What a lovely video. I learned more about DACS in these 15 minutes than in many many other videos. The presentation of the individual DAC models, of their characters and quirks and their pairing with amps felt almost like the couples psychology 101 :-) It provided an almost dramatic spectacle. This is the way to do it for laymen.
This is exactly the kind of review that we need more of. I recently updated part of my system to match my Harbeth 7ES. And added more components that I was first contemplating. Good NCx500 Class D amp. Ladder Bach R2R preamp. Denafrips Arce streamer and Enyo 15th=Ares 12th DAC. I very much like the sound of the system and the DAC as I have left my Denon 1600 SACD Sigma delta internal DAC for pretty much only that....SACD. I have been hitching to further update the DAC to either a new Pontus 15th = Venus 12th or a used Pontus II with 1.4 firmware. But the 15th at three times the price of my Ares 12th made me think twice. Your comment bring some sanity to the madness and made me realized that I might not hear any imporvement from a Venus 12th in my system. Still on the verge regarding the used Pontus 2 as local pricing in Canada is more achievable, but more likley to stick with teh Arce/Ares combo based on your review of teh Iris/Ares both having similar qualities.
@abritishaudiophile7314 Well, I did get a used Pontus 2 with the latest firmware at a very good price. I was worried that there would not be any improvement over the Ares 12th....but I am happy to say that there is a higher level of refinement to make me very happy with system synergy. Just the tighter, more detailled bass makes it worth it by itself.
Fantastic episode! I deliberately didn’t say review, because it was educational about DACs per se. And the section on when you don’t really need to add a DAC is a rare jewel. It keeps your channel one of the most honest and trustworthy.
I use the Denafrips Pontus II (v. 3.5 firmware)/Denafrips Hermes Combo as my DAC. With my $4K stereo preamp and 1200AS-based monoblocks that err toward top to bottom neutrality, the Denafrips combo is extraordinarily detailed, with a wide and deep soundstage. Instrumental textures are remarkable for the $3000 combo price. Ultimately, it makes hours of listening pleasurable beyond measure. Adding Denafrips' own Hermes DDC with OCXO clock really takes the Pontus II to another level when played exclusively through its i²s input. As such, the Hermes functions as the Pontus II's digital input source selecter. That said, the advice given when using less resolving gear to stick with the built-in DACs is one of the best pieces of advice given by any online reviewer when the buyer intends to not pursue an audio addiction. In all, a refreshingly honest treatment of the subject. Thank you!
Tarun, this is the feature video I’ve been waiting for. There are lots of Denafrips dac reviews out there, however you have put the DACs in context for me, enabling me to choose the right dac for the system I’m considering purchasing in the new year. Many thanks
Thank you for an interesting and educative video. As always an honest review giving us a true perspective of how we should approach the next step in our audiophile journey. Valuable indeed!
Too many get caught up with this notion of FOMO (fear of missing out). While I too am not immune, I've at least concluded that sticking with mid-tier gear is the better way to go when considering the price to performance ratio. So many make the mistake of purchasing a piece that makes no sense in their current rig. ie. buying a Terminator DAC when the speakers and amp are not up to the task of revealing what the Terminator can do. So far I've settled with the Pontus II (and didn't upgrade the firmware). The rest of the system (Atoll IN300 and Eversolo DMP-A6) are at home with my choice of DAC and overall I find the sound signature quite pleasing. I'm retired now, and not likely to purchase any more expensive gear. I like what I ended up with and it will serve its purpose probably till I kick the bucket. At least I'll die with a smile on my face.
Hi Tarun. Nice video. I've gone up the Denafrips food chain, from the Ares, to the Pontus II, and then up to the 12th aniversary Venus II. I actually wasn't planning on upgrading to the Venus II but the optical input (used for my TV viewing) broke on the Pontus when trying to update the firmware, and so I opted to upgrade to the Venus II. Agree with you on the firmware updates - the current one is quite nice and an improvement over the Summer 2023 version. Also agree with you on the weakness in coming up with a new model name for what amounts to a few gold plated screws. In any case, I'm quite happy with the Venus II that is fed by a Denafrips Iris D2D outputting I2S. Will be long time before I tinker with my digital front end again.
I’ve owned the Terminator-Plus for over 2yrs & can’t see my system without it. The level of control is astonishing. 0 sibilance & a wide open effortless sound.
Tarun, I am really glad you brought the topic of rapidly releasing new versions of a product. It happened to me too many times when I finally placed my order on a new product introduced to the market, only to see it replaced immediately to the next MK. It happened with the Buchardt S400, Hifiman headphones, Burson headphone amp, and now Denafrips. It is truly heart breaking. Not to mention the hit to your resale value. I was a Buchardt fan and planned to go for the their amp until I saw my new, just released speaker being replaced by a new version. Immediately that brand lost credibility to me. Where is the pride of ownership and loyalty to your clients, saving up to buy your products if you release a new version every few months? Now I'm trying to stay away from those "high profile startup", rapidly releasing companies.
One of your recent best posts, excellent. Indeed I have found this a time has gone on, manufacturers have understood how internal docs should sound so well such that spending more on an external dac has now become of small gains and then personal budget. We are in economically trying times and for most in this luxury niche hobby, it's either saving for longer or buying with an integrated dac. At the Bristol hifi show I cite the Cyrus XR 9, which sounded excellent for the money.
This is a fantastic topic for a video; it is very near and dear to me. I'm sure many of your viewers, like me, have had their love/hate relationship with our DACs over the years. I have learned to slow down on upgrading and, instead, to address the areas upstream in between. I wrote something similar in another group forum: "Items upstream that may not seem as important, but are probably just as significant as upgrading your DAC..." Items include your music server, streamer, switches, routers, their respective hard and soft wares, protocols and settings, cables, power supplies, etc... that's already good enough to keep me busy for years🤣🤣🤣
I've had the same approach. Bought an LHY Network switch, a linear power supply for my Netgear modem, a linear power supply for my streamer and have a very short, quality HDMI Cable running I²S from my streamer into my Pontus II. These changes have all made incremental improvements and have not broken the bank. Sooo sooo happy with my system at this point…but would love to hear an Athena in my chain! 👍🏼
@@bobb.9917 I'm still on the original Pontus🤣 I don't know much about the Athena, but I've been told and I do concur the preamp is the soul of the system. ie Tone colour, soundstage, and musicality🖖
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you for your channel🥰🥰🥰 Once again, your reviews with the comparisons and matching suggestions are extremely helpful👍👍👍 FYI, the best-sounding DAC I've heard in my system is my system is the Ferrum Wandla with their Hypsos power supply. Please give it a listen when you have a chance🙏🙏🙏
Well my process was fairly simple, watch reviews read comparisons and then make a leap of faith, though because I like my local retailer, opt for the Heed Abacus as an upgrade to my sim audio 340d3px internal dac. It does a fantastic job on my standard test of Kind of Blue, Return of the Grievous Angle and Timeless (a Hank Williams tribute with some of the most beautiful singing voices and range of instruments). It covered Jazz and American Traditional folk/country beautifully and seemed a fine match to the slightly analytical simplicity of audio profile. Love you reviews as always
In order of significance: Chip used, then clock used, (then I/V stage used, if it is a current dac), then output amplifier and filter stage (discrete wins, real inductors win, plastic caps win over alternatives). Greatly increases appeal: - support of all known sampling rates, from 32kHz up to 96 or192kHz - support of professional formats and any unusual formats out there (mostly unnecessary but you never know plus it's strangely satisfying to know it can deal with all stuff out there) Additional considerations: - true balanced operation, i.e. 2 chips - i2s input - bnc sockets for the SPDIF input - lack of headphone output and volume control (I consider these to be unnecessary and adding to the cost)
Great video as always and, in my case, absolutely at the right time. I have been on the fence to buy a better DAC but.. i think i Will Stick to what i have. Too many upgrades down the line to really appreciate any substantial changes. Thanks
This video feels like it was especially crafted for me as a response to my question on "which DAC would fit the Atoll IN300" - which you had already answered in the comments at the time. 🤗 Thanks for making it even clearer that no DAC upgrade is needed. That leaves me with a problem, though.... what to do next with my system? I love the Atoll 😶
I run a fairly traditional all analogue amplication system so for all digital sources a dac is needed either built in or given my upgrade to the Cambridge CXC v2 cd transport a SMSL SU-9 external dac via spdif coax which does give good spacial clues, timing and resolution. The sound signiature works well with a restored and recapped Rotel amplifer which from vinyl sources with a external Pro-ject DS 3 phono stage could be called worrying in a good way but I feel moving more towards spending over a grand on a dac would reveal the limitations of the amplifer rather more as comfortable a listen as it presently is. Synergy with me is a core aspect of any component in a system as the end product - music - needs to hold our attention rather more than any aspect of the electronics that brought it into our listening rooms.
