Thomas does not produce as many videos now that he’s got his own company but I am grateful he still post reviews once in a while. And when he does I realize how much I missed those reviews. Thanks Thomas!
I replaced all the caps and resistors in my Freya+ tube stage circuit with audiophile grade parts. I also put vents in the top of my Freya+ as it runs very hot. With NOS tubes in place.. oh baby…I am a happy boy! 😮
I used to have a Freya plus with the 6SN7s played through a pair of Vidars into K-horns. Sounded great. Sold it and later regretted it. Later got a new Freya + with the Noval tubes. It also sounds great and is very cheap to roll the tubes as I have a lot of that type. Unfortunately, Schiitt discontinued it after a very short run. I assume it was because 6SN7s become easier to get again.
Just upgrade to Ladder Bach with remote for $809 on black friday from Topping pre 90. You were being kind to the Topping pre 90 the ladder kills it in all aspects of SQ while also just sounding more musical and is about 4 times the size and weight all the while eliminating the uppermidrange shrillness of the topping that makes my B&Ws less fatigueing to listen to. The pre 90 feels like its trying to be high end-the Ladder Bach feels like you've arrived it must be the bargain of the year. I love Chifi -it makes high end affordable for the masses and destroying the myth promoted by the traditional high end companies that you have to pay a 4 figure sum to join the club. Thank you Thomas for your great reviews and introducing such interesting and affordable gear.
@nicktaylor7680 Hey. I have a Topping Pre90 and I like it alot. Rest of my gear leans towards smooth warm side. This Ladder Bach seems interesting tho. Do you think it's really that much better than the Topping?
Hi there, the short answer is yes. The Ladder is more musical-by that I mean music has more scale richness with a blacker background and, surprisingly, to me on the vertical axis (height) and depth (behind the speakers) . Pace and timing seems more accurate yet there seems more space and time? around instruments making them feel more fleshed out. Bass is more extended yet more defined. There is also a slight sweetness to the midrange and the top end while not rolled off, has a natural and easygoing presentation that works well with the metal dome treeters in my system. Another question you have to ask is if the Ladder Bach is a true high end component is the rest of your system going to be able to take advantage of this?
@@davey_blue2739 I have my today and I paring with Audio GD A1 amplifier (125 W/8 ohms) and Denafrips Ares II and the combination is fantastic. I order the remote control too. Comming from Rotel RC 1070 soundstage open in a fantastic way height is big and many details in the music that I didn't heard before. I have Buchardt S400 speakers that are a little dark for some taste but this pre amp really open highs and 3 D. Cheers.
A couple of years ago I purchased a consumer direct preamp and monoblocks. I thought it would be a massive step up in performant and quality from my trusty integrated amp. It wasn’t. Yes, it out performed my integrated, but not by the margin I was hoping for. Initially I was impressed by the new sound signature, but with the passage of time, I started to notice how ‘staccato’ the musical reproduction was. It lacked acoustic mass, tonal density. The dealer sent me an alternative preamp from another manufacturer. That transformed my system to a musical reproduction that reproduces music the way I like to hear it. A short while ago, one of those monoblocks died. Repairs aren’t quick with consumer direct gear. You need a technician to diagnose the fault, then wait for the replacement part/s to be sent out. In the interim I reinstalled my trusty integrated. That old sound signature I’d become accustomed to for many years was immediately identifiable and enjoyable. With the passage of time, the shortcomings of that integrated became noticeable. So yes, preamps can make a difference. Whether that difference is preferable, must come down to the individual taste of the end user. Most of all, enjoy the music.
Hey, Thomas! It's been a while since I commented on one of your videos. And, shameful to admit, also a while since I watched one. (Shame, shame!) But it's great to see that you haven't lost your touch! The R2R technology has certainly captured people's attention, and the idea of using that same technology in a preamp is intriguing. It definitely sounds like they may have offered the budget conscious another very good choice! Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who are stuck in their ways. Ever since I found my Musical Paradise MP-301 integrated tube amp and my MP-D1 tube dac, I just kind of settled down and started blowing my budget on tubes and more music instead! Which has led me to finally have to face the awful truth: "Oh, MY God! I'm NOT an audiophile! I'm ONLY a music lover! " Oh, the shame! I'll probably be banned from ever commenting on any audio website for life!! But in spite of all of that, every time I watch one of your videos I end up learning so much that is useful and that helps me to discover how to improve the little system I do have. You are one of the very few reviewers who understands and preaches the importance of system synergy, among many other important topics. Most reviewers give you the idea that as long as you seek out what they decide are the best in each category, you can throw any of these various pieces together and have a system that will blow you away. These people have most likely been very instrumental in ruining the hopes of many hifi seekers. Thank you for all that you do, and as long as you keep enjoying it, I will make more of an effort to keep watching! P.S.: don't forget. A true R2R system would not only also need an R2R amp, but also R2R interconnects and R2R speaker cables too! . . . . oh, and don't forget the R2R power supply, and the R2R speakers! . . . oh, and also the R2R recordings made with R2R microphones! WoW! . . . I think we're onto something!
Very cool unit and you sure do get a lot for your money! Great review Thomas. I’ve got an r26 now and am running dac only mode to an integrated amp, but may try a nice power amp only with the r26, sounds like it has a great preamp section from all accounts.
As usual taking into consideration your review I ordered this pre amp and sounded fantastic with a Audio Gd A1 amplifier and Denafrips DAC. More highs more details that I never heard with Rotel RC 1070 pre amp. Thank you for this great recommendations and Happy holidays. Yashin
I supercharged my Schiit Freya+ with $600 worth of oil-film caps and Audio Note resistors in the tube stage circuit. I even put some visually pleasing vents in the top of Freya to help with cooling. They look like intakes on a 70s muscle car. NOS tubes are a given. Fed by my Pontus II, I smile when listening at all times…and visually I think my Freya + is off the charts….no..I am not into that cheap Kinki-Studio 80s alarm clock look…and value smoothness over clarity…but it nice to know what's out there. 😀
I'm torn with going Freya+ or Ladder Bach. I do like characteristics tube pre can add, but the way Thomas described ladder Bach also sounds appealing....dilemma!
Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it. With your connection to Shenzhen Audio have you considered reviewing the Gustard P26 preamp? I'm interested in this unit but there is a lack of good reviews online.
I've owned the Gustard p26 for about 2 years now and I believe it is a very good preamp. It is neutral with a touch of grain but a very good sound stage. I also owned the topping Pre 90 but did not like the tonal characteristics and sound staging was just average. The gustard p26 is a better preamp then the topping to my ears. I have never heard the ladder bach but Thomas is description of it sound similar to the gustard preamp characteristics.
this looks exactly like a denafrips preamp just with a little different design Layout of the front and back is spot on identical I would not be surprised if denafrips is the OEM of this product
Personally, I could not live without a pre amp and to my ears, a good one always adds meat to the bone. I’ve owned (and sold) a Freya Plus and agree totally with Thomas’ comments. Best fun I’ve had lately is building and listening to my SunValley 1616 Pre. Tube rollers delight with high level performance at kit set prices. Sorry Thomas, no remote so you’ll have to get your butt off the sofa to change the input or volume 😂
I was running the Freya+ with 2 vidars driving the elac unifi 2.0 and thought it was fantastic. I retired my trusted old NAD C162 pre and C272 power mini blocks. Recently I bought the KEF R3Metas. I had to revert to my trusted NADs because the Schitt gear just did not give me the soundstage, air between instruments and smoothness the NADs are giving. Tubes make it a bit smooth, but the air between instruments and depth width of soundstage with the NADs is much superior. From the permutations I was able to do for comparisons, the limitation seems to be with the Freya+ compared to the NAD C162.
