Always wondered how axis tilt correlated with layouts. Good to know when I think of pin to pap it’s not just a random guess, it’s based off your axis tilt.
Thanks MO!! GREAT VIDS. GOT Ron at Merribowl in Livonia helping me with analysis, numbers lessons. In a few weeks we will start building my Arsenal with RADICAL!! CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT ILL BE THROWING!!!
Moe did a seminar years ago at Bowling Academy in Rotterdam, New York. That is or was 5 min from my grandparents house. I think that is pretty cool. Nice little town. I also worked for AMF at Hanover lanes when he was with AMF.
Look at radical drill sheets: that dotted line is the general axis migration down the lane, beginning at PAP as thrown. So a short pin layout being small hook/control I would say mid to high tilt enjoys this. Low tilt players... check your track: might work, might not, staying off the thumbhole.
For us normal league amatuers what are all the numbers you spew out? No one in thevideos i watch actually show a detail description of what they are doing and how to get these numbers. Numbers angles, numbers angles over and over, we are not all pros 🤨
Devon Hackett He’s referring to the bowler’s PAP or Positive Axis Point. The measurement is taken from the center of the bowlers grip to the point of axis spin at release. You can research more about bowling PAP for a clearer explanation and how to determine your PAP if you’re interested.
I have no problem determining PAP. I must have missed the part where he said anything about "center of grip" and there is still no reference point for the "7/8ths up". Thanks.
Devon Hackett 7/8” up is from a line drawn 90 degrees laterally from the grip center. Mine is 5 1/4” over, 3/8” up. A bowling quarter scale or pro sec helps with the measurements.
How is this bowler able to change his tilt? I have low tilt (0-4 degrees) and high rotation (75-80 degrees). I can easily change rotation from 0 to 80 but can’t change my tilt much. High rotation helps me get the ball down lane before hooking but I’d like a higher tilt so I can stay behind the ball without having it hook early and strong. Coming up the side seems to weaken the hook and the hit.
Seek out a qualified coach that can help you "work the inside of the ball" and properly rotate around the side in order to increase your tilt and lower your track.
RadicalBowling Thanks for the reply. Yes, I’ve received coaching from a USBC Silver and a Gold coach. 10 private lessons total. One said to come up the side and the other said to bend my wrist severely to the left, almost 90 degrees like Jakob Butturff uses, very awkward. Yet I see many senior bowlers with a very high tilt that don’t come up the side nor use that awful 90 degree wrist bend. I’m scratching my head with this higher tilt challenge.
@@Mote78 Tilt is very hard to change and is almost like a bowling fingerprint. Some say to wear a golf glove and enlarge your ring finger hole if necessary, so that you can start to feel the ring finger more on release. Some say to try and roll a backup ball which also focuses more on the ring finger. Personally, the only thing I haven't tried is the golf glove idea and I'm at the point where I am accepting my high tilt for what it is and will use other adjustments to compensate instead, as well as more surface and assym cores.
Joe HOENIG So you have high tilt and want to lower it? Interestingly, I’m the opposite. I’m currently coming up the side of the hall which works for getting the ball down lane before breaking. It is not as natural of a release for me and it has less hook. Our top bowlers in my senior league (averaging over 200) tend to have a natural high tilt. Those with lower tilt seem to have more problems with over/under unless they have high ball speed. I guess I’ll just have to live with coming up the side.
Full Rollers generally have zero tilt. I am a Full Roller and have zero tilt. If you go to my channel and view "Full Roller Bowling Release 66, True Motion with Axis Weight Layout," you can see the marker on my PAP and watch the ball motion of a zero tilt ball.
Axis rotation allows the ball to dv8 from its original trajectory when it encounters friction. Axis Tilt mostly influences the ball's first transition. You can have no tilt and still create significant hook with axis rotation. I would argue that axis rotation is FAR more important for ball motion.
Think PDW. A lot of rotation with not much tilt. PAP somewhere in the very high 5’s with zero up or down. If you have tilt you need rotation to get the ball to recover. If you have rotation you don’t need tilt to get the ball to recover. PDW.
Tara Johnson It’s ball position. It’s the tilt or angle of the PAP (Positive Axis Point) when the ball contacts the lane. 0 degrees is straight level. 90 degrees is straight up.
I could listen to this man talk all day. R.I.P. Mo
I'm one video in and I already like this guy.
I'd been working on lowering my axis tilt and wondering why my stuff was burning up so hard in the early part of the lane. That explains it.
RIP Mo.
Always wondered how axis tilt correlated with layouts. Good to know when I think of pin to pap it’s not just a random guess, it’s based off your axis tilt.
Very good explanation of access tilt thank you very much MO !!!
AXIS
Thanks MO!! GREAT VIDS. GOT Ron at Merribowl in Livonia helping me with analysis, numbers lessons. In a few weeks we will start building my Arsenal with RADICAL!! CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT ILL BE THROWING!!!
