Do's And Don'ts Of Room Setup For Audiophiles - www.AcousticFields.com
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In this video, you will see an actual audiophile room with many common set up mistakes. Mistakes that will compete with your stereo imaging, sound stage definition and clarity. Mistakes that will go against everything you are trying to accomplish with your two channel stereo room and system.
For more room acoustic discussions please visit Dennis and the team at www.acousticfields.com - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Just cemented in the chimney and boarded up the windows. Shag carpet will be here next week.
Hahahaha
why not just get rid of the chimney altogether?
Hope you bought enough for the walls too.
Damn, I boarded up the windows 1st so I had to rent a crane to lift up the cement truck so I could pour directly into the chimney
Told my girl I'd have to forget her,
Rather buy me a new ampereter,
So she made tracks saying this is the end now,
My speakers they talk back, they're just two way friends now.
LOL, We are looking at buying a new house. My wife doesn't know it, but every home we look at I mentally picture where my stereo setup would go....Is that bad?
Me too
A wise man once said. It is easier to apologize than to ask permission.
+Giuseppe Marotta HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
btinaustin not a bit mate
I have told my wife about all the acoustic problems in our homes at least several times per week for the past 10 years. Yeah I’m that nutty about acoustics. I can tell if something has been moved, or added or subtracted just by ear alone... and I get a little weird about it. For example, the ottoman position interferes with center channel clarity. She can’t hear it, but knows it bothers me. Our current house was chosen specifically because it has an acoustically detached 400 sq foot room that is twice as long as it is wide, with flat 8’ ceilings. I told her it was to be the theater room... but it had already been discussed thousands of times before, so she already knew. Anyway, a few weeks after moving in I had a team of contractors dismantle the room to run the wires and install the speakers. mount the projector, etc. Needless to say, if it was a surprise to her... it might not have been a welcome one. So... tell your wife. If she objects... get a new wife. :)
Well stated and true. But again, if you don't have a dedicated room but instead are using an L shaped living room with picture windows --- no luck. It'd be useful to have a video on how to deal with rooms that are far from perfect, since that's what many of us are dealing with.
Hi *****
The problem is that irregular shaped rooms create too many acoustical distortions. Equipment set up, side wall reflections, and a host of other variables make these rooms impossible to support accurate musical playback. Some acoustical manufacturers will advise you otherwise in order to sell you product telling you such issues can be overcome... I simply will not. I'd rather be honest with people than make a quick buck off of mis-selling.
Thanks
Dennis
Thats so funny. While you search for the elusive audio nirvana at the end of the rainbow I'll get on and enjoy my music. How that I know my house is completely incompatible with good sound reproduction can save a lot of money by not upgrading my equipment too :)
Indeed. Lots of people enjoyed music on less than ideal equipment.
most of us simply dont have ideal rooms. In which case I say room EQ is your friend.
“I’m seeing some things that are very disturbing.” We’re talking about improper room setup for listening to music here - not ISIS torture videos, right? 😁
Cool, you really know what's going on, you must of seen so many situations to over come, I'm learning more watching your TH-cam tutorials than any other one, great work 👍😉
After watching this, I've come to the conclusion that I'd be better off setting my stereo up in a train station than the room it's in. I'm sad now.
+Shmeh Fleh Room size and volume must be matched to usage. There is a direct relationship between volume and usage. Fill out the room form information and I will compare your room size and volume to our data base. www.acousticfields.com/free-acoustic-treatment-room-analysis-tell-us-room/
Me too... It makes me want to return all my shit. I have 2 windows and 2 sliding glass closet doors. looks like I have to buy a heck of a lot of treatment panels or heavy carpet. covering the closet doors in carpet will look horrible
They make closet doors of glass? What?
seigeengine
Yes they do, but this video is overblown in my opinion. With room correction you can make your system sound pretty damn good. I think you have to know what to listen for to find issues in your room. Because after setting everything up I like my system just fine. Im not worried about acuostics anymore.
Aaron Mcroodle Obviously. The guy is clearly a loon. This entire video basically amounts to "speakers equal distances from the walls, and if your room isn't a perfect featureless box, you might as well just be deaf."
This gentleman obviously doesn't realize most people have their nice stereos in rooms where there is lots of furniture, a kitchen or dining room entrance, lots of windows and odd coves and angles.
It's called a HOUSE.
Virtually any room can be made acoustically pleasing with properly positioned sound absorption panels and bass traps. These things can also be disguised as things like hanging tapestries, floor rugs, and odd shaped art works and upholstered furniture.
+Condor1970 We work with dual usage (living/listening) rooms on a regular basis. The balancing act is always aesthetics versus acoustic function. Men prefer function. Woman prefer appearance. Most of the time, the appearance factor over rides function. Our data and experience do not support your statement that most rooms are dual usage. I would say that the ratio is 40 % dual usage and 60 % dedicated based upon our experience with end users over the last 8 years..
+HurtlockerTwo he is right, you are wrong.
hurtlockertwo. he is right, you are wrong.
stop bitching at FREE information. its all to be taken with a grain of salt and or backed against other resources.
your "End users"... you mean rich people right?
