The Fall of the Great Empire of the Dawn | Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theory
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- There are many theories about the Great Empire of the Dawn (GEotD). They all mostly say the same thing: they were ancient dragonlords who once harnessed dragons before the Valyrians, leaving numerous structures across the world of A Song of Ice and Fire. They built the fused black stones like the Five Forts but also the oily/greasy black stones like Asshai. They were the predecessors of the Yi Ti, and they were brought down by the Bloodstone Emperor.
But are these theories actually sound, or are they just fanfiction? I dive in deep into this topic and put them to the test.
0:00 - Intro
0:17 - The Foundation of the Hightower
4:45 - Dragonsteel
7:41 - The Five Forts
10:29- Asshai
15:12 - Ghosts of in Dany's Dream
17:37 - The Shadow People
19:50- Worldbuilding
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Other Image Credits:
The Sacred Flames by Ishutani: www.deviantart.com/ishutani/a...
Valyrian Couple by Magali Villeneuve: / 710114230834491392
Giant Warrio by velinov: www.deviantart.com/velinov/ar...
Ancient Maze by lord-phillock: www.deviantart.com/lord-phill...
Eye of Raven by Artgerm: www.deviantart.com/artgerm/ar...
Seastone Chair by Matt Brown: www.artstation.com/artwork/mWEm8
Yeen by Enrique Murguia: www.artstation.com/artwork/JLW8v
Innsmouth Look by Odinoir: www.deviantart.com/odinoir/ar...
Merrow by JeffRussell: www.deviantart.com/jeffrussel...
East of Ibb by ReneAigner: www.deviantart.com/reneaigner...
Ashara Dayne by Elena María Vacas: www.artstation.com/artwork/9B4ZQ - บันเทิง
I'm of the mind that the Gemstone Emperors and their families did have strangely colored eyes. I think after the Amethyst Empress was murdered her family fled west and eventually became the Valyrians. They did not have control of the military so they did not know how to make steel. Yi Ti is just trying to capture the essence and majesty of the Great Empire. They are all up-jumped peasants and not actually of the ruling bloodlines. That's why they don't have gemstone eyes. The eyes come from some form of magic, so the families of the God-Emperors would not be inclined to give that to their peasants and vassals. All Valyrians were peasants when they fled the Great Empire so that's why they all have the eyes
I thought Dawn was made from a meteorite? Also the idea that some of these ancient landmarks were thought to have been constructed by giants due to their massive size reminds me of how the Ancient Greeks thought that the large walls of the Mycenaean cities that pre-dated them were built by cyclops as they thought it was impossible for humans to have erected such massive walls.
On the last bit, might be a stretch but the Bloodstone Emperor did marry a Tiger woman. Maybe the Empire of the Dawn wasn’t made of human races, after all, they also began their bloodline with the Lion of Night, so there’s some animal symbology that is tied to their mythology.
The new human Denizens could have adopted the old customs of the declining reminants of the old empire, much like how the First Men took on aspects of the Children’s religion/culture.
The Valyrians existing while both the Andals and First Men were in Westeros, would also explain why almost every major and powerful house in Westeros has an ancestral Valyrian Steel swords
We know this for a fact. The Valyrian empire existed for millennia up until 200 yrs before conquest, give or take a few years.
What's amazing is that even secondary houses in the North like Mormonts of Bear Island still have their Valyrian steel sword - or, at least they did have it until Bobby's rebellion. But the Lannisters tullys and Arryns have no such sword? Actually, since Brightroar or whatever it's call is now lost, at the start of our story the Starks are the only great house with a valyrian steel sword. I can understand the Tarlys having one and the Hightower's had one. But the Tyrells, Baratheons, Martell's Greyjoys, even Targs... all have none mentioned or have lost theirs.
@@burtan2000 Valaryia last for 5000 years before Doom!
5000 years ago is 3,000 BC. Stonehenge is newer than that and we have no clue who built it, or the Barrow burials, or hardly any archeological site dated 3,000BC for that matter. Its entirely possible that Asshai forgot they were capitol.
Regardless I think there is a connection to the Fisher queens and Sothoros regarding the fortress and mazes, and that they probably are connected with YiTi too.
Also, purple could actually be amethyst for all we know, just translated into a different language so it was confused.
I really hope he explains this stuff eventually. I've spent too many years wondering!
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We don’t know the names of people who built but it was either to track stars and or it was used as a place for a feast after a pilgrimage. People left Orkey, then other sites like Durrington walls (a Henge nearby) there are also the remains of ash and bone in the post holes.
