In a small room you can't expect miracles. I would settle for a mid to NEAR FIELD scenario with a FIXED listening point, a basic TRIANGLE, no speakers in corners, a comfortable armchair and not too much energy pumped into the room. Rearranging may prove necessary to find the optimal points. Beware of troughs/nulls. There may be a huge peak a meter away, but if it's out of your listening point you can disregard it. Move out of troughs. Then, possibly damping or bass traps to absorb surplus bass, particularly behind and around the speakers. Or consider rolling off bass a bit by EQ. In a small room there will be "room gain", "tuned" by moving the speakers a bit closer or farther from the wall, or using a foam plug, total or partial in the backports to tame the beasties..
I have a small room but it sounds fantastic. I mixed up full absorbers, (5") with some of these absorbers with slats to reflect the hight frequencies. So in basic I made the lows harder to reflect. Keeping the highs give it a less dead sound.
My previous studio was microscopic being 1,5 x 3 metres size with a room height of about 2,5 metres. With acoustic treatment the frequency response was as good as the studios Jesco is showcasing after treatment. The secret is understanding how to fit in huge bass traps in such a small room. For instance, I filled up the whole area under my desk with porous absorbent material, only leaving some space for leg room in the middle. Also, there was plenty of space in under the ceiling. I had 70 cm (more than 2 feet) deep bass traps both front and back in the room as well as a cloud over the listening position.
@@asianguy6174 Yeah, well it wasn't a vocal booth. It was a fully flared studio with several vintage keyboards, e-drums, guitars and stuff. I was aiming to have an acoustically reliable environment for mixing. A flat frequency response is not that critical in a vocal booth, it mostly needs to be properly dampened.
All the great, rational, and evidence-based info on this channel *really* highlights how much snake oil there is in most other similar videos. I've been working on a spare bedroom studio for about a year, and this place is the absolute best.
The guy's hawking an E-Book to fix unfixable 6 foot rooms. You'll wind up on a mailing list forever. He'll collect the ad revenue. It's all about acquiring the largest possible email database. That way he can enjoy revenue from the adspace associated. Very common TH-cam business model.
Warm Audio had a studio tour recently and they showed off this ACTIVE BASS TRAP. It's like black magic or something tbh but apparently they work, you plug one in and you hear a difference, and if it isn't enough you buy another and it works better.
I'm going to startle quite a few people. The smallest possible room is a headset, and you can find "nirvana" with a GOOD one. But furthermore I experimented with audio plugins that allowed me to "dial in" the size of the virtual room and its sonic characteristics. Space, proportions, echo, blend of "dry" and "wet", and other details. The results were stunning. It's something that I fooled around with for fun in the weeks of 'shelter in place' with time to experiment, enjoying music ...with a twist ;-) NOT something to adopt and use. Definitely unserious.
The tiny "room" in headphones pushes the resonances up into the kHz range, and your skin, earpads as well as other materials within the headphones are huge absorbers and diffusers relative to the "room" size, so the acoustics are not comparable to that of loudspeakers in an actual room.
I used to own a professionally designed and built from scratch recording studio constructed by an elite high end acoustic studio engineering firm-- Pilsner and Associates-- Toronto There were two control rooms and both sounded excellent. However, Control room B which was a bedroom sized, squarish, with high ceiling was an after thought-- an extra room good enough for editing. I don't have the dimensions anymore but, it looked all wrong like a small 10' square bedroom. But, sounded fabulous. I don't know why; it just did.
I have been in two "pro" studios, several home studios, and my three personal studios. One bed room control room, one "standardized" ( scientific equation type shape) control room and one odd designed control room. My new "standardized designed" control room is still being set up and so I don't know what is will produce, but it sounds great just being in it. The two pro studios, each not very advanced based on todays standards, had completely different sounds equaling completely different products. The best sound and product came out of a very shallow and very wide control room. Large JBL 4333 speakers were their only monitors. The mix in that room was exactly the same in my home stereo and my car stereo. So obviously the room size and shape have very little to do with the finished product.
Realistic and scientific. I really appreciate these kinds of videos that are tremendously realistic, and this is the info that it's worth. New subscriber.
Starting from 8:18… Stuck with what we got. Speakers placed and listening position established. Treatment placement? E.g. “dead[er] wall” behind instead of in front?
So I went through all your videos, very valuable stuff! Thank you for putting this out there. To sum up this channel: fix your listening position and do broadband absorbers.
Please consider that „size of a class room“ can mean very different things for people around the world, and is very vague in any case. A range in meters/feet would be more helpful
Average primary school school classroom here in the UK anyway is at least double or three times the size of most people's living rooms in the UK. And UK secondary school the classrooms are even bigger. I remember my chemistry classroom was massive.
@@C--A Still not helpful though. My wife watches Escape to the Country most afternoons and even the country houses have tiny living rooms compared to the average Australian living room (we usually say lounge room), even when compared to Australian government housing lounge rooms. It's very hard to talk about what's average on an international platform.
the subwoofer size doesn't matter....bigger capable subwoofer WILL play lower ..smaller sub won't go as low but will still be able to fill in the room..small room overall = lots of room gain ..think of it like this..why do people even put an 18 inch in a car ?? thats many times smaller than ANY room ...yet they still do it and it STILL works
School classrooms are pretty huge, I don't think I know a single person with a spare room that size. Sounds like you'd have to set up in your living room or something to get that kind of space.
@@robertmedina3982 You may be able to get around the need to worry about the room you're mixing in by investing in a good pair of openback headphones, a virtual mix room plugin like Waves NX, and Sonarworks Sound ID Reference to flatten the frequency response of your headphones. It took some effort and careful research but I believe I have gotten as close as possible to removing considerations for the acoustic space from the equation entirely.
My NYC apartment is both acoustically too small and financially too expensive. Luckily, the byproduct of living in my recording area is that it is filled with stuff so it sounds fairly good.
