a little obscure, but's that the fun part. I currently seeing everything happening in Wendy's head. And that's because I've identified the story being told by an Unreliable Narrator. I'm not really done with the Shining project, my hunch is The Overlook hotel is an Asylum, and Wendy never left the Asylum. But there is no way I can prove it without a shadow of doubt so it's just my interpretation for the Shining. I posted a few videos leading up to this, I have a few other movies that I need to talk about.
@@tankardoftales4645 yes but isn’t that just circular reasoning? Of course it’s just a movie and it’s perfectly fine to look at it in any way one wishes and that is part of the fun. At the same time, it seems like your logic is as follows: The story is a case of the unreliable narrator; That unreliable narrator is Wendy; therefore the entire story is going on inside Wendy’s head and the Overlook is an asylum. You do realize that isn’t really an argument but just a preconceived notion. Maybe correct, maybe not but I’m still curious what your basis is for thinking it. I know it’s a fairly popular theory but I e never heard anyone give a cogent, cohesive logical basis of reasoning for it. I am open to any such theories if I find some logical reason for it and of course it’s just a movie so anyone has the right to any opinion they want. I’m just trying to understand why you think it lol. What is it in the film that makes you think Kubrick is making Wendy a narrator, that she’s insane etc? It just seems like an entirely specious theory, no offense.
@@victoryak86 These are based on conclusions that I came up while digging into the rabbit hole, a good number of references I came across are from psychological drama and thrillers, I just show two movies. there are many others to list. And lets be honest there is no way I can lay it out without jumping from one movie to another. But that ok, because the way how the movie is setup you can come of with your own ideas too. I'm not trying to gate keep my ideas, especially with the Shining. On the other hand, I'm working with Lolita, and the movie is also being told by an unreliable narrator, but the book is also told by an unreliable narrator too. So it's very easy for me to say if you read Lolita and you can identify the continuity differences then you'll notice the movie follows the book. Which is nice, although while reading the book, I do see a much different story, I see Humbert a serial rapist and murder, although asking people that read the book they seem to believe I'm taking the book too far, but I see this because I saw the movie - odd. I'm hoping to make a video on the Foreword and Chapter one from the book. But it might take another week or so.
@@victoryak86 I'm going to post you a link, this is from Rumble. I cannot post the link on this comment because you won't get an notification. I took the intro from the Shining and added the Intro of The Wall... Please enjoy.
11:30 Agar accused you of being Rob Navarro. Ahahahaha. Wait a minute, now that I think of it, you could be...Ahahahaha. You have one of the strangest channels I ever saw.
Thanks. I was upset with Rob Agar because I expected him to at least analyze the context of the video. And he thought I was Rob Navarro because he thought I knew more about the video, but I realized that Rob Navarro knew more about the movie than most people because Rob Navarro was somebody working or knew somebody that worked on the Shining. Vivian Kubrick and Ryan Obermeyer (Shelley Duvall's friend after the Dr Phil show) are my suspects.
@@tankardoftales4645 I went to the Debunked video and found the comment where Agar said he thought you were Navarro and why. There were a few comments back and forth between you two. I also thought Agar sort of blew off the Wendy Theory without debunking it. Many did. Why would you suspect Vivian Kubrick? And why would a friend of Duvall's start the Wendy Theory?
💎Just saw this post. I’ll catch up with it with my coffee in the morning!💎
Thanks... I think it's time for me to start exposing Rob Navarro... lol
This is pretty awesome!!! Will comment more later. But I've got some hot tea for you. Did some snooping last night and I found an article that'll knock your socks off. I'll put the link in the Twitter DM.
Thanks.
This is gonna be good......🍿🍿🍿The Wendy Theory is a mind bender, the more you think you know the shining, the more the cog dis !!!
People still don't understand that the movie isn't really an adaptation.
