Vaggie is Carmilla's Daughter & Was an Angel? The CRAZIEST Hazbin Hotel Theory!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2024
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You’re name is deepthroat
Oi! Play the games!
I have another theory Carmilla is a zestial wife 😅
One little problem... Carmilla has been in hell for a long time enough to have a close friendship with one of the oldest overlords while Vaggie died in 2014 which is way too recent considering that once again Carmilla is an very old who probably died decades ago which doesn't make sense since she was in her 20's when she died meaning that she would have been born somewhere during the 1990's which is way to recent if you remember Velvet who died around that same time and by then Carmilla had been in hell for years....
Like you said
@@user-fz1ng2to8bI have a theory that their is also a population problem in Heaven as well. And the reason for the extermination is a fun activity for the angels for one day take out their frustrations on someone else for the problems in their own space.
I WAS SO SURE that Vaggie is Carmillas daughter since tgey both share the dame color pallete, and even shared a musical number together, but i changed my mind after watching the ep again. One of Carmillas daughter came into hazbin hotel to bring weapon to sir pentious, but vaggie didnt even care. So i changed my nind
Maybe she doesn't know who they are, because she later then, or some other reason
Considering how protective Carmilla is, maybe the info that they are his daughters is a secret and they look different enough now as demons that Vaggie can't recognize them. Or if Vaggie died before or after them she has a harder time remember them, especially if she died before.
Maybe Vaggie was adopted, also she had speak some spanish words wonder if there is conection or not?
or maybe they had some form of drastic appearance change from earth to hell
But carmillas daughter have the same eye colour and they also share the same horns
If carmilla is a fallen angel, that would make sense as to why she or one of her daughters murdered the angel. It also makes sense as to why Vaggie has this sort of war like theme going on
I had a theory that vaggie was generals ( or atleast a solider's ) daughter but I like this theory 😊
Either that or the angel's divine protection only works on attacks based on sin. Carmilla attacked the angel to protect her daughters.
Vaggie died much later than Carmella tho
@@Froostedablobby not trying to be too confrontational but are we sure that hasn't been retconned?
@@scootinkermie pretty sure none of the main character’s ages were changed. Like it wouldn’t really make sense for Vaggie to die earlier just because the show is official. Even VOX didn’t have his age changed
After the newest episodes exposing Vaggie being an ex-exterimnator, i wouldn't be surprised if carmilla shares the same background
thats why she was able to kill an exterminator
@@Finkaboonaw, exterminators are the exact same as sinners. Angel weapons can easily kill both, but it would show how she was able to create angelic weapons of such high quality compared to sinners.
Honestly I doubt Vaggie is the first angel that's been left behind.
I think the most telling evidence for vaggi being a former Exorcist is how she refers to other demons. She rebuked Alastor by saying, “I know better than to make deals with demons like you” and even more, when she was talking to Charlie she called the people of hell “your people”. She keeps talking like she isn’t a demon.
“Demons like you” was referring to the power Alastor has and his tendencies for trapped deals. “Your people” refers to the fact that the sinners of hell are *her subjects* as she is the princess.
@@Nyxnius or was it? *bwhoooom*
@@NyxniusWhat about her line is Charlie’s song, “Those angels hearts are hard to change”?
It implies that she’s familiar with the way the angels think
Im gonna go with the theory that vaggie is a former exorcist based on her design and her duet with camilla. Aside from her now updated attire being change the other thing that seems to be different from the pilot is actually the hair. The way that it folds at the end almost like wings and the patterns on the ends it seems very much so like the patterns on lute and adam's wings. Not to mention in the same episode as the duet she learned trust on a battlefield or on the streets of pride and her mannerism is very similar with Lute. later in the episode she is looking up on the cockpit seemingly looking up at heaven this shot seems rather important due to her connection with heaven whether it is due to fulfilling charlie's dream or something else. What's also interesting is that in Vaggies line during the song whatever it takes she quotes "you made me feel like a stranger in a brand new place" meaning that its possible she felt she knew hell and their residents but when she met charlie all that changed. On the side note this is possibly irrelevant but her weapon of choice is a spear although the designs are different it does have indication that it could be angelic whether she got it from Carmilla or not.
to be fair your second point is probably debunked as she was simply referring to them as her people in literal terms as royalty, i’ve seen the same in medieval games/books, but it’s still v cool and i’d love to be proven wrong :3
What if Vaggie was a baby when Carmilla and her daughters died? So she never really knew them on a personal level and only on the devistation their choices left behind? And because she has no interest in knowing them in hell, believing in the legacy and not who they really are. And therefore never reached out to them herself. Carmilla would have no reason to believe her baby she left behind would be in hell at any point nor would they know what kind of person shed become or look like. Which is why the daughers/sisters didnt react to Vaggie.
