VERY IMPORTANT, read this before you watch! I get the "limp wrist" comment nearly daily in one video or another with this pistol, but from people who haven't a clue what they are talking about, so I urge you not to jump to conclusions. Most of the issue with malfunctions is the feed ramp, the Lone Wolf AlphaWolf CONVERSION barrel I use has a very thin feed ramp, not wide and loose chamber like a stock Glock feed ramp/chamber. Also, in this video I was not using a 10mm extractor in the conversion, so that didn't help. If you still do not believe me, I did a study of all of the hollow point ammo tests I did with this Glock 41 pistol in both the stock and the conversion setup. Why this is important is because I tested SEVERAL .45 ACP+P rounds that were well over the typical energy level of 10mm, as well as at or above typical 10mm bullet weight, and I never once had a jam in those rounds. Here is the study of just the Glock 41 portion: Glock 41 (.45 ACP) Shots Fired: 93 Malfunctions: 1 Malfunction Rate: 1.1% Glock 41 (10mm Conversion) Shots Fired: 102 Malfunctions: 23 Malfunction Rate: 22.5%
I really like your testing methods. You are giving Paul Harrel a run for his money. I was really want some Underwood 10mm.. but this Winchester is good stuff too!
Love the higher powered stuff! I have a Glock 20 with a Streamlight tlr 1 hl mounted on it I use as my ranch gun. I carry it in a Safariland ALS holster and I love it. You don't have to worry about it falling out on the tractor. And on the rare occasion I wear it in to town it makes it grab resistant. I keep Underwood 200 grain XTP's in it. Extra mag with rat shot.
@@GunSam I forgot i put a 20lb spring in mine. Have the 22lb as well but haven't tried it yet. The mags already had +2 floorplate extensions when I got the gun too. Factory night sights. Internally stock gen3.
I've seen interesting numbers for .357 Sig and also heard interesting things about .38 super. I do think 10mm is a good equivalent since .357 mag autos are rare
Excellent comparison & perspective. This is a great series to provide for hangunner enthusiasts. The 10mm is more comparable to 357 mag ballistically than it is the 41 mag. Though it is closer in caliber(diameter), it is not as "powerful" as 41 magnum. Good results on both. The 357 offering is a lighter loading than expected.
Thank you. The 10mm is definitely different in a lot of respects. I plan to test some hotter 10mm rounds against .44 Magnum and I plan to get a 4" .44 Mag next month, until then the .357 Magnum seems to be a good opponent.
@@GunSam The 44 is a blast I have owned many over the years. Bought my first S&W 29 in 1985. Hunted & harvested whitetail with a couple different ones. Carried a 3 629 for a few years in the woods but carry my G29 10 early spring and switch to a 40 or 45 about now. Thanks
Thank you. I also figured out how to adjust my lighting for better quality recently. I have another 10mm VS .357 with Gold Dot(yet to be released) ammo that is sort of a dark lighting, but then the next video 10mm vs .357 I used Hydrashok(yet to be released) and by that point the lighting issue was fixed, you can see the fixed camera lighting setting in my watermelon test video.
Gel Blocks paint a better picture when you're comparing penetration. That said: I'm very glad you got the Winchester ammo, since that's been a very interesting defense round for a couple decades. And it's still holds up very well compared to the likes of HST coming in at virtually identical velocities and muzzle energy. HIGHER on the scale, we have rounds like Sig Sauer 180 grain V-Crown at 1250/624 ft-lbs.... VERY BEASTLY! Although the Sig brings more Hammer of Thor, I'm very satisfied to carry the likes of Winchester or HST, BECAUSE 525 FT-LBS is certainly STILL BEASTLY PERFORMANCE. THANKS for bringing this video!
Not yet. I see it a lot, but as you can see my format is to test a VS type of test, and I can never find something to compare it to. But it's funny as I see Silvertip, Critical Duty and all sorts of 10mm ammo available, as where even .38 Special is impossible to find. Says a lot about 10mm's popularity, it's not as popular as some would have you believe.
Nice to see Winchester is making the defender and 10 mm auto. I have both rounds in the Silver tip. I would like to see how the to compare. Great video as always
Thank you. I actually saw the 10mm Silvertip at my local shop, but since I could not find the .357 version anywhere I put off getting it. I will at some point get both to test.
Maybe. What I have seen is that in handguns 4" to 6" doesn't equate for much change in velocity unless really hot ammo is used, and when it's hot maybe a 10% increase, but run of the mill stuff that does 1,350 FPS, well in a 6" we might see 1,400 or something like that.
So would 10mm in my wolf 6.2 inch barrel with Underwood Ammo...it's a whole different world with the Underwood ...Fort Scott Munitions and Buffalo Bore 10mm ammo. That conventional stuff he shoots is endemic. It's not much better than 40 sw (short and weak) caliber
Another channel did a similar comparison with a 10mm vs. 40. His assertion was that many manufacturers are producing weak 10mm loads relative to other calibers with people buying into the myth of the "mighty 10mm" and that it really depend on the particular round to get the benefit of the real stopping power of the 10mm. Thoughts?
10mm does seem to be all over the place from 400 to 800 ft lbs, there seems to be no real standard. I think though overall, even the low end 10mm ammo has it's place, because if it's getting the same velocity as .40 S&W, not only does this reduce pressure over a .40 S&W as same velocity with larger case generally means less pressure, but 10mm pistols are pretty much always bigger. So this would be an advantage to anyone who want's to shoot tens of thousands of "40 caliber" rounds by simply using low end 10mm.
Another good video for comparison sake, I really like your videos and you do a great job comparing results .Generally speaking I think the bigger bullets seem to do a little better but I know their are a lot of factors that go into it!