Let's just enjoy the music and movies .My room is 8 by 12 feet with a ten foot ceiling. It sounds better than a movie theater and movie theaters are huge. I think some small rooms can make a huge difference in sound especially with the right panels like absorbers and diffusers and bass traps . Also depends on size of your speakers 🔊
Your videos are a great source of information, much appreciated. (Being a guitarist I was already obsessed with "the modes", but now I'm also obsessed with "the modes" ;) I've been looking at the amroc mode calculators and I'm trying to understand the significance of the Bolt area and Schroeder frequency. With most dimensions it is difficult to get into the bolt area. While the Schroeder frequency seems to be lower (which I understand would be better) the bigger the room. Let's say I'm building a basement room for music practice and critical listening. The available area would be 545 cm x 520 with a height of 247 cm, which is way off the Bolt chart. Would it be advisable to make it smaller, like 545 x 398 x 247 instead, to get into the Bolt area?
Man, I really like the approach "what can you expect out of what you have and how can you get the most out of it with the least effort/$". That's what I need!!! and I think you're on that track, so... new subscriber and hope to check on your stuff soon.
Great video! Will you sometims offer some of your ways how to create those absorbers, which do also partly diffusion (like the ones in your background for example)?
Can you make video in regards power I. E. Running cable from DB box, dedicated ac line, mcb and etc. Are this matter in sound. Especially on the sort of cable to you comparing to normal copper cable used in house hold
Great video Jesco! my room is 300x320x320 cm! Hope is not that terrible! I placed 20 home made acoustic pannels 10cm deep filled with rockwool. I use yamahas hs5
@@carlitomelon4610 no, I don’t think he needs to move. Start by making the room a-symmetrical, by making the back wall not straight, or one of the side walls. Using a-symmetrical placement of furniture (preferably absorbing like a couch or reflective) might also help.
Aren't standing waves the same as room modes and doesn't the lowest frequency in a series of harmonics have a wave length twice the dimension of the room? That would mean that larger rooms would support lower octave modes than smaller rooms. Also, given that the number of modes per octave increases with each octave up the spectrum, it is the higher octaves that are most problematic for room modes. I am very familiar with room modes as I managed an auditorium PA for 30 years & have demonstrated the effect in a 200 seat space, simply by playing a single tone & walking around it to hear the beating & moving only a few feet to show how the tone can completely disappear. I have never experienced low frequency modes like that in a small domestic room. So from experience & from theory requiring a wave node at each room boundary, you need a bigger room to develop longer wave length (lower frequency) standing waves. I know I have encountered 1/2, full & multiple wave modes, but I don't recall ever encountering 1/4 wave modes which require a closed wall at one end and an opening at the other like a pan flute tube which is the most familiar such example. I make those & quenas so am very familiar with harmonic theory.
Great information! I realize your videos are about setting up larger recording/listening rooms, but I find it interesting that many, if not most, voice talent choose a recording booth that is typically 1.5m x 1.5m x 2.1m high, or even smaller, and then line them with thin foam because they have little room to work with for treatment. Wouldn't they have huge issues with the standing waves you mention?
In a vocal booth the performer would usually be wearing headphones and the absorption panels only need to deal with the range of the human voice not the low bass which comes from studio monitors. Frequencies in the range of the human voice are much easier to absorb with thinner material.
@@chrx_chrx please be right. I’m loosing sleep on weather to use my small 3 feet and 5 inches by 10 feet with a 9 foot ceiling. All my cork board and foam is waiting in the corner of my room collecting dust. I have equipment in brown boxes. Will be using monitor headphones.
@@robertmedina3982 Well my comment related to vocal booths... what are you trying to achieve? record vocals or instruments? or mix/produce? The video above if I remember rightly is focused on mixing i.e. a control room setup.
@@robertmedina3982 Ok so you don't really need to worry about serious acoustic treatment especially if you are just planning on working on headphones. Just set up some thin foam panels around the area where your microphone is going to be and that will be totally fine. You're just trying to remove the sound of the room reverb from getting in the microphone (a little bit getting through is fine). Just experiment until your voice recordings sound clear. I have a few friends who do voice over work and have set up microphones in their wardrobes so the clothes absorb the reflections. Wouldn't work for music with lots of bass but for voice it works great.
It depends, you can record in different parts of a room if you like what it does to the sound. Instrument and mic position is a creative choice, you may not want to most neutral position. Move the mic up and down the neck of a guitar and the sound changes dramatically. One position will sound like what you hear when you play, but that may not be as exciting sounding as another position etc.
Looking for some help here. I have a steep slope room, and planning to turn it to a home theatre. Dimensions are, 14.5 feet wide, 19.5 feet long, only 8.5 feet of ceiling is 9 feet tall and then slope down to 4 feet tall (about 11 feet long). Will this room treatable for a home theater room? If yes, which side should I use as a front, tall or low side? Thank you in advance!
5x5 (assuming you mean metres) is not a small listening room or studio by any means. My listening room is smaller than that, and I get great sound without any room treatment beyond a sofa, rug, curtains and bookshelves. This whole idea of acoustic treatment and sound absorption panels is crazy to me. I get that some rooms - even some big rooms - are 'difficult' acoustically, but getting the right speaker positions and the right listening position just takes a bit of experimenting. If you're thinking of spending money on acoustic treatment, stop; it just means you've just not found the right speaker/listening position yet.
great explanation , I've been looking for this for a week now , so is a 5x5 meters room considered small ? I'm planning on having the recording booth within that room too
i can sing a song about standing waves in the audible bass range in small rooms after making the mistake of putting a subwoofer into my 13 squaremeter room.
What do if I can only put bass traps in 2 corners? I can only put them on the walls where my speakers are on. The other 2 corners behind my back have a window and door.
Hello Jesco, very useful videos you make. In my case I need to choose between HS7 and HS8 for my room. I'm a guitarist who use the monitors to play with my guitar processors and modelers. The room dimensions are 4.3x2.7x2.7 m. Would you recommend me one over the other? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
How about recording vocals in a small room, 14ft Length x 9ft Width x 7.6ft Height. What kind of aspect I should worry about to get good vocals in this room?
