Consuming Aberration isn't actually considered mill, so even if you hit good cards off of it, things like Mirelurk Queen, Tato Farmer, and The Master won't "see" those cards hit the graveyard.
I'm having trouble concentrating on what Vince is saying bc the music he's using is shared by Nerd Cookies and I find myself thinking "what does this have to do with Dune? Right, this is Vince and it's Fallout MtG. Wouldn't a Dune set be fun? We already have ornithopters. What would a Still Suit equipment card be for? Dehydration counters could be a thing. Or "Water" artifact tokens. A "Thumper' could tap and sacrifice to put 'worm' creature card from your library..." So, I'm sure this was a great video, Vince. Thanks for making it. 🙂
It's weird how landfall fits in so well. There's proliferate, mill, +1 counters, and draw all under the sultai umbrella. I didn't think I'd be building it landfall but it looks like I may be going that route
Most of these are misses. Selvala will rarely proc as your creatures start small and grow, consuming abberation isn't mill, Thassa ruins your +1/+1 counter generation, and more. From a battle-hardened mothman enthusiast, instead try: Non Budget - Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider (double counters and rads) Walking Ballista (assault automatron to stay in theme with fallout) Glen Elendra (Insane in this deck) Mesmeric Orb (each mill is a seperate event, mothman can become lethal in one round) Rise from the Dark Realms The ozolith Altar of the brood Ripples of potential Cavern of souls A mandatory budget addition: Cold-Eyed Selkie
The most fun wincon of all is Nuclear Fallout once you have one of the classic infinite mana generators, hitting everyone for 100 Rad counters and guaranteeing they will all die on upkeep in turn order. Dropping a massive literal nuke that kills the entire table including you but winning because you die last is the most thematic thing possible. And the only thing funnier than that is when one player triggers their Hermit Druid in response to the upkeep trigger, ditching just enough of their library to survive on two and kill you in their turn. Wild plays make great games.
I know this isn't the goal of the deck, but with this much proliferation available, Prologue to Phyresis could be a nasty backup win condition. Especially with Radstorm in the deck.
I find it weird that almost nobody mention cephalid illusionist when upgrading this deck, even though it can easily mill massive amounts of cards from your deck and make itself and mothman huge.
Same, I'm definitely playing a Cephalid Breakfast package in my deck Edit: I just realized you don't even need shuko because Mothman feeds it itself wow thats even better than I thought, still gonna play Trinket Mage to find Altar of the Brood though lol
Nesting Ground is a fun land option for decks that like putting counters on permanents. This can help you control the power of something a Fathom Mage or Gyre Sage to get more cards/mana. It can even let you move the indestructible counter from Tekuthal onto stuff that really shouldn't have it. Karn's Bastion is a recurring way to proliferate on a land. Park Hights Maverick I feel should have got an honorable mention. It proliferating on hitting face or dying and being hard to block mean's an opponent has to burn something like Swords to Plowshares to make you get 0 value from it.
I wish I could afford one of these, this deck was built for me. My favorite colors, with a spin on some of my favorite mechanics with a poison counter like radiation, which also mills, and the deck is mutation and disease flavored.
You were correct, I did in fact enjoy this video. And there were a lot of cards I wasn't aware of that I'll look into. Good video, always fun to see mill treated well.
I've got a mimeoplasm deck - pairing consuming aberration's counters with a feral ghoul's body and sacrificing it to something like an altar of dementia, or just to use as a beater would absolutely drench your opponents in Rad Counters
Some good missed (currently) budget cards for this with proliferation would be Thrummingbird and Roalesk, Apex Hybrid. Really cool to provide ideas on how people can improve upon their precon and still have it play with the Rad counters.
