Tithing was my final break from the church. I could either keep the electricity and gas on and buy groceries or pay tithing, The church refused to help. The spirit whispererd to me that God didn't need my money. I felt at peace and paid my bills.
I find it really hard to believe the church wouldn't help. I know personally of people who the lds church help by paying their bills and providing food for those in your exact situation.
@@jackburton307 The previous month, our branch president paid half our rent and said that would be it A few years before, the church changed the welfare program (I was finance clerk at the time--this was about 1997) and they really discouraged financial assistance. What made this more amazing is that they also refused to give food storehouse assistance. I later learned that we weren't alone. (I also have a hilarious story from a few months before when we had a bishop [stake was reorganized between the two incidents]. I went to him and he said that my ions were out of balance and his wife sold oils that would fix that. Turns out he told everyone that. I don't blame the church for that; he clearly became a nutter and was soon released.)
@@iceguy9723 that sounds about right. Although I think they provide bishop warehouse food more readily than financial assistance. Lol on the ion "essential oils" 🤣
A lot of things that made me stop to believing to the Mormon church including Tithing and the law of Consecration and the low of chastity the word of wisdom and many more, but thithing is really break me and stoo my faith to the church, i seen many time the members were in seriously sickness and church doesn't helps.
I have read the Bible several times and fail to find where the apostles took up collections for building big buildings, temples, shoping centers ,malls ,stock purchases. This sounds more like a corporation not a church
You are conflating things. The shopping center is something that was NOT paid for by tithing. Why do people continue promoting this falsehood? The "malls, stock purchases" are also NOT using tithing funds. You also failed to remember that Ananaias and Sapphira were struck dead for holding back part when they had been askt to give ALL. Perhaps you missed this part? How do people feel they can be right with so much wrong in their statement? Also, Jesus never said that the widow giving her mite shouldn't give her mite. To me, that is actually condoning a tithe. I agree that there may be situations where people should be helped, but people are called to go through difficult times, and through those experiences learn things they couldn't learn any other way. I know a man who lost millions of dollars in his business when he was living in California, and he went into the bishop to ask for help. The bishop looked at him and said, I think you can find a way out of this. The man said, yes, I can find a way out of this, and he did. All I am saying is that people need to first understand the scriptures, because to me, they teach the principle of tithing. People also fail to understand that when you sacrifice for sometihng, in this case the Church, you have a vested interest in its progress; you take it more seriously.
Try the parable of the talents where Jesus commended his servants who doubled the talents given them. The global church is keeping up with the times and doing good at it. What do you think?
Right? When a shoe is restored its still a shoe! The Bible says nothing about this new age "restored" priesthood, temple ceremonies by LD$, or any of what you listed!! False multi level marketing to heaven!
I was a full-time paying member with a head injury. Being disabled because of the head injury, I did not have much, but I did pay my full tides and offerings. For a short time, the bishop was helping me with food. A new bishop came in and he put a stop to that immediately. So they don’t always take care of you. After being told that I continued paying my tithing and going to church for years until having my eyes opened.
This BOILS my blood. My father works for the church and the pay level is BARELY over the poverty line. They aren't taking care of their flock and it makes me so mad there is such secrecy and lack of considered oversight.
The feels! I paid thousands in 10% over the years. Not to mention fast tithes, kids on missions etc. Always held a temple card and went. I was in a serious car accident and had I saved that LD$ money, I would be okay. mormons have not helped at all here in UTAH now! Disability in USA pays $600. I had my LD$ name & number removed.
@@PhyreReighnYou say you had paid tithing and other things. The Lord made a promise in Malachi 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” Take your grievance to the Lord dear Brother, and ask him humbly why. I know the Lord always keeps his word. From my experience on paying tithing for 48 years, I received blessings beyond my expectations, no room enough to receive them. Nevertheless, I had challenges and trials in life, dear Brother, but I remained faithful in the Church, keeping in mind what the Lord said in D&C 136:31, “My people must be tried in all things, that they may be prepared to receive the glory that I have for them, even the glory of Zion; and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom.”
What work does your father do in the church? All ecclesiastical workers in the church including bishops, stake presidents, Sunday school presidents and teachers, Youth leaders, etc, render part time service on voluntary basis and do not receive any pay. The Church hires professionals (members or not) such as engineers, architects, accountants, contractors, etc, as needed, to render professional services full-time for which they are paid handsomely.
Being a divorced single Male and requesting help from the church - I have never been so humiliated in my life by how my Salt Lake City branch president handled my situation. It was so demoralizing. So to see these ass hats say pay your tithing over food and then just ask your bishop for help - they have no idea of what the reality is. This branch president acted as though the money was coming from his own pocket. The whole experience was traumatic.
Yes they're not Perfect it happened to me also.sometimes they think you are just being lazy you don't want to work for yourself because you know the church as got a lot of money they want you to explain more of why you are struggling and i found that they focus too much on protocols that need to be followed first for them to help you sometimes they fail to discern and follow the spirit because sometimes they don't even help you because they're also members who take advantage of that.
You must pay to play. Just pay, obey, and stay out of the way. They talk about how "worldly" others are, but their primary focus is to FOLLOW THE PROFIT.
I want to comment on the Malachi verse so often cherry-picked by The Brethren™. 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. - Malachi 3:8-9 We are told the people have robbed God. But is that what's being said here? Malachi is a single revelation from beginning to end. To whom is it written? After a bit of an into, Malachi 1:6 tells us who the entire book, including 3:8+, is written to: 6 ... saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? - Malachi 1:6 The "will a man rob God?" question is directed to the priests. They have stolen the tithes and offerings from the storehouse. "ye have robbed me, even this whole nation" means the priests have robbed God AND the whole nation - not that the whole nation has robbed God. Just an observation.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON this is so typical when Mormons try to use the Bible , [that they don't even believe is translated correctly] and especially the Old Testament and falsely Appling those verses to their church.
I know a former bishop who was then high priest leader. He told members in class and across the pulpit about what he called "fire insurance". He said as long as he paid his tithing he had never lost a job. Eventually he did get fired from a job and spent the next year looking for work. He never used the "fire insurance" example again.
I was and still am a full-tithe payer. I lost a job once and my Bishop asked me if I needed help. I told him we’re all right. After about a month, I got a better job that paid more and I was promoted three times. The promise of the Lord on tithing in Malachi 3:10 is true. You can bank on it.
@@jimbomanzano4785 You had a good experience. You may also live in an area and have an occupation where jobs are plentiful. I have known older workers who do pay a full tithe and still struggle to find employment. Not all experiences will have the same outcomes.
@@juresichj I have proven to myself that what the Lord said in Malachi 3:10 is true. What kind of proof do you need? The Lord said “prove me now herewith”, and you don’t trust him? How else can what the Lord says be proven except by anecdotal testimonies?
Do you even realize who the Lord is talking to in Malachi...? Jesus came and told us to give alms to the poor. Not to the church, straight to the poor.
@@PhyreReighnBecause of tithing, the Bishops Storehouses are always full of meat and other foodstuffs for the needy of the Church. In Malachi 3:8-10, the Lord says, “8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
@@PhyreReighnBecause of Tithing, all the Bishops Storehouses are always full of meat and other foodstuffs for the poor and needy members of the Church. The Lord says in Malachi 3:8-10, “8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
@@PhyreReighnSure bud keep believing they use your funds just for that. Also God does not care about your material wealth. It’s not a donation if you are forced and condemned to go to hell if you don’t pay your share. The LDS church is the biggest scam ever conceived. Listen to what your president said. He said that paying your tithing basically buys your spot for salvation. It’s a scam and fear mongering
@@jimbomanzano4785 ‘You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father, is perfect.’ Context is everything. What did He mean by perfect.
@@kristinesharp6286 The context of Matthew 5:48 is quite clear to me. In his sermon on the Mount, Jesus was bringing some of his laws to a higher level. Not only are we to Love our neighbor as ourselves, but also “love our enemies”, which is almost impossible to do. I believe that Jesus was teaching a principle to live his gospel (by following his teachings) and keep repenting when we make mistakes and resolve not to repeat the same mistakes until we overcome all our weaknesses and become more and more like Jesus who said I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the Father but by me; Come follow me. We Latter-day Saints believe that in this life, we cannot be perfect like our Heavenly Father. But we believe in the eternal progression of man when we get to heaven to live with the Father and Jesus. There we can learn more and more of our Father in the eternities to come until we become perfect, even as our Father is perfect.
I say, it’s all bullshit, when I was ordered to let my 3yo daughter die and give the money to the church, the money used for her medicine, that saved her life.
That's not a judgement I'd jump to. There are obviously some events that have occurred that should raise an eyebrow such as investments in City Creek downtown and the SEC issues. But until you know the complete full story, I wouldn't cast a judgement such as "honesty" in how they've managed tithing.
@@losiglowfulthe SEC issue is, by definition, a dishonest use of tithing. They broke the law by dishonestly representing the investment of church funds (proximally or distally derived from tithing). If you or I had broken the same law we could face a church membership council and formal/informal membership restrictions.
The global church hires paid organizations and professionals to take care of business. It’s not unusual that an oversight occurs, and the church leaders assume responsility, but more of the blame rests on those managing business for the church.
We came up with a dire situation and wondered if we should pay tithing because paying it would dangerously reduce our food. So, I remembered hearing that tithing entitles members to needed blessings. We paid our tithe which was several hundred dollars each month then asked the bishop for a food order and he without any hesitation refused our humble request. I reminded him that we are faithful tithe payers, and his answer was, "I don't care."
The Bishop is always ready to give a helping hand to those in need, specially to tithe payers like you said you were, which I doubt. The Bishop always cares. He never says I don’t care.
The last day I attended LDS church I had a meeting with my Bishop because my furnace went out -- My mother and sister, aunt, uncle and all grandparents had died recently. In all -- 15 immediate family members in 12 years. I'm completely disabled from a stroke in 1998 and had two sons under 7 with me. I BEGGED my Bishop, sobbing in embarrassment to please keep my children alive. He told me (paraphrasing) "Improve your attendance and we'll talk again". He called me someone else's name and we ran out. No furnace, no food, no properly-looking-at-my-name on the records.
@@juresichj That’s horrible and unheard of. You should report that to the Stake President and there will be a disciplinary council. That bishop if found guilty will be excommunicated.
@@jimbomanzano4785 The Stake President knew what the bishop was doing and saying, and supported him. After I wrote to SLC, and they got on the SP's case, he made the bishop apologize to me, privately, but things didn't change. I went back to the SP, and finally, after more than a year, he let me move my records to another ward. That bishop moved directly to the High Council when he was released, and has been there for about a decade now. Lots of "unheard of" things happen in the LDS church. You don't hear about them because it is a cult, and we are programmed to be good little boys and girls and do what we are told. It seems to often take something horrible to wake us up. I'm slow. It took a LOT of horrible experiences before I finally woke up.
Perhaps someone is trying to compete with what the Lord said in Malachi 3:10. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” In the next verse, the Lord said, “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sake….” If you paid tithing, who knows? you could have received more than 25% pay increase. But you stopped paying tithing. That pay increase could be eroded in many ways. I hope the Lord will rebuke the devourer still, for your sake.
I personally went hungry to pay tithing. I never asked for help from the bishop, because I didn’t feel worthy to ask. They put so much shame on the asking and preach it as a last resort to such extremes that I only would have considered it if I couldn’t make it work by starving myself and not turning on my AC, even in St George in the summer when it was literally 115 degrees. That time of hardship only lasted a few months, but I will never forget how it felt. 😢
@@dr__hennessy5193 So many general conference talks preach that you should pay tithing before you pay your bills or feed your children. That’s the doctrine, friend, and the doctrine sucks. Sure, you can disobey, but I was so brainwashed as a believing member that I didn’t dare because I’d been taught since toddlerhood that if I dared not pay, even to feed my children, my financial difficulties would only get worse. I believed what the prophets taught.
