Lindholm, Trade Too Much? Another Flames & Canucks trade!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- Do you like the Lindholm trade OR do you think the Canucks gave up too much? Why are the Canucks and Flames always trading? Zadorov & now Lindholm? Why not Tanev?
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The price tag for Lindholm was steep but I don't think the Canucks gave up too much in the trade.
1. Kuzmenko was no longer a fit under Tocchet and needed a change of scenery (hope he finds his game in Calgary, really positive guy!)
2. Canucks needed a 2nd line center that would work in Tocchet's defensive system
3. Denies Avs, Oilers, Bruins and other playoff teams a quality Selke caliber centre
4. No core assets or prospects were moved
5. Leverage for negotiations with Pettersson: if they find chemistry, Petey more inclined to stay at a price that can fit Lindholm. if Petey threatens to walk, Lindholm is an affordable replacement (or threat of replacement)
6. 650k additional cap space to grab another addition before playoffs (via trade or unsigned free agent... remember Zadorov trade was possible because Canucks had the cap space!)
7. Canucks reinforcing reputation as a pro-Swedish club (able to attract Swedish players at a more reasonable cost)
8. Having multiple players on the roster named Elias or Nils is hilarious
9. Pettersson - Lindholm - Hoglander
This is an incredible comment. I love all of them especially #3 and #9! I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
That's what I don't like about this trade. I don't like giving up this much for a rental. But if we make the Cup final or win the Cup then it's all worth it. @@scottstenlund4431
True, but this looks like a Benning move at face value. You can't deny that.
@@scottstenlund4431 I understand that but what do you do when you have little to no playoff experience, wave the white flag in surrender or take the opportunity to make some noise and try your best to win a Cup?
@@Siksdev I agree that it’s a whole different game but there’s only 1 way to get playoff experience.
You gotta go all in when you have the opportunity. Their turn around is almost unbelievable after the season they had last year. I just hope they stay healthy and can make a run.
I understand the thought process but I'm not convinced it's the right one. We don't have to go all in. I really liked the team as is and the prospects. Brian Burke said that most rentals are too expensive and don't pan out. We are 1st in the entire NHL after 49 games. We are 1st in Goals For. So the idea that we had to do this to have a legit shot at winning the Cup isn't necessarily true. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
@@kempnercanucks Lindholm is not any rental, he is a perfect fit, and we did not mortgage the farm to get him..
@@leechap3 he is a rental. He wants $9M AAV. That’s why Calgary didn’t re-sign him.
@@kempnercanucks I realize he is probably a rental, I just want to win a cup.
@@leechap3 I think we had a legit shot before we traded for Lindholm.
Well was worried when they traded bo before but after seeing all the dealing Alvin has done I trust the management. I am not a gm I am a fan. They have a plan trust the plan.
I agree that their track record has been excellent so far. I just don't think they will bat 1,000. I'm hoping this is not their mistake. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
what makes me nervous.... what team in their first year of breaking thru go on their way to the stanley cup? teams need experience and need to learn how to win the cup. this is not the canucks year.. maybe next or after that.
Your point is VERY valid! I hope Lindholm goes nuclear and we win the Cup. We are ALL IN apparently. Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
That was my argument. But fans seem to love it - until they're calling for everyone's heads when the team is full of overpaid old guys. It happened with Mike Gillis.
I'm not nervous at all. It isn't a cup-or-bust trade: "all-in" is just a sports media tagline to build up hype. Canucks gave up none of their best prospects, and spent picks in a draft class generally considered to be relatively weak. I argue this trade makes the Canucks better in the _next few_ years because offers the opportunity of an extended introduction with Lindholm to see if he wants to stick around. Barring that, 5.5 mil more to resign guys with that they otherwise would be giving to a player that does not work in Tocchet's system in Kuzmenko. There's no need to see this deal in black-and-white.
Kuzmenko was a cap dump while also bolstering their top 6. So the value is right its like the Zadorov trade Calgary was dumping cap so they can weaponize their cap space to get assets so it makes sense for both teams.
I understand but 5 players for 1 who is a UFA and probably just a rental is what makes me nervous
We did not give up too much, we gave up what was required to get the player. This is the one player available right now that checks every box for what the team is looking for. If you don't think this is a year that the Canucks should take some risks to try to get a Cup, then when will that year come? never? In order to win you have to strike when the chance comes, not be timid.