When I played Moth out of the box, I was impressed with how well it slowly chipped away at my opponents and grew my dudes. Like we're all in this nuclear miasma and it's making them weak and me strong. So, I don't have as many proliferate things as suggested here but I do have lots of little weirdos like Permeating Mass and those Rad counter zombies to just... exist in the wasteland. They get bigger and play surprisingly good defense. Trying to make -1/-1 counters actually work as removal isn't going so well, but we're trying.
I bought this deck to turn it into a Szadek, Lord of Secrets secret commander mill voltron proliferate deck so I'm glad other people are focusing on the mill aspect.
I'm quite pleased with the depth rad counters add to mill strategies. Like with the Science precon, I'm digging in the 99 for various goodies for my existing decks, especially my Nikara//Yannik blink+recursion abzan counters brew.
Phenax could be considered a better version of altar of dementia since it can be a repeatable effect of milling your opponents. Imagine tapping consuming Aberration to one shot an opponent in milling, having it live or untapping it with Aphetto Alchemist, milling another opponent, and being left one on one with who you’ve decided you can beat based on the board state.
I used "The Master, transcendent" as my commander and built as more of a self-mill reanimator strategy keeping only the cards that gave me rad counters and/or myself and my opponents. If it only gave my opponents rad counters I cut it. If you get the rhythm going you can mill through your library several times and kill everyone with Konrad triggers. It's very fun!
8:33 correction here. Consuming Aberration DOESN'T mill cards (since that is actually a keyworded term now) and as such does not trigger Mirelurk Queen, nor does it trigger the second ability from the Mothman to distribute out +1/+1 counters. This card never was errataed to state that the opponent mills the revealed cards, they simply put all revealed cards into their graveyard. I think this card and cards like it will be tripping up a lot of players, myself included when I first started brewing around Mothman, and you're not the first content creator I've seen making this mistake. It's still handy as a huge beater and playing into a mill theme if that's what you're going for in the deck, though.
For another budget option, look at Kagha, Shadow Archdruid. Because rads mill you during your turn, with Kagha you’re effectively impulse drawing one of them instead, and can actively mill you a few more cards if you need to.
Probably Bloodchief Ascension more in flavor since it at least has counters to proliferate, also it triggers on all cards going to the graveyard, not just creatures.
Solid suggestions. Surprised you didn't put Bruvac in the non-budget options - when you double the mill from the rad counters, they can hit double the non-lands and take the corresponding amount of damage even though they don't have that many counters to remove
Yeah, I was shortlisting stuff and Bruvac felt like, stone face obvious I guess? But then again I suggest Sanctum Weaver in the Aura path for the Voltron Dog Meat - and observe that it's so obvious, so maybe I am just an silly man haha
6:32 back in highschool we called the mechanic Grind because of Mind Grind. Man it was really annoying to have both Mill and Grind be main mechanics of Dimir in RTR block and neither of them being keyworded.
Some more recommendations, if you really want to Grow the Moth, play Altar of the Brood and Mindcrank. And if you want more value of the mill, while also hating on your opponents creatures going to yard, Syr Konrad, the Grim and Undead Alchemist
Danny pink is so good in my Galadriel, light of valinor decks since one of her alliance triggers is put a +1/+1 on all your creatures so you can just use that alliance trigger when he etbs and draw equal to the number of creatures you control. Then this can be done every turn for all the card draw
So, one of the owners at my local LGS had a proxy of this guy pre'release. The deck is a menace because he'll fire off a burst of 40 or 50 rads on everyone, watch the turns rotate, then take the match. Is Rad counter mill good; yes, very much so. Was mill bad before- even in commander? No, just slower and it required you to be willing to cause some sadness as the other people's decks go brrr. Mothman is fine, but he didn't save mill so much as give it an "I win button" option.
I made one upgrade that made my playgroup hate me with this deck: I took out Strength Bobblehead and put in Sage of Hours. Yeah I ended up getting infinite turns. I took it out, but will keep it handy in the case I end up at a tournament.
