Have been waiting so long to hear from you again, Naval. Please keep uploading more cause there is no one as clear a thicker as you. My life has been deeply affected by your thinking, and I am a better problem solver now because of you. I just want to keep learning from you while you're still here with us.
just the final talk about locality and nonlocality in quantum mechanics is worth the entire podcast. Anyway, it's worth listening to the whole conversation. Fantastic.
Everything was broken down into layman terms until it got to quantum computers. I think it'd be good to provide a general explanation of those terms being used before continuing. Still an amazing listen so thankyou.
4:40 why humans are so special in the laws of physics 12:00 knowledge and its relationship with wealth 14:10 we always have what it takes to solve our problems. Well intentioned errors, malevolence, destroying the means of error correction, false epistemology/beliefs can always block the way however 25:30 creativity is deeply connected to enjoyment
You stopped at the moment it started getting interesting!!!! I never really thought about it this way that the wave function of 2 electrons is in 6 dimension as the math clearly tells
It 's a great joy to experience that from which party vast amounts of understanding comes, comes nevertheless a place for "each and everyone" of a kind that many of us may claim that there are many suffering from the absence of, where examples may surely be collected at present. There's optimism to collect, no doubt, in seeing that time may not neccessarily become sooner or later an enemy of the working mind, given that there obviously are invironments about that allowes for working minds existing on the premesis of curiosity driving exploration rather then on claims driving self protection to the level of pure impossibility what any calming work of wisdom concerns. Remaining fear, of cause, relates to the kind of working minds that are possessing rights related to what shall fill the human's memories that with fortune shall allow for experienced joy rather then the kind of experienced despair that at worst leaves but one question: What ever is the food eating meaning of this life?
Takeaways: Part 1: The speaker wants to capture the counter-intuitive learnings of David Deutsch's work in a canonical form so that future generations can benefit from them and none of it is lost. They express their admiration for Deutsch's work, especially Beginning of Infinity and Fabric of Reality, which they believe has overturned more central dogmas in base reasoning than almost any other book. The conversation is not for philosophers or physicists but for the average person to introduce them to principles of optimism, sustainability, anthropomorphic delusions, and induction. Deutsch's philosophy is based on good explanations and experimental evidence, forming a self-consistent view of how things work, and it operates at the intersection of epistemology, computation, physics, and evolution. Humans are exceptional and unique in ways that are more important than any other species, as they are the only physical systems that require the understanding of everything to be fully comprehended. Knowledge perpetuates itself in the environment, and it is the thing that over time takes over and changes more and more of the universe, so it must be understood to comprehend the physical universe. The speaker explains that they want to preserve Deutsch's counter-intuitive learnings for future generations and capture them in a canonical form that anyone can understand. They express their admiration for Deutsch's work, especially Beginning of Infinity and Fabric of Reality, which they believe have overturned more central dogmas in base reasoning than almost any other book. The conversation is for the average person and will introduce them to principles of optimism, sustainability, anthropomorphic delusions, and induction. Deutsch's philosophy is based on good explanations and experimental evidence, forming a self-consistent view of how things work, and it operates at the intersection of epistemology, computation, physics, and evolution. Humans are exceptional and unique in ways that are more important than any other species, and they are the only physical systems that require the understanding of everything to be fully comprehended. Finally, the speaker explains that knowledge perpetuates itself in the environment and changes more and more of the universe over time, so it must be understood to comprehend the physical universe. The speaker explains that it is difficult to climb out of the "local minima" mindset and that if too much of the world falls into that mindset, then the human species may stagnate because they would have lost their biggest advantage, which is the ability to make new discoveries. The speaker discusses the misconception that creativity is solely associated with the fine arts and how AI technologies, such as GPT-3, are sometimes considered as evidence that we are on the path to artificial general intelligence (AGI). The speaker highlights the difference between pattern matching and creativity by explaining that good pattern matching does not necessarily indicate AGI. AGI should also be able to form good explanations for new things and exhibit disobedience. The speaker explains that real disobedience in AI means that it creates new knowledge that was not intended and causes it to behave autonomously in a way that the programmer cannot predict or control. The speaker also questions if there has been an attempt to write a program capable of being bored. The speaker concludes by saying that it is more important to consider how a program behaves in reality rather than just defining it. Falsifiability is an essential criterion to evaluate the validity of an explanation in science, and testability must make sense within the context of the explanation and arise from it. Constructive theory is being developed by David Deutsch, Kiara Bruggeman, and other people, and they aim to create a theory that is experimentally testable, but it is not guaranteed to be available at the beginning. Criticizability is a more general concept than testability, and it is essential to make a theory susceptible to criticism rather than immunize it against it. One of the hallmarks of a good explanation is that it often makes narrow and risky predictions, which means it should be precise and unexpected, sticking your neck out, and hard to vary. However, not all good explanations have much reach. Humans are not universal quantum computers, but they are universal computers as far as we know. The kind of machine called a quantum computer relies on distinctively quantum effects such as interference and entanglement, which is different from the computers we use daily.