I appreciate you commenting. I have no problem that it's not the same as me. I agree, Lindholm is an excellent player. A player who we needed to contend with. I hope it works out. Go Canucks go!
Calgary made lindholm a Allstar for the break when he’s no where close to one it’s so funny
Maybe it's because the rest of the Flames are terrible?
Here’s the thing. On what planet and in which multiverse would you be able to keep Kuz in the lineup with the way he was playing? It was impossible. He had to go. He could not stay in the top 6 if this team was to make a run. And no, Lindholm can not re-sign because clearing that cap space is crucial to signing our RFAs.
What’s interesting is Kuzmenko had 11 points less than Lindholm this season and we barely played many minutes per game & was a healthy scratch 6 times this season.
If it turns out and we get the cup,it dont matter one bit .🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I agree 100% but I thought we were good enough with who we had. 1st in the NHL after 49 games in. You can't ask much more from a team than that. Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
flames fan here - I agree with you and I appreciate your honesty. Lindholm needs a dynamic player in order to produce offensively. He is an absolute defensive beast, one of the smartest defensive forwards in the league. I do think he will be good offensively if he plays with Pettersen or Miller. He can find soft spots, just needs a skilled player to feed him. I also think the package is the absolute best we could've hoped for, but if you needed a 2c you got it. Possible win win situation. Let me know if you'd like to do a show with us about it one day.
I’d be open to that. Do you guys have time this weekend?
The Canucks have worked a lot on their pro scouting starting with Cammi Granato who is really good. What she has done is give decision makers a great perspective on available players around the league AND what they have on their roster. This is Rutherfords MO and what he is training Allvin to understand. There are players who fit hand in glove with the culture and systems that the team plays with and who fill deficiencies in the line up. Rutherford is known for paying the price for such players and has 3 cup rings to show for it. I'm not worried.
Trading a bunch of what if's for a proven commodity that fits our needs right now is good business from my point of view. As a Canucks fan I'm happy with taking Calgary's best forward without losing a single regular roster player or prime prospect. Go Canucks Go!
I’m glad you like this trade. I do like the addition of Lindholm
Lindholms success is very much in the hands of Pettersson. As per what U were saying I absolutely agree with you and listening to the comments from the other side (Calgarys) Vancouvers offer was very generous indeed. As per the contract Lindholm can hope for 8 or 9+ but who will fork up the money. He is a tad old for an 8 year extension as well. With Hronek and Petterson up for new contracts the Canucks won't be able to pay what Lindholms asks so ihe must be considered a rental. If we get kicked out in the second round I think some guys will look at this deal a bit different but on the other hand if we go all the way Toccheet will remain the hero and possibly get the keys to the city.
Those are great points. I just don’t like the idea of paying that much for a rental player.
I think the price was a bit high, but we needed a guy like him. I thought he would be to expensive long before this trade and I was right. That being said he will set our lines. We could really go on a run. I think he will show how good he really is. It will be like getting Hronek. A player that makes a difference. I think we should get the PresidentsTrophy. I would like to see Jurmo play in the AHL. I saw Lindholms weight at 202 pounds. Does not gaurantee a Cup but we should be relevant these playoffs.Kuz and Mach were our weakest links and we kept the better player. Lindholm has a high level. He is elite. By the end of the season people will be happy. I am itching for the AllStar weekend to end. Want to see the team play. We can run four lines. And be dangerous on every line.
We definitely improved for the short term for sure. I am looking forward to the All-Star game but I’m with you I’m chomping at the bit to see Linholm in a Canucks jersey playing with Pettersson.
Day one flames fan here and on and off season ticket holder at the Dome. Lindholm is WAY MORE ELITE than any of his stats over his whole career shows. His positioning and defensive play is legit elite elite elite, wait until you see how he defends on the PK. It will amaze you his defensive play. He is ALWAYS in the right spot. I don't think this was an overpay, as i feel like what you guys gave up is at minimum what he is worth, as i have watched every single game of his in the 6 years in calgary, this is going to leave a HUGE hole defensively for Calgary. Good luck to you guys and your run! Cheers from Cowtown!
I'm so glad you took the time to comment. I know very little about Lindholm and I'm encouraged by your assessment. I just hope we can re-sign him. Then I will feel a lot better about the trade.
Good deal. I thought too steep at first, too, but after reflection it's not that bad We can trade Lindholm for better in the off season and get Kuzi back for pennies on the dime.
Thanks for commenting. We can’t trade Lindholm in the offseason. He’s a UFA not a RFA
Too much if they dont sign him.