Great points! I have a horrible room, worst then most. I use the McIntosh MEN-220 room correction system. it completely changed my sound in positive ways. Best investment I have ever made. I could not move my room around to accommodate my system, so I decided to use Room Correction and it was amazing how it fixed so many issues. It was most likely less than flying a so called expert to tear up our living space to attempt to correct room issue that can't be corrected without some kind of room correction.
Wish I could afford to fix my theater room like Dennis recommends. He knows his shit. I have used his advice to make my room much better, especially by elevating my two subs at different heights. It replaced that boomy sound smearing with tight impactfull bass. It cleaned up dialogue as a result. You will not find anyone on TH-cam that gives you better advice. Thank you Dennis.
I drive 3 hours a day and i listen to the stereo all the time. The influence of the windows on my sound is the last of my worries. Getting the audio to beat the buzzy Honda engine with a 6800 rpm redline, that is the real issue!
F, Yes, noise is everywhere in a car environment. This is a much different listening environment than a room with windows. I have done extensive noise and absorption work inside a car environment. The noise floor which you are referring to is the first issue that must be dealt with in any mobile audio environment. After that issue is addressed (minimized) then comes absorption and diffusion treatments.
buy a better car that is better acoustically treated, won't be cheap though
Thank you for the great tips. I adjusted my Triton One speakers so that the side walls were equidistant and the imaging improvement was immense.
Thanks !
D, Its all about balance. You must balance the side wall reflections (time delayed room sound) with the direct sound (no room sound) from your loud speakers. The time signature of the reflections from both side walls must have the proper rate and level of absorption. Not all product absorption rates and levels are the same. This is why I spent 8 years developing my foam technology. It has the proper rates and levels.
Every viewer of this video: "Oh man, I purposely installed a closet and a window thinking it would _improve_ my sound. What a beginner's mistake! Good thing I watched this video and learned I shouldn't do that. I guess since I have a closet and window, I should never listen to audio. Learned so much here!"
sound like I should live in a box to get the best sound lol
in a box and ideally the speakers and the listening point should be suspended mid air. :).
That's why movie theaters are boxes.
I hate covering up the only window in my studio, I did it for a long time. I felt like I was in solitary confinement 😂 so came to the conclusion that it was more enjoyable to be in my studio for hours when I can get a break and take a look outside see the trees, plants birds etc... it doesn’t feel like I’m closed up in a box and I get more creative writing music. So I decided to get me a $600 pair of head phones to get the room out the way when mixing, I switch between my speakers 🔊and headphones 🎧 all the time and my room feels alive.
Hi Dennis. Have watched many of your videos. Your knowledge of acoustics and the science of sound is impressive. If I am understanding correctly, there is no perfect room size to conquer all sonic issues. We can, however, minimize these issues to get the best results possible with any given situation. Having said that rooms under 1500 sq ft are not worth considering, the majority of viewers out there, (myself included) are using a spare bedroom which usually falls at, or below that number. Although it is the goal to obtain a final product, our recorded music, as clean as possible without transient frequencies, noise, and the like, our main objective is to sound proof the space we work in so as to keep from having the police show up at our door. lol.
Though I do not subscribe to the "fix it in post" to solve issues that could have been avoided during setup before recording, some issues can be cleaned up in the software. Adding reverb at the final stage, for example, will emulate room size. In short, could you maybe do a video that addresses the small room scenerio which will accomplish a compromise between sound-proofing and best equipment arrangement to achieve the best results? At the end of the day, anyone listening to our masterpieces of musical art will probably have their windows down while driving or have earbuds on. If the song is good, most will forgive a little 200hz rumble...Thank you for your efforts.
I believe this to be a slippery slope. We owe the artist and engineer the tools to create the best sound they can and just as importantly, a room where all sounds can be heard. We owe the music much more. Without history of quality to rely upon as a reference, you do not know if you are advancing the science of sound (music) or going backwards in quality. A compromise at below 200 Hz., reverb to emulate room size, a noisy room, where does the slope begin to turn back to source quality? It doesn't. It just keeps increasing and sliding until anything will pass as sound "quality". We owe our music much more. I know I do.
Thank you too, nicely explained, regards from Australia
I’ve seen many a video about room correction, et. This was among the best, concise, and to the point.
Great to hear!
Thank you for this video! Very informative and I learned a lot.
tehtapemonkey My pleasure, thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.
Thanks
Dennis
Thank you Dennis, for the response. I agree that anything worth doing, is worth doing well. Hence, my research. In addition to the laws of physics, the laws of economics dictate a compromise. In order to develope my craft, I will have to make the best with what I have at this moment. Which equates to thinking " outside the box", ( my 10x14x8ft room) to create the best environment to accomplish that. Its inspiring to learn from one who is at the top in their field. From one who is clinging onto his slippery slope. Thank you for raising the bar.
You're talking about someone who you just watched a video of where they moan that any room more complicated than a box is too difficult. If that's the top of any field, that's terrifying.
Absolutely dense with useful information beginning to end. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Wow! Nice to see instruction from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Thanks.
Thanks. Any time I can help I'm always happy to so drop me a line with any questions. Cheers Dennis
I died when you said "PLEASE no glass" hahaha
T, Yes. Glass has a negative impact on the middle frequency ranges from 800 - 2,000 Hz. I understand the need for small amounts in control rooms. It is function based. However, personal listening rooms and home theaters do not need glass. There is no need to look out the window if the music is good. Use your ears to see the music.
