The 64ft and 128ft pedal organ stop experiment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ต.ค. 2008
- Unfortunately the camera microphone sound just can't go down to 8Hz and 4Hz but this pedal department shakes everything visibly and is a brilliant addition to full organ. Whilst experimenting my wife thought that I had started the tractor outside and upon coming in commented that it sounded like the Titanic's engine room.
We've always wondered what these sounds really would sound like on a real pipe organ . . . so here goes!
This instrument provides a versatility suitable for playing organ music from all European traditions and the next project is to try to create the excitement of Baroque reeds.
Whilst starting off as a Makin from Londonderry cathedral it has now been very much transformed and is not an instrument that one can go and buy off the shelf. From this point of view the excellence of the instrument is not a threat to pipe organs as most good pipe organs are far superior to the digital electronics commercially available on the market. The versatility of this instrument actually enables one to contemplate how proposed changes to pipe organs might work . . . and so is capable of providing a model for the improvements of pipe instruments.
Thanks to the theremin137 who inspired this ultra low experiment uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BROuHql... almost as a joke in response to Thanks to the theremin137 who inspired this uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BROuHql... and uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9rmsORj...
"I'm about interrupt the migratory patterns of whales all across the world by playing a single note with my foot"
manifestgtr rotflmfao!!
manifestgtr 😭😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂
Maybe if the note was coming from the extreme upper end of keyboard.
That’s funny!
"most unmusical, but great fun", LOL
Yes
Yes, you can't hear it. But you can FEEL it, and that will dramatically increase the emotional impact of the musical piece.
I hate anything over 16‘ 32+ just freaks me out and makes me think I’m going to break something
It's always very emotional when you accidentally crush your cathedral.
@@SoggySandwich80 ah you again, harpsichord & organ right?
Funny:
I did some tests with a professional team in the local university ... I pick up sounds to 8, even 7 Hz ... .
And as high as 23KHz.
This ain't funny, right?
Well then:
Here's the really funny bit:
My MIDRANGE is mere 30% compared to that of others ... . o_O
Quite very literally:
I am TONE DEAF (Well, Tone Hearing Impaired, more correctly, deaf means NO sound (in a certain range, when it comes to Tone Deafness. Red.).
Betcha he never has to dust anything in his house ...
I wish I had more neighbors like this.
lmao use the 4hz as a metronome
Omg yess
lol
4hz it's technically 240 bpm, pretty fast uh.
@@ramiro_echeverriahalf time! 120! easy peasy!
Fun fact, every one of us have something that plays the C-4 note. It is called a clock.
You actualy just hear the sound of evrything in the house vibrating, I just can imagine how you feel this vibrating your internal organs.
It made me thinking about a certain class of locomotive in Belgium some 15 years ago that doubleheaded on a steep incline.
Their engines would do 875 rpm at full power, with 8 cylinders and a four stroke cycle that did give a lowest exhaust pitch of 22.5Hz (plus all harmonics, as it is not a pure tone), this couldn't realy be heard but you could feel these locomotives in your chest long before you heard al the other noises of the train aproaching.
That frequenty would therefore be somewhere between a 16' and 32' stop.
This is a very rare treat to see and hear how extremely low a pipe organ can play. I am sure it sounds incredible in person in the room with such an amazing Instrument
It's what is known as the King of Instruments - it's an organ: but people hear organs less nowadays because
- church attendance has fallen,
- many churches have abandoned their organs for bad and temporary electronics, or drums and guitars,
- many church organs are played badly by pianists who don't know what splendid repertoire there is for the King of Instruments
- organs are no longer heard in cinemas
So go seek out a place with an organ - and make sure it's played well!
This is what I love in German churches. Every after Sunday services, they play the pipe organ. I missed listening to it as the bass sounds feel like drumming my soul.
Ahh HUH AHH HUH AHH HUH
Ahh HUH AHH HUH AHH HUH AHH HUH
You need to watch Interstellar.
and i've heard organists play the piano terribly, but that isn't a valid reason for pianos dying
Phone speeker didn't work, headphones didn't work, in the end I just plugged it into my guitar amp
I reckon that at 128' and 64' the name "Earthquake" would be quite appropriate
Martin Hartley 😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 omg. Hilarious. 😂😂😂😂
"OKLAHOMA YES YES" is more fitting, sir.
@@cobalt._.27 yes
How about Chile 1960?
