Live Audiophile Roundtable: Steve Hoffman's Steely Dan AJA Review & Shootout. AP, Cisco, OG, OG CD!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- "Welcome to the ultimate audiophile roundtable discussion! Join us as we delve into the timeless masterpiece, Steely Dan's 'AJA,' in a comprehensive review and shootout led by the renowned mastering engineer Steve Hoffman. In this video, we'll explore the significance of this iconic album, compare various versions including the AP, Cisco, OG, and OG CD, and uncover the nuances that make each version unique.
As we dissect the sonic intricacies of 'AJA,' we'll uncover the subtle differences in sound quality, mastering, and overall listening experience, providing valuable insights for audiophiles and music enthusiasts alike. Whether you're a seasoned collector or a newcomer to the world of high-fidelity audio, this discussion promises to be an enlightening journey into the art of music reproduction.
Join the conversation by sharing your thoughts and experiences with different versions of 'AJA' in the comments below. Let's engage in a lively exchange of ideas and opinions, and together, we'll celebrate the magic of this timeless album.
Don't miss out on this exclusive opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of 'AJA' and elevate your audiophile experience. Hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications to stay updated with our latest discussions on all things audiophile, Steely Dan, and album reviews.
Get ready to immerse yourself in the world of high-fidelity sound - let's embark on this captivating journey together!"
#AudiophileRoundtable #SteveHoffman #SteelyDanAJAReview #AlbumShootout #AudiophileCommunity #MusicReviewDiscussion #High-fidelityAudio #SteelyDanFanbase #OGCDComparison #AudioEquipmentComparison #MusicListeningExperience #AnalogVs #High-qualityAudioReproduction #AudiophileCulture #MusicEnthusiastDiscussion
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Here is what Steve posted about his conclusion's from our show:
Quickly, now that the broadcast is over, these are my quick thoughts on AJA vinyl.
The original 1977 AB cut by Bernie sounds fine. The original 1977 AB with B scratched out and A written in sounds fine.
The 1978 AA recut was NOT cut by Bernie, doesn't sound like his work to me at all. It is also fine, more subdued than the AB, more like the actual tape. Made from the ABC cutting master, I'm bettin'..
The CISCO MUSIC version is my favorite. Respecting the original mix with added sparkle. Would be my go-to version if I cared.
The Analogue Productions 45 version I didn't care for. Bass was shaved a bit too much, upper mids a bit too hard and top a bit too bright. Too far from the original sound of the original mix for me.
My old MCA CD version sounds accurate to the tape, but I think the vinyl versions mentioned above sound better, more neat vinyl colorations making the music flow in a good way. The magic of well-cut vinyl.
As far as I understand it, all international versions including Canadian red vinyl) were made from copies of the production master (ABC Cutting Master).
Hope this helps.
ON MY SYSTEM, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ANYTHING SOUNDS LIKE ON YOUR SYSTEM.
ON MY SYSTEM, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ANYTHING SOUNDS LIKE ON YOUR SYSTEM.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion!
Just my opinion!
Is the Cisco release the same as the 30th anniversary?
@@fhuetter yes the Cisco is the 30th anniversary cut limited to 10,000.
Great job Steve, a very fun entertaining interview. Steve Hoffman is a treasure.
Thanks Scott. Much appreciated. It's always a blast when Steve H comes on. Have a good weekend.
Most fun I've ever had in a live chat. Thanks to both Steves....PERSONALLY....My take away is after 37 copies of the same album on CD,Reel,Cass,8 Track and Vinyl...is I love AJA. I brought my Hoffman cd to work today after listening to it in the car. I love that cd. Always have....and had NO IDEA it was a Hoffman. Got it in the Columbia Music club so it has the BMG in lieu of a barcode. Sounds AMAZING. I love the Cisco, but only have a reel to reel of it, but its sound is amazing...especially on reel at 7 1/2 speed. I bet a 15 speed version would slay as well. I was hoping UHQR would do one, but not yet anyway. I also personally only have the UHQR of Aja and Gaucho, but man do they sound amazing. I have humble 70s equipment except for my cd player which is also basic from 1990 or so. But it's the sound I want and chase, and yes I have an Equalizer and USE IT. I am from Detroit originally and worked at record stores, and as a roadie and concert photographer, and chase the live sound I love so much. My 70s Pioneer reverb box gets HEAVY use too. I LOVE reverb to make it more live sounding. It's all opinion gang, just like I also love SLAYER. What you like and how you play it is what makes this so much fun.