Oh I completely believe you, and I love your videos! Thank you for all the info. Just thought it was funny given the fact that you don’t see a lot of people irked by glass.
If I want to cover my windows, what solutions do you suggest?
T, It all depends on room usage and where the windows are located. I will need to know much more about your room. Fill out the information in this link. Include photos of all room surfaces. www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
T, It depends on your usage. The position of the window for usage determines treatment.
Tamer hillarious! My glass will stay. Don't want any bugs or burglars to steal my expensive equipment
This is what I learned and how I made my at best average Philips HTR5000 sound actually unbelievably good (TL;DR):
1. Equilateral triangle is god
2. Tweeters at ear level (I use only 2 satellites, in stereo)
3. Speakers must face you (toed in so that you can only see their fron when looking directly at them)
Suddenly my "setup" had real soundstage, separation and imaging. Physics is great.
As far as room treatment goes the less echo the better. If you have echo in your room, treatment is the only solution. Echo means reflections. Reflections can lead to all sorts of disasters. Sound is a wave, waves reflect off of surfaces. Obvious, I know.
This guy is like a stern professor. I was thinking “yes, sir” the entire time.
O, The issue today is that there is so much misinformation on the web. There are certain requirements that can not be compromised. It is just physics.
Acoustic Fields I like that, straight to the point and super informative. I didn’t mean to make it sound negative, the video was awesome and probably the best I’ve seen on the subject. On that note you’d make a good physics professor hahah
@@Llamawithjetpack No worries. We all appreciate your following.
wow I just set my living room reference system up before watching this and it's actually 100 percent how I set it up even took out my huge floor model coat rack with huge mirror and it sounded better good stuff man !
T, You are welcome. Thank you for your support.
Thank you for the information. Very well put together and solidly presented. I might suggest doing it a space that's better suited to the content.
H, It is always a balancing act between size/volume/usage. If you keep these three variables in mind in any audio environment, it will serve you well by reducing treatment costs, decreasing material and labor costs, and increasing sound quality. There is no free ride.
Great video! love your videos. Learning a lot from your videos. Appreciate it so much!
Awesome, thank you!
All very good points. Any room with a good system probably is not perfect and needs or would benefit from some acoustic treatment. For my 22x40' living room there is a glass and hard surfaces problem. I thought the floor rug over the uninsulated hardwood floor and 2 sofas would be enough. The 4 4x5' large windows each has a honeycomb vertical shade. Still not enough to stop all the echo and reflections I was hearing. The large glass frame wall art over the enclosed fireplace and large mirror across the room from it and me in the middle of them for my listening position was interfering with my music listening. So I draped 3x4 wool rugs with eggcrate foam behind (about 25% of wall space) and got such a great effect from it, I am a believer in acoustic room treatment for a better listening experience. My sound is dialed in now and fills the space with the warm 70's analog tone but with the clarity of cd which is the sound I have been chasing for years now. I have even ordered acoustic room fabric panels to make the room even sound better and for cleaner design. I also placed carpet tiles under each floor speaker and the sub. Yes, the room is not perfect. But I think my sound has improved 5-10 fold and I am hearing the cd thru the system with much less sonic clutter. I feel like I am hearing my cds the way they were intended for the first time. And yes, though I hate to do it I will probably take down my mirror and glass frame art for even better listening. A painful compromise for sure! But I can listen for hours now with no Fatigue. Sound is warm and focused, no longer hard and bright. And that was not the case before...It's like before I was listening to the sound interact with the room surfaces. Now I listen to just the music thru the mid-fi system closer to how it was intended.
M, What a journey you have had. I am glad you have reached as the British say,"The top of the mountain".
Another excellent video. Thumbs up. However, most of us do not have all of these ideal conditions! My stereo system is up against a wall, but behind it is a window; but covered with curtains, and with a middle light curtain. Therefore, what am I going to do to try to get the ideal, correct sound so that music directed to that central point, or area from the two speakers gets? Later I am going to add a small subwoofer. However, for now what can be done if there is a window in front of the house; the living room?
Very good presentation, thank you!
T, Thank you for your support. We appreciate it.
I have room 15' X 20'. Almost just like drawing in this video. Unfortunately ceilings are only 7' high + right above the coach there is a metal support beam that goes from side to side (it's a basement). When I sat in the middle of the room listening to music, all rear part of the room behind me always felt somehow dead. No reflection was coming out at all. I guess that is because that metal beam on a ceiling which creates some sound barrier . After some experimenting I put in the rear corners another set of speakers .That worked .It's still very far from ideal listening room but it somehow compensates sound in the dead area behind me. I keep rear speakers not as loud as the front ones and this somehow revives whole room acoustically. Looks like there is no better way for this particular room. Anyway thanks for all your videos. I really enjoy them .
This is all great professional advice and well presented. At least it's very informative for room "set-up compromises" because very few family houses have the perfect room for acoustics.
But I'm still a big advocate for the "Gomer Pyle Sweet Spot". If what you hear makes you close your eyes and smile - then that's all you need. :-)
Hi SCMTW,
You are correct. It is the emotional connection to our music that is most important. One way to work towards this goal is to minimize room impact on our presentations.
