Nemo… you have an uncanny ability to share your thoughts without bringing anger… it’s quite commendable. It’s something i have yet to master when the church is brought up. Thank you for the hard work you do on behalf of those of us who feel like collateral damage.
I want to organize a counter protest with signs that say on one side those abused by the church and on the other side those still being abused by the church on the other. And stand between protesters and Mormons on conference day
Nailed it Nemo. Even when I was a full TBM this concept always drove me crazy. But it wasn't until after I left that I realized why and it's simply because what they say is the definition of double speak.
Same. I was 40 years in this religion. All my questions and doubts I find were true concerns. They LIED to me every time. I'm So ANGRY! Praying to the wind and empty sky! Handing over so much money, all my kids college money. Wasting SOOOOOO MUCH TIME! Yes. I'm angry. Getting out was such a weight off of me.
@@DQ_Mine I’m sorry. I truly understand. I was a devoted member for 65 years. RS Pres., gospel doctrine teacher, all of it. I choose to value the good things i brought out of the church and work at letting the rest of it go. Wishing you healing and a bright future. ❤️
reminds me of the mythical story of 2 monks both with the bad habit of smoking. The first goes to the abbot and asks if he can smoke during prayers and got a telling off for even considering it. The 2nd however gets a positive answer and praised for his faithfullness, The difference? The 2nd monk replied 'you asked if you could smoke whilst you prayed; i asked if I could pray while I smoked' It all depends on how we ask the questions
...this reminds me of two monks who, separately, went to their pastor (viz., the bishop of the diocese) and the first asked, "Can I pray while I touch a little boy?" And, the 2nd monk asked, "Can I touch a little boy while I pray?" After much investigation (by coppers), they were BOTH thrown into Gaol (Jail), for being pedophiles while they smoked...er, prayed.
Uhhhh, polygamy has been a World-wide cultural practice for THOUSANDS of years. Mormons didnt invent it. Who cares? Men are just...here for us Ladies to use for a paycheck since Adam messed up the Bromance God had planned for the two of them to Garden and Animal-tend His little earth project.. 🤷 Pretty simple really. Plus, I'm not married, I WASTED my 20's on trying to be a 'Good Wife'. My single 30's and early 40's are teaching me 2 things. #1. Using womanly 'wiles' and simpering at a man so he'll pay for EVERYTHING while you get to sit around is Truly an Art-Form!!! #2. Having been Single for almost twice as long as married, I CANNOT stand a man around underfoot in day-to-day life. Don't know how y'all do it! If I were married, I would WANT him gone as much as possible!!
shara( grandma XXX-downline ) and katie price and there 5 kids in 1850-1920's~ would not agree with your comment as i suspect there bi's and yes samuel-M grate-gramp pissed them all off for putting farm/ranch and government/$$-4m-to-20m 1st over there marriage modern day era bi's/polyamory/traid's like my uncle shouldn't feel unwelcome in the Christian/lds church there's not enough good reasons and or historical lds figures/marriage's existed, 1850-1920~ was polygamy and or monogamous marriage and 1950's ( David O mckay was the last/blessings, but that was for a Jewish/atheist convert couple that was already married years before joining ) was opposite and monogamous-only also eurks me Nelson/leadership is a polly now technically he's only got one living wife but temple's/religion it counts and on the pulpit he's hypocrite as he isn't a true-monogamous marriage as defined by scientists/dictionary terminology
Amen Karen, God said in the Old Testament and Bofm, He doesn’t like it. Yes, it has happened throughout time, God NEVER wants it. It was allowed, not desired by God.
The church’s stance on the importance of the nuclear family is what originally led me to research the church which led to my testimony going six feet under. I am aromantic asexual. The doctrine I was taught my whole life is that I would need to be married and have multiple kids or I wouldn’t get to the highest level of heaven. And what I wasn’t taught, that I would have to share an already unwanted husband with other women. If the church loves women, this wouldn’t be a thing at all
You should always pray about whether you should pray about something. If you get the answer that you can pray about something, then pray about that thing. But if you get the answer not to pray about that thing, then don't pray about that thing. Actually, it might be safer to pray about praying about praying about something. And then if.... you get the picture.
I’ve always had doubts about the church even as a kid it’s only recently that I’m actively involved in ex Mormon content and now I know why they told us and everyone active in the church not to consume it. Ex Mormon content simplifies and breaks down all the stuff the church tries so hard to complicate or completely hide. As a black member, this church is shit to us. It took the church WAY too long to allow black members to receive the priesthood it’s kind of crazy.
So it is okay for the current prophet to ask for revelation concerning things that have already been revealed, but not us. So we should just blindly accept whatever the current prophet says. Got it! Oh wait, but we are asked to pray about the truth of the Book of Mormon even though that has already been revealed. I don't know, maybe they changed their minds on that one too. It's almost like it's all just made up. But that can't be, it was already revealed to be true.
You clearly have no capacity for personal revelation. You also don't seem to understand it. Once I received my own witness about the book of Mormon, that was the end of it. Nobody is asking me to ignore my original witness and ask again. Once I've received a witness that God has called and ordained his prophets, that's the end of it. I don't need to sit around wondering why the prophets aren't making the same decisions I would make. Your entire comment is a joke. Nobody "needs" to ask about polygamy because nobody is being asked to live it. It also doesn't make sense to ask about Polygamy when you haven't even done the spiritual groundwork to know if the book of Mormon is true or if Joseph Smith was even a prophet. Receiving answers isn't just about praying and getting the answer. You've got to study and learn. God's not going to fill an empty cup like yours.