I'm running a topping e70 velvet direct to a parasound a21. I feel there's a thinness to the sound, and I'm looking at preamp options now.Thanx for the information.
It's definitely the Topping - as they're known to be excellent measuring components, while leaving much to be desired from a SQ standpoint (ie: sometimes bright, sterile, lacking depth, naturalness, decay, and harmonics, etc).
I don't envy people trying to make these purchase decisions. Thank heavens for Thomas giving some info to narrow the search. It seems to be a great time to be a budget audiophile as switching power supplies are pretty good resulting in lots of reasonable choices.
The best preamps use switched resistors and a volume decoder, not a potentiometer. They very often but not always add 3-15 db of gain to help the SNR at low volumes. Some stuff will sound weak without a preamp of some sort, as they may not be driving the power amp sufficiently well as a typical 47k output impedance is not good for driving longer interconnects, very often a preamp will have a low (75 ohms or less) to attenuate noise ingress.
Good to see more videos by you, enjoyed the review and the info is an asset. Lol 😂by the way it’s good to know they do have a remote to work the unit , just takes a little grumbling and hollering
I own the schiit preamp and Sold it, Upgraded the tubes and High frequencies just were not realistic at all The mid range was fantastic I Now use the Gustand A22 as A DAC and preamp and I love it. The only preamp I will I've ever Own will have tubes
I could not get rid of my schiit fast enough too. After research they do not even have the equipment to provide the measurements they claim. They are using circuitry simulation to generate their stats. And their THD is not even REMOTELY close to the spec sheet. It did not end pretty when they got it back. lol Simulation is only good if the components are flawless and imaginary. But each capacitor and diod introduces things that change that. They did not like the logic and tried to charge me a 15% restocking fee only 5 days into their satisfaction guarentee
Im going through the preamp thing ATM. I've got a Supratek Cortez (MC phono/ pre) and the linestage in it sounds amazing. But I live in QLD, Australia (hot in summer, warm in winter) and have valve power amps and MM phonos. Seriously thinking about a pre with less 'tubes' for summer, but it's a heard act to beat and I'm working class. Interesting presention- thanks.
Hi Thomas & friends Just wanted to share one thing. Make sure you & your audiophile friends go outside this summer. I’m in Calgary AB Canada with my Aussie Shepherd Rhett who’s sleeping to Fleetwood Mac Silver Spring Beautiful evening Not the best blue tooth speaker with my iPhone. Poor soundstage. The garden smells & fresh air are something you don’t get in the basement Just fantastic! Mike What is your signature song? I love it?
I still use a pre-amp. I need remote volume control, remote switching is not important. Currently a Topping Pre-90 in my second system, and a Parasound JC2 in the main system. Both are dead quiet. Also have an old APT Holman pre-amp in reserve. Probably need re-capped, but no need to spend the $s with the other stuff working.
I always enjoy your reviews Thomas. My Gustard R26 is connected to a JBL Synthesis ht based processor with Dirac Live built in. I know that room correction is controversial but I like what it does in my room, especially in the soundstage.
The only reason to my knowledge of how a pre-amp could be known as having a 'Ladder' is in the vollume control being a stepped ladder of resistors where your choosen vollume is of a certain resistance from the vol' knob switching in 1 resistor per channel of same value at a time for any given vollume position instead of a less accurate (esp' at low voll') double-ganged variable resistance track & wipers, as in cheaper standard vollume pots. Stepped resistor vollume pots have been around for 100+ years but usually have not enough steps imo, I've a valve pre' that has 21 discreet resistor steps behind it's rotary switching vol' knob & I hated it with a passion & bought & soldered in a 32 position resistor vol' pot but that was also nowhere near enough, either too loud or too quiet between 1 click, you need at very, very least 64 or better, a 100 discreet resistor steps for precise volume control. The only other type of vollume control I've met is the large transformer type which can also have gain without power by virtue of it's secondary winding ratio to the primary's signal input winding, they are very expensive & sounded superb tho not a resistor ladder But I'm old school knowledge wise, I can repair class A / AB amps but I know diddly squat about class D or any other vollume pot other than those I've described where a stepped resistor ladder is used. I just cannot see how else a 'ladder' can be used in a pre-amp, passive or active, unless it's a ladder of switchable transistors of different value & gain ???
@@miloprager Seems so, the word "Ladder" is maybe just their marketing dept's decision & nothing to do with the pre-amp's design or designer. High quality pre-amps never used to brag about having a resistor ladder (or cluster) volume control, instead of the old "carbon track & wiper pots, it's just an automatic thing to do for a step'up in sound output quality & your 2 channels being of accurate output level esp' at low volume where those cheap "track & wiper pots" can develop "imballance issues" or crackle sounds. Dragging a wiper along a circular track which Increases (Ed' pedantic me) in resistance the louder you go, does seem archaic but theyre dirt cheap, seen everywhere still & 0.1% (or 0.01%?) accurate resistor pairs in a circle or linear laadder is deff' the way to go, personally, i'd prefer not to have the buzz-word "Ladder" festooned on my pre'amp, to know its there would be ample & enough for me.
@miloprager That's a telling story, i agree. Yes, it often gets very silly & mostly meant to impress those who do not know better & why should they need to know better! when they pay good money to those who should & do know better. It just so happened that electronics (& physics) was my hobby & focus of interest & electronics was my natural choice for the working future but architects, tailors, mechanics or whoever, deserves to be 'advertised' to in plain speaking, not have buzz words thrown at them. Engineers & Marketing Dept' folk live in different worlds, it seems.
R2R volume control seems to be the better way, becaues it is not mechanical, does not make any clicking sound, more refine steps and the most importantly it is sonically more transparent. If you like tube sound, I'm sure it can be an R2R Ladder volume control can be incorporated into a tube design too. Personally, even though I only have one source and, the DAC does have its own very sophisticated analog/digital volume control system I found adding a preamp is invaluble to improving the sound quality in the same ways you mentioned in your above video.🤩🤩🤩 Especially if it has variable gain to accomodate different levels from recordings and/ or speaker sensitivity matching... A remote control is of course a very nice function to have, but since my preamp is actually a headphone amp it doesn't have a remote Thomas, thank you for your videos and, thank you for showing us such an interesting and eclectic mix of new techs and brands in HiFi👍👍👍
Did you ever find out what "magic" 6SN7 GTB tubes Mr. Kanta used in the Freya+? I'm just trying to elevate the performance of this pre-amp. Thanks again for a great channel!!!
Changing preamps has given the biggest changes in sound after speakers. I went from a Rotel 1580 to a Hegel P20 and now am using a Hegel P30. The improvement in sound with each change in preamp was not subtle to my ears.