Dad n I had matching Glock 40 mos delivered right before this riot bs and we love them! The 6” barrel will really push em out so I’m super impressed to see this dmg from the shorter rig. Wow 🤩
I got my G41 converted for two reasons, one is that 5.32" is the same overall bullet travel in the gun as the 357 in the revolver, so I felt that was fair, plus almost every ammo shows a 5" barrel rating. I figured 5.32" at 5 yards is similar to 5" at muzzle, so easy to see how well the ammo does compared to what the manufacturer says.
Another great video Sammy.. In my opinion The 10mm is stronger but the everything that it can do so can the 357mag and in my neck of the woods the amount of options available for the 10mm is just no where near what is on the shelf at my local store...
Both seem to be close in power as I have filmed 4 of these videos, have two to be released but two of them have the .357 more powerful and two have the 10mm more powerful, so that's what i'm seeing so far. Will be interesting to go far up in power like Buffalo Bore and Underwood, and see how they really compare.
Thanks so much for your videos. I have a lot of my reloading buddies check out your videos because you do so much leg work to give us ideas on tweaking our pet loads. But I have to get me a 10mm. I never cared for the 40sw but the 10mm is what it should be. But that's just me. I do like all cartridges that go bang😄😄.
Very nice to see the comparo right now. I already have a 357 but just picked up a 10mm. I don't think I want to shoot my 10 in self defense in the living room. If I were to miss, I might walk around dazed and cornfuzed for a few moments. Not good, but this vid is!!!! Thank you.
Thank you. What might be good in both is to just use a load that's lower end. I tested the 10mm Hydrashok today, low end round for sure but like no recoil or flash or anything.
Thank you. And I also filmed a .38 Special wood penetration test today with 8 different rounds, but I used 2x4's so the micro differences won't be as easy to tell the difference like in your tests, but fun nonetheless.
@@GunSam I will look forward to seeing your video on that. I like penetration test, they tend to bring some interesting results. And I agree, it is just fun to be shooting! Take care.
I am a revolver man all the way I do not care for automatic pistols My choice of hardware is the 44 Magnum Dirty Harry special W/a light load better recoil then a 357 W / wadcutters
That Win Def .357/125 gr ammo is a good snubby load for defensive purposes but I'm pretty sure a mainstream 158 grain SJHP Mag load in that Smith 4-inch would blow the salami into a breakfast puree within jug 4 of your test..
Hi Sam, I enjoy your channel very much. I'm not very savvy on how to search individual channels for specific topics, forgive me. Have you texted any .357 magnum 180 grain hollow points? I ment tested...my spell check is a snowflake. Thanks
I have but not with my current setup, I tested the 180 gr Federal blue box hollow points but just with denim and water jugs, before I ever came up with the bologna pack.
Can you do this test with gel I picked up this ammo for my 10mm M&p 4.6 inch and it’s so accurate chrono 1200 consistently in 39-40 degree day yesterday
I guess it depends on opinion. I have carried the S&W 686 before pretty easily, the large frame Glocks poke my body in painful ways, so for me the bigger revolver carries better.
@@GunSam I'm a little thinner than you , I use a shoulder holster , or around the house put it in my back pocket . I also rarely do inside W B at 3:00 . One thing I like about the 3rd gen Glocks is a light rail . I have seen a light fall off a 10mm .. I put it on my G17 . Most all have night Sights .. including S&W 629 , they work great !
Yes, as far as bullet weight diameter and power, but the problem is the .41 Magnum has only a handful of practical ammo choices, so that's why i'm comparing to .357 Mag here and am also going to compare to .44 Mag soon. So in the real world a lot of people won't have a .41 Magnum, they are probably going up in power with the .357, 10mm and .44 Mag.
Hi. I hope you will keep doing well. Some people do better than others, my grandmother was an example as she did awesome for 7 years after my grandpa was gone. She just went into busy help mode for everyone, helped her get by, by helping others.
@@GunSam well I got a date tonight. ( lol). We knew this was coming. I don't know if that helps or not. I have a lot of friends with me and that helps. Ruger Rich
I love it, if Winchester can get this to 1300fps I might stop buying Underwood 😩 and Double Tap, Winchester has really done a great job with this 10mm velocity, definitely magnum 🔋 power 🔋👏🏿🙌🏿.
Awesome video thanks so much for making it. I feel you can't really go wrong with either rounds. Depends on your platform preference, etc. I think the Smith would be faster into action, the Glock more drop survivable.
True, but the drop thing would probably be most relevant in the city with cement and all of that, on grass or dirt or whatever both would drop fine. But I suppose falling on dirt with 250 lbs falling on it lol, might still make the Glock better.
Sometimes it's just me that day. Some days I feel great, like i'm gonna do so well but then when i'm done the groups look like buck shot at 20 yards. So, it's one of those things, more of an entertainment thing for the accuracy part, unless it's like .32 Long or something lol, hard to have an off day with non recoiling rounds, well at least little recoiling.
I'm guessing you're going to continue to find that just about any full-power 10mm load is going to offer more muzzle energy and penetration than .357 mag. But just as importantly, I think that 10mm tends to be more 'shootable' as well.
I don't know that the 10mm is going to show more power as I have tested 4 different comparisons and three of the 10mm rounds were pretty far below typical .357 energy, with the Winchester Defender being the only true powerhouse yet. Now I am going to do an end all test soon with some 10mm Underwood 155 gr rated at 1,500 FPS VS Buffalo Bore .357 Mag 125 gr that does 1,640 FPS in my 686. That's about 745 ft lbs I know will happen in the .357 Mag and I think it said 774 ft lbs listed by Underwood. I used different brands as it was the only way I could be sure to make it fair as both use XTP bullets and both have a sectional density of 0.14, so either way this should show us about as far up as we get with both as far as HP rounds go.