I’m absolutely not sharing MY husband in heaven! He unexpectedly passed away last year. Polygamy was evil and always will be. Shame on “leaders” that make it seem normal.
Ah yes, but it did open up a lot of opportunity and options for variety in the recreational department for the duly "anointed" ones who were part of the in-crowd. Yes, you've got "the Lord's anointed," the self-appointed . . . and who knows? Next it may be the double-jointed.
Throughout the times we see that revelations are only a mere desire to adapt to the changes in society. The saying: God's doctrine is eternal, means, as long as there are no pressure or activism that demands the contrary.
Yep. It's funny how these "revaluations" only happen when the cult is under political/legal pressure to change something in their dogma. It never "just happens". There's ALWAYS some outside force pushing for a change. Sounds VERY convient to me! But then, I can think for myself too!
Mormon sermons consist primarily in reminding members, who made open-ended covenants when they were too young and uniformed and blindsided to know what they were committing to, that they must keep all of those covenants as their leaders continuously discover or invent or elaborate them. Church leadership is like a rancher who daily looks at his sheep, anticipating the next slaughter, wondering what new cuts of meat (together with appropriate advertising) could make him the most money.
I've been out since April, but the blatant teachings of false doctrine by the leaders (in particular; Nelson, Oaks, Renlund, Pearson, and Corbit) are highly disturbing to me... 😔
Ironically enough … when I left the church in 2016, I spent my Sundays hiking! I felt so much peace in nature that I hadn’t felt at church, I had only felt deep shame, guilt, and pretty severe depression every Sunday during and after church til the day ended each Sunday.
Jesus never said ONE WORD about attending church. But only, "Where two or three are gathered IN MY NAME, I am in the midst of them.". Really, think about what He said and what He meant then &, therefore, MEANS NOW. The blithering in the clip comes to nothing better than a threat. Low target. And worthy of its speaker.
Good work bro! Keep the dialogue rolling. These short clips on doctrinal inconsistency in modern Mormonism are really good. The way you break it down and present is wonderfully clear, and easy to understand.
Matt Johansson, Have you looked at consciousness and evolution outside of the education system? Just like we were mistaken about so many things historically like the shape of the earth, we have been mistaken about evolution, evolution has blinded humans from seeing reality as what it is. There's a continuum from "reality to fitness", the more tuned into fitness a species is, the less accurately that species sees reality as what it is. We could always be misinterpreting our perception which includes church leaders, especially considering how we interpret the world is rooted in our own history and biases. I strongly agree with the cognitive scientists which explains why I can enjoy life even as one of the most severely disabled people in the UK. We're all responding to our perception, so I enjoying life is a result of how I reconstruct the world and respond to the perception I receive. Part of my perception is disability is not a bad thing, it is simply a difference of state. An analogy scientists use is that evolution has given us a computer interface, we can see all the activity on the desktop, but the reality of that activity is inside the computer and we design different desktops to each other giving us an alternative perspective to others making us respond to the world differently. I philosopher 200+ years ago said: "Thoughts become perception, perception becomes reality. Alter your thoughts, alter your reality." So, by humans being blinded of reality by evolution, how can any of us know the 'truth'? As science isn't about truth anyway.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON like the rest of us, our leaders struggle for inspiration and how to communicate principles in a general way that will not apply to all of us individually or to every circumstance. Many who tried to follow Jesus later found it too difficult to understand or apply. Moses said it was simple to just look to God and live, and Adam when asked why he sacrificed said he didn’t know why but was just being obedient. God speaks through a prophet, people complain and cast them out.. Believers get criticized and persecuted . History repeats itself.
Spot on Nemo. I like when you do a video like this. There's no getting around this, you covered it from multiple angels. One just have to recognise that it doesn't make sense
Yep. Exactly, Nemo. There's more holes in the LDS church than swiss cheese, and so many contradictions within itself from doctrine, to policies, to messages from General Authorities. I left the church 6 months ago because of church history. I've since realized how many things were confusing and didn't make any sense as a believing member. But as a non-believer, all of the anti-mormon explanations make perfect sense.
I'm using that talk at the beginning, because God already revealed His will in the Bible and so to use the Moroni 10:4 test is to ask God for a different answer than He already gave.
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." ♦"Only fools revere the myths just bc a book claims itself to be the holy truth." ♦"The delusional religious fools are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt." ♦"The religious believe by the millions what lunatics could believe on their own." ♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." ♦"It's difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
Why do you thank God for that parable? What does that parable mean to you? Why do you think that parable relates to this video? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
I won't be able to watch these any more. It is too upsetting. Those wicked men, speaking with evil tones. Horrible, disgusting! I listened to every, EVERY general conference for 40 years. Those voices stab me in the heart with all their smug lies and manipulations.
Well done with this, but I'd have approached it from a slightly different perspective. For instance, we are asked to pray about the church being true and to rely on our witness, change our life, and do whatever other sacrifices may be required to join or repent. But once in now, we are being told that we are not fully capable of obtaining answers for ourselves and that there are only some things we can pay about. It seems as though we are being told to relinquish our ability to choose freely for ourselves and that we should seed our will to the leaders. I've really had a problem with this talk. It also contradicts scripture and other leader's comments. From my perspective, it does seem a bit cultish. "Yes, pray to know the church is true, ok now don't pray, you're not capable, we'll tell you what to do"
Thanks for the great job and video. How long will they be able to go on that way? How long will there be members who avoid to think but obey, because they were told to do so?