Problem I have with so many pre amps is lack of inputs. I want a new one but it seems you only get a few inputs max. I want tone controls and balance knobs also. Rca and balanced inputs and outputs. Bass management with a couple sub outs. Maybe even some tubes. I'm running a older B&K PT3 pre amp and it has lots of options. Missing bass management though and is getting pretty old.
great review as always but im finally happy with my Promitheus TVC transformer passive line stage with Mark Audio Pensil fullrange DIY towers and triapth ta2022 DIY power amp, topping dac and everything interconnected with Canare RCA and wired with Sommer Elephant 440 speaker cable 👍👍👍👍
Looks very similar if not identical to denafrips hestia and musician monoceros - be interesting to compare innards - pics of all three don't seem to be available. the r2r i would think refers to the resistor ladder/relay for the attenuation section - pretty common now. the topping is problematic for matching due to a very low input impedance - e.g. not suited to denafrips dacs. can't find these specs for the bach...
The only preamp I ever had was a tube Audible Illusions 2c with dual volume controls and you’re complaining about no remote, haha. Talk about coloring the sound but in a good way. I still have it stored away.
Thx Mr T. This looks like a Denafrips Hestia....are they the same in different cases?? Very interested, however: WHY can't a microprocessor controlled volume control be setup with a BALANCE CONTROL feature?? Those of us with asymmetric hearing or room layouts are waiting for this feature! Maybe add the BALANCE CONTROL feature to the $50 remote control option? 🎵🎶🎶😮🎶🎵
I love the form factor ..like the “KINKI” line of electronics…big display , clean lines Also the inputs are pretty decent.. tho I would prefer 2 XLR inputs and 3 single ended …but that’s just me . Also , ability to change the display input identity..cd , streamer , phono ..etc Also the ability to run headphones out of the XLR in the back ..like the Halo May Preamp…..just say’n. Great and fun review ☕️🍕👍
Thomas thank you for this review and question. The reasons for me that one should not buy an integrated setup is the trade off of quality and the fact if something goes kaduk the whole gear is not operational any more. Also upgrading is (mostly) out of the question and/or using another brand for a specific function (another dac or streamer in the dac/streamer combo for example) is impossible. Enjoying audio is also the opportunity to have the best of different worlds, to create and hear the combined solution at a certain time and having the abilty to quest for improvement. With an integrated setup your stuck.
I have a better idea for a remote...a Clapper. Clap your hands once to decrease volume, twice to increase, three times to turn off/on. Still trying to solve the problem of audience clapping in records though. :-)
I have a Holo Spring 3 kte w/ internal pre amp. I want to upgrade to a Holo May Kte that requires a external preamp. I have to do this in steps. First the preamp (Schiit Freya?) . I would use it in conjunction with the internal preamp in the Holo Spring. Holo Audio told me the default pass through is to set the volume to 94 on the Holo preamp. Having not tried this, I’m hoping you could shed some light on this set up Thanks, mike
What is or was your favorite pre-amp? Why? Non-affiliated link: shenzhenaudio.com/products/ladder-bach-fully-balanced-hifi-preamplifier-r-2r-structure-stable-output-amplifier
Interesting. Got the Freya +(it was pain in the ass to get one i Europe) and The Ladder Schuman dac, wich is very impressive to say the least, choosed it from many other options inculding Gustards R26 and A26, Denafrips Ares 12th. As im bulding a second system im searching for a preamplifier again...to go with a pair Schiit Gjallarhorns. I wanted some tube flavor, but getting a second Freya+ sounds ridicolous. The last candidate would be the Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2, but maybe skipping the tubes would be an option. Still great rewiev informative and entertaining :)
@@soberelvis4954 in my experience the mid to late 40s Kenrads (offset plates) have the widest soundstage. I have probably 10-12 pairs of Syls. The three rivet (or “hole”) T plates really are superior. And the tall bottles are the best of the best. If you have subs in your system the 2 rivet plates are good too. The angled plate Syls from the 50s and 60s are just okay. The gray glass RCAs from the 40s and early 50s are unbelievably musical and fun. The wartime tung sol is good but not worth 5x more. Same for the Russian OTKs. New production the Shuguang CV181T is incredible. Good at everything. Maybe even a little too good sometimes. With an adapter you can try 12au7. That opens up all the European manufacturers. Telefunkens live up to the hype for sure. All the Philips tubes are excellent and yet distinctly different from each other. Amperex Holland being sweet, Mullard Blackburn being engaging, and Siemens Germany being resolving. For soundstage spend the money on “selected” tubes for medical or aviation. The blacker the background the more mind blowing the image and space.
Very similar to Denafrips' Hestia and Hades models. Denafrips also made a remote for them at an additional cost. I assume they are designed and manufactured using a cookie-cutter approach in China. I'm just curious how they compare.
What is the relationship between Ladder, Denafrips, and Musician Audio? This Bach looks just like the Denafrips Hestia and the Musician Audio Monoceros.
To make the Freya + better, I read you can easily upgrade the connection terminals. I wonder by making this simple upgrade, the Freya would sound better once again?
I have a Musical Paradise MP 701. Beside tube rolling you can also change capacitors. This is confusing for me. There are many brands of capacitors and many model lines at different prices and if that was not confusing enough you can also change UF values. This means the number of variations could be in the thousands or more, Plus this can be expensive. So I took a chance and ordered from China capacitors with the largest UF value recommended also 1000V. These took a long time to break in. My system is on 15 hours per day and I think it took months for these to come into their own. My intention was to see if the higher UF made a difference and if so upgrade to a name brand later. Yes there is a difference. There is more punch. I had a drum set when I was a child so I know the sound well and now my system plays drums and cymbals like never before. Music I know from the 70's and 80's sounds so much better to the point it sounds different. There is still more potential to improve as the rectifier tube could be changed or upgraded to something "Cave Man" has but that would add $1000+. For now I am happy with what I have. Thanks for your videos I know you do this for love not money.
Eric's Hifi Blog review of the MF 701mk2 has a link to the V-cap web page with cap uf value calculator. My Bryston needed 2.2uf Sch**t amps need 4.7uf Bass roll off is affected by values, but there is a science to it;-) The MF is a terrific preamp! Comparing right now to the Denafrips Hestia. Exactly as Thomas describes here.
@@User_not_found_403 Thanks for asking. I'm definitely keeping both. The Hestia12th is nice and transparent, tonally natural with little of it's own "character" imposed on the music. It's not clinical. But it's unity (zero) gain... And of course it's fully balanced, which I wanted to connect my Ares12th to Bryston amp. I can leave them on all day without worrying about tube lifespan! Honestly I could happily live with the Hestia. BUT: The MP701mk2 is super special. (It's not balanced like Freya) You get a trippy holophonic, deep soundstage and the ability to tweak the sound by tube and cap rolling. The v-cap ODAM upgrade option is very good and close to Hestia transparency plus the soundstage enhancement. This month I'm using Mundorf SGO Evo supreme caps for enhanced tonal saturation... If you like to experiment it's good to have a reference point. Currently using a 5u4g rectifier, a 6sn7 and a pair of 6922s. Did that help? What amp & speakers will you be using it with? Do you need balanced topology with XLR cables? If not, half of the Freya/Ladder is wasted! The MP also has gain switching which is useful when using higher gain tubes. So flexible...but a money pit if you get obsessed with possible upgrades. Discard the supplied tubes quickly, then take it easy. There's good guidance on tube choices in the manual. Enjoy the musical journey 🎶😀🎶
Great review. I currently have an Audio GD Master 19. While i can't compare to the Ladder Bach, I Iike it better than the Musician Monoceros, which supposed to be similar ro the Bach. The Monoceros has a bump in the base though which I did not apprechiate. The Bach apparently does not bump up the base according to Thomas, so maybe Musician and Ladder pres are not the same after all. Thomas, how do you like R26 compared to the Ladder Schuhman? Both DACs have a good reputation and similar cost.