Very informative video. Thanks for the advice
Glad it was helpful!
Good stuff. My room has some challenges for sure. My system is enjoyable but I would love to hear what dialing in a remedy for my issues would deliver. Left side cavity depth issue. Right side brick fireplace and window with wood blinds.
Fill out the info in this link. Schedule a time slot within the electronic calendar to speak with Dennis
I learned a lot by watching your videos and reading your ebook, Thank you ! I will do my homework in the following days to cover all the basic principle (Rule of third, equilateral triangle, room measurement, etc). I think my room will be a challenge, it's not a dedicated room like many of us don't have access to and I don't expect perfect results. But I want to maximize the performance of that living space, since it's all I have right now. The challenging parameters will be glass on the left side, open on the right side and relatively short compare to the width of it. Do you have analyze open-space type appartement and determine how we can get the most out of them ?
Hi Guillaume, Go to this link and fill out the information. Lets take a look at your room. www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
+Guillaume Goudreau What I would do in this situation is hang a curtain in front of the glass to absorb the sound and so kill that reflection. I would then, ideally, hang a matching curtain on the opposite to balance this. You could even bring the curtains in to reduce the width. This could well reduce the chances of getting a big open sound but that's better than a glass reflection. Not an ideal solution but simple & practical.
+Acoustic Fields Is this a sensible answer, or am I talking rubbish?
Thank you!
What about glass walls behind the speakers, e.g. in a sun room / conservatory ... ?
Valuable information, thanks 🙏
So nice of you. Thank you for your support.
I have a horrible room, worst then most. I use the McIntosh MEN-220 room correction system. it completely changed my sound in positive ways. Best investment I have ever made. I could not move my room around to accommodate my system, so I decided to use Room Correction and it was amazing how it fixed so many issues. It was most likely less than flying a so called expert to tear up our living space to attempt to correct room issue that can't be corrected without some kind of room correction. If anyone needs feedback I am here to help.
Hi, thanks for all your informational videos. Would a thick area rug to absorb some first reflections be advisable? I see some videos saying it's good as it reduces reverb and others saying it's bad because it removes high frequencies which apparently you need for other treatment i.e. side acoustic panels to function? Thanks!
Carpets are fine for the floor.
Another informative video. Thank you for doing these for us. Question. Does the "speaker must be the same distance from side and rear walls apply to a home theater set up? Also, I am surprised that I didn't hear you mention the "golden triangle" with respect to listening and speaker positioning.
+John Kobzik Yes, Use a strong center image for both two channel and home theater speaker set up. Use a mono male vocal recording to adjust speakers width and toe in. If you are real serious with home theater, get rid of the center channel and split the signal between two more new speakers which match the left and right channels. This way you have left, left center, right center, and right channels all in the same plane and same dispersion array into the audio sound field.
That sounds like good advice. I always wondered why bother with center channel speakers. Movie theaters certainly don't have just one speaker positioned above or below the movie screen. An array of speakers would make more sense.
Thank you for your informative videos. I am placing my speakers on ceramic tiles, I have rubber feet and metal spikes, which one should I use and why?
+showmak Use rubber feet. Placing two hard surfaces together (steel and ceramic), will not restrict vibration transmission from source and floor and may even damage the ceramic tile surface..
+Acoustic Fields thanks again for your advise. I man learning a lot from watching your videos. Keep it up.
I noticed that most audio gear, like midi keyboard and most audio interface have little rubber supports on the bottom
precise & to the point. super. thank you.
You are welcome
Hi Mr Dennis, I would ask you this, what is more apropiarte on a HI FI or called today HI END audio system for home app, apply a DPS Equalizer with a previews análisis with RTA and Software, and then apply the transposed equalization in order to moderate the room+audio-system response, OR, analice the room acoustics problems and design the specific treatments? or in your own opinión what do yo prefer and why? Your answer surely will be interesting to me!
G, That depends. If you start with room first and manage as many issues as you can, before you introduce signal processing, you use less and keep the cumulative power of processing to a minimum. Be careful with processing. Our music today is so processed I always wonder if the talent is really in there somewhere. Always get the room correct first, no matter what your usage.
Thank you Mr Dennis, your answer is so clever and help me to much, I have a Facebook group and forum about this beautiful hobby, and we have a grate debate about this teme, there some people from the Car Audio HQ that they advocates is in favor to use DSP for all including equalize! but my facebook group is for hi fi on homes! Than you! Regards.
I'm having my 8 ft window removed and taking my rear wall out. Gonna be chilly though, its 17° outside.
Hahahaha
Here are some tips. Speakers should be placed about ear level above the floor, around 6 to 8 ft. apart. They should be at least a couple of feet away from walls, otherwise the bass can be "loose" and "boomy." Never stick speakers in corners. If you have a choice of several rooms to choose from, pick the one that has the fewest parallel flat surfaces, ie, a sloping ceiling is better than a flat one. Also, it's for the three pairs of flat surfaces to have different dimensions. For instance, a room that's 12 by 18 feet, with a 7 foot ceiling, is better than one that's 12' X 12' X 7'.