I think the Fisher queens were Garth Greenhand's wives.
A terrific and well made video. I like the idea of grrm shining a spotlight to a planet once inhabited and developed by non human beings. This story of ASOIAF isn't gonna be end to end humans, politics, and intrigue. The world and its history is much more dense and far more older.
We need your ASOIAF videos on TH-cam again please come back I love your videos so much
Good theory.. The age of man being preceded by other non human races is a common thing amongst story. No surprise it is alluded to in Game of Thrones
Keep in mind that on the timescale we're talking about, the Great Empire of the Dawn could have easily existed, yet still post-dated the likes of the Mazemaker civilization by thousands of years.
As it is I'm really looking forward to a video from you on the true timeline of history and the true first Long Night. That is to say the Long Night of great floods rather than ice.
Just getting started on the video but before I dive in I wanted to thank you for the continued ASOIAF content!
Amazingly detailed and well-researched. Thank you for digging so deep.
There is the theory that Valeryan Steel is made by burning Shadewood giving it the smoky color. I wonder if maybe Dawn was made in the same way but with Weirwood. One theory is that Dawn might give its wielder slight precognitive abilities which would make it seem like the wielder an incredible swordsman. In this particular theory it's actually proposed that the same space rock that Dawn came from is what also brought Weirwood to Planet's making it an invasive species. Another theory says the Shadewoods are just corrupted Weirwood and the Hammer of the Waters wasn't done to stop humans from advancing onto Westeros but to stop the Shadewood from spreading their corruption to the continent.
Idk, it's just an interesting thought but I'm not really adding anything to it. Just bringing up the idea.
One cool thing I did think of recently though that is connected to the Weirwood/ Shadewood trees. On the world map commissioned and directed by George shows purple colored forests in Ulthos. Well I had the thought that maybe these trees are a combo of both trees. If fire and ice can combine, if love and hate can mate then maybe the trees can combine too and tbe blue and red leaves become purple. Idk what implications thus has or if it even makes sense. Just a fun idea I had.
Dragons stirred in the shadows of the sunrise could be just metaphor. The sunrise could represent the empire of the dawn, and the shadow would be the successor state of valyria (with dragons).
ooh cant wait. ive been missing you
You have no idea how much I love your content
Unexpected video! What a pleasant surprise
Did anyone else catch it? When GRRM talked about wildfire he didnt just describe it as green. He said JADE-green. And he was specifically talking about the Hightowers using wildfire to change the color of the flame at the top of the Hightower in order to declare a state of war and call their banners. I think this was 100% pointing towards House Hightower being the descendents of the Jade Emperor.
Another amazing video.
Late to the party, but this video is awesome. Subbed.
Besides the wall, winterfell and storms end, Bran the builder also helped with the hightower.
Please, keep this series up, please, please, pretty please
Could be why the valyrians annihilated the rhoynar--they knew how to make valyrian steel
Awesome bro
I like watching your videos although I don't agree with some of your interpretations, including the (non-)existance of the GEotD. I believe there was an ancient civilization now referred to as the GEotD, but it might not be as simple as being Valyria's direct predecessor, and many parallels, e. g. between the gemstone emperors and the figures in Dany's "wake the dragon" dream are meant to be symbolic hints and foreshadowing rather than accurate visions of the past. If you don't already know, I'd like to refer to Crowfood's daughter/the Disputed Lands, who has some great videos reconciling the Mazemakers, the GEotD and the origin of Valyrians and the dragon. In a nutshell: Both dragons and Valyrians (and Daynes, by the way) are products of blood magic/genetic engineering by what is now referred to as the GEotD. The people of the GEotD don't share, however, the same genetic heritage if the Valyrians, but are probably descendants of the Mazemakers and/or the Old Ones. And that's quite complementary to your theories without excluding the possibility that there was an earlier, advanced civilisation which might have had a hand in the creation of the Valyrians and the dragons without being Valyrian itself in character.
Anyway, how do you explain the Valyrian appearance of the Daynes, which is not necessarily due to Valyrian ancestry according to GRRM? How do Daynes, Dawn, the Dayne's fallen star and the Bloodstone Emperor's mysterious black stone tie in?
Agreed, I feel like a lot of evidence in favour of the GEotD is wilfully ignored in this video.
@@melledevries4685 Not surprising given that these videos are trying to disprove the GEotD theory. The creator is doing a good job at spotting the GEotD theory's weaknesses, I just don't think that these two theories are necessarily mutually exclusive. Plus, the connection between Asshai and the Origins of dragons has been established from the very beginning on, and even in his original letter to his agent in 1993, GRRM was planning for a prominent role for Asshai. I therefore genuinely believe that Asshai as a the origins of dragons is an important and integral element of the background story.