If there is one thing film school taught me, its that you dont have two characters singing together like that if they dont have some kind of relationship or connection. To me it was early proof that they arent so misaligned as Vaggie might believe.
This is a great idea. I also think Vaggie doesn’t know about her relationship to them if there is one. Maybe since she was just a baby, whoever killed Carmilla and her daughters might have taken her in and raised her as their own, which is why she ended up having a background in war.
If Vaggie and Carmilla are related, maybe Vaggie doesn’t know that Carmilla is her mom and she got separated from her when she was young, but still died at an older age than the other two daughters.🤔 It’d be an interesting twist and a shock for Vaggie I’m sure.😅
I’m also all for Vaggie being a former Exorcist.😊
Some religions believe you dont keep your memories of your human life when you die and go to heaven. If Vaggie went to heaven while her mother (i believe her sisters are hellborn) went to hell, it would explain why she wouldnt recognize Carmilla
It would also explain why she didn't react to Carmilla's daughters bringing Sir Pentious his weapons. If she was separated from them, she might not recognize her sisters.
Carmilia accent is Spain
Vaggie is from El Salvador
To say it in terms you can understand.
It's like compare someone from Australian and someone from Alaska and justify they are related just because both speak English...
And yes Spanish is my first lenguage so obviously I'm capable of differentiating the accents
@@marianomiguel2982 by difference, you mean differentiating
@@abystanderstandingby6769 you are right
As someone who is in the military, that fired weapons often. Has anyone thought that the ex correlates to someone being right or left-handed. When I would aim my weapon because I’m right handed my cheek rested on the stock, and I had to use my left eye to aim properly. Someone that is left-handed would be using the right eye to aim properly.
oooh yes that makes sense!!!
Brilliant thinking, that's how I'm gonna imagine it now!
On that note, what if vaggie had a weapon malfunction with a rifle that caused it to explode or something and take out her left eye so now she is sort of scarred from using guns and only uses blades and sorts.. it could also tie into why carmilla may have had sent her away at a young age, she feared for that daughters safety jn particular because now she was heavily handicapped in theit work
they use spears though
@@kittykattskybut in episode 6 one of the exorcists takes Vaggie’s eye out
It is pretty likely that Vaggie could be Carmilla's daughter that she may have disowned or abandoned because she got into heaven but I think Carmilla wouldn't abandon one of her daughters willingly unless she went against her and forced her to do it, but if Vaggie is related to Carmilla then she would be her eldest daughter seeing how similar they both are in the show and their lore but I could be wrong. Great theory video by the way!
If she is her daughter and was an angel the most likely scenario is that Vaggie was an Exorcist and either recognized or was recognized by her mother and was tricked into giving over her weapon thus starting Camilla's foray into the angelic arms business as well as facilitating Vaggies's fall from Heaven.
The thing is don’t know if vaggie was ever an angel all we know is she died in like 2014 and is in hell now and is dating Charlie
@@GrimReaper_TTVWe now know that Vaggie was an exterminator :)
I heard someone suggest that Carmilla is Vaggie's mom, and I quite like this theory.
First, they both look very similar. They have similar color schemes, and both of them speak Spanish.
Second, it would make sense for a mother/daughter pair to have a duet, as opposed to just two random people who are entirely unrelated.
Third, Vaggie learned to trust on a battlefield, and Carmilla is a weapons dealer in Hell, and she has two other daughters in Hell with her. It wouldn't be surprising if there was a third daughter, Carmilla dealed in weapons before her death, and Vaggie grew up on a battlefield because that was her mother's employment.
Great points! Your comment also made me think about how Charlie and Vaggie could have met. We don't know much about Vaggie's background but we could assume she'd be at least daughter of an overlord to be in the same circles as Charlie.
Unfortunately their eyes are completely different
@@adamH.1 this might represent them being estranged in some way idk
I think Vaggie is a sinner.
But I do have to agree, putting them in the same duet together and them being unrelated wouldn’t make sense.
But when the 2 daughters went to the hotel to deliver the weapon to Sir Pentious, Vaggie and them do not regconise at all.
Fun fact Carmila’s daughters are named Odette and Clara after the main characters from Swan Lake and The Nutcracker based on how Carmilla and her daughters stand on their tip toes like ballerinas.
