NAILED IT. Imagine a game where you jump a boom or a slow ass Bison normal on a read and you're still the one being mixed because there's no risk/reward for the opponent mashing a basically auto-timed tap parry afterward as soon as they see you go airborn so you have to consider foregoing your full combo jump-in for an empty-jump throw instead. What a fun game that sounds like.
@@Xtremeism316 you can’t get an anti air combo from a AAPP, that’s not a mechanic in SF6. If you PP an air attack you won’t have enough plus frames to get a clean hit
The fact that you have to decide to go for that throw when you read what would be a full combo punish in any other game is what’s dumb as hell. And even then that’s a guess, who tf wants to guess again when you already guessed right on the fireball/normal you jumped?
@@charlieharrington9555 Did you watch the video? They get a clean punish counter and get carried to the corner to throw loop. When this game is all about the throw loop mix up.
If they have to have perfect parry in the game, it should be frame 1 perfect. When ppl PP my jump ins and I specifically delay the button press and they still get a PP I am like... WTF!? If I press early mid or late they get that PP... smh!
Annoyingly how late or early you're pressing doesn't really change the timing tbh, it's always just gonna be times based on when the jump in actually connects which will still be basically the same. Tbh I think you're on to something by pointing this out. The window to pp fireballs is less easy to account for the fact that they are easier overall to pp because the fireball is moving into your character, maybe anti air parry should use the same logic
This is one of the main reasons why I preferred V-shift to PP. With V-shift, you couldn't punish jump-in normals or lights. The biggest problem with PP in my opinion is that it leaves you way too plus. Aside from specific high-recovery moves, most of the time V-shift just gave you a V-break punish and reset to neutral, rather than corner carry into oki into throw loop into ggs.
Thing is, I personally really like how aa perfect parry interacts with safejumps, it adds a nice layer of complication to what usually is autopilot. Idk how you could change it without axing that. Maybe aa perfect parries force the jumping opponent to the ground faster so you are left +1 or 2, you don't get a punish but you can start pressure.
I would say perfect parry anti airs exist for an issue that capcom refuses to address. Strong jump ins and arial approaches which are almost impossible to anti airs with normals
I agree and I hope they just make it so that normal jump attacks can’t be perfect parried. I think to balance they can make it so you get a ton of drive back for using it as a way to recover drive.
@@charlieharrington9555 Their superior spacing, neutral game, and footsies set them apart from the rest. He's right that it feels pretty chaotic, but Capcom intentionally designed it that way to strike a balance and attract more players to Street Fighter.
Its definitely super confusing to me when it happens against a zoner where your supposed to get a hard read jump in over a projectile and u get PP AA'd
I think they could change that jump in heavy button's deny Parry completely and just punish counter hit through it, acting like you got hit during a regular fireball jump-in or mistimed button etc. That idea comes from someone who abuses Anti-Air PP. It is actually bad for me, because it became a bad habit now, and it is hard to get out of the system in pressure situations. Instead of regular DP, I fall back on parry attempts, and that somehow settled in my head. Make it impossible to PP Jump ins, and it will be flushed out of my head sooner or later.
If you remove the dive kick treat from Cammy you strip her of her signature move and she becomes useless, her spin knuckle is super unsafe just like her spiral arrow and she is only left with the option to whiff punish or aa, so if you want that you should just go and play SF1.
Its okay when its on a character, if that's here thing then that's fine. Just another totally different thing when literally even good jumps turn to guesses that can put me in the corner lol
This was like in the old era.. a LOT of players (myself included) couldn't stand parry as a mechanic.. so we didn't play 3S. We played CvS2 instead.. a game that allowed you to set up DOMINATING control over someone. 3S wound up being a pretty stable game.. but at the time it kinda wasn't. Back then, CvS2 was STABLE. Like.. if you're not withing 5% skill range, you have ZERO chance of beating me. And yeah.. a lot of players prefer that kind of game.
For most circumstances if your opponent is able to PPAA you, they could have just DP'd instead. So you as the person jumping deserve whatever happens. You jumped wrongly and ate some sort of punish. This has been the case since SF2. You didn't even have safe jumps in that game - because depending on what version you were playing Ken's DP hit on frame 1 and was fully invulnerable. As for SF6, I don't love the PPAA but if you think your opponent is likely to do it empty jump into throw or even better command throw is a lot of damage and also does drive damage. And while command grabs aren't universal, A LOT of characters have them and a lot of STRONG characters have them. Once "IMMA PERFECT PARRY THIS" gets met with "I AM, ALMIGHTY" a few times the problem kinda solves itself.
dp takes skill to execute, the cross-cuts even more. perfect parry just require you to tap two buttons (or one with shortcut), and it covers both front and cross-up jumps, too much reward for so little effort.