@@GunSam Yeah, I think the real key thing in my previous comment is "full-power" 10mm loads, of which Underwood is an excellent example. Unfortunately, there are a number of 10mm loads out there (esp. from the major manufacturers) that are barely more than a standard .40S&W load.
@@GunSam ....and my other point was just in regards to 'shootability' - since semi-autos tend to do a better job with recoil mitigation than revolvers, I think that for most shooters 10mm (even full-power 10mm) is just more comfortable to shoot higher round counts of, than magnum rounds in a revolver (generally speaking, of course). And as a result, I find it tends to be easier to get back on target for follow-up shots. But I also shoot 10mm out of a 42oz. 1911, so that probably helps as well. I still love shooting my magnum revolvers, but I've gone to carrying 10mm in the woods - I can get similar performance (if not better) than .357 mag, in a higher-capacity platform. I tend to carry the Underwood 10mm 200 Grain HCFN, which is an awesome round.
@@bsmithhammer I tested the 180 gr Hydrashok and it gave something of the vicinity of 1,050 FPS 440 ft lbs or so, but what I did notice was the recoil was less than a 9mm in a similar weight gun. So, something about a larger gun and low pressure from the low end rounds make it soft shooting.
@@GunSam Yeah, that's consistent with the results for the 10mm 180gr Hydrashok listed on the Lucky Gunner ballistics chart. And while I like Federal ammo in general, their 10mm offerings are known for being closer to a typical .40S&W round than a true 10mm round. The Hornady 10mm 180gr XTP tends to offer a bit better performance than the Federal. But imo, Underwood is king!
I always thought that FLASH and smoke and (especially) BANG were a good thing. That, even if you missed, they would likely convince an attacker to go the other way.
It could potentially blind the shooter in low light, and it's loud for the shooter too. I don't necessarily think extra flash and bang is good or bad in most situations.
Baloney packs shake in their wrappers when Gun Sam shows up in the grocery store....can't wait for the day you get a revolver in 45 Long Colt. The PD X in 45 Long Colt is an easy round to shoot. I suspect the expansion is close to 1 inch.
Would love to see that myself. Have only seen 1 gel test of it (Scuba Oz a few years ago). Looks like a great round. Just the thing for my S&W Mountain Gun
I believe the .357 is a superior round in any situation. But your decision is: do you want 6 or 7 rounds of .357 or 15-17 of 10mm? Really, there is no "correct" answer. Everyone has to make their own selection based on these and many other factors about the 2 different firearms. For me personally I'd like to get the best of both worlds. I guess the closest thing would be hot loaded .357sig. No doubt the most unused and underrated round in all handgunning. But also, ammo is pretty pricy. Looks like time to go back to the reloading bench? ...
The .357 Sig was the answer to the 96% one shot stop of the .357 Magnum, hence why they specifically loaded it at 125 gr@1,450 FPS. The only difference though maybe not thought out, is that the .357 Mag had the semi jacketed soft HP. That fragments. I think the fragmenting is the reason why it was such a manstopper.
10mm you can keep shooting on target when the .357 you have to find your target and aim again from the recoil. Both great rounds but I just LOVE my 10mm!!!
I don't own a 10 but have been thinking of it. I do own 357's and u won't get me to give up my revolvers but feel that the main manufacturers have been reducing the load potency which makes the 10mm more attractive. Anyone see this over time where most 125 grain 357's were coming out @1400fps but now they are around 1200? Maybe it's me..
There are some ammo companies that make the .357 really slow, and within each company sometimes a subset of ammo will be low. What I see is that the older classic magnum ammo is usually still pretty good like Remington UMC and the like, Winchester and Federal semi jacketed ammo etc. But it seems that Hornady and then imported or cheaper ammo also loads slow like 1,200 FPS with a 125 gr. I am glad that Buffalo Bore is a company as their 125's are 1,600 FPS in this revolver.
Engaging in comparison videos such as this with a slurry of metrics and numerical descriptors makes me appreciate the migratory divagations of the black-beaked yellow sloot that has taken up residence in a nest above my yard lantern.
What I have seen basically, in terms of foot lbs energy, that your average 10mm is about like this Winchester round, 630 ft lbs, some goes down to 400, some goes up to 800. And your average .357 mag in ft lbs is maybe like 580 ft lbs. However, when both are loaded hot they are both capable of pretty serious energy, using these two guns as an example-since bullet travel is near identical in them, you might hit 750 ft lbs with the .357 and 780 ft lbs with the 10mm, so is the 10mm more powerful than the .357? Maybe, but they are pretty close.
from what you demonstrated Sam i can see why the 10mm is still in production, it not only is a great defense load but will harvest medium north American game with just a handgun at close range.
Noooo! The heaviest 10mms that I have seen are on par for energy with mid range 357s. The hottest load that I can find for 41 magnum in Richard Lee's master guide produces 1240 fpe. 10mm loadings don't come close. If the barrel lengths are over 3", there is no comparison.
Original, full power, loads for the 10mm are yes. Once the 10mm began gaining popularity in the US and teh FBI adopted it it was downloaded to anywhere from .40 S&W ballistics to a little bit more than .357 mag. performance. BTW, this is how we got the .40 S&W. The FBI realized real 10mm ammo was much too powerful for many agents to shoot well and had Winchester load something much lighter. Those ballistics could be achieved with a smaller case, and gun frame, and thus we got the 9x19 frame sized pistols in .40 S&W. Sorry for the history rant but yes 10mm should be comparable to .41 mag. if loaded to their full potential.
I have 10mm and 41 magnum. 10mm is very respectable with full power ammo. 41 magnum is capable of approaching 44 magnum levels of power. I bought dies for my 41 so I could load it down from factory offerings because even my N framed Smith and Wesson with rubber grips is uncomfortable to shoot. I bought dies for my 10mm so I could get above the weak factory offerings.