And that's why I'm going thru a +20-minute monolog explaining the backstory, the drama, the motivations and all that fun stuff. Once they understand THAT part of the story it's easy to see why the Shining was made the way it was... :)
I listened to first 20 minutes. All I can do right now, I'll listen to the rest later when I get a chance. Want to make a few comments on what I've heard so far. 1st---I think the deleted final scene was cut for two reasons a) it really does give too much away. I think Kubrick's story is still intact, indeed, maybe MORE intact without that final scene, though it does become a bit blurred and amorphous. And b) I believe the stories told about how test runs showed the impact on the audience being greater without that final scene. Stanley wanted the most successful movie commercially too, especially after Barry Lyndon being panned. (I love BL, btw.)
2nd--About Jack thinking he was Hemingway. I haven't read the book, so I don't know how that flowed. But in Kubrick's Shining, I feel that both Jack and Wendy are delusional. Its two separate delusions that begin to clash with each other. And I think Hotel Management (both in the spiritual and physical realm) pit them against each other. Yes, I am one who believes there is a supernatural element to the story, but I also believe there is a mental illness element too. And both elements fuse together over this one question: Who will sacrifice who? I think in the end, the Hotel Management preferred to have Danny alive for his "talents." But a sacrifice still had to be made, so management sacrificed Jack. When Wendy drives away in the Snow Cat, you can see the "double cross" as they pass by. It's to the right of them. Look into the symbolism of the "double cross" if you're not familiar. That's some deep ssh1tt Stanley was stirring with that clue.
3rd-- There is no evidence it didn't snow at all until a month later, just that THE STORM came a month later. Its normal for there to be minor flurries until "the big one" comes. And as far as limited time the hotel is in operation each year---the money issue for the hotel is not an "issue" at all IMHO. The Hotel is not run to make a profit. Rather, the Hotel is a perverted playground and sacrificial alter for all "the best people." Both the living and the dead "best people."
These are just my theories and opinions. I don't claim to be "right." The movie can and will be studied until Kingdom Come without everything being definitively answered by consensus. (That's part of its charm, of course.) I will enjoy your video and ideas anyway. Just need more time to listen to the rest. It is a fascinating subject. Take care!
I do agree the ending was cut because it gave away too much. Although Ms M (in one of her videos) talked about the deleted ending. I was wondering about the [...] in Ullmans conversation - So I believe there was more to the ending than what was shown in the 2 pages that she found. I do think the ending implies no ghosts and could be in Wendy head. And I think that would kill the movie.
I did wonder if the ending could imply that Wendy, Jack and Danny were in that car accident. The scene that Hallorann passed with the Volkswagen and the Truck. But Ullman does say "he searched the Overlook" which is also odd... Who is "he"?
The Hemingway reference came from me. In the book (I read part of the book). Jack happens to sell a short story to a magazine, then he gets drunk. Selling a short story is not saying you're a successful writer to the point where you can just write and create fame or destroy lives. I know this thinking feed off the Pen is mightier than the sword - but I think this meaning was more about the ability to rewrite history. Jack was not a famous writer. Jack was out of work, and he need a job. I think Stanley Kubrick would have picked up on this too. And if Stanley Kubrick asked the questions that crossed my mind to Stephen King (and if King was on drugs and acting like a narcissist - he would of took the questions as an insult). According to Diane Johnson, she was surprised to find out how well-read Stanley Kubrick was. She said they would talk on the phone for hours about books.
The snow - In the book before the snow Jack, Wendy and Danny were able to drive off the Overlook to the neighboring town (which makes no sense why the Overlook was being closed).
In the movie, yeah it's hard to tell when it snowed in the movie. The title card says "A Month Later" and that could mean 30 days from now or the just the Next month. We believe the Torrances showed up on October 31st (according to the interview) and November 1st is the next month... That's why I feel everything is happening in November - not December...
True about the Hotel and Ms .M thinks the Hotel was something shady like a Brothel...
On the other hand, I think the Overlook Hotel is an Asylum. This wouldn't be based on the Wendy Theory... but it still works with the No Ghosts theory as well as hallucinations - and the best people could be crazy people locked up... I do need to make a video on this one too... but I'm hoping to buy a better microphone, I'm not too fond with the one I have.