He isn't saying that the GEotD didn't exist, just that they weren't Dragonriders coming from outer space who made DNA valyrians or other crazy stuff like that. They were a human empire that ended up dividing into different kingdoms as often happens. Ashaii have legend about how the Valyrians became dragonriders and seems to point out towards the Children of the Forest, which is the subject of his previous video. Martin also do red herrings and stuff that are just world building.
I think the GEOTD is just the eastern interpretation of the age of heroes. Garth Greenhand is basically the ASOIAF version of a Fallen One (like in the book of Genesis in The Bible) who came down and mated with human women. The first generation of his children became like nephilim i.e. demigods who were giant in size with magical powers. Garth's kids were the gemstone emperors. For instance, I think the first Hightower was the jade emperor. Jade is described in 2 different types: Jadeite and nephrite. The eastern myth of the legendary hero gives 5 names for who hero might be: hyrkoon the hero, yin tar, eldric shadowchaser, azor ahai, and NEFERION. Add in the fact that the Hightowers change their flame to a jade green in times of war and I think its pretty clear Hightowers were the jade empire. Still puzzling out the other gemstones but I think the Pearl Emperor was likely Starks or Boltons and Brandon of the Bloody Blade was likely who committed the Blood Betrayal against the Amethyst Empress.
My man please return to us with your wisdom
Nice use of Sima Yi from Dynasty Warriors as The Bloodstone Emperor.
So after watching all of your videos we have the following:
The children and the giants were enemies. The giants created dragons and built the dragon fired black rock buildings and mazes. So not the dawn empire.
The children created the White Walkers with obisidian created in the vulcanic caves under the earth. The W.W.s exist to kill men, another set of enemies of the children. Then the W.W.s scaped children's control. The children taught valyrian to make valyrian steel to kill their icy monsters. At the same time they taught vayrians how to tame dragons, the creation of their original enemies, therefore stealing warfare goods.
The children also created the deep ones to destroy the giants. The deep ones' descendants built the oily black stone buildings that keep pale grass at bay. Pale grass if often associated with W.W.s, the childrens creation they now need to destroy.
So all the drama in ASOIAF universe is caused by two dying species trying to outlive eachother, but in the process only further destroying everything
AMAZING
Well with GRRM beeing a huge fan of Roman history at large my theory around these topics is that the Great empire of the Dawn (for its time) was one huge entity encompasing Essos, Valyria and YiTi. With remote outposts around the world explaining things like the black stone at Oldtown. Then the Long Night hit them and the empire was shattered into 2 subsection. One became the golden empire of YiTi the other half beeing Valyria. Basicly mirroring the western and eastern split of the roman empire.
Would also perfectly work with the statement that Valyria was rising during the timespan for it was actually rising from the sepeation becoming much more of a local powerhouse.
The five forts absolutly seems to be a different version of the wall and i would not be shocked to learn that there is a version of the nights watch there as well with the same oath.
After all the oath speaks about themslelves as watchers on the wallS where one should not forget about the S.
Pretty sure that was build after the long night same way the wall was.
In Asshai by the shadow. There is no ice cream. There is only frozen yogurt. Which they call frogurt. And the frogurt is haunted too.
Is there a reason you used sima yi as the thumbnail lol great video.
Thumbnail Simi Yi from dynasty warriors
Lovecraft references a ‘green soap stone’ in call of Cthulhu and A Shadow Out of Time
I really like your points. Can John still end up being an immortal skinchanger. If his only real manifestation of the power is the resurrected body,maybe a mount,and the general immortality and potential connection with the weirwood network ? The commection being to bran or any potential limitation. My point is his end is a forever ranging sortve thing
The theory is that he Azor Hai! The Bloodstone Emperor. That Valyria was colony by them.
It’s colonyception until u realize it was all 1 land
I think there’s an aspect to the Great Empire of Dawn story that has to do with the Bloodstone Emperor killing the Amethyst Empress and bringing the Long Night, and that being a parallel myth of Azor Ahai killing Nissa Nissa. I doubt that the choice of an Amethyst Empress (and the other gemstone references in the dream in GOT) and descriptions of Dany’s eyes as amethyst is not just a matter of sounding cool. Clearly there was some cataclysm in past, before the Doom of Valyria. That cataclysm was probably the Long Night.
Please sir. Can I have more soiaf content?