I usually go by what IIWI reviews Sbroljub has too say about them. He is a very DAC oriented reviewer (sub 2000). I'll keep my DAC's a few years yet and focus on my Amplification and speakers and streamer before I start thinking about replacing a DAC again. Newer en better models seem to be stumbling over each other so in 3 or 4 years I'll probably be able to get a substantial upgrade that will be a match for my then improved amp and speakers.
I first upgraded to great high end speakers. I then upgraded to great monoblock amps and a basic but very transparent preamp. I still have a dirt cheap Wiim streamer and a cheap Geshelli Labs DAC. They are the last thing I will upgrade when I have the money....I think my strategy is good because speakers, amps, and preamps evolve slowly, whereas streamers and DACS have improved very rapidly in the last few years.
Great video Tarun, interesting how some integrated amps have very competitive DACs. By the way, I finally got the Exposure 2510 based on mostly your recommendation. I've had it for 3 months now, it is incredible. I've updated its power cable but it wasn't until I purchased a power conditioner from Furman that I have music coming out of my walls. I'm still in awe of the sound quality. I was going to replace my current DAC the Schiit Modi Multibit with the Denafrips Ares II for playing CDs mostly but as I said I'm still amazed of this sound with the 6000CDT Audiolab transport. So I postponed the purchase. The R2R design is very appealing to approach the analog sound I'm used to for most of my listening. Too bad you haven't had the chance to review the Schiit Bifrost 2/64, that's another option I was considering. Cheers,
Hi Tarun, you have made a very useful and interesting feature video about DACs with this one. It is good to see that there are cases where the manufacturer managed to find the synergy between their amplifier and the build in DAC. Hat off for pulling that off. Having said that, my only strategy is: Amplifiers are pure analog. The only digital circuits I would put up with are the control circuits for settings. The reason for this is that I see amplifiers as something you buy for life (or pas it on to somebody else on an audio journey) where as a DAC is still subject to untimely obsolescence. This is also the reason why I can not get excited by a DAC and still lean towards turntables.
Thank you again for a well balanced honest and educational review regarding DACs. Denafrips DACs are on my radar. As you rightly pointed out the two firmware updates and the 12th anniversary upgrades have certainly stopped me in my tracks. And, installation isn’t that straightforward - adding it all up …….well yes let’s wait and see 😎👍
I like the way you presented this video. I believe it will help some who may be unsure as to how to get the best for their systems. You may not like the Denafrips way of upgrading, but they’re trying to compete in a hard market and this is tricky particularly for DACs. The differences aren’t that huge when you get above the Venus range. It’s not that they aren’t noticeable, but they can be more subtle. This makes picking one harder for some as if they change one thing in their system, the character can be not what they expected and that can be problematic. If they follow your advice, they are not likely to go wrong. It’s best to get the main components out of the way first. The DAC can then be an easier choice. There are other opinions. I believe that the DAC should be last as it will change the character, but not hugely if they choose well. Thank you Tarun for clearing this up. It will be a big help in the choosing.
Great review as always. I have been playing with the idea of using a DAC, but my thinking tells me I will need to upgrade my amplifiers first and then see what the improvement is before taking the plunge.
Thank you as always, Tarun. I wish you and the family a wonderful Christmas and New Year, and I hope to catch up with you again in the New Year. Take care and all the best, Sir. p.s. My DAC choice process, is to listen to reviewers and look for sound fidelity over bells and whistles. Not very scientific, but so far I can't complain. 😂
My main source of information for choosing a DAC is TH-cam reviews. That's why I have the Denfrips DAC Ares II along with the DDC Iris, one more reason to thank your videos. As a streamer I have the Hifi Rose rs250a, great sound, poor support for streaming apps, both music and podcasts. I also have the Bluesound node 2i, the complete opposite in support to the hifi rose. My cd player is an emotiva erc-3.
Hi I’ve been chasing the digital upgrade path for many years Aries G2 ,Chord TT ,Luxman amps,Focal kanta speakers , however I recently bought a 1981 Linn Lp 12 turntable ittok tonearm which is all in original well looked after condition. So £8000 worth of DAC, and transport , and the turntable sounds better very different I was very surprised and at the same time excited I found a sound digital have been trying to produce ,,,Analog,,,, vinyl is very impressive as long as it’s a decent timetable. so I’m lucky to have both now digital and analog. Everyone who loves music should try vinyl ,digital can sound brilliant and it’s very convenient streaming.
The mains plug shown in the opening advert doesn't appear to be BS1363 compliant Tarun. "The flexible cord always enters the plug from the bottom, discouraging removal by tugging on the cable, which can damage the cable."
Excellent episode! Tarun. I'm running the digital coax out of my Planet CD player into the digital coax in of my Heaven 11 Billie integrated which has a much newer DAC. Plus I can switch between the DAC's to see which I like better by hooking up the analog out of the Planet into the analog in of the Billie and switch back and forth between inputs. I love Hi-Fi gear. Love your show, carry on! Ho-Ho-Ho. 😊
Thank you sir as was going back in forth between may Dac and Denafrips. terminator interesting discovery -I wondered why my system would change in sound - IE not endangering after storms power outage etc. like it collapse like a tent ..after a few days it would return ? now it short I suspect its the clocks and stability of the clocks . now i see the high-end dac,s stability the the dacs . I never turn off any digital players or dac Thank you for your in depth review's
I think a major selling point of the Terminator over the lesser Denafrips models is the OCXO clock and the clock out connections, which saves needing a DDC in the chain especially if your transport has i2s output.
As always, valuable and much appreciated advice. My plan is to add an Eversolo DMP-A8 to feed my current Roksan Attessa integrated, to later on change the Attessa for the Exposure 2510.
Your recommendations of Dac selection on basis of thecoverall gear balance makes a lot of sense. As owner of Hegel H190, I upgraded the Dac in 2 steps, first with Denafrips Ares II then with Pontus II. It was a costly approach vs your recommendation. I fully agree with your thoughts on Denafrips marketing strategy (of rapid releases of versions with minor changes) which sucks.
An excellent video Tarun. My response to your Q re DAC’s… I have no plans at all to buy a DAC or streamer, anytime soon. At the risk of sounding like an old man, I just don’t get excited about either pieces of equipment. I think it’s to do with the format, as streaming and apps just leaves me cold, and I just have a psychological and probably irrational dislike of the technology. I expect that I’ll get over myself in 10 yrs time and then realise what I’ve been missing 🤣🎵😎💿
I have stopped looking at external DACs and have relied on the internal integrated DACs of the amps I’ve purchased. I like less boxes and chords more than the maybe marginal improvements (that my average capability can discern) from an external DAC. And, I seem to answer some questions from time to time and forget to say Thank You for your videos - they are excellent in both content and presentation IMHO.
Hi Tarun Great review! I’m not going to make the obvious comment on my choice to invest in analog, because this week my tuntable(s) is out of action 😮 Nothing serious, just a cosmetic upgrade to my rack. It’s away being powder coated to match my white speakers. Anyway, this means for music I’m listening to my second system. Zen Stream in Tidal Connect mode into Musical Fidelity MX-DAC. I was surprised at just how pleasant it was through the vintage NAD amp and Quad speakers. I upgraded to this DAC from two others purely on the grounds of connectivity. I was able to connect both the streamer and tv though USB and optical ports respectively. Very convenient and also a significant step up for the TV. One day, I may move to install a great DAC in my primary system to replace the one internal to my CD player. However, there are several updates on other kit which need addressing first!
Fantastic video. I've always looked at the terminator with loving eyes but I think for quite a long time it's going to be way outside of my price range (and way out class the rest of my equipment). my most recent pre-amp / power amp combo cost me in the region of £3k (though imported from china - so, potentially, in western money it's worth more than that for the sound I get out of it) - I then bought a muscian pegasus (musician maybe a curse word around here?) - and I dont think it is quite as revealing as the rest of my equipment. I am looking to upgrade to a Pontus II 12th next year for r2r dac. I don't have any desire to upgrade my delta-sigma dac, to my ears they all kind of sound the same - in mine it's modified as I built my own power supply for it, but I think the improvements I think I heard in it are mostly a placebo as I spent a while designing and building a power supply. but beyond that, they all have a similar sound to my ears. Even with all that said - I love playing with dacs, building or messing with them - and they're what I change the most in my system. I generally find a pre / power combo I enjoy and then have fun swapping out dacs and rolling opamps.
Another clear and concise review. Having heard a number of budget Dacs, they are pretty identical. I would even go as far as saying the built-in Dac for a similar priced CD player is better. I only use a DacMagic to connect the TV to the amp, otherwise my system is pure analogue. In my opinion I would need to spend well over 1k on a Dac to better a good £600 CDP. But as I have no real need for Dac....