Thanks for tuning in. Always a blast when Steve H visits the Audiophile Roundtable.
Wow, really couldn't disagree with Steve more.
Hoffman's totally right! I have an EQ and tweak things. I respect mastering engineers that leave the master alone. I have the AA pressing and a simple Schiit Loki EQ tweak makes the record shine in my system and more importantly to my ears.
I found this piece of information years ago and kept it regarding Aja... Here is some information on the original ABC Pressing of
Steely Dan's 'Aja'...
The first issue was released as AB 1006.
The AB signified an ABC LP with a list price of $6.98.
AA meant an ABC LP with a list of $7.98.
Every single copy of this album with catalog # AA 1006 was manufactured after AB 1006 went out of production...after the list price was raised.
It was ABC's standard procedure to use the album's prefix and stock(plus other info) in the deadwax of their records. Therefore all original LP issues of AB 1006 will have AB 1006 in the deadwax.
All later LP issues of AA 1006 will have AA 1006 in the deadwax.
However, in order to avoid throwing out a bunch of perfectly good metalwork with AB 1006 already etched in it, some of the earliest pressings of stock # AA 1006 have the prefix changed in the deadwax. The B was crossed out, and an A was added in front to change AB to AA.
Eventually all the metal parts made from the original AB 1006 lacquers were replaced with parts made from later cuttings with AA 1006 etched in them from the start.
I own AA AB1006 Cisco and of course UHQR just as said by Steve Hoffman the system this vinyl Remaster pressing are playing on colouring the soundstage.
My system 2x Rotel' monoblocks rb-870bx tt Luxman PD277 Ortofon 2M black with kappa 8s
My system honest set-up with a very neutral range within a 80 db soundstage overall quality...
To my ears the UHQR is completely different from every other pressing in very positive way.
The fact the instrument separation gives a nice resolution bass certainly not lacking moving forward into the room more 3D elements especially vocals and drums.
I'm huge fan of the show Steve Hoffman gives very interesting mission statement the Cisco to me it's very good soundstage overall quality UHQR has so much more to listen to nuances I've simply never heard bringing a comprehensive listen like it was the first listen.
Not one other copy can manage this phenomenon.
Didn't tune in, but am watching rn! Thanks for what I am sure is a great discussion!
Great, now you forced me to dust off the LP and give Aja a listen. Man the Phelan guy who wrote the liner notes what a kook😮😊 His interpretation of Josie alone plus Leo Sayer?😮😅. Everyone else hear those street noises on Peg? Is kinda fun switching R-L-Rev-ST-M on the ol Sherwood and having Mikey move around the room. I guess I have the AA version is that good?..
Great topic dang rabbithole, not sure of the 77 'test pressing' LP, but sure looks like the "superior quality" Remaster CD's Ca. 99 was fed thru a new 98 LP laquer, and add some Sansui/RIAA type "coloring" and after the "Ortofon'd" Mofi versions. For "Which is better Digital or Analog?", just based on this Aja rundown, could be neither/both or "trick question"😊 My listening on LP was via an AudioTechnica cartridge, if that matters but Ortofons had better vibration control for players where Reciever forgot to add low cutoff and if player was being bounced around, pretty tough😊
How could anyone forget the CS&N "Southern Cross", which if less than 33ft could not be considered as a Yacht ha!. So it was Steve who was responsible for the MCA pre 85 releases😮 To be fair, the early 90's MCA Steely Dan Greatest Hits "improved" and sounds good. Of course to hold me over I had to pick up a cassette version of AJA cuz it had Josie. Whatever mastering was done for the Rhino Have A Nice Day/Radio Daze series should be the standard. Whenever I am on the fence, if it says "Grundman" or "Sterling" it be good. Even the 1st gen Columbia early 80's 25-AP-XX sound great. For LP's Good LP player + Good RIAA stage + Gruv Glide + Good Ground +rumble filter =❤ #davidcrosbyscat #timothybschmit
Great video. Always interesting to hear Steve Hoffman's thoughts on these releases.
Thanks Fred. Now we all will have to revisit our MFSL Cds. lol.
@@stevewestman7774 Haha! And our MoFi copies of Candy-O.
Really interesting show. I find the round table spends all the time discussing pressings and we don’t know what everyone is playing those on or room settings. Mazzy does talk through his system and you can see his rooms. Hana P8 Aria Hegel and big B&Ws. I know Steve W has a P6 - that’s it.