@Nemo the Mormon Are you still an ACTIVE member of the LDS church? If so: 1) How is it that you haven’t been excommunicated, disfellowshipped or whatever from the church? 2) And, given your critiques of church history and church leaders, what motivates you to stay In the church and not leave it?
Yes! 1) My charm and my whit… (I seriously have no idea) 2) As my recent actions have shown, I’m pretty sure I can make some impact and improve the church by not just abandoning my people!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Haha. The fact that you haven't been excommunicated raises my respect for the LDS church a bit. You have my prayers, and best wishes in your endeavors... I share your care and empathy for the welfare of your people (though not an LDS myself).
"Just ignore everything and anything any other prophet ever said before, and just do whatever *I* tell you to do now!" Well, we might as well just burn our scriptures then, since apparently they can be superseded at any time! It just proves what a bunch of BS it all is!
Great video Nemo. Prs. Monsen was a few years into Alzheimer's's as well at this time.. I do not understand why he was not released for health reasons.....
Nemo, I’m curious about your thoughts on those in the church who believe that Joseph and Hyrum did not teach or practice polygamy. Have you studied this out or have any thoughts on it?
Or how David Whitmer testified that Joseph Smith came to him saying polygamy was wrong and a mistake… David Whitmere’s Declaration To All Believers in Christ saved my faith in the Book of Mormon, because I was so confused how Joseph Smith’s revelation could contradict scripture and cause soooo much pain (I’m 4 generations from polygamy on both sides of my parents).
I'm so sorry but you may not receive this comment as the LDS have restricted my ability to respond to anythig LDS ... I was LDS for 30 yrs .. and I am glad to be an Ex Communicated member of the church of the LDS ..
You could argue that nothing changed in 1978 - The blood of Cain were considered unworthy to receive the priesthood according to the church up until then - all worthy makes were already allowed to hold the priesthood. The 1978 revelation does not say the the blood of Cain are now worthy and we have a repeat of the lost pages.
Don’t even need to pray! I Know it is Not for me. I want a one woman man. I follow my Holy Spirit..Not the opinions of men or women. And the only purpose of a prophet was in the OT..to lead the people BEFORE Jesus Gave us the Holy Spirit and to prophesy of Jesus Coming. Jesus is ALL you Need.
Regarding all the complaints about the Church's leadership. I have no complaints with any of the General authorities words, past or present. I take it all in stride. If something makes no sense, I set it aside. If it fits, I attach it. I was twenty six when I was converted. So I spent the first twenty six years of my life utterly cut off from a knowledge that God is real, from the power of the Priesthood, the comfort of the Holy Ghost, from all scripture and membership in the Church. I was denied all of it. But I don't grumble, nor am I bitter to any degree. I am just glad to be remembered by God and taken from the pit. And I reckon that my path is wisdom in God. I don't seek to leverage fault. But rather, I look for understanding instead of riding a fault like a vehicle to a rash conclusion, and leave truth behind simply to cause harm. And so it is all a matter of personal motivation and what is in our hearts as to whom we serve, be it our God or the Devil.
You make some very good points Nemo. So what can e concluded? Well many will say the LDS Church is not to be believed. Others may say that Joseph Smith should be believed but not the modern leaders. And still others will say modern day prophets are to be followed over previous ones even Joseph Smith. It would seem the leadership of the LDS Church has embraced the last of the three I mentioned above. This would be the wisest choice but only if modern day prophets had the same power to speak with God or Jesus as Joseph Smith claimed. As a member of this Church I have to be honest and state that I do not think modern day leaders or presidents/prophets/apostles since the time of Joseph Smith himself have been as inspired or favored by God. So the Church is kind of in limbo and waiting for Joseph Smith’s true successor to be revealed. The guys currently leading it are like the judges who judged Israel after Moses/Joshua and did so until the next true prophet appeared. (Samuel)That’s what I am waiting for.
Verse 30 is not a loophole, for those still concerned about it. (For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.) Christ IS raising up people unto him RIGHT NOW as Jacob speaks. Jacob 2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord: I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, THAT I MIGHT RAISE UP UNTO ME a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. “THESE THINGS” refers to the ancient abominations as referenced several times in the same chapter. 14 And now, my brethren, do ye suppose that God justifieth you in THIS THING? Behold, I say unto you, Nay. But he condemneth you, and if ye persist in THESE THINGS his judgments must speedily come unto you. 21 Do ye not suppose that SUCH THINGS are abominable unto him who created all flesh? 23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of THE THINGS which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son. 34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done THESE THINGS which ye ought not to have done. So what the verse is saying is: Since I’m raising up seed unto me, I need to warn you about all this or you’ll practice the same abominations they did anciently. If one is still not convinced of the context here, include verse 31 which is a continuation of verse 30, joined by “FOR” (or because). It’s the reason for his warning. The same things/abominations were being practiced in Jerusalem, one of the things Lehi likely had to preach against, and one of the reasons he had to leave. 31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
Here's a thought that I have had a lot lately: In 44 AD it was Church policy that non-Jews that were male that joined Christianity had to be circumcised first. This was done by revelation and by Church Council. Church Councils were part of Christianity from the beginning. So why is it just revelation without Councils? Constanine delivered the Nicene Creed through Council because that was what was started by Peter, and James in the First Century.