@@rachellevigil9004 I wish more bishops were more understanding. It truly hurts. There’s so many church leaders in all religious sects they do more harm than good. I’ll be teaching my kids to take care of themselves first.
@@rachellevigil9004The church teaches what the Lord promised in Malachi 3:10. I have been keeping the Law of Tithing for 4 decades now. The Lord’s promise on tithing is true. You can bank on it.
Having lived the church's interpretation of tithe in the D&C of paying 10% of income for my entire life, I'm over 70 now, I went back and studied it, and pulled out my dictionary. The Lord said, 10% of interest. Interest is PROFIT. What is left AFTER expenses. NOT income. The church does not get to rewrite the dictionary just to enrich the church. God knows English better than we do and chose the word he meant. If He had meant income, He would have said income. This demand for tribute money or else, is extortion, and thus, the church is guilty of robbing the poor. Jesus clearly commanded over and over to care for the poor and needy, not extort money from them. I am thoroughly disgusted with these rich, well fed jerks, telling people to pay tithing instead of eat. Jesus would NEVER do such a thing.
The church went from not just denying temple recommends but putting fear in people threatening them with being burned up when Jesus returns. Shame on them when they were building expensive malls, bailing out their insurance company and hoarding and hiding money. I don't think Christ would want their money. He taught take care of the poor, the orphans and widows. They are living like the Pharisees of His time. Looking down on the needy and constantly putting guilt on them.
I agree. The threat of "being burned" I view as a horrific fear based manipulation. I certainly don't worship a God who would use such threats to push people to conform. It's disgusting.
@@TheShodan92 There’s no doubt in my mind you do use fear based manipulation and worship a God that uses threats even worse than this to push people to conformity. You are describing society. Society has used fear based manipulation for so long that society encouraged suicide by excluding people, we would not be seeing my community and others fighting against society for our rights, we would not have organisations like ABA forcing children to conform to society. A child flapping his hands as stimulatory movements hurts no body, so why must it be stopped? A child wanting to play by himself hurts no one, so why force the child to interact with others? “Don’t conform and we’ll bully, discriminate, mock and hurt you.”
I like something George Carlin once said, there is an invisible man who lives in the sky. He has ten rules that you must follow. If you break any of these rules he has a special place for. Where there's smoke, fire and pain, and you will burn for all eternity, but he loves you, and he needs money! He is all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipotent, but he just can't manage money!
i've never been a mormon, and the idea of tithes a debt you have no choice over is horrifying. the idea that it is a debt basically strips your gifts of all meaning.
Hi Nemo. Your hard work and insight on these videos is much appreciated by me. I'm the great granddaughter or Joseph Fielding Smith, and great great granddaughter of Joseph F Smith who made that statement about the time when the church will not need to ask for anymore tithes from the people. My dad served in Manchester England in the 70's and his father was the mission president. The saints in the UK were very important to both of them. Ultimately, before he died, my dad paid 100's of thousands of dollars to the church but none was left as an inheritance for his kids. He died as a bishop, serving and giving EVERYTHING to this church. I hardly knew him because he took his covenant to give everything to the building up of zion to heart including all of his time and talents in addition to his money. My inlaws are very poor and rely on us to help them out and yet they never miss paying their tithes. Neither does my widow mother. I feel so many sad feelings about the church. About it's deceptions, the way it handles tithing, the way they change the covenants willy nilly in a hush-hush manner when people like my dad took them word-for-word to heart. I can't help but wonder what might have been different had todays wording of covenants been the ones my father made. Or what he would feel if he was still here and aware of the church's deception. The church meant everything to my family and my ancestors. I feel bitterly betrayed. And my family wants to hear nothing of my disenchantment. I am the "fallen elect" you see. Your efforts matter a great deal to many of us who are left to pick up the pieces.
Personally I don't like their attitude at all is give us all your money we don't have any let your family starve let the poor mother-in-law father-in-law go without but pay your ties let them all my God I tell you
My parents too have paid 100% tithes, and fast offerings. As I look back, I see that we struggled to survive. Hard times. All the support they got from the church was, a pay on the back and to tell them that better times were ahead. There are just two of us kids. Because I am a female (and left the church years ago), my younger brother everything. What he doesn't want, it goes to the church. I cannot say I get nothing. My mom has past away, I got her clothes (worm out as they were). I have already told my kids not to expect anything when my dad passed away. I've already seen the wills.
@@creativecrizzma111 when my mom died and at the funeral dinner at the board house dance my sister to pay for the ham after my dance get doubled up on her tithing payment something like 400 $500 a month absolutely not this woman could hardly afford to pay that but she did and if you're going to charge us for the ham will just not have the dinner here somewhere else where she will be appreciated for all her ours also so they back down
If the wording were different then he likely would've followed it that way, but it wasn't because it wasn't supposed to be worded differently. Contuining revelation and changing things is through the direction of God to His prophets, it does not mean what was said before was wrong for the people of that time, infact it was 100% true for him and the people of his time. Now the times are different and the Lord asks different things of His people. That's just how God chooses to work. God loves us all but the more we try to put limits on things that "God is allowed to" change in HIS church, then the more we are going to be disappointed. God does not change but He always has and always will change the guidance received to His people according to their circumstances and time period to be able to help those people the best He can. I know this is true and I hope that helps you understand a bit more of the importance in truly understanding the principle of continuing revelation.
Anyone who has TRULY studied the subject of the Biblical Tithe KNOWS that it had NOTHING to do with MONEY!! The biblical tithe was basically FOOD! Produce, grains, herbs, spices, livestock. The tithe was NEVER paid to a "church" but rather it was collected for the tribe of Levi, the Priests (who did not have a land inheritance). The tithe was used to support them because they did not have their own land allotment from YHWH from which to produce food to live on. Any "church" corporation that demands it's members PAY "tithes" (money) is a FALSE religious organization, no better than well known CULTS such as Scientology.
10% of your income it might be money or food that's why all you have to do is to bring what you have if you say it as nothing to do with money then you are wrong, it is about everything.
@@claytonwilson278 The point was that tithing was never meant to result in an extremely wealthy church government, with vast real estate holdings, investments, etc. A church where the most powerful leaders say the poor/destitute should hand over 10 percent of their food money. It simply wasn't. That is a clear perversion. The way Jesus looked upon riches is well founded. Tithing was meant to FEED THE POOR AND NEEDY, not to build a kingdom of material buildings/riches. Just remember Jesus. Read the synoptic gospels and put more weight on what he taught than you put on your religious authorities. The pharisees who believe they speak for God, enjoy lavish greetings the marketplace, sit in highest seats at feasts - they are alive and well and powerful. Beware. And remember Jesus.
LDS is not a religious empire a corporation disguised as a religion, the congregation are victims is the very top leaders that deceive the people of their enormous rainy day fund is more like a rainy decade fund.
"Anyone who has TRULY studied the subject of the Biblical Tithe KNOWS that it had NOTHING to do with MONEY!! The biblical tithe was basically FOOD! Produce, grains, herbs, spices, livestock." complete nonsense. the reason that is what they paid, is because that is what they had. apparently you have never read the parable of the widows mite.
I'll bet the church $250B that those who don't pay tithing have more money at the end of the year than those who do. But they won't take that bet. And we all know why.
Kid Freshie, Think first, it's rather stupid to place such a bet, I would take your bet any day. The members not tithing are probably not tithing because they have so little money. Say someone has $250 per month and a tithe payer has $1000 per month. [($250 x 12) - ($25 x 12)] = $2,700 [($1000 x 12) - ($100 x 12)] = $10,800 Tithe payer has $10,800 at the end of the year, while the one not tithing has $2,700. You would of lost the bet by over $8000.
@@danielmoore4024 Uhhh...you clearly don't understand my argument 🤣🤣🤣 Obviously it's implied that the experiment would compare apples to apples. Are you really this stupid?
@@Weeepaaa Kid would still lose the bet, give the tithing back to the one with $250 per month and they've got $3000, still falling short. So if I were so greedy I would make the bet. I assume it's not just in my country that the cost of everything is rising, the only thing I don't see rising is people's wages. From my view, due to this far fewer members are going to tithe, fewer will hold temple recommends, temple workers will be too overwhelmed by fewer doing temple work, then the church leaders will have no choice but to stop making members tithe if they want the church to stand.
I've seen soo many beautiful blessed people in the LDS Church that pay their tithing forward and they are greatly blessed by the Savior and the Heavenly Father. I've felt their beautiful spirits fall upon me because of their desires to do faithful things that the Master asked of them and they went forward willingly to do it because it was asked of them. It had nothing to do with the thought of who receives that money. Most people that are in need of money in the church receive it due to circumstances far beyond what a normal person deals with. I know bc I have seen it myself in someone that was dealing with an issue and the church gladly helped them in their hard trials.
Even if you open your eyes you will see nothing because the church Will never operate the way you want and they are not Perfect being an Ex Member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day as nothing to do do with the restored church just repent and the bible says the humble people will be the only people who Will enter his kingdom nothing good will come without a challenge.
@@yijumiller5659 In that case, everyone's sleeping including you. Just like the rest of us, you see things the way you want to see them, humans don't see reality as it actually is. If we take this money as an example, all this cash is just paper. We only value this paper because we (not reality) gave it a valuable meaning. If cash was put in our hands before we knew what cash is we would of just torn it or throw it away. Can you see the evidence that people are not perceiving the same world as each other. You've constructed your own world and you always reconstruct it, it is why someone's view of the world can change in the snap of a second, all they have to do is change the way they view life. Think of exmembers, they saw one world while a member, and now they see a completely different world, the world didn't change, what changed was the person's beliefs.
I understand u being frustrated by judgement from others. However tithing is an ACT of faith . It's how we show heavenly father that we believe, doing it no matter the circumstances. What is done with it from then isnt mine or your problem anymore.
Our brain is wired to protect our sense of reality. One of the survival instincts. When you believe you will be damned etc for criticizing church leaders, it becomes much more likely you will criticize anyone who dares criticize the elite and powerful. Fear the big and important and powerful ones who claim to speak for God. Fear is a serious motivator.
Rarely do people mention how much of a burden tithing is on it's poorest members since a 10% tithe is more burdensome on them than say a rich member who pays the same rate. Regressive taxation is punishment against the poor.
Ha ha!! That is so funny. 10% is 10%. If you make $1 you pay ten cents. If you make $100 you pay $10. How in the world does that come out more for people who make less?!!
@@carriegodfrey4806 It doesn't, but the burden is more because they have less to begin with. The reality is that the poorest members should be paying less percentage in tithing than the wealthy members. Mormon tithing is punishment against the poor.
@philbrooks5979 The blessings I receive from a loving, generous, all-knowing God are more valuable to me than money. I have lived in times of great need and know how hard it is to choose between paying a bill, buying food or paying tithing and as long as I paid an honest tithe we never starved. Our blessings were more abundant when we were honest with God.
Is it any wonder that so many people are leaving this church. Listening to the aforementioned videos of these General Authorities just enrages me. The church has billions of liquid dollars and assets and yet still pushes this tithing bs on so many people who are struggling to merely get by. When I left this abominable church a huge burden was lifted off, and my life has been better than ever before when I was following it's precepts.
I always paid my tithing immediately when I would get paid. After my brother died it made me start thinking about things more critically. I don’t believe that a loving god would separate us because I didn’t give money to an organization. If god is not loving and understanding of that, I don’t want to worship that God or “live with him” again.
Perhaps the most damning is that, in the Church Auditing Department's own words, the First Presidency directly oversees all Church budgets, practices, etc.
The day I found out how much money the church has is the day I stopped paying tithing. Subsequently, that's when my financial situation improved more than any other time in my life... Things that make you go hmmm 🤔
Greed will be the ultimate undoing of the LDS Corporation. Too many members will start questioning why it hoards the money, rather than using it for humanitarian purposes as it claims.