Once again, Tarun, a very interesting wrap-up. I have the Holo may KTA here for review at the moment. I've heard the current Terminator and wasn't that taken by it, if I'm honest. I guess that's why this hobby is subjective. My reference Dac is the playback designs MPD-8. I've been lucky enough to hear most of what is regarded as the best in the world, and I find the MPD-8 to be the most analogue and refined sounding DAC to date that I have heard. Keep up the great work Tarun love your videos.🎧👍🙂
Tarun - great video as always. One thing I think is worth adding here is that external DACs are only as good as the source you feed them. I found that when I added a Pontus 2 to a Hegel H190 it was a leap forward, using a Bluesound Node 2 (as a source). When I replaced that with a high quality source, I noticed a large jump again. It’s about balance as you say in this video, and the DAC can be limited by the amp but also by the source. In my experience the speakers are rarely the weakest link (I have been amazed at how much performance I can squeeze out of mine)- curious if you agree.
May I ask which source you are using now (insted of the Bluesound Node 2)? I myself have a H190 with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers and has become interested in the Denafrips Pontus II (or maybe Ares 2) would be an upgrade. But according to this video, Tarum doesnt seem to talk me in for it to be the right way to go.
Thanks Tarun, a great video. A great idea to give a DAC overview. I like to hear before I buy or have the option to return if it doesn’t suit me. so many of the eastern dacs. I ended up either the Naim Atom HE as I really liked what it could do and it sounded good. I’m sure I could do better but it was a safe buy for me.😊
Dacs made our life complicated 🤯 a few years ago only a small group talked about them...now there´s a new one each week 😅 A review of the Audial S5 would be appreciated 😊
Thanks a lot, fully agree with your observations! I'd highly recommend to test Merason DAC1. I own upgraded Weiss 501, Abbas Audio 3.2SE, Ian Canada DiY highend Dac and I even still use my Vintage CD players International DAC...yes there are difference in higher resolving systems
Another good video ! I agree that System matching is very important when it comes to DACs . It’s vital the upstream and downstream components are of a comparable quality . Personally I like DACs with the least digital fatiguing sound and ones that are versatile to lower the box count ( eg decent volume control / pre amp and streaming capabilities) . I tend to gravitate towards uk and Swiss manufacturers because of heritage and quality control. Super high resolution is less important for me so I have preferred the meridian house sound over both ch precision and chord . Currently I have a dCS Rossini apex with the clock which gives the best all round performance
You are absolutely spot on. As past happy Pontus 2 owner I will never buy a Denafrips again because of their money grabbing move at the expense of existing owners.
Gosh … choosing a dac has largely been seeking system synergy within a budget. The restricting factor is getting access to different dacs ( I.e. not being a reviewer and restricted by retailers not being up for loaning out dacs) so while I have listened to different dacs built into in my case a Burchardt I150 ( ESS) in the Naim Atom Headphone Edition ( Burr Brown?) my reference dac has been been a Chord Hugo TT2 with MScaler. Adding the MScaler to the Hugo made a very audible difference - to my ears- I have owned many chord dacs and still have them in different set ups, and I admit I would love to hear a r2r denefrips . By way of a request I would love to benefit from you reviewing a Hugo TT2 & Mscaler and comparing it to a Denefrips!
Good to see another fantastic video from you Tarun. I’ve recently bought a Venus II. It was reduced because of the release of the 12th Anniversary edition in which I saw little additional value. I’d like some clarity on the differences between the firmware options fit the Venus II. I think I’ve seen yours and Vinny’s videos on the subject. Is there more comprehensive information available somewhere or do I need to download the firmware and listen for myself. Cheers.
Thank you. There is no substitute for listening for yourself but Vinshine Audio may have some videos with more information about the firmware update process 😊👍
The external dacs i have tested all sound pretty good. The ting that ofren set them apart is the control of the signal to the pre/amp. Its most audible in the lower spectrum. I have found that ofren they sound better with a buffer of some kind between the dac and the preamp. Thats an issue that integrated dacs more often do not have.
My Terminator 2 and iris ddc is firmly staying in my system. The iris broke (my fault) but both together is my heaven for audio. Cannot ever go backwards. Amazing musicality
I own a Bluesound Node. But also a CD transport with spdif out. To connect the CD and Node to my Sugden A21SE I need a DAC with two spdif inputs for both the Node and the CD transport. One sadback: remote volume control would be a thing in that configuration.
Hello Tarun, Have you ever had the opportunity to listen to DACs that include a Valve stage ? I would be interested in your views. Thanks John. Ps I took the plunge 🏊♂️ and ordered some MCRU power cables over Christmas
Makes sense what you are saying about internal dacs being tailored to the amplifier. That's why with my Musical Fidelity M3si that has an internal dac that sounds all right I use an external Musical Fidelity V90 dac. They play nice together. Most definetily it was voiced by Musical Fidelity for their range of amplifiers. I think M3si is a bargain for what you get.
I have been buildng on my SACD collection and am curious to learn whether any or all of these DACs will decode and play them. Currently using an Oppo deck as the transport and DAC and would like to upgrade the DAC to something a bit more modern. Thanks, in advance, for any direction and advice! Really enjoy your channel and props may learn more here than just about any where!
Another great overview and review. Exposure fans know their stuff. My one big question that seems to lack any consensus - If using an external DAC does the streamer (used only as a transport) make any difference? I have a cheap Wiim Mini matched to a quality Chord Qutest Dac. Is my streamer holding down my DAC? I hear difinitive yes and no to this question.
Thank you. Yes, the streamer makes quite a bit of difference to the sound, even if it is only used as a transport. I covered this in detail in my review of the Bluesound Node X Vs Eversolo DMP-A6 👍
Thank you, Tarun for another insightful video. How did I select my current DAC? afford Watch/read every review I could find. Grail for me. Once I heard a system create that 3d image, that's what I wanted my system to do.
Hi Tarun. I’m a wannabe audiophile from NZ and have been listening to multiple hifi reviewers but you sir, are the best. Your comment ‘the goal is to get your system about equal capability’ really resonated. So I’ve subscribed😊. I would be interested to know what streamer you would pair with the Hegel 190 I’m looking to purchase - as I understand it has a pretty good dac onboard already. All the best.
I had the: Arise 2, Pontus 2 Venus 2. Decided to try a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE....and that ended my Denafrips train ride. I still think they all sounded fantastic though.
It would be an interesting contrast to take some high end cd players vs love end cd players hooked up to such a hi end dac.However I digress another polished professional and detailed job here Tarun.
DAC’s did confuse me in the sense of is my IOTA VX pre and power amps DAC good enough or would one of the Denafrips DAC’s give me a more open sound with good separation. I have recently bought the Audiolab 9000 CDT. My Speakers are the ELAC Velar 403 Bookshelves. Your opinion is much sought after as I like your straight forward and honest expert knowledge.
Hello Tarun. Once again a n informative and objective presentation. what I have a need of is more information about streamers.I have an exposure 2510 pared with a denafripps ares ii . I thought it sounded good until a friend commented that the vocals was on the same plane as the instruments. All I could upgrade was the streamer. I went from a Wiim mini to a Primare nt5 which was on sale because of a new model on the market. Well an amazing improvement. The vocals are up front and the artist is n the room. The industry does not talk much about streamers! What I would like to see is denafripps market a streamer/DAC combination which is on the same quality level as the ares. All the best and keep well Tarun
Great discussion, really surprised that the internal dacs of the integrated sound better that the better external dacs, interesting. Hifi is a team sport, synergy over individual qualities! I don't mean to be mean but may be Tarun's system is not quite up to the level where the Terminator makes a difference...
Thank you for sharing. The Terminator does sound better than the Venus in my system but the differences would be even more pronounced in higher end systems 😊
Back 12 years, I was living in the UK (I am French). A good friend was running Proac 1SC with an AVI Labs Integrated and CD player. I spent many hours listening to the beauty of these speakers so I know what they can do. I like the fact that they are still your reference after all that time despite listening to a lot of new stuff. I am running vintage Wharfedale e50 with vintage Accuphase class A amplification (pre+amp) with Gustard r26 and have no desire to change!@@abritishaudiophile7314
Hi Tarun, thanks for always great videos and reviews. My headache, I've been considering trying a Denafrips Pontus II 12th for a long time, I've read good reviews on it, but I've also researched the web and seen lots of reviews and maybe an Ares II 12th will be enough for me. This also after seeing your reviews on it in earlier videos. My system consists of a Hegel H190 with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. I stream Roon direct to Hegel today. I have a Bluesound Node 2i lying in the drawer, which I will probably need if I choose a Denafrips? As I know I can't use the streamer function in Hegel for Denafrip's DAC? Will my system benefit from going with a Pontus over an Ares? I can't deny that in the future I want to upgrade to a Hegel H390 and then maybe the answer will give itself?