Ya'll really eager to self report how predictable you are if you're consistently getting your jumpins perfect parried and aren't changing things up. There's some dumb things about perfect parry but complaining about this ain't it, chief. 8:07 Yeah this example is kinda nonsense. In the example where the flash kick is blocked Rashid is literally already grounded when the flash kick starts, so that's not even a safe jump or anything so much as guile missing the hell out of his AA timing. But then the "he can't normal or FK AA..." recording is clearly not the same timing at all AND doesn't show a flash kick being blocked (all versions have full startup invul vs air and would never get stuffed by a jumpin). IIRC in any situation that would safe jump a 5 frame (like light flash kick), perfect parry doesn't result in a guaranteed punish anyway since it leaves you +2/3. 9:29 It's only the best of both worlds if your opponent makes no attempt to adjust, which can be said for almost every OS. If you scout an opponent is doing delay tech every wakeup, you target it with shimmy. If you scout an opponent doing this, land and hit them out of DR with a fat combo instead of autopiloting a weak punish like throw. In either case if you're not adding in new options (often including ones that look outright "dumb" without the OS in the mix) to respond to an opponent changing theirs, that's on you.
I understand your perspective on this, it can be frustrating. But honestly, I like this part of the game so much. Jumping in should always carry risk, even if you think you avoided the anti-air chances. Perfect Parry anti-airs save me as a Zangief main, when Luke or Ken comes in with Hammer Mountain, and anyone else who's jump-in seems to beat Lariat consistently. Usually only works 1 or 2 times in a match though, as the opponent catches on quickly and empty jumps. If Capcom did something to get rid of Perfect Parry anti-airs, it would really hurt characters who don't have good anti-air options, and cut out a lot of hype moments.
Gief's lariat is one of the best and easiest AAs in the game. Sounds like you need practice instead of relying on a low risk mechanic that punishes players for having skill.
I'm glad you feel that way, and I'm happy you're having fun with the game, even though I disagree. Jumping is risky as it is. Placing a decent jump in should not get punished. The example of jumping over a bad boom and getting punished is pretty spot on with how lame it feels.
@@dhayris160 Very true. I understand your perspective. I wrote a bunch of stuff to counter, but I'll say this: You should never feel safe in a real fight until it's over. Regardless of whatever advantages you think you have at the moment, danger is looming unless your opponent is completely defeated. The same is true for this game.
People get really mad at me when i say this but ahem: fireballs are too strong in this game. Not having an anti fireball options while cornered is a terrible situation. Not impossible but def not fun. Play kim vs ed and get cornered. It feels almost like a death sentence. his projectile game is so good with lasher. That in conjunction with the consistency on AAPP feels really bad
Ed is so hard for Kim, it feels like an instant loss sometimes. I know that up close the first part of his fireball is punishable on block, and from far range you can guess with slide or teleport. You can also sweep the first part similar to guiles sonic blade. But him having a two part fireball makes it pretty much always a guessing game and atmid range it can be hard to do anything about it especially with his long range normals. I think they shouldn't have tried to get rid of moves with instant fireball invincibility. Back in sf4 guy had mk tatsu, Kim should have had the same. If the invincibility is later like it is with her slide moves and her teleport, it means it's just a guess and you can't really do it on reaction apart from at max range.
want them removed.. i worked hard to DP and i get nothing for it.. meanwhile a scrub hits 2 buttons and gets a big reward!? This is why you got so many scrubs in master rank.. if i have a safe jump it shouldnt become a 50/50 for me.. i got the knockdown and it is my mixup that i EARNED!!
Fireball into almost instant invulnerable DP is the one thing in 2D FGs that annoys me THE MOST. Easiest, most rewarding, braindead and prevalent strategy, that controls and defines the whole game, and must be defeated by guessing. F%&$ing HATE that crap. I understand the antiair parry is even worse, but god I hate DPs so much.
I would normally disagree with this but they went and added akuma 😂 you can't even jump his fireball with a solid read most of the time, at least guile had to charge his fireballs and anti air.