Too much if signing him means someone leavex.
Good, they didnt move a core prospect
right!
Canucks essentially gained a top 6 centre and 650k in cap space right now and if Lindholm signs it’s a big win besides kuzy everything we traded probably won’t help the Flames for another 3-5yrs
Good points Joe. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
if it's just a rental, then it's too much. JR says they hope to be able to resign him. if they do, the price is alright. i trust jimmy.
Rutherford said he's not sure he will be able to sign him but they will try. It's a wait and see bec he wants to see if Lindholm will have good team chemistry and production.
Lindholm is definitely what we needed he is a selke type number 1 or 2 center definite upgrade over kuz. As for the trade I think it's a bit too much but I think management might think this is the year? I mean we don't have many players signed long term this team might be totally different after this season
Those are great points. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
i dont understand this idea people have that its "too much". i will admit its a steep price, but it was entirely logical as to why it was so steep. i love kuzy but lets be real, in a 2-1 3rd period in the playoffs, he is riding the pine 100%. compare to lindholm, great in faceoffs, a selke finalist who was only overshadowed by bergeron. he is the guy u will put out in that 2-1 3rd period to take crucial faceoffs. yeah, he is a rental, but if the canucks cant sign him then it was a cap dump to resign petterson. as far as the other pieces... hunter is a nice offensive D man, but hes gonna struggle to make the roster in that role when we have quinn hughes, also with petterson and willander as D prospects, theres not a lot of room. 1st round this year is almost a 2nd rounder in a draft class that isnt deep. 4th rounder and other prospect are no big loss. i think this was a smart move overall, even at the price
The other thing is the competition. Lindholm was the most sought after piece on the market, so they had to pay a premium to get him. And he happens to be exactly what the Canucks were looking for in a player.
For me steep price means too much if it's only a rental and we don't win a cup. But that's just me. I'm happy we got Lindholm but he was expensive. I just hope we re-sign him
It doesn't matter if the Canucks resign lindholm. Either scenario helps the Canucks. The positive of resigning are obvious. Not resigning him mean we free up 5.5M of cap space for next year from the Kuz deal that were definitely going to need.
I think it matters a lot. Re-signing a talented player is always a good step in the right direction. I hope Lindholm goes on fire with the Canucks!
If Lindholm won't take less than 8-9 long term, the Canucks had better hope they win the Cup this year, because fans will be calling for their heads next season when there's a steep decline. They've gotten really lucky this season, but getting tossed in the 2nd round would leave them with very little cap space to sign everyone (maybe they get Pettersson and Hronek done) and then they're trying to fill out the team with castoffs and AHL players. Dakota Joshua has been excellent this year, so it's unlike he resigns for cheap. People suddenly seem to want Myers back and he'll resign for a lot less than 6, but how much less? At this point, even at his best he's at most a $3 million player. I get why they're going for it, considering how well everyone's doing and the unlikelihood of being able to bring everyone back next season, but to give up all of these futures, some of whom will pan out, seems a bit much. Again, if it all works and they win the Cup, everyone's happy and who cares if they have a few bad seasons after this and have to retool? But if they don't, things could get ugly again.
I agree...it's a Cup or bust mentality. I'm not a fan of that kind of mentality. Those contracts for next season are concerning and we will lose players no matter what. Great news is our AHL team is looking much better.
I’m really nervous tooo❤
I would have felt better if Tanev was included in that deal. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
This trade I think we have to wait and see. if the Canucks win the cup, they didn't give up too much, if the fall very short, like a 2nd round exit, then they did lol. Even if they don't win, I still think it's worth shoving all in because our core guys are in their prime and they're sick of waiting. They're ready now, so taking a chance now is worth the risk. Every year will never feel like a perfect team (they are incredibly rare), so if we keep waiting and waiting, we are going to have to wait a longgg time. So let's go for it now lol
That's a perfect definition of going all in. I do appreciate the Canucks effort. I just felt they are contenders without Lindholm. This trade helps us big time hopefully in the short term. I hope we win the Cup. Brian Burke said years ago that most rentals are too expensive and don't pan out. I hope Vancouver is the exception to this statement.
I didn’t love the trade but if the Canucks are able to keep Boeser, Miller, Petey, Hughes, Hronek, Linholm, Joshua, Garland, Hoglander and Demko in tact for a long time I think the Canucks can be strong for a very long time.