Great review as always, Tarun. I'm an owner of the Holo May DAC and would very much enjoy comparing it to the Terminator. To fund the May purchase, I had to go a bit leaner with the streamer, which I landed on the Eversolo A6 for the time being. How much further up the chain do you think I'd have to go to tell an audible difference in streamer alone... my guess is something like the Auralic Aries G1.1?
Hi Tarun, again thank you for a interesting and entertaining video. I am still new in the hobby, and I am currently looking for dac to give my system a bit more wormth and natual tone. I am eyeing the Merason ferote or the Denafrips Pontus 12.1. I think it is hard to choose, when direct AB is not an option. I mostly listen to pop & rock, so I might be leaning towards the Merason for quicker dynamics. Which of the two do you consider to be the kindest on a wide range of music genres? I am already looking forward to your next video. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. Both great DACs. The Pontus 12-1 will be more resolving but is also more expensive. The more forward nature of the Frerot May suit rock music better 😊👍
Like and respect Denafrips, but in my current 2nd system, the R26 with a Singxer SU-6 DDC and LHY OCK-2 clock is better to my ears and tastes than was my Terminator II. Amp is $7K and streamer $7K so my source is a bargain relatively speaking. FYI I'm using the I2S input from the DDC as the R26 slaved to the MC clocks the data on the I2S input which is not the case with most DACs (in case you're interested).
excellent review Tarun. It sounds like the r26 may be the be the best buy. Can you comment on the Qutest vs the r26 @ around the same $$$? I am currently using the internal dac in my Audiolab CD player. I find it a bit harsh but not bad for the price. Always enjoy and learn from your presentations. Interested in your opinion on the entry ML electrostatic speakers. if available to you?
I run a modest but reasonably sonically balanced system comprising of the following: ifi Zen Blue V2 FX-Audio class D amp with upgraded 32v ps Rega DACr Version 1 (clover style mains input) Mission m72 speakers I currently stream to the Zen Blue from my phone. However, I am considering adding a Wiim Pro Plus streamer in the near future to up the SQ ante, and possibly a more modern dac as the Rega is a goodly age and it is starting to show. What originally drew me to the DACr is its somewhat laid-back analogue like presentation, plus it also plays well with the rest of my gear. Taking this into account, I feel that the Denafrips Ares II (not the 12s) would be a step up. Do you concur?
Hi Tarun, I am confused about which series of Denafrips dacs have firmware updates. Does the Denafrips Terminator II (12 edition) have/need firmware updates or is it just the older series Terminator (original & II) that has firmware updates ? Thanks in advance, you are clearly one of best reviewers in hi end audio !
Thanks Blaine. Much appreciated. The series II models had the original firmware but with the 12th versions it depends on when it was bought. Best to email Vinshine and check 😊👍
How I have, in the past, evaluated DACs was price, reputation, and connections. I’m rather dissatisfied at present that my DAC lacks an HDMI input, and there is no way I know of to get an I2S signal into it short of an additional adapter. I’ve learned that the chip doesn’t make as much of a difference as its implementation, hence the ‘reputation’ criterion. I should add that I’m forced to use external DACs (outside the home theater) due to my own preference for all-analog amplification. That configuration may change as I prepare to move more into streaming, but we’ll see.
Interesting that you rate the 190 over the 2510. For me it was a clear reverse. But I guess preference, listening levels and speaker pairings will feed massively into that 👍
OK…I have a Pontus II DAC WHICH I LOVE!…I went thru the considerable hassle to load the 1st firmware update and was horrified to find that my wonderful R2R DAC had turned into one of the cold, thin, overly analytical DACs that i had been trying to avoid by buying my beloved Pontus II in the first place. 😱 After a wait…Denefrips released the original firmware so that THANKFULLY I could reload it! AHHH back to musical bliss….I did not even consider the latest firmware release…it’s an annoying, time-consuming process and…for what? Why mess with a good thing …I am keeping mine original THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
@@abritishaudiophile7314Tarun….YOU just had to say that …😂😂😂 My DAC is in a cabinet, my computer in another room…etc…etc….It’s a hassle and it comes with this uncertainty that you could brick your DAC. it’s just not a pleasant process and is time consuming and fraught with DANGER! 😂😂😂….At your behest..I will consider giving up a Saturday sometime this winter and giving it a try…we'll see. 👍🏼
@@bobb.9917 Let us know what you think if you do! I have the original firmware and want to update it because they say they fixed an issue where it will drop bits when there are short stop-gaps in music (short sections where the bit depth goes to zero and quickly back to non-zero), an issue I encounter in various electronic music tracks and asked them about, supposedly the new firmware fixes that. But, like you, I am worried about changing a sound I like very much already, and it seems like a HUGE pain to go through the process...
@@abritishaudiophile7314 well, two videos about the IRIS. My idea is that adding a DDC might do more for some people that going up one or two notched in the DAC lineup, simply because the DACs USB inputs are all the same from Ares/Enyo all the way up to Terminator+.
Dacs have to be evaluated in context of the signal being fed. Jitter is a huge problem. You should have tried the terminator fed by the arces by I2S and with clocks synced.
Hello Tarun. I enjoy your channel and I've learned a lot. I am fortunate to own a Pathos TT InPol Integrated Amp. I plan to upgrade my speakers to either the Fyne Audio F702s or the F703s and my Node X DAC to either the Denafrips Venus II or Terminator II. In your opinion, would this system maximize the performance of the Terminator II or would the Venus II be a better fit? The retail price for the amp is $7,300 and $12-15K for the speakers.
Thank you. It is hard to guess but even though the F700 series are very nice speakers, I am not sure that they are resolving enough to highlight the differences between the Venus 12th and Terminator 12th 😊
@@DddNnn-r2y essentially, it is separating out duties normally performed by the DAC, to hopefully better quality components, in the pursuit of greater sound quality 😊
What a lovely video. I learned more about DACS in these 15 minutes than in many many other videos. The presentation of the individual DAC models, of their characters and quirks and their pairing with amps felt almost like the couples psychology 101 :-) It provided an almost dramatic spectacle. This is the way to do it for laymen.
Thank you Albert. It is great to have feedback like that 😊👍
This is exactly the kind of review that we need more of. I recently updated part of my system to match my Harbeth 7ES. And added more components that I was first contemplating. Good NCx500 Class D amp. Ladder Bach R2R preamp. Denafrips Arce streamer and Enyo 15th=Ares 12th DAC. I very much like the sound of the system and the DAC as I have left my Denon 1600 SACD Sigma delta internal DAC for pretty much only that....SACD. I have been hitching to further update the DAC to either a new Pontus 15th = Venus 12th or a used Pontus II with 1.4 firmware. But the 15th at three times the price of my Ares 12th made me think twice. Your comment bring some sanity to the madness and made me realized that I might not hear any imporvement from a Venus 12th in my system. Still on the verge regarding the used Pontus 2 as local pricing in Canada is more achievable, but more likley to stick with teh Arce/Ares combo based on your review of teh Iris/Ares both having similar qualities.
@@lucbenac9756 thank you. I appreciate you sharing your experiences 😊
@abritishaudiophile7314 Well, I did get a used Pontus 2 with the latest firmware at a very good price. I was worried that there would not be any improvement over the Ares 12th....but I am happy to say that there is a higher level of refinement to make me very happy with system synergy. Just the tighter, more detailled bass makes it worth it by itself.
Fantastic episode! I deliberately didn’t say review, because it was educational about DACs per se. And the section on when you don’t really need to add a DAC is a rare jewel. It keeps your channel one of the most honest and trustworthy.
Thank you Jeremy. That is much appreciated 😊👍
I use the Denafrips Pontus II (v. 3.5 firmware)/Denafrips Hermes Combo as my DAC. With my $4K stereo preamp and 1200AS-based monoblocks that err toward top to bottom neutrality, the Denafrips combo is extraordinarily detailed, with a wide and deep soundstage. Instrumental textures are remarkable for the $3000 combo price. Ultimately, it makes hours of listening pleasurable beyond measure. Adding Denafrips' own Hermes DDC with OCXO clock really takes the Pontus II to another level when played exclusively through its i²s input. As such, the Hermes functions as the Pontus II's digital input source selecter.
That said, the advice given when using less resolving gear to stick with the built-in DACs is one of the best pieces of advice given by any online reviewer when the buyer intends to not pursue an audio addiction. In all, a refreshingly honest treatment of the subject. Thank you!
What digital cables are you using/ used? Thanks.
Tarun, this is the feature video I’ve been waiting for. There are lots of Denafrips dac reviews out there, however you have put the DACs in context for me, enabling me to choose the right dac for the system I’m considering purchasing in the new year.
Many thanks
You are most welcome Ajay 😊👍
You always deliver information so well. I always learn something from your content. Great job.
Awesome! Thank you! 😊👍
Thank you for an interesting and educative video. As always an honest review giving us a true perspective of how we should approach the next step in our audiophile journey. Valuable indeed!