You are spot on! Personal revelation and prayer are a must. Satan teaches a person to not pray. Hmmm. Personal revelation is fine as long as it agrees with the church. Example: Nephi killing Laben (direction thru personal revelation), yet there's a commandment against killing. I asked some friends what would they do if they received such a contradictory answer. "You're listening to the wrong spirit". Hmmm. Don't question the prophet today, just obey him, even if he says something contrary to previous prophets. Obey today's prophet without question. Isn't that putting man above Christ? Isaiah warned us about that. Hmmmm. Polygamy is an abomination, and God never changes. The D&C section about polygamy was added many years after Joseph Smith was murdered. My opinion is that section was fabricated to support a practice men wanted and started. Hmmmm. The Book of Mormon and the D&C have had numerous changes since they were first printed. Things removed and things added. Even the Word of Wisdom has been altered. Hmmmm. The leaders do twist words to support their positions while ignoring the obvious hypocrisy.
If the LDS church had applied the principle Renlund speaks of from the beginning, we wouldn’t have all these contradicting doctrines. Renlund is actually right! I do believe that principle is taught in the Bible, though I don’t remember where. We can also recall Joseph Smith asking the Lord three times if Martin Harris could take the 116 pages of manuscript, and the devastating effect of refusing the Lord’s first answer. That’s not to say we shouldn’t pray about revelations, because we do need to know from God if they are actually from Him. But we should be looking for confirmation of truth, not seeking our own will when asking for answers, not asking for a different answer than one God already gave. Unfortunately, I think the church has done a lot of the latter.
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Nemo… you have an uncanny ability to share your thoughts without bringing anger… it’s quite commendable. It’s something i have yet to master when the church is brought up. Thank you for the hard work you do on behalf of those of us who feel like collateral damage.
My pleasure, I’m glad you find it helpful!
I concur.
I also understand your anger...let's continue to take care of our hearts and minds against these deceptive monsters...
@@byonnoyb they're both deceptive monsters and lost sheep 🐑 people like Nemo has the right idea try to save the lost sheep
I want to organize a counter protest with signs that say on one side those abused by the church and on the other side those still being abused by the church on the other. And stand between protesters and Mormons on conference day
Nailed it Nemo. Even when I was a full TBM this concept always drove me crazy. But it wasn't until after I left that I realized why and it's simply because what they say is the definition of double speak.
Renlund is on a roll with discouraging personal revelation. Good on you for calling him out.
Thank you! I think he needs to go back and study his scriptures!
The longer I’m away, the crazier and more convoluted it all sounds. 🤯
Same
Same. I was 40 years in this religion. All my questions and doubts I find were true concerns. They LIED to me every time. I'm So ANGRY!
Praying to the wind and empty sky! Handing over so much money, all my kids college money. Wasting SOOOOOO MUCH TIME! Yes. I'm angry.
Getting out was such a weight off of me.
@Kaylyn,
I agree 1,000,000%!
@@DQ_Mine I’m sorry. I truly understand. I was a devoted member for 65 years. RS Pres., gospel doctrine teacher, all of it. I choose to value the good things i brought out of the church and work at letting the rest of it go. Wishing you healing and a bright future. ❤️
Couldn’t agree more
reminds me of the mythical story of 2 monks both with the bad habit of smoking. The first goes to the abbot and asks if he can smoke during prayers and got a telling off for even considering it. The 2nd however gets a positive answer and praised for his faithfullness, The difference? The 2nd monk replied 'you asked if you could smoke whilst you prayed; i asked if I could pray while I smoked'
It all depends on how we ask the questions
...this reminds me of two monks who, separately, went to their pastor (viz., the bishop of the diocese) and the first asked, "Can I pray while I touch a little boy?"
And, the 2nd monk asked, "Can I touch a little boy while I pray?"
After much investigation (by coppers), they were BOTH thrown into Gaol (Jail), for being pedophiles while they smoked...er, prayed.
@@ahashdahnagila6884 Amen 🙏
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33
Smoking gun #8,319.
Short, succinct. I love these shorts Nemo.
Glad you like them!
Ditto!
These mental gymnastics win the gold medal!
Yep, a particularly solid routine this time!
So many contradictions and hypocritical statements from the leaders that it makes my head hurt. :(
Stop the indoctrination of children and the vulnerable! Run from this cult and old coots! Destroying life with crapola! Yes makes your head hurt.
It’s quite something!
Women have been weeping for nearly 200 years from polygamy. They don't care.
Uhhhh, polygamy has been a World-wide cultural practice for THOUSANDS of years. Mormons didnt invent it. Who cares? Men are just...here for us Ladies to use for a paycheck since Adam messed up the Bromance God had planned for the two of them to Garden and Animal-tend His little earth project.. 🤷 Pretty simple really. Plus, I'm not married, I WASTED my 20's on trying to be a 'Good Wife'. My single 30's and early 40's are teaching me 2 things. #1. Using womanly 'wiles' and simpering at a man so he'll pay for EVERYTHING while you get to sit around is Truly an Art-Form!!! #2. Having been Single for almost twice as long as married, I CANNOT stand a man around underfoot in day-to-day life. Don't know how y'all do it! If I were married, I would WANT him gone as much as possible!!