Thanks Sir
It was/is a Joy to listen to Mo... When someone knows their "Field" their words have impact.
Moe did a seminar years ago at Bowling Academy in Rotterdam, New York. That is or was 5 min from my grandparents house. I think that is pretty cool. Nice little town. I also worked for AMF at Hanover lanes when he was with AMF.
What’s up Mopey!
Spin biscuits. Loved this man.
Thanks Mo! Great video on axis tilt... 👍🏽😊👌🏽
I track next to my thumb and use a rico layout on my main ball i use
Ty for the info you share
What would a 10 degree axis tilt and a 5 inch pin do over all on lane conditions in heavy oil.
What’s a good axis tilt for pin in (2”-1” from pap)?
Look at radical drill sheets: that dotted line is the general axis migration down the lane, beginning at PAP as thrown. So a short pin layout being small hook/control I would say mid to high tilt enjoys this. Low tilt players... check your track: might work, might not, staying off the thumbhole.
What about negative axis tilt?
Negative Axis tilt typically occurs when you release the ball too late. It used to plague me as a 2handed bowler, making my shots inconsistent.
Hi, Mo
For us normal league amatuers what are all the numbers you spew out? No one in thevideos i watch actually show a detail description of what they are doing and how to get these numbers. Numbers angles, numbers angles over and over, we are not all pros 🤨
"5 inches over by 7/8ths up". WTF is he talking about?
Devon Hackett
He’s referring to the bowler’s PAP or Positive Axis Point. The measurement is taken from the center of the bowlers grip to the point of axis spin at release. You can research more about bowling PAP for a clearer explanation and how to determine your PAP if you’re interested.
I have no problem determining PAP. I must have missed the part where he said anything about "center of grip" and there is still no reference point for the "7/8ths up". Thanks.
Devon Hackett
7/8” up is from a line drawn 90 degrees laterally from the grip center. Mine is 5 1/4” over, 3/8” up. A bowling quarter scale or pro sec helps with the measurements.
How is this bowler able to change his tilt? I have low tilt (0-4 degrees) and high rotation (75-80 degrees). I can easily change rotation from 0 to 80 but can’t change my tilt much. High rotation helps me get the ball down lane before hooking but I’d like a higher tilt so I can stay behind the ball without having it hook early and strong. Coming up the side seems to weaken the hook and the hit.
Practice at it.
Seek out a qualified coach that can help you "work the inside of the ball" and properly rotate around the side in order to increase your tilt and lower your track.
RadicalBowling
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I’ve received coaching from a USBC Silver and a Gold coach. 10 private lessons total. One said to come up the side and the other said to bend my wrist severely to the left, almost 90 degrees like Jakob Butturff uses, very awkward. Yet I see many senior bowlers with a very high tilt that don’t come up the side nor use that awful 90 degree wrist bend. I’m scratching my head with this higher tilt challenge.
@@Mote78 Tilt is very hard to change and is almost like a bowling fingerprint. Some say to wear a golf glove and enlarge your ring finger hole if necessary, so that you can start to feel the ring finger more on release. Some say to try and roll a backup ball which also focuses more on the ring finger. Personally, the only thing I haven't tried is the golf glove idea and I'm at the point where I am accepting my high tilt for what it is and will use other adjustments to compensate instead, as well as more surface and assym cores.
Joe HOENIG
So you have high tilt and want to lower it? Interestingly, I’m the opposite. I’m currently coming up the side of the hall which works for getting the ball down lane before breaking. It is not as natural of a release for me and it has less hook. Our top bowlers in my senior league (averaging over 200) tend to have a natural high tilt. Those with lower tilt seem to have more problems with over/under unless they have high ball speed. I guess I’ll just have to live with coming up the side.
What about Full Rollers?
Full Rollers generally have zero tilt.
I am a Full Roller and have zero tilt.
If you go to my channel and view "Full Roller Bowling Release 66, True Motion with Axis Weight Layout," you can see the marker on my PAP and watch the ball motion of a zero tilt ball.
nordattack I love your content btw
Thank you! Just keeping the Full Roller style alive.
My Zero Tilt Full Roller PAP is 6 3/16" right and 2 5/8" up
Does axis tilt or axis rotation have more impact on the motion?
Tilt have more influence than rotation! But both are important.
Axis rotation allows the ball to dv8 from its original trajectory when it encounters friction. Axis Tilt mostly influences the ball's first transition. You can have no tilt and still create significant hook with axis rotation. I would argue that axis rotation is FAR more important for ball motion.
Think PDW. A lot of rotation with not much tilt. PAP somewhere in the very high 5’s with zero up or down. If you have tilt you need rotation to get the ball to recover. If you have rotation you don’t need tilt to get the ball to recover. PDW.
Axis tilt is hand or ball position? I don't know the term.
Tara Johnson
It’s ball position.
It’s the tilt or angle of the PAP (Positive Axis Point) when the ball contacts the lane. 0 degrees is straight level. 90 degrees is straight up.