Thank you. Much appreciated 😊👍
Too many get caught up with this notion of FOMO (fear of missing out). While I too am not immune, I've at least concluded that sticking with mid-tier gear is the better way to go when considering the price to performance ratio. So many make the mistake of purchasing a piece that makes no sense in their current rig. ie. buying a Terminator DAC when the speakers and amp are not up to the task of revealing what the Terminator can do. So far I've settled with the Pontus II (and didn't upgrade the firmware). The rest of the system (Atoll IN300 and Eversolo DMP-A6) are at home with my choice of DAC and overall I find the sound signature quite pleasing. I'm retired now, and not likely to purchase any more expensive gear. I like what I ended up with and it will serve its purpose probably till I kick the bucket. At least I'll die with a smile on my face.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
A fine review and evaluation indeed.
I think many will be grateful for the clarity and assessment we need to hear.
Thank you.
Much appreciated Peter 😊👍
Hi Tarun. Nice video. I've gone up the Denafrips food chain, from the Ares, to the Pontus II, and then up to the 12th aniversary Venus II. I actually wasn't planning on upgrading to the Venus II but the optical input (used for my TV viewing) broke on the Pontus when trying to update the firmware, and so I opted to upgrade to the Venus II. Agree with you on the firmware updates - the current one is quite nice and an improvement over the Summer 2023 version. Also agree with you on the weakness in coming up with a new model name for what amounts to a few gold plated screws. In any case, I'm quite happy with the Venus II that is fed by a Denafrips Iris D2D outputting I2S. Will be long time before I tinker with my digital front end again.
Thank you Joshua 👍
Excellent explanation Turin, very well done.
@@daviddarmanin2188 thx 👍
I’ve owned the Terminator-Plus for over 2yrs & can’t see my system without it. The level of control is astonishing. 0 sibilance & a wide open effortless sound.
Cool 😎
Mine will arrive in 2 days. I can’t wait. Soooo looking forward to installing it into my system. Terminator Plus 12th coming to daddy 😊.
Tarun, I am really glad you brought the topic of rapidly releasing new versions of a product. It happened to me too many times when I finally placed my order on a new product introduced to the market, only to see it replaced immediately to the next MK. It happened with the Buchardt S400, Hifiman headphones, Burson headphone amp, and now Denafrips. It is truly heart breaking. Not to mention the hit to your resale value. I was a Buchardt fan and planned to go for the their amp until I saw my new, just released speaker being replaced by a new version. Immediately that brand lost credibility to me. Where is the pride of ownership and loyalty to your clients, saving up to buy your products if you release a new version every few months? Now I'm trying to stay away from those "high profile startup", rapidly releasing companies.
Thank you 👍
One of your recent best posts, excellent. Indeed I have found this a time has gone on, manufacturers have understood how internal docs should sound so well such that spending more on an external dac has now become of small gains and then personal budget. We are in economically trying times and for most in this luxury niche hobby, it's either saving for longer or buying with an integrated dac. At the Bristol hifi show I cite the Cyrus XR 9, which sounded excellent for the money.
Thank you. Much appreciated 😊👍
This is a fantastic topic for a video; it is very near and dear to me. I'm sure many of your viewers, like me, have had their love/hate relationship with our DACs over the years. I have learned to slow down on upgrading and, instead, to address the areas upstream in between. I wrote something similar in another group forum: "Items upstream that may not seem as important, but are probably just as significant as upgrading your DAC..." Items include your music server, streamer, switches, routers, their respective hard and soft wares, protocols and settings, cables, power supplies, etc... that's already good enough to keep me busy for years🤣🤣🤣
I've had the same approach. Bought an LHY Network switch, a linear power supply for my Netgear modem, a linear power supply for my streamer and have a very short, quality HDMI Cable running I²S from my streamer into my Pontus II. These changes have all made incremental improvements and have not broken the bank. Sooo sooo happy with my system at this point…but would love to hear an Athena in my chain! 👍🏼
@@bobb.9917 I'm still on the original Pontus🤣 I don't know much about the Athena, but I've been told and I do concur the preamp is the soul of the system. ie Tone colour, soundstage, and musicality🖖
Great to learn about your experiences 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you for your channel🥰🥰🥰 Once again, your reviews with the comparisons and matching suggestions are extremely helpful👍👍👍 FYI, the best-sounding DAC I've heard in my system is my system is the Ferrum Wandla with their Hypsos power supply. Please give it a listen when you have a chance🙏🙏🙏
You are a fountain of insight and knowledge, sir. I sincerely thank you for bringing so much into my hifi hobby. Greetings from Istanbul..
Thank you kindly. Very much appreciated 😊👍
Well my process was fairly simple, watch reviews read comparisons and then make a leap of faith, though because I like my local retailer, opt for the Heed Abacus as an upgrade to my sim audio 340d3px internal dac. It does a fantastic job on my standard test of Kind of Blue, Return of the Grievous Angle and Timeless (a Hank Williams tribute with some of the most beautiful singing voices and range of instruments). It covered Jazz and American Traditional folk/country beautifully and seemed a fine match to the slightly analytical simplicity of audio profile. Love you reviews as always
Thank you kindly 😊👍
Thanks for the insight on how good an internal DAC can actually be.
Most welcome 👍
In order of significance:
Chip used, then clock used, (then I/V stage used, if it is a current dac), then output amplifier and filter stage (discrete wins, real inductors win, plastic caps win over alternatives).
Greatly increases appeal:
- support of all known sampling rates, from 32kHz up to 96 or192kHz
- support of professional formats and any unusual formats out there (mostly unnecessary but you never know plus it's strangely satisfying to know it can deal with all stuff out there)
Additional considerations:
- true balanced operation, i.e. 2 chips
- i2s input
- bnc sockets for the SPDIF input
- lack of headphone output and volume control (I consider these to be unnecessary and adding to the cost)
Thank you for sharing 😊
What a knowledgeable and down to earth analysis. Thank you!
Great video Tarun
Thank you 😊
Great video as always and, in my case, absolutely at the right time. I have been on the fence to buy a better DAC but.. i think i Will Stick to what i have. Too many upgrades down the line to really appreciate any substantial changes. Thanks
Thank you 👍
This video feels like it was especially crafted for me as a response to my question on "which DAC would fit the Atoll IN300" - which you had already answered in the comments at the time. 🤗
Thanks for making it even clearer that no DAC upgrade is needed.
That leaves me with a problem, though.... what to do next with my system? I love the Atoll 😶
Thank you. It is a nice problem to have 👍
Tarun keep the education going you are onto something . Thanks
Thank you. Much appreciated 😊👍
I run a fairly traditional all analogue amplication system so for all digital sources a dac is needed either built in or given my upgrade to the Cambridge CXC v2 cd transport a SMSL SU-9 external dac via spdif coax which does give good spacial clues, timing and resolution.
The sound signiature works well with a restored and recapped Rotel amplifer which from vinyl sources with a external Pro-ject DS 3 phono stage could be called worrying in a good way but I feel moving more towards spending over a grand on a dac would reveal the limitations of the amplifer rather more as comfortable a listen as it presently is.
Synergy with me is a core aspect of any component in a system as the end product - music - needs to hold our attention rather more than any aspect of the electronics that brought it into our listening rooms.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
Great outlook on Dacs. I chose my dacs based on price, features and reviews.
Thank you 👍
Thanks 🙏 Tarun , great information
Thank you 👍
I usually go by what IIWI reviews Sbroljub has too say about them. He is a very DAC oriented reviewer (sub 2000). I'll keep my DAC's a few years yet and focus on my Amplification and speakers and streamer before I start thinking about replacing a DAC again. Newer en better models seem to be stumbling over each other so in 3 or 4 years I'll probably be able to get a substantial upgrade that will be a match for my then improved amp and speakers.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Very helpful, thank you Tarun!
Most welcome 👍
I first upgraded to great high end speakers. I then upgraded to great monoblock amps and a basic but very transparent preamp. I still have a dirt cheap Wiim streamer and a cheap Geshelli Labs DAC. They are the last thing I will upgrade when I have the money....I think my strategy is good because speakers, amps, and preamps evolve slowly, whereas streamers and DACS have improved very rapidly in the last few years.
Thank you for sharing 😊
You can also adjust the EQ with room correction on your WiiM, for both Harman and BK which is truly where it shines!