If you compare the most powerful 10mm to the weakest 41 there close. If you compare the most powerful of each the 41 smokes the 10mm with almost double the energy.
It's good ammo, so is the Ranger since it's about the same thing. Can't beat bonded bullets like Winchester Defender/Ranger, and Gold Dot because they use a thick plating, so you never really lose the jackets.
I've been meaning to ask you if you wouldn't mind comparing a 44 Spl to a 9mm or even a 38 Spl? I use a 44 Spl for home defense and I'm curious how it would stack up in one of your tests. Thanks for what you do!
I am actually going to purchase a 4" .44 Mag next month so I can do .44 Special and .44 Magnum tests. I will probably use .44 Mag to compare to .357 Mag and 10mm and .44 Special to compare to .45 ACP.
That is a good idea. The .44 special does well in my opinion, and is one of my favorite rounds. Especially in terms of follow up shots and plenty of power. This was a great video, and impressive results. The .357 looked awesome. The 10mm is real strong but shooting that out of any polymer pistol does not sound fun to me.
Gary, from what i have seen, the Hirnady 165 gr FTX is a good choice. Buffalo Bore makes a warm 190 gr soft cast lead HP that looks impressive. Federal still loads their 200 gr LSWCHP, although it may be cast a little hard. And of course there is the 200 gr Gold Dot and 200 gr Sig V Crown, as well as the old Winchester Silvertip.
Underwood reloads Nosler 135 to 1700 feet a sec And pretty much anything in 357 Magnum in the 125 category. That Underwood reload should be pretty close to that. That's a test.
I have seen the Nosler bullet ones and just haven't gotten around to it. I did test the Underwood .45 ACP+P in the lighter variety and those bullets are super soft, low penetration. Might do a little better with 10mm.
No, absolutely there going to be shallow penetrators. Fringe out too, probably when it hits something soft. I was just saying comparable velocities with a 357 Magnum. When you compare 45acp in 10 mm, you know 200 grain bullets. Really not comparable. I look at the Lost City. A lot more than bullet weight. Got to find that perfect Sweet Spot in between high velocity. And the bullet weights, that's why I stick with the extreme Defenders. It don't got to worry about them not opening or falling apart or you know, what they're going to do every single time. They hit soft tissue. Or hard then soft, you know.
@@GunSam the 44 mag is closer to the 10 mm than the 357 mag but if you could find a 41 mag the bullet diameter is very close and the 38-40 would have the same bullet and speed as the 10 mm would have for a true comparing
@@sherrypulec1449 I guess it depends on what ammo is used as I have tested 3 other types of 10mm and the energy was about 440 to 500 with all of them as where .357 Mag is always more powerful than that.
Nice results!!! They both seem to pack a wallop. At the beginning of the video there was a who dis like Biden or Trump and you tube wouldn’t let me push the little button for Biden typical you tube antics
VERY IMPORTANT, read this before you watch!
I get the "limp wrist" comment nearly daily in one video or another with this pistol, but from people who haven't a clue what they are talking about, so I urge you not to jump to conclusions. Most of the issue with malfunctions is the feed ramp, the Lone Wolf AlphaWolf CONVERSION barrel I use has a very thin feed ramp, not wide and loose chamber like a stock Glock feed ramp/chamber. Also, in this video I was not using a 10mm extractor in the conversion, so that didn't help. If you still do not believe me, I did a study of all of the hollow point ammo tests I did with this Glock 41 pistol in both the stock and the conversion setup. Why this is important is because I tested SEVERAL .45 ACP+P rounds that were well over the typical energy level of 10mm, as well as at or above typical 10mm bullet weight, and I never once had a jam in those rounds. Here is the study of just the Glock 41 portion:
Glock 41 (.45 ACP)
Shots Fired: 93
Malfunctions: 1
Malfunction Rate: 1.1%
Glock 41 (10mm Conversion)
Shots Fired: 102
Malfunctions: 23
Malfunction Rate: 22.5%
A 10mm weapon with a full power, as originally intended 10mm load, is definitely a confidence inspiring defensive tool.
Well said. I feel like I have an AK in my pocket. Able to handle ANY situation. 10mm is the right MM
I really like your testing methods. You are giving Paul Harrel a run for his money. I was really want some Underwood 10mm.. but this Winchester is good stuff too!
Looks like 2 great choices. Hard to go wrong. When i eventually get a 10mm i will definitely keep this load in mind
did you get one yet?
Love the higher powered stuff! I have a Glock 20 with a Streamlight tlr 1 hl mounted on it I use as my ranch gun. I carry it in a Safariland ALS holster and I love it. You don't have to worry about it falling out on the tractor. And on the rare occasion I wear it in to town it makes it grab resistant. I keep Underwood 200 grain XTP's in it. Extra mag with rat shot.
I will probably get into Underwood ammo shortly, upgraded my spring to a 22 lb.
@@GunSam I forgot i put a 20lb spring in mine. Have the 22lb as well but haven't tried it yet. The mags already had +2 floorplate extensions when I got the gun too. Factory night sights. Internally stock gen3.
I hope you catch the 357 Sig bug. Underwood makes some ridiculous ammo for it. 1500 fps Gold Dot out of a Glock 32.
I might if they ever make conversion barrels for my Glock but I doubt any of it would be compatible, but then again I don't know.
I've seen interesting numbers for .357 Sig and also heard interesting things about .38 super. I do think 10mm is a good equivalent since .357 mag autos are rare
How would you compare the 10mm winchester defender against the 10mm winchester silver tip?Thanks
Excellent comparison & perspective.
This is a great series to provide for hangunner enthusiasts. The 10mm is more comparable to 357 mag ballistically than it is the 41 mag. Though it is closer in caliber(diameter), it is not as "powerful" as 41 magnum. Good results on both. The 357 offering is a lighter loading than expected.