I concur on the speed of evolutionary reactions. I’ve often pondered the hysteresis in the system. Even in terms of what people Term as “manifestation” we always get what we wish for, but by the time/form it takes arrives, you don’t see it. I also think we live a performance that we don’t know we enact. Answers and solutions arrive to real needs beneath how we behave. Could the increase in people born with severely hindered social ability- think Asperger’s etc. somebody who is very specialised in one respect and useless in another may be a great fit for our true working lives. I work in an office and coordinate for a firm. In truth though, I spend majority time sharing information out to this who need it for thier roles- so I’m an info distributor… so are social skills really needed here despite what society feels is the idea quality of a work based leader. I always say my fav bosses are largely mechanical and noise free. Nice types confuse with their surface level friendly performance which we read as false in an instinctive level.
So glad to see new Naval! I actually picked up David Deutch's The Fabric of Reality a while back when I heard it mentioned on a podcast and the same afternoon went to a thrift store and saw it just sitting there waiting for me. Started reading recently and I really love the way he thinks about things. I disagree with David on some of his childrearing theories. Naval brings up the fact that kids when left to their own whims will push for cheap dopamine more readily than adults because they lack a matured impulse control (some adults lack it too). Some special kids might have been introduced to the right thing at the right time for their personality and brain flavor but that doesn't mean they will inherently stop playing a shitty video game because they like math. Most kids love sweets and carbs and i guarantee that if given interesting STEM stuff/cool toys or unlimited candy and pizza, they're going to end up puking. His arguments feel like they were more true before the age of overabundance, convenience, and smartphones/tablets/game consoles, but those things aren't inconsequential or trivial in the scope and depth to which they have altered the practical application of human psychology on concrete reality that won't be accounted for in a purely classical take on how people are and what they do.
In my experience (as a TCS kid), it was the kids who were most deprived sweets who were all excited about them and wanted a bunch when they could have them, and people like me who didn’t have a limit just thought they were meh fine. Ditto games, TV, etc. Much less likely to use them as escapism when they’re one option among many - especially when the world’s knowledge is at your fingertips and people who share your interests are only a DM away.
I think just like proteins, there are basic building block thoughts like logic, game theory, etc. that once solidified in AI, then it will start to come up with tactics like, disobedience, conversation etc
Absorbing the cannon of all written knowledge and online conversations, it will thread together our inherent biological processes for thought eventually
Disobedience requires AI to be an agent with his own agenda. So far the bare-bones large language models don't have that but it's conceivable that we could add that on top of LLMs, see th-cam.com/video/DfjUgFvHbTs/w-d-xo.html
For pure reason is to mean knowledge that does not come through our senses but is independent of all sense experience, knowledge belonging to us by the inherent nature and structure of the mind.
25:35 David's argument is a bit flawed, because if a child gets bored of one video game, he/ she'll go to the next or look at shorts. There are no dearth of addictive stuff that can make a child glued to the screen
It's supposed to be two distinct things. The term AI is used to describe somewhat intelligent singular actions a computer can perform (such as image or text creation) while AGI is thought to describe an all-feared, hypothetical, sentient being rendered by a computer that can perform and most likely outperform EVERYTHING a human could do and beyond.
This is brilliant, but I don’t think he understands how modern video games are designed with psychiatrists on payroll to cause addiction in kids. They itch the heroin do-loop not the chess do-loop.
You don't need to point to North Korea to see human's being trapped in a local minima without error correction to get them out. For the US (or the UK where I am from) we are stuck with pseudo-democracy where we can only vote for 1 of 2 parties, both which are stagnant in the people or types of people that constitute them (and thus stagnating the set of actions these parties may take).