Nah, I wouldn't call it the most rewarding strategy at all. When you do a bad jump, you eat a DP. That's like 15% of your health bar in damage. When you do it right, you get a jump in combo. That's like about 40% damage with no resources spent all the way up to 60%/70% if you spend. You get to squish your opponent if you get through while he's whittling you down very slow. It's actually quite risky. Perfect Parry skews this into netting a good corner position for the fireballer. That's actually what all characters want, because having the corner position is much more braindead than being in neutral and guessing with fireballs.
@@LungDragoso it makes the jumper at a more risk so jumping isn't as much of a brain-dead strategy either since you get to a lose condition if you get parried?
@@mrblooper1994 Pretty much, yeah. Arguably it shouldn't be a thing because the jump is an universal answer to this situation that's available to everyone and not every character gets alternative usable ways of answering fireballs. When it's the only thing you've got, it really sucks to take that risk as it's of course predictable and you can lose the whole match off of it. Parrying the fireballs is perhaps the safer answer, however unless you hit the perfect parry on the fireball you're can still be opening up yourself to a mixup that arguably also shouldn't be a thing since the enemy gets it just by throwing out a fireball.
NAILED IT. Imagine a game where you jump a boom or a slow ass Bison normal on a read and you're still the one being mixed because there's no risk/reward for the opponent mashing a basically auto-timed tap parry afterward as soon as they see you go airborn so you have to consider foregoing your full combo jump-in for an empty-jump throw instead. What a fun game that sounds like.
That empty jump throw literally does more damage than their full parry punish
@@goldsage4722 but the perfect parry Anti Air combo puts you into the corner for a guess for game situation.. thats the problem.. not the damage..
@@Xtremeism316 you can’t get an anti air combo from a AAPP, that’s not a mechanic in SF6. If you PP an air attack you won’t have enough plus frames to get a clean hit
The fact that you have to decide to go for that throw when you read what would be a full combo punish in any other game is what’s dumb as hell. And even then that’s a guess, who tf wants to guess again when you already guessed right on the fireball/normal you jumped?
@@charlieharrington9555 Did you watch the video? They get a clean punish counter and get carried to the corner to throw loop. When this game is all about the throw loop mix up.
I hate PP anti air! It’s like LP anti air in sf5. 😂
I forgot about this, hands down the most annoying thing I experienced in sf5 for sure 😂
No its not that jab anti air was way more beneficial you still have the risk of missing the PP and still being in the blender
these intros are kinda corny, but i've gotta say, they've really grown on me
Good point. I haven't been hit w/it personally (yet), but can imagine it would be a problem.
If I ever see it in vs, I'll try empty jump. Nice vid.
If they have to have perfect parry in the game, it should be frame 1 perfect. When ppl PP my jump ins and I specifically delay the button press and they still get a PP I am like... WTF!? If I press early mid or late they get that PP... smh!
Annoyingly how late or early you're pressing doesn't really change the timing tbh, it's always just gonna be times based on when the jump in actually connects which will still be basically the same. Tbh I think you're on to something by pointing this out. The window to pp fireballs is less easy to account for the fact that they are easier overall to pp because the fireball is moving into your character, maybe anti air parry should use the same logic
I think you covered this perfectly. I have yet to speak to any high level player who doesn't think perfect Parry on jumps is silly.
I think it's cos it's not a problem for those other players.
This is one of the main reasons why I preferred V-shift to PP. With V-shift, you couldn't punish jump-in normals or lights. The biggest problem with PP in my opinion is that it leaves you way too plus. Aside from specific high-recovery moves, most of the time V-shift just gave you a V-break punish and reset to neutral, rather than corner carry into oki into throw loop into ggs.
Thing is, I personally really like how aa perfect parry interacts with safejumps, it adds a nice layer of complication to what usually is autopilot. Idk how you could change it without axing that. Maybe aa perfect parries force the jumping opponent to the ground faster so you are left +1 or 2, you don't get a punish but you can start pressure.
References:
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SF3 gameplay clips by Bafael
th-cam.com/video/KAUP4DC2MzM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tGnptDV0umdtkh4M
I would say perfect parry anti airs exist for an issue that capcom refuses to address. Strong jump ins and arial approaches which are almost impossible to anti airs with normals
I agree and I hope they just make it so that normal jump attacks can’t be perfect parried. I think to balance they can make it so you get a ton of drive back for using it as a way to recover drive.
This game has no certainty. Its pure chaos. Every decision is a 50/50 for both players all the time. Its an unstable isotope.
Then why do the same player make top 8 every tournament?