Ok Here it goes I think the children of the forest are making all the sub creators to fight off men all over the world. Past and Peasant. When man comes in to close for them and they cant handle it any more, they turn to magic and use the hell out of it till something sticks. Just a thought. Can I hear a hell yeah?
Maybe all the 'mazes' are just tunnels dug by fire wyrms
NICe
The mazes in the Stark crypts imply the Original Starks were giants. And Bran came and took their lands and titles.
Excuse me ,you forgot how the entire journey of the Bloodstone Emperor and the Night King is Retconned and retold with the entire story with AEGON I Targaryen,AEMOND,Daemon,Waymar Royce,Bloodraven,Jon Snow,Stannis,Red Kraken Dalton Greyjoy ,Beric and CROW'S EYE this is Emperor Bloodstone revived ! If Emperor Bloodstone is a FAKE why Martin REPEAT that how MANY Characters??And you forgot to explain HOW the hell House Dayne and the Bloodstone Emperor's history are so absurdly similar! Plus all the Dawn , Dayne wordplay WHAT is the origin of dragon steel being that the Valyrians according to what you said were still working with iron, and the whole THEME that time is a WHEEL that repeats itself over and over again again with new names!
Good Video. I think you are completely wrong but well made Sir. Valiant Effort.
if the bloodstone causing the others to wake up how can they fight until the north of westeros? when all the man still in the dawn continent? can anyone explain the timeline? if the hero fighting the second long night? who defeated the first long night?
I love how all of the lore just feeds the theory that the world of Ice and Fire is just another planet in George's 1000 worlds, one that humanity came to thousands of years ago, wiped out the native inhabitants, then devolved and forgot their own origins.
Thumbnail is Sima Yi from dynasty warriors 8
Bro where did you go
I'm curious what the children of the forest thought of the empire of the dawn, as they came even before "the FIRST men"... Which would actually make the "First Men" the "Second Men" actually
If the valryans were rising around then couldn't it be an early valryan construction
Lucifer means Lightbringer!!
Is that Sima Yi ?????????
Well the Chinese do consider whiteness is next to godliness, BUT how did they get Blonde/White hair and colored eyes??? hehe
Probably by breed with them. In other words having sex with them. There a theory that thousand of years ago that Yi Ti trade with them also royal members had marry to Jade Stone Emperor.
George made to look cool
GOT is back. start making vids again.
What if the great emperor is the night king
Probably people of Yi Ti a mythical ppl (cuz they experiment alot with magic) and eventually die out like the children of the forest
Why do we ignore fishy people
So what is Dawn? Made from Comet? That powerful
Yep we shouldn't trust legends
is this channel dead now?
I think so I just found it
your theories is what i think too, how the hell that GEOTD, a human empire can live in a world with mammoths, giants,... whom know magic. It just weird, human in the story are the one who be teach to use it, if GEOTD know magic, then they should be the one told the human now it, not the COTF, just say so :)
Lost knowledge, magic was probably seen as a status symbol so the people that fled were commoners who didn't know much about it except for some natural sensitives (people who are born wargs/skinchangers). It's like how the Saturn V rockets can't really be built now despite the blueprints being present.
May wanna look into Iapetus, the Greek Titan who is linked with Japheth, son of Noah. Noah being 10th in line after Adam and Eve. Iapetus has a 2 brothers of Interest. Kronos, who's son Zeus is 12th in line. His son Apollo, is 13th. There is a prophecy by Prometheus bound that Zeus would be usurped by a son of his.
In Norse Mythology, Zeus and Apollo are Odin and Baldur (the sun god). Baldur is murdered and said to return to rule the new age.
This ties into who is Jesus. As Jews worship the god who flooded the world, Zeus. Though Jesus announces himself as the Morning Star. Lucifer, Eosphoros who is son of Eos, and Grandson of Hyperion. Hyperion being brother to Iapetus, makes Lucifer also the 13th in line since Adam and Eve.
Another person who is 13th in line is Deucalion, the flood hero in Greek Legend. Deucalion is son of Prometheus, who is son of Iapetus.
This is the Empire of the Dawn in Asoiaf. The 13 gemstone emperors. With the 13th usurping the throne. Followed by the Long Night.
Lucifer, who is Eosphoros in Greek, is Earendel in Old English. Frodo holds up the Star of the Morning and hails Lucifer.
This is Daenerys, who is the Dayne Heiress. The Sword/Star of the Morning from Star Fall.
@@TheAlaskansandman >yfw Tolkien made that reference in the Silmarillion
This is absolutely fascinating, where did you get this information?
I think the content creator died