Maybe an unfair comparison but how would the Bach compare to the Hegel P30? I remember the freya+ was described as 85% of P30. Imagine this one might be a step closer. Best regards!
Thomas im considering this preamp ladder bach and the topping pre90, mi principal source are tutntable and my speakers are wharfedale linton, my amp a nad c268... Wich one woukd you recomend
R26 has volume control. So does my old AH20, but that sounds bad/thin without a pre. Reveiwers say the R26 and other DACs sound better with a proper pre
Another great review, thank you Thomas. No remote however has been a deal breaker for a decade. Trying to listen to a streaming playlist of different music would be akin to an aerobic workout for "relaxation." I'm losing my loyalty to Schiit very rapidly however. The snake oil has become obvious with the unproven boutique designs with the accompanying superfluous fluff designations. It's a volume control like every other audio product for the last century, get over yourselves.
I would pick the Freya+ over the Bach. You get one four listening modes and the flexibility of tube rolling plus five year warranty. Not to mention, the Ladder Bach Preamp doesn't even come with a remote by default. That's a hard pass for me.
@@ThomasAndStereo thank you Thomas, i am about to order Klipsch 600M v1 and i was also wondering if you'd tried them with the r300... v2 is quite a bit more money and apparently sounds different and i don't plan to DSP, stick to the v1? thoughts? thank you, i love your channel ❤️
Interesting preamp but one concern. I'd like to see 4 or 5 inputs and it would be nice if all inputs could take RCA or balanced inputs. This takes more real estate to a bigger box is needed so compact units need not apply. My system has the Rogue RP5 which does not have balanced ins or outs (the later RP-7 does and had it been available I probably would have sprung for it). The RPO-5 has 5 single ended inputs and one of them is a switcable (line level, MM or NC) input. The phone input has selectable gain and loading options and that allows the user a lot of choice. I have poor euesight and the rogue control layout is great for those of us who appreciate being able to tell what the preamp is setup for at a glance. The one caveat is it's size, it's bigger thgan most components but the build quality is very good and it's very easy on the ears - even has a very good dedicated headphone output. It costs more than eithof your kighlighted products but IMHO it's worth it because of the usability..
If you have equipment ... Of course you need a pre amp ? Tape monitor ? You don't record ? Phono stage ? You don't own a turntable ? You don't play with your equipment ? There was once a time when people played with their equipment ? raising cables off the floor doesn't count !
But you haven't really answered your own - and still my - question: why would I spend $1K for this thing. I think I know what a DAC does. It changes the digital signal to analog. We need an external one because the ones in our source devices are inferior. OK I can accept that. The amplifier brings power to that signal to push air pressure and the signal into speakers or headphones. The speakers and headphones are the things that turn those signals into actual sound waves that enter our ears. More or less that's what happens, I think. And I can get my head around all that. BUT if my amplifier or my DAC has a volume control--and nowadays you would have to try hard to build a system where at least one of those did NOT have a volume control--then what the hekity heck does a darn pre-amp actually DO.....for a thousand dollars??? and btw, even if my DAC or amplifier doesn't have a volume control, my source device (i.e. my computer) does anyway. I mean a thousand shmackers can buy me a heckuva lotta....really pleasant experiences and I don't wanna throw give up those experiences for just a heckuva lotta empty promises.
The reason I quickly touched on at the end of the video is because of the possible impedence mismatch between your source and power amp. Just google it as it is a subject discussed frequently.
Thomas does not produce as many videos now that he’s got his own company but I am grateful he still post reviews once in a while. And when he does I realize how much I missed those reviews. Thanks Thomas!
Here here
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@@ThomasAndStereo Are you selling enough of your Galion amps such that it's a sustainable endeavor?
I replaced all the caps and resistors in my Freya+ tube stage circuit with audiophile grade parts. I also put vents in the top of my Freya+ as it runs very hot. With NOS tubes in place.. oh baby…I am a happy boy! 😮
I used to have a Freya plus with the 6SN7s played through a pair of Vidars into K-horns. Sounded great. Sold it and later regretted it. Later got a new Freya + with the Noval tubes. It also sounds great and is very cheap to roll the tubes as I have a lot of that type. Unfortunately, Schiitt discontinued it after a very short run. I assume it was because 6SN7s become easier to get again.
Just upgrade to Ladder Bach with remote for $809 on black friday from Topping pre 90. You were being kind to the Topping pre 90 the ladder kills it in all aspects of SQ while also just sounding more musical and is about 4 times the size and weight all the while eliminating the uppermidrange shrillness of the topping that makes my B&Ws less fatigueing to listen to.
The pre 90 feels like its trying to be high end-the Ladder Bach feels like you've arrived it must be the bargain of the year.
I love Chifi -it makes high end affordable for the masses and destroying the myth promoted by the traditional high end companies that you have to pay a 4 figure sum to join the club.
Thank you Thomas for your great reviews and introducing such interesting and affordable gear.
If you prefer a smoother presentation, the Bach is a no brainer. Really solid built.
@nicktaylor7680
Hey. I have a Topping Pre90 and I like it alot. Rest of my gear leans towards smooth warm side. This Ladder Bach seems interesting tho. Do you think it's really that much better than the Topping?
Hi there, the short answer is yes.
The Ladder is more musical-by that I mean music has more scale richness with a blacker background and, surprisingly, to me on the vertical axis (height) and depth (behind the speakers) . Pace and timing seems more accurate yet there seems more space and time? around instruments making them feel more fleshed out.
Bass is more extended yet more defined. There is also a slight sweetness to the midrange and the top end while not rolled off, has a natural and easygoing presentation that works well with the metal dome treeters in my system.
Another question you have to ask is if the Ladder Bach is a true high end component is the rest of your system going to be able to take advantage of this?
@@nicktaylor7680 hmm ok thanks for replying. I would be pairing it with Denafrips Hyperion power amp and Harbeth P3esr.
@@davey_blue2739 I have my today and I paring with Audio GD A1 amplifier (125 W/8 ohms) and Denafrips Ares II and the combination is fantastic. I order the remote control too. Comming from Rotel RC 1070 soundstage open in a fantastic way height is big and many details in the music that I didn't heard before. I have Buchardt S400 speakers that are a little dark for some taste but this pre amp really open highs and 3 D. Cheers.
A couple of years ago I purchased a consumer direct preamp and monoblocks. I thought it would be a massive step up in performant and quality from my trusty integrated amp. It wasn’t. Yes, it out performed my integrated, but not by the margin I was hoping for.
Initially I was impressed by the new sound signature, but with the passage of time, I started to notice how ‘staccato’ the musical reproduction was. It lacked acoustic mass, tonal density. The dealer sent me an alternative preamp from another manufacturer. That transformed my system to a musical reproduction that reproduces music the way I like to hear it.