I will suggest altar of the brood The way i see mothman is either do a few big mill triggers, or do as many little mill triggers as possible. If you do 6 indevidiuals noneland card mill triggers for mothman, its gonna put 6 times a single +1/+1 counter on a creature, that can be the sane or not. Where as if youd mill 6 noneland cards once youll put a single +1/+1 counter on 6 creatures
Just a curiously posed question, wouldn't too much card draw in a mill/self mill deck possibly cause your to kill yourself due to mill and card draw? I've never played a deck like this before... Thanks!
Absolutely. So you look to win off of Lab Man or Thoracle, or to recyle your deck with Gae's Blessing/Eldrazi Shuffle in effects and similar. or just win before you deck yourself haha
So apparently there are people saying folks should cut the rad counter cards? I didn't buy the deck, but I've ordered singles, including every single rad counter card.
Mill has never been a very good wincon in commander, and I say that as someone with a Captain N'ghathrod deck. I feel like a lot of people have convinced themselves that mill is really strong because they felt bad getting their powerful cards milled, and that sticks in their minds more than whether the mill deck actually won the game or not.
Mill has historically struggled to take out multiple players with that being the primary strategy. You gotta think back further to when people were using Oona and Phenax as mill commanders. But even then Anowon and Cap' aren't trying to win via mill, they're taking advantage of milling to fuel another gameplan. I have a dedicated mill deck already, using Mimeoplasm, and even focusing heavily on the theme, I find I still typically need to use my commander to knock at least one or two players out with commander damage because churning through that many cards from your opponents is very difficult.
Suprised Deadeye Navigator didnt come up. same with a cheeky Food Chain and 2 creatures for the combo win (assuming your opponents have move non lond cards in library than life)
If you want to see how we are doing MOAR SCIENCE, MOAR OF THE TIME, click here:
th-cam.com/video/GU4PfMC4WbE/w-d-xo.html
Consuming Aberration isn't actually considered mill, so even if you hit good cards off of it, things like Mirelurk Queen, Tato Farmer, and The Master won't "see" those cards hit the graveyard.
Yeah. But it’s still good to have in the deck as a big beater when all else fails lol
I'm having trouble concentrating on what Vince is saying bc the music he's using is shared by Nerd Cookies and I find myself thinking "what does this have to do with Dune? Right, this is Vince and it's Fallout MtG. Wouldn't a Dune set be fun? We already have ornithopters. What would a Still Suit equipment card be for? Dehydration counters could be a thing. Or "Water" artifact tokens. A "Thumper' could tap and sacrifice to put 'worm' creature card from your library..." So, I'm sure this was a great video, Vince. Thanks for making it. 🙂
Water could be similar to blood tokens.
They could reprint panglacial worm with sandworm art, also sandworm convergence lol
What is blud wafflin about?
I appreciate how even the "non-budget" options barely ever scrape the 10$ mark here, good job!
It's weird how landfall fits in so well. There's proliferate, mill, +1 counters, and draw all under the sultai umbrella. I didn't think I'd be building it landfall but it looks like I may be going that route
This is the first video ive watched of yours and i thoroughly enjoyed it!
Most of these are misses. Selvala will rarely proc as your creatures start small and grow, consuming abberation isn't mill, Thassa ruins your +1/+1 counter generation, and more. From a battle-hardened mothman enthusiast, instead try:
Non Budget - Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider (double counters and rads)
Walking Ballista (assault automatron to stay in theme with fallout)
Glen Elendra (Insane in this deck)
Mesmeric Orb (each mill is a seperate event, mothman can become lethal in one round)
Rise from the Dark Realms
The ozolith
Altar of the brood
Ripples of potential
Cavern of souls
A mandatory budget addition: Cold-Eyed Selkie
Thanks for the videos, these are fun to watch and would love to see more of your thoughts on your upgrades
The most fun wincon of all is Nuclear Fallout once you have one of the classic infinite mana generators, hitting everyone for 100 Rad counters and guaranteeing they will all die on upkeep in turn order. Dropping a massive literal nuke that kills the entire table including you but winning because you die last is the most thematic thing possible.