Great video Tarun, interesting how some integrated amps have very competitive DACs. By the way, I finally got the Exposure 2510 based on mostly your recommendation. I've had it for 3 months now, it is incredible. I've updated its power cable but it wasn't until I purchased a power conditioner from Furman that I have music coming out of my walls. I'm still in awe of the sound quality. I was going to replace my current DAC the Schiit Modi Multibit with the Denafrips Ares II for playing CDs mostly but as I said I'm still amazed of this sound with the 6000CDT Audiolab transport. So I postponed the purchase. The R2R design is very appealing to approach the analog sound I'm used to for most of my listening. Too bad you haven't had the chance to review the Schiit Bifrost 2/64, that's another option I was considering. Cheers,
That is great! 👍
Hi Tarun, you have made a very useful and interesting feature video about DACs with this one. It is good to see that there are cases where the manufacturer managed to find the synergy between their amplifier and the build in DAC. Hat off for pulling that off. Having said that, my only strategy is: Amplifiers are pure analog. The only digital circuits I would put up with are the control circuits for settings. The reason for this is that I see amplifiers as something you buy for life (or pas it on to somebody else on an audio journey) where as a DAC is still subject to untimely obsolescence. This is also the reason why I can not get excited by a DAC and still lean towards turntables.
Thank you Hugo. Much appreciated 😊👍
Thank you again for a well balanced honest and educational review regarding DACs. Denafrips DACs are on my radar. As you rightly pointed out the two firmware updates and the 12th anniversary upgrades have certainly stopped me in my tracks. And, installation isn’t that straightforward - adding it all up …….well yes let’s wait and see 😎👍
Thanks for sharing 👍
I like the way you presented this video. I believe it will help some who may be unsure as to how to get the best for their systems. You may not like the Denafrips way of upgrading, but they’re trying to compete in a hard market and this is tricky particularly for DACs. The differences aren’t that huge when you get above the Venus range. It’s not that they aren’t noticeable, but they can be more subtle. This makes picking one harder for some as if they change one thing in their system, the character can be not what they expected and that can be problematic. If they follow your advice, they are not likely to go wrong. It’s best to get the main components out of the way first. The DAC can then be an easier choice. There are other opinions. I believe that the DAC should be last as it will change the character, but not hugely if they choose well. Thank you Tarun for clearing this up. It will be a big help in the choosing.
Thank you Mark. Much appreciated 😊👍
Great review as always. I have been playing with the idea of using a DAC, but my thinking tells me I will need to upgrade my amplifiers first and then see what the improvement is before taking the plunge.
Thank you. Sounds like a plan 😉👍
Thank you as always, Tarun. I wish you and the family a wonderful Christmas and New Year, and I hope to catch up with you again in the New Year. Take care and all the best, Sir. p.s. My DAC choice process, is to listen to reviewers and look for sound fidelity over bells and whistles. Not very scientific, but so far I can't complain. 😂
Thank you kindly Simon. Wishing you a great Christmas and new year too 👍🌲 👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314; Thank you for your kind and much appreciated reply, Sir. I wish you continued success and happiness.
My main source of information for choosing a DAC is TH-cam reviews. That's why I have the Denfrips DAC Ares II along with the DDC Iris, one more reason to thank your videos. As a streamer I have the Hifi Rose rs250a, great sound, poor support for streaming apps, both music and podcasts. I also have the Bluesound node 2i, the complete opposite in support to the hifi rose. My cd player is an emotiva erc-3.
Thank you Julian 😊
70,000 subscribers! Bravo! 👏🏼🥂
Yay! Thank you! 👍
Great review loved it
Thank you kindly 😊👍
Hi I’ve been chasing the digital upgrade path for many years Aries G2 ,Chord TT ,Luxman amps,Focal kanta speakers , however I recently bought a 1981 Linn Lp 12 turntable ittok tonearm which is all in original well looked after condition. So £8000 worth of DAC, and transport , and the turntable sounds better very different I was very surprised and at the same time excited I found a sound digital have been trying to produce ,,,Analog,,,, vinyl is very impressive as long as it’s a decent timetable. so I’m lucky to have both now digital and analog. Everyone who loves music should try vinyl ,digital can sound brilliant and it’s very convenient streaming.
Thank you for sharing 👍
This is great info! Thank you
You are so welcome 😊👍
The mains plug shown in the opening advert doesn't appear to be BS1363 compliant Tarun.
"The flexible cord always enters the plug from the bottom, discouraging removal by tugging on the cable, which can damage the cable."
Excellent episode! Tarun. I'm running the digital coax out of my Planet CD player into the digital coax in of my Heaven 11 Billie integrated which has a much newer DAC. Plus I can switch between the DAC's to see which I like better by hooking up the analog out of the Planet into the analog in of the Billie and switch back and forth between inputs. I love Hi-Fi gear. Love your show, carry on! Ho-Ho-Ho. 😊
Thank you kindly 😊👍
Thank you sir as was going back in forth between may Dac and Denafrips. terminator interesting discovery -I wondered why my system would change in sound - IE not endangering after storms power outage etc. like it collapse like a tent ..after a few days it would return ? now it short I suspect its the clocks and stability of the clocks . now i see the high-end dac,s
stability the the dacs . I never turn off any digital players or dac Thank you for your in depth review's
Thank you 👍
I think a major selling point of the Terminator over the lesser Denafrips models is the OCXO clock and the clock out connections, which saves needing a DDC in the chain especially if your transport has i2s output.
Good points 😊
As always, valuable and much appreciated advice.
My plan is to add an Eversolo DMP-A8 to feed my current Roksan Attessa integrated, to later on change the Attessa for the Exposure 2510.
Thank you 👍
Your recommendations of Dac selection on basis of thecoverall gear balance makes a lot of sense. As owner of Hegel H190, I upgraded the Dac in 2 steps, first with Denafrips Ares II then with Pontus II. It was a costly approach vs your recommendation.
I fully agree with your thoughts on Denafrips marketing strategy (of rapid releases of versions with minor changes) which sucks.
Thank you. Great to learn about your experiences 😊
An excellent video Tarun. My response to your Q re DAC’s… I have no plans at all to buy a DAC or streamer, anytime soon. At the risk of sounding like an old man, I just don’t get excited about either pieces of equipment. I think it’s to do with the format, as streaming and apps just leaves me cold, and I just have a psychological and probably irrational dislike of the technology. I expect that I’ll get over myself in 10 yrs time and then realise what I’ve been missing 🤣🎵😎💿
Thank you. There is something appealing about physical media 👍
I have stopped looking at external DACs and have relied on the internal integrated DACs of the amps I’ve purchased. I like less boxes and chords more than the maybe marginal improvements (that my average capability can discern) from an external DAC. And, I seem to answer some questions from time to time and forget to say Thank You for your videos - they are excellent in both content and presentation IMHO.
Thank you kindly 😊👍
Hi Tarun
Great review! I’m not going to make the obvious comment on my choice to invest in analog, because this week my tuntable(s) is out of action 😮
Nothing serious, just a cosmetic upgrade to my rack. It’s away being powder coated to match my white speakers. Anyway, this means for music I’m listening to my second system. Zen Stream in Tidal Connect mode into Musical Fidelity MX-DAC. I was surprised at just how pleasant it was through the vintage NAD amp and Quad speakers.
I upgraded to this DAC from two others purely on the grounds of connectivity. I was able to connect both the streamer and tv though USB and optical ports respectively. Very convenient and also a significant step up for the TV.
One day, I may move to install a great DAC in my primary system to replace the one internal to my CD player. However, there are several updates on other kit which need addressing first!
Thanks Mark. Ice to know the digital rig is delivering 👍
Fantastic video. I've always looked at the terminator with loving eyes but I think for quite a long time it's going to be way outside of my price range (and way out class the rest of my equipment). my most recent pre-amp / power amp combo cost me in the region of £3k (though imported from china - so, potentially, in western money it's worth more than that for the sound I get out of it) - I then bought a muscian pegasus (musician maybe a curse word around here?) - and I dont think it is quite as revealing as the rest of my equipment. I am looking to upgrade to a Pontus II 12th next year for r2r dac. I don't have any desire to upgrade my delta-sigma dac, to my ears they all kind of sound the same - in mine it's modified as I built my own power supply for it, but I think the improvements I think I heard in it are mostly a placebo as I spent a while designing and building a power supply. but beyond that, they all have a similar sound to my ears. Even with all that said - I love playing with dacs, building or messing with them - and they're what I change the most in my system. I generally find a pre / power combo I enjoy and then have fun swapping out dacs and rolling opamps.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
Another clear and concise review.
Having heard a number of budget Dacs, they are pretty identical. I would even go as far as saying the built-in Dac for a similar priced CD player is better. I only use a DacMagic to connect the TV to the amp, otherwise my system is pure analogue.
In my opinion I would need to spend well over 1k on a Dac to better a good £600 CDP. But as I have no real need for Dac....
Thank you for sharing 😊
Once again, Tarun, a very interesting wrap-up. I have the Holo may KTA here for review at the moment. I've heard the current Terminator and wasn't that taken by it, if I'm honest. I guess that's why this hobby is subjective.
My reference Dac is the playback designs MPD-8. I've been lucky enough to hear most of what is regarded as the best in the world, and I find the MPD-8 to be the most analogue and refined sounding DAC to date that I have heard.