It’s a seducing doctrine… most men are ok with it since it benefits them, and don’t want to put themselves in the woman’s shoes. Not all thou
shara( grandma XXX-downline ) and katie price and there 5 kids in 1850-1920's~ would not agree with your comment as i suspect there bi's and yes samuel-M grate-gramp pissed them all off for putting farm/ranch and government/$$-4m-to-20m 1st over there marriage
modern day era bi's/polyamory/traid's like my uncle shouldn't feel unwelcome in the Christian/lds church there's not enough good reasons and or historical lds figures/marriage's existed, 1850-1920~ was polygamy and or monogamous marriage and 1950's ( David O mckay was the last/blessings, but that was for a Jewish/atheist convert couple that was already married years before joining ) was opposite and monogamous-only
also eurks me Nelson/leadership is a polly now technically he's only got one living wife but temple's/religion it counts and on the pulpit he's hypocrite as he isn't a true-monogamous marriage as defined by scientists/dictionary terminology
Amen Karen, God said in the Old Testament and Bofm, He doesn’t like it. Yes, it has happened throughout time, God NEVER wants it. It was allowed, not desired by God.
whenever I hear Elder Renlund talking somehow it always brings to mind a rusty old boat that is about to sink . . .
those guys are just cringe-worthy humans and self-richouous sheep of gloom! Run from the Cult!
He sounds like Chad Daybell.
The church’s stance on the importance of the nuclear family is what originally led me to research the church which led to my testimony going six feet under.
I am aromantic asexual. The doctrine I was taught my whole life is that I would need to be married and have multiple kids or I wouldn’t get to the highest level of heaven. And what I wasn’t taught, that I would have to share an already unwanted husband with other women.
If the church loves women, this wouldn’t be a thing at all
You should always pray about whether you should pray about something. If you get the answer that you can pray about something, then pray about that thing. But if you get the answer not to pray about that thing, then don't pray about that thing. Actually, it might be safer to pray about praying about praying about something. And then if.... you get the picture.
Oh my heck, LOL!
I’ve always had doubts about the church even as a kid it’s only recently that I’m actively involved in ex Mormon content and now I know why they told us and everyone active in the church not to consume it. Ex Mormon content simplifies and breaks down all the stuff the church tries so hard to complicate or completely hide. As a black member, this church is shit to us. It took the church WAY too long to allow black members to receive the priesthood it’s kind of crazy.
So it is okay for the current prophet to ask for revelation concerning things that have already been revealed, but not us. So we should just blindly accept whatever the current prophet says. Got it!
Oh wait, but we are asked to pray about the truth of the Book of Mormon even though that has already been revealed. I don't know, maybe they changed their minds on that one too.
It's almost like it's all just made up. But that can't be, it was already revealed to be true.
They are wiley. Evil. Devious.
It’s a fair point RE: praying about the Book of Mormon
You clearly have no capacity for personal revelation. You also don't seem to understand it. Once I received my own witness about the book of Mormon, that was the end of it. Nobody is asking me to ignore my original witness and ask again. Once I've received a witness that God has called and ordained his prophets, that's the end of it. I don't need to sit around wondering why the prophets aren't making the same decisions I would make. Your entire comment is a joke. Nobody "needs" to ask about polygamy because nobody is being asked to live it. It also doesn't make sense to ask about Polygamy when you haven't even done the spiritual groundwork to know if the book of Mormon is true or if Joseph Smith was even a prophet. Receiving answers isn't just about praying and getting the answer. You've got to study and learn. God's not going to fill an empty cup like yours.
@@toddbender3463 Virtue signal received!
@@toddbender3463what he said was referencing the video. Your comment proves you did not watch it.
I’m absolutely not sharing MY husband in heaven! He unexpectedly passed away last year. Polygamy was evil and always will be. Shame on “leaders” that make it seem normal.
Ah yes, but it did open up a lot of opportunity and options for variety in the recreational department for the duly "anointed" ones who were part of the in-crowd. Yes, you've got "the Lord's anointed," the self-appointed . . . and who knows? Next it may be the double-jointed.
The smile Renlund makes before he transitions to a different thought in General Conference unnerves me.
Yeah, it’s not great!
this bastard is evil. that's why.
Throughout the times we see that revelations are only a mere desire to adapt to the changes in society. The saying: God's doctrine is eternal, means, as long as there are no pressure or activism that demands the contrary.
Yep. It's funny how these "revaluations" only happen when the cult is under political/legal pressure to change something in their dogma. It never "just happens". There's ALWAYS some outside force pushing for a change. Sounds VERY convient to me! But then, I can think for myself too!
this expertly sums up the reason my shelf crumbled 20 years ago. Thanks Nemo!
My pleasure!
Great job Nemo. You’ve made really good points. Keep up the good work. 😊
Thanks!
Mormon sermons consist primarily in reminding members, who made open-ended covenants when they were too young and uniformed and blindsided to know what they were committing to, that they must keep all of those covenants as their leaders continuously discover or invent or elaborate them.
Church leadership is like a rancher who daily looks at his sheep, anticipating the next slaughter, wondering what new cuts of meat (together with appropriate advertising) could make him the most money.
Ahhh mormonism….the cognitive dissonance must be crushing, and the mental gymnastics exhausting….🥵 Great job Nemo…👏🏾.
It’s a form of burn out that causes many to leave, I’m convinced!