Thanks for watching the video so far, don't rush into it. I'm not expecting a lot of views on this video. I just wanted to say stuff and start a conversation.
@@tankardoftales4645 An Asylum? lol. I had never thought of that. I will consider that. At this point, I see it as a "party asylum" for "all the best people" and a forced asylum and sacrificial alter for the caretakers and all the other "help." Boy this movie really can inspire many different interpretations. Thanks for your reply. I, like you, am still rolling around many ideas about this movie. I could change my opinion at any time, so nothing set in stone. Take care!
@@davegentry-pu9xm Believe it or not - hedge mazes (although not as tall in the Overlook) was used in Asylums for therapy. Yeah I need to make a video on the Asylum theory...
@@tankardoftales4645 That is fascinating. Bringing us back to Cuckoo's Nest. It certainly has become "medication time" around the Overlook.
@@davegentry-pu9xm and 3 Women (Shelley Duvall movie) - In that movie she plays a nurse and there is painting of a Hedge Maze... You should watch 3 Women (This is the movie that made Kubrick cast Shelley Duvall). I would question Nurse (The story is about Multiple Personalities)
"Yes, honey, there is a ghost in Room 237. And she was so sexy I tried to bed her down until she began to morph into your cackling dead mother while her rotting body oozed between my fingers." If this did actually happen, this is not a conversation Jack would have with anyone, let alone his mentally disturbed, horror junkie wife. If this did happen, it is something he was likely not to admit to himself either because, let's face it---this is an incredibly phukked up situation. I agree that Wendy is "crazy" and is abusive to Danny. I think that is undeniable based on the clues Kubrick gave. But I think Kubrick also gave clues that there ARE supernatural forces at work too. And those supernatural forces are "management." Management "psychically" interacts and directs its higher up physical employees like Ullman and Halloran. (Think of Halloran in his Miami hotel room.) And Management "psychically" messes with the heads of Jack, Wendy, and Danny, pitting them all against each other. Who will be sacrificed? Who will be "redrummed?" Will the whole family go down, like Delbert Grady was ordered to do, or should one or more of Jack's family be preserved? Management is "all the best people"---whether they be living or dead. Reincarnation has been a very popular belief among "all the best people" long before the idea became popularized in the West by pop culture icons like the Beatles in the 1960s. That's what a lot of this movie is about--the "best people's" divine right of king's principle, and their view of all the "little people" like the Torrances. They were ALWAYS the caretakers and always will be. While management continues its "Great party, isn't it?" attitude for eternity. Jack is the "care taker" forever while management remains "care-LESS" forever. This theme would have been obscured if that final scene had not been cut in lieu of the final scene we have now. Though, if the original final scene had been left in, more of the details of how this works on the physical plain would have been more readily apparent.
Of course, again. Just my opinion. Sharing it here with you as you've shared yours with us. I just discovered Miss M's channel through yours, and am very pleased to listen to you both, whether we agree on everything or not. Ciao!
Thanks and so correct... There is no way Jack could explain the women to Wendy. And to be honest, in that scene the ghost women she seemed to reminds me of the Greek Myth of the Siren Call.
I'm always open for new opinions, ideas and suggestions too... Even if it doesn't align with me. And super thanks... Also you'll enjoy Miss M's work :)
Yet another brilliant layer of analysis by another brilliant analyst, which both of you obviously ARE, in my opinion! LLOVE IT, and love this channel, gentlemen! 😊💚🙏👍
@@jeanlloydbradberry9099 Thanks. I hope you check out The Object of Art channel too. she does a deeper analysis into the Shining and a few other movies as well as art in general.
@@tankardoftales4645 Sir, I will! Thank you for inspiring, and educating me!😊🙏👍
Also, I agree the Maze does not exist physically. But the Maze was created in the mental realm by Management. Wendy was first "infected" by the Maze through multitudinous horror novels, by media, which exacerbated her own mental illness. And Stanley was pointing the finger at SK himself, like Miss M has suggested, who probably didn't write all his own books but was a kind of "storefront" for the many "ghost"-writers @ Management's command. This is really deep shh1tt man, if I'm right. And circular in its reasoning and presentation by Kubrick. Lots of great stuff to think about.