Clyde Wary
Thanks for the comment. Each room size and volume requires different set up distances. Each speaker height and radiation pattern takes different distances apart. A speaker at a 2' distance from a room boundary surface will cause unwanted SBIE artifacts. We always have to be very careful with generalizations.
The 6 - 8 ft spacing is optmum for recreating the proper stereo image, to duplicate the original performance. Of course, if the original recording involved more than two microphones (at ~ 105 degrees) with a mixdown in the studio, this kind of goes out the window. In such a case, there really is no original performance to reproduce. About keeping the speakers away from walls, I can't say EXACTLY how far they should be. But if they're too close, that results in loose and boomy bass.
Clyde Wary So after listening to this, unless I have the perfect room, save my money and buy an MP3 player. Most of us have to live in the real world and sound from one channel reaching my ears 1000th of a second later than the other, well I will just have to suck it up and live with it.
Clyde Wary your tips are way better than his.. 10×16×24 is approximately the perfect room for modal spacing. So really just not setting up in a small room is the best tip ever. 8x8x8= headphones
He's right. There are Klipsch speakers that are designed to be placed in corners because the folded horn uses the corner as a virtual bass horn. So, you do have to be careful about generalizations.
I have the situation described - a 2 metre wide patio door on one side of the speakers and an open area on the other side. I have to fire speakers across the room which is 4 metres wide (length is 7 metres) I have thick curtains over the patio door when listening and considering draping a similar curtain on the open side but this will make the room very small (4 x 4 metres). I am installing three 1200 x 600 x 50 wall panels on the facing wall behind me to absorb the reflected sound. Its all about experimenting but also accepting the limits of a home we have to live with
For some this is the case, for others, it is not. The issue with fabrics and drapes is that you do not know the rate and level of absorption. This data is critical if you are serious about hearing everything in your music and voice.
Great advice, thank you. I have a low ceiling which has two steel girders exposed. Would they interfere with the sound?
It would depend on speaker and listening positioning after the room is properly treated.
so simple. so informative
A, We appreciate your support.
Also, another thing that comes to mind is when we have a listening room, will the amount/type/placement of room treatment change much when we change the speakers in the room? The reason why I ask is that some of the smaller speakers don't produce that much in the 20 to 40+Hz range as will some of the larger speakers. I'm just wondering if we have to be cognizant of that when we perform any room measurements and change from one speaker to another. Should we also be thinking about altering the room treatment to compensate for any such differences?
It is the low frequency response in our rooms that is the most critical. Speakers with larger diameter, low frequency drivers produce more energy and that energy must now fit into your room. Speakers that produce lower frequency energy must be matched with room size and volume or you just have a bunch of "energies" walking all over each other. More low frequency energy produces more low frequency pressures and this excess pressure requires more low frequency absorption. You need to use an absorption technology that deals with sound pressure issues, not boxes filled with building insulation or foam.
Thanks
Dennis
Really great advice, if you are building a house or picking a house plan. For the rest of us in the real world, we have L shaped rooms, with fixed features like fire places and stairwells. These are not going to change, so maybe we need a video on how to cope with less than optimum speaker placement, or perhaps wall treatment to address these issues.
If your room is not frequency response friendly, you must make it so. If walls are missing, then create them with free standing panels. If reverb times are too high, lower them with treatment on the walls. Most rooms can be fixed if the intent to succeed is high enough. We find that most people just complain about their rooms with no clear intention on solving the issues. Its almost like the complaining is the goal.
Hi Dennis, great video, thank you very much for the content.
I have an alcove very similar to on your diagram, which is approximately 800 mm deep by 800 mm wide, which I converted into an av rack, so all my separate components are on shelving in this alcove.
This is immediately to the side of my left channel; I am assuming this is probably wreaking havoc with my sound, would I be better off installing an MDF door to the front of the alcove and applying acoustic treatment on top?
I have vicoustic treatment on my right wall and on the left after the alcove. This is a dedicated room. Thanks in advance.
J, I will need more information . Fill out the information in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis
Acoustic Fields thank you very much for the quick response, I will fill this out, thank you
I would've liked to hear more about surround sound speaker placement, e.g whether or not to mount them on the ceiling facing down, how far away from the walls and behind the listening position, does it matter if the sub can't be centered? most people who have a home theater setup can't have a center subwoofer because the cabinet the TV sits on is in the way so it has to be left or right of the cabinet. And other stuff like the floor material e.g carpet, stone, wood etc.
T, Speaker locations are room size/volume dependent. There is no way for me to generalize.
I have a stunning vintage audio setup in my room. After watching this video I can see that my room and the surrounds are perfectly placed as well as the speakers. However I've been wanting to move my system into a 2x3 meter garden shed, sheet metal. Do you think this is plausible with sound dampening?
Hi Visia, The correct term is damping which is a reduction in amplitude or strength of a frequency. I can not think of a worse environment or shell than a sheet metal shed. On top of that issue, it is too small for multiple sources.
Acoustic Fields Thanks for the quick reply! Though that may be the case. I'll be looking at it more tomorrow, double checking dimensions and seeing if a change in material may be possible. Otherwise I'll stick with my room! Thanks!
