Thanks Jesco. I used the angled ceiling in an other useful way. The sloping ceilings (both sides of the house) had large beams, about 20 cm deep which I filled with 16 cm rockwool and covered with thin plastic and fabric. I also covered part of the vertical walls with 16 cm rockwool and an air gap of 10 cm. The triangular top of the sloping ceilings is covered with a horizontal ceiling about a meter from the top, effectively resulting in a sort of mini attic within the attic. The ceiling is about 7 m2, about 2,40 above the floor. I sawed out about 60% of this wooden ceiling and covered it with plastic and fabric. I then filled this mini attic with 12 of my old 10 cm rockwool bass traps from my previous studio, stacked on top of each other, effectively turning it into a huge bass trap. Where the sloping roofs meet the floor there was likewise a storage space on either end about 1 meter deep, where I repeated this trick, again creating huge bass traps there where I think the build up of resonances will occur most. Yesterday I finally adjusted the speakers for my optimal listening position and first impression is it sounds great (new Focal speakers too.....). Haven't had time yet do any real testing so far but I doubt there will be much resonance. However, what is quite noticeable when I was working out the optimal positioning of my speakers, is that there is a significant difference in bass response at the listening position compared to say 1 meter further back from the speakers. In the latter case the bass seems to disappear. I would have expected - with so much treatment - that there would be less difference between the listening position and other places in the room. Is that a sign my treatment still isn't working well?
I was able to make good use of oblique standing waves in setting up a PA system for a gig in a large room that was three times as wide as it was deep. The performance stage was in the middle of one of the two long walls, and took up nearly half the depth of the room. That made it impractical to set up the two main speaker stacks at the conventional locations on the front corners of the stage pointing forward. Instead, I set up the speaker stacks next to the rear corners of the stage, angled obliquely toward the short side walls. This made reflections from the side walls converge at the center of the long back wall, taking the longest possible path around the room. I then mounted front-fill speakers on tripod stands at the front of the stage near the ceiling, pointing forward toward the center of the room, to make use of the precedence effect of the short distance between the front of the stage and the back wall. Finally, I mounted small back fill speakers at the far corners of the room near the ceiling, with a short delay to match their distance from the main speaker stacks. This room started out very boomy, but settled down after it filled up with people. The low end was phenomenal with good intelligibility maintained by mounting the high frequency drivers above the crowd's head level.
Thanks for this video! I was originally thinking about doing this kind of space, but realizing now it’s probably easier to just treat a normal bedroom and using a closet as a vocal booth.
Good topic, at home I work with an attic double sloped ceiling. The solution was (low end sweetspot) positioning, then speakers settings to flatten with REW, then sonarworks to even it out with cuts only.
I must have missed some video, but have you talked about drop down ceilings? Picture: standard drywall ceilings with insulation above and then a Rockfon, Ecophone 25mm drop down ceiling (similar as offices, hospitals) with 100-200 mm gap, where you can add insulation or drywall to control absorbing and diffusing. Valid choice?
The best halls for concerts have almost none parallel walls (Royal Albert Hall, for instance, is round). Since a lot of them were built in pre-computer era (even in Roman time) I imagine they have to do some serious calculations on paper, if they wanted to predict the behaviour of standing waves in advance….
Hi Jesco. I am at point where I'm deciding how to utillise my studio rooms. I have 3 rooms. 1. 11 3/4 x 24 ft x 12ft ceiling 2. 6ft x 10 x 10ft ceiling 3. 12ft x 20ft x 9 to 13ft angled ceiling I decided to use room 1 as the control room because of the angled ceiling. I signed up for your coarse and built the treatments.Sounds so much better! Now I am second guessing room choice? Should I have used the angled ceiling as the control room? I have heard, if you use an angled ceiling room as the control room, the listening spot should be on the low side of the room. Too much bass build up. If this is true, would it be the same room effect on drums?