Some people think the Overlook created the Hege Maze... As for Wendy, Jack tells us she loves horror and I believe she is reading a horror novel in the book - but the only book we see Wendy reading is Catcher in the Rye (it's not a horror book).. On the other hand, when I originally saw the Shining I thought all those books were Jack's because he need books to research his writing, then later it seems that these books could be Wendys because she's home most of the time... but what happens to all those books, we don't see them in the Overlook.
@@tankardoftales4645 Well, I'm pretty sure those books were the ONLY contents inside that impossible pile of luggage in the Overlook lobby!!! lol. But seriously, I always assumed the books were Wendy's because of Jack's comment that she was into horror and ghost stories. As far as CITRye goes, I see that as a kind of book "management" likes to plant on people to completely discredit them. I can think of a few cases in real life where that happened.
@@davegentry-pu9xm I would think that too... The problem about the Catcher in the Rye - the mind control conspiracy theory seemed to come from after the murder of John Lennon and the attempted murder of Reagan. That's after the release of The Shining.
@@tankardoftales4645 True. But there is always the possibility that Kubrick had inside info on this. In the "conspiracy world" there was not much talk of EWS parties and sacrifice before EWS was released in 99. I'm about your age, so I can remember quite clearly the progression down through the years of this kind thing being talked about. Its just something to consider. Kubrick knew ALOT that the general public didn't.
@@davegentry-pu9xm Agree and you are so right... But 30 years ago, we didn't have the internet. Although, I think if we were sitting in the backyard (with a few others) we would be spinning some wild stuff :)
I think once I get a few videos covered on the Shining I'll be moving to Full Metal Jack and Eyes Wide Shut. I do believe all 3 movies are part of a trilogy.
What you said about the Colorado Lounge scene is EXTREMELY intriguing. I didn't know they used a dummy for the Danny character when Wendy is holding him and saying "You did this to him. You son of a bitch!" But it makes perfect sense. He looks very stiff and motionless. I don't know how I feel about the Danny gets murdered by Wendy theory. I have to think about that for a while.
Lol. Im not to fond of the idea that Wendy molesting Danny and killing him too. But thats how I'm seeing this based on the clues and putting them into context that Wendy is a crazy woman.
But I believe I'm 90% done with that theory.
I'm looking into the Overlook is an Asylum theory, but I'm 40% in, few more things to confirm and I'm dreading to watch One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. I saw the movie years ago and hated it.
And I'm also working on the Wendigo/Cannibalism Theory (this might be an un-tankard video)
@@tankardoftales4645 We need to talk about Cuckoo's Nest. I have a theory about that. I also found an article that made me think about a lot of stuff.
@@theobjectofart I'm open for talks on Cuckoo's Nest... The issues that I had with Cuckoo's Nest - this is not even the best movie (based on my opinion) about inmates in the asylum. And something about the movie reminds me of Cool Hand Luke and that means I'll have to rewatch Cool Hand Luke (this was my Grandmother's favorite movie)
I fail to understand why keeping the scene with Ullman at the end confirms the "Wendy Theory"sorry,I didn't get your explanation very well,the sound of this vid was a little lousy,if I'm honest,secondly are you aware that Navarro has released part 2 to his infamous theory,it's not as long,but nevertheless,it's worth the watch.
Thanks. Sorry I had a different microphone at the time.
How the deleted ending confirms the Wendy Theory (or any theory that suggests Wendy is hallucinating). According to the script, Ullman said they searched the place and found nothing out of the ordinary.
Assumptions are: No dead Hallorann, no chopped up doors, and no dead Jack...
The scene suggests it was in Wendy imagination.
As for Navarro part 2, yeah saw it, but my video was made many months before his video.
I'm currently focused on the Overlook is an Asylum theory.
I am with you, man.
After being exposed to the Wendy theory, I am in.
2 things got me.
Navarro pointed out Jack's look of utter confusion when Wendy hallucinated that he ripped out the paper and as she is walking away, the paper is in the typewriter and Jack looks like he is saying to himself here we go again.