Thank you. The 10mm is definitely different in a lot of respects. I plan to test some hotter 10mm rounds against .44 Magnum and I plan to get a 4" .44 Mag next month, until then the .357 Magnum seems to be a good opponent.
@@GunSam The 44 is a blast I have owned many over the years. Bought my first S&W 29 in 1985. Hunted & harvested whitetail with a couple different ones. Carried a 3 629 for a few years in the woods but carry my G29 10 early spring and switch to a 40 or 45 about now. Thanks
Chrony cam quality was excellent on this video! 👌(Viewed from my S9)
And of course, great content! 👍
Thank you. I also figured out how to adjust my lighting for better quality recently. I have another 10mm VS .357 with Gold Dot(yet to be released) ammo that is sort of a dark lighting, but then the next video 10mm vs .357 I used Hydrashok(yet to be released) and by that point the lighting issue was fixed, you can see the fixed camera lighting setting in my watermelon test video.
Gel Blocks paint a better picture when you're comparing penetration.
That said: I'm very glad you got the Winchester ammo, since that's been a very interesting defense round for a couple decades. And it's still holds up very well compared to the likes of HST coming in at virtually identical velocities and muzzle energy.
HIGHER on the scale, we have rounds like Sig Sauer 180 grain V-Crown at 1250/624 ft-lbs.... VERY BEASTLY!
Although the Sig brings more Hammer of Thor, I'm very satisfied to carry the likes of Winchester or HST, BECAUSE 525 FT-LBS is certainly STILL BEASTLY PERFORMANCE.
THANKS for bringing this video!
Do you have a video of the Winchester 175 gr silver tip 10mm ammo?Thanks
Not yet. I see it a lot, but as you can see my format is to test a VS type of test, and I can never find something to compare it to. But it's funny as I see Silvertip, Critical Duty and all sorts of 10mm ammo available, as where even .38 Special is impossible to find. Says a lot about 10mm's popularity, it's not as popular as some would have you believe.
@@GunSam okay Thanks
Nice to see Winchester is making the defender and 10 mm auto. I have both rounds in the Silver tip. I would like to see how the to compare. Great video as always
Thank you. I actually saw the 10mm Silvertip at my local shop, but since I could not find the .357 version anywhere I put off getting it. I will at some point get both to test.
Very interesting test Sam. Both look to be pretty effective.
Yes, and thank you.
Wouldn't want to to be in front of either one of them. Good vid👍!!
Love your video !
Please keep up the good work !
Always quick to click on another of your excellent videos Sam.
Your range has nice greenery going on in summer which makes for a great backdrop.
Thank you.
Seems like the 357mag would be more efficient out of a 6" barrel.
Maybe. What I have seen is that in handguns 4" to 6" doesn't equate for much change in velocity unless really hot ammo is used, and when it's hot maybe a 10% increase, but run of the mill stuff that does 1,350 FPS, well in a 6" we might see 1,400 or something like that.
So would 10mm in my wolf 6.2 inch barrel with Underwood Ammo...it's a whole different world with the Underwood ...Fort Scott Munitions and Buffalo Bore 10mm ammo. That conventional stuff he shoots is endemic. It's not much better than 40 sw (short and weak) caliber
@@GunSam but that same load is running over 1900 fps in a 16”bbl.
Another great video! Have you ever tested any mid weight 357 magnums? Like the corbon 140 grain or winchester 145 grain silvertip.
Like that 10mm damage!
Another channel did a similar comparison with a 10mm vs. 40. His assertion was that many manufacturers are producing weak 10mm loads relative to other calibers with people buying into the myth of the "mighty 10mm" and that it really depend on the particular round to get the benefit of the real stopping power of the 10mm. Thoughts?
10mm does seem to be all over the place from 400 to 800 ft lbs, there seems to be no real standard. I think though overall, even the low end 10mm ammo has it's place, because if it's getting the same velocity as .40 S&W, not only does this reduce pressure over a .40 S&W as same velocity with larger case generally means less pressure, but 10mm pistols are pretty much always bigger. So this would be an advantage to anyone who want's to shoot tens of thousands of "40 caliber" rounds by simply using low end 10mm.
@@GunSam Analogous to shooting 38 and 38+p in a 357!
I completely agree.
@@GunSam Thank you. Makes sense.
Another good video for comparison sake, I really like your videos and you do a great job comparing results .Generally speaking I think the bigger bullets seem to do a little better but I know their are a lot of factors that go into it!
Thank you.
Agreed!👍👍
So...."10mm doesn't suck for either 2 legged or 4 legged defense"
Dad n I had matching Glock 40 mos delivered right before this riot bs and we love them! The 6” barrel will really push em out so I’m super impressed to see this dmg from the shorter rig. Wow 🤩
I got my G41 converted for two reasons, one is that 5.32" is the same overall bullet travel in the gun as the 357 in the revolver, so I felt that was fair, plus almost every ammo shows a 5" barrel rating. I figured 5.32" at 5 yards is similar to 5" at muzzle, so easy to see how well the ammo does compared to what the manufacturer says.
Another great video Sammy.. In my opinion The 10mm is stronger but the everything that it can do so can the 357mag and in my neck of the woods the amount of options available for the 10mm is just no where near what is on the shelf at my local store...
Both seem to be close in power as I have filmed 4 of these videos, have two to be released but two of them have the .357 more powerful and two have the 10mm more powerful, so that's what i'm seeing so far. Will be interesting to go far up in power like Buffalo Bore and Underwood, and see how they really compare.
Great review! Love these rounds! I like the .357 for carry when deer hunting for a side arm.
Thank you.
10mm has been killing grizzly bears for years in Alaska. The Glock 20 is very popular there. Gun shops can't keep them in stock.