And the only thing funnier than that is when one player triggers their Hermit Druid in response to the upkeep trigger, ditching just enough of their library to survive on two and kill you in their turn. Wild plays make great games.
It’s triggers after draw step tho?
You build Mothman for proliferate. I build it to best craft Throne of the Grim Captain. We are not the same.
I know this isn't the goal of the deck, but with this much proliferation available, Prologue to Phyresis could be a nasty backup win condition. Especially with Radstorm in the deck.
I find it weird that almost nobody mention cephalid illusionist when upgrading this deck, even though it can easily mill massive amounts of cards from your deck and make itself and mothman huge.
Same, I'm definitely playing a Cephalid Breakfast package in my deck
Edit: I just realized you don't even need shuko because Mothman feeds it itself wow thats even better than I thought, still gonna play Trinket Mage to find Altar of the Brood though lol
Nesting Ground is a fun land option for decks that like putting counters on permanents. This can help you control the power of something a Fathom Mage or Gyre Sage to get more cards/mana. It can even let you move the indestructible counter from Tekuthal onto stuff that really shouldn't have it. Karn's Bastion is a recurring way to proliferate on a land. Park Hights Maverick I feel should have got an honorable mention. It proliferating on hitting face or dying and being hard to block mean's an opponent has to burn something like Swords to Plowshares to make you get 0 value from it.
Nesting Ground is already in the precon.
I like Creeping Renaissance. If you mill it, it triggers Mothman and you can flash it back to recur a bunch of stuff.
I personally REALLY love mind crank in this deck. It gets stupid with rad counters
I wish I could afford one of these, this deck was built for me. My favorite colors, with a spin on some of my favorite mechanics with a poison counter like radiation, which also mills, and the deck is mutation and disease flavored.
You were correct, I did in fact enjoy this video. And there were a lot of cards I wasn't aware of that I'll look into. Good video, always fun to see mill treated well.
I am digging this deck breakdown/buildup. I really want to see what you bring with the other two
I would absolutely love a video like this for the Dogmeat deck!!!
It’d be great to see you build a commander deck from what is present in all of the precons.
I enjoy these videos and the dig at competitive EDH players.
I've got a mimeoplasm deck - pairing consuming aberration's counters with a feral ghoul's body and sacrificing it to something like an altar of dementia, or just to use as a beater would absolutely drench your opponents in Rad Counters
Some good missed (currently) budget cards for this with proliferation would be Thrummingbird and Roalesk, Apex Hybrid. Really cool to provide ideas on how people can improve upon their precon and still have it play with the Rad counters.
I'd love to see the other gets some love too. Quite interested to see your take on upgrading those lists, especially Caesar.
When I played Moth out of the box, I was impressed with how well it slowly chipped away at my opponents and grew my dudes. Like we're all in this nuclear miasma and it's making them weak and me strong. So, I don't have as many proliferate things as suggested here but I do have lots of little weirdos like Permeating Mass and those Rad counter zombies to just... exist in the wasteland. They get bigger and play surprisingly good defense. Trying to make -1/-1 counters actually work as removal isn't going so well, but we're trying.
I bought this deck to turn it into a Szadek, Lord of Secrets secret commander mill voltron proliferate deck so I'm glad other people are focusing on the mill aspect.
Thank you for doing this video!
I'm quite pleased with the depth rad counters add to mill strategies. Like with the Science precon, I'm digging in the 99 for various goodies for my existing decks, especially my Nikara//Yannik blink+recursion abzan counters brew.
Phenax could be considered a better version of altar of dementia since it can be a repeatable effect of milling your opponents. Imagine tapping consuming Aberration to one shot an opponent in milling, having it live or untapping it with Aphetto Alchemist, milling another opponent, and being left one on one with who you’ve decided you can beat based on the board state.