I like the idea of taking children seriously, but it seems like alot of effort to raise your child in this way, behaving towards them the same way you'd do towards an adult you want to guide. I guess that's the point though, you don't want to kill or hamper their creativity and potential by being an authoritarian jerk of a parent, and being a good parent is loads harder than being a bad one. It's probably more an exercise in excising the irrational ideas out of your own head, in regards to things like letting your teenager have opposite sex boyfriends/girlfriends for sleep overs. Which I know I would probably have a problem with, especially daughters, but I know it's irrational of me to feel that way. I'll try this taking children seriously thing out if I have kids, and it'll definitely be interesting...I'll report back in 25 years lol
"Has anyone programmed an AI to be bored?" yes. For managing exploration in world models within RL. Besides that your criteria for AGI is not a usefull metric. Since it's boolean.
Naval, you have told us a lot about the importance of specific knowledge and I have a serious question in that regard. How can a person know in which things he could be the most natural if he hasn't really tried that many things yet? At what age should you know your "specific" areas and start focusing on them rather than try find something new all the time? I am 19 and start medical school in Finland in a couple months, but think it might be a mistake since the only thing I really want is to be an entrepreneur and a salesperson.
You know that Naval always says that you can’t compete with someone who enjoys what they. You can’t compete with someone who’s willing to work 16 hours/day because they love it vs someone just doing the basic 8 hour/day work ethic. Follow your desires and listen to your gut. Just doing conventional paths lead you to use “prescriptions” for life and happiness
This was such a terrible and foolish take on AI. It is not trying to be human, it's trying to be intelligent in a way defined by its own existence. It is developing a world model, with no motivation at the moment because it is unaware of the structure of its existence inside that world model yet. Further constructs could of course either simulate or reveal that motivation, but if you know anything about how an LLM is shipped to the public, that is neutered through a lack of memory, continuous learning, and coherent long term existence. You both speak so confidently about something you have no technical awareness of. It really drags down the seriousness of your discussion.
This is like ahhha moment for every naval lover...♥️we missed you legend
We missed?
Kid you not.
Naval still alive.
@@yusufmalikul I know you asshole
Yes, please continue this conversation. This is a gem, and an exceptional way of immortalizing Deutsch's work. I would pay to hear more of these.
Naval and David Deutsch on a conversation is something I would listen continuously. I cleaned the bathroom 2 times because of that
Just put my daughter for an afternoon nap and this pops up on my feed. What a wonderful Sunday. Thank you Naval!
Have been waiting so long to hear from you again, Naval. Please keep uploading more cause there is no one as clear a thicker as you. My life has been deeply affected by your thinking, and I am a better problem solver now because of you. I just want to keep learning from you while you're still here with us.
. 0 l
B
M 8
Naval doesn’t do ‘anyhow’ podcast. Great having 2 of the best minds I’d always wanted to converse. Good stuff ❤
This felt like it was just beginning when it ended. Need about 4 more hours of this
It doesn't take malevolence to make mistake, mistake are the natural form of humanity 🥂
just the final talk about locality and nonlocality in quantum mechanics is worth the entire podcast. Anyway, it's worth listening to the whole conversation. Fantastic.
Everything was broken down into layman terms until it got to quantum computers. I think it'd be good to provide a general explanation of those terms being used before continuing. Still an amazing listen so thankyou.
4:40 why humans are so special in the laws of physics
12:00 knowledge and its relationship with wealth
14:10 we always have what it takes to solve our problems. Well intentioned errors, malevolence, destroying the means of error correction, false epistemology/beliefs can always block the way however
25:30 creativity is deeply connected to enjoyment
This is curious, I was just reading his work yesterday because I was rewatching you where you brought it up
Deutsch is Naval's Naval
What wów, seriously!!
WoW
Indeed 👌🏻
Mme Laurence est légitime et sa méthode fonctionne comme par magie Je continue à gagner chaque semaine avec sa nouvelle stratégie.
Je viens du Canada, moi et deux autres de mes amis l'avons essayée immédiatement nous avons témoigné, elle a fait des merveilles 🇨🇦.
Pas de montant exact mais un bénéfice allant de 1200 $ à 5000 $ selon la fluctuation des pièces sur le marché.