Wendy is a schizophrenic.
Straight up hallucinates people and conversations.
You have a great theory in the fact that the doctor was never there. She wasn't. Wendy is a schizophrenic. Tony talks to Wendy because Tony is Danny's self defense mechanism for dealing with a schizophrenic mother.
The second thing that helped convince me, I was watching with my wife after jumping down the rabbit hole, we were very creeped out when Danny walks in the lobby and Wendy hysterically starts screaming at Jack that he did this. Jack looks like wtf is all of this. Danny was afraid of his mother, his schizophrenic child abusing mother. His look was chilling. He looked at her like how in the world could you do this and then blame Jack/dad.
In addition to all of navarro's observations, all of your observations and also The Object of Art's observations.....I am sold.
Just one freaking thing though...that last deleted scene in which Kubrick had cut in NYC and LA, that has me stumped.
God bless you and have a wonderful day!
If this Wendy theory has any validity, Kubrick was a mad genius.
Think about it, cinema-wise it is the ultimate mindbender.
If it was his intention that Wendy is the crazy one, man oh man....bravo. Greatest movie prank of all time. SOMEONE HAS TO KNOW.
Rob Navarro, oh yeah I will tell more in depth in part 2.
What an asshole. Unless you are Rob Navarro? Anything is possible. It could be me. It could be Rob Ager but I think he is just pissed off because he didn't see it right in front of his eyes.
Also, I will be watching Images from 1972 sometime very, very soon.
Also, yeah I saw a bit of that human pile of excrement "dr. phil" with Shelley Duvall, Rob Navarro, Phil was a jerk. Deserved a real beatdown for treating her that way.
Nonetheless
God bless and enjoy the day!
Thanks. I think the deleted scene exposed too much of the movie and it would be best to never have it... On the other hand, If Stanley Kubrick did the backward/foreword filming (as seen in Eye Scream) he could had removed the scene so nobody could know the actual overlay. I'm not 100% on the backward/foreword screening but I know there are people do believe it.
@@CoreyW6292 Images blows my mind on how some of the senses are similar to the Shining (even the ending - I will not talk about - is similar to the Shining)
Wait till I expose the Overlook is an Asylum theory... I'm going to do it very soon (I had so much fun working on this video and I'm planning in getting a new microphone) this theory I've been playing with Miss M.
Yes Stanley Kubrick is a mad genius and the reason why I tried to explain some of the background stuff because I wanted to put in to context that the Wendy Theory (or such) could be made with intent.
@@tankardoftales4645 I thought the backward/forward was brilliant with Abbey Road...really was happy with it but then I saw the script/pictures/testimonies about the last deleted scene of roughly 3 minutes and that three minutes just destroys that however what the heck do I know. I do appreciate the recommendation of the shining insights cause it was just really cool. And you are absolutely right. No maze. No maze. Just wtf? I am in with the wendy theory. Convinced that Kubrick wanted to make his big scary movie but in reality it might have just been Wendy's schizophrenia exacerbated by the isolation and she very well could have been the abuser, I believe it is very possible now.
Sorry, *eye scream**** but the shining insights was great as well. Yes, eye scream was an excellent recommendation.
Btw, I’ve watch a number of Ager’s things and he’s got some excellent research. But I do find he comes across as rather close minded to any other conclusions than what he’s come to. The Danny abuse thing, while possibly true (or partially true), seems a little over stretched by him. But he’s definitely a smart guy, though he doesn’t seem to particularly enjoy being disagreed with lol. Also I used to get a little frustrated when I’d be doing a search on the Shining or SK and the first twenty things would be from him, like he’s the “appointed spokesman” for all things Kubrick! The most compelling things I’ve seen about the “depths of Kubrick” come from other places but he’s not to be discounted (I’m speaking of myself here😊)
And because Rob Ager's Danny Abuse theory, I think Rob Navarro tried to troll the account.
Wait a minute. The Gold Room doesn't exist??? Mind blown. More comments later.
If your following the story based on the Wendy Theory...