Another thought might be: what if Vaggie and Carmilla are sisters instead of mother and daughter? Vaggie being the youngest while Carmilla is the oldest. One theory pops to mind is that while alive, they were part of the same family and possibly playing different roles. Vaggie was an enforcer or being more involved with the fighting while Carmilla focused on creating and selling weapons. In life, they could've drifted apart and Vaggie died before Carmilla's children were born. This could explain why the children don't know her or Carmilla hasn't gotten in contact since. Hurt feelings tend to fester and this can keep family members from talking or acknowledging each other.
That might be a bit more likely
I’m pretty sure that Vaggie is confirmed to have died in 2014, and even if they had a 20 year age gap, there is no way that Carmilla is a newer overlord. Honestly the timeline doesn’t fit for either mother-daughter, or sisters. While we don’t know where Carmilla originated from, her music has Spanish influences whereas Vaggie I believe was from El Salvador.
@@Potatoesop maybe a descendant? Like a granddaughter or a great granddaughter
@@IamW4RL0RD while that is a possibility, that is assuming that Carmilla had more children than the daughters that we see or that at least one of her daughters had at least one child before they died. I can admit that it is hard to distinguish ages from character design, but her daughters seem on the younger side (imo they look younger than Vaggie, but that’s just my opinion)
Carmilla is quite an interesting character. She acted out of love for her daughters and now fears starting a war that could cost her the lives she cared for. If there's one person who might be able to be "rehabilitated" back into heaven, then she is definitely a candidate.
Not sure if Vaggie is Camillas daughter but one thing im almost certain of is her relationship to the Angels somehow. The X over her eye has to be significant and she doesnt seem to have any type of weird or devilish forms the way the other characters do. She appears more human than anyone else on the show. She is also by far the most reasonable and loving character outside of Charlie. You can say she just loves Charlie very much and just supresses it- but she seems to be even more level headed than Charlie is at times. I dont know but its interesting stuff
I’m not certain that the x indicates relationship with angels, both Alastor and Cherri have at least one X in thier design.
@@Potatoesopshe’s literally a fallen angel who got her eye stabbed out for not killing a demon lmao
@@catc2938 thank you for making fun of a reply that was made BEFORE episodes 5 and 6 came out, I hope you had a good laugh sweetie
I believe Carmilla is Vaggie's mother because if you put everything she said together, it makes sense. She has had Military like training because her mother sold weapons. Maybe Lucifer okayed Vaggie dating Charlie because he knows she is Carmilla's daughter and knows Charlie is in good hands. Also, maybe that's how Vaggie got the Angelic weapon. I also believe Lilith's and Alastor's seven year disappearance is connected. What if Alastor was tasked by Lilith to protect Charlie because she knew through an angelic double agent (aka Eve) that Heaven was going to kill every demon?
On the topic of Eve, I want to see her put Adam to his place. It could be an epic back and forth duet or during the new extimination😅. Anyway good ideas.
@@likecat7886I kinda like my idea of adam actually being a good guy who's forced to put up this front of a hating all of hell whilst eve is more evil and dangerous whilst I do think this will be later proven wrong it be so funny if it turns out Adam actually loves his children he just doesn't like Lilith or Lucifer, Charlie on the other hand he is neutral too cause she seems nice but shes also his greatest enemies daughter so ehhh, anyways it be a fun little power switcher, eve is the more dominant one whilst Adam is more submissive, she grew hateful he grew to actually love, and I have thought up a crazy reason why heaven even has souls if it's way of getting there is so draconic like it seems, is cause Adam is smuggling souls under the extermination day into heaven, and he sends them directly to God, Jesus and the holy Spirit to be judged to see if they can be redeemed and so they get sent to areas secret to only those four and so people just accept these newbies into heaven but now a days the extermantiors are getting suspicious of Adam and his doings so now he's under more stress and is scared of being found out cause he knows he'll be tortured by eve or lute or someone
If anything, I though Vaggie was related to Valentino. Not only do they both have some Latin heritage, they are both modeled after moths and their first letter of their names have V in them. And we know from comics that Angel’s family looks like him in Hell. But I don’t really know I guess we’ll have to see.
Or somehow related to both Carmilla and Valentino?
The bit about Sinners looking younger then they did when they died may actually be canon if you remember Loopty and Lyle from Helluva Boss, both looking younger then they did when they died
I personally think that yes they are a family, and on earth when all of them were alive that she couldn’t save her daughters then, so she tries to save them all now. As for vaggie being an Angel I love that idea
I've actually seen people theorize that Carmilla is a fallen angel, making her daughters either hell-born like charlie or also fallen angels. This would fit in with Vaggie, and also possibly could explain her protectiveness of her daughters, as one would already be lost to her.