Most excellent video and presentation! Makes me want to get out my .357 Ruger and hug it!
Thank you.
Thanks so much for your videos. I have a lot of my reloading buddies check out your videos because you do so much leg work to give us ideas on tweaking our pet loads. But I have to get me a 10mm. I never cared for the 40sw but the 10mm is what it should be. But that's just me. I do like all cartridges that go bang😄😄.
Thanks for watching. It was cheaper for me to go 10mm than .40 because of the 45 conversion to 10mm so i'd figure why not.
Very nice to see the comparo right now. I already have a 357 but just picked up a 10mm. I don't think I want to shoot my 10 in self defense in the living room. If I were to miss, I might walk around dazed and cornfuzed for a few moments. Not good, but this vid is!!!! Thank you.
Thank you. What might be good in both is to just use a load that's lower end. I tested the 10mm Hydrashok today, low end round for sure but like no recoil or flash or anything.
Another good and interesting ammo evaluation. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you. And I also filmed a .38 Special wood penetration test today with 8 different rounds, but I used 2x4's so the micro differences won't be as easy to tell the difference like in your tests, but fun nonetheless.
@@GunSam I will look forward to seeing your video on that. I like penetration test, they tend to bring some interesting results. And I agree, it is just fun to be shooting! Take care.
Good grief Sam, just when I thought I was content with .357mag, .357Sig, .40SW, and .44mag, now I'm thinking that I "need" a 10mm as well, LOL.
And I will be doing my own .44 Mag testing soon
😀
Excellent test, thank you.
Thanks!
Not loving the glock but 10mm I love!👍👍
I am a revolver man all the way I do not care for automatic pistols My choice of hardware is the 44 Magnum Dirty Harry special W/a light load better recoil then a 357 W / wadcutters
Shot a few rds of the Win Def They were differently hotter than the Silver Tips and Underwood Delta Elite 10mm at 1240 fps.
That Win Def .357/125 gr ammo is a good snubby load for defensive purposes but I'm pretty sure a mainstream 158 grain SJHP Mag load in that Smith 4-inch would blow the salami into a breakfast puree within jug 4 of your test..
I thoroughly enjoyed the video
Thanks for watching!
Hi Sam, I enjoy your channel very much. I'm not very savvy on how to search individual channels for specific topics, forgive me. Have you texted any .357 magnum 180 grain hollow points? I ment tested...my spell check is a snowflake. Thanks
I have but not with my current setup, I tested the 180 gr Federal blue box hollow points but just with denim and water jugs, before I ever came up with the bologna pack.
Can you do this test with gel I picked up this ammo for my 10mm M&p 4.6 inch and it’s so accurate chrono 1200 consistently in 39-40 degree day yesterday
Good vid. So, what I see is that 357 for carry is the way to go.
Cool S&W ... the G20 10mm is a better carry gun .
I guess it depends on opinion. I have carried the S&W 686 before pretty easily, the large frame Glocks poke my body in painful ways, so for me the bigger revolver carries better.
@@GunSam I'm a little thinner than you , I use a shoulder holster , or around the house put it in my back pocket . I also rarely do inside W B at 3:00 . One thing I like about the 3rd gen Glocks is a light rail . I have seen a light fall off a 10mm .. I put it on my G17 . Most all have night Sights .. including S&W 629 , they work great !
I would think 10mm vs 41 mag would be a good comparison.
Yes, as far as bullet weight diameter and power, but the problem is the .41 Magnum has only a handful of practical ammo choices, so that's why i'm comparing to .357 Mag here and am also going to compare to .44 Mag soon. So in the real world a lot of people won't have a .41 Magnum, they are probably going up in power with the .357, 10mm and .44 Mag.
Shouldn’t the denim be in front of the boloney?
It is...
Just wanted to say hello. I'm hanging in there. Please tell Greg Newtown I said hello. Have a great night!! Ruger Rich
Hi. I hope you will keep doing well. Some people do better than others, my grandmother was an example as she did awesome for 7 years after my grandpa was gone. She just went into busy help mode for everyone, helped her get by, by helping others.
@@GunSam well I got a date tonight. ( lol). We knew this was coming. I don't know if that helps or not. I have a lot of friends with me and that helps. Ruger Rich
@@GunSam bye the way I think I'm pregnant. ( lol). Ruger Rich
I love it, if Winchester can get this to 1300fps I might stop buying Underwood 😩 and Double Tap, Winchester has really done a great job with this 10mm velocity, definitely magnum 🔋 power 🔋👏🏿🙌🏿.
Awesome video thanks so much for making it. I feel you can't really go wrong with either rounds. Depends on your platform preference, etc. I think the Smith would be faster into action, the Glock more drop survivable.
True, but the drop thing would probably be most relevant in the city with cement and all of that, on grass or dirt or whatever both would drop fine. But I suppose falling on dirt with 250 lbs falling on it lol, might still make the Glock better.
The 38+p has the same flash and bang and lots of damage.
Looks to me you can't go wrong with either round. All depends if you are wheel gun guy or a semi auto guy
Yeah, I plan to keep testing and also do some really high end power testing for both soon.
@@GunSam looking forward to more of the series!
You grouped the 357 better than the 10mm. But that 10mm was shear devastation. That was a lot of energy there.
Sometimes it's just me that day. Some days I feel great, like i'm gonna do so well but then when i'm done the groups look like buck shot at 20 yards. So, it's one of those things, more of an entertainment thing for the accuracy part, unless it's like .32 Long or something lol, hard to have an off day with non recoiling rounds, well at least little recoiling.
Buy a ten and you will love it
I'm guessing you're going to continue to find that just about any full-power 10mm load is going to offer more muzzle energy and penetration than .357 mag. But just as importantly, I think that 10mm tends to be more 'shootable' as well.