QUESTION - i want to flush mount a pair of KLIPSCH CORNWALL 3 speakers into a wall. as you know these tower speakers are ported in the front. i've done a little bit of research on this (its hard to find any information on this though) and what i came up with was a design such that i would build a 4 inch concrete structure inside the wall that would house my cornwall 3 cabinets with about 1 inch clearance on the top and sides and then seal the speaker cabinet against the concrete structure with a rubber foam. this design meant to isolate the speaker from the actual wall. its a baffle type wall that will house the rest of my equipment also. speaker cabinets will be flush with the actual wall. what are your thoughts?
from what i've read, if i understood it correctly, is that the sound will be amazing except the bass will need to be turned down quite a bit as it will be overwhelm the mids and the highs.
my room that i'll be installing this in is not the perfect room shape. its in my home. i'll be compensating a lot with electronics and whatever sound treatments that are practical. the main purpose for this is to build my entire home theater system into a wall for a cleaner look, security, and saving space.
your thoughts?
Man, it is a great lesson - 90% of people in the entire world listen to music on Headphones, silly Bluetooth speakers and they are so happy!
I do not know what the percenatges are for the world. I have a good idea of what our clients want.
This is great!
S, Achieving quality sound in small rooms is all about doing a lot of little things correctly and in the proper order.
Very nice. I did not knew about glass.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Dennis, greetings from India. wealth of information in your channel. Thank you for your time and effort. Learning a lot from your channel. :-) Quick question- i do not have the liberty to place my front speakers equal distance from the sidewalls,my right speaker is about 4 ft from the sidewall but I have only 2 ft for the left speaker to play around. Any suggestions for this setup. Thanks.
Hi M, You will just have to move things around. Without equal distance, its very problematic.
Acoustic Fields Well, problem is I have a door on the right side which remains open. So there is no rear wall. I just have to make a compromise I guess, just that I don't want to compromise too much.
I'm trying to build a space well lit by natural light for playback and mixing my music as well as just practicing with instruments. In another video I remember you mentioning to make sure all windows are placed above and outside the listening position. I understand nothing about this can be precisely measured without hearing the room but from your experience and assuming the dimensions of the room are ideal what penalties could be expected from having windows on the wall behind the speakers and on the side walls above the listening position?
Also, ideally how tall should the ceilings be in a listening room?
Place the windows along the wall / ceiling boundary out of the main soundfields.
This is a great video. If I have a room with a window, what could i cover the window with for best results? I'm a complete noob
P, It depends on the position of the window. If it located on side walls then you must match the same rate and level of absorption treatment for each side wall.
The room you describe looks exactly like mine. 14' wide x 18' deep with an alcove in the front left corner. The alcove is there to allow access to the attic via fold down stairs. Do you have suggestions on how to treat this alcove to try and improve the sound of the room?
Sure McAdid, shoot me an email at info@acousticfields.com and I'll be happy to help.
Thanks
Dennis
Very helpful basics - this video led me to easily choose in my listening room in a new house (small multipurpose space with soft quilt curtains, no bass traps or resonating spaces-very small room), thank you very much.
Nice vid, I have a problem my setup is just a stereo with bass rear port, (monitor audio rx1) in the left side the speakers have a 30 cm from the lateral and 40-45 cm from rear wall and the right side have more than 2 meters from rear and lateral... is just very difficult moove the system because my mother kills me lol
Than you. Very good advice l.
M, Thank you for your support.
I have an alcove in my movie room as well. I just use the space that I was given. It sounds pretty decent to me.
If you are happy then mission accomplished.
Thank you 😊
You're welcome 😊
Dear Dennis,
Can you recommend any good fabric material that is good for covering a window that is a primary reflection point in the monitoring room?
Best regards,
H, There is no good fabric to cover a window. You have to have a technology that has predictable rates and levels of absorption.
Good one!
Thanks for listening
Good basic advice for speaker placement...BUT, I'd add sound treatment on all walls and ceiling and floor. This is after doing some custom reno work to the walls. Sound suppressing maybe. As the walls might be "paper thin". Basically build a HT sound treated room. If it works for a custom HT room install...
A, Sound suppression is not something we use in acoustics. Home theater rooms that have a wood frame construction need to be 2" x 12 " studs. This approach allows you to use a barrier (in most cases) and sound absorption technologies within that stud space depth. A 2" x 12" stud wall will not move. You need rigidity when dealing with multiple low-frequency sources.
Thank you so much
H, Thank you for your support and following.
I kinda want to open a store called "Dos & Donuts."
M, People miss the importance of a proper set up. Even if the room has no treatment, you must set up correctly.
Hi! Is it ok to put speakers closer to the front wall, if I use diffusion for front wall?
Some of us depending on built or bought later the dimensions are not always ideal. You do the best you can and get room correction software to do the best you can.
Always do the best you can and this also holds true for developing a stratedgy to match your chosen usage. We see people constantly using tactics without a strategy. You cant know where you will end up without a plan to get there.
assuming the right side where the glass is, is also your first reflection point, if you place a 20cm thick rockwool basstrap infront of it, but leave the top bit open (because you dont want to make a 3 meter high absorber obviously) would that help the situation?
Hi Jan Hajšen
Glass surfaces must be completely covered. Any part of the glass seen, will be heard. Rockwool destroys the middle range frequencies by over absorbing. It is the biggest myth in acoustics, second only to drywall. Use fabric in layers to cover the glass. Fabric should be 1/2" thick and have numerous layers.