It's possible that they are related a different way. Vaggie could be a niece who died after Carmilla and both daughters. Being that she was an arms dealer, it would make sense that a part of the extended family just didn't wish to Associate with her. Depending on how they all died, The family could have erased them all together. Both parties just wouldn't know they were related therefore wouldn't have reactions to each other.
Vaggie being related to Carmilla is believable. I think Lucifer would have hired Vaggie as a bodyguard for Charlie through Carmilla, but ended up in a more personal relationship in the process after falling for Charlie's bubbly personality. This can be inferred through her alluding to the need to protect Charlie. To be her armor.
Carmilla: an arms dealer, gets big arms
I was honestly waiting for this video since I saw that episode because I notice those small details and as a writer, writers don't usually give duets like that to characters that have nothing to do with each other, and if they do, it is incredibly rare. And when I was talking to my friend about this I pointed out how their appearances were very similar she pointed out how their accents are very similar and I had thought that maybe just maybe carmilla was Vaggies mother from when they were both on Earth.
Because the two daughters that Carmela has now seem to be late teens early twenties, so presumably their hellborn
I take back my previous paragraph but I'm going to leave it in. Cuz I'm not a coward and I want people to see my raw thoughts before finishing the video anyways an idea that popped into my head is if Carmela was around during alistair's time so like the 50s and she died around that time it could make sense if Vaggie was her youngest. She could have been only a few years old and then died in her thirties making her die sometime in the late eighties
Last edit: sorry for the misspelling of names I had a lot to get out and I didn't want to type it so I was using voice to text
Alastor was around in the 1920s-1930s, not the 50s.
Vaggie died in 2014
@@hannahmetzger4880 doesn't mean that he couldn't have died in the 50s
@@josehenriquesenadefaria6062 did we not just watch the same video? I could have sworn that in the video he said it's not confirmed but it is speculated that she died either in the 80s or in the 2010s
@@str1derr0s3 its confirmed by vivziepop that vaggie death time is closely to 2014, but in the original idea of hazbin, when all of this was a zoophobia spin off, vaggie died in 1980, but this is actualy uncannon
Considering Vaggie's military style training regime she uses during Episode 3, it's very likely Vaggie if she was possibly a part of one of the Paramilitary groups pretty common in both South America and Mexico, granted they are known more for using guns and explosives than knives but still.
Watching this theory that Vaggie is Angel after the 6 episode hits different
Omg I just saw the new episodes and omg how close this dude was even using VAGGIES ANGLE FORM OMFG
Angle💀
What if Carmilla’s daughters didn’t recognize Vaggie and Vaggie didn’t recognize them is because they’re long lost siblings that only their mom Carmilla knows about
Good theory and it does make sense a bit
Well this aged splendidly
I suspect Carmella is an angel like vaggie. She was a weapon smith (for the cartel?) and used it to protect her kids, but heaven killed her in order to use her to start the extermination. Carmella design their weapons, but while gone her kids died because she wasn’t there to protect them. Once she finished and the exterminations began she learned her children died and ended up in hell. This brought her to hell and explains her knowledge of angelic weapons, color scheme, connection to vaggie in their duet, and how she knew angels could be killed/resisted war.
This aged really well xD now let's see if the other part comes true
I do buy into the theory that Vaggie either used to be an Exorcist or is related to them in some way. The X over her eye and her choice in weapon aren't the only aspects connecting them: Her redesign for the actual show also made her hair very wing-like, with a distinct feathery stripe pattern on it. We see this kind of pattern on the wings of some exorcists as well, most notably the one accompanying Adam during the first episode. Those are too many design similarities to be a coincidence.
I'm not sure how exactly she's related to them though. She _could_ be a fallen angel, that's one possibility. But there's other options, like being a "failed" soul that used to be on her path to becoming an Exorcist after death, but took a misstep at the last minute and was branded a sinner instead. Or maybe she's on her way to becoming more angelic - the first soul Charlie actually redeems - and due to her nature/character, her angelic form would/will be an Exorcist.
But for me the timeline doesn't add up at all for her to be the slain angel. At all.
Charlie and Vaggie have quite the developed relationship, which would imply they've known each other for considerably longer than the few weeks it has been since the extermination in which that Exorcist died. So far all events from the pilot seem to be canon as well, and that one is set _immediately_ after the purge even. And Vaggie seems to have been around for at least a bit (and in that form as well), since Angel seems to have known her for at least a little bit and isn't surprised about anything about her at all.