Keep up the great work Tarun love your videos.🎧👍🙂
That you. Great to learn about your experiences 😊👍
Tarun - great video as always. One thing I think is worth adding here is that external DACs are only as good as the source you feed them. I found that when I added a Pontus 2 to a Hegel H190 it was a leap forward, using a Bluesound Node 2 (as a source). When I replaced that with a high quality source, I noticed a large jump again. It’s about balance as you say in this video, and the DAC can be limited by the amp but also by the source. In my experience the speakers are rarely the weakest link (I have been amazed at how much performance I can squeeze out of mine)- curious if you agree.
May I ask which source you are using now (insted of the Bluesound Node 2)? I myself have a H190 with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers and has become interested in the Denafrips Pontus II (or maybe Ares 2) would be an upgrade. But according to this video, Tarum doesnt seem to talk me in for it to be the right way to go.
Thank you. Anything can be the weakest link 👍
Thanks Tarun, a great video. A great idea to give a DAC overview. I like to hear before I buy or have the option to return if it doesn’t suit me. so many of the eastern dacs. I ended up either the Naim Atom HE as I really liked what it could do and it sounded good. I’m sure I could do better but it was a safe buy for me.😊
Thank you. That is a good strategy 😊
Dacs made our life complicated 🤯 a few years ago only a small group talked about them...now there´s a new one each week 😅 A review of the Audial S5 would be appreciated 😊
Indeed. I appreciate the suggestion 😊
Just buy them all, DACy dudes. Fill your houses with dacs.
Thanks a lot, fully agree with your observations! I'd highly recommend to test Merason DAC1. I own upgraded Weiss 501, Abbas Audio 3.2SE, Ian Canada DiY highend Dac and I even still use my Vintage CD players International DAC...yes there are difference in higher resolving systems
Thanks for sharing 😊
I picked up a SMSL SU-1 for a TV to my Musical Fidelity amp. Works brilliantly, cost 80 quid. 👍
Cool 😎
Thanks Tarun. Funny how when the Pontus came out it got lots of raves, now all but ignored.
Still a great DAC Jim 😊
Another good video ! I agree that System matching is very important when it comes to DACs . It’s vital the upstream and downstream components are of a comparable quality . Personally I like DACs with the least digital fatiguing sound and ones that are versatile to lower the box count ( eg decent volume control / pre amp and streaming capabilities) . I tend to gravitate towards uk and Swiss manufacturers because of heritage and quality control. Super high resolution is less important for me so I have preferred the meridian house sound over both ch precision and chord . Currently I have a dCS Rossini apex with the clock which gives the best all round performance
Thank you,for sharing Mr S 👍
You are absolutely spot on. As past happy Pontus 2 owner I will never buy a Denafrips again because of their money grabbing move at the expense of existing owners.
Understood. They need to reconsider their branding strategy if they want to keep existing customers happy 😊
Gosh … choosing a dac has largely been seeking system synergy within a budget. The restricting factor is getting access to different dacs ( I.e. not being a reviewer and restricted by retailers not being up for loaning out dacs) so while I have listened to different dacs built into in my case a Burchardt I150 ( ESS) in the Naim Atom Headphone Edition ( Burr Brown?) my reference dac has been been a Chord Hugo TT2 with MScaler. Adding the MScaler to the Hugo made a very audible difference - to my ears- I have owned many chord dacs and still have them in different set ups, and I admit I would love to hear a r2r denefrips .
By way of a request I would love to benefit from you reviewing a Hugo TT2 & Mscaler and comparing it to a Denefrips!
Thank you. I appreciate the suggestion. Unfortunately, I may have to wait until Chord do an update before they will be prepared to send me one 😊
I would be happy to as I am planning to buy a Denefrips - Pontus or Venus ( after I off load a few pieces I don’t need)
Good to see another fantastic video from you Tarun. I’ve recently bought a Venus II. It was reduced because of the release of the 12th Anniversary edition in which I saw little additional value. I’d like some clarity on the differences between the firmware options fit the Venus II. I think I’ve seen yours and Vinny’s videos on the subject. Is there more comprehensive information available somewhere or do I need to download the firmware and listen for myself. Cheers.
Thank you. There is no substitute for listening for yourself but Vinshine Audio may have some videos with more information about the firmware update process 😊👍
The external dacs i have tested all sound pretty good. The ting that ofren set them apart is the control of the signal to the pre/amp. Its most audible in the lower spectrum. I have found that ofren they sound better with a buffer of some kind between the dac and the preamp. Thats an issue that integrated dacs more often do not have.
Thank you for sharing 😊
You need to try and get a review of the lyngdorf tdai 1120 and try the room correction as well.
I appreciate the suggestion 😊
My Terminator 2 and iris ddc is firmly staying in my system. The iris broke (my fault) but both together is my heaven for audio. Cannot ever go backwards. Amazing musicality
Cool 😎
I own a Bluesound Node. But also a CD transport with spdif out. To connect the CD and Node to my Sugden A21SE I need a DAC with two spdif inputs for both the Node and the CD transport. One sadback: remote volume control would be a thing in that configuration.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Hello Tarun, Have you ever had the opportunity to listen to DACs that include a Valve stage ? I would be interested in your views. Thanks John. Ps I took the plunge 🏊♂️ and ordered some MCRU power cables over Christmas
Cool 😎 I have heard DACs with tubes but not reviewed one as yet 😊
Makes sense what you are saying about internal dacs being tailored to the amplifier. That's why with my Musical Fidelity M3si that has an internal dac that sounds all right I use an external Musical Fidelity V90 dac. They play nice together. Most definetily it was voiced by Musical Fidelity for their range of amplifiers.
I think M3si is a bargain for what you get.
Thank you for sharing 😊
I have been buildng on my SACD collection and am curious to learn whether any or all of these DACs will decode and play them. Currently using an Oppo deck as the transport and DAC and would like to upgrade the DAC to something a bit more modern. Thanks, in advance, for any direction and advice! Really enjoy your channel and props may learn more here than just about any where!
Thank you. You need to max sure the DAC can handle a DSD and the transport can output DSD 😊
Another great overview and review. Exposure fans know their stuff. My one big question that seems to lack any consensus - If using an external DAC does the streamer (used only as a transport) make any difference? I have a cheap Wiim Mini matched to a quality Chord Qutest Dac. Is my streamer holding down my DAC? I hear difinitive yes and no to this question.
Thank you. Yes, the streamer makes quite a bit of difference to the sound, even if it is only used as a transport. I covered this in detail in my review of the Bluesound Node X Vs Eversolo DMP-A6 👍
Thank you, Tarun for another insightful video.
How did I select my current DAC? afford
Watch/read every review I could find. Grail for me. Once I heard a system create that 3d image, that's what I wanted my system to do.
Thank you Gerald 👍
Hi Tarun. I’m a wannabe audiophile from NZ and have been listening to multiple hifi reviewers but you sir, are the best. Your comment ‘the goal is to get your system about equal capability’ really resonated. So I’ve subscribed😊. I would be interested to know what streamer you would pair with the Hegel 190 I’m looking to purchase - as I understand it has a pretty good dac onboard already. All the best.
That is great! The H190 has a basic streamer fitted. I would start with that and then explore streaming transports down the line 😊👍
I had the:
Arise 2,
Pontus 2
Venus 2.
Decided to try a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE....and that ended my Denafrips train ride.
I still think they all sounded fantastic though.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
MCRU best in the game David an absolute gent!
Great 👍
Tarin, curious…how would a DAC influence bass? Frequency response? Psychoacoustics?
That is a can of worms, where do you start? 😉
Ive an original mk1 ares felt left out on the firmware upgrades. But enjoy my product.
I’m sure it is still a great DAC 😊
When I heard the Ares II in my system, I knew I was done with ESS Sabre crap. Going up, I ended up with a (used otherwise not affordable) MSB DAC.
It would be an interesting contrast to take some high end cd players vs love end cd players hooked up to such a hi end dac.However I digress another polished professional and detailed job here Tarun.
Thank you. I am sure the results will be similar to what I experienced with streamers as transports 😊
DAC’s did confuse me in the sense of is my IOTA VX pre and power amps DAC good enough or would one of the Denafrips DAC’s give me a more open sound with good separation. I have recently bought the Audiolab 9000 CDT. My Speakers are the ELAC Velar 403 Bookshelves. Your opinion is much sought after as I like your straight forward and honest expert knowledge.