Due to circumstances beyond my control i am unable to pay tithing. God has still blessed me and continues to. I was told by the branch president 1 year after my circumstances changed " if you need anything let me know" why the long wait to tell me this. I will not be asking, as members we have been told you can receive help for 3 months only. God has proved to me i don't have to be paying my tithing to be blessed.🤔
Love your videos, Nimo. Personally, I think the question of being a faithful tithe payer should not be a condition for entering the temple. They make it sound like a price for admittance. In regards to paying tithe, Why not be like most churches. Pay What you can When you can. To me that's the perfect measure of one's faith instead of threats like if you don't pay tithe you will burn.
Exactly! Many protestant churches are realizing the tithe system was never part of the New Testament church and going to a love offering or give according to what you decide in your heart to give to the church. Some still call it a tithe, but I would get rid of the term all together. It helps also belonging to a church that holds to the true gospel as passed down through the ages by the original 12 Apostles and the early church. Nothing has changed regarding the doctrinal integrity of the real church regarding God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the resurrection and eternal life to those who believe. The only places where strange teachings and super controlling organizations thrive are, you guessed it, cults.
@@kristinrichmond8185 The old covenant with the ceremonial laws and regulations and tithing are done away with. You will not find tithing taught in the New Testament. The early church did not practice tithing. They practiced giving out of sincere motive, not coercion and domineering control. It was a free will offering.
Why not be like most churches and only go to church 2 times a year if you feel like it. Or most churches that just make up their interpretations of the scriptures. Most churches have no extra money to help those in need.
Yes!! Thank you for a concise video without anything to offend that I can post in response to the members saying “why should it matter? I would do the same”
Im a former LDS member i was ordained a priest the church hounded me to pay tyhing even though they knew i was unemployed at the time and could not afford tyhing none of the of the other members or authorities would help me out with things but i was told had serve others unconditionally
Pay tithing and get blessings. Who knows what those blessings are? The church takes the thing and buys stock for their portfolio. Now you know what the churches blessings are...
I was a serious investigator until I learned the leadership has no responsibility to be transparent on finance issues to the membership. That told me they were hiding things. I would NEVER join any type of organization whose books were closed to the members.
If they opened them up, do you think there would be demands that they spend it in a certain way? Do you think it would have changed your opinion? I know that President Nelson is a prophet, and if the Lord wants him to use those funds in a specific way, then I don't want the average Joe demanding they use it in the way the average Joe want to. Do you think that President Nelson gets more money now than if he had stayed a heart surgeon? It isn't like these general authorities are gaining anything from their service, they often forgoe lots of money to serve. Elder Richard G. Scott was a nuclear physicist and gave up his position to serve as a mission president, and stayed serving in the Church full-time, never going back to his career.
That's a picture of one of my bishops, Ron Tribe. Robert Casey is a photographer for the church, and several of my children are in photos in church publications. The saddest one was when he asked our daughter to be featured in an article about grief, and he took pictures of her at a graveside, and the next year, my husband killed himself because of pressures of the LDS church.
You can go on the adventure or you can stay home. Paying tithing is a very reliable adventure I've been taking for decades. All that experience has told me that God takes care of those who show up for the adventure.
The church took care of my twin brothers' service after his unexpected death catering and everything,becoming a member changed my life,I follow the commandments and repent daily, I study and have had a feeling in my heart and spirit that is beyond understanding without the gospel and the holy spirit
I have to remember that for 37 years I fell for all this BS but, it is so so cringe. He to watch now and I wish so badly my family could see things the way I do now. Thank you so much for your videos great content
I know Aubrey; if your family just read the Bible! I would bet the church does not press members to read it, completely! I’ve had many visits from missionaries and their almost half way thru reading the Good Book. How can you testify of CHRIST and not read his book? Two books . . that’s our second clue somethings wrong. You have joined Joseph Smiths Church, not Jesus Christ’s! I’m so happy for you! Keep praying for your family. Take care.
@@mmahoot I would be more careful with your bets, all of last year the whole church studied the Old Testament. This year the whole church is studying the New Testament. Next year, 2024, the whole church will be studying the Book of Mormon. The year after, 2025, the whole church will be studying D&Cs and the Pearl of Great Price. Then the year after we will be back to the Old Testament. You lost the bet, I suggest like Nemo you actually do the research and not just make blind bets, Nemo actually provides evidence, fact check before making statements.
@@mmahoot What do you make of this passage of scripture: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Which Mormon book do you think this comes from? Ha it comes from John 10:16. Right here in the New Testament Jesus Christ is announcing that he has other followers not known to his disciples in Israel. Why is that such a stretch that if Christ had other followers, they might also have other scriptures. Pray about it.
@@cindywoodbury385 Hi Cindy, wonderful passage! And yes, the shepherd will lose not one of his own, Amen. We know this because he left all accounts in the Bible. He is the Word. Sorry this is a bit late; I don’t usually leave comments, let alone someone respond, but I never tire talking about the Lord. Thank you; we’ve got to keep each other on our toes because we love him so much!
Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith said a century ago that he foresaw the day when the Church would be so well off financially, that there would no longer be a need for the members to pay thing. Soooo, when is enough actually enough? $25B in assets, or as some claim, $125B?
Examples from Douglas Stilgoe: 1. The church has $150B of investements. Douglas assumes leaders of the church are greedy. 2. The church keeps on building temples: Douglas assigns the motive of Pres. Nelson building his legacy. 3. The church still has cases of abuse against children: Douglas assigns that the church doesn't care about children and ignores the laws of the lands and the complexity of the world we live in. 4. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl: Douglas assumes JS was a pedophile with no evidence that their was any sexual relationship. 5. Douglas has his records removed from the church. Douglas blames everyone else except himself. Almost every video Douglas has made assigns negative motives and reasons to all things LDS church. He has tons more of takes on the LDS church. In almost every case he assigns fairly negative motives as well as a lot of his followers. Watch his videos and take notes. You will see how twisted his viewpoints are.
My roommate is a single mom from Columbia. Children were literally starving to death in her old ward. It’s so wrong that the church isn’t helping their own members in 3rd world countries. In her ward here in the US, the bishop has been making several member’s BOAT and RV payments. It all makes me sick.
In many countries bishops can only pay out what they take in. So a ward in Bolivia that takes in $50 a month in fast offerings can only pay out $50. The same does not apply in western countries like the U.S.
Those who denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints get so carried away that they even make things up with baseless and absurd allegations.
Yup I'm sure Jesus is telling the church, members should fore go eating and instead give me more money and then when they pray one time maybe they will find there car keys
In Canada we are told not to accept tithing from people getting a government check. That includes disability, workman's compensation, unemployment, welfare, etc. Seniors are also told to pay on their pensions, unless they want to. Everyone else is expected to pay tithing. People cannot get a temple recommend without paying tithing since it is one of the interview questions.
I pay my tithing whenever I can. I've been brought up in the church and I'm not your typical holy holy tithe payer despite what weve been taught. On the other-hand, The church has always been there for me when I needed assistance, always.
Exactly what my Bishop said to me. On SSDI as my only income, as a widow and disabled and unable to work, I was told to pay my tithing even though that was my money for food.
But you did not you tell your Bishop that your tithing money was for your food. If you did, he would have encouraged you to pay tithing and would have given you more food than you need from the Bishop’s storehouse.
@jimbomanzano4785 I was very clear with the Bishop this was my food money for the month. Every dollar was accounted for some bill. I asked if I payed my tithing would the Church provide food and he said no. 😒 I had a friend ( non-LDS) who said I could go the Catholic foodbanks or food pantries each month. That put things in perspective for me. The Church does not need my tithing.
@@brendaplunkett8659 You’re showing that you do not understand the principle of paying tithing. Read and learn what the Lord promised in Malachi 3:10. It’s like a covenant with the Lord: Give your tithing and prove me if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour out blessings to you. It is a test if faith! You said to the bishop “If I pay tithing will you give me food? Where is your faith in that? It’s called “haggling”. If your narrative is true, the bishop did the right thing because you were haggling with him about paying tithing. The Bishop is the Lord’s representative to receive tithing. They receive inspiration as to what blessings or help you get from the church depending on your situation. Paying tithing is a test of faith, not a bargaining chip to haggle with the Bishop.
Many other religions have been blessed, seen Miracles, and had spiritual awakenings! LD$ is not the only one. They are the only ones requiring a payment/taxing of 10% to learn secret codes, handshakes to heaven and $$ to a multi level marketing scam of delusions being gods of their own worlds where they can marry many wives and have spirit babies forever - smh
@@PhyreReighnYou are obsessed with denigrating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I wonder why. Perhaps you believe you church is the true one. What is its name?
@@jimbomanzano4785 I am an advocate and warning those in LD$ Turmoil from a CULTure they cant get out of. Your Delusions are up there with Chad Daybell who sure sets the bar. Church of "Latter Days" End of times "Preparing the People" lmao 2+2=3
Putting a person's full practice of faith and salvation behind a paywall is pure evil. I'm in the process of converting to the Catholic faith. Every Sunday my wife and I put something in the collection plate, but it is an amount we can afford, and if we put nothing in, we would still be able to fully practice our faith. I was born into the Mormon church and I'm very glad I left when I was a young man.
I take issue with the word “Your” tithing. It gives ownership to the members. It’s not “their” tithing. When it’s worded this way it sounds like an obligation. I take no ownership for My tithing. What BS!
I was told, while unemployed, with a sick three year old, to give the church the money I had for my daughter’s medicine, they would pray for her, if she died going without the life saving medication, then it was god’s will. Can you begin to guess what my thoughts and actions were? If the church shows up at my door, it will get ugly. I will never again walk into another church.
Kind of going straight to the extreme. How many seriously have to choose between eating and paying tithing? Some I'm sure, but not most. I appreciate the video but I'm still paying my tithing. I can't speak for everyone like these people who have to choose between food or rent vs. paying tithing. But as for me, I've been extremely well blessed and in most cases, clearly haven't deserved it. It's always been easy to criticize the Church for nearly anything, tithing least of all.
Titheing is a commandment. I'm not remotely involved in where the money goes or for what purposes. Just as malachi teaches, pay your tithing, it's those in charge of the storehouse who will cop it. My responsibility is to follow the commandment
Your not following the lord if your mormon the mormon church is a cult they build temples which are not necessary we are saved by grace alone not works
2 Corinthians 9:7 "7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under COMPULSION, for God loves a cheerful giver."
How much do the brethren pay in tithes? Does the church even pay 10% for the welfare of man-kind? Admission into the temple is absolutely a pay to play scenario. No pay, no admission…full stop!
Brigham Young changed the commandment and purpose of tithing, it was not God. Brother Brigham was like King Noah. He needed more so he could pay for his wives and concubines...
If it wasn't for tithing and my faith to pay my tithing first... I would not have been able to meet my bills. And when I would lose a job or some other negative experience happened to me... the Church was always willing to help.
Why should tithing EVER be 'a test of fellowship'? The SDA Church uses it in the same way....unless you are a 'faithful tithe-payer' you cannot hold ANY kind of office in the church. The treasurer in each local church even works out a secret 'signal' with the Pastor (I know of one who told me they give the Pastor a kick under the table) if someone is nominated by the committee to take up a particular position in the church, and the treasurer knows that person doesn't pay their tithe. He said they will then try to steer the nominating committee away from that person in some way. Never mind if the person might be struggling with any other sin...it's only whether they pay their tithing that matters!!
Yes, tithing is to be voluntary at this point. I, therefore, announce it to now be optional and voluntary beginning on this 20th day of June, 2023, and it shall ever so remain. I further announce that coffee and beer are now okay too. Haha.
When i was a deacon they used to make us go collect fast offerings on fast sunday. They would give each of us a stack of little blue envelopes with these draw strings attached to them to each of us. We then had to go to church members homes to collect fast offerings from them. We woukd hand them the envelope and th,ey would go inside and either put a check or cash or nothing in the envelope, and hand it back to us. We werent supposed to look inside, but i would open them and take out all the cash if any and pocket it. I would turn my envelopes in and say some of them werent home and then go to 7/11 and play video games And I never paid tithing.