A short while ago, one of those monoblocks died. Repairs aren’t quick with consumer direct gear. You need a technician to diagnose the fault, then wait for the replacement part/s to be sent out. In the interim I reinstalled my trusty integrated. That old sound signature I’d become accustomed to for many years was immediately identifiable and enjoyable. With the passage of time, the shortcomings of that integrated became noticeable.
So yes, preamps can make a difference. Whether that difference is preferable, must come down to the individual taste of the end user.
Most of all, enjoy the music.
Yup, someone even told me once the heart of a system is the preamp.
It came from the 90s. 🐸
Hey, Thomas!
It's been a while since I commented on one of your videos. And, shameful to admit, also a while since I watched one.
(Shame, shame!)
But it's great to see that you haven't lost your touch!
The R2R technology has certainly captured people's attention, and the idea of using that same technology in a preamp is intriguing.
It definitely sounds like they may have offered the budget conscious another very good choice!
Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who are stuck in their ways. Ever since I found my Musical Paradise MP-301 integrated tube amp and my MP-D1 tube dac, I just kind of settled down and started blowing my budget on tubes and more music instead!
Which has led me to finally have to face the awful truth: "Oh, MY God! I'm NOT an audiophile! I'm ONLY a music lover! "
Oh, the shame! I'll probably be banned from ever commenting on any audio website for life!!
But in spite of all of that, every time I watch one of your videos I end up learning so much that is useful and that helps me to discover how to improve the little system I do have.
You are one of the very few reviewers who understands and preaches the importance of system synergy, among many other important topics. Most reviewers give you the idea that as long as you seek out what they decide are the best in each category, you can throw any of these various pieces together and have a system that will blow you away.
These people have most likely been very instrumental in ruining the hopes of many hifi seekers.
Thank you for all that you do, and as long as you keep enjoying it, I will make more of an effort to keep watching!
P.S.: don't forget. A true R2R system would not only also need an R2R amp, but also R2R interconnects and R2R speaker cables too!
. . . . oh, and don't forget the R2R power supply, and the R2R speakers!
. . . oh, and also the R2R recordings made with R2R microphones!
WoW! . . . I think we're onto something!
Miss you so freaking much Thomas!!
Very cool unit and you sure do get a lot for your money! Great review Thomas.
I’ve got an r26 now and am running dac only mode to an integrated amp, but may try a nice power amp only with the r26, sounds like it has a great preamp section from all accounts.
As usual taking into consideration your review I ordered this pre amp and sounded fantastic with a Audio Gd A1 amplifier and Denafrips DAC. More highs more details that I never heard with Rotel RC 1070 pre amp. Thank you for this great recommendations and Happy holidays. Yashin
Do you still like your ladder bach preamp?
Thomas always enjoy your straight forward reviews !
Always vote for DAC + Preamp. Thanks for a great vid. 😊
I bought this preamp after watching a few reviews about it, and I absolutely love it after listening solid three weeks.
Great to hear!
Thank you, I bought it based on your review
Good to see you back Thomas ...
It has been a while.
happy using my Billie integrated as a preamp (latest model)
How does it sound? What power amp do u pair it with? Thanks!
I supercharged my Schiit Freya+ with $600 worth of oil-film caps and Audio Note resistors in the tube stage circuit. I even put some visually pleasing vents in the top of Freya to help with cooling. They look like intakes on a 70s muscle car. NOS tubes are a given. Fed by my Pontus II, I smile when listening at all times…and visually I think my Freya + is off the charts….no..I am not into that cheap Kinki-Studio 80s alarm clock look…and value smoothness over clarity…but it nice to know what's out there. 😀
I'm torn with going Freya+ or Ladder Bach. I do like characteristics tube pre can add, but the way Thomas described ladder Bach also sounds appealing....dilemma!
Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it. With your connection to Shenzhen Audio have you considered reviewing the Gustard P26 preamp? I'm interested in this unit but there is a lack of good reviews online.
I am also seeking gustard p26 review. I really like the looks of the p26. Shame there's no reviews
I've owned the Gustard p26 for about 2 years now and I believe it is a very good preamp. It is neutral with a touch of grain but a very good sound stage. I also owned the topping Pre 90 but did not like the tonal characteristics and sound staging was just average. The gustard p26 is a better preamp then the topping to my ears. I have never heard the ladder bach but Thomas is description of it sound similar to the gustard preamp characteristics.
Hey Thomas Long time no hear...here... Good to to know you're still reviewing...🎉
used a pot-in-a-box for ages in the past - the high input impedance of my ncores are a big advantage here.
this looks exactly like a denafrips preamp just with a little different design
Layout of the front and back is spot on identical
I would not be surprised if denafrips is the OEM of this product
I like my Rotel RC-1570 because it sounds great, but I’m in the market again because I want 2.1 bass management in the analog domain
Personally, I could not live without a pre amp and to my ears, a good one always adds meat to the bone. I’ve owned (and sold) a Freya Plus and agree totally with Thomas’ comments. Best fun I’ve had lately is building and listening to my SunValley 1616 Pre. Tube rollers delight with high level performance at kit set prices. Sorry Thomas, no remote so you’ll have to get your butt off the sofa to change the input or volume 😂
Good seeing a Thomas review again seems like it’s been awhile since TH-cam algo provided an update from the channel
More to come!
I was running the Freya+ with 2 vidars driving the elac unifi 2.0 and thought it was fantastic. I retired my trusted old NAD C162 pre and C272 power mini blocks. Recently I bought the KEF R3Metas. I had to revert to my trusted NADs because the Schitt gear just did not give me the soundstage, air between instruments and smoothness the NADs are giving. Tubes make it a bit smooth, but the air between instruments and depth width of soundstage with the NADs is much superior. From the permutations I was able to do for comparisons, the limitation seems to be with the Freya+ compared to the NAD C162.
I'm running a topping e70 velvet direct to a parasound a21. I feel there's a thinness to the sound, and I'm looking at preamp options now.Thanx for the information.
It's definitely the Topping - as they're known to be excellent measuring components, while leaving much to be desired from a SQ standpoint (ie: sometimes bright, sterile, lacking depth, naturalness, decay, and harmonics, etc).
I don't envy people trying to make these purchase decisions. Thank heavens for Thomas giving some info to narrow the search.
It seems to be a great time to be a budget audiophile as switching power supplies are pretty good resulting in lots of reasonable choices.
The best preamps use switched resistors and a volume decoder, not a potentiometer. They very often but not always add 3-15 db of gain to help the SNR at low volumes. Some stuff will sound weak without a preamp of some sort, as they may not be driving the power amp sufficiently well as a typical 47k output impedance is not good for driving longer interconnects, very often a preamp will have a low (75 ohms or less) to attenuate noise ingress.
With the r26 a pre amp is not needed. Great pre with an amazing dac. Running it with PS Audio BHK 250 to Wilson Sabrina's and it's just sublime.