For me, on my system, both the AB and the AA sound fantastic so I have never upgraded. Still impresses when I drop the needle every time. Fantastic and interesting discussion. Thanks Steve.
Note: wasn’t there a controversy about Deacon Blues SQ being muddy and cut at lower volume? Can anyone enlighten?
Great session, thanks both. Made me doubly happy that I have the Cisco Aja especially since the AP 45rpm boxes are unaffordable in the UK at typically £200. More than I'm prepared to pay for a single album not helped by the ott packaging. Steve Hoffman also reminded me that I still have a small stack of the mofi gold cd's. I dug them out and indeed many still sound remarkably good, notably James Taylor's 'Dad Loves His Work', Clapton's 'Slowhand', Bob Marley & The Wailers 'Catch A Fire',. Less so Joe Jackson's 'Night & Day' but Impex are doing great things with his albums.
The UHQR has Different to mid with topend resolution more open transparent some might say.
To me the bass sounds more accurate when the kick drum hits. You can define the bass on the Cisco this more of a harmonic congestion.
If you chase accuracy speed with 3D elements especially vocals and drums panning dead quiet flat vinyl
The UHQR is worth every penny .
I'm Australian @ $280 it wasn't cheap I took blind faith sorry if have thrown a cat amongst the pigeons.
Get the universal reissue of Aja, it’s still remastered by Bernie but transferred to dsd before going on to vinyl. It’s no slouch I’ll tell ya, you’ll be very pleased if you give it a try!
Did you mean Intervention's reissues of some of Joe's catalog? Those are fantastic! Best pressings across the board...
Thank you for another very fun discussion with Steve W. and Steve H. Why is it no one mentions the sound quality of the 12" 45 RPM (radio DJ) singles released in the late 1970s of Aja, Deacon Blues and Josie?
Regarding the future interviews with Steve H. please pick his brain about his knowledge of specific vintage Capitol Records, Liberty, RCA Victor and other budget label (TOPS, Somerset (Stereo Fidelity, etc.) pressings from the late 1950s and early 1960s. As many of us are looking for vintage recordings and not the recent reissue. Steve H. has quite a knowledge base and the more of the knowledge that can be transferred to us the better.
Thanks for watching. Maybe we do a sequel to this in the future. Stay tuned.
First time I’ve seen Hoffman on anything and I have to say he comes across as a contrarian know it all who gets a lot wrong. Panic In Detroit is on Aladdin Sane. Cry For A Shadow and Ain’t She Sweet was recorded by Bert Kaempfert in a gymnasium in Hamburg, June 61. Nothing to do with Abbey Road. I agree it sounds very good. On the plus side, I have his AAA version of Hounds of Love which is spectacular.
GREAT show!
Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie
Much appreciated.
If you want to confirm if the AA was mastered/cut by Bernie, just check out the way the handwriting style on the numbering, particularly the 2s, 6s & 7s. Compare them with a US pressing of MJ’s thriller, since Bernie did not sign off his name back then. 😅
I don’t have Thriller - just curious, what style did Bernie sign his 2s, 6s and 7s?
@@jeffreysobczynski7113 he has a particular angle on the lower half of his 2s & the upper half of his 7s while the 6s have particular curvature….just do comparisons of some of his work before he started signing off….
@@gfy4476plot thickens..How did Bill Schnee write his 7's?
Hello everyone,
please allow me to take this opportunity
my impression of the AP 45 RPM
to express.Steve Hoffman is of course right, especially when it comes to the low end.Unfortunately, Steve is pretty much the only one who brings this up.
I have to go even further with my modest perception.Because the record is considered as one of the best sounding Records of all times. I don't compare them with each other, but with some excellently balanced LPs from this Time, because then it becomes clearer that the UHQR is drastically lacking in low- and for me also in the top -end.
Chad Kassem and his performance are probably a gift from heaven for all of us and Bernie Grundman is a kind of god in that regard, but as far as that record goes, for me it's kind of like getting a bike without the rear wheel and the front wheel, the frame and all the attachments in the middle are excellent, the paint is also wonderful, but it's still useless because you can't drive it.Unfortunately for me it is anything but a listening pleasure.
Thank you very much
I use just like Steve Hoffman mostly Audio Note UK gear. I come actually to the same conclusion. On my channel I posted today a comparison video between the two releases
The original MCA CD (what people call the Hoffman...it's still not entirely clear) is miles above the AP SACD/new download to my ears. That one sounds sparkly and clean the first the first time you hear it, but the old one just sounds more like it should.