Hey Jesco, Perhaps you could do a video on the following: I want to make my own bass traps using Rockwool brand Safe 'n' Sound batts. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to get clean looking results because of how limp the batts are. Will it negatively impact the sound absorption quality if I use Rockwool brand Comfortboard to front face my panels with and backfill with the batts? Their Comfortboard is a product similar to Owens Corning 703. Just It's very difficult to get OC 703 in Canada, whereas Rockwool Brand products are in every home building store here. Thoughts?
Hello sir, I believe he has a link above on how to build a better bass trap. There are also several A I videos in the past concerning materials being less important than depth of panels. From my experience, the stuff holds shape pretty well once its compressed between plastic and fabric wrap. The only issue I've had is with a bit of dipping in my clouds.
Do the effects of room modes impact listening at all positions (I think no)? If not, do room modes that impact places other than the listening position(s) matter? And if they don’t matter, is there a way to treat wall surfaces to that room mode issues are reduce at the listening position, e.g. acoustic absorption to the direct right and left, above and below, front and back?
I think Jesco consistently covered all your questions throughout his channel. I'm not sure there's another way of answering your questions, rather than watching the videos one by one. So, even if you'd get a shorter answer, like: "yes, just treat it this way", it will neither do much to your particular situation, nor get you closer to a better understanding of acoustics.
I was planning to build a studio in a new building from scratch, so I have control over the angle of the walls. So i was wondering if I should intentionally make the walls sloping to reduce standing waves. This video was really helpful in understanding that I shouldn't do that. ✨
I would reconsider that. As Jesco says, you will not get rid of standing waves altogether but you WILL reduce axial modes which are the strongest ones by avoiding parallel surfaces. As it happens I'm about to install a studio in an attic space. it's 5.7m x 5.7m = potentially a nightmare but there is only a very short reverberation in there whereas another room, that is about 5.7 x 3,4m is like an echo chamber. The biggest difference is the sloping roof.
You really bring voodoo to this presentation. Great records that were believed to be mixed in the great studios here in NYC were mixed in a simple living room upstate. The NS10s monitors and the reason behind their wide adoption are proof that a fairly well-treated room will give you great results if you use your spectrum analyzer well. With the advent of new plugins and headphones that can emulate studios... Oulala... you really are the voodoo guy in the equation. LOL
Thanks for this info! Can you please get a new tagline though? I feel gross every time the way you say voodoo. Using it to be a synonym for a bad thing. Sort of like when people said gay or r*tarded to mean bad or undesirable in some way gives me a similar bad feeling. So, I know you don't want that so I thought you should know.
I think you might be taking that a little far. It's not interpreted as a bad thing like how you used gay as a slur, but rather as a synonym for mysticism. Mysticism is not something you would use in an objective science so yes it has a degree of negative connotation, but not like a slur. That being said using a culture in this context is cultural erasure and kind of problematic. But I also have trouble defending a 400 year old religion that uses animal sacrifice as a substitute for medical care. It's complicated, language reflects the culture ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's the dictionary definition of the word voodoo: ": based on highly improbable suppositions : extremely implausible or unrealistic". Seems to fit perfectly, unless you are the type that's always looking for a reason to pretend to be offended.
@@chinmeysway yeah, that's nice 🙂 snake oil is nice because it's something no one identifies with (except self aware con artists?) As their culture and heritage.
@@IBuildIt hi John, thanks for your reply. I think we can both agree that voodoo and gay both have carried multiple definitions, one for a marginalized people and one to simply mean undesirable or bad in some way. Whether or not a dictionary will confirm everyone growing up in the 90s in the usa knows that gay was used to mean bad by people all the time and if and when you asked them if they were trying to put down gay people many would say no it's just a phrase of speech. Same with retarded, it was v popular. Anyways, thanks for reading and replying 😊
Thanks Jesco. I used the angled ceiling in an other useful way. The sloping ceilings (both sides of the house) had large beams, about 20 cm deep which I filled with 16 cm rockwool and covered with thin plastic and fabric. I also covered part of the vertical walls with 16 cm rockwool and an air gap of 10 cm. The triangular top of the sloping ceilings is covered with a horizontal ceiling about a meter from the top, effectively resulting in a sort of mini attic within the attic. The ceiling is about 7 m2, about 2,40 above the floor. I sawed out about 60% of this wooden ceiling and covered it with plastic and fabric. I then filled this mini attic with 12 of my old 10 cm rockwool bass traps from my previous studio, stacked on top of each other, effectively turning it into a huge bass trap.