Good to see more videos by you, enjoyed the review and the info is an asset. Lol 😂by the way it’s good to know they do have a remote to work the unit , just takes a little grumbling and hollering
I own the schiit preamp and Sold it, Upgraded the tubes and High frequencies just were not realistic at all The mid range was fantastic I Now use the Gustand A22 as A DAC and preamp and I love it. The only preamp I will I've ever Own will have tubes
I could not get rid of my schiit fast enough too. After research they do not even have the equipment to provide the measurements they claim. They are using circuitry simulation to generate their stats. And their THD is not even REMOTELY close to the spec sheet. It did not end pretty when they got it back. lol Simulation is only good if the components are flawless and imaginary. But each capacitor and diod introduces things that change that. They did not like the logic and tried to charge me a 15% restocking fee only 5 days into their satisfaction guarentee
Measurements...sigh
Thomas, you are a funny guy, love the way you do the product presentation.
Glad you enjoy it!
Im going through the preamp thing ATM. I've got a Supratek Cortez (MC phono/ pre) and the linestage in it sounds amazing. But I live in QLD, Australia (hot in summer, warm in winter) and have valve power amps and MM phonos. Seriously thinking about a pre with less 'tubes' for summer, but it's a heard act to beat and I'm working class. Interesting presention- thanks.
Hi Thomas & friends
Just wanted to share one thing.
Make sure you & your audiophile friends go outside this summer.
I’m in Calgary AB Canada with my Aussie Shepherd Rhett who’s sleeping to Fleetwood Mac Silver Spring
Beautiful evening
Not the best blue tooth speaker with my iPhone. Poor soundstage.
The garden smells & fresh air are something you don’t get in the basement
Just fantastic!
Mike
What is your signature song? I love it?
I still use a pre-amp. I need remote volume control, remote switching is not important. Currently a Topping Pre-90 in my second system, and a Parasound JC2 in the main system. Both are dead quiet.
Also have an old APT Holman pre-amp in reserve. Probably need re-capped, but no need to spend the $s with the other stuff working.
A very good review thank you. It was really informative. Thanks man.
My pleasure!
Hi Thomas, really enjoyed the video! Great looking product with a great looking price tag.
I always enjoy your reviews Thomas. My Gustard R26 is connected to a JBL Synthesis ht based processor with Dirac Live built in. I know that room correction is controversial but I like what it does in my room, especially in the soundstage.
The only reason to my knowledge of how a pre-amp could be known as having a 'Ladder' is in the vollume control being a stepped ladder of resistors where your choosen vollume is of a certain resistance from the vol' knob switching in 1 resistor per channel of same value at a time for any given vollume position instead of a less accurate (esp' at low voll') double-ganged variable resistance track & wipers, as in cheaper standard vollume pots. Stepped resistor vollume pots have been around for 100+ years but usually have not enough steps imo, I've a valve pre' that has 21 discreet resistor steps behind it's rotary switching vol' knob & I hated it with a passion & bought & soldered in a 32 position resistor vol' pot but that was also nowhere near enough, either too loud or too quiet between 1 click, you need at very, very least 64 or better, a 100 discreet resistor steps for precise volume control. The only other type of vollume control I've met is the large transformer type which can also have gain without power by virtue of it's secondary winding ratio to the primary's signal input winding, they are very expensive & sounded superb tho not a resistor ladder But I'm old school knowledge wise, I can repair class A / AB amps but I know diddly squat about class D or any other vollume pot other than those I've described where a stepped resistor ladder is used. I just cannot see how else a 'ladder' can be used in a pre-amp, passive or active, unless it's a ladder of switchable transistors of different value & gain ???
@@miloprager Seems so, the word "Ladder" is maybe just their marketing dept's decision & nothing to do with the pre-amp's design or designer.
High quality pre-amps never used to brag about having a resistor ladder (or cluster) volume control, instead of the old "carbon track & wiper pots, it's just an automatic thing to do for a step'up in sound output quality & your 2 channels being of accurate output level esp' at low volume where those cheap "track & wiper pots" can develop "imballance issues" or crackle sounds. Dragging a wiper along a circular track which Increases (Ed' pedantic me) in resistance the louder you go, does seem archaic but theyre dirt cheap, seen everywhere still & 0.1% (or 0.01%?) accurate resistor pairs in a circle or linear laadder is deff' the way to go, personally, i'd prefer not to have the buzz-word "Ladder" festooned on my pre'amp, to know its there would be ample & enough for me.
@miloprager That's a telling story, i agree. Yes, it often gets very silly & mostly meant to impress those who do not know better & why should they need to know better! when they pay good money to those who should & do know better.
It just so happened that electronics (& physics) was my hobby & focus of interest & electronics was my natural choice for the working future but architects, tailors, mechanics or whoever, deserves to be 'advertised' to in plain speaking, not have buzz words thrown at them. Engineers & Marketing Dept' folk live in different worlds, it seems.
R2R volume control seems to be the better way, becaues it is not mechanical, does not make any clicking sound, more refine steps and the most importantly it is sonically more transparent. If you like tube sound, I'm sure it can be an R2R Ladder volume control can be incorporated into a tube design too. Personally, even though I only have one source and, the DAC does have its own very sophisticated analog/digital volume control system I found adding a preamp is invaluble to improving the sound quality in the same ways you mentioned in your above video.🤩🤩🤩 Especially if it has variable gain to accomodate different levels from recordings and/ or speaker sensitivity matching...
A remote control is of course a very nice function to have, but since my preamp is actually a headphone amp it doesn't have a remote Thomas, thank you for your videos and, thank you for showing us such an interesting and eclectic mix of new techs and brands in HiFi👍👍👍
This looks exactly like my Denafrips Hestia Pre-amp, right down to the remote! Are they the same as the Ladder?
Did you ever find out what "magic" 6SN7 GTB tubes Mr. Kanta used in the Freya+? I'm just trying to elevate the performance of this pre-amp. Thanks again for a great channel!!!
Changing preamps has given the biggest changes in sound after speakers. I went from a Rotel 1580 to a Hegel P20 and now am using a Hegel P30. The improvement in sound with each change in preamp was not subtle to my ears.
How would you describe it?
Problem I have with so many pre amps is lack of inputs. I want a new one but it seems you only get a few inputs max. I want tone controls and balance knobs also.
Rca and balanced inputs and outputs.
Bass management with a couple sub outs.
Maybe even some tubes.
I'm running a older B&K PT3 pre amp and it has lots of options. Missing bass management though and is getting pretty old.
Great video, so good and informative.
great review as always but im finally happy with my Promitheus TVC transformer passive line stage with Mark Audio Pensil fullrange DIY towers and triapth ta2022 DIY power amp, topping dac and everything interconnected with Canare RCA and wired with Sommer Elephant 440 speaker cable 👍👍👍👍
Looks very similar if not identical to denafrips hestia and musician monoceros - be interesting to compare innards - pics of all three don't seem to be available. the r2r i would think refers to the resistor ladder/relay for the attenuation section - pretty common now. the topping is problematic for matching due to a very low input impedance - e.g. not suited to denafrips dacs. can't find these specs for the bach...
Yup. I am very curious.
This IS the very same cheap chinese, delivered by spy balloon, rip-off preamp as the denafrips hestia and musician monoceros.
The only preamp I ever had was a tube Audible Illusions 2c with dual volume controls and you’re complaining about no remote, haha. Talk about coloring the sound but in a good way. I still have it stored away.
Great job Thomas!
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi Thomas. What about the Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2. I thought it was the real Freya's contender.
The next real contender will be Gallions new tube pre amp (hopefully).
It can be...wait for my review.