Outstanding discussion, thank you Naval & David.
You stopped at the moment it started getting interesting!!!! I never really thought about it this way that the wave function of 2 electrons is in 6 dimension as the math clearly tells
Lex has an episode with cumrun vafa. He explained is very well.
I always search for your videos naval, I'm a big fan of you sir❤
Ahh Naval forgot to turn on the camera again!
😂
It 's a great joy to experience that from which party vast amounts of understanding comes, comes nevertheless a place for "each and everyone" of a kind that many of us may claim that there are many suffering from the absence of, where examples may surely be collected at present. There's optimism to collect, no doubt, in seeing that time may not neccessarily become sooner or later an enemy of the working mind, given that there obviously are invironments about that allowes for working minds existing on the premesis of curiosity driving exploration rather then on claims driving self protection to the level of pure impossibility what any calming work of wisdom concerns. Remaining fear, of cause, relates to the kind of working minds that are possessing rights related to what shall fill the human's memories that with fortune shall allow for experienced joy rather then the kind of experienced despair that at worst leaves but one question: What ever is the food eating meaning of this life?
Tons of wisdom Naval Sir
Wake up babe, Naval just posted a podcast
Fantastic dude, this deserves millions of views. If you understand David's epistemology, it really advantages you in the business world
Takeaways:
Part 1:
The speaker wants to capture the counter-intuitive learnings of David Deutsch's work in a canonical form so that future generations can benefit from them and none of it is lost.
They express their admiration for Deutsch's work, especially Beginning of Infinity and Fabric of Reality, which they believe has overturned more central dogmas in base reasoning than almost any other book.
The conversation is not for philosophers or physicists but for the average person to introduce them to principles of optimism, sustainability, anthropomorphic delusions, and induction.
Deutsch's philosophy is based on good explanations and experimental evidence, forming a self-consistent view of how things work, and it operates at the intersection of epistemology, computation, physics, and evolution.
Humans are exceptional and unique in ways that are more important than any other species, as they are the only physical systems that require the understanding of everything to be fully comprehended.
Knowledge perpetuates itself in the environment, and it is the thing that over time takes over and changes more and more of the universe, so it must be understood to comprehend the physical universe.
The speaker explains that they want to preserve Deutsch's counter-intuitive learnings for future generations and capture them in a canonical form that anyone can understand. They express their admiration for Deutsch's work, especially Beginning of Infinity and Fabric of Reality, which they believe have overturned more central dogmas in base reasoning than almost any other book. The conversation is for the average person and will introduce them to principles of optimism, sustainability, anthropomorphic delusions, and induction. Deutsch's philosophy is based on good explanations and experimental evidence, forming a self-consistent view of how things work, and it operates at the intersection of epistemology, computation, physics, and evolution. Humans are exceptional and unique in ways that are more important than any other species, and they are the only physical systems that require the understanding of everything to be fully comprehended. Finally, the speaker explains that knowledge perpetuates itself in the environment and changes more and more of the universe over time, so it must be understood to comprehend the physical universe.
The speaker explains that it is difficult to climb out of the "local minima" mindset and that if too much of the world falls into that mindset, then the human species may stagnate because they would have lost their biggest advantage, which is the ability to make new discoveries.
The speaker discusses the misconception that creativity is solely associated with the fine arts and how AI technologies, such as GPT-3, are sometimes considered as evidence that we are on the path to artificial general intelligence (AGI).
The speaker highlights the difference between pattern matching and creativity by explaining that good pattern matching does not necessarily indicate AGI. AGI should also be able to form good explanations for new things and exhibit disobedience.
The speaker explains that real disobedience in AI means that it creates new knowledge that was not intended and causes it to behave autonomously in a way that the programmer cannot predict or control.
The speaker also questions if there has been an attempt to write a program capable of being bored.
The speaker concludes by saying that it is more important to consider how a program behaves in reality rather than just defining it.
Falsifiability is an essential criterion to evaluate the validity of an explanation in science, and testability must make sense within the context of the explanation and arise from it.
Constructive theory is being developed by David Deutsch, Kiara Bruggeman, and other people, and they aim to create a theory that is experimentally testable, but it is not guaranteed to be available at the beginning.
Criticizability is a more general concept than testability, and it is essential to make a theory susceptible to criticism rather than immunize it against it.