The problem I have is 1. I'm moving to a new apartment with a very small room (255cm x 365cm) 2. One of the 255cm sides is full of doors (the room door and closet doors) 3. The other one is a wall with a window --> can't install bass traps to the side with doors. :/ I'm not really sure what to do with this room... I do mixing btw.
Will a speaker capable of reproducing say 40Hz not be able to produce those frequencies in a very small room, because the wavelength can't complete it's cycle? Or is this a myth, does the wave simply bounce off the rear wall to complete it's cycle and that is where standing waves come from?
im in a 360cmx360xcmx270cm so called square room . when i test my room on AMROC ,, seem not so many crowed standing waves ? even good than ur 9m x 6m x4m ? why ?
Thank you for sharing your knowledges with passion...o have one question. Knowing the importance of the ambients for a good sounding room which means not to have a room that Is too dead.... do you think I can have absorbers on my front wall and my back wall with diffuser or Will a book shelf work on my back wall (with no absorber just diffuser or book self). Thank you for your answer
Great video, thanks. It’s nice to hear some clear advice that normal people can understand 🙂. I’m just about to set up my studio in what I’m sure would be considered a less-than-ideal space - the low ceiling height being the worst dimension (the room measures L 4.1 - W 2.8 - H 2.1m). I’ve got plenty of acoustic absorbers though from the previous studio, varying in thickness, so should be enough to do any basic treatment that I need to. One of the many issues is that I can only really use the walls on the long side for my desk/monitors due to various constraints (two sets of doors basically). I know that I should have the monitors pointing down the length, not the width ideally, but there’s really nothing I can do about that. Any advice from you or people in the comment section would be greatly appreciated! Some of my questions are: 1) how much does the material that the room is constructed from affect the sound? Mine is made from a softwood frame and the walls are OSB (construction fibre board) with 50mm Celotex insulation board behind, then thick softwood cladding - it’s a garden building). 2) how does the actually volume of the sound affect the room modes or how do you calculate it? 3) how important is ceiling-based absorption given my low ceiling? I can just about fit panels and still be able to stand up straight 🙂 Thanks.
What’s more important The room space and materials or the actual sound your system is emitting? If you like the sound of your music system that should be what you are aiming for..
Hey I just pray that I get a reply…. I’m moving to a new home in there is a servant room that is 2.5m*2.6m just wanted to know if I can make it a recording room with music system
Hi Jesco, thank you very much for your video, it was very useful! In my case, my home studio is given not so much in terms of mixing but of recording classical guitars and vocals. How do you recommend positioning the microphones when the room is very small? Which are the things to consider? Thanks a lot!
So a 10 x 11 x 9 room isn’t too small? After listening position and monitor placement, what’s the most likely problems needing to be addressed with acoustic treatment? I’ve read that early reflection panels should be thicker to tame some bass there as well
Thanks for this video, it was exactly the kind of information I was after. I was about to start the building of a box-in-a-box mini studio (as a part of my garage). Width: 1m80 (length: 3m60) , so exactly the absolute minimum you are talking about, so I will cancel that plan, I guess. Maybe I will build a cabin in my garden, but first I need to start recalculation my budget obviously. When mixing I could use headphones of course, but while jamming or playing that's a no go for me. So that takes my to my decision to look for another solution: I never play on the exact same spot, so it 's kind of hopeless for me in the garage. :)
He is talking about a control (mixing room), you could record in that room you mentioned, you just need to make the room sound nice and this does not necessarily mean an acoustically transparent room.
Thank you for your videos! I've learned a lot from you. It's been a long time I've been using headphones for mixing, but it's time to start working with a real room monitoring system. That said, I had to discover the whole topic you're talking about and it's HUGE. Thankfully, you're making it easier for me to understand. Still have a question about room dimension: what if there's a huge wardrobe covering alomst the entire wall length & height? Should it be calculated as a part of the room or as a hard surface? I know it could be tricky as if I open all the doors it starts to work as a irregular diffuser, but I'm still in doubt. What would you suggest?
I don't think my problem is that my room is too small, but it's not a perfect rectangle. It's somewhat oddly shaped on one side of the room. Is this a problem if my speakers are facing the oddly shaped part, but behind them is a normal wall? I could provide pictures next week after I move in if needed
I have a small room, roughly 10 by 14 and a half. I purchased 5 producers blankets from vocal booth to go,(96' by 80'). Will I still need some absorption panels? or can I use them as absorption and bass traps?.... THANKS SO MUCH
No way blankets will absorb any low end. If you end up just absorbing high frequencies, you will probably make the sound less balanced than having no absorption at all.
Depending on how tall the room is, you could look at bass trapping all the room's top corners, and ceilings very significantly (top third). Then at least you won't loose to much usable space to that, especially when sitting. And then, the mid to lower corners, do as much as you can; given the size. If you can trap most corners floor to ceiling, with as deep a pyramid as you can get away with, that's worth doing with DiY mineral wool corner traps. Also, treat the first reflection points, including being aware of equipment that's on your desk between you and your speakers. A smaller narrower desk, but with speakers on tall heavy speaker stands, with tweeters directly at ear level is better than those big studio desks with shelves for speakers / monitors. Treat the reflection points on the ceiling , desk area (big mixing desks are a nightmare), behind your seating position with more thorough treatment. At least 4" panels, I think - but they don't have to cover huge areas, if placed accurately at the exact 1st reflection point where the tweeter line hits the walls above, to the side, below on desk, and behind your ears on back wall. It can be better to mount a display larger monitor or even a use a large TV on the wall BEHIND the speakers, so there's no reflection off the back / sides of a computer monitor in front of them. I also place as much bass trapping as I can, under the desk, in spaces I don't use anyway. I experimented with adding a spare mattress at the back wall in the room, pinned in by a small 2 seater couch, that helped too, just make sure it can't fall over and domino your mic into your computer monitor then knock down your speaker/speaker stands :) If it's your home, you can get double use of studio as the storage place for all your heavy winter duvets, parka jackets, wool jumpers on open shelves. All your heavy old books, magazines randomly arranged on open shelves can function for diffusion too.
excellent video, im just curious how do you think this would relate to a home DJ room where I just want it to sound as good as possible at high volume? When 'producing' music the accuracy is critical, but when DJing you just want it to sound good, or 'full', so accuracy is less important than the feel. My current room is 4m x 3.5m, what would you suggest is the best way to optimise a space of that size for DJing and listening back?