I agree 100%. I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
I am glad that unlike a lot of fans, the current Canucks management are not too pussified to to take a calculated risk to increase our chances of winning a cup.
I agree with you give to much up Vancouver did,,
I hope I’m wrong and everything pans out
I think it’s a good trade
Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
💯
We traded a RW with a bad defensive game for a selke finalist Center. Hes also a finisher, playing with bad players. I think he will finish over PPG with the canucks. In a perfect world, we resign him and he takes a discount. I'm expecting a deal close to Kardi cost(jim rutherford signed him to his elc) there's history there. If we can surround him with good players, he will flourish. He finished second to Bergeron when he had good players on his line. +60.
I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
@@kempnercanucks Hughes at 7.85 for 3 more years, Demko for 2 more at 5 and Miller at 8x6 is proof players are willing to leave pie for others. I wouldn't be suprised if Hronek, Petterson and Lindholm follow suit. HB has good totals in the ohl, but hes a bad skater(the reason he didn't make the juniors). The list of draft+1 players that do this and dont crack the nhl is long. The pick on average, has a 5% chance to produce a 100 games in the nhl player. It was high quantity, I dont feel they got quality.
Great return for Calgary on a UFA 🔥
I think so too! They should be very happy with who they got. Will Kuzy play with Hub? Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
@@kempnercanucks I think Kuz will benefit a lot being the main focal point of Calgarys powerplay. They literally have zero threat on their PP.
We traded Kuzmenko and his salary … the good news we have a deep prospect pool we did not touch are best players or in Abby we gave up prospects that can be mabyes? What if Hunter does not pan out or Jurmo gotta take chances got to give up somthing to get someone like lindholm … are top prospects is wallinder and lekkermaki raty pettersson got so Much depth
I too am happy we didn't mess with our top prospects. Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
I agree, 5 players with potential for 1 guy? Do playoffs bring that much money and perks? What do management gain from playoffs? More than players? I still think canucks have more up their sleeve like petey. Coach doesnt like him, just like horvat. Money will be blamed but i believe its already a done deal. Perhaps with NYI? Or a conglomerate trade to get petey there?
I like the All In approach but I liked our teams chances without Lindholm. We will see what happens. Go Canucks go.
The point you keep forgetting is that the object is to win The Cup. The Canucks have never been in a better position to go for it.
@@leechap3 Lee I totally understand that point. Did you know that every year teams trade for rentals and don’t win the Cup? Getting Lindholm improves this team for the next 5 weeks then playoffs. I hope we win. I hope Lindholm delivers.
@@kempnercanucks Teams that get the right rental also win cups. There are plenty of examples of that. Its not a guarantee, it's improving the odds, and I like our odds considerably more with Lindholm than with Kuzmenko. He figures to be a far better fit in this lineup.
@@leechap3 I agree he looks to be a better fit. We will see soon.
Kuzi had 27% shooting percentage, Jurmo wasn't signed. They sold high on Hunter. 1st round pick would pan out in 4 or 5 years, like Hunter. I thought you were around the team. Create your own channel? What's wrong with you, alienate your subscribers cause many of us disagree. This is a cup run? Kuzi would never play in playoffs, healthy scratch. If your that sentimental, get used to disappointment. Rutherford and Alvin don't care about our feelings, it's a business. They want to win a cup. Chill out on telling us what to do. We listen to you, and your acting like a fan girl at a Taylor Swift concert. Calm down
Thanks for watching. This is just an initial video on my opinion of the deal. I hope it works out great for our Canucks.
I like Kuzmenko as a person and a player. I get he wasn't going to fit in the Tocchet system. But I can still be disappointed we traded him away for most likely a rental player. Granted Lindholm is an excellent player and I really hope he re-signs with us. But if he only wants the $9M AAV then he's a rental. And I do think Hunter is a very good prospect and player. He could have a very bright NHL future. He's tearing up the OHL right now as a Dman. Those guys are hard to come by.
But I get it, you got to give up something to get something. I just hope we can re-sign Lindholm as I would be totally okay with this deal or if we actually win a Cup with him.
Go Canucks go!
Way too high. Kuzy is incredible. Canucks WILL regret this.
They might but it does sound like it as they felt Kuzmenko didn’t fit our system.
Ya. Swedes always win you cups. Please take Markstrom back.
LOL
We gave up 4 prospects and Kuzy basically. Hunter and the 1st rounder are good prospects. That is a ton.