It has been forty years since I was a member. I was taught not so much as a commandant to pay to tithe but how the blessings of heaven will open unto you through your faith. Think of the old Mormon film "Windows of Heaven." Like the story, my cousin shared that he need to x amount of money to pay off a loan that was coming due, but because of things out of his control, he didn't have the money, but he paid 10% of the amount needed, over the next weeks, he was able to make the money needed. The question I am asking is whether having faith in the blessings that come from following the commandments being taught anymore? From the sound bits, it seems you have to do it because I said so.
I'm an ex-member as well but much more recent (1 year), and I can say that, so far as I'm aware, the Church is still emphasizing the blessings you supposedly receive for paying tithing. However, skeptics and critics, both within and without the Church, tend to cut past that fluff when talking about tithing because, blessings or not, the Church does demand tithing if you have any intention of being a card-carrying member. So yeah, the emphasis is still on the fluff, but the reality is that if you want to see your family in the afterlife, or attend your daughter's wedding, you have to be paying your 10%.
My testimony is that after I stopped paying tithing, I was extremely blessed. I made my first trip abroad, I'm living in a new apartment and no longer living with family members. With a part of 10% of my salary, I use to leisure with my wife, taking advantage of rock bars, new drinks experiment, I really spend time with my wife, which was not happening in the temple. When I was a member and faithful tithing payer, I had a complicated financial life. Life, or God, as you think better, showed me that I stopped paying tithing was the best decision of my life.
@@josephsmitheapedranochapeu9565 I doubt that, if I said that my wife would be very insulted to have a husband who thinks it was a better decision to not tithe than to be her husband. I would say choosing to love and be loved is a better decision than anything to do with money. I feel sorry for your wife.
@@danielmoore4024 The church requires tithing, my wife has been very blessed, we spend more time together, having fun together. My wife and I paid tithes faithfully, then we went through the crisis of faith, because of the historical issues of the church, from that moment on we saw that we no longer had the need to pay tithes, and things improved a lot in our lives. She really loves me, because I went through the crisis of faith before her, and she was very understanding, although at the beginning it was difficult for her, she started to understand the issues... the burden became lighter, we don't need to attend church meetings when we weren't together, she didn't have to worry about polygamy issues after this life. Every day more people go through the experience of leaving Mormonism
@@josephsmitheapedranochapeu9565 I would still say choosing to have someone you love as your wife is a better decision than anything to do with money. Where Christ says in the scriptures people have eyes cannot see, that is actually true from an irreligious stance. Most people on this earth can't see they're blinded by their own illusions including members of this church. Anyone who can see, never suffers regardless of the circumstances in their life. It's why I don't get depressed at the loss of loved ones, it's why I don't suffer from my own disabilities, it's how I am able to control the world. If your eyes are open you would be able to control the world you're in as what you see is a projection of your own thoughts. That's why we all contradict each other, as humans we don't see reality as it is and are blind to our own blindnesses. Since humans can't see reality, that's why I choose faith.
I have advise for existing members when it come to tithing, pay $10 a month they want ten then pay ten, if the Bishop says something then say it is better 1% of something than 100% of nothing, I can pay you guys $10 a month so I can feed my family, pay bills and not to become a burden to the church (we all know how much the church hates to help their members financially) or tell the bishop I can give you 100% of nothing what do you prefer?
Rob God > pay tithing to church = church is God Isn't it convenient in every religion that the priestly caste gets to say that they will receive offerings on God's behalf? Like, trust us, God is totally getting some of this money you gave us.
I find the concept of anyone "tithing" in the USA very weird. Having fought a war to free themselves from the tyranny of us Brits, why would anyone subject themselves to tithing? That died out rapidly in the UK post 1536, was further diminished by the enclosures of land commenced 1604 and barely existed by 1800. The final abolition of tithing (to a church or landlord who were sometimes one and the same) was an Act of Parliament in 1836. 🤷♀🤷♀🤷♀🤷♀
Tithing is confined to churches, of which we have thousands (including hundreds of different denominations). It seems that you're comparing apples and oranges here.
D&C Section 120 doesn’t mention the quorum of the twelve as part of the committee on the disposition of tithes and offerings. It mentions a “high council” which I suspect is a reference to the high council of Zion. “Originally, the Presiding High Council outranked the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, at least at the organized stakes. Nauvoo Stake President William Marks was president of the High Council at the time of Smith's death. Smith's widow, Emma Hale Smith, urged Marks to succeed Smith as President and Trustee-in-Trust of the church, and articulated her argument thusly: "Now as the Twelve have no power with regard to the government of the Church in the Stakes of Zion, but the High Council have all power, so it follows that on removal of the first President, the office would devolve upon the President of the High Council in Zion, as the first President always resides there, and that is the proper place for the quorum of which he is the head; thus there would be no schism or jarring. But the Twelve would attend to their duties in the world and not meddle with the government of the church at home[,] and the High Council in Zion and the first Presidency would attend to their business in the same place."[31] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_crisis_(Latter_Day_Saints)
You know, I always love the church the membership but I think a whole lot of it is a bunch of crock. From what I learn. And how they change everything to suit them the suit the church. And if they were really Ben guided by God and revelation by God. Why has so many things changed? Over hundred plus years
Mine was when I looked at what the church was investing in , mentally, i had a view of the money changers of old. I did not feel it was Christ like. Upon praying, it was confirmed with the feeling of peace. This was before any knowledge of what they had socked away. Christ will judge us all.
i just heard the most disgusting ill thought out comment i have ever heard. there sre destitute families out there who have been convinced GOD will smite them if they feed the children b4 tithing. how many children had to go to bed hungry becaust their food money was sitting in the bishops office.
The Church takes care of the spiritual and temporal needs of the members. The Bishop’s storehouse is full because of tithing according to Malachi 3:10. The General Authorities of the church gave up lucrative jobs and all their possessions when called to serve full-time in the global church and they pay tithing too on the allowance given them as they travel around the globe to oversee the needs and progress of the church.
@@jamesmorphe8003Thank you for your suggestion. Our leaders in the Church know how to manage the expenditure of tithing through inspiration from the Lord.
@@jamesmorphe8003 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes care of the temporal, social, emotional and spiritual needs of its members. They are all helped to help themselves until they become self-reliant. No worries of going to bed hungry or burnings as you imply. How about you? What is the name of the church you are a member of?
Tithing is God’s way to bless his obedient children. It is also the means to forward the mission of his church to spread the gospel, perfect the saints and build temples for sacred ordinances for the living and the dead.
Religions are ways to gain power & control. Mankind can help mankind regardless of which "god" demands a taxing 10% to learn handshakes, secret codes, multi level marketing strategies to become gods of a world
@@PhyreReighnI’m sorry you feel that way. Because of tithing and the wise and inspired way the leaders of the Church are investing the talents which the Lord has given them, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is becoming an ENSIGN to the nations of the world. (Isaiah 5:26).
@@jimbomanzano4785 Dont be sad or feel sorry. Ive never been happier and have come to know god in the truest way without secrets, money, or conditioned promises.
@@jacobsamuelson3181 Right? As I watch LD$ siblings sue each other, con men dishonest in LD$ community, wives living best dress facades, peer pressure to the point of suicides cause kids aren't good enough. All for the sake of buying our way to secret handshakes, ridiculous costumes and multi level marketing to heaven. I do donate where I choose. Not LD$ anymore
Tithing was my final break from the church. I could either keep the electricity and gas on and buy groceries or pay tithing, The church refused to help. The spirit whispererd to me that God didn't need my money. I felt at peace and paid my bills.
I find it really hard to believe the church wouldn't help. I know personally of people who the lds church help by paying their bills and providing food for those in your exact situation.
@@jackburton307 The previous month, our branch president paid half our rent and said that would be it
A few years before, the church changed the welfare program (I was finance clerk at the time--this was about 1997) and they really discouraged financial assistance. What made this more amazing is that they also refused to give food storehouse assistance. I later learned that we weren't alone.
(I also have a hilarious story from a few months before when we had a bishop [stake was reorganized between the two incidents]. I went to him and he said that my ions were out of balance and his wife sold oils that would fix that. Turns out he told everyone that. I don't blame the church for that; he clearly became a nutter and was soon released.)
@@iceguy9723 that sounds about right. Although I think they provide bishop warehouse food more readily than financial assistance. Lol on the ion "essential oils" 🤣
Well according to that one talk they should have bought your groceries.
A lot of things that made me stop to believing to the Mormon church including Tithing and the law of Consecration and the low of chastity the word of wisdom and many more, but thithing is really break me and stoo my faith to the church, i seen many time the members were in seriously sickness and church doesn't helps.
I have read the Bible several times and fail to find where the apostles took up collections for building big buildings, temples, shoping centers ,malls ,stock purchases. This sounds more like a corporation not a church
You are conflating things. The shopping center is something that was NOT paid for by tithing. Why do people continue promoting this falsehood? The "malls, stock purchases" are also NOT using tithing funds.
You also failed to remember that Ananaias and Sapphira were struck dead for holding back part when they had been askt to give ALL. Perhaps you missed this part? How do people feel they can be right with so much wrong in their statement? Also, Jesus never said that the widow giving her mite shouldn't give her mite. To me, that is actually condoning a tithe.
I agree that there may be situations where people should be helped, but people are called to go through difficult times, and through those experiences learn things they couldn't learn any other way.
I know a man who lost millions of dollars in his business when he was living in California, and he went into the bishop to ask for help. The bishop looked at him and said, I think you can find a way out of this. The man said, yes, I can find a way out of this, and he did.
All I am saying is that people need to first understand the scriptures, because to me, they teach the principle of tithing. People also fail to understand that when you sacrifice for sometihng, in this case the Church, you have a vested interest in its progress; you take it more seriously.
Amen
Try the parable of the talents where Jesus commended his servants who doubled the talents given them. The global church is keeping up with the times and doing good at it. What do you think?
Jesus said no one can serve two masters. For where your treasures are your heart will be also.
Right? When a shoe is restored its still a shoe! The Bible says nothing about this new age "restored" priesthood, temple ceremonies by LD$, or any of what you listed!! False multi level marketing to heaven!
I was a full-time paying member with a head injury. Being disabled because of the head injury, I did not have much, but I did pay my full tides and offerings. For a short time, the bishop was helping me with food. A new bishop came in and he put a stop to that immediately. So they don’t always take care of you. After being told that I continued paying my tithing and going to church for years until having my eyes opened.
Your story makes my blood boil. I’m sorry you were treated so shabbily.
Your story makes my blood boil. I’m sorry you were treated so shabbily.
So which church are you a member of now?
@@jimbomanzano4785??!
We need a class action suit!
This BOILS my blood. My father works for the church and the pay level is BARELY over the poverty line. They aren't taking care of their flock and it makes me so mad there is such secrecy and lack of considered oversight.
These are my thoughts exactly. My dad was a seminary teacher when I was growing up and they barely paid him a living wage for his family.
He is lucky to get paid. Think of the 10's of thousands of members who work for FREEEE!
The feels! I paid thousands in 10% over the years. Not to mention fast tithes, kids on missions etc. Always held a temple card and went. I was in a serious car accident and had I saved that LD$ money, I would be okay. mormons have not helped at all here in UTAH now! Disability in USA pays $600. I had my LD$ name & number removed.
@@PhyreReighnYou say you had paid tithing and other things. The Lord made a promise in Malachi 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
Take your grievance to the Lord dear Brother, and ask him humbly why. I know the Lord always keeps his word. From my experience on paying tithing for 48 years, I received blessings beyond my expectations, no room enough to receive them.
Nevertheless, I had challenges and trials in life, dear Brother, but I remained faithful in the Church, keeping in mind what the Lord said in D&C 136:31, “My people must be tried in all things, that they may be prepared to receive the glory that I have for them, even the glory of Zion; and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom.”