Sadly, it only sounds "good" and "full" when the sound is accurate enough. I built a tons of rooms from tiny ass room to concert hall. Only smooth response rooms sound good. Forget your idea please.
@@patrolduty8715 isnt that slightly subjective, ive been in clubs where the sound system clearly wasn’t designed by Richard Long, and yet it sounded great…which could be attributed to a number of different things outside of ‘accuracy’.
@@Nosh_Feratu Man, if you think it sounds great with just an untreated room. It will sound muhc much more great with a high-end treated room. You just dont know what you have lost.
Many of my clients dont even realized their own sound system when put it in the SAME room after we treated. And they just blame them self for not doing it sooner. Before treatment, they already feel quite good with their high-end system (some of them cost more than a million dollars).
@@patrolduty8715 I think the problem is that we’re Replying to a question I asked over 2 years ago, ive moved house and spent several thousand on GIK Acoustics since then. Also, over the past 35 years ive been to Twilo, M.O.S in London, and heard numerous other amazing systems, but I’ve also heard systems at shitty little clubs which sounded far better than they should, that was my point in my last reply. A good system and proper treatment is ALWAYS going to sound better, I think we can all agree on that.
Hi Jesco, thanks for the video. So my room is 420cm x 320cm and a height of 260cm. Is it worth adding absorption panels (they could fit but if they don't make a difference maybe it's not worth it)? Thanks.
Hi, So do I understand correctly, that first I need to find base sweetspot, and then put all panels on first reflections? I am now set my listening position at roughly 35-40% of length, on Friday I plan to get monitors. I'm also almost ready to put panels (bass traps in place already). So sequence should be - find sweetspot -> put rest of the panels? I mean can it move that much so that I would need to reposition the panels if I do them first?
Late reply but order is, find the best listening position using the bass hunter technique, then use the phantom speaker technique to place monitors, then add treatment.
Great video, thanks! I will have to move to a terrible room with my Hi-Fi, 4.20x4.16x 2.20cm so the dreaded square! Do I have any options to improve a room as this ?
@@xaz7088 thanks ,iv got a bit of a nightmare room [in the loft ]. as its about 3.5meters square but only 1.6 meters high in the middle then tapers down to 90 cm , so no standing room hahahah , but its the only place I can make some noise I'm no 100 percent about the sound ill always get problems , nice video
@@yamansitar6153 small room always have some types of problems but could be resolved with a bit of thinkering. What do you like to do there? Recording, mixing or both? Continue follow this channel, is great! Anyway check out caruso isobond, they are cheap panels and work great if you learn how to place them. Best regards
@@xaz7088 hi , mostly mixing , and a bit of recording ,I use the reference 4 which helps I think. ,, sometime when I listen back a lot of the tracks are bass heavy.
In a small room you can't expect miracles. I would settle for a mid to NEAR FIELD scenario with a FIXED listening point, a basic TRIANGLE, no speakers in corners, a comfortable armchair and not too much energy pumped into the room. Rearranging may prove necessary to find the optimal points. Beware of troughs/nulls. There may be a huge peak a meter away, but if it's out of your listening point you can disregard it. Move out of troughs.
Then, possibly damping or bass traps to absorb surplus bass, particularly behind and around the speakers. Or consider rolling off bass a bit by EQ. In a small room there will be "room gain", "tuned" by moving the speakers a bit closer or farther from the wall, or using a foam plug, total or partial in the backports to tame the beasties..
I have a small room but it sounds fantastic. I mixed up full absorbers, (5") with some of these absorbers with slats to reflect the hight frequencies. So in basic I made the lows harder to reflect. Keeping the highs give it a less dead sound.
How big is your room
My previous studio was microscopic being 1,5 x 3 metres size with a room height of about 2,5 metres. With acoustic treatment the frequency response was as good as the studios Jesco is showcasing after treatment. The secret is understanding how to fit in huge bass traps in such a small room. For instance, I filled up the whole area under my desk with porous absorbent material, only leaving some space for leg room in the middle. Also, there was plenty of space in under the ceiling. I had 70 cm (more than 2 feet) deep bass traps both front and back in the room as well as a cloud over the listening position.
That’s huge for a vocal booth for VoiceOver
@@asianguy6174 Yeah, well it wasn't a vocal booth. It was a fully flared studio with several vintage keyboards, e-drums, guitars and stuff. I was aiming to have an acoustically reliable environment for mixing. A flat frequency response is not that critical in a vocal booth, it mostly needs to be properly dampened.
All the great, rational, and evidence-based info on this channel *really* highlights how much snake oil there is in most other similar videos. I've been working on a spare bedroom studio for about a year, and this place is the absolute best.
The guy's hawking an E-Book to fix unfixable 6 foot rooms. You'll wind up on a mailing list forever. He'll collect the ad revenue. It's all about acquiring the largest possible email database. That way he can enjoy revenue from the adspace associated. Very common TH-cam business model.
@@oinkooink Honestly, I haven't been all that thrilled with the latest sponsored videos.... directly goes against what I said in this comment.
@@davidkulmaczewski4911 He's a shill
Warm Audio had a studio tour recently and they showed off this ACTIVE BASS TRAP. It's like black magic or something tbh but apparently they work, you plug one in and you hear a difference, and if it isn't enough you buy another and it works better.
Very good discription, thanks. All the home theater guys seem to think they're REW will fix anything
I'm going to startle quite a few people. The smallest possible room is a headset, and you can find "nirvana" with a GOOD one.
But furthermore I experimented with audio plugins that allowed me to "dial in" the size of the virtual room and its sonic characteristics. Space, proportions, echo, blend of "dry" and "wet", and other details. The results were stunning.