It's also very important to get the correct cable between the pre and the power. Its really important
Thx Mr T.
This looks like a Denafrips Hestia....are they the same in different cases??
Very interested, however:
WHY can't a microprocessor controlled volume control be setup with a BALANCE CONTROL feature??
Those of us with asymmetric hearing or room layouts are waiting for this feature!
Maybe add the BALANCE CONTROL feature to the $50 remote control option?
🎵🎶🎶😮🎶🎵
I opted for the Denafrips Hestia12th.
Better warranty and support.
Nice compliment to my Musical💜 Paradise MP702mk2.
I love the form factor ..like the “KINKI” line of electronics…big display , clean lines
Also the inputs are pretty decent..
tho I would prefer 2 XLR inputs and 3 single ended …but that’s just me .
Also , ability to change the display input identity..cd , streamer , phono ..etc
Also the ability to run headphones out of the XLR in the back ..like the Halo May Preamp…..just say’n.
Great and fun review ☕️🍕👍
Yeah, I like how simple it is.
Thomas thank you for this review and question. The reasons for me that one should not buy an integrated setup is the trade off of quality and the fact if something goes kaduk the whole gear is not operational any more. Also upgrading is (mostly) out of the question and/or using another brand for a specific function (another dac or streamer in the dac/streamer combo for example) is impossible.
Enjoying audio is also the opportunity to have the best of different worlds, to create and hear the combined solution at a certain time and having the abilty to quest for improvement. With an integrated setup your stuck.
Yeah, there are pros and cons.
So Thomas when are we going to experience a tube pre and a tube poweramp from Galion Audio?🙂
I have a better idea for a remote...a Clapper. Clap your hands once to decrease volume, twice to increase, three times to turn off/on. Still trying to solve the problem of audience clapping in records though. :-)
Hehe, your wife will love you when you try to change the volume late at night.
I dig the look.
I have a Holo Spring 3 kte w/ internal pre amp. I want to upgrade to a Holo May Kte that requires a external preamp. I have to do this in steps. First the preamp (Schiit Freya?) . I would use it in conjunction with the internal preamp in the Holo Spring. Holo Audio told me the default pass through is to set the volume to 94 on the Holo preamp. Having not tried this, I’m hoping you could shed some light on this set up
Thanks, mike
What is or was your favorite pre-amp? Why?
Non-affiliated link: shenzhenaudio.com/products/ladder-bach-fully-balanced-hifi-preamplifier-r-2r-structure-stable-output-amplifier
Interesting. Got the Freya +(it was pain in the ass to get one i Europe) and The Ladder Schuman dac, wich is very impressive to say the least, choosed it from many other options inculding Gustards R26 and A26, Denafrips Ares 12th. As im bulding a second system im searching for a preamplifier again...to go with a pair Schiit Gjallarhorns. I wanted some tube flavor, but getting a second Freya+ sounds ridicolous. The last candidate would be the Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2, but maybe skipping the tubes would be an option. Still great rewiev informative and entertaining :)
Do it!
MP 701mk2 is fabulous!!
Excellent review. In the demo I can hear the R26 kill the bass dynamics, A26 is much better in this regard.
Have you reviewed black ice phono preamps?
I have the Freya + love it. Still searching for the perfect tubes
I have a huge 6sn7 collection. What have you tried and what characteristics are you hoping to find?
@@TheConnoissumer I love a huge soundstage and great imagine. Best I have tried so far are sylvania
@@soberelvis4954 in my experience the mid to late 40s Kenrads (offset plates) have the widest soundstage. I have probably 10-12 pairs of Syls. The three rivet (or “hole”) T plates really are superior. And the tall bottles are the best of the best. If you have subs in your system the 2 rivet plates are good too. The angled plate Syls from the 50s and 60s are just okay. The gray glass RCAs from the 40s and early 50s are unbelievably musical and fun. The wartime tung sol is good but not worth 5x more. Same for the Russian OTKs. New production the Shuguang CV181T is incredible. Good at everything. Maybe even a little too good sometimes. With an adapter you can try 12au7. That opens up all the European manufacturers. Telefunkens live up to the hype for sure. All the Philips tubes are excellent and yet distinctly different from each other. Amperex Holland being sweet, Mullard Blackburn being engaging, and Siemens Germany being resolving. For soundstage spend the money on “selected” tubes for medical or aviation. The blacker the background the more mind blowing the image and space.
@@TheConnoissumer Thank you so much for the information. Are the medical/aviation tubes 6sn7? Do you have an example I can look for?
I sold my Freya plus. Bought a Vincent instead. Good straight outta the box
Very similar to Denafrips' Hestia and Hades models. Denafrips also made a remote for them at an additional cost. I assume they are designed and manufactured using a cookie-cutter approach in China. I'm just curious how they compare.
Me too.
There are three amps like this, that look identical!!!!! Musician Monoceros, Denafrips Hestia, and Ladder.....!!!!!
What is the relationship between Ladder, Denafrips, and Musician Audio? This Bach looks just like the Denafrips Hestia and the Musician Audio Monoceros.
Good question, I wonder the same but too lazy to ask.
They are from the same factory. OEM
Reminds me of Denafrips Hades...
what preamp are you comparing this to for it to be considered affordable? like I've seen hihg-quality preamps for significantly less than 900
To make the Freya + better, I read you can easily upgrade the connection terminals. I wonder by making this simple upgrade, the Freya would sound better once again?
I have a Musical Paradise MP 701. Beside tube rolling you can also change capacitors. This is confusing for me. There are many brands of capacitors and many model lines at different prices and if that was not confusing enough you can also change UF values. This means the number of variations could be in the thousands or more, Plus this can be expensive. So I took a chance and ordered from China capacitors with the largest UF value recommended also 1000V. These took a long time to break in. My system is on 15 hours per day and I think it took months for these to come into their own. My intention was to see if the higher UF made a difference and if so upgrade to a name brand later. Yes there is a difference. There is more punch. I had a drum set when I was a child so I know the sound well and now my system plays drums and cymbals like never before. Music I know from the 70's and 80's sounds so much better to the point it sounds different. There is still more potential to improve as the rectifier tube could be changed or upgraded to something "Cave Man" has but that would add $1000+. For now I am happy with what I have. Thanks for your videos I know you do this for love not money.
Eric's Hifi Blog review of the MF 701mk2 has a link to the V-cap web page with cap uf value calculator.
My Bryston needed 2.2uf
Sch**t amps need 4.7uf
Bass roll off is affected by values, but there is a science to it;-)
The MF is a terrific preamp! Comparing right now to the Denafrips Hestia. Exactly as Thomas describes here.
@@carlitomelon4610 I'm really struggling which direction to go MP-701, Freya+ or Ladder Bach. What were your findings?
@@User_not_found_403
Thanks for asking.
I'm definitely keeping both.
The Hestia12th is nice and transparent, tonally natural with little of it's own "character" imposed on the music.
It's not clinical.
But it's unity (zero) gain...
And of course it's fully balanced, which I wanted to connect my Ares12th to Bryston amp. I can leave them on all day without worrying about tube lifespan!
Honestly I could happily live with the Hestia.
BUT:
The MP701mk2 is super special.
(It's not balanced like Freya)
You get a trippy holophonic, deep soundstage and the ability to tweak the sound by tube and cap rolling.