What work does your father do in the church? All ecclesiastical workers in the church including bishops, stake presidents, Sunday school presidents and teachers, Youth leaders, etc, render part time service on voluntary basis and do not receive any pay.
The Church hires professionals (members or not) such as engineers, architects, accountants, contractors, etc, as needed, to render professional services full-time for which they are paid handsomely.
Being a divorced single Male and requesting help from the church - I have never been so humiliated in my life by how my Salt Lake City branch president handled my situation. It was so demoralizing. So to see these ass hats say pay your tithing over food and then just ask your bishop for help - they have no idea of what the reality is. This branch president acted as though the money was coming from his own pocket. The whole experience was traumatic.
Yes they're not Perfect it happened to me also.sometimes they think you are just being lazy you don't want to work for yourself because you know the church as got a lot of money they want you to explain more of why you are struggling and i found that they focus too much on protocols that need to be followed first for them to help you sometimes they fail to discern and follow the spirit because sometimes they don't even help you because they're also members who take advantage of that.
sorry to hear that. All you should really need is a self-reliance plan and then support. That is all. The branch president needs some training.
Dang man, that sucks !
My ex husband couldn't even get help with meals after shoulder surgery. Disgusting.
Leave the non-christian cult. Come to Jesus who is God! John 1:1 Jesus is the Word and is In The Beginning!
You must pay to play. Just pay, obey, and stay out of the way. They talk about how "worldly" others are, but their primary focus is to FOLLOW THE PROFIT.
'Follow the Profit' 😅😂🤣!!!! Love it!!!
I love that. ❤️😀
I want to comment on the Malachi verse so often cherry-picked by The Brethren™.
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
- Malachi 3:8-9
We are told the people have robbed God. But is that what's being said here?
Malachi is a single revelation from beginning to end. To whom is it written?
After a bit of an into, Malachi 1:6 tells us who the entire book, including 3:8+, is written to:
6 ... saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
- Malachi 1:6
The "will a man rob God?" question is directed to the priests. They have stolen the tithes and offerings from the storehouse. "ye have robbed me, even this whole nation" means the priests have robbed God AND the whole nation - not that the whole nation has robbed God.
Just an observation.
That's a very good analysis. It clears everything up. Thank for pointing it out.
Thank you very much!
Dayumn.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON this is so typical when Mormons try to use the Bible , [that they don't even believe is translated correctly] and especially the Old Testament and falsely Appling those verses to their church.
WOW!
I know a former bishop who was then high priest leader. He told members in class and across the pulpit about what he called "fire insurance". He said as long as he paid his tithing he had never lost a job. Eventually he did get fired from a job and spent the next year looking for work. He never used the "fire insurance" example again.
I was and still am a full-tithe payer. I lost a job once and my Bishop asked me if I needed help. I told him we’re all right. After about a month, I got a better job that paid more and I was promoted three times. The promise of the Lord on tithing in Malachi 3:10 is true. You can bank on it.
@@jimbomanzano4785 You had a good experience. You may also live in an area and have an occupation where jobs are plentiful. I have known older workers who do pay a full tithe and still struggle to find employment. Not all experiences will have the same outcomes.
@@jimbomanzano4785 Anecdotal evidence is not proof. It is a one-off. Your story doesn't happen for many families.
@@juresichj I have proven to myself that what the Lord said in Malachi 3:10 is true. What kind of proof do you need? The Lord said “prove me now herewith”, and you don’t trust him? How else can what the Lord says be proven except by anecdotal testimonies?
Do you even realize who the Lord is talking to in Malachi...? Jesus came and told us to give alms to the poor. Not to the church, straight to the poor.
Pay your tithing to a church worth nearly $150 billion instead of paying your rent and face eviction smh
We "donate"(not payments) to communities, organizations, & individuals in need. Karma does come back !
@@PhyreReighnBecause of tithing, the Bishops Storehouses are always full of meat and other foodstuffs for the needy of the Church.
In Malachi 3:8-10, the Lord says, “8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
@@PhyreReighnBecause of Tithing, all the Bishops Storehouses are always full of meat and other foodstuffs for the poor and needy members of the Church.
The Lord says in Malachi 3:8-10, “8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
@@PhyreReighnSure bud keep believing they use your funds just for that. Also God does not care about your material wealth. It’s not a donation if you are forced and condemned to go to hell if you don’t pay your share. The LDS church is the biggest scam ever conceived. Listen to what your president said. He said that paying your tithing basically buys your spot for salvation. It’s a scam and fear mongering
God spare me from another conference of elderly Americans explaining in slow monotones for hours on end how nothing i do is ever good enough
Did they talk about perfection? Jesus taught this in Matthew 5:48, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
@@jimbomanzano4785 ‘You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father, is perfect.’ Context is everything. What did He mean by perfect.
@@kristinesharp6286 The context of Matthew 5:48 is quite clear to me. In his sermon on the Mount, Jesus was bringing some of his laws to a higher level. Not only are we to Love our neighbor as ourselves, but also “love our enemies”, which is almost impossible to do.
I believe that Jesus was teaching a principle to live his gospel (by following his teachings) and keep repenting when we make mistakes and resolve not to repeat the same mistakes until we overcome all our weaknesses and become more and more like Jesus who said I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the Father but by me; Come follow me.
We Latter-day Saints believe that in this life, we cannot be perfect like our Heavenly Father. But we believe in the eternal progression of man when we get to heaven to live with the Father and Jesus. There we can learn more and more of our Father in the eternities to come until we become perfect, even as our Father is perfect.
I say, it’s all bullshit, when I was ordered to let my 3yo daughter die and give the money to the church, the money used for her medicine, that saved her life.
No kidding, there has never been a day leaving a church service that I didn’t feel depressed and suicidal Thankfully I’m away from that now.
As an active member of the church this is something I agree with you on, it's ridiculous how they aren't being honest with tithing. :-(
That's not a judgement I'd jump to. There are obviously some events that have occurred that should raise an eyebrow such as investments in City Creek downtown and the SEC issues. But until you know the complete full story, I wouldn't cast a judgement such as "honesty" in how they've managed tithing.
@@losiglowfulthe SEC issue is, by definition, a dishonest use of tithing. They broke the law by dishonestly representing the investment of church funds (proximally or distally derived from tithing). If you or I had broken the same law we could face a church membership council and formal/informal membership restrictions.
There has always been a long explanation about that one. I was a believing robot for a long time.
The global church hires paid organizations and professionals to take care of business. It’s not unusual that an oversight occurs, and the church leaders assume responsility, but more of the blame rests on those managing business for the church.
@@losiglowfulAmen!
We came up with a dire situation and wondered if we should pay tithing because paying it would dangerously reduce our food. So, I remembered hearing that tithing entitles members to needed blessings. We paid our tithe which was several hundred dollars each month then asked the bishop for a food order and he without any hesitation refused our humble request. I reminded him that we are faithful tithe payers, and his answer was, "I don't care."
So what did you do?
The Bishop is always ready to give a helping hand to those in need, specially to tithe payers like you said you were, which I doubt. The Bishop always cares. He never says I don’t care.
The last day I attended LDS church I had a meeting with my Bishop because my furnace went out -- My mother and sister, aunt, uncle and all grandparents had died recently. In all -- 15 immediate family members in 12 years. I'm completely disabled from a stroke in 1998 and had two sons under 7 with me. I BEGGED my Bishop, sobbing in embarrassment to please keep my children alive. He told me (paraphrasing) "Improve your attendance and we'll talk again". He called me someone else's name and we ran out. No furnace, no food, no properly-looking-at-my-name on the records.
I had a bishop tell me that he didn't care if my daughters and I were raped, robbed, murdered or homeless - we were not his problem.
I guess the furnace was considered a "lifestyle choice." I even heard of bishops who considered family pets a lifestyle choice.
@@juresichj
That’s horrible and unheard of. You should report that to the Stake President and there will be a disciplinary council. That bishop if found guilty will be excommunicated.
@@jimbomanzano4785 The Stake President knew what the bishop was doing and saying, and supported him. After I wrote to SLC, and they got on the SP's case, he made the bishop apologize to me, privately, but things didn't change. I went back to the SP, and finally, after more than a year, he let me move my records to another ward. That bishop moved directly to the High Council when he was released, and has been there for about a decade now. Lots of "unheard of" things happen in the LDS church. You don't hear about them because it is a cult, and we are programmed to be good little boys and girls and do what we are told. It seems to often take something horrible to wake us up. I'm slow. It took a LOT of horrible experiences before I finally woke up.
The month I stopped paying my tithing I received a 25% pay raise! Thank you Jebus! 😊
Less than a year after I stopped paying tithing, I started receiving Social Security widow's benefits from a husband I had divorced 30 years before.
Love this !!! lol
Perhaps someone is trying to compete with what the Lord said in Malachi 3:10. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
In the next verse, the Lord said, “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sake….”
If you paid tithing, who knows? you could have received more than 25% pay increase. But you stopped paying tithing. That pay increase could be eroded in many ways. I hope the Lord will rebuke the devourer still, for your sake.
@@jimbomanzano4785 Or Perhaps someone needs to take the sermon on the mount back to their own country
Absolutely! Religions inevitably for power & greed. We the people decide who we donate to and Karma pays back 25% !
I personally went hungry to pay tithing. I never asked for help from the bishop, because I didn’t feel worthy to ask. They put so much shame on the asking and preach it as a last resort to such extremes that I only would have considered it if I couldn’t make it work by starving myself and not turning on my AC, even in St George in the summer when it was literally 115 degrees.
That time of hardship only lasted a few months, but I will never forget how it felt. 😢
Not asking for help that’s on you. You can skip tithing to feed yourself and pay you’re bills. Ive had some amazing bishops.
@@dr__hennessy5193 So many general conference talks preach that you should pay tithing before you pay your bills or feed your children. That’s the doctrine, friend, and the doctrine sucks.
Sure, you can disobey, but I was so brainwashed as a believing member that I didn’t dare because I’d been taught since toddlerhood that if I dared not pay, even to feed my children, my financial difficulties would only get worse. I believed what the prophets taught.
@@rachellevigil9004 I wish more bishops were more understanding. It truly hurts. There’s so many church leaders in all religious sects they do more harm than good.
I’ll be teaching my kids to take care of themselves first.
@@rachellevigil9004The church teaches what the Lord promised in Malachi 3:10. I have been keeping the Law of Tithing for 4 decades now. The Lord’s promise on tithing is true. You can bank on it.
Having lived the church's interpretation of tithe in the D&C of paying 10% of income for my entire life, I'm over 70 now, I went back and studied it, and pulled out my dictionary. The Lord said, 10% of interest. Interest is PROFIT. What is left AFTER expenses. NOT income. The church does not get to rewrite the dictionary just to enrich the church. God knows English better than we do and chose the word he meant. If He had meant income, He would have said income. This demand for tribute money or else, is extortion, and thus, the church is guilty of robbing the poor. Jesus clearly commanded over and over to care for the poor and needy, not extort money from them. I am thoroughly disgusted with these rich, well fed jerks, telling people to pay tithing instead of eat. Jesus would NEVER do such a thing.
Yes it was 10% of your increase on crops or sheep. Not if you had one sheep sell it all and give 10% away.
No blessings for giving a tenth of net. Blessings for giving a tenth of gross.
Spot on. The corporation is robbing the poor. When I meet with the Bishop I answer about my increase/net after living expenses.
@@whitewolf30fwhere is this doctrine?
I wonder if the Seventy pay tithing on their “living expenses” 🤔🤔🤔
The church went from not just denying temple recommends but putting fear in people threatening them with being burned up when Jesus returns. Shame on them when they were building expensive malls, bailing out their insurance company and hoarding and hiding money. I don't think Christ would want their money. He taught take care of the poor, the orphans and widows. They are living like the Pharisees of His time. Looking down on the needy and constantly putting guilt on them.
I agree. The threat of "being burned" I view as a horrific fear based manipulation.