It's something that I fooled around with for fun in the weeks of 'shelter in place' with time to experiment, enjoying music ...with a twist ;-) NOT something to adopt and use. Definitely unserious.
The tiny "room" in headphones pushes the resonances up into the kHz range, and your skin, earpads as well as other materials within the headphones are huge absorbers and diffusers relative to the "room" size, so the acoustics are not comparable to that of loudspeakers in an actual room.
I used to own a professionally designed and built from scratch recording studio constructed by an elite high end acoustic studio engineering firm-- Pilsner and Associates-- Toronto There were two control rooms and both sounded excellent. However, Control room B which was a bedroom sized, squarish, with high ceiling was an after thought-- an extra room good enough for editing. I don't have the dimensions anymore but, it looked all wrong like a small 10' square bedroom. But, sounded fabulous. I don't know why; it just did.
I have been in two "pro" studios, several home studios, and my three personal studios. One bed room control room, one "standardized" ( scientific equation type shape) control room and one odd designed control room. My new "standardized designed" control room is still being set up and so I don't know what is will produce, but it sounds great just being in it. The two pro studios, each not very advanced based on todays standards, had completely different sounds equaling completely different products. The best sound and product came out of a very shallow and very wide control room. Large JBL 4333 speakers were their only monitors. The mix in that room was exactly the same in my home stereo and my car stereo. So obviously the room size and shape have very little to do with the finished product.
Realistic and scientific. I really appreciate these kinds of videos that are tremendously realistic, and this is the info that it's worth. New subscriber.
Starting from 8:18… Stuck with what we got. Speakers placed and listening position established. Treatment placement? E.g. “dead[er] wall” behind instead of in front?
So I went through all your videos, very valuable stuff! Thank you for putting this out there. To sum up this channel: fix your listening position and do broadband absorbers.
Please consider that „size of a class room“ can mean very different things for people around the world, and is very vague in any case. A range in meters/feet would be more helpful
Average primary school school classroom here in the UK anyway is at least double or three times the size of most people's living rooms in the UK.
And UK secondary school the classrooms are even bigger. I remember my chemistry classroom was massive.
@@C--A Still not helpful though. My wife watches Escape to the Country most afternoons and even the country houses have tiny living rooms compared to the average Australian living room (we usually say lounge room), even when compared to Australian government housing lounge rooms. It's very hard to talk about what's average on an international platform.
“At the absolute limit, no dimension should be smaller than around 1.80m”
@@mevynofficial1683 Yes, but then that just adds to the confusion, as no classroom nor living room is that remotely that small.
@mevynofficial1683 this is the border for a too small room, and not between small and not small
Just start mixing on open back headphones and get a spectrum analyzer.
Please, please, make a video about the size of the subwoofer that is needed for a room. (my room is 4x4 meters). Thank You very much.
the subwoofer size doesn't matter....bigger capable subwoofer WILL play lower ..smaller sub won't go as low but will still be able to fill in the room..small room overall = lots of room gain ..think of it like this..why do people even put an 18 inch in a car ?? thats many times smaller than ANY room ...yet they still do it and it STILL works
School classrooms are pretty huge, I don't think I know a single person with a spare room that size. Sounds like you'd have to set up in your living room or something to get that kind of space.
When he said that,, I was so discouraged almost heart broken.. I think I will use my closet.
@@robertmedina3982 You may be able to get around the need to worry about the room you're mixing in by investing in a good pair of openback headphones, a virtual mix room plugin like Waves NX, and Sonarworks Sound ID Reference to flatten the frequency response of your headphones. It took some effort and careful research but I believe I have gotten as close as possible to removing considerations for the acoustic space from the equation entirely.
@@CYB3RC0RP that sounds like sound advice and is appreciated. Thanks again.
@@robertmedina3982 I hope it helps! If you need any elaboration I'd be happy to help the best I can.
@@CYB3RC0RP thanks.
My NYC apartment is both acoustically too small and financially too expensive. Luckily, the byproduct of living in my recording area is that it is filled with stuff so it sounds fairly good.
I found this video was helpful and explained very well. I'm just starting to get into acoustics treatment. Thank you for passing along your knowledge
My son does podcasts in his bedroom so mostly voice it’s 11’x11’x8’ with a 2’x2’ doorway and a closet with no door 8’x2’
The size of the average classroom?!!! In the US, that’s huge!! Enough for 30 people.
In a talk with Booth Junkie you said the smaller booth was you need way more absorption. 8 inches in the example you gave.
Let's just enjoy the music and movies .My room is 8 by 12 feet with a ten foot ceiling. It sounds better than a movie theater and movie theaters are huge. I think some small rooms can make a huge difference in sound especially with the right panels like absorbers and diffusers and bass traps . Also depends on size of your speakers 🔊
I have a room 2m x 4m and 2.5m high with a round ceiling is it possible to use this as a homestudio?
Such golden and useful information, you are great man!
These videos are Pure GOLD! Thanks a lot for sharing!
Hahaha great title and video mate! There is no room too small and gear too great... I am very satisficed with my minimalistic Music computing set up.
Yeah, there is no room too small to sound good... if you are using headphones.
@Acoustics insider
Sir would you mind share info on the absorb/diffuser panel right behind you?
Thx, super video as always 🎩♥️
Your videos are a great source of information, much appreciated.
(Being a guitarist I was already obsessed with "the modes", but now I'm also obsessed with "the modes" ;)
I've been looking at the amroc mode calculators and I'm trying to understand the significance of the Bolt area and Schroeder frequency. With most dimensions it is difficult to get into the bolt area.
While the Schroeder frequency seems to be lower (which I understand would be better) the bigger the room.
Let's say I'm building a basement room for music practice and critical listening. The available area would be 545 cm x 520 with a height of 247 cm, which is way off the Bolt chart. Would it be advisable to make it smaller, like 545 x 398 x 247 instead, to get into the Bolt area?
Man, I really like the approach "what can you expect out of what you have and how can you get the most out of it with the least effort/$". That's what I need!!! and I think you're on that track, so... new subscriber and hope to check on your stuff soon.