:-) Yes! The instrument is meant to be fun - an experiment of everything you always wanted to be on an organ! The result of this is that perhaps one can make better decisions in specifying a pipe organ to be built . . .
This was a really fun video! I love it :-)
8 Hz is around a C-1, 4 Hz is around a C-2. Inaudible, but still impressive.
Because there has been no evolutionary benefit to complicate the organ (no pun intended) to hear that range. Nothing dumb about that; unnecessary features still cost something, and over time evolution tends to optimize unused things away.
The fundamental is inaudible but you can hear the overtones (what we are able to hear here,) but the difference is that a fundamental of 4 or 8 hertz can,rather than being heard through our ears, be felt throughout our whole body. That unfortunately cannot be recreated through a youtube video.
"most unmusical but great fun" haha
one of my speakers blew listening to this.....
I absolutely love your work and experiments with pipe organ and also speaker representations of pipe organ sounds. I look forward to more even though I know this is a 10 year old video. All the best, Steven
128 feet? How is your house still intact after that?
it's made of Wyoming Yes.
It's a digital rank, not a physical one, so it doesn't require additional space. The Makin is a digital organ.
@@pjclutterbuck230473 Josh was probably referring to the sound waves not destroying the house
I Freakin LOVE this guy!!!! He's like the Mad Scientist of the organ.
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing with us. I've never heard a 128' before, but I have heard a 64' - but even on my internet speakers - your setup sounded great! And, I like your organ, too (the one with the keyboard!)
It's been about six years since I first saw this video, and still I am impressed.
This thing is just awesome. I've only heard of one organ with even a 64-foot stop, but wow. This would be amazing to feel (or play). I'm jealous and want to build an organ like this, or rather learn how to do something like that. Would be a real challenge and something I'd most certainly enjoy.
Fun fact, this came out the day I was born. To the month. To the year.
In all seriousness, organs absolutely baffle me. Beautiful stuff
Now play C and C# together.
theRealPlaidRabbit 17/16 polyrhythms are fun
That makes T for Trenta.
You. You are the definition of a madman
@@ColgateLP are you talking about me? if so, then LOUISIANA PURCHASE
@@cobalt._.27 nah mate 'tis just Coloransas (Colorado / Kansas mixed together)
Stop playing with your organ. You'll go blind.
Ah, someone else thinks that's funny. Thank you. I actually own an organ and I make that joke all the time. No one ever gets it.
How can you go blind by playing an organ?
Aqua Serpents Galore!
Penis joke
You mean deaf?
Literally fantastic. I wonder what it would do to a building's foundations?
Does the USGS take into consideration their seismic measurements when you play that monster?
It's all fun and games until the organist next door hits the brown note when you're sipping your morning coffee.
Love the whole experiment take on the build up.
You should have made a small documentary of the build so the whole world could see
your mad skills :)
"Most unmusical, but great fun".
*EVERYONE LIKED THAT*
Wonder how this kind of sound would work for relieving constipation? Or, kidney stones?
super excellent! i love it, thanks :)
brilliant!
It's like a minor earthquake: just enough to rattle things around.
This is an absolute classic!
Thanks for showing...very interesting that while on their own the 64' and 128' pipes sound like a pointless racket, but when combined with other ranks, adds to the 'majesty' of the sound.
Wonderful feeling to feel the 32' stops shaking the place in tune with the higher pitched pedal pipes.
I remember experimenting with an electric bass guitar plugged into my hi fi system and large floor standing speakers. I loosened the lowest string while plucking it producing some really low notes and damn, everything in the room rattled as it sucked all the power from my amplifier.
sounds like something that someone from Wyoming would do, being a Wyomingite myself, that sounds like something that I would do.
We have a real 64' in Sydney!
There's also one in Atlantic City
+Shining Armor The Sydney organ has been fully restored, but I believe the Atlantic City organ is in a poor state?
+Robert Woodley yes, but the 64' was one of the first ranks to be fixed
+Robert Woodley the board walk hall organ is approx 60% restored they have both left and right stage swells operational have added swell shade doors to all echo chambers as well they have rebuilt the blowers and refurbished all the key/foot boards of the 7 manual console. they have replaced the left stage relays with modern solid state and have made it functional with the existing mechanical relays throughout the arena. project is expected to wrap up end of next year provided finding and volunteer work keep going at the pace it is. I visited the arena last august and got to work on the organ a little and learned allot. I'm a huge fan of pipe organs such as the theater organ in the organ loft in down town SLC
+Anthony Morrison: I'm replying to your comment from two years ago. What progress has been made on the organ since then, and how much of it is playable?