I certainly don't worship a God who would use such threats to push people to conform. It's disgusting.
@@TheShodan92
There’s no doubt in my mind you do use fear based manipulation and worship a God that uses threats even worse than this to push people to conformity. You are describing society.
Society has used fear based manipulation for so long that society encouraged suicide by excluding people, we would not be seeing my community and others fighting against society for our rights, we would not have organisations like ABA forcing children to conform to society. A child flapping his hands as stimulatory movements hurts no body, so why must it be stopped? A child wanting to play by himself hurts no one, so why force the child to interact with others?
“Don’t conform and we’ll bully, discriminate, mock and hurt you.”
Where does the idea of burning originate?
@@karencross3815 D&C 64:23
I agree I am a member of the church. Starving or paying tithing I am feeding my family first .
I like something George Carlin once said, there is an invisible man who lives in the sky. He has ten rules that you must follow. If you break any of these rules he has a special place for. Where there's smoke, fire and pain, and you will burn for all eternity, but he loves you, and he needs money! He is all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipotent, but he just can't manage money!
i've never been a mormon, and the idea of tithes a debt you have no choice over is horrifying.
the idea that it is a debt basically strips your gifts of all meaning.
Follow Jesus and his teachings, even if it goes against the LDS church.
Hi Nemo.
Your hard work and insight on these videos is much appreciated by me.
I'm the great granddaughter or Joseph Fielding Smith, and great great granddaughter of Joseph F Smith who made that statement about the time when the church will not need to ask for anymore tithes from the people.
My dad served in Manchester England in the 70's and his father was the mission president. The saints in the UK were very important to both of them.
Ultimately, before he died, my dad paid 100's of thousands of dollars to the church but none was left as an inheritance for his kids. He died as a bishop, serving and giving EVERYTHING to this church. I hardly knew him because he took his covenant to give everything to the building up of zion to heart including all of his time and talents in addition to his money.
My inlaws are very poor and rely on us to help them out and yet they never miss paying their tithes. Neither does my widow mother.
I feel so many sad feelings about the church. About it's deceptions, the way it handles tithing, the way they change the covenants willy nilly in a hush-hush manner when people like my dad took them word-for-word to heart. I can't help but wonder what might have been different had todays wording of covenants been the ones my father made. Or what he would feel if he was still here and aware of the church's deception.
The church meant everything to my family and my ancestors. I feel bitterly betrayed. And my family wants to hear nothing of my disenchantment. I am the "fallen elect" you see. Your efforts matter a great deal to many of us who are left to pick up the pieces.
Personally I don't like their attitude at all is give us all your money we don't have any let your family starve let the poor mother-in-law father-in-law go without but pay your ties let them all my God I tell you
My parents too have paid 100% tithes, and fast offerings. As I look back, I see that we struggled to survive. Hard times. All the support they got from the church was, a pay on the back and to tell them that better times were ahead. There are just two of us kids. Because I am a female (and left the church years ago), my younger brother everything. What he doesn't want, it goes to the church. I cannot say I get nothing. My mom has past away, I got her clothes (worm out as they were).
I have already told my kids not to expect anything when my dad passed away. I've already seen the wills.
@@creativecrizzma111 when my mom died and at the funeral dinner at the board house dance my sister to pay for the ham after my dance get doubled up on her tithing payment something like 400 $500 a month absolutely not this woman could hardly afford to pay that but she did and if you're going to charge us for the ham will just not have the dinner here somewhere else where she will be appreciated for all her ours also so they back down
If the wording were different then he likely would've followed it that way, but it wasn't because it wasn't supposed to be worded differently. Contuining revelation and changing things is through the direction of God to His prophets, it does not mean what was said before was wrong for the people of that time, infact it was 100% true for him and the people of his time. Now the times are different and the Lord asks different things of His people. That's just how God chooses to work. God loves us all but the more we try to put limits on things that "God is allowed to" change in HIS church, then the more we are going to be disappointed. God does not change but He always has and always will change the guidance received to His people according to their circumstances and time period to be able to help those people the best He can. I know this is true and I hope that helps you understand a bit more of the importance in truly understanding the principle of continuing revelation.
@@gjorinykreim6477 keep drinking the Kool-Aid buddy and you will soon wake up
Anyone who has TRULY studied the subject of the Biblical Tithe KNOWS that it had NOTHING to do with MONEY!! The biblical tithe was basically FOOD! Produce, grains, herbs, spices, livestock. The tithe was NEVER paid to a "church" but rather it was collected for the tribe of Levi, the Priests (who did not have a land inheritance). The tithe was used to support them because they did not have their own land allotment from YHWH from which to produce food to live on. Any "church" corporation that demands it's members PAY "tithes" (money) is a FALSE religious organization, no better than well known CULTS such as Scientology.
10% of your income it might be money or food that's why all you have to do is to bring what you have if you say it as nothing to do with money then you are wrong, it is about everything.
@@claytonwilson278 The point was that tithing was never meant to result in an extremely wealthy church government, with vast real estate holdings, investments, etc. A church where the most powerful leaders say the poor/destitute should hand over 10 percent of their food money. It simply wasn't. That is a clear perversion. The way Jesus looked upon riches is well founded. Tithing was meant to FEED THE POOR AND NEEDY, not to build a kingdom of material buildings/riches. Just remember Jesus. Read the synoptic gospels and put more weight on what he taught than you put on your religious authorities. The pharisees who believe they speak for God, enjoy lavish greetings the marketplace, sit in highest seats at feasts - they are alive and well and powerful. Beware. And remember Jesus.
LDS is not a religious empire a corporation disguised as a religion, the congregation are victims is the very top leaders that deceive the people of their enormous rainy day fund is more like a rainy decade fund.
"Anyone who has TRULY studied the subject of the Biblical Tithe KNOWS that it had NOTHING to do with MONEY!! The biblical tithe was basically FOOD! Produce, grains, herbs, spices, livestock."
complete nonsense.
the reason that is what they paid, is because that is what they had.
apparently you have never read the parable of the widows mite.
Tell us what qualifies you to make such authoritative statements. Is it possible you are mistaken?
I'll bet the church $250B that those who don't pay tithing have more money at the end of the year than those who do. But they won't take that bet. And we all know why.
Kid Freshie,
Think first, it's rather stupid to place such a bet, I would take your bet any day.
The members not tithing are probably not tithing because they have so little money.
Say someone has $250 per month and a tithe payer has $1000 per month.
[($250 x 12) - ($25 x 12)] = $2,700
[($1000 x 12) - ($100 x 12)] = $10,800
Tithe payer has $10,800 at the end of the year, while the one not tithing has $2,700. You would of lost the bet by over $8000.
@@danielmoore4024 Uhhh...you clearly don't understand my argument 🤣🤣🤣 Obviously it's implied that the experiment would compare apples to apples. Are you really this stupid?
@@Weeepaaa
Kid would still lose the bet, give the tithing back to the one with $250 per month and they've got $3000, still falling short.
So if I were so greedy I would make the bet. I assume it's not just in my country that the cost of everything is rising, the only thing I don't see rising is people's wages.
From my view, due to this far fewer members are going to tithe, fewer will hold temple recommends, temple workers will be too overwhelmed by fewer doing temple work, then the church leaders will have no choice but to stop making members tithe if they want the church to stand.
I'll take that bet.
I've seen soo many beautiful blessed people in the LDS Church that pay their tithing forward and they are greatly blessed by the Savior and the Heavenly Father. I've felt their beautiful spirits fall upon me because of their desires to do faithful things that the Master asked of them and they went forward willingly to do it because it was asked of them. It had nothing to do with the thought of who receives that money. Most people that are in need of money in the church receive it due to circumstances far beyond what a normal person deals with. I know bc I have seen it myself in someone that was dealing with an issue and the church gladly helped them in their hard trials.
This is so frustrating to me as an ex-mo with mormon family members judging me - how can they not see this??? Open your eyes!!
Can’t wake up the sleepers because they will get upset at you
Even if you open your eyes you will see nothing because the church Will never operate the way you want and they are not Perfect being an Ex Member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day as nothing to do do with the restored church just repent and the bible says the humble people will be the only people who Will enter his kingdom nothing good will come without a challenge.
@@yijumiller5659
In that case, everyone's sleeping including you.
Just like the rest of us, you see things the way you want to see them, humans don't see reality as it actually is.
If we take this money as an example, all this cash is just paper. We only value this paper because we (not reality) gave it a valuable meaning. If cash was put in our hands before we knew what cash is we would of just torn it or throw it away.
Can you see the evidence that people are not perceiving the same world as each other. You've constructed your own world and you always reconstruct it, it is why someone's view of the world can change in the snap of a second, all they have to do is change the way they view life.
Think of exmembers, they saw one world while a member, and now they see a completely different world, the world didn't change, what changed was the person's beliefs.
I understand u being frustrated by judgement from others. However tithing is an ACT of faith . It's how we show heavenly father that we believe, doing it no matter the circumstances. What is done with it from then isnt mine or your problem anymore.
Our brain is wired to protect our sense of reality. One of the survival instincts. When you believe you will be damned etc for criticizing church leaders, it becomes much more likely you will criticize anyone who dares criticize the elite and powerful. Fear the big and important and powerful ones who claim to speak for God. Fear is a serious motivator.
Rarely do people mention how much of a burden tithing is on it's poorest members since a 10% tithe is more burdensome on them than say a rich member who pays the same rate. Regressive taxation is punishment against the poor.
Ha ha!! That is so funny. 10% is 10%. If you make $1 you pay ten cents. If you make $100 you pay $10. How in the world does that come out more for people who make less?!!
@@carriegodfrey4806
It doesn't, but the burden is more because they have less to begin with. The reality is that the poorest members should be paying less percentage in tithing than the wealthy members. Mormon tithing is punishment against the poor.
@philbrooks5979 The blessings I receive from a loving, generous, all-knowing God are more valuable to me than money. I have lived in times of great need and know how hard it is to choose between paying a bill, buying food or paying tithing and as long as I paid an honest tithe we never starved. Our blessings were more abundant when we were honest with God.
@@carriegodfrey4806
Expecting worldly 'Blessings' in return for cult obedience and payment to a manmade organization is not a Christian belief.
@@carriegodfrey4806So, in essence, you buy blessings. Nice. 🤦♀️
Is it any wonder that so many people are leaving this church. Listening to the aforementioned videos of these General Authorities just enrages me. The church has billions of liquid dollars and assets and yet still pushes this tithing bs on so many people who are struggling to merely get by. When I left this abominable church a huge burden was lifted off, and my life has been better than ever before when I was following it's precepts.
Those leaving chose money over everything good.
" ... a destitute family ... eating or paying their tithing ... they should pay their tithing." I can't believe anyone would say that!!!
Nemo, I love you soooo much for the truth!!!!! May God continue to bless & keep you!
The time and money I could have saved had anyone had the courage to do this! I cut my losses and ran the other way!
I just love this video you made Nemo!! I’m a member but there is so much I shake my head at!!!
I always paid my tithing immediately when I would get paid. After my brother died it made me start thinking about things more critically. I don’t believe that a loving god would separate us because I didn’t give money to an organization. If god is not loving and understanding of that, I don’t want to worship that God or “live with him” again.
Bingo!! 🎯
Fail. It's not about the money, it's your lack of faith. You made money your God.
@@whitewolf30f interesting - can you elaborate on how I have made my money god?
Perhaps the most damning is that, in the Church Auditing Department's own words, the First Presidency directly oversees all Church budgets, practices, etc.
I think that is such a joke that they have that guy get up and say trust us everything is above board. Yeah right
I love how a bunch of wealthy businessmen are telling starving poor people to keep giving them money
Wealthy? Not one of them is well off. Not one owns a luxury car, nor a mansion, nor a yacht, not any other extravagance
@@whitewolf30f your faith blinds you
@@whitewolf30fWhat are you going on about? They are driven around in limos with drivers and bodyguards.