Where the sloping roofs meet the floor there was likewise a storage space on either end about 1 meter deep, where I repeated this trick, again creating huge bass traps there where I think the build up of resonances will occur most.
Yesterday I finally adjusted the speakers for my optimal listening position and first impression is it sounds great (new Focal speakers too.....). Haven't had time yet do any real testing so far but I doubt there will be much resonance. However, what is quite noticeable when I was working out the optimal positioning of my speakers, is that there is a significant difference in bass response at the listening position compared to say 1 meter further back from the speakers. In the latter case the bass seems to disappear. I would have expected - with so much treatment - that there would be less difference between the listening position and other places in the room. Is that a sign my treatment still isn't working well?
Your videos are gold Jesco. I haven’t checked out your education, but I can hear you have studied science; physics.
I was able to make good use of oblique standing waves in setting up a PA system for a gig in a large room that was three times as wide as it was deep. The performance stage was in the middle of one of the two long walls, and took up nearly half the depth of the room. That made it impractical to set up the two main speaker stacks at the conventional locations on the front corners of the stage pointing forward. Instead, I set up the speaker stacks next to the rear corners of the stage, angled obliquely toward the short side walls. This made reflections from the side walls converge at the center of the long back wall, taking the longest possible path around the room. I then mounted front-fill speakers on tripod stands at the front of the stage near the ceiling, pointing forward toward the center of the room, to make use of the precedence effect of the short distance between the front of the stage and the back wall. Finally, I mounted small back fill speakers at the far corners of the room near the ceiling, with a short delay to match their distance from the main speaker stacks. This room started out very boomy, but settled down after it filled up with people. The low end was phenomenal with good intelligibility maintained by mounting the high frequency drivers above the crowd's head level.
Thanks for this video! I was originally thinking about doing this kind of space, but realizing now it’s probably easier to just treat a normal bedroom and using a closet as a vocal booth.
Good topic, at home I work with an attic double sloped ceiling. The solution was (low end sweetspot) positioning, then speakers settings to flatten with REW, then sonarworks to even it out with cuts only.
I wish I understood any of what you said.
Have you ever hummed a sweep of frequencies when sitting on a toilet in a restroom stall, and find the resonant frequency of the stall? Awesome.
Yes! I knew I wasn't the only one!)))
@@chinmeysway You can hear it resonate. :)
Great video. Thank you 🙏
I don't have my set up in the attic but I have some pretty sloped loft sausage suspended from my ceiling
I must have missed some video, but have you talked about drop down ceilings? Picture: standard drywall ceilings with insulation above and then a Rockfon, Ecophone 25mm drop down ceiling (similar as offices, hospitals) with 100-200 mm gap, where you can add insulation or drywall to control absorbing and diffusing. Valid choice?
The best halls for concerts have almost none parallel walls (Royal Albert Hall, for instance, is round).
Since a lot of them were built in pre-computer era (even in Roman time) I imagine they have to do some serious calculations on paper, if they wanted to predict the behaviour of standing waves in advance….
Hi Jesco.
I am at point where I'm deciding how to utillise my studio rooms.
I have 3 rooms.
1. 11 3/4 x 24 ft x 12ft ceiling
2. 6ft x 10 x 10ft ceiling
3. 12ft x 20ft x 9 to 13ft angled ceiling
I decided to use room 1 as the control room because of the angled ceiling. I signed up for your coarse and built the treatments.Sounds so much better!
Now I am second guessing room choice? Should I have used the angled ceiling as the control room?
I have heard, if you use an angled ceiling room as the control room, the listening spot should be on the low side of the room. Too much bass build up.
If this is true, would it be the same room effect on drums?
This is topically tangential, but how much weight do you put on the Bonello Criteria?