I always enjoy seeing and hearing Steve. Such a pleasure. But please no more Aja, Dark Side of the Moon talk, its way way way overdone. Led Zeppelin too its been talked about to death.
I’ve never been so confused. Aa Mca was the budget cut. I’ve had it and thought it was thin sounding compared to the ab
FWIW, Mike Esposito on his recent Q&A very PASSIONATELY spoke out about how absolutely horrible eco vinyl is. He said it is the worst formulation, it's noisy, it has a narrower soundstage, it is more compressed. He said that it had absolutely no redeeming values.
Yeah same guy that caved in after having crowned the Cisco Aja as the best he'd ever heard previously but then declared the AP UHQR the new "king"
@@LetThereBeSound1 It's almost like people change their mind when they experience better things. Who would have guessed?
@@intothevoid9831 or if that result helps them more financially. One never knows who to trust. Call me crazy but I prefer to trust the mastering engineer that has heard the actual master tape.
I have an eco vinyl record by Shellac-Steve Albinis band and it plays absolutely flawless. No noise whatsoever. So maybe it’s case by case….
@@LetThereBeSound1 He hasn’t heard the master tape since 1984. If you want to talk about conflict of interest, lets talk about Steve H glorifying the CD that HE mastered.
Am I remembering correctly but I think Chad mentioned in an interview that there were about 6 to 7 test pressings done?
I bought CDs when they first arrived and still have some of the first. Olivia Newton John Greatest Hits, Steve Winwood Back in the High Life, Elton John GH. Slim pickings back then.
You like the sound of them?
Back then, yes. CDs were such a marvel. Dead quiet. Skip songs without a needle drop. The CD section was maybe two rows in a bin while records still dominated but you could watch the transition on a weekly basis. And they all came in those long boxes to avoid theft. I was an absolute convert but I held my vinyl. So many didn’t.
EJ's 76-86 MCA sounded great
Since Steve Hoffman unfortunately did not listen to the "Aja" version that came from Better Records I wonder
how Steve Westman would rate that version in comparison to the others.
Between my AB and the Better Records AB with the B scratched out no audible difference. Same plates used. The Cisco is a tiny bit more bass friendly. Kevin used an AB 1006 as his reference when cutting the Cisco 30th Anniversary pressing. All 3 sound great. Now I need to go and find a AA cut to compare.
My opinion:
although Steve’s description of the differences in EQ are absolutely comprehensible and the Cisco sounds more “connected, dense, round”, however we want to call it, I think he comes from the original mix as “the truth” and as a mastering engineer he’s extremely sensible to in his eyes not completely optimal EQ’ing.
So although the UHQR might sound a little pimped in comparison, every other characteristic than the little more obvious EQ’ing sounds far better from the UHQR. So much so, that everyone whose setup is ok with its EQ’ing, should prefer the UHQR imo.
But…if you have it…never sell your Cisco…there will be moods when you’ll choose it.
Thanks Steve W for this. A little bit disappointed honestly because I dont think Steve Hoffman did a comprehensive review on the UHQR. He did not do what you asked him to do with lots of time in advance. Looks like he does not like Bernie Grundman at all. That is my impression. The only song that was mentioned was Peg and I think a serious review deserved more comparisons by song. This did not happen. The only thing that I agree with Steve Hoffman is when he said it was his opinion based on his equipment. He recognized he needed to listen more the UHQR. And of course he was praising his CD whenever he could :) It is very disappointed also that he is not aware of what is going on in the industry. He does not know about the lacquering system that Bernie Grundman has today or the one that Kevin Gray built. He even did not know how much an UHQR cost. Honestly Hoffman is really outdated for me. IMHO. Please invite Bernie Grundman to your channel and comment to him what Hoffman said. That will be interesting.
“Honestly Hoffman is really outdated for me”
I don’t know who you are but you are absolutely hilarious! WTF?!!!
@@LetThereBeSound1 is he wrong though? Guy didn’t even know what a UHQR cost. These things have been around for years, the guy is out of the loop.
He is totally biased. The best Aja for him is his CD. There are no Steve Hoffman masters on vinyl that I could remember are really good. Yes Fragile that he did 15 years ago was discarded in recent reviews compared to Original UK, Mofi One Step and the most recent Kevin Gray cut. Tough luck. Hoffman is certainly overrated.
@@intothevoid9831 it is his opinion but of course he’s wrong. C’mon now. No need for personal insults just because you are butt-hurt he didn’t choose the pressing you like. It is not only childish but disrespectful.
In @@jptabja’s expert opinion.