Also, is the 64' back to playable condition? I think it's called a "Contra Diaphone," right? I don't remember. And the Tuba Imperial and Ophicleide? Are those the only two stops voiced on 100" wind?
I almost forgot! The Baldwin organ... was that one also restored?
Its about math and physics. A 4hz stop has the wavelength of 274 feet peek to peek. So that means the gang bangers with the bolt shaker speakers in the trunk don't really feel the bass they create and someone 200 feet away are hit with the full energy of the wave. These factors are designed into any modern pipe organ and its why they do a lot of sound engineering prior to even pouring out the pipes to be made. The diameter and length of the pipes will be done on a modern CAD system that will wind up with the most acoustically perfect organ you can have for that space. I figure this is what Rufatti is doing in Italy to the Hazel Wright organ from Christ's Cathedral. Maybe they are using slide rule calculators or just good old intuition.
+Burt Ward The Sydney Town Hall organ 64' stop rarely gets used because it actually started damaging the buildings around the hall.
+Burt Ward The Sydney Town Hall organ 64' stop rarely gets used because it actually started damaging the buildings around the hall.
CorvetteCoonass 😂damn. That's very powerful. Lmao
You are right on the money. This is also the same reason a tuba sounds tiny in a bedroom but sounds huge in a concert hall.
When talking physics, please note that the addition 'peek to peek' is irrelevant for the definition of wavelenght. Furthermore, I assume that you mean 'peak' instead of 'peek', the latter of which also has a physical meaning but probably not the one that you are looking for.
love this guy
:-) Thanks! My sons prefer the name "Self Destruct" as they say that any other name is too serious. However, at the entrance of the house we have two wonderful Wellingtonia (Sequoia) trees that are around 120 ft high. So I thought that the "Wellingtonia" would be an appropriate name, although the boys are firmly fixed on "Self Destruct".
Over the weekend, Jeremy Filsell did a most wonderful recital here and used the stop rather more than I had ever expected or dreamed. It was felt and musical
My subwoofer was making my room shake while you were playing this.
ah..... the limits....your mic... my computer speakers. So cool to feel the pulses, and see everything vibrating. Betting you could feel it in your chest cavity as well.
I have no idea who this guy is or what in the world this organ is. But I do find him as entertaining as he is innovative.
Fantastic! What sort of speakers do you use? 15 or 18 inch? What sort of power> It would be great to hear it, 'live'!
I don't know why but the deep organ bass is soooo where I want to live, It even helps me sleep
Very interesting effect. ! The bas sounds more deeply :)
Yes - actually the note middle C used to be 256Hz, upper C 512Hz and A was at 435Hz (if I remember correctly). Then central heating came into concert halls and raised the temperature from 15 to 20 degrees and the oboe went up to 440Hz. But one can take C=256 as an approximation for these purposes. So 4Hz is 6 octaves below middle C, 2Hz is 7 and 1Hz is 8 octaves below, on a theoretical pipe length of 512ft! The symmetry of these numbers based on time, wavelength and speed of sound is curious!
Wow! That really rattles the devil and the dust out of my sub woofer!! cheers!
Dang Buddy, you allmost start a Earthquake, even here in Germany my Walls shakin cause of you😂
That instrument is WILD! Unfortunately I have not come over to America to experience it - but one day would love to.
"unmusical, but quite fun"
I think I like this guy.
This a great subwoofer-test! Nice experiment. 4 and 8 Hz. damn :D
Im gonna go over for the full tour one day, but ill wait till its playing (at least in part) again.
Yes - it is an infinite baffle! That's why it shakes so successfully!
Yes! Great fun and absurd. The musical effect really depends on it not being too heavy and then on full organ it adds surprisingly musically.
Cool. It would be so interesting to try that out with pipes...
WHOAW!!!😲 I think you just rolled my socks down with those notes!!!🙄
It's coming out of one of the speakers that is pictured in the Video Response above. The frequency can be generated from the sounds of pipes and then put through a speaker such as this. Thigpen speakers are not necessary for this - louder than this would be wholly unmusical, but when felt at the level set at Hammerwood Park, the feeling makes musical sense.