Great video! Will you sometims offer some of your ways how to create those absorbers, which do also partly diffusion (like the ones in your background for example)?
You have to pay for his course to get those plans.
Great video. Question, how is it that cars get such great bass in such a small interior?
Please post more about vocal booths.
Can you make video in regards power I. E. Running cable from DB box, dedicated ac line, mcb and etc.
Are this matter in sound. Especially on the sort of cable to you comparing to normal copper cable used in house hold
Thanks alot for the guidance 🙏💐 💖
I was wondering about monitor bass port location(front or back) in a small room , does that matter at all if you have room treatment?
Rear firing ports cause allot more problems in my experience . I think you would need more treatment for rear firing ports atleast more bass traps.
Amazing. Thank you so much!
Great video Jesco! my room is 300x320x320 cm! Hope is not that terrible! I placed 20 home made acoustic pannels 10cm deep filled with rockwool. I use yamahas hs5
A cube is a terrible room mode magnet...all the modes occur at about 60hz.
Move?
@@carlitomelon4610 no, I don’t think he needs to move. Start by making the room a-symmetrical, by making the back wall not straight, or one of the side walls. Using a-symmetrical placement of furniture (preferably absorbing like a couch or reflective) might also help.
This is a great series Jesco 👍
My room is 10 x 10. 😪 my bass really messed up. Trying to figure out how to fix it
I make beats in a 2.2m x 2.4m and 2m height booth.
All walls are made of absorbing fabrics.
What size speaker should I use?
Would the same apply if I’m looking to only track vocals in a small room instead of mixing?
Good video Jesco. Where should we place the first bass trap on our room. Front wall, corner, side, back wall, ceiling???
for speakers radiate bass energy in all directions, bass energy will be the highest in all front corners
Good pointers but “low end sweet spot” is probably where you’re low end is summing up from the comb filtering.. just a heads up there
Would a small room benefit from diffusion? Or absorbers/diffuser?
Aren't standing waves the same as room modes and doesn't the lowest frequency in a series of harmonics have a wave length twice the dimension of the room? That would mean that larger rooms would support lower octave modes than smaller rooms.
Also, given that the number of modes per octave increases with each octave up the spectrum, it is the higher octaves that are most problematic for room modes. I am very familiar with room modes as I managed an auditorium PA for 30 years & have demonstrated the effect in a 200 seat space, simply by playing a single tone & walking around it to hear the beating & moving only a few feet to show how the tone can completely disappear.
I have never experienced low frequency modes like that in a small domestic room. So from experience & from theory requiring a wave node at each room boundary, you need a bigger room to develop longer wave length (lower frequency) standing waves.
I know I have encountered 1/2, full & multiple wave modes, but I don't recall ever encountering 1/4 wave modes which require a closed wall at one end and an opening at the other like a pan flute tube which is the most familiar such example. I make those & quenas so am very familiar with harmonic theory.
Great information! I realize your videos are about setting up larger recording/listening rooms, but I find it interesting that many, if not most, voice talent choose a recording booth that is typically 1.5m x 1.5m x 2.1m high, or even smaller, and then line them with thin foam because they have little room to work with for treatment. Wouldn't they have huge issues with the standing waves you mention?
In a vocal booth the performer would usually be wearing headphones and the absorption panels only need to deal with the range of the human voice not the low bass which comes from studio monitors. Frequencies in the range of the human voice are much easier to absorb with thinner material.
@@chrx_chrx please be right. I’m loosing sleep on weather to use my small 3 feet and 5 inches by 10 feet with a 9 foot ceiling. All my cork board and foam is waiting in the corner of my room collecting dust. I have equipment in brown boxes. Will be using monitor headphones.
@@robertmedina3982 Well my comment related to vocal booths... what are you trying to achieve? record vocals or instruments? or mix/produce? The video above if I remember rightly is focused on mixing i.e. a control room setup.
@@chrx_chrx podcast and voice overs only.
@@robertmedina3982 Ok so you don't really need to worry about serious acoustic treatment especially if you are just planning on working on headphones. Just set up some thin foam panels around the area where your microphone is going to be and that will be totally fine. You're just trying to remove the sound of the room reverb from getting in the microphone (a little bit getting through is fine). Just experiment until your voice recordings sound clear. I have a few friends who do voice over work and have set up microphones in their wardrobes so the clothes absorb the reflections. Wouldn't work for music with lots of bass but for voice it works great.
I think the answer is: yes it its!! lol; In a very small room shouldn't your listening position also be your mic position, or sound source position?
It depends, you can record in different parts of a room if you like what it does to the sound. Instrument and mic position is a creative choice, you may not want to most neutral position. Move the mic up and down the neck of a guitar and the sound changes dramatically. One position will sound like what you hear when you play, but that may not be as exciting sounding as another position etc.
For small room should you go for thicker acoustic panels ??
Will the SAM system of Genelec solve the problem of small room?
Looking for some help here.
I have a steep slope room, and planning to turn it to a home theatre. Dimensions are, 14.5 feet wide, 19.5 feet long, only 8.5 feet of ceiling is 9 feet tall and then slope down to 4 feet tall (about 11 feet long). Will this room treatable for a home theater room? If yes, which side should I use as a front, tall or low side? Thank you in advance!
I'm in a 5x5 room and it's fine.
5x5 (assuming you mean metres) is not a small listening room or studio by any means. My listening room is smaller than that, and I get great sound without any room treatment beyond a sofa, rug, curtains and bookshelves. This whole idea of acoustic treatment and sound absorption panels is crazy to me. I get that some rooms - even some big rooms - are 'difficult' acoustically, but getting the right speaker positions and the right listening position just takes a bit of experimenting. If you're thinking of spending money on acoustic treatment, stop; it just means you've just not found the right speaker/listening position yet.
great explanation , I've been looking for this for a week now , so is a 5x5 meters room considered small ?
I'm planning on having the recording booth within that room too
i can sing a song about standing waves in the audible bass range in small rooms after making the mistake of putting a subwoofer into my 13 squaremeter room.