Yo dude this is completely off topic but do you have any opinions or videos on sound proofing curtains/sound absorption sheets?
in my room i notic if i have one speak under the slop and another under the flat ceiling
the stereo image blance is off
Hey Jesco, Perhaps you could do a video on the following:
I want to make my own bass traps using Rockwool brand Safe 'n' Sound batts. Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to get clean looking results because of how limp the batts are. Will it negatively impact the sound absorption quality if I use Rockwool brand Comfortboard to front face my panels with and backfill with the batts? Their Comfortboard is a product similar to Owens Corning 703.
Just It's very difficult to get OC 703 in Canada, whereas Rockwool Brand products are in every home building store here. Thoughts?
Hello sir,
I believe he has a link above on how to build a better bass trap. There are also several A I videos in the past concerning materials being less important than depth of panels. From my experience, the stuff holds shape pretty well once its compressed between plastic and fabric wrap. The only issue I've had is with a bit of dipping in my clouds.
damn, why would you put the light there pointing to the camera.. its blinding the eyes... wtf
other than that, great video, thanks
Do the effects of room modes impact listening at all positions (I think no)? If not, do room modes that impact places other than the listening position(s) matter? And if they don’t matter, is there a way to treat wall surfaces to that room mode issues are reduce at the listening position, e.g. acoustic absorption to the direct right and left, above and below, front and back?
I think Jesco consistently covered all your questions throughout his channel. I'm not sure there's another way of answering your questions, rather than watching the videos one by one. So, even if you'd get a shorter answer, like: "yes, just treat it this way", it will neither do much to your particular situation, nor get you closer to a better understanding of acoustics.
I was planning to build a studio in a new building from scratch, so I have control over the angle of the walls. So i was wondering if I should intentionally make the walls sloping to reduce standing waves. This video was really helpful in understanding that I shouldn't do that. ✨
I would reconsider that. As Jesco says, you will not get rid of standing waves altogether but you WILL reduce axial modes which are the strongest ones by avoiding parallel surfaces. As it happens I'm about to install a studio in an attic space. it's 5.7m x 5.7m = potentially a nightmare but there is only a very short reverberation in there whereas another room, that is about 5.7 x 3,4m is like an echo chamber. The biggest difference is the sloping roof.
Next time you can talk about cylindric shaped rooms and differebt shapes like L shaped...
You really bring voodoo to this presentation. Great records that were believed to be mixed in the great studios here in NYC were mixed in a simple living room upstate. The NS10s monitors and the reason behind their wide adoption are proof that a fairly well-treated room will give you great results if you use your spectrum analyzer well. With the advent of new plugins and headphones that can emulate studios... Oulala... you really are the voodoo guy in the equation. LOL
Thanks for this info! Can you please get a new tagline though? I feel gross every time the way you say voodoo. Using it to be a synonym for a bad thing. Sort of like when people said gay or r*tarded to mean bad or undesirable in some way gives me a similar bad feeling. So, I know you don't want that so I thought you should know.
I think you might be taking that a little far. It's not interpreted as a bad thing like how you used gay as a slur, but rather as a synonym for mysticism. Mysticism is not something you would use in an objective science so yes it has a degree of negative connotation, but not like a slur.
That being said using a culture in this context is cultural erasure and kind of problematic. But I also have trouble defending a 400 year old religion that uses animal sacrifice as a substitute for medical care.
It's complicated, language reflects the culture ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's the dictionary definition of the word voodoo: ": based on highly improbable suppositions : extremely implausible or unrealistic". Seems to fit perfectly, unless you are the type that's always looking for a reason to pretend to be offended.
@@chinmeysway yeah, that's nice 🙂 snake oil is nice because it's something no one identifies with (except self aware con artists?) As their culture and heritage.
@@IBuildIt hi John, thanks for your reply. I think we can both agree that voodoo and gay both have carried multiple definitions, one for a marginalized people and one to simply mean undesirable or bad in some way. Whether or not a dictionary will confirm everyone growing up in the 90s in the usa knows that gay was used to mean bad by people all the time and if and when you asked them if they were trying to put down gay people many would say no it's just a phrase of speech. Same with retarded, it was v popular. Anyways, thanks for reading and replying 😊