I don't know that the 10mm is going to show more power as I have tested 4 different comparisons and three of the 10mm rounds were pretty far below typical .357 energy, with the Winchester Defender being the only true powerhouse yet. Now I am going to do an end all test soon with some 10mm Underwood 155 gr rated at 1,500 FPS VS Buffalo Bore .357 Mag 125 gr that does 1,640 FPS in my 686. That's about 745 ft lbs I know will happen in the .357 Mag and I think it said 774 ft lbs listed by Underwood. I used different brands as it was the only way I could be sure to make it fair as both use XTP bullets and both have a sectional density of 0.14, so either way this should show us about as far up as we get with both as far as HP rounds go.
@@GunSam Yeah, I think the real key thing in my previous comment is "full-power" 10mm loads, of which Underwood is an excellent example. Unfortunately, there are a number of 10mm loads out there (esp. from the major manufacturers) that are barely more than a standard .40S&W load.
@@GunSam ....and my other point was just in regards to 'shootability' - since semi-autos tend to do a better job with recoil mitigation than revolvers, I think that for most shooters 10mm (even full-power 10mm) is just more comfortable to shoot higher round counts of, than magnum rounds in a revolver (generally speaking, of course). And as a result, I find it tends to be easier to get back on target for follow-up shots. But I also shoot 10mm out of a 42oz. 1911, so that probably helps as well.
I still love shooting my magnum revolvers, but I've gone to carrying 10mm in the woods - I can get similar performance (if not better) than .357 mag, in a higher-capacity platform. I tend to carry the Underwood 10mm 200 Grain HCFN, which is an awesome round.
@@bsmithhammer I tested the 180 gr Hydrashok and it gave something of the vicinity of 1,050 FPS 440 ft lbs or so, but what I did notice was the recoil was less than a 9mm in a similar weight gun. So, something about a larger gun and low pressure from the low end rounds make it soft shooting.
@@GunSam Yeah, that's consistent with the results for the 10mm 180gr Hydrashok listed on the Lucky Gunner ballistics chart. And while I like Federal ammo in general, their 10mm offerings are known for being closer to a typical .40S&W round than a true 10mm round. The Hornady 10mm 180gr XTP tends to offer a bit better performance than the Federal. But imo, Underwood is king!
Test them with Liberty "Civil Defense" 2400 + fps -- Best defense rounds on the market.
I always thought that FLASH and smoke and (especially) BANG were a good thing. That, even if you missed, they would likely convince an attacker to go the other way.
It could potentially blind the shooter in low light, and it's loud for the shooter too. I don't necessarily think extra flash and bang is good or bad in most situations.
Both did pretty well, but the 10 mm with less drama.
Baloney packs shake in their wrappers when Gun Sam shows up in the grocery store....can't wait for the day you get a revolver in 45 Long Colt. The PD X in 45 Long Colt is an easy round to shoot. I suspect the expansion is close to 1 inch.
Would love to see that myself. Have only seen 1 gel test of it (Scuba Oz a few years ago). Looks like a great round. Just the thing for my S&W Mountain Gun
I believe the .357 is a superior round in any situation. But your decision is: do you want 6 or 7 rounds of .357 or 15-17 of 10mm? Really, there is no "correct" answer. Everyone has to make their own selection based on these and many other factors about the 2 different firearms. For me personally I'd like to get the best of both worlds. I guess the closest thing would be hot loaded .357sig. No doubt the most unused and underrated round in all handgunning. But also, ammo is pretty pricy. Looks like time to go back to the reloading bench? ...
The .357 Sig was the answer to the 96% one shot stop of the .357 Magnum, hence why they specifically loaded it at 125 gr@1,450 FPS. The only difference though maybe not thought out, is that the .357 Mag had the semi jacketed soft HP. That fragments. I think the fragmenting is the reason why it was such a manstopper.
In Massachussetts, this question would be do you want 7 rounds of .357 or 10 rounds of 10mm? LOL
10mm you can keep shooting on target when the .357 you have to find your target and aim again from the recoil. Both great rounds but I just LOVE my 10mm!!!
I don't own a 10 but have been thinking of it. I do own 357's and u won't get me to give up my revolvers but feel that the main manufacturers have been reducing the load potency which makes the 10mm more attractive. Anyone see this over time where most 125 grain 357's were coming out @1400fps but now they are around 1200? Maybe it's me..
There are some ammo companies that make the .357 really slow, and within each company sometimes a subset of ammo will be low. What I see is that the older classic magnum ammo is usually still pretty good like Remington UMC and the like, Winchester and Federal semi jacketed ammo etc. But it seems that Hornady and then imported or cheaper ammo also loads slow like 1,200 FPS with a 125 gr. I am glad that Buffalo Bore is a company as their 125's are 1,600 FPS in this revolver.
Engaging in comparison videos such as this with a slurry of metrics and numerical descriptors makes me appreciate the migratory divagations of the black-beaked yellow sloot that has taken up residence in a nest above my yard lantern.
Sooo, you liked it then?
Where did you buy the 10mm conversion for your model 41? Looking to get one for mine.
Its a lone wolf brand, found mine on eBay
@@GunSamthanks
It would totally suck to get hit by either of those rounds! Both are great bullets.
My 357 Coonan anyday!
I like the 357 Magnum. But the 10mm is very respectable.
I like 45. Nice video brother.
I like 45 too
Is 10mm more powerful than .357 Magnum?
What I have seen basically, in terms of foot lbs energy, that your average 10mm is about like this Winchester round, 630 ft lbs, some goes down to 400, some goes up to 800. And your average .357 mag in ft lbs is maybe like 580 ft lbs. However, when both are loaded hot they are both capable of pretty serious energy, using these two guns as an example-since bullet travel is near identical in them, you might hit 750 ft lbs with the .357 and 780 ft lbs with the 10mm, so is the 10mm more powerful than the .357? Maybe, but they are pretty close.