It's possible that Carmella is vaggie's grandmother that would give the direct family tie while also fixing the time frame
I mean, I thought that while watching the episode that them singing together (while never sharing any screen time) was a clear hint to their relation. It would make sense that Carmilla was able to "kill" an angel if Vaggie let her do it. She also has a necklace (cloth?) around her neck in the exact same position as where the angel was decapitated. Additionally, the executioner angels have an X over an eye. Well, so does Vaggie. Furthermore, Vaggie was shown to have an understanding of combat and is the protector of the hotel. Why? Well she was trained to fight. Finally, why is she the one who believes in Charlie's idea? Of course, they're in a relationship, but something could make her special.
Idk, but I think the signs are all too clear that Vaggie, Carmilla, and the Angels are all connected together. Maybe not in the way the theory is here but in some way. So far there have just been wayyyyy too many foreshadowing hints across the series to ignore.
I mean all characters, who so far had a duet together, had some kind of connection or conflict. Nothing connects Vaggie and Camilla, besides their similar issues to protect their beloved ones. So maybe their are related. But seriously, something is up with Vaggie. Her past is so mysteries. I mean her being an Angel is still a possibility, so I am exited to see what her deal is. The only thing we know she grow up in a really strict household...
You were mostly right, sir 👏 👏 👏
Vaggie being the dead Angel makes no sense since Vaggie and Charlie been together for some time already and the Angel died during this extermination
Well you got one part right
Here's a theory on Charlie's power. Did everyone always burst into song at random moments or did it happen after Charlie was born?
I WAS LITERALLY THINKING THIS THE FIRST TIME I WATCHED IT. my guess is that vaggie is carmilla's daughter, but it's a "long lost" situation where Vaggie doesn't know she's Carmilla's daughter therefore didn't recognize her other daughters when they delivered the weaopons. it makes so much sense to put them together for a duet. They're color palettes/schemes, voices, and personalities are so similar too
Their* not they're. They + Are = they're
I don't know about the angel theory, but what if Vaggie used to be close with her family but blamed Carmilla for their deaths when they got to hell while the other 2 daughters forgave their mother, also rewatch the scene when the daughters deliver at the hotel, the one in white has her eyes glued to her board but as soon as she look away from it she gets angry and leaves quickly almost like she doesn't want to be in the same room with a certain person for too long
Literally knew it. Just came true in episode 6
It could be that Vaggie was born late in Carmilla's life, and both of her sisters were already in their late teens, early twenties. If so, then it's possible Carmilla and her daughters died shortly after Vaggie was born, leaving her orphaned and unaware of her family. If that's the case, Vaggie wouldn't recognize Carmilla as her mother or Carmilla's daughters as her sisters, and Carmilla opts to keep the secret because, far as she can tell, Vaggie is doing pretty well for herself.
I believe this theory, except for the dead angel being Vaggie, and I think the reason she didn’t react to the other girls is simply because she didn’t know they were her sisters.
Haven’t seen this yet BUT I was wondering why Vaggies colors fit Carmela’s (I can’t spell her name sorry!) but also why Vaggie had a song with Carmela? Well a “duet”
Her name is Carmilla, i hope it helped :)
I would definitely like to see Vaggie's family, and the fact that she has a duet with Carmilla is curious, although it could be limited to the fact that they are two desperate people who are willing to do anything to protect the people they love.
I believe that Vaggie was merely just singing about Charlie and her wanting to protect her and having faith in her dreams of allying with Heaven.
This video aged well in 2 days😂
I was thinking the exact same thing. I can see a couple of reasons on why they'd have a duet maybe because they're similar in nature. But I kind of made some connections after vaggie said she had to learn trust on the battle field. Camilla may have brought her there preparing her children to defend themselves or at least survive extermination Also the fact that vaggie has an angelic weapon and Camilla is an arms dealer. Infact in the pilot you can actually see Camilla's daughters picking up one off a corpse. Nowt only that but they seem to have strikingly similar appearances and personalities. Even there need to protect the ones they love draw a striking resemblance.
It’s been confirmed vaggie is an angel
As shown in episode 4 with Angel's contract, their names on Earth are or at least can be different. I think that might be part of why Vaggie wouldn't recognize Carmilla
Vaggie confirmed an angel in the recent episodes and seeing the strange duet during their song where they seem to connect for no real reason other than for the sake of the song.. It seems their might be some truth to this theory.
The angels say the killed angel happens in the last extermination. It has been only a week so half of this idea does not work.