Thanks
Dennis
Hi, on 5.1 I ve put my surround speaker 1.5/2 feet above ear level, is it right? Sometime is fine, same case not. Dolby specifies this but most people say the opposite leaving surround on ear level, but they are distracting..
I like this video because he talks about speaker distance from side walls. Not many others talk about that.
The time signature of the primary, secondary, and tertiary reflections from sidewalls is critical for image focus, resolution, and balance.
@@AcousticFields Thank you Dennis. The reason why I mentioned it is because I'm unhappy with the sound of my setup. My left speaker is 1 metre from the left wall and my right speaker is 5 metres from the right wall.
I could change the whole living room around and place the speakers along the shorter wall and this would give me more symmetry.
@@ikemi1 These are two channel requirements for proper set up. Not my rules. Its our laws of physics.
My room is basically what is in this video - minus the alcove. I have a 2.1 setup. I'm getting a lot of complaints about not being able to hear or understand vocals - any advice on what to try first? No acoustic treatments yet. Mix of brick and drywall over brick which is balanced. Two small glass windows - basement. Two doors - symmetrical along long axis. Speaker on short wall as in video.
Hi Honkeyness, Lets take a more detailed look at your room. Fill out the information in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
I need a room.
Your take on L shaped rooms please . Great vids btw , learnt a lot , thanks !
When you are dealing with a two channel set up, the front wall and sidewalls must all be equal distance from each other.
Ah yes, the old one eared robot head principle.
Dr. Zoidberg I laughed, comment underrated!
great comment. literal lol
thanks for sharing your good points. you're making a lot of sense , but where can you have a perfect room when a house is not acoustically designed for audio equipment ?. besides. where's the fun in enjoying music when you have to SIT STILL/FREEZE in a chair and not allowed to even turn your head to the left or right cause the sound will be distorted ?..
You can design for whatever sound stage and field of listening you desire. You first develop a sonic strategy for your room. What do you want to hear? Do you want a wide soundstage? Do you prefer a more focused presentation? You decide what you want to listen to and then design the room using the proper tactics to create your designed for sound quality. It strategy first, then using the tactics
( absorption/diffusion room size / volume etc.) to create the presentation value you desire. It takes planning and patience.
great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Hi there nice vid ! Are you available to consult on new studio / jam / rehearsal space with recording etc. ?
Fill out the info. in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
This video hit my small problem. Your drawing shows the “ alcove” ( pocket on the left of the loudspeaker.)
My room has a 4’ wide a opening by 1 foot deep alcove at the middle of the left speaker position to the front adjoining to back wall. I seem to get a touch of image shift to the left... depending on program sources.
The right side is STRAIGHT- drywall to the front wall. How could that ‘alcove’ be fixed? 2 bass traps on both sides equally to the front wall? A small room divider ( what material??) on the left alcove strait to he front wall???
Thanks
Howard
H, Yes, it is important that both left and right walls be as similar as possible.
My room is 186 X 140 and I have to set up my speakers on the "140 side" because of doors. Also if I place them the same distance from the wall I'll hit a speaker w/ the door. I have acoustic treatment on the walls to help, is there anything else I can do to make sure I'm not missing out on a better sound. If I spaced them = distance from the wall they would be almost 8 ft apart.
Hi Ryan,
Fill out the information in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/. I will run the correct source locations for you.
Thanks, I've actually done that before.
I sent you a couple of photos, but I've added some room treatment since then. Today I bought 4 Sonex 24x48 panels to go w/ the 2 ATS 24x48 panels that I already have including the two bass traps.
This is the difference between me and the audiophile business. I take pride in ALL sound reproduction, and that includes recording. My good quality audio isn't only reserved for my listening room. I record as high quality as I can, and even my PC speakers are set up correctly. So yeah, the difference between me (the guy with a passion for audio), and the audiophile business.
M, High-resolution recordings are a good start and should be considered throughout the playback and recording process.
My room is identical to the one you have shown here, left side being bigger than the right and unfortunately I can't change the position or re construct the wall. Can I add some home made Panels of rock wool to both the sides with equal distance? and have more panels behind the these panels on the left and right side for left over frequencies to be absorbed?
Hi Teenu Arora
Thanks for the comment. I answered your question in this week's Google Hangout. You can see the part where I answered your question on this snippet of the video:
th-cam.com/video/abWX9s-AzkE/w-d-xo.html
If you fill in this form on my site I can take a closer look at your situation. If you can include photos then that would be great:
www.acousticfields.com/free-acoustic-treatment-room-analysis-tell-us-about-your-room/
I hope it helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Thanks
Dennis
So basically build a rectangular bunker with no windows to listen to music :)
N, A rectangular room is predictable and consistent with its distribution of modal pressure areas. The parallel surfaces dictate this. Treatment type, amount, and position are then applied. They are easier to treat and manage issues within than other shapes. All room shapes require low, middle, and high-frequency management. Glass surfaces produce frequency response aberrations. This is referred to as "glass sound". They produce frequency irregularities from 800 - 2 K. A bunker, I am going to assume, would be a concrete structure underground where the earth and concrete act as a barrier against noise transmission. This would be very desirable in any critical listening environment.