One of the hallmarks of a good explanation is that it often makes narrow and risky predictions, which means it should be precise and unexpected, sticking your neck out, and hard to vary. However, not all good explanations have much reach.
Humans are not universal quantum computers, but they are universal computers as far as we know. The kind of machine called a quantum computer relies on distinctively quantum effects such as interference and entanglement, which is different from the computers we use daily.
Wow, I've always liked David Deutsche, but he just keeps getting better.
This knowledge will be distributed far and wide and achieve the reach it deserves.
Please be on more podcasts Naval! We miss you.
I concur on the speed of evolutionary reactions. I’ve often pondered the hysteresis in the system. Even in terms of what people Term as “manifestation” we always get what we wish for, but by the time/form it takes arrives, you don’t see it. I also think we live a performance that we don’t know we enact. Answers and solutions arrive to real needs beneath how we behave. Could the increase in people born with severely hindered social ability- think Asperger’s etc. somebody who is very specialised in one respect and useless in another may be a great fit for our true working lives. I work in an office and coordinate for a firm. In truth though, I spend majority time sharing information out to this who need it for thier roles- so I’m an info distributor… so are social skills really needed here despite what society feels is the idea quality of a work based leader. I always say my fav bosses are largely mechanical and noise free. Nice types confuse with their surface level friendly performance which we read as false in an instinctive level.
So glad to see new Naval! I actually picked up David Deutch's The Fabric of Reality a while back when I heard it mentioned on a podcast and the same afternoon went to a thrift store and saw it just sitting there waiting for me. Started reading recently and I really love the way he thinks about things.
I disagree with David on some of his childrearing theories. Naval brings up the fact that kids when left to their own whims will push for cheap dopamine more readily than adults because they lack a matured impulse control (some adults lack it too). Some special kids might have been introduced to the right thing at the right time for their personality and brain flavor but that doesn't mean they will inherently stop playing a shitty video game because they like math. Most kids love sweets and carbs and i guarantee that if given interesting STEM stuff/cool toys or unlimited candy and pizza, they're going to end up puking.
His arguments feel like they were more true before the age of overabundance, convenience, and smartphones/tablets/game consoles, but those things aren't inconsequential or trivial in the scope and depth to which they have altered the practical application of human psychology on concrete reality that won't be accounted for in a purely classical take on how people are and what they do.
Yeah, but note also that David probably didn't cover the subject here in detail anyway :)
Thanks, though
In my experience (as a TCS kid), it was the kids who were most deprived sweets who were all excited about them and wanted a bunch when they could have them, and people like me who didn’t have a limit just thought they were meh fine.
Ditto games, TV, etc. Much less likely to use them as escapism when they’re one option among many - especially when the world’s knowledge is at your fingertips and people who share your interests are only a DM away.
15:00 Not destroying the means of correcting errors as a / the basis of morality ...
"when people don't want to do a things, they want to do other thing " brilliant
good to see you back!
Welcome back. 👋
The Man The Myth The Legend
It is like "naval is being student, real learning from master".
Naval is Back 🔥🔥
Thankyou for this.
Two of my favourites.
We’re back ❤
More clarity in his voice
Fabric of reality is incomprehensible
A treat to see an upload :)
Greetings from Zurich, Happy Sunday wishes
I think just like proteins, there are basic building block thoughts like logic, game theory, etc. that once solidified in AI, then it will start to come up with tactics like, disobedience, conversation etc
Absorbing the cannon of all written knowledge and online conversations, it will thread together our inherent biological processes for thought eventually
Disobedience requires AI to be an agent with his own agenda. So far the bare-bones large language models don't have that but it's conceivable that we could add that on top of LLMs, see th-cam.com/video/DfjUgFvHbTs/w-d-xo.html
Beautiful. Thanks very much Naval for this piece.
Thanks for uploading ❤
Waited a long time for this ❤
4:20 Einstein got gold in Sweeden for photoelectric effect not Relativity
Just a thought, in my mind, AI is a just a tool that will enable the mimetic evolution of humanity ,to go exponential.🤔IMO
read the books of kryon - you will understand a lot of things
Wohooo thx!!! I wated so much new episode! Naval thx you u like Bodhisatwa!
Amazing!! How do you get so many reach on Twitter without following anyone?