The only problem is that Camila is very old and from Spain, while Vaggie doesn’t have that much years death and she is from El Salvador. Maybe Vaggie is her gran daughter or her great granddaughter
least unhinged fan theory
I find it interesting that Vaggie does seem to hold herself apart from the other sinners, calling them Charlie's people. I'm more on the side that she was an exorcist who came to see the purges as wrong and is constantly encouraging Charlie to put together convincing proposals to the angels or to use more of her power as Hell's Princess, as one way to stop them from the inside. Can't wait to see more, though.
I'd like to throw out the possibility that Vaggie was a baby when something happened to Carmilla and her sisters. This would mean that she was seperated from them for years thus completly reasonable she wouldnt recognize them. After Carmilla's death Vaggie was left to be taken in by the cartel and used as a child soldier, recieving redemption in that she was defending herself from her unfortunate upbringing and not seeking to harm others. This would aslo explain why she was more independatnt that her sisters, she didnt have the luxury or parental figures.
one really interesting thing picked up on in episode 3 vaggie refers to hell as your people to charlie implying she isnt from hell, and as charlie is princess of hell logically heaven have some connections there what with adam having meetings with its rulers, vaggie mentions she is there to protect charlie and so is a bodyguard, possibly an exorcist assigned to her for official purposes
Ok so the newest episodes came out today… AND HOW IS THIS LITERALLY ACCURATE!!! VAGGIE IS ACTUALLY AN ANGEL AND WAS AN EXTERMINATOR!!!
The only reason I don’t 100% believe that and Carmella are related is because when Sir Pentious received his canon in the beginning of the episode Vaggie had zero reaction to what would be her sisters
I think Vaggie is a descendant of Carmilla, not actually her daughter but great-great (don't know how many) granddaughter. Sinners are immortal and arms dealing has been around since the 16th century. Carmilla is also close friends with Zestial (an ancient overlord), so she and her daughters could be decades or centuries old, while Vaggie died more recently and probably doesn't know the connection (or at least Carmilla and her daughters don't and Vaggie is hiding it).
given how close Carmine seemed to Zestiel I thought she was likely around 300 or so years old or earlier given how old Zestiel seems.
Damn Mans was right on the angel part
If Vaggie died after them and appeared in Hell at somewhere else in the Pride Ring, it means she will have no idea whatsoever where her family are. If Carmila and her daughters are her family, of course. Yeah, she knows that they might be somewhere in Hell. But Pentagram City alone is already a big place. So for her to search for them for like forever is an impossible goal.
Bro knew Vaggie was a angel. I love FNaF
Bro Hazbin Hotel is one of the biggest reasons why I didn't kms now. The damn lore is so good and the animation is literally perfect man!
And I love listening to your theories
Love ya man, stay strong
Next thing we know Vaggie is a angel
;)
About that
It's basically confirmed they're connected by the way. Each episode has a focus on a pairing; Charlie and Adam, Alistor and Vox, Angel and Valentino and then Vaggie and Carmilla. Vaggie learnt "trust" through war, she's proficient in weapons, has the same colour scheme (including the eyes, being red with white pupils) and the fact that she wields an angelic weapon herself.
I don’t think its that deep, a lot of sinners have red sclera with white eyes (Velvette has this eye color as well), not to mention lot of hispanic/latin american countries have issues with war, drug cartels etc. which would provide an explanation on her proficiency with weapons, and an explanation for the duet is that they are both singing about protecting their loved ones. On the topic of location, we don’t know Carmilla’s origins, but we know that Vaggie lived in El Salvador.
While we don’t know when Carmilla (and her daughters) died, she is one of the older overlords. I’m assuming she became an overlord before or around the same time as Alastor who died in the 1930s, whereas Vaggie died in 2014
Bro when he talked about the angle from the trailer having the same x I lost it
Analysing the visuals i also find the shot of Carmilla and Vaggie in the same frame with Vaggie facing forward to be quite deliberate. The X over Vaggie's eye matches the lace design on Carmillas stockings. Furthermore - Vaggie is shown to have some sort of ballerina shoes matching the walking aesthetic that Carmilla and her daughters walk (tip toe), but Vaggie is seen walking flat footed, indicating that they are different, but similar, again hinting at a family relation.
I can accept the theory that Vaggie maybe the daughter of Carmilla. Vaggie MIGHT be an ex-Exterminator, but she is NOT that beheaded one.
1- It's implied the beheading happened in the Extermination that just happened a week ago (dripping blood from the head supports that) not years ago.