So basically, go for the spherical bunker instead.
Lmao
Germans built great bunkers!!! That may explains why many good speakers (Canton etc.) Come from Germany xD
Hi there, do you mean no glass for the front and back walls as well as the sides? Many Thx
Hi Violet, Glass produces harsh reflections that must be managed correctly. It is best to not have any glass. The angle of any glass surface that must stay should be calculated to not produce those reflections at the listening or monitoring position.
I understand the "no glass" rule but just wondering if there might be a way around it these days? Is the angle of a glass window more or less a factor? Would love to have an exterior soundproof window, but won't do it if I need to sacrifice acoustics. Any tips?
G, Place windows on the rear wall or at the ceiling wall intersection out of the horizontal sound field.
At 2:08 you mentioned no cavities. If their is a closet with a closet door would that door cancel out the cavity of the closet or will it just go right through the door?
J, Cavities resonate and produce sound. Closing the door will provide a barrier against upper frequencies, but will have no impact on lower frequencies. To minimize the resonances, fill the closet with winter clothes and keep the door closed.
I heard that it's bad to have a room with almost symmetrical dimensions, like a cube. Is that right? I have two "full range" tower speakers with 10" subwoofers in them. I have them positioned with identical lenght from the walls and they have the same distance from eachother and my listening location has the same lenght to them aswell. I've made two identical thin insulation foam (some fibre type material) "acoustic treatment" panels and have them next to my speakers on the wall. The bad thing here is that i have a very large window on the right side (a little bit further away from the speaker so it's not right next to it atleast) I do have big curtains for the window, but would it help to have some thicker stuff on there like molton? I'm also thinking of putting one of those acoustic panels on the back wall. These speakers do have a surprisingly flat eq but do have a slight bump down in the 4-5khz range. This setup might not be the best for a critical monitoring, but I do like to have it as close as I can, even though my setup is not ideal for that.
Hi sonofkikkoman
Thanks for the comment. I can not respond to your room issues without knowing more about your room. Please fill out the information in this link. Once I have your room size, volume, and usage, I can better tell what your unwanted pressure areas are, where they are located within your room, and how strong (amplitude) they are. From that point, we can figure out how to manage both pressure and reflection issues in a systematic approach without generalizing or guessing. I am certain your music is too important to you to be guessing about how to make it better.
www.acousticfields.com/free-acoustic-treatment-room-analysis-tell-us-about-your-room/
Thanks
Dennis
What Shall I buy Sound Bar or a Blue Ray Home Theater System ? Which is better ?
Hi B, A sound bar is a line array speaker system positioned above or below the screen. Certain speakers within the bar or array are angled to enhance wall surface reflections. All channels are represented in the sound bar. They work best in small rooms. A home theater system will have separate speakers for each channel and allow for positioning of those speakers within the room. You can then maximize treatment (absorption/diffusion) to further improve the sound quality. With individual sources for each channel and the proper type,amount, and positioning of treatment, you can make the room actually sound larger. A must have goal of any home theater.
Hi Dennis, I just spend quite some money on sound equipment, Im living in a rented house that is far away from having the perfect room for it (its the living room), my tower speakers are, one about 5 inches sideways from the wall and the other is 5 inches back away from the wall, I can not do much until I get my own home but, for the moment, is there anyway to compensate this situation?, even though I know its not going to be the perfect acustic treatment.
+Raul Arias Vazquez Fill out the information within this link and I can better assist you. www.acousticfields.com/free-acoustic-treatment-room-analysis-tell-us-room/
What about that alcov, what solution do we have here? Can a thick curtain partially solve this problem or it's useless, you really need a wall?
G, Alcoves are resonating chambers of energy and produce their own sound. The density and treatment types on all walls impact sound quality.
Can anyone suggest how I can cover up the window in my room? My room is rectangular with a rhomboid roof and uniform throughout, and a single window, would it be good for recording music? I'm thinking about putting acoustic panels on the two long walls. What material should I use for the floors, I was thinking about getting some nice wooden floors instead of the carpet, what kind of wood would be nice for a slightly darker tone that isn't too bright?
Y, You must develop a sound strategy and not use tactics to deal with your room acoustics. Putting a panel here or there without a total strategy to match your usage is a waste of time and energy. Fill out the information in this link and let's take a complete look at your room. www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/
Real World Studios (Peter Gabriel’s studio) has a ton of glass in the control room. How did they treat it?
S, They work around the issues produced by the glass.
You demonstrate a 2 channel system being equidistant to each other and the walls, but what about the rest of the channels in a home theater; especially, the center channel?
D, Multiple channels produce many issues. Most of those issues relate to the distances involved, the distribution pattern by the speakers, and a host of other variables.
I have a vast high ceiling and house where i have sonos soundbar two play ones in surround and two play 3 s on landing it sounds pretty good. I know it could be better but I can’t do what u are suggesting it would be impossible
We give you a standard for sound quality that we have used for over 40 years. You must decide what parts of that standard you wish to use and which you can not.
Glad I saw this. Instead of renting in a old house basement unit I decided build my own custom home. I'll have just enough money left over to buy my brothers 23 year old Bose system. And I DO mean 23 years old.