I used "The Master, transcendent" as my commander and built as more of a self-mill reanimator strategy keeping only the cards that gave me rad counters and/or myself and my opponents. If it only gave my opponents rad counters I cut it.
If you get the rhythm going you can mill through your library several times and kill everyone with Konrad triggers. It's very fun!
8:33 correction here. Consuming Aberration DOESN'T mill cards (since that is actually a keyworded term now) and as such does not trigger Mirelurk Queen, nor does it trigger the second ability from the Mothman to distribute out +1/+1 counters. This card never was errataed to state that the opponent mills the revealed cards, they simply put all revealed cards into their graveyard.
I think this card and cards like it will be tripping up a lot of players, myself included when I first started brewing around Mothman, and you're not the first content creator I've seen making this mistake. It's still handy as a huge beater and playing into a mill theme if that's what you're going for in the deck, though.
Oh shit. You are right. Annoyed I missed it. I would love them to go back and update Consuming Aberation and friends to say "mill".
For another budget option, look at Kagha, Shadow Archdruid. Because rads mill you during your turn, with Kagha you’re effectively impulse drawing one of them instead, and can actively mill you a few more cards if you need to.
Would love to hear about the other 2
Bloodchief Ascension and Mindcrank are amazing in this precon too!
So many jank cards to cut from the precon. Rad +1+1 theme seems strong from my 2 games with the deck so far
This what I meant I wanted on the other video. This has interaction with mill and creatures that benefit, it's not just decking your opponents out.
Altar of the brood and Mindcrank are good adds as well!
My King, it has nothing to do with proliferate or +1/+1 counters, but Syr Konrad + mill just destroys opponents
Probably Bloodchief Ascension more in flavor since it at least has counters to proliferate, also it triggers on all cards going to the graveyard, not just creatures.
Put both in.
I'd also highly recommend Zellix and Sidisi too, the token really rack up especially with Zellix counting all players
I have Teleportation Circle, Conjurer's Closet and Thassa, Deep Dwelling in so many decks, flicker for life!
Solid suggestions. Surprised you didn't put Bruvac in the non-budget options - when you double the mill from the rad counters, they can hit double the non-lands and take the corresponding amount of damage even though they don't have that many counters to remove
Yeah, I was shortlisting stuff and Bruvac felt like, stone face obvious I guess?
But then again I suggest Sanctum Weaver in the Aura path for the Voltron Dog Meat - and observe that it's so obvious, so maybe I am just an silly man haha
6:32 back in highschool we called the mechanic Grind because of Mind Grind. Man it was really annoying to have both Mill and Grind be main mechanics of Dimir in RTR block and neither of them being keyworded.
Some more recommendations, if you really want to Grow the Moth, play Altar of the Brood and Mindcrank. And if you want more value of the mill, while also hating on your opponents creatures going to yard, Syr Konrad, the Grim and Undead Alchemist
Danny pink is so good in my Galadriel, light of valinor decks since one of her alliance triggers is put a +1/+1 on all your creatures so you can just use that alliance trigger when he etbs and draw equal to the number of creatures you control. Then this can be done every turn for all the card draw
So, one of the owners at my local LGS had a proxy of this guy pre'release. The deck is a menace because he'll fire off a burst of 40 or 50 rads on everyone, watch the turns rotate, then take the match.
Is Rad counter mill good; yes, very much so. Was mill bad before- even in commander? No, just slower and it required you to be willing to cause some sadness as the other people's decks go brrr. Mothman is fine, but he didn't save mill so much as give it an "I win button" option.
A burst of 40-50 rad counters? Uhhh in a turn?
@thatepicwizardguy Yes; Proliferation with an absolute stack of mana or looping land etb's fueling it. Then he passes, we die, and the game ends.
neat guide, would love to see your thoughts on Hail Caesar
Noted!