For pure reason is to mean knowledge that does not come through our senses but is independent of all sense experience, knowledge belonging to us by the inherent nature and structure of the mind.
Thank you.
25:35 David's argument is a bit flawed, because if a child gets bored of one video game, he/ she'll go to the next or look at shorts. There are no dearth of addictive stuff that can make a child glued to the screen
I love this
Thank you
😃🐼💓⚓🔥
Masterpiece 🔥♥️
Thanks for this!
Why do you prefer the term AGI over AI? Curious to hear if it defines it better in some sense.
It's supposed to be two distinct things. The term AI is used to describe somewhat intelligent singular actions a computer can perform (such as image or text creation) while AGI is thought to describe an all-feared, hypothetical, sentient being rendered by a computer that can perform and most likely outperform EVERYTHING a human could do and beyond.
Thank you!!
Why the abrupt ending? Strange.
This is brilliant, but I don’t think he understands how modern video games are designed with psychiatrists on payroll to cause addiction in kids. They itch the heroin do-loop not the chess do-loop.
8:00 prof deutush on creationism
Babe wake up new Naval dropped
6:30 😮
new naval!
Yes Yes Yes
You don't need to point to North Korea to see human's being trapped in a local minima without error correction to get them out. For the US (or the UK where I am from) we are stuck with pseudo-democracy where we can only vote for 1 of 2 parties, both which are stagnant in the people or types of people that constitute them (and thus stagnating the set of actions these parties may take).
I want to play 4D VR with a rotating watch tool to warp
I wonder Naval's thoughts on race realism
I like the idea of taking children seriously, but it seems like alot of effort to raise your child in this way, behaving towards them the same way you'd do towards an adult you want to guide.
I guess that's the point though, you don't want to kill or hamper their creativity and potential by being an authoritarian jerk of a parent, and being a good parent is loads harder than being a bad one.
It's probably more an exercise in excising the irrational ideas out of your own head, in regards to things like letting your teenager have opposite sex boyfriends/girlfriends for sleep overs. Which I know I would probably have a problem with, especially daughters, but I know it's irrational of me to feel that way.
I'll try this taking children seriously thing out if I have kids, and it'll definitely be interesting...I'll report back in 25 years lol
"Has anyone programmed an AI to be bored?" yes. For managing exploration in world models within RL.
Besides that your criteria for AGI is not a usefull metric. Since it's boolean.
YEEEES
🙌🏽
Hi @naval
I am tiwari too my friend
19:00 Deutsch’s program begged him not to kill it lmao
that podcast is made by ai right?
Ahh
👀
Most important error. Correction, we have.
Freedom of speech!!!!!!
He currently at age 69
Ahha
Naval, you have told us a lot about the importance of specific knowledge and I have a serious question in that regard. How can a person know in which things he could be the most natural if he hasn't really tried that many things yet? At what age should you know your "specific" areas and start focusing on them rather than try find something new all the time? I am 19 and start medical school in Finland in a couple months, but think it might be a mistake since the only thing I really want is to be an entrepreneur and a salesperson.
simple, just start with one thing then keep improving as you go, eventually you won't be asking this question
You know that Naval always says that you can’t compete with someone who enjoys what they. You can’t compete with someone who’s willing to work 16 hours/day because they love it vs someone just doing the basic 8 hour/day work ethic.
Follow your desires and listen to your gut. Just doing conventional paths lead you to use “prescriptions” for life and happiness
Naval is remember they have a TH-cam channel
This was such a terrible and foolish take on AI. It is not trying to be human, it's trying to be intelligent in a way defined by its own existence. It is developing a world model, with no motivation at the moment because it is unaware of the structure of its existence inside that world model yet. Further constructs could of course either simulate or reveal that motivation, but if you know anything about how an LLM is shipped to the public, that is neutered through a lack of memory, continuous learning, and coherent long term existence. You both speak so confidently about something you have no technical awareness of. It really drags down the seriousness of your discussion.
Why does naval’s voice sound like it’s AI generated i swear its one of those chatgpt things
lol
It’s the gate on the mic
Also lot of cuts
Snailians 😂
Jesus can change yr life ❤
lmao had to atop after that intro. Fanboyism ? no thanks.
Everytime naval talks about ai being really naive and humans being very complex, me as a programmer take a biggg sigh
I block unattractive tech men 😆🤑