The advantage of deriving the frequency from existing pipes means that the sound is in tune. "Tuning" these pitches would be hell
Yes! Fantastic! There aren't many real ones but certainly Sidney does!
Yes! Most of the walls are really solid but that one in the corner is a plasterboard partition. I have had to inject expanding foam to stick it together and stabilise it - and this has worked. The room has a copy of the Parthenon Frieze - heavy plaster panels - and we have inserted additional supports into the walls all the way round. So fingers crossed. With the speaker arrangement detailed in the Video Response above we don't need an Ogle & Marshalltree Thigpen to produce a musical result.
@UncagedCardinal Sorry - no seat vibration transducers are installed here. Is this really what I need?
can you do a new video on this with better mircophones this year?
My man is going down to Beryllium with this one. BERYLLIUM.
I bet the neighbors love him
You could make a heck of a D 'n' B song with that sucker. NICE!
How is this achieved?
Am more the type that also likes to know the how/why.
Thank you.
@TheElectronicaman Perfect application for a rotary woofer I do agree.
I'd like to know where one can acquire a subwoofer or technology capable of producing 4hz.
Hi! It would certainly have been coupled into a 32ft pitch - whether or not any higher ones I haven't a clue . . . Glad that this has produced some amusement - I always wondered what it would really "sound" like
@GJmusique Yes - my wife thought I'd started the deisel Unimog engine. But it's an experiment to see what these frequencies add. Strangely in use they mathematically underpin harmony above.
AMAZING ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
I have to agree the recording deficiencies and following compression, storage, retrieval, decompression, and reproduction on inadequate consumer-grade electronic sound reproduction gear is going to impact the ability to experience what you have done there. That being said, I have auditioned material played on that organ as equipped with the 128' stop and the effect IS noticeable. Obviously not a "note", definitely an "effect", somewhat percussive but without the attack of percussion.
Are there any pictures of the 128'?
I can imagine putting these to use in my forthcoming Tetragrammaton oratorio cycle, to provide that quaking feeling under the floor at the most 'mysterium tremendum' moments. I've always wondered where the limit of organ pedal stops is.
Hi!
Yes - I have posted the "preparation" video which shows the speaker. It's in the corner of the room - and that makes it more efficient also. The infinite baffle is made by venting the speaker into the sub-floor space and at the concert at the weekend it was really effective. It's so efficient that at more than 10W it would shake the house to pieces, so I'm using a perfectly ordinary 30W hi-fi amplifier.
Impresive..first time I see a pipe organ in a garage! I wouldnt be your neighbour!😂😂
Hi! Yes - it's an electronic trick I'm using which is quite effective and remarkably musical underpinning full organ. I have an idea that it's possible to add these deep pitches to pipes also without adding digital stops.
how did you produce the 128' tone? at middle-collegiate church in NYC they use thigpen rotary woofers. gets down to 4 hertz baby. you can feel the floor moving up and down by about an inch.
helo david, adam from wales here, it sounds great here on my system
Well, hello, glad to see my "Casavant Dynamic Accentuator" experiment has inspired others! Cheers!!
Rumor has it. The whole city in which this organ's in had cracks and some collapsed, after he pulled out the 128ft.
Call me heathen, but we get the same kinds of sound/vibrations from a four-inch exhaust on a tuned Impreza (64ft sound) and from diesel boat engines of a capacity greater than 20 litres at idle (128ft sound), right down to the "tappet noise"! In fact it was very interesting to observe virtually the same collateral effect on objects in close range from the sound vibrations generated in the pipes. Thanks for the post!
Have you ever come across the 64 foot rank of the Midmer Losh organ at the Atlantic City Convention Hall? What are your thoughts on that?
I'm wondering what *new material* might be required to construct a rank of *real 128' pipes?*
Is it possible that wood, or the usual tin/lead alloy, would begin to *catastrophically come apart* -- sooner rather than later?
Perhaps some *carbon fiber/metal composite* (similar to what's used in modern passenger aircraft construction) might hold up to such low frequencies? Or would we have to settle for a "speakers only" electronic version?
Or could there be a *stopped* 64' rank (e.g., Bourdon or Quintaton type) producing a pitch *one octave lower* than the actual 64'' length... thereby producing a 128' pitch... Like a 16' stopped Bourdon *sounds* at 32' pitch?