I am sure this opinion carries a lot of weight inside your own head. Congratulations!
The Hoffman CD sounds so much better than the CD layer on the AP SACD. Exactly as Steve described it. Lightweight bass and bright treble. When you play one after the other it’s really jarring.
"Panic in Detroit" on Diamond Dogs? Anyway, good video.
I didn't catch that live.
The MoFi is really bad ! My $20 AA blows it away!
I agree. Anybody who actually likes the MoFi either hasn’t heard better and assume it’s the best, has a bad system, or is coping because of how much they spent on it
CD’s were NOT $15.00 in 1982. They were anywhere from $25.00 to $40-50.00 for some Japan imports. I know, I was there in the beginning and bought them. I doubt they were more money in the NYC area, but Steve, no they weren’t $15-20 until the late 80’s.
I agree with you, They were around $25 on average. $20 was as cheap as they got but that was rare. $25 and above for dual disc releases is what I remember at the beginning. They came down $15 - $20 range in the late 80's
@@LetThereBeSound1 They were expensive! Even at Crazy Eddie or Tower Records they were the same price. I can still remember buying the first Japan Black Triangles of Abbey Road and Tattoo You, and they were like $34.99 when released. I used to get a mail order flyer from Jem Imports to order from and they were just as much or more. The first Japan VDP ‘Aja’ and Night Ranger ‘Midnight Madness’ on CBS/Sony were like over $40 apiece in 1983.
As far as ‘Aja’ goes, I still like the MCA Steve Hoffman mastering on CD. Seems to sound most correct on my rig. The Cisco LP is great, and the ABC AB and AA are different but for me even his CD works best for me. Did he say if he used the original master mixes for that CD, or the EQ’d copy tapes? Curious.
My take is Hoffman chose the pressing that sounds more like the master tape than the one that sounds the best. He doesn't like it when other mastering engineers make eq choices, only he is allowed to do that. According to mastering engineers (including Steve when its convenient) most master tapes need work, the finished product sounds nothing like the master tape. Hoffman has people believing in the flat transfer BS. The vast majority of those original pressings we know and love are not flat transfers. See how he criticized Candy-0 saying how he did it better. He previously said that Kevin and Bernie were the best. Bull. over the years he has criticized Bernie Grundman constantly saying everything he did was bright. He wanted to criticize Kevin Gray so badly but kept covering it up when he let something slip. In his mind only he can master an album correctly. So, he thinks 45 rpm is a waste. They were great when he was doing them. Has anyone noticed how condescending he is toward his forum members. He thinks they are stupid for buying remastered work that wasn't done by him. Read between the lines people. There’s a reason why no one will hire him.
A lot of good points here. Some flat transfers sound good, some don't. A good example is the DVDs on the Jethro Tull book sets - all are flat transfers. Some sound great (Passion Play) and others are quite lacking (Too Old to Rock n Roll) and one is unlistenable (Songs from the Wood).
But many on the forum will tell you these transfers are all definitive without really listening.
And yeah, Steve is hypocritical in that he chooses all these flat transfers as they best while most of his own work is excessively futzed with. Are those five tube layers really helping?
Maybe Sony, dont pay 1 billion just for the catolog, but for the rights so they can A.I new material in the vain of Queen. I certainly hope not, but its the only way it makes sense. Oh, and nice to see Steve back gain.
I hope that also includes Freddie's and Brian's solo endeavors...
Pablo Cruise is yacht rock. Steely Dan is NOT yacht rock.
Anything which features a #lyricon automatic Yacht Rock. I would attend a Don Fagen concert if I knew Don would rock a Yamaha Lyricon synth😊. Of course, being that Steely Dan east coast I always considered YR as "So Cal Sound" cuz of the ol' Warner palm tree label, Nicolette Larson, Bish, John Stewart, Doobs, etc. Pablo Cruise is definitely "So Cal"
The audio on this video is terrible.
The amount of fuss over this crappy album is hilarious, audiophiles are insane
Hell. i love the album and I'm a bit of an audiophool myself but the fact that a bunch of people are going to run out and buy the same pressing that they all said sucked for years is beyond hilarious...
Audiophiles are definitely insane and I speak as a member of this mad club but…Aja is great.
Apparently it's a better album than you'd like to think, or else people wouldn't be fussing over it. 😉 It's a masterpiece. 😁
I feel bad that your music taste is so poor. Get help soon.
Crappy! Funniest and most inaccurate assessment I've ver heard! Yet, I have the feeling you're just trolling.