You should notice an improvement with the Denafrips Ares DAC 😊
You should review the Weiss DAC204, I think its overlooked
I appreciate the suggestion 😊
Hello Tarun. Once again a n informative and objective presentation. what I have a need of is more information about streamers.I have an exposure 2510 pared with a denafripps ares ii . I thought it sounded good until a friend commented that the vocals was on the same plane as the instruments. All I could upgrade was the streamer. I went from a Wiim mini to a Primare nt5 which was on sale because of a new model on the market. Well an amazing improvement. The vocals are up front and the artist is n the room. The industry does not talk much about streamers! What I would like to see is denafripps market a streamer/DAC combination which is on the same quality level as the ares. All the best and keep well Tarun
Thank you. Denafrips have recently launched a streamer too 😊👍
Great discussion, really surprised that the internal dacs of the integrated sound better that the better external dacs, interesting. Hifi is a team sport, synergy over individual qualities!
I don't mean to be mean but may be Tarun's system is not quite up to the level where the Terminator makes a difference...
Thank you for sharing. The Terminator does sound better than the Venus in my system but the differences would be even more pronounced in higher end systems 😊
Back 12 years, I was living in the UK (I am French). A good friend was running Proac 1SC with an AVI Labs Integrated and CD player. I spent many hours listening to the beauty of these speakers so I know what they can do. I like the fact that they are still your reference after all that time despite listening to a lot of new stuff. I am running vintage Wharfedale e50 with vintage Accuphase class A amplification (pre+amp) with Gustard r26 and have no desire to change!@@abritishaudiophile7314
Hi Tarun, thanks for always great videos and reviews.
My headache, I've been considering trying a Denafrips Pontus II 12th for a long time, I've read good reviews on it, but I've also researched the web and seen lots of reviews and maybe an Ares II 12th will be enough for me. This also after seeing your reviews on it in earlier videos.
My system consists of a Hegel H190 with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. I stream Roon direct to Hegel today. I have a Bluesound Node 2i lying in the drawer, which I will probably need if I choose a Denafrips? As I know I can't use the streamer function in Hegel for Denafrip's DAC?
Will my system benefit from going with a Pontus over an Ares? I can't deny that in the future I want to upgrade to a Hegel H390 and then maybe the answer will give itself?
Thx. Stretch to the Pontus if you can 😊
Great review as always, Tarun. I'm an owner of the Holo May DAC and would very much enjoy comparing it to the Terminator. To fund the May purchase, I had to go a bit leaner with the streamer, which I landed on the Eversolo A6 for the time being. How much further up the chain do you think I'd have to go to tell an audible difference in streamer alone... my guess is something like the Auralic Aries G1.1?
Thank you. I agree the G1.1 would be a natural next step 😊
Hi Tarun, again thank you for a interesting and entertaining video.
I am still new in the hobby, and I am currently looking for dac to give my system a bit more wormth and natual tone. I am eyeing the Merason ferote or the Denafrips Pontus 12.1.
I think it is hard to choose, when direct AB is not an option. I mostly listen to pop & rock, so I might be leaning towards the Merason for quicker dynamics.
Which of the two do you consider to be the kindest on a wide range of music genres?
I am already looking forward to your next video. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. Both great DACs. The Pontus 12-1 will be more resolving but is also more expensive. The more forward nature of the Frerot May suit rock music better 😊👍
Like and respect Denafrips, but in my current 2nd system, the R26 with a Singxer SU-6 DDC and LHY OCK-2 clock is better to my ears and tastes than was my Terminator II. Amp is $7K and streamer $7K so my source is a bargain relatively speaking. FYI I'm using the I2S input from the DDC as the R26 slaved to the MC clocks the data on the I2S input which is not the case with most DACs (in case you're interested).
Thank you for sharing 😊
excellent review Tarun. It sounds like the r26 may be the be the best buy. Can you comment on the Qutest vs the r26 @ around the same $$$? I am currently using the internal dac in my Audiolab CD player. I find it a bit harsh but not bad for the price. Always enjoy and learn from your presentations. Interested in your opinion on the entry ML electrostatic speakers. if available to you?
Thank you. I would need to get them both in at the same time to compare 😊
I run a modest but reasonably sonically balanced system comprising of the following:
ifi Zen Blue V2
FX-Audio class D amp with upgraded 32v ps
Rega DACr Version 1 (clover style mains input)
Mission m72 speakers
I currently stream to the Zen Blue from my phone. However, I am considering adding a Wiim Pro Plus streamer in the near future to up the SQ ante, and possibly a more modern dac as the Rega is a goodly age and it is starting to show.
What originally drew me to the DACr is its somewhat laid-back analogue like presentation, plus it also plays well with the rest of my gear. Taking this into account, I feel that the Denafrips Ares II (not the 12s) would be a step up. Do you concur?
The Ares II should bring a worthwhile improvement 😊
@abritishaudiophile7314 Excellent. Thank you Tarun. 👍
Good video. Another reason to use an external DAC is if you have a headphone rig. A good set of cans will reveal shortcomings in a setup.
Thank you 😊
Headphones can’t produce chest thumping kick drums
Hi Tarun,
I am confused about which series of Denafrips dacs have firmware updates.
Does the Denafrips Terminator II (12 edition) have/need firmware updates or is it just the older series Terminator (original & II) that has firmware updates ?
Thanks in advance, you are clearly one of best reviewers in hi end audio !
Thanks Blaine. Much appreciated. The series II models had the original firmware but with the 12th versions it depends on when it was bought. Best to email Vinshine and check 😊👍
Would LOVE to hear your opinion/review of the Geshelli J2 AK4499 with Sparkos op amps.
I appreciate the suggestion 😊
How I have, in the past, evaluated DACs was price, reputation, and connections. I’m rather dissatisfied at present that my DAC lacks an HDMI input, and there is no way I know of to get an I2S signal into it short of an additional adapter. I’ve learned that the chip doesn’t make as much of a difference as its implementation, hence the ‘reputation’ criterion. I should add that I’m forced to use external DACs (outside the home theater) due to my own preference for all-analog amplification. That configuration may change as I prepare to move more into streaming, but we’ll see.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Interesting that you rate the 190 over the 2510. For me it was a clear reverse. But I guess preference, listening levels and speaker pairings will feed massively into that 👍
The 2510 has a sweet sound but the H190 has much better control of bass, greater scale and dynamics 😊
OK…I have a Pontus II DAC WHICH I LOVE!…I went thru the considerable hassle to load the 1st firmware update and was horrified to find that my wonderful R2R DAC had turned into one of the cold, thin, overly analytical DACs that i had been trying to avoid by buying my beloved Pontus II in the first place. 😱
After a wait…Denefrips released the original firmware so that THANKFULLY I could reload it! AHHH back to musical bliss….I did not even consider the latest firmware release…it’s an annoying, time-consuming process and…for what? Why mess with a good thing …I am keeping mine original THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Understood. I think you might like the latest firmware though 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314Tarun….YOU just had to say that …😂😂😂 My DAC is in a cabinet, my computer in another room…etc…etc….It’s a hassle and it comes with this uncertainty that you could brick your DAC. it’s just not a pleasant process and is time consuming and fraught with DANGER! 😂😂😂….At your behest..I will consider giving up a Saturday sometime this winter and giving it a try…we'll see. 👍🏼
@@bobb.9917 Let us know what you think if you do! I have the original firmware and want to update it because they say they fixed an issue where it will drop bits when there are short stop-gaps in music (short sections where the bit depth goes to zero and quickly back to non-zero), an issue I encounter in various electronic music tracks and asked them about, supposedly the new firmware fixes that. But, like you, I am worried about changing a sound I like very much already, and it seems like a HUGE pain to go through the process...
Sequel to this one: How adding a DDC levels up the game. ;-) ... even more so with a specialized i2s HDMI cable.
I have don’t a video on DDCs 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 well, two videos about the IRIS.
My idea is that adding a DDC might do more for some people that going up one or two notched in the DAC lineup, simply because the DACs USB inputs are all the same from Ares/Enyo all the way up to Terminator+.
Dacs have to be evaluated in context of the signal being fed. Jitter is a huge problem. You should have tried the terminator fed by the arces by I2S and with clocks synced.
Nice crisp info video. Are you planning to replace the venus with termy?
Thank you. The Venus will be staying 😊
Hello Tarun. I enjoy your channel and I've learned a lot. I am fortunate to own a Pathos TT InPol Integrated Amp. I plan to upgrade my speakers to either the Fyne Audio F702s or the F703s and my Node X DAC to either the Denafrips Venus II or Terminator II. In your opinion, would this system maximize the performance of the Terminator II or would the Venus II be a better fit? The retail price for the amp is $7,300 and $12-15K for the speakers.
Thank you. It is hard to guess but even though the F700 series are very nice speakers, I am not sure that they are resolving enough to highlight the differences between the Venus 12th and Terminator 12th 😊
Can you breifly explaine why a MCLK and DDC and DAC should be used at the same time? Im lost for words on this. Thanks.
@@DddNnn-r2y essentially, it is separating out duties normally performed by the DAC, to hopefully better quality components, in the pursuit of greater sound quality 😊