Yes it is extremely crushing and exhausting. The only way to get relief from the cognitive dissonance is to acknowledge the truth about the church.😊
@@touretteslife And then leave the corporation, and its demands far behind you…👍🏽
@KRMello Its broken many a shelf….💥
So all those mormons watching football on the sabbath are going to hell??? I think they're going to quit the LDS Church before they give up football.
I have been conditioned to when I see a new Nemo video, I click. I am never disappointed.
I hope to never disappoint!
Thank you for bringing this to light, I've argued this conundrum in hypocrisy for years and people just don't see it for what it is.
It’s deep in the heart of the church’s difficult relationship with authority and revelation
they dont want tosee it. it hurts too much. the GAs come off as phonies and hypocrites.
OK, so which church are you a member of _now,_ and how is that one supposedly "perfectly free" of the same, in your estimation?
I've been out since April, but the blatant teachings of false doctrine by the leaders (in particular; Nelson, Oaks, Renlund, Pearson, and Corbit) are highly disturbing to me... 😔
and they ought to be!
Oaks is still good. The others no so much
@@benzun9600sadly, not the case re: Oaks either. Untruth after untruth, he’s the king of no apologies… yet teaches everyone else to repent!
You forgot Bednar.
Just watching this now -- almost a year late. So well done! Seriously Brilliant!
We should collaborate sometime. Your work is fantastic.
You did great on this video. It is pretty enjoyable watching those leaders run about trying to salvage things in the face of common sense.
Thanks for that!
Ironically enough … when I left the church in 2016, I spent my Sundays hiking! I felt so much peace in nature that I hadn’t felt at church, I had only felt deep shame, guilt, and pretty severe depression every Sunday during and after church til the day ended each Sunday.
Jesus never said ONE WORD about attending church. But only, "Where two or three are gathered IN MY NAME, I am in the midst of them.". Really, think about what He said and what He meant then &, therefore, MEANS NOW. The blithering in the clip comes to nothing better than a threat. Low target. And worthy of its speaker.
Your videos are brilliant! Thank you, Nemo. 💙
My pleasure!
Good work bro! Keep the dialogue rolling.
These short clips on doctrinal inconsistency in modern Mormonism are really good. The way you break it down and present is wonderfully clear, and easy to understand.
Thanks!
Matt Johansson,
Have you looked at consciousness and evolution outside of the education system?
Just like we were mistaken about so many things historically like the shape of the earth, we have been mistaken about evolution, evolution has blinded humans from seeing reality as what it is. There's a continuum from "reality to fitness", the more tuned into fitness a species is, the less accurately that species sees reality as what it is.
We could always be misinterpreting our perception which includes church leaders, especially considering how we interpret the world is rooted in our own history and biases. I strongly agree with the cognitive scientists which explains why I can enjoy life even as one of the most severely disabled people in the UK. We're all responding to our perception, so I enjoying life is a result of how I reconstruct the world and respond to the perception I receive. Part of my perception is disability is not a bad thing, it is simply a difference of state.
An analogy scientists use is that evolution has given us a computer interface, we can see all the activity on the desktop, but the reality of that activity is inside the computer and we design different desktops to each other giving us an alternative perspective to others making us respond to the world differently.
I philosopher 200+ years ago said:
"Thoughts become perception, perception becomes reality.
Alter your thoughts, alter your reality."
So, by humans being blinded of reality by evolution, how can any of us know the 'truth'? As science isn't about truth anyway.
The biggest problem with praying for something is confirmation biased because basically the answer comes from within, in most cases
Nemo, you are brilliant! (as others have said of you.)
Thank you kindly!
This is so good. Thank you so much! I so wish you’d come lay down some hardcore critical thinking in my Sunday school.
Not always the best course of action though, gotta be sensitive when you’re in a shared space.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON like the rest of us, our leaders struggle for inspiration and how to communicate principles in a general way that will not apply to all of us individually or to every circumstance. Many who tried to follow Jesus later found it too difficult to understand or apply. Moses said it was simple to just look to God and live, and Adam when asked why he sacrificed said he didn’t know why but was just being obedient. God speaks through a prophet, people complain and cast them out.. Believers get criticized and persecuted . History repeats itself.
Excellent as ever Nemo!
Thanks Kelleren
It never went away, its right here now
Right! Totally tolerated by those in Utah
This is brilliant
Very well done Nemo.
Excellent research and presentation. Thank you.
Spot on Nemo. I like when you do a video like this. There's no getting around this, you covered it from multiple angels. One just have to recognise that it doesn't make sense
Thanks, I’m going to keep doing these sorts of videos in future!
Yep. Exactly, Nemo. There's more holes in the LDS church than swiss cheese, and so many contradictions within itself from doctrine, to policies, to messages from General Authorities.
I left the church 6 months ago because of church history. I've since realized how many things were confusing and didn't make any sense as a believing member. But as a non-believer, all of the anti-mormon explanations make perfect sense.
This church just gets crazier and crazier. It is mind boogling
"Good old Joseph Smith himself!" (with a picture of his face buried in a hat!) LMAO
Gotta make sure the real narrative is on show
This is one of the best videos Nemo has put out. It sums up my reasons for leaving the corporation behind.
Brilliant Nemo!
Thanks!
I believe poligamy is abusive and humiliating to women.