Lots of interesting questions....
I can only imagine this sort of sub-sub-sub pedal stop being used effectively, and to best advantage, in a *hugely resonant cathedral.*
But, musically speaking, a good *32' flue and 32' Reed* are all that are required for producing goosebumps!
+Bob H: I would think if you constructed something similar to the 64' diaphone in Boardwalk Hall, then put stoppers in the pipes, you could probably extend the pitch down one octave. You might have to increase the wind, though, probably from 35" to 50" water pressure, and you would probably have to secure the stoppers somehow so the higher wind pressure doesn't blow them out.
@Enantiodromialist This is a simulation of 128ft using frequency division in order to test what musical effect or purpose such low frequencies can be to music and whether they have any place at all. Look for "Latrobian Whirl" where the 128ft was used on certain large notes. Other concerts have used it - possibly Ben Scott - search "Ben Scott Widor Toccata 5th Symphonie" as he's likely to have used it on that. The instrument is intended to allow experiment as well as demonstrating the repertoire
What kind of speakers do you use that go so low? The only ones I'm aware of are rotary subwoofers which theoretically go to D.C. Theoretically 20 hz is supposed to the lowest the human ear can discern---anything below that is felt more than heard.
I did a similar experiment with a bass guitar by loosening a string amplified into a pair of floor standing hifi speakers (UK built Radfords known for good bass extension). Below a certain point (very low frequencies) the woofers just rattled.
@djttv Hi! This is actually an electronic experiment to see what the effect would be were one to build real pipes for these frequencies
The 4 and 8Hz option tell us that this will not find a place on a CD (lowest freq.is 20Hz). But can be experienced near the instrument itself. So much for CD's.
Actually the 64' gravissima on the wanamaker organ is translated in english to Harmonic Bass or Acoustic Bass. This means that it is a RESAULTANT OF A 32' Stop and another stop. So it isn't real. Plus there are more than two organs with a 64' stop. The two with a complete 64' rank are in america and Australia.
I want one of these in my bedroom! Divine with those lower registers! As if a God has walked into the room!
I have a Thomas Palace III 3 manual transistor organ from 1966 that is a decent organ, but the bass at 16 foot is not as deep as I would like. If I amplify it separately and put it through a sub woofer 2-12 inch speaker box I have, will it accentuate the bass more than the organ's 15 inch speaker. The Organ's amp is transistor, but only pushing maybe 40 watts on that channel. Surprisingly the organ's Leslie channel is very loud and clear and it uses an identical amp, but it's pushing an 8 inch.
All the knobs you see on an organ are the stops. Each stop has a different sound, and often a different pitch. They are labelled with numbers - 16, 8, 4, 2 2/3, 2, 1 1/3, 1. These refer to the length of a pipe playing the bottom C on the keyboard. 8ft is standard pitch, 4ft is an octave up, 16ft an octave down - so you get the picture. 32ft is two octaves down, 64 and 128 are 3 and 4 down. Then each pitch comes in different tones, Principal, Flute, Stopped or Reeds like trumpets and oboes.
For those curious, the only "true" (actually physical) "64 stops in the world are in boardwalk hall auditorium organ, Atlantic city (because if there's one thing Americans like it's being loud) and the Grand Organ in Sydney town hall, Australia (cuz if there's one thing Aussies like, it's being louder than the Americans!)
:-) Well that's exactly why I wanted to carry out the experiment. In fact it does actually harmonically support chords above it. Have a listen to "Latrobian Dionysan Whirl" and you'll hear it in use on some notes if your speakers can cope.
My home organ only has a 16ft stop, but it still makes the upstairs neighbors angry!
@Desmaad Yes - lucky to have space - but such luck imposes a responsibility to use it well - and this instrument is to raise the profile and appreciation of organ music and repertoire. If you look at the Organ Matters website, and the posting "too late" you'll see why I have created this instrument with such passion. It was 3 manuals when I first acquired it and I added the further two . . .
sounds like a big block engine ideling. thats music to my ears
@MrFixit150 Hi! Yes- that's what I thought till I tried it. As part of a large sound, it actually supports the higher harmonics of the harmony on full organ and sounds awesome. Search "Latrobian Whirl" and you'll hear it in use on a couple of notes
That's a nice contra lawn-mower 128' you got there.. :P