@@charlieharrington9555 Their superior spacing, neutral game, and footsies set them apart from the rest. He's right that it feels pretty chaotic, but Capcom intentionally designed it that way to strike a balance and attract more players to Street Fighter.
@@charlieharrington9555 chaos magicians exist.
@@charlieharrington9555 Who ? people can win a cpt or evo and die in pool the next day it never happen in sfv lmao
Its definitely super confusing to me when it happens against a zoner where your supposed to get a hard read jump in over a projectile and u get PP AA'd
I think they could change that jump in heavy button's deny Parry completely and just punish counter hit through it, acting like you got hit during a regular fireball jump-in or mistimed button etc.
That idea comes from someone who abuses Anti-Air PP. It is actually bad for me, because it became a bad habit now, and it is hard to get out of the system in pressure situations. Instead of regular DP, I fall back on parry attempts, and that somehow settled in my head. Make it impossible to PP Jump ins, and it will be flushed out of my head sooner or later.
Thank you for saying this 😂😂😂
If you remove the dive kick treat from Cammy you strip her of her signature move and she becomes useless, her spin knuckle is super unsafe just like her spiral arrow and she is only left with the option to whiff punish or aa, so if you want that you should just go and play SF1.
…wtf are you even talking about
Its okay when its on a character, if that's here thing then that's fine. Just another totally different thing when literally even good jumps turn to guesses that can put me in the corner lol
I hate Perfect Parry so much.
Jumping at the end of the day, is a risk in this game if your anti airs are on point you don’t have to worry about perfect parrying
This was like in the old era.. a LOT of players (myself included) couldn't stand parry as a mechanic.. so we didn't play 3S. We played CvS2 instead.. a game that allowed you to set up DOMINATING control over someone.
3S wound up being a pretty stable game.. but at the time it kinda wasn't. Back then, CvS2 was STABLE. Like.. if you're not withing 5% skill range, you have ZERO chance of beating me. And yeah.. a lot of players prefer that kind of game.
For most circumstances if your opponent is able to PPAA you, they could have just DP'd instead. So you as the person jumping deserve whatever happens. You jumped wrongly and ate some sort of punish. This has been the case since SF2. You didn't even have safe jumps in that game - because depending on what version you were playing Ken's DP hit on frame 1 and was fully invulnerable.
As for SF6, I don't love the PPAA but if you think your opponent is likely to do it empty jump into throw or even better command throw is a lot of damage and also does drive damage. And while command grabs aren't universal, A LOT of characters have them and a lot of STRONG characters have them. Once "IMMA PERFECT PARRY THIS" gets met with "I AM, ALMIGHTY" a few times the problem kinda solves itself.
dp takes skill to execute, the cross-cuts even more. perfect parry just require you to tap two buttons (or one with shortcut), and it covers both front and cross-up jumps, too much reward for so little effort.
Im not that salty about pp but a dp requires more input than tapping pp
The whole point of AA is that the input is supposed to be difficult perfect parry ruins the whole thing
Modern
@@Skelegoblinthey’ve really disregarded input difficulty as a balancing factor in this game huh
It genuinely feels like they don't take inputs into account when they balance moves in Sf6.
I do 2HP as most characters and get a decent and reliable AA. AA isn't difficult because of the input, its more due to your metal stack or reactions
What is difficult about moving the stick from df, d, df button????
yea, it's really annoying. it's also a braindead way to deal with cross-ups.
Ya'll really eager to self report how predictable you are if you're consistently getting your jumpins perfect parried and aren't changing things up. There's some dumb things about perfect parry but complaining about this ain't it, chief.
8:07 Yeah this example is kinda nonsense. In the example where the flash kick is blocked Rashid is literally already grounded when the flash kick starts, so that's not even a safe jump or anything so much as guile missing the hell out of his AA timing. But then the "he can't normal or FK AA..." recording is clearly not the same timing at all AND doesn't show a flash kick being blocked (all versions have full startup invul vs air and would never get stuffed by a jumpin). IIRC in any situation that would safe jump a 5 frame (like light flash kick), perfect parry doesn't result in a guaranteed punish anyway since it leaves you +2/3.
9:29 It's only the best of both worlds if your opponent makes no attempt to adjust, which can be said for almost every OS. If you scout an opponent is doing delay tech every wakeup, you target it with shimmy. If you scout an opponent doing this, land and hit them out of DR with a fat combo instead of autopiloting a weak punish like throw. In either case if you're not adding in new options (often including ones that look outright "dumb" without the OS in the mix) to respond to an opponent changing theirs, that's on you.