Maybe I need to make a video and talk about the Gold Room and why I don't think the room exist... LOL
@@tankardoftales4645 Yeah, I totally missed that. But the complete lack of windows might mean just that.
@@theobjectofart The missing windows, the Gold Room sign changes, the lights on the tables are on when Jack enters the room, the moving chairs (shown by you - lol) the difference between different scenes, and the size... On the ceiling between the chandlers is a square - heating vents! [I totally agree with you on the heating vents] lol
The issue I have with the “Wendy theory” is that there seems to be just too many assumptions one has to make that are really not in the film and it is actually contradicted by many aspects of the film. In other words it’s a form of “forced logic” I feel (of course I could be wrong). But to me the theory can “work” if one takes a preconceived notion of the hidden meaning of the film and then pulls together things that supposedly point to it. It’s really lacking in any consistent logic derived from the film itself but that’s just my opinion. But I do think there is much more to the film than meets the eye and we are meant to dig much deeper. I just don’t want to impose my own ideas onto it without actual evidence in the film, though I do understand this desire or tendency because of said mystery!You know there is more to it than meets the eye so it’s easy to be led down any number of rabbit holes (and some of those are likely intended by Kubrick). But I think SK also may use red herrings as well so it’s not simple. Also I think there is not just ONE theme hidden, but many.
I totally understand, I feel the same with the Jack is writing a novel theory. As being "forced logic." The Wendy Theory started my path down the rabbit hole. And I thought if this was all in Wendy's head then there must be stuff happening in the apartment. Which there is, we have books, chairs moving between cuts, stickers missing and an upsidedown oven face in the background. Does this all mean this is happening in Wendy's head - not really. But it does mean that the viewer is open to interpretation and that person will not be wrong.
My gut feeling, I do believe Vivan Kubrick was behind making the Wendy Theory video and the creation was to target Dr. Sleep. It was assumed that Dr. Sleep is going to bookend the Shining, and Kubrick's family has an issue with Stephen King, especially when King keeps shitting on the Shining.
If you watch the Shining and noticed the "continuity differences" just fill in your own blanks. (As of last week, because I'm on Lolita - I'm not calling them continuity errors but I'm calling them continuity differences).
@@tankardoftales4645 yes true there are those continuity issues which are fascinating. I just don’t know why that implies specifically that they are in Wendy’s head although I know the one with her and Jack at the typewriter. Another interesting one is a scene of Jack is back sitting and typing (fire gently burning, which is right before the landing of the plane with Halloran. This scene takes place in the sequence of the film AFTER Jack has started going loony, has met Lloyd, the 237 babe etc. why all of a sudden is he back to typing? He’s supposed to be vandalizing the snowcat etc! Unless it’s a scene interpreting the rest of the film, ie that he is the “author” of the film we’re watching. Even the “all work..” pages could be a chapter of his novel. A novel about a man going crazy, with or without ghosts lol. Additional support is the scrapbook that is on his table though nothing more is said about it in the film (Houthi it’s discussed a lot in the King novel. That makes some sense because Jack is an author who intends to write a book etc. and there is a logical sequence in the story to suggest it. I’m not certain that this was in view by SK correct but there are substantive reasons to believe it.
@@tankardoftales4645 interesting to think Vivian Kubrick is responsible for this theory. Why do you think that? You often sy “I have reason to believe…” and then make some statement that deserves scrutiny. It’s your channel so of course you can say anything you like but I’m always curious WHAT is that reason you have for stating such things. What exactly did Vivian Kubrick say about the Wendy theory that makes you believe that? I assume you heard her speaking about the Shining in recent years? I’ve not been able to find much from her aside from the early documentary.
Btw, please don’t feel attacked by my dialogue with you. I share your interest and fascination with all this stuff and there are not any easy answers so it’s fun to consider what may have been in this unique director’s mind!
@@victoryak86 I don't feel attacked and I welcome this type of discussion.