The v-cap ODAM upgrade option is very good and close to Hestia transparency plus the soundstage enhancement.
This month I'm using Mundorf SGO Evo supreme caps for enhanced tonal saturation...
If you like to experiment it's good to have a reference point.
Currently using a 5u4g rectifier, a 6sn7 and a pair of 6922s.
Did that help?
What amp & speakers will you be using it with?
Do you need balanced topology with XLR cables? If not, half of the Freya/Ladder is wasted!
The MP also has gain switching which is useful when using higher gain tubes. So flexible...but a money pit if you get obsessed with possible upgrades.
Discard the supplied tubes quickly, then take it easy. There's good guidance on tube choices in the manual.
Enjoy the musical journey 🎶😀🎶
I've seen Schiit put TH-cam reviews of their products on their website, but that original review of yours had a somewhat inflammatory title haha!
Hi Thomas, I intend to buy a preamp, what should I go for ladder Bach or musical paradise , which one is more worth buying
yeah r2r power would be complete realy :D, thx for the review
How does Mr Kanta compare Freya Plus vs Hegel P30? (by the way I ended up using Freya Plus in the Solid State buffer mode)
Great review. I currently have an Audio GD Master 19. While i can't compare to the Ladder Bach, I Iike it better than the Musician Monoceros, which supposed to be similar ro the Bach. The Monoceros has a bump in the base though which I did not apprechiate. The Bach apparently does not bump up the base according to Thomas, so maybe Musician and Ladder pres are not the same after all.
Thomas, how do you like R26 compared to the Ladder Schuhman? Both DACs have a good reputation and similar cost.
I think the R26 is technically better but there is something very musical about the Schuhman that will sound better to some people.
I really really wish every reviewer focus full power on preamplifier review, DAC & cables logically should not change the sound even a bit.
He's Back
Hi thomas, i have mc452 and im searching any pre tube (not expensive) , Have you tried the freya pre with the 452 ? or any pre 1-2kus with this amp ?
Maybe an unfair comparison but how would the Bach compare to the Hegel P30?
I remember the freya+ was described as 85% of P30.
Imagine this one might be a step closer.
Best regards!
Thomas im considering this preamp ladder bach and the topping pre90, mi principal source are tutntable and my speakers are wharfedale linton, my amp a nad c268... Wich one woukd you recomend
Unless you need maximum clarity because the Linton are too dull, my money would be on the Bach.
So the R26 is already a pre-amp, but some DACs aren't.
R26 has volume control. So does my old AH20, but that sounds bad/thin without a pre. Reveiwers say the R26 and other DACs sound better with a proper pre
Goodness. 😏
Thomas any idea what tubes did Mr kanta put in the freya plus?
I have to check.
What about a R2D2 preamp?
Gustard R26 review on the way…?
Yes!
Another great review, thank you Thomas. No remote however has been a deal breaker for a decade. Trying to listen to a streaming playlist of different music would be akin to an aerobic workout for "relaxation." I'm losing my loyalty to Schiit very rapidly however. The snake oil has become obvious with the unproven boutique designs with the accompanying superfluous fluff designations. It's a volume control like every other audio product for the last century, get over yourselves.
I would pick the Freya+ over the Bach. You get one four listening modes and the flexibility of tube rolling plus five year warranty. Not to mention, the Ladder Bach Preamp doesn't even come with a remote by default. That's a hard pass for me.
Thomas, would you bother adding the Bach to a Ladder DAC + Willsenton R300 setup? thank you 🙏🏻
No don't bother.
@@ThomasAndStereo thank you Thomas, i am about to order Klipsch 600M v1 and i was also wondering if you'd tried them with the r300... v2 is quite a bit more money and apparently sounds different and i don't plan to DSP, stick to the v1? thoughts? thank you, i love your channel ❤️
@@lattugatartaruga I did not try it with a RP600M v1 or v2 so I don't know, sorry.
Is the sound smooth buttery warm spicy laidback forward musical? I only like preamp that are smooth buttery warm spicy laidback forward musical.
Perhaps tubes?
"this is a high quality metal remote that you can use for self defense" lol 😂
Like your stuff, but there is no reason to throw another component into the chain.
Looks eerily similar to a Denafrips preamp...
Like a twin.
Actually this preamp with gain?
Generic denafrips?
I know it looks similar.
🙋♂️ THOMAS THANKS 🙏 FOR SHARING…YOUR THOUGHTS 🧐 …AND A STORY 🤗😱
PERSONALLY I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE TO COMPARE 🤷♂️💚💚💚
Glad you enjoyed it
@@ThomasAndStereo I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS TO HELP OTHERS…🤗 EXPAND THEIR THINKING 🤔
Average joe take the Singxer SA1 headphone and preamp combo. Price perf, nothing comes to the combo when xlr is needed in your system.
Is it as good as the Audio G-D Master19 ?
I don't think so but it is based on memory. I did try an Audio GD preamp but not sure it is the master 19.
Interesting preamp but one concern. I'd like to see 4 or 5 inputs and it would be nice if all inputs could take RCA or balanced inputs. This takes more real estate to a bigger box is needed so compact units need not apply. My system has the Rogue RP5 which does not have balanced ins or outs (the later RP-7 does and had it been available I probably would have sprung for it). The RPO-5 has 5 single ended inputs and one of them is a switcable (line level, MM or NC) input. The phone input has selectable gain and loading options and that allows the user a lot of choice.
I have poor euesight and the rogue control layout is great for those of us who appreciate being able to tell what the preamp is setup for at a glance. The one caveat is it's size, it's bigger thgan most components but the build quality is very good and it's very easy on the ears - even has a very good dedicated headphone output.
It costs more than eithof your kighlighted products but IMHO it's worth it because of the usability..
Thanks for the comment.
I’m sorry, but those tubes sticking out of the Freya+ have me mesmerized. Maybe looks still count…
How many mugs do you still have in your basement ? 😄
Great LP = Bonny Doon, Longwave.
Listen, you may like Mr.T
If you have equipment ... Of course you need a pre amp ? Tape monitor ? You don't record ? Phono stage ? You don't own a turntable ? You don't play with your equipment ?
There was once a time when people played with their equipment ? raising cables off the floor doesn't count !
And where are the xtz cinema speakers?
But you haven't really answered your own - and still my - question: why would I spend $1K for this thing. I think I know what a DAC does. It changes the digital signal to analog. We need an external one because the ones in our source devices are inferior. OK I can accept that. The amplifier brings power to that signal to push air pressure and the signal into speakers or headphones. The speakers and headphones are the things that turn those signals into actual sound waves that enter our ears. More or less that's what happens, I think. And I can get my head around all that. BUT if my amplifier or my DAC has a volume control--and nowadays you would have to try hard to build a system where at least one of those did NOT have a volume control--then what the hekity heck does a darn pre-amp actually DO.....for a thousand dollars??? and btw, even if my DAC or amplifier doesn't have a volume control, my source device (i.e. my computer) does anyway. I mean a thousand shmackers can buy me a heckuva lotta....really pleasant experiences and I don't wanna throw give up those experiences for just a heckuva lotta empty promises.
The reason I quickly touched on at the end of the video is because of the possible impedence mismatch between your source and power amp. Just google it as it is a subject discussed frequently.