Yes
I’ll say it again. Nelson blows my f-ing mind! He’s all over the place 😵💫
It is probably a bad case of inspired dementia.
is there a video explaining why you choose to continue being a member of the church? genuinely curious
I'm using that talk at the beginning, because God already revealed His will in the Bible and so to use the Moroni 10:4 test is to ask God for a different answer than He already gave.
Least favorite talk of all time! Seriously!!!
Mine was when Oaks said, even if the PH Leader is wrong we are to continue on
Excellent, as always. Love your channel!
Thanks!
If they bring it back I'm joining !!!
Thanks Nemo. This was very illuminating.
♦"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."
♦"Only fools revere the myths just bc a book claims itself to be the holy truth."
♦"The delusional religious fools are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt."
♦"The religious believe by the millions what lunatics could believe on their own."
♦"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
♦"It's difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
Thank God for the parable of the Wheat and Tares,thank thee so much mi Heavenly Father.
Why do you thank God for that parable? What does that parable mean to you?
Why do you think that parable relates to this video?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
@@NEMOTHEMORMONLMAO
I was taught in the 60's and 70's that polygamy would be brought back because it's an eternal law.
Thanks Nemo. You help me feel less crazy.
💙 Awesome!
Thanks!
Brilliant!
Excellent video!
Cheers!
Excellent video. Very concise and to the point. Renlunds talk was extremely dangerous
Thanks!
Polygamy is back stronger than ever
So good!
Thanks!
Excellent points Nemo
Great video. Your editing is fenomenal. Amazing job Nemo 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thank you!!
it definitely gets crazier over time.
Excellent 👏👏👏
I’m glad you enjoyed it!!!
I won't be able to watch these any more. It is too upsetting. Those wicked men, speaking with evil tones. Horrible, disgusting! I listened to every, EVERY general conference for 40 years. Those voices stab me in the heart with all their smug lies and manipulations.
I’m sorry you won’t be able to watch, but take care of yourself!
finding out about the church and its lies and deception is really hard.
This is the best argument against polygamy yet. Thank you.
If it's conflicted, it disproves itself.
Well done with this, but I'd have approached it from a slightly different perspective. For instance, we are asked to pray about the church being true and to rely on our witness, change our life, and do whatever other sacrifices may be required to join or repent. But once in now, we are being told that we are not fully capable of obtaining answers for ourselves and that there are only some things we can pay about. It seems as though we are being told to relinquish our ability to choose freely for ourselves and that we should seed our will to the leaders. I've really had a problem with this talk. It also contradicts scripture and other leader's comments. From my perspective, it does seem a bit cultish. "Yes, pray to know the church is true, ok now don't pray, you're not capable, we'll tell you what to do"
Thanks for the great job and video.
How long will they be able to go on that way? How long will there be members who avoid to think but obey, because they were told to do so?
This is good stuff
@Nemo the Mormon
Are you still an ACTIVE member of the LDS church? If so:
1) How is it that you haven’t been excommunicated, disfellowshipped or whatever from the church?
2) And, given your critiques of church history and church leaders, what motivates you to stay In the church and not leave it?
Yes!
1) My charm and my whit… (I seriously have no idea)
2) As my recent actions have shown, I’m pretty sure I can make some impact and improve the church by not just abandoning my people!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON
Haha. The fact that you haven't been excommunicated raises my respect for the LDS church a bit. You have my prayers, and best wishes in your endeavors... I share your care and empathy for the welfare of your people (though not an LDS myself).
The first crack in my shelf came when the guy with the God complex became God’s prophet.
Yeah, that’ll do it!
This is extremely well done!
Thank you!
"Stay sweet, pray and obey." Words of Warren Jeffs, just another crazy. Also, wondering if you are still a member and why?
God bless you all. 🙏 Santo Santo Santo es el señor Dios todopoderoso
"Just ignore everything and anything any other prophet ever said before, and just do whatever *I* tell you to do now!"
Well, we might as well just burn our scriptures then, since apparently they can be superseded at any time!
It just proves what a bunch of BS it all is!
Great video Nemo. Prs. Monsen was a few years into Alzheimer's's as well at this time.. I do not understand why he was not released for health reasons.....
Nemo, I’m curious about your thoughts on those in the church who believe that Joseph and Hyrum did not teach or practice polygamy. Have you studied this out or have any thoughts on it?
Or how David Whitmer testified that Joseph Smith came to him saying polygamy was wrong and a mistake… David Whitmere’s Declaration To All Believers in Christ saved my faith in the Book of Mormon, because I was so confused how Joseph Smith’s revelation could contradict scripture and cause soooo much pain (I’m 4 generations from polygamy on both sides of my parents).
I'm so sorry but you may not receive this comment as the LDS have restricted my ability to respond to anythig LDS ... I was LDS for 30 yrs .. and I am glad to be an Ex Communicated member of the church of the LDS ..
You could argue that nothing changed in 1978 - The blood of Cain were considered unworthy to receive the priesthood according to the church up until then - all worthy makes were already allowed to hold the priesthood. The 1978 revelation does not say the the blood of Cain are now worthy and we have a repeat of the lost pages.
Don’t even need to pray! I Know it is Not for me. I want a one woman man. I follow my Holy Spirit..Not the opinions of men or women. And the only purpose of a prophet was in the OT..to lead the people BEFORE Jesus Gave us the Holy Spirit and to prophesy of Jesus Coming. Jesus is ALL you Need.