You said something that interested me. That Jack speaking to Lloyd (whether ghost or in his head) was actually in Wendy’s head. I know this is part of that theory but what exactly suggests that this was in her head? I just don’t see how the film is suggesting this. She then shows up and tells Jack abt the crazy woman etc. so was this in her head too? Its all a bit obscure for my taste lol. Is there a simple concise way for you to support that the film is really all her “narration.” What is it that convinces you if this?
Agree it's a little obscure, but's that the fun part. I currently seeing everything happening in Wendy's head. And that's because I've identified the story being told by an Unreliable Narrator.
I'm not really done with the Shining project, my hunch is The Overlook hotel is an Asylum, and Wendy never left the Asylum. But there is no way I can prove it without a shadow of doubt so it's just my interpretation for the Shining. I posted a few videos leading up to this, I have a few other movies that I need to talk about.
@@tankardoftales4645 yes but isn’t that just circular reasoning? Of course it’s just a movie and it’s perfectly fine to look at it in any way one wishes and that is part of the fun. At the same time, it seems like your logic is as follows: The story is a case of the unreliable narrator; That unreliable narrator is Wendy; therefore the entire story is going on inside Wendy’s head and the Overlook is an asylum. You do realize that isn’t really an argument but just a preconceived notion. Maybe correct, maybe not but I’m still curious what your basis is for thinking it. I know it’s a fairly popular theory but I e never heard anyone give a cogent, cohesive logical basis of reasoning for it. I am open to any such theories if I find some logical reason for it and of course it’s just a movie so anyone has the right to any opinion they want. I’m just trying to understand why you think it lol. What is it in the film that makes you think Kubrick is making Wendy a narrator, that she’s insane etc? It just seems like an entirely specious theory, no offense.
@@victoryak86 These are based on conclusions that I came up while digging into the rabbit hole, a good number of references I came across are from psychological drama and thrillers, I just show two movies. there are many others to list. And lets be honest there is no way I can lay it out without jumping from one movie to another. But that ok, because the way how the movie is setup you can come of with your own ideas too. I'm not trying to gate keep my ideas, especially with the Shining.
On the other hand, I'm working with Lolita, and the movie is also being told by an unreliable narrator, but the book is also told by an unreliable narrator too. So it's very easy for me to say if you read Lolita and you can identify the continuity differences then you'll notice the movie follows the book. Which is nice, although while reading the book, I do see a much different story, I see Humbert a serial rapist and murder, although asking people that read the book they seem to believe I'm taking the book too far, but I see this because I saw the movie - odd.
I'm hoping to make a video on the Foreword and Chapter one from the book. But it might take another week or so.
@@victoryak86 I'm going to post you a link, this is from Rumble. I cannot post the link on this comment because you won't get an notification. I took the intro from the Shining and added the Intro of The Wall... Please enjoy.
@@victoryak86 rumble.com/v34qk58-the-shining-and-pink-floyds-the-wall-both-intro..html
11:30 Agar accused you of being Rob Navarro. Ahahahaha. Wait a minute, now that I think of it, you could be...Ahahahaha. You have one of the strangest channels I ever saw.
Ringo was the real talent of the Beatles = something is fishy
@@hermanhale9258 Seems like it, Ringo was doing very well in the 1970's
Thanks. I was upset with Rob Agar because I expected him to at least analyze the context of the video. And he thought I was Rob Navarro because he thought I knew more about the video, but I realized that Rob Navarro knew more about the movie than most people because Rob Navarro was somebody working or knew somebody that worked on the Shining. Vivian Kubrick and Ryan Obermeyer (Shelley Duvall's friend after the Dr Phil show) are my suspects.
@@tankardoftales4645 I went to the Debunked video and found the comment where Agar said he thought you were Navarro and why. There were a few comments back and forth between you two. I also thought Agar sort of blew off the Wendy Theory without debunking it. Many did. Why would you suspect Vivian Kubrick? And why would a friend of Duvall's start the Wendy Theory?
@@hermanhale9258 You are awesome for doing that :) (I cannot find them)
Anyone told you you actually look a bit like Stephen King?!
lol... no... But I remember looking myself in the mirror to see if I had a unibrow because I saw Company of Wolves...