2- The pilot is confirmed to be canon, and starts the morning after the Extermination. Charlie & Vaggie are an item already and there's a photo of them as a couple at a theme park (Lu Lu World?) so had to have happened BEFORE this Extermination, before the beheading.
I think Vaggie is the daughter of Carmilla, but she used to be an angel/exorcist, and Vaggie knows who Carmilla is because she is an overlord (and might even know it's her mom but just keeps that secret), while I think Carmilla and her daughters don't recognize Vaggie because they might know Vaggie went to heaven en they don't realise that she has now become a sinner, or they might not even have been there when Vaggie died so they just don't realize she's there with them in hell now
I didn't really think of that. Maybe Carmilla was also an exorcist, and also sinned and went to hell, but didn't know if vaggie went to hell? I mean, that's a guess, and there's probably lots of holes in that theory.
Wasn't it like confirmed in a QnA that Vaggie was a human and we'd get to learn more later?
I love the editors character in the backround 😂
I am hoping Vaggie is Carmilla’s daughter but acknowledge that there are flaws to the theory, although I do wonder just how common finding family is in Hell because while we know Carmine and Angel Dust’s families are in Hell, it could be because of how/when they appeared. Also, while it might be outdated, wasn’t it stated most sinners change their names when they go to hell, except when making contracts. So it is possible they didn’t realize Vaggie was their sister, assuming they noticed her.
I also had another thought though when watching this, what if Lute was Molly or Angel’s mother?
I think they're both fallen angels
It would explain how Carmilla was able to kill an angel (angelic weapons) and how Vaggie knows that angels are difficult to sway (and would still make sense as to why they share a song)
I theorise that Vaggie may have come as an exorcist to Hell at first, met Charlie on accident, realised she wasn't as bad as demons were portrayed, fell in love, and went to try and change the angel's minds about the evil of demons
Her fellow "bothers in arms" may have stabbed her in the back and sent her to Hell after she was spewing "dangerous" information around in Heaven - which would lead to Vaggie having trust issues
i want to see this theory being added on to, now that episode 6 is out, i love the concept of vaggie being carmilla’s daughter
Little do they know
Yeah a friend of mine we were tossing this idea but we also thought up an idea that valvet might be a daughter of carmine's. Possibly the youngest daughter who got everything she wanted while her older sisters were more of the hard worker types. Wanting to prove themselves to their mother while valvet go into a newer age techvibe and wanted more to just be important without the work and became one of those nightmare dr phil kids.
You know it's strange that Vaggie is wearing a choker around her neck, because maybe she's hiding her neck injury if that makes sense.
Chokers can also be a sign of servitude!
@@QueenDianaWifeOfLlry considering how loyal she is to Charlie it's probably the servitude angle. She basically said herself that her only purpose is to help Charlie and that she's worthless if she doesn't succeed at that. Could just be 100% a stylistic choice tho
@maxs-lz4pn I absolutely agree it could just be a stylistic choice :)
As of the recent episode, I'm leaning towards the injuries part.
Vaggie seemed kinda into the military role during the hotels trust exercise so whether she's related to carmilla or not (which i also got those vibes during their "not" duet) i thought she'd be ex-military rather than ex-gangster
7:37
Welp now it's confirmed she was an exoticist but not the one that died in the 1st episode😂
I still think it's very much possible for Camilla and Vaggie to be mother and daughter. I'd imagine it'd be difficult to reconnect with a loved one in hell, especially if you die at different times. Sinners change in appearance depending on their lives on Earth and some even change their names. Even if someone where searching for a loved one, both people would have to be searching for them to reconnect.
Vaggie could have also been the youngest, which explains why she manifested in hell at a different time. If Carmilla were her mother and died while Vaggie was still a young child and assuming her father was out of the picture, it'd mean Vaggie was left an orphan needing to fend for herself and possibly having to turn to a gang out of necessity, and thus explain her proficiency with weapons.
So why isn't Carmilla searching for her missing daughter? Because she likely assumed she'd still be alive on Earth. And Vaggie could've been too young to properly remember her mother and thus have no leads to look for her or her sisters
Did anyone else notice Alistors reaction when he said he was on a sabbatical? It was like he was nervous about people finding out why he took a break from being an overlord
there are several clues that Carmilla is a former exorcist
- she recognizes Veggy as an angel immediately
- looks like she has horns, but when she lets her hair down you can see that she is without, unlike the daughters she probably had with a demon.
- Has the same coloring as the exorcists
- knows exactly how an angel fights and where to strike him, even though he has only faced one so far.