Raised Catholic we just passed a donation basket at church. Nobody knew what anybody donated. Totally up to you with zero expectations.
The day I found out how much money the church has is the day I stopped paying tithing. Subsequently, that's when my financial situation improved more than any other time in my life...
Things that make you go hmmm 🤔
Any church that hordes a $160 BILLION investment portfolio has no business asking anyone for a damned dime! 😏😏
Greed will be the ultimate undoing of the LDS Corporation. Too many members will start questioning why it hoards the money, rather than using it for humanitarian purposes as it claims.
World's largest humanitarian aid program
@@whitewolf30f
That belongs to the Catholic Church.
Tithing is to be paid on increase. Modern accounting procedures have changed that.
Due to circumstances beyond my control i am unable to pay tithing. God has still blessed me and continues to. I was told by the branch president 1 year after my circumstances changed " if you need anything let me know" why the long wait to tell me this. I will not be asking, as members we have been told you can receive help for 3 months only. God has proved to me i don't have to be paying my tithing to be blessed.🤔
We've always said "The church is led by prophets". Perhaps that actually should have been 'Led by profits'!!!
Wow! Thank you for linking the last financial report! My friends and I are doing a PowerPoint night, and I was hoping to include that.
My 10% raise has allowed me to start considering saving for retirement someday
Love your videos, Nimo. Personally, I think the question of being a faithful tithe payer should not be a condition for entering the temple. They make it sound like a price for admittance.
In regards to paying tithe, Why not be like most churches. Pay What you can When you can. To me that's the perfect measure of one's faith instead of threats like if you don't pay tithe you will burn.
Well said!
Exactly! Many protestant churches are realizing the tithe system was never part of the New Testament church and going to a love offering or give according to what you decide in your heart to give to the church. Some still call it a tithe, but I would get rid of the term all together. It helps also belonging to a church that holds to the true gospel as passed down through the ages by the original 12 Apostles and the early church. Nothing has changed regarding the doctrinal integrity of the real church regarding God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the resurrection and eternal life to those who believe. The only places where strange teachings and super controlling organizations thrive are, you guessed it, cults.
Bible says 10%
@@kristinrichmond8185 The old covenant with the ceremonial laws and regulations and tithing are done away with. You will not find tithing taught in the New Testament. The early church did not practice tithing. They practiced giving out of sincere motive, not coercion and domineering control. It was a free will offering.
Why not be like most churches and only go to church 2 times a year if you feel like it. Or most churches that just make up their interpretations of the scriptures. Most churches have no extra money to help those in need.
Yes!! Thank you for a concise video without anything to offend that I can post in response to the members saying “why should it matter? I would do the same”
My pleasure!
Im a former LDS member i was ordained a priest the church hounded me to pay tyhing even though they knew i was unemployed at the time and could not afford tyhing none of the of the other members or authorities would help me out with things but i was told had serve others unconditionally
Pay tithing and get blessings. Who knows what those blessings are? The church takes the thing and buys stock for their portfolio. Now you know what the churches blessings are...
I was a serious investigator until I learned the leadership has no responsibility to be transparent on finance issues to the membership. That told me they were hiding things. I would NEVER join any type of organization whose books were closed to the members.
If they opened them up, do you think there would be demands that they spend it in a certain way? Do you think it would have changed your opinion? I know that President Nelson is a prophet, and if the Lord wants him to use those funds in a specific way, then I don't want the average Joe demanding they use it in the way the average Joe want to. Do you think that President Nelson gets more money now than if he had stayed a heart surgeon? It isn't like these general authorities are gaining anything from their service, they often forgoe lots of money to serve. Elder Richard G. Scott was a nuclear physicist and gave up his position to serve as a mission president, and stayed serving in the Church full-time, never going back to his career.
That's a picture of one of my bishops, Ron Tribe. Robert Casey is a photographer for the church, and several of my children are in photos in church publications. The saddest one was when he asked our daughter to be featured in an article about grief, and he took pictures of her at a graveside, and the next year, my husband killed himself because of pressures of the LDS church.
The arrogance and callousness of these men is breathtaking.
You can go on the adventure or you can stay home. Paying tithing is a very reliable adventure I've been taking for decades. All that experience has told me that God takes care of those who show up for the adventure.
True
The church took care of my twin brothers' service after his unexpected death catering and everything,becoming a member changed my life,I follow the commandments and repent daily, I study and have had a feeling in my heart and spirit that is beyond understanding without the gospel and the holy spirit
I have to remember that for 37 years I fell for all this BS but, it is so so cringe. He to watch now and I wish so badly my family could see things the way I do now. Thank you so much for your videos great content
I know Aubrey; if your family just read the Bible! I would bet the church does not press members to read it, completely! I’ve had many visits from missionaries and their almost half way thru reading the Good Book. How can you testify of CHRIST and not read his book? Two books . . that’s our second clue somethings wrong. You have joined Joseph Smiths Church, not Jesus Christ’s! I’m so happy for you! Keep praying for your family. Take care.
@@mmahoot
I would be more careful with your bets, all of last year the whole church studied the Old Testament.
This year the whole church is studying the New Testament.
Next year, 2024, the whole church will be studying the Book of Mormon.
The year after, 2025, the whole church will be studying D&Cs and the Pearl of Great Price.
Then the year after we will be back to the Old Testament.
You lost the bet, I suggest like Nemo you actually do the research and not just make blind bets, Nemo actually provides evidence, fact check before making statements.
@@mmahoot What do you make of this passage of scripture: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Which Mormon book do you think this comes from? Ha it comes from John 10:16. Right here in the New Testament Jesus Christ is announcing that he has other followers not known to his disciples in Israel. Why is that such a stretch that if Christ had other followers, they might also have other scriptures. Pray about it.
@@cindywoodbury385 Hi Cindy, wonderful passage! And yes, the shepherd will lose not one of his own, Amen. We know this because he left all accounts in the Bible. He is the Word. Sorry this is a bit late; I don’t usually leave comments, let alone someone respond, but I never tire talking about the Lord. Thank you; we’ve got to keep each other on our toes because we love him so much!
@@danielmoore4024
stop with the arrogant, condescending comments, SHEEP
Pay tithing, don't eat...yup, as a single mom with no money this was my advice. Sick
Did he actually admit it should be 10% of your interest, not income? And still people do not understand what is happening to them.
Yes, I caught that too. I'm not LDS so I'm not sure the significance of it
Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith said a century ago that he foresaw the day when the Church would be so well off financially, that there would no longer be a need for the members to pay thing. Soooo, when is enough actually enough? $25B in assets, or as some claim, $125B?
Examples from Douglas Stilgoe:
1. The church has $150B of investements. Douglas assumes leaders of the church are greedy.
2. The church keeps on building temples: Douglas assigns the motive of Pres. Nelson building his legacy.
3. The church still has cases of abuse against children: Douglas assigns that the church doesn't care about children and ignores the laws of the lands and the complexity of the world we live in.
4. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl: Douglas assumes JS was a pedophile with no evidence that their was any sexual relationship.
5. Douglas has his records removed from the church. Douglas blames everyone else except himself.
Almost every video Douglas has made assigns negative motives and reasons to all things LDS church. He has tons more of takes on the LDS church. In almost every case he assigns fairly negative motives as well as a lot of his followers. Watch his videos and take notes. You will see how twisted his viewpoints are.
My roommate is a single mom from Columbia. Children were literally starving to death in her old ward. It’s so wrong that the church isn’t helping their own members in 3rd world countries. In her ward here in the US, the bishop has been making several member’s BOAT and RV payments. It all makes me sick.
In many countries bishops can only pay out what they take in. So a ward in Bolivia that takes in $50 a month in fast offerings can only pay out $50. The same does not apply in western countries like the U.S.
Bishop making RV and Boat payments? I never heard anything of the sort in my 48 years membership in the church.
Those who denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints get so carried away that they even make things up with baseless and absurd allegations.
Yup I'm sure Jesus is telling the church, members should fore go eating and instead give me more money and then when they pray one time maybe they will find there car keys
In Canada we are told not to accept tithing from people getting a government check. That includes disability, workman's compensation, unemployment, welfare, etc. Seniors are also told to pay on their pensions, unless they want to. Everyone else is expected to pay tithing. People cannot get a temple recommend without paying tithing since it is one of the interview questions.
That is very sensible advice.
I pay my tithing whenever I can. I've been brought up in the church and I'm not your typical holy holy tithe payer despite what weve been taught. On the other-hand, The church has always been there for me when I needed assistance, always.
Imagine being guilt tripped into giving to a $150+ Billion corporation that gives less than 1% back to charity.
Do you realize the LDS corporation doesn't need your tribute $ in order to operate?
Me too
I would love to get my tithing back to help people instead.
It shall be done.
The Church has the world's largest humanitarian aid program, does a trillion times more than some bitter loser with no comprehension
Very well said Mr Nemo! Best wishes from Sweden, /t.
Thanks! Keep your eyes out for a Scandinavian THRIVE event.
Exactly what my Bishop said to me. On SSDI as my only income, as a widow and disabled and unable to work, I was told to pay my tithing even though that was my money for food.
But you did not you tell your Bishop that your tithing money was for your food. If you did, he would have encouraged you to pay tithing and would have given you more food than you need from the Bishop’s storehouse.
@jimbomanzano4785 I was very clear with the Bishop this was my food money for the month. Every dollar was accounted for some bill. I asked if I payed my tithing would the Church provide food and he said no. 😒 I had a friend ( non-LDS) who said I could go the Catholic foodbanks or food pantries each month. That put things in perspective for me. The Church does not need my tithing.
@@brendaplunkett8659 You’re showing that you do not understand the principle of paying tithing. Read and learn what the Lord promised in Malachi 3:10. It’s like a covenant with the Lord: Give your tithing and prove me if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour out blessings to you. It is a test if faith!
You said to the bishop “If I pay tithing will you give me food? Where is your faith in that? It’s called “haggling”.
If your narrative is true, the bishop did the right thing because you were haggling with him about paying tithing. The Bishop is the Lord’s representative to receive tithing. They receive inspiration as to what blessings or help you get from the church depending on your situation.
Paying tithing is a test of faith, not a bargaining chip to haggle with the Bishop.
This is what happens when greed is more important than anything else. They are nothing but thieves.
I cannot afford not to pay tithing - I've been so blessed over such a long time.
Many other religions have been blessed, seen Miracles, and had spiritual awakenings! LD$ is not the only one. They are the only ones requiring a payment/taxing of 10% to learn secret codes, handshakes to heaven and $$ to a multi level marketing scam of delusions being gods of their own worlds where they can marry many wives and have spirit babies forever - smh
@@PhyreReighnYou are obsessed with denigrating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I wonder why. Perhaps you believe you church is the true one. What is its name?
@@jimbomanzano4785 I am an advocate and warning those in LD$ Turmoil from a CULTure they cant get out of. Your Delusions are up there with Chad Daybell who sure sets the bar. Church of "Latter Days" End of times "Preparing the People" lmao 2+2=3
@@PhyreReighnI will let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
I regret every penny I've given
Putting a person's full practice of faith and salvation behind a paywall is pure evil. I'm in the process of converting to the Catholic faith. Every Sunday my wife and I put something in the collection plate, but it is an amount we can afford, and if we put nothing in, we would still be able to fully practice our faith. I was born into the Mormon church and I'm very glad I left when I was a young man.
You will receive an instant 10% raise, once you stop paying tithes, to a church that has $250 billion in the bank.
Now I know what Mormon stands for; More Money💲🤑.
True!
Exactly WHO is going to pay for their dirty deeds, the upper people in charge, or the poorer ones who get brow-beaten to pay more!
I take issue with the word “Your” tithing. It gives ownership to the members. It’s not “their” tithing. When it’s worded this way it sounds like an obligation. I take no ownership for My tithing. What BS!
I was told, while unemployed, with a sick three year old, to give the church the money I had for my daughter’s medicine, they would pray for her, if she died going without the life saving medication, then it was god’s will. Can you begin to guess what my thoughts and actions were? If the church shows up at my door, it will get ugly. I will never again walk into another church.