I agree! I don't like giving up a lot for a rental player. Hopefully we can re-sign Lindholm...Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
What is the point of having a lot of good prospects if you never leverage any of them in order to take a run at a cup? The odds are high that none of what the Canucks gave up will cause them to regret this move.
@@leechap3 I think Hunter is going to be very good. He’s 3rd in all of OHL scoring right now.
If you study the deal you'll realize quickly that we didnt over pay.
I have studied it and I'm coming to one conclusion: If the Canucks can win the Cup this season and or re-sign Lindholm this is a good trade. If not, it's not worth all that we gave up. But that's just my opinion.
With all due respect Trev, and I sincerely mean that, the Canucks proved you wrong a bit there on your January picks…thinking they continue on that trend. The most important thing to keep in mind here is Kuzmenko will NEVER be a playoff player and would NEVER fit with Tocchet. With that in mind they didn’t have a chance with him here, well, the only other option would be fire Tocchet and that’s not happening. Rutherford drafted Elias when back in Carolina and if he works here will re-sign him, management knows EXACTLY what they are doing and who they got.
I also believe they are not done. Be prepared for that 2025 1st-round pick to go along with Mikheyev. Petey clearly stated he wants to win now. Management said this past home-stand will determine their actions. The players actions deemed a response from management and they respond with a playoff calibre right-handed #2 two-way centre. You think Petey is very happy and excited right now. He was just gifted a Swedish cerebral centre. I bet the boys are elated and will soon share their love in Toronto. What another great gift would be….well for Captain Quinn. Can you imagine the look on Quinn’s face when “Dad” walks into the room. I know it’s pie in the sky, but it’s fun to dream and really this whole season has been pie in the sky so maybe not so far-fetched. I guess one could have the option of dropping Hronek down one spot and having Zadorov/Cole as the 6th/7th rotating in and out. Man that would be a tough as nails defence core. Honestly, I don’t really think we NEED Tanev, but it’s fun to dream. Then there’s still Juulsen, he has value and very underrated…I wonder what they do with him..
I appreciate your comment. I get that Tocchet didn't like Kuz. But I thought it was a sophomore slump but not a we are done with you kind of moment. Apparently the Canucks are done with Kuz and rid themselves of $5.5M for next season. They got value. My problem is if we don't re-sign Lindholm it's a very expensive rental. Thanks for watching and commenting. Go Canucks go!
@@kempnercanucks I think you place too much negative slant on the word rental. Rental players are not ideal but if you want to win a Cup then sometimes they are necessary. And it doesn't make sense to fall in love with a player when his flaws means he is not a fit on the team.
@@leechap3 Lee I’m very clear I like actual hockey trades. I don’t like rental trades. Hopefully this pans out for us.
@@kempnercanucks I’m with you 100% of the way. If they loose out first round and don’t re-sign him it’s a total bust…or if he’s not working out, they could trade him before the deadline..that could still be an option if he isn’t gelling.
@@Herrlorddonkoenigczar absolutely
No.
calgary got better vancouver got worse in this trade
In the short term it’s the complete opposite. Calgary got way worse & the Canucks got way better
It's not a good trade!
Thanks for watching & commenting. Tell me why you think it’s not a good trade.
Lindholm literally has zero passion and energy to his game.
Zero? That's hard to believe. Maybe it's be cause he plays in Calgary. That would suck the life out of any player. lol Go Canucks go!
@@kempnercanucks 🤣🤣🤣💯
@@leechap3 😉🤣
Absolutely too much. He's not that good.
Seems like that, right? Maybe he slays it in Vancouver. He should be pumped from going to the garbage dump of the Flames to the best team in the NHL.
@@kempnercanucks You mean the Bruins?
I intentionally meant the Canucks who are in 1st place. Your Bruins are 2nd. And by landing Lindholm we just got better. It's going to be interesting how it all pans out. @@johnbrowne2170
@@kempnercanucks I want the Bruins to meet the Canucks in the final just to see if the Vancouver fans riot like they did last time. That was fun to watch.
@@johnbrowne2170 You know what's crazy. My brother was at that game and he over heard some of the fans say that win or loss they were going to cause some issues. But I know you think it was entertaining but there was so much video footage that a lot of people got huge fines. They all learned hard lessons from that day from their stupidity.
What's hilarious about your comment is that you can't handle that the Canucks are better than the Bruins. Yes they are tied in points but we have 1 more win so technically we are in 1st. So instead of admitting that you took the low road & made fun of our tragedy. #classymove