@@GunSam thanks.
from what you demonstrated Sam i can see why the 10mm is still in production, it not only is a great defense load but will harvest medium north American game with just a handgun at close range.
It's a pretty nice round and i'd imagine less pressure for the loads that mimic .40 S&W
So honestly, the 10 mm is just a reinvented .41 Magnum.
Noooo! The heaviest 10mms that I have seen are on par for energy with mid range 357s.
The hottest load that I can find for 41 magnum in Richard Lee's master guide produces 1240 fpe. 10mm loadings don't come close. If the barrel lengths are over 3", there is no comparison.
Original, full power, loads for the 10mm are yes. Once the 10mm began gaining popularity in the US and teh FBI adopted it it was downloaded to anywhere from .40 S&W ballistics to a little bit more than .357 mag. performance. BTW, this is how we got the .40 S&W. The FBI realized real 10mm ammo was much too powerful for many agents to shoot well and had Winchester load something much lighter. Those ballistics could be achieved with a smaller case, and gun frame, and thus we got the 9x19 frame sized pistols in .40 S&W. Sorry for the history rant but yes 10mm should be comparable to .41 mag. if loaded to their full potential.
I have 10mm and 41 magnum. 10mm is very respectable with full power ammo. 41 magnum is capable of approaching 44 magnum levels of power. I bought dies for my 41 so I could load it down from factory offerings because even my N framed Smith and Wesson with rubber grips is uncomfortable to shoot. I bought dies for my 10mm so I could get above the weak factory offerings.
If you compare the most powerful 10mm to the weakest 41 there close. If you compare the most powerful of each the 41 smokes the 10mm with almost double the energy.
Think a glock 40 MOS will be my next purchase!
I carry the Winchester Defender ammo in my Sig 9mm.
It's good ammo, so is the Ranger since it's about the same thing. Can't beat bonded bullets like Winchester Defender/Ranger, and Gold Dot because they use a thick plating, so you never really lose the jackets.
The best MM is a CM
I've been meaning to ask you if you wouldn't mind comparing a 44 Spl to a 9mm or even a 38 Spl? I use a 44 Spl for home defense and I'm curious how it would stack up in one of your tests. Thanks for what you do!
I am actually going to purchase a 4" .44 Mag next month so I can do .44 Special and .44 Magnum tests. I will probably use .44 Mag to compare to .357 Mag and 10mm and .44 Special to compare to .45 ACP.
@@GunSam Ok thanks I own a s&w 629 so I can use either one!
That is a good idea. The .44 special does well in my opinion, and is one of my favorite rounds. Especially in terms of follow up shots and plenty of power. This was a great video, and impressive results. The .357 looked awesome. The 10mm is real strong but shooting that out of any polymer pistol does not sound fun to me.
Gary, from what i have seen, the Hirnady 165 gr FTX is a good choice. Buffalo Bore makes a warm 190 gr soft cast lead HP that looks impressive. Federal still loads their 200 gr LSWCHP, although it may be cast a little hard. And of course there is the 200 gr Gold Dot and 200 gr Sig V Crown, as well as the old Winchester Silvertip.
10mm is the best Millimeter for me!
Yes! Well I like 11mm(45) too lol
👍
First...and wouldn't want to get hit by either.
WOW I guess math doesn't lie... 10 IS greater than 9 😥
A little!
Can we say owie! Lol
No, they were ones shot stops no words!
@@GunSam 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Destroy it again Sam instead of play it again.
I have a lot of work done yet to be released. So yes there's more to come
@@GunSam I'll be standing by. Enjoy your content.
O
PQRSTUV
@@GunSam WXY and Z governor : )
10mm auto
👍😃✌️
A good test for this would be the 10. Mm. 135 grain Nosler. Versus the 357 mag 225 grain, whatever only in Underwood
Underwood reloads Nosler 135 to 1700 feet a sec And pretty much anything in 357 Magnum in the 125 category. That Underwood reload should be pretty close to that. That's a test.
I have seen the Nosler bullet ones and just haven't gotten around to it. I did test the Underwood .45 ACP+P in the lighter variety and those bullets are super soft, low penetration. Might do a little better with 10mm.
No, absolutely there going to be shallow penetrators. Fringe out too, probably when it hits something soft. I was just saying comparable velocities with a 357 Magnum. When you compare 45acp in 10 mm, you know 200 grain bullets. Really not comparable. I look at the Lost City. A lot more than bullet weight. Got to find that perfect Sweet Spot in between high velocity. And the bullet weights, that's why I stick with the extreme Defenders. It don't got to worry about them not opening or falling apart or you know, what they're going to do every single time. They hit soft tissue. Or hard then soft, you know.
10 mm really needs to be compared to a 41 mag to have a true comparing of auto vs revolver
I am planning more on .44 Mag VS the higher end 10mm.
@@GunSam the 44 mag is closer to the 10 mm than the 357 mag but if you could find a 41 mag the bullet diameter is very close and the 38-40 would have the same bullet and speed as the 10 mm would have for a true comparing
@@sherrypulec1449 I guess it depends on what ammo is used as I have tested 3 other types of 10mm and the energy was about 440 to 500 with all of them as where .357 Mag is always more powerful than that.
@@GunSam 357 pushes a 180gr at 1050fps as ware the10mm will push a 180gr at 1150fps that 100fps makes a bit more energy
Nice results!!! They both seem to pack a wallop. At the beginning of the video there was a who dis like Biden or Trump and you tube wouldn’t let me push the little button for Biden typical you tube antics
lol. Biden would forget your dislike by the time he saw it.
That's a very weak .357! It should have been a 1400-1500 fps round