- he wears a mask, a sign that he does not want to be recognized by someone.
- if he were a former angel it would explain how he gets the angelic steel and thus fix what is to date the biggest plot hole. (precisely the whole angelic steel thing).
What if Carmella is an ex angel herself? It could be ex angels have a similar color scheme when sent to hell. It’s been proven hellborn can have kids, and that angels/heaven born CAN be sent to hell and lose their angelic status-what if her heaven born daughters decided to follow her after banishment? If they found out Carmella was an ex angel, then she’d have both the hell AND heaven after her and her family. I definitely think Vaggie is an ex exterminator or angel, but I don’t think she’s related to Carmella in the same way Carmella has her daughters.
I think Sera was vaggie’s mom because they share the same eyes.
But she has the same skin colour as carmala
I thought that they might be mother and daughter too. Mainly because of both of their colour schemes. Also they shared a song together which was kind of random.
Ya know, if Vaggie is Carmilla’s daughter, its entirely possible she was also involved with the exorcist’s death
I am inclined to believe that Vaggie is a converted Exterminator - a cross on her eye, a military bearing, an angelic weapon, but most importantly - her words to Charlie and her song. She speaks and reasons like a real angel, as they should be - guardians and protectors, guiding on the true path.
(Regarding the ending of the song - it was just a transition; if you look carefully, you can see that Carmilla has a different view outside the window. Most likely, she and Vaggie would simply have one motive - to protect someone dear).
There are similarities, but Vaggie's eyes are a different color, whereas red and white irises are a Carmain family trait. There is a moment in the song where Velvet appears in the same shot with Carmilla and her daughters, and it is clear that they have the same eye color. Plus, Velvet has white yarn in her hair that is obviously dyed and wears earrings just like Carmilla.
In addition, at some point in the third episode, I got the feeling that the confrontation between Carmila and Velvet reflects not only the conflict of generations (old versus new), but also the conflict of parents and children. In particular, in their song, Carmila chastises Velvet as a strict mother to a rebellious daughter. And at the end, you generally get the feeling that Carmilla is going to say: “Come on, go to the room, young lady!”))
And in the moments when they are shown together in the frame, their (family?) resemblance becomes visible. In any case, Velvet has the same eyes as Carmila and her daughters - red, with a white iris, which can be considered weak evidence of their family connection.
thats some legit logic right there
Carmilla might actually be a fallen angel too cuz isnt she the one that makes blessed weapon?
I personally think Vaggie looks sorta similar to Sera in the trailer and I can kinda put together that they are both angels. Idk I'm very excited to see this all play out
This was one of the thoughts I had when I first watched the episode. I saw their designs had really strong 'x' themes (Vaggie's eye and old clothes design and Carmilla's legs and horns), but I didn't even pick up on the color palette and all that. I also thought it was weird they got a song together if they didn't have a closer relationship.
I'm not certain about the 'Vaggie Angel' theory. Based on the reactions I think this is the first time an angel has ever been killed in an extermination, since the Vees were making war plans and everyone was just confused. Also since Adam and heaven pushed the extermination forward. Everyone know something's afoot, and I feel like if it had happened before it would be a different story. That said, I think since the angel in the show was killed in the latest extermination and Vaggie was around before that I don't think that Vaggie was killed as an angel and went to hell. Just the way the timeline looks to me is off.
I think it would be *insane* if Carmilla, who like you said wants to do everything to stay with her daughters, did some dealings with heaven or something to pull Vaggie away. I don't think they'd do that, but I would go nuts.
I don't think either of them are fallen angels. Viv stated that fallen angels are a lot more powerful than other demons, plus the storybook opening seems to hint that the fallen angel shtick is unique to Lucifer in the Hazbinverse. But I DO think that Carmilla and Vaggie knew each-other in their human lives on Earth, and that they were probably either surrogate or literal mother and daughter.
With the new episode, Vaggie is indeed a fallen angel, and a former Exorcist.
I think she is a exorcist because when she’s talking to Charlie on the rooftop of episode three she specifically says “your people” and we see that Charlie considers hell born demons, her people and sinners for people
What I can say is that the mother is always the one who knows best about her children.
GUYS ITS TRUE VAGGIE IS AN ANGEL
Daughter no angel yes
I'm also theorizing that the weapon used to kill the angel is a completely different weapon, one that she has hidden from the General Public and kept for herself in case she needed it.
Well, Vaggie was definitely an angel alright. It suck that Hazbin Hotel only have 8 episodes. This series go pretty hard.
There will be season 2