I LOATHE anti air perfect parry... it is another one of those mechanics that has over time made the game much less fun
I understand your perspective on this, it can be frustrating. But honestly, I like this part of the game so much. Jumping in should always carry risk, even if you think you avoided the anti-air chances.
Perfect Parry anti-airs save me as a Zangief main, when Luke or Ken comes in with Hammer Mountain, and anyone else who's jump-in seems to beat Lariat consistently. Usually only works 1 or 2 times in a match though, as the opponent catches on quickly and empty jumps.
If Capcom did something to get rid of Perfect Parry anti-airs, it would really hurt characters who don't have good anti-air options, and cut out a lot of hype moments.
Characters should have weaknesses
you have a 1 button anti air and u kill with 3 grabs..
Gief's lariat is one of the best and easiest AAs in the game. Sounds like you need practice instead of relying on a low risk mechanic that punishes players for having skill.
I'm glad you feel that way, and I'm happy you're having fun with the game, even though I disagree. Jumping is risky as it is. Placing a decent jump in should not get punished. The example of jumping over a bad boom and getting punished is pretty spot on with how lame it feels.
@@dhayris160 Very true. I understand your perspective.
I wrote a bunch of stuff to counter, but I'll say this:
You should never feel safe in a real fight until it's over. Regardless of whatever advantages you think you have at the moment, danger is looming unless your opponent is completely defeated. The same is true for this game.
People get really mad at me when i say this but ahem: fireballs are too strong in this game.
Not having an anti fireball options while cornered is a terrible situation. Not impossible but def not fun.
Play kim vs ed and get cornered. It feels almost like a death sentence. his projectile game is so good with lasher. That in conjunction with the consistency on AAPP feels really bad
Ed is so hard for Kim, it feels like an instant loss sometimes.
I know that up close the first part of his fireball is punishable on block, and from far range you can guess with slide or teleport. You can also sweep the first part similar to guiles sonic blade. But him having a two part fireball makes it pretty much always a guessing game and atmid range it can be hard to do anything about it especially with his long range normals. I think they shouldn't have tried to get rid of moves with instant fireball invincibility. Back in sf4 guy had mk tatsu, Kim should have had the same. If the invincibility is later like it is with her slide moves and her teleport, it means it's just a guess and you can't really do it on reaction apart from at max range.
want them removed.. i worked hard to DP and i get nothing for it.. meanwhile a scrub hits 2 buttons and gets a big reward!? This is why you got so many scrubs in master rank.. if i have a safe jump it shouldnt become a 50/50 for me.. i got the knockdown and it is my mixup that i EARNED!!
Stop getting called out then 😂
Fireball into almost instant invulnerable DP is the one thing in 2D FGs that annoys me THE MOST. Easiest, most rewarding, braindead and prevalent strategy, that controls and defines the whole game, and must be defeated by guessing. F%&$ing HATE that crap.
I understand the antiair parry is even worse, but god I hate DPs so much.
I would normally disagree with this but they went and added akuma 😂 you can't even jump his fireball with a solid read most of the time, at least guile had to charge his fireballs and anti air.
Nah, I wouldn't call it the most rewarding strategy at all. When you do a bad jump, you eat a DP. That's like 15% of your health bar in damage. When you do it right, you get a jump in combo. That's like about 40% damage with no resources spent all the way up to 60%/70% if you spend. You get to squish your opponent if you get through while he's whittling you down very slow. It's actually quite risky.
Perfect Parry skews this into netting a good corner position for the fireballer. That's actually what all characters want, because having the corner position is much more braindead than being in neutral and guessing with fireballs.
@@LungDragoso it makes the jumper at a more risk so jumping isn't as much of a brain-dead strategy either since you get to a lose condition if you get parried?
@@mrblooper1994 Pretty much, yeah. Arguably it shouldn't be a thing because the jump is an universal answer to this situation that's available to everyone and not every character gets alternative usable ways of answering fireballs. When it's the only thing you've got, it really sucks to take that risk as it's of course predictable and you can lose the whole match off of it.
Parrying the fireballs is perhaps the safer answer, however unless you hit the perfect parry on the fireball you're can still be opening up yourself to a mixup that arguably also shouldn't be a thing since the enemy gets it just by throwing out a fireball.
You're whining about a worse option than a DP to punish your unsafe jump ins lol
All perfect parries should force both players back into neutral.
That was how they did it for new gen and 2nd impact and everyone hated it 🤦🏻♂️
I do understand what u r saying 100%