Surely a good, well dialled-in subwoofer should help depending, of course, on the size/power of your main speakers.
When you say 6ft is the bare minimum (short wall). Is this 6ft prior to treatment or 6ft post treatment? Thanks
Prior to treatment
@@samindj What do you think of PET panels as opposed to Mineral wool?
9 meters is huge!!
What do if I can only put bass traps in 2 corners? I can only put them on the walls where my speakers are on. The other 2 corners behind my back have a window and door.
Hello Jesco, very useful videos you make. In my case I need to choose between HS7 and HS8 for my room. I'm a guitarist who use the monitors to play with my guitar processors and modelers. The room dimensions are 4.3x2.7x2.7 m. Would you recommend me one over the other? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
How about recording vocals in a small room, 14ft Length x 9ft Width x 7.6ft Height. What kind of aspect I should worry about to get good vocals in this room?
hi my room dimensions are 15.5x13.6 should I consider adding wall
The problem I have is
1. I'm moving to a new apartment with a very small room (255cm x 365cm)
2. One of the 255cm sides is full of doors (the room door and closet doors)
3. The other one is a wall with a window
--> can't install bass traps to the side with doors. :/
I'm not really sure what to do with this room... I do mixing btw.
Isn't a flimsy door sort of a bass trap?
Use headphone
Will a speaker capable of reproducing say 40Hz not be able to produce those frequencies in a very small room, because the wavelength can't complete it's cycle? Or is this a myth, does the wave simply bounce off the rear wall to complete it's cycle and that is where standing waves come from?
im in a 360cmx360xcmx270cm so called square room . when i test my room on AMROC ,, seem not so many crowed standing waves ? even good than ur 9m x 6m x4m ? why ?
Thank you for sharing your knowledges with passion...o have one question.
Knowing the importance of the ambients for a good sounding room which means not to have a room that Is too dead.... do you think I can have absorbers on my front wall and my back wall with diffuser or Will a book shelf work on my back wall (with no absorber just diffuser or book self).
Thank you for your answer
Great video, thanks. It’s nice to hear some clear advice that normal people can understand 🙂. I’m just about to set up my studio in what I’m sure would be considered a less-than-ideal space - the low ceiling height being the worst dimension (the room measures L 4.1 - W 2.8 - H 2.1m). I’ve got plenty of acoustic absorbers though from the previous studio, varying in thickness, so should be enough to do any basic treatment that I need to.
One of the many issues is that I can only really use the walls on the long side for my desk/monitors due to various constraints (two sets of doors basically). I know that I should have the monitors pointing down the length, not the width ideally, but there’s really nothing I can do about that.
Any advice from you or people in the comment section would be greatly appreciated!
Some of my questions are:
1) how much does the material that the room is constructed from affect the sound? Mine is made from a softwood frame and the walls are OSB (construction fibre board) with 50mm Celotex insulation board behind, then thick softwood cladding - it’s a garden building).
2) how does the actually volume of the sound affect the room modes or how do you calculate it?
3) how important is ceiling-based absorption given my low ceiling? I can just about fit panels and still be able to stand up straight 🙂
Thanks.
What’s more important
The room space and materials or the actual sound your system is emitting?
If you like the sound of your music system that should be what you are aiming for..
Excellent video. And rhe truth.. Majority are scratching their heads thinking what's going on. 😂😂😂😂
As always, thanks a lot for the info \m/
Brilliant explanations. Thank you Jesco :-)
Hey I just pray that I get a reply…. I’m moving to a new home in there is a servant room that is 2.5m*2.6m just wanted to know if I can make it a recording room with music system
Hi Jesco, thank you very much for your video, it was very useful! In my case, my home studio is given not so much in terms of mixing but of recording classical guitars and vocals. How do you recommend positioning the microphones when the room is very small? Which are the things to consider? Thanks a lot!
Link to access and download guide not working!!
what's the average size of classroom ?
Mine is 6 x 6.
Hi....my bass sweet spot is above the speakers 2-3 feet in front of the sitting spot (equilateral triangle). How to address this ... please help
I kinda wanna get out if the small room
Great chanel!
For my personal experience, I agree with you :)
So a 10 x 11 x 9 room isn’t too small? After listening position and monitor placement, what’s the most likely problems needing to be addressed with acoustic treatment? I’ve read that early reflection panels should be thicker to tame some bass there as well
Use units doug.
@@Karim-ik5ij I'm not saying that I shouldn't have had to use units, but you really think I'd be asking if a 3,248 sq. ft room is small?
@@DouglasComical Lmao Touche :)
Thanks for this video, it was exactly the kind of information I was after. I was about to start the building of a box-in-a-box mini studio (as a part of my garage). Width: 1m80 (length: 3m60) , so exactly the absolute minimum you are talking about, so I will cancel that plan, I guess. Maybe I will build a cabin in my garden, but first I need to start recalculation my budget obviously. When mixing I could use headphones of course, but while jamming or playing that's a no go for me. So that takes my to my decision to look for another solution: I never play on the exact same spot, so it 's kind of hopeless for me in the garage. :)
He is talking about a control (mixing room), you could record in that room you mentioned, you just need to make the room sound nice and this does not necessarily mean an acoustically transparent room.
Length 298cm - Width: 287cm - Height: 250cm - 🤔 Thank You So Much!!
Thank you!
Wow, super illuminating! Thank you!
Thank you for your videos! I've learned a lot from you. It's been a long time I've been using headphones for mixing, but it's time to start working with a real room monitoring system. That said, I had to discover the whole topic you're talking about and it's HUGE. Thankfully, you're making it easier for me to understand.
Still have a question about room dimension: what if there's a huge wardrobe covering alomst the entire wall length & height? Should it be calculated as a part of the room or as a hard surface? I know it could be tricky as if I open all the doors it starts to work as a irregular diffuser, but I'm still in doubt. What would you suggest?
I gave you a plug in my latest video.
Thanks for all you do.