The holy spirit will never mislead a surrendered heart ❤. Thank you 😊
@@CalebConsecrated I agree! May God Bless You.
Would it be possible for you to add links to the books you are citing please. For example, Intelligence etc. So grateful!
awesome logic
Thank you!
"Fasting and Prayer" to an apostle means "let's skip lunch until after we meet."
Regarding all the complaints about the Church's leadership. I have no complaints with any of the General authorities words, past or present. I take it all in stride. If something makes no sense, I set it aside. If it fits, I attach it. I was twenty six when I was converted. So I spent the first twenty six years of my life utterly cut off from a knowledge that God is real, from the power of the Priesthood, the comfort of the Holy Ghost, from all scripture and membership in the Church. I was denied all of it. But I don't grumble, nor am I bitter to any degree. I am just glad to be remembered by God and taken from the pit. And I reckon that my path is wisdom in God. I don't seek to leverage fault. But rather, I look for understanding instead of riding a fault like a vehicle to a rash conclusion, and leave truth behind simply to cause harm. And so it is all a matter of personal motivation and what is in our hearts as to whom we serve, be it our God or the Devil.
Russell Nelson talks about Thomas Monson receiving the 2015 "revelation" but wasn't Thomas Monson incapacitated with dementia by then?
I can’t say for certain, but I’ve heard that!
How can members not feel confused?
The absurdity of the phrase “follow the prophet” is “revealed”.
You make some very good points Nemo. So what can e concluded? Well many will say the LDS Church is not to be believed. Others may say that Joseph Smith should be believed but not the modern leaders. And still others will say modern day prophets are to be followed over previous ones even Joseph Smith.
It would seem the leadership of the LDS Church has embraced the last of the three I mentioned above. This would be the wisest choice but only if modern day prophets had the same power to speak with God or Jesus as Joseph Smith claimed.
As a member of this Church I have to be honest and state that I do not think modern day leaders or presidents/prophets/apostles since the time of Joseph Smith himself have been as inspired or favored by God.
So the Church is kind of in limbo and waiting for Joseph Smith’s true successor to be revealed. The guys currently leading it are like the judges who judged Israel after Moses/Joshua and did so until the next true prophet appeared. (Samuel)That’s what I am waiting for.
Verse 30 is not a loophole, for those still concerned about it. (For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.)
Christ IS raising up people unto him RIGHT NOW as Jacob speaks. Jacob 2:25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord: I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, THAT I MIGHT RAISE UP UNTO ME a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
“THESE THINGS” refers to the ancient abominations as referenced several times in the same chapter.
14 And now, my brethren, do ye suppose that God justifieth you in THIS THING? Behold, I say unto you, Nay. But he condemneth you, and if ye persist in THESE THINGS his judgments must speedily come unto you.
21 Do ye not suppose that SUCH THINGS are abominable unto him who created all flesh?
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of THE THINGS which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done THESE THINGS which ye ought not to have done.
So what the verse is saying is: Since I’m raising up seed unto me, I need to warn you about all this or you’ll practice the same abominations they did anciently.
If one is still not convinced of the context here, include verse 31 which is a continuation of verse 30, joined by “FOR” (or because). It’s the reason for his warning. The same things/abominations were being practiced in Jerusalem, one of the things Lehi likely had to preach against, and one of the reasons he had to leave.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
Here's a thought that I have had a lot lately: In 44 AD it was Church policy that non-Jews that were male that joined Christianity had to be circumcised first. This was done by revelation and by Church Council. Church Councils were part of Christianity from the beginning. So why is it just revelation without Councils? Constanine delivered the Nicene Creed through Council because that was what was started by Peter, and James in the First Century.
You are spot on! Personal revelation and prayer are a must. Satan teaches a person to not pray. Hmmm. Personal revelation is fine as long as it agrees with the church. Example: Nephi killing Laben (direction thru personal revelation), yet there's a commandment against killing. I asked some friends what would they do if they received such a contradictory answer. "You're listening to the wrong spirit". Hmmm. Don't question the prophet today, just obey him, even if he says something contrary to previous prophets. Obey today's prophet without question. Isn't that putting man above Christ? Isaiah warned us about that. Hmmmm. Polygamy is an abomination, and God never changes. The D&C section about polygamy was added many years after Joseph Smith was murdered. My opinion is that section was fabricated to support a practice men wanted and started. Hmmmm. The Book of Mormon and the D&C have had numerous changes since they were first printed. Things removed and things added. Even the Word of Wisdom has been altered. Hmmmm. The leaders do twist words to support their positions while ignoring the obvious hypocrisy.
If the LDS church had applied the principle Renlund speaks of from the beginning, we wouldn’t have all these contradicting doctrines. Renlund is actually right! I do believe that principle is taught in the Bible, though I don’t remember where. We can also recall Joseph Smith asking the Lord three times if Martin Harris could take the 116 pages of manuscript, and the devastating effect of refusing the Lord’s first answer. That’s not to say we shouldn’t pray about revelations, because we do need to know from God if they are actually from Him. But we should be looking for confirmation of truth, not seeking our own will when asking for answers, not asking for a different answer than one God already gave. Unfortunately, I think the church has done a lot of the latter.
God also gave clear revelation about false Prophets. Apostles and Churches. Funny how the church avoids that topic
Polygamy has never left church.. It is practiced in the temple
PTSD ALERT: That conference tone is the worst. 😵💫
Thank you