Kind of going straight to the extreme. How many seriously have to choose between eating and paying tithing? Some I'm sure, but not most. I appreciate the video but I'm still paying my tithing. I can't speak for everyone like these people who have to choose between food or rent vs. paying tithing. But as for me, I've been extremely well blessed and in most cases, clearly haven't deserved it. It's always been easy to criticize the Church for nearly anything, tithing least of all.
Fire insurance can't prevent fires. A better analogy would be "tithing is like smoke alarms"... smoke alarms are what prevents fires. 🙃
Titheing is a commandment. I'm not remotely involved in where the money goes or for what purposes. Just as malachi teaches, pay your tithing, it's those in charge of the storehouse who will cop it. My responsibility is to follow the commandment
That sounds a whole lot like the “just following orders” argument
It's sounds like choosing to follow the lord
Your not following the lord if your mormon the mormon church is a cult they build temples which are not necessary we are saved by grace alone not works
The mormon church is greedy and disgusting I feel sorry for the members
The top mormon leaders will burn in hell for leading people astray
It was a shame that the so-called church demanded offerings from its members during the difficult time of the COVID pandemic.
2 Corinthians 9:7
"7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under COMPULSION, for God loves a cheerful giver."
How much do the brethren pay in tithes? Does the church even pay 10% for the welfare of man-kind?
Admission into the temple is absolutely a pay to play scenario. No pay, no admission…full stop!
Yep! You have to buy a 'ticket'!
World's largest humanitarian aid program
Brigham Young changed the commandment and purpose of tithing, it was not God. Brother Brigham was like King Noah. He needed more so he could pay for his wives and concubines...
If it wasn't for tithing and my faith to pay my tithing first... I would not have been able to meet my bills. And when I would lose a job or some other negative experience happened to me... the Church was always willing to help.
It is the role of the church to help those in defficulties to rise NOT to impovrished
Exactly. Not carry the freeloaders who won't do their part.
If anything, Malachi 3:10 should be a reminder to lay up treasures in heaven, not to bring a check to the next service.
Same thing.
Why should tithing EVER be 'a test of fellowship'? The SDA Church uses it in the same way....unless you are a 'faithful tithe-payer' you cannot hold ANY kind of office in the church. The treasurer in each local church even works out a secret 'signal' with the Pastor (I know of one who told me they give the Pastor a kick under the table) if someone is nominated by the committee to take up a particular position in the church, and the treasurer knows that person doesn't pay their tithe. He said they will then try to steer the nominating committee away from that person in some way. Never mind if the person might be struggling with any other sin...it's only whether they pay their tithing that matters!!
Yes, tithing is to be voluntary at this point. I, therefore, announce it to now be optional and voluntary beginning on this 20th day of June, 2023, and it shall ever so remain. I further announce that coffee and beer are now okay too. Haha.
Haha!
When i was a deacon they used to make us go collect fast offerings on fast sunday. They would give each of us a stack of little blue envelopes with these draw strings attached to them to each of us. We then had to go to church members homes to collect fast offerings from them. We woukd hand them the envelope and th,ey would go inside and either put a check or cash or nothing in the envelope, and hand it back to us. We werent supposed to look inside, but i would open them and take out all the cash if any and pocket it. I would turn my envelopes in and say some of them werent home and then go to 7/11 and play video games And I never paid tithing.
Damn.. I wish I would have thought of doing that, yep those draw strings wrapped around circular flaps. It just never crossed my mind. lol.!
This is an excellent piece.
Thank you kindly!
It has been forty years since I was a member. I was taught not so much as a commandant to pay to tithe but how the blessings of heaven will open unto you through your faith. Think of the old Mormon film "Windows of Heaven." Like the story, my cousin shared that he need to x amount of money to pay off a loan that was coming due, but because of things out of his control, he didn't have the money, but he paid 10% of the amount needed, over the next weeks, he was able to make the money needed. The question I am asking is whether having faith in the blessings that come from following the commandments being taught anymore? From the sound bits, it seems you have to do it because I said so.
I'm an ex-member as well but much more recent (1 year), and I can say that, so far as I'm aware, the Church is still emphasizing the blessings you supposedly receive for paying tithing. However, skeptics and critics, both within and without the Church, tend to cut past that fluff when talking about tithing because, blessings or not, the Church does demand tithing if you have any intention of being a card-carrying member. So yeah, the emphasis is still on the fluff, but the reality is that if you want to see your family in the afterlife, or attend your daughter's wedding, you have to be paying your 10%.
My testimony is that after I stopped paying tithing, I was extremely blessed.
I made my first trip abroad, I'm living in a new apartment and no longer living with family members. With a part of 10% of my salary, I use to leisure with my wife, taking advantage of rock bars, new drinks experiment, I really spend time with my wife, which was not happening in the temple.
When I was a member and faithful tithing payer, I had a complicated financial life.
Life, or God, as you think better, showed me that I stopped paying tithing was the best decision of my life.
@@josephsmitheapedranochapeu9565
I doubt that, if I said that my wife would be very insulted to have a husband who thinks it was a better decision to not tithe than to be her husband.
I would say choosing to love and be loved is a better decision than anything to do with money. I feel sorry for your wife.
@@danielmoore4024 The church requires tithing, my wife has been very blessed, we spend more time together, having fun together.
My wife and I paid tithes faithfully, then we went through the crisis of faith, because of the historical issues of the church, from that moment on we saw that we no longer had the need to pay tithes, and things improved a lot in our lives.
She really loves me, because I went through the crisis of faith before her, and she was very understanding, although at the beginning it was difficult for her, she started to understand the issues... the burden became lighter, we don't need to attend church meetings when we weren't together, she didn't have to worry about polygamy issues after this life.
Every day more people go through the experience of leaving Mormonism
@@josephsmitheapedranochapeu9565
I would still say choosing to have someone you love as your wife is a better decision than anything to do with money.
Where Christ says in the scriptures people have eyes cannot see, that is actually true from an irreligious stance. Most people on this earth can't see they're blinded by their own illusions including members of this church.
Anyone who can see, never suffers regardless of the circumstances in their life. It's why I don't get depressed at the loss of loved ones, it's why I don't suffer from my own disabilities, it's how I am able to control the world.
If your eyes are open you would be able to control the world you're in as what you see is a projection of your own thoughts.
That's why we all contradict each other, as humans we don't see reality as it is and are blind to our own blindnesses. Since humans can't see reality, that's why I choose faith.
I have advise for existing members when it come to tithing, pay $10 a month they want ten then pay ten, if the Bishop says something then say it is better 1% of something than 100% of nothing, I can pay you guys $10 a month so I can feed my family, pay bills and not to become a burden to the church (we all know how much the church hates to help their members financially) or tell the bishop I can give you 100% of nothing what do you prefer?
We don’t need your advice on how we should pay tithing. The word of the Lord in Malachi 3:8-10 is good enough for us.
Rob God > pay tithing to church = church is God
Isn't it convenient in every religion that the priestly caste gets to say that they will receive offerings on God's behalf? Like, trust us, God is totally getting some of this money you gave us.
We need more money .....
We need more money......
We need more money.....
Help us please our hundreds of billions arent enough.....
What a joke .
"Tithe payers shall not be burned at the 2nd Coming" well, shit.
One of your best videos yet! Keep enlightening us with your critical thinking much needed in this times of confusion
I find the concept of anyone "tithing" in the USA very weird. Having fought a war to free themselves from the tyranny of us Brits, why would anyone subject themselves to tithing? That died out rapidly in the UK post 1536, was further diminished by the enclosures of land commenced 1604 and barely existed by 1800. The final abolition of tithing (to a church or landlord who were sometimes one and the same) was an Act of Parliament in 1836. 🤷♀🤷♀🤷♀🤷♀
Tithing is confined to churches, of which we have thousands (including hundreds of different denominations). It seems that you're comparing apples and oranges here.
Wow, pay or burn. Not using fear tactics at alllll.
D&C Section 120 doesn’t mention the quorum of the twelve as part of the committee on the disposition of tithes and offerings. It mentions a “high council” which I suspect is a reference to the high council of Zion.
“Originally, the Presiding High Council outranked the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, at least at the organized stakes. Nauvoo Stake President William Marks was president of the High Council at the time of Smith's death. Smith's widow, Emma Hale Smith, urged Marks to succeed Smith as President and Trustee-in-Trust of the church, and articulated her argument thusly: "Now as the Twelve have no power with regard to the government of the Church in the Stakes of Zion, but the High Council have all power, so it follows that on removal of the first President, the office would devolve upon the President of the High Council in Zion, as the first President always resides there, and that is the proper place for the quorum of which he is the head; thus there would be no schism or jarring. But the Twelve would attend to their duties in the world and not meddle with the government of the church at home[,] and the High Council in Zion and the first Presidency would attend to their business in the same place."[31]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_crisis_(Latter_Day_Saints)
Great insights as always Paul, thank you!
You know, I always love the church the membership but I think a whole lot of it is a bunch of crock. From what I learn. And how they change everything to suit them the suit the church. And if they were really Ben guided by God and revelation by God. Why has so many things changed? Over hundred plus years
Mine was when I looked at what the church was investing in , mentally, i had a view of the money changers of old. I did not feel it was Christ like. Upon praying, it was confirmed with the feeling of peace. This was before any knowledge of what they had socked away. Christ will judge us all.
I ask you, "Will a church rob man?" What a nauseating piece of work this corporation is doing. Thank you for giving a voice to those cracking shelves.
I know some bishops who have members pay the tithing and then cover that cost with food or rent.
The hypocrisy of Jeffrey Holland is such an obfuscation
i just heard the most disgusting ill thought out comment i have ever heard. there sre destitute families out there who have been convinced GOD will smite them if they feed the children b4 tithing. how many children had to go to bed hungry becaust their food money was sitting in the bishops office.
The Church takes care of the spiritual and temporal needs of the members. The Bishop’s storehouse is full because of tithing according to Malachi 3:10. The General Authorities of the church gave up lucrative jobs and all their possessions when called to serve full-time in the global church and they pay tithing too on the allowance given them as they travel around the globe to oversee the needs and progress of the church.
this church needs to set an example and give 10 percent of their income to some charity not affiliated with thedm
@@jamesmorphe8003Thank you for your suggestion. Our leaders in the Church know how to manage the expenditure of tithing through inspiration from the Lord.
@@jimbomanzano4785 im sure that post brings great comfort to a poor woman whose children go to bed hungry because of her fear of burning.
@@jamesmorphe8003 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes care of the temporal, social, emotional and spiritual needs of its members. They are all helped to help themselves until they become self-reliant. No worries of going to bed hungry or burnings as you imply.
How about you? What is the name of the church you are a member of?
Tithing is God’s way to bless his obedient children. It is also the means to forward the mission of his church to spread the gospel, perfect the saints and build temples for sacred ordinances for the living and the dead.
Religions are ways to gain power & control. Mankind can help mankind regardless of which "god" demands a taxing 10% to learn handshakes, secret codes, multi level marketing strategies to become gods of a world
@@PhyreReighnI’m sorry you feel that way. Because of tithing and the wise and inspired way the leaders of the Church are investing the talents which the Lord has given them, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is becoming an ENSIGN to the nations of the world. (Isaiah 5:26).
@@jimbomanzano4785 Dont be sad or feel sorry. Ive never been happier and have come to know god in the truest way without secrets, money, or conditioned promises.
@@PhyreReighn Remove yourself from money and that is how you come to know God. That is the miracle of tithing friend.
@@jacobsamuelson3181 Right? As I watch LD$ siblings sue each other, con men dishonest in LD$ community, wives living best dress facades, peer pressure to the point of suicides cause kids aren't good enough. All for the sake of buying our way to secret handshakes, ridiculous costumes and multi level marketing to heaven. I do donate where I choose. Not LD$ anymore