I don't think my problem is that my room is too small, but it's not a perfect rectangle. It's somewhat oddly shaped on one side of the room. Is this a problem if my speakers are facing the oddly shaped part, but behind them is a normal wall? I could provide pictures next week after I move in if needed
I have a small room, roughly 10 by 14 and a half. I purchased 5 producers blankets from vocal booth to go,(96' by 80'). Will I still need some absorption panels? or can I use them as absorption and bass traps?.... THANKS SO MUCH
No way blankets will absorb any low end. If you end up just absorbing high frequencies, you will probably make the sound less balanced than having no absorption at all.
@@kjmusic2541 Thanks for the info
Depending on how tall the room is, you could look at bass trapping all the room's top corners, and ceilings very significantly (top third). Then at least you won't loose to much usable space to that, especially when sitting. And then, the mid to lower corners, do as much as you can; given the size. If you can trap most corners floor to ceiling, with as deep a pyramid as you can get away with, that's worth doing with DiY mineral wool corner traps. Also, treat the first reflection points, including being aware of equipment that's on your desk between you and your speakers. A smaller narrower desk, but with speakers on tall heavy speaker stands, with tweeters directly at ear level is better than those big studio desks with shelves for speakers / monitors. Treat the reflection points on the ceiling , desk area (big mixing desks are a nightmare), behind your seating position with more thorough treatment. At least 4" panels, I think - but they don't have to cover huge areas, if placed accurately at the exact 1st reflection point where the tweeter line hits the walls above, to the side, below on desk, and behind your ears on back wall. It can be better to mount a display larger monitor or even a use a large TV on the wall BEHIND the speakers, so there's no reflection off the back / sides of a computer monitor in front of them. I also place as much bass trapping as I can, under the desk, in spaces I don't use anyway. I experimented with adding a spare mattress at the back wall in the room, pinned in by a small 2 seater couch, that helped too, just make sure it can't fall over and domino your mic into your computer monitor then knock down your speaker/speaker stands :) If it's your home, you can get double use of studio as the storage place for all your heavy winter duvets, parka jackets, wool jumpers on open shelves. All your heavy old books, magazines randomly arranged on open shelves can function for diffusion too.
A small room is mine 14x10x8
excellent video, im just curious how do you think this would relate to a home DJ room where I just want it to sound as good as possible at high volume? When 'producing' music the accuracy is critical, but when DJing you just want it to sound good, or 'full', so accuracy is less important than the feel. My current room is 4m x 3.5m, what would you suggest is the best way to optimise a space of that size for DJing and listening back?
Sadly, it only sounds "good" and "full" when the sound is accurate enough. I built a tons of rooms from tiny ass room to concert hall. Only smooth response rooms sound good. Forget your idea please.
@@patrolduty8715 isnt that slightly subjective, ive been in clubs where the sound system clearly wasn’t designed by Richard Long, and yet it sounded great…which could be attributed to a number of different things outside of ‘accuracy’.
@@Nosh_Feratu Man, if you think it sounds great with just an untreated room. It will sound muhc much more great with a high-end treated room. You just dont know what you have lost.
Many of my clients dont even realized their own sound system when put it in the SAME room after we treated. And they just blame them self for not doing it sooner. Before treatment, they already feel quite good with their high-end system (some of them cost more than a million dollars).
@@patrolduty8715 I think the problem is that we’re
Replying to a question I asked over 2 years ago, ive moved house and spent several thousand on GIK Acoustics since then.
Also, over the past 35 years ive been to Twilo, M.O.S in London, and heard numerous other amazing systems, but I’ve also heard systems at shitty little clubs which sounded far better than they should, that was my point in my last reply. A good system and proper treatment is ALWAYS going to sound better, I think we can all agree on that.
Hi Jesco, thanks for the video. So my room is 420cm x 320cm and a height of 260cm. Is it worth adding absorption panels (they could fit but if they don't make a difference maybe it's not worth it)? Thanks.
If they can be thick enough and possibly with a decent air gap, they will make a difference.
Hi,
So do I understand correctly, that first I need to find base sweetspot, and then put all panels on first reflections? I am now set my listening position at roughly 35-40% of length, on Friday I plan to get monitors. I'm also almost ready to put panels (bass traps in place already). So sequence should be - find sweetspot -> put rest of the panels? I mean can it move that much so that I would need to reposition the panels if I do them first?
Late reply but order is, find the best listening position using the bass hunter technique, then use the phantom speaker technique to place monitors, then add treatment.
Tldr version. If your room is small, better get invested in the hobby of painting
Great video, thanks!
I will have to move to a terrible room with my Hi-Fi, 4.20x4.16x 2.20cm so the dreaded square!
Do I have any options to improve a room as this ?
Is mine too small to have a good experience?
size matters...
9 meters long 6 meters wide is huge compared to a vocal booth
hi all can I work with these dimensions H=2m W=2.4m L3.5m has anybody worked with a similar room
Simply put blankets all around
Actually cackling at how he keeps brining up a "small classroom" as to something you should compare to. What the hell???? lmfao
y Informative and helpful but tbh so sad to hear , especially when you have limited space and just trying to make money for it.
I think most people just want to know the square footage
hi , can I ask what's the software your using , thanks
Roomeqwizard it's freeware
@@xaz7088 thanks ,iv got a bit of a nightmare room [in the loft ]. as its about 3.5meters square but only 1.6 meters high in the middle then tapers down to 90 cm , so no standing room hahahah , but its the only place I can make some noise I'm no 100 percent about the sound ill always get problems , nice video
@@yamansitar6153 small room always have some types of problems but could be resolved with a bit of thinkering. What do you like to do there? Recording, mixing or both? Continue follow this channel, is great! Anyway check out caruso isobond, they are cheap panels and work great if you learn how to place them. Best regards
@@xaz7088 hi , mostly mixing , and a bit of recording ,I use the reference 4 which helps I think. ,, sometime when I listen back a lot of the tracks are bass heavy.
because my room is small, maybe I should give up on speakers and just use headphones?
LxWxH 289x211x209 cm. That's my reality....