I made one upgrade that made my playgroup hate me with this deck:
I took out Strength Bobblehead and put in Sage of Hours.
Yeah I ended up getting infinite turns. I took it out, but will keep it handy in the case I end up at a tournament.
This deck will be my excuse to run Bruvac and Terisian Mindbreaker
I will suggest altar of the brood
The way i see mothman is either do a few big mill triggers, or do as many little mill triggers as possible.
If you do 6 indevidiuals noneland card mill triggers for mothman, its gonna put 6 times a single +1/+1 counter on a creature, that can be the sane or not.
Where as if youd mill 6 noneland cards once youll put a single +1/+1 counter on 6 creatures
But cool suggestions anyway
Hell yeah! More deck tec!
Just a curiously posed question, wouldn't too much card draw in a mill/self mill deck possibly cause your to kill yourself due to mill and card draw? I've never played a deck like this before...
Thanks!
Absolutely. So you look to win off of Lab Man or Thoracle, or to recyle your deck with Gae's Blessing/Eldrazi Shuffle in effects and similar.
or just win before you deck yourself haha
@PleasantKenobi interesting this isn't a stat I've tried yet but I'm kinda leaning towards going for it
Mindcrank is pretty good in here too.
Love the radroach ❤
So apparently there are people saying folks should cut the rad counter cards? I didn't buy the deck, but I've ordered singles, including every single rad counter card.
Mill has been pretty decent for a while.
I'm leaning more towards reanimator rather than proliferate
The master should have given mutants banding
Wotc is a bunch of cowards!
Just got my first W with this deck upgraded, had a 28/28 Mowu, Loyal companion as my Dogmeat stand-in killing a player XD
When was mill ever not good? Anowan and Captain N’grotha?
Mill is only good in slow, grindy, low power pods
Mill has never been a very good wincon in commander, and I say that as someone with a Captain N'ghathrod deck. I feel like a lot of people have convinced themselves that mill is really strong because they felt bad getting their powerful cards milled, and that sticks in their minds more than whether the mill deck actually won the game or not.
Mill has historically struggled to take out multiple players with that being the primary strategy. You gotta think back further to when people were using Oona and Phenax as mill commanders. But even then Anowon and Cap' aren't trying to win via mill, they're taking advantage of milling to fuel another gameplan.
I have a dedicated mill deck already, using Mimeoplasm, and even focusing heavily on the theme, I find I still typically need to use my commander to knock at least one or two players out with commander damage because churning through that many cards from your opponents is very difficult.
Will Tekuthal* quadruple proliferation with Agent Frank Horrigan?
Happy to see Consuming Abberation in here. Probably my favorite cards of all time.
The Walking Dead Secret Lair was the end of the golden age of Magic.
what about underworld recon?
Suprised Deadeye Navigator didnt come up. same with a cheeky Food Chain and 2 creatures for the combo win (assuming your opponents have move non lond cards in library than life)
Why not any lands that enter with counters or can get counters
Dice on my lands annoy me.
Please do necron precon ?? 😢😢
I like playing Thassa; Deep Dweeber with creature stealing effects, flicker their stuff into your control 'permanently'
Where is your final Mothfield list??
Another banger
is mill good in edh? short answer is no, long aswer is no but in that office meme style screaming into infinity
I am praying 🙏 on a “House always wins 🎰🃏” Mr. House commander deck. Please consider making it for by true gambler in me.
Why, why throne of geth? The deck don't have alot of artifacts
Play. Nuka-Cola. Play. Manufactor.
@@PleasantKenobi understandable
I don't think put into a graveyard counts as mill😢
Add some graveyard hate
tato farmer to steal your opponents wastelands?
Radical
2:35 energy too, especially since the stience deck now has that coming back around as well as the upcoming modern horizon deck
Haha nice
I'm not a fan of the rads. I love mills but not with this deck. Scarab God is better. Drains everyone, scry and exiles/copies all graveyards.