After watching a few other videos on Madison Li Energy deck I concur this type of deck is such a durdling wet dream of a deck. LOL I love that you mentioned Throne of Geth. If anyone likes this deck try some of these other all stars I've found for this deck: - Master Transmuter (I rarely see anyone use this card anymore) - A bunch of 2 mana rocks + a couple mana reducers= 1 mana artifact splurge - Cybermen (clone them for double Myriad) with Spark Double, Sculpting Steel or Cursed Mirror - Make more Thopter tokens with Sai, Loyal Apprentice or Thopter Spy network - Voltaic Pummeler, my beloved, is a must in this deck. All you need is 13 energy: 1 energy for Madison Li activation giving Pummeler 2 power Trample, Haste now activate the Pummeler ability 4 times= 2x2=4x2=8x2=16x2=32= The pummeling is REAL! - Lizard Blade, Embercleave - Don't sleep on the Behemoth of vault 0 - Lae'zel Vlaakiths champion - Unwinding clock for more durdling I've had no issues with making energy with this deck now, my record is 30+ energy. Shout out to Onlylands'' Unlimited Power'' deck video for the great ideas, they really helped put the idea that this deck is an ETB engine into focus :P
Definitely here for more videos like this one. You actually covered changes to this deck I haven't seen with other content creators and it gave me some ideas for stuff that I hadn't thought of. I really hope that you make ones for the other decks, and do this more in the future too.
Crystal Shard is so good - I love when somebody taps out when I have it up lol - if I don't need to rescue something before my upkeep I get to boomerang something
Can confirm. I don't have any sort of Fallout nostaligia, but the way the wise mothman works is different enough from any other deck I have that it's fun.
I love Liberty Prime so much. I am starting to learn that I really enjoy commander damage centric commanders. Though this has the added bonus of being a jeskai artifact deck and that is inherently strong in a lot of different iterations as well.
Crystal Shard is such a nice card. I remember my friend played it against me in his maelstrom wanderer deck back in the day. I recently put it in some of my decks and it's been nice
Mmmmm honestly this video has made me realise how much Kaladesh block stuff i have lying around and now i'm kinda tempted to get this deck so i can shove all of my"old" energy stuff into it!
I like this sort of Deck tech vid. Most the other ones i see are too specific and hand holdy - this suggestion style format feels much more casual and conversational and allows me to come up with my own ideas without feeling like i've just followed a guide online. Great Vid!
friggin loved this vid, i was on the fence on buying this specific precon, but with you showing this, i feel as though u convinced me to get it. it sounds like so much fun now
If you're in white and doing energy shenanigans I always recommend Aethergeode Miner. If you produce 2 energy whenever something ETBs, you now have infinite flickers. If you make more than that, you now have infinite energy. Decoction Module, Aetherstorm Roc, Panharmonicon type effects, artifact/creature clone effects. You can also make infinite thopters with Whirler Virtuoso if you have infinite energy, or if a creature entering produces at least 3 energy.
Surprised you didn't mention the Vending Machine/Manufactor/Krark-Clan Ironworks combo - the clues don't have to tap to activate so you can KCI the foods to trigger the vending machine and use the mana to pop the clues - draw your whole deck, have infinite colorless mana, and all the tapped treasure tokens your heart (or Magda if you don't want to pick your whole deck up) desires
Probably because the most expensive card recommended here is just over ten USD and KCI is over forty USD. That and everyone already knows KCI is broken, even before this new combo.
I think you are right. I had sac outlets in my draft, but blanked on KCI on my first draft and pass, and then cut them for time. Think I need to make a short.
@@jman667755 I'm pretty sure a lot of the decks that want this combo are already running KCI, but yeah would be nice to see a reprint in like MH3 or something to knock the price down a bit
Really enjoyed this video. I'm not a fan of commander, but (as usual) felt like you brought some unique ideas in an interesting and entertaining way! Thanks, PK. 💯
I like seeing these for strategies and cards I've likely missed. I'm currently planning on building one or more of the white, red, and/or white/red commanders.
I'd love to see you cover the mutant deck. The Wise Mothman has got to be one of my new favorite decks to play now. Sultai mill has never been better imo
Which came first, this video or the top cards on edhrec? Just a thought, but if I was content creating deck upgrades I would start the video by acknowledging the front page of the commander's edhrec page, and maybe even talk about some of the key cards and why they're on there. but I would try to suggest as many "hidden gems" like crystal shard that others might miss. love your work and your beard, and keep spewing that content girl!
I've absolutely avoided EDH Rec and other Upgrade guides for these myself. I think its valuable to know what your peers are doing; but im instead trying to give "my first thoughts on the direction" That said I watched one yesterday as this was uploading that was saying to cut Nuka-Cola, and that inspired the thumbnail.
“All will be one” is an excellent card if you build more energy focused, as energy is a counter and will often trigger it in intervals of 1 often allowing you to dictate the damage across the board. Probably will need to add several counter spells/recursion to protect the cast of it though.
I've purchased the Ceasar deck, and have swapped out Ruthless Radrat, Legate Lanius, Survivor's Med Kit, Stolen Strategy, Impassioned Orator, Sierra, Kellogg, The Nipton Lottery, and Mr House with Isshin Two Heavens as One, Farwell, Alesha Who Smiles at Death, Mirkwood Bats, Pacifism, Commander Mustard, For The Emporer! and Rootborn Defences. First ever deck so I'm super buzzed
Bit obvious, but if you do wanna be a bit combo-y, Intruder Alarm is always great for any {t} commander that can have a creature enter off that ability.
Forensic Gadeteer lets you get even more clue tokens, makes them and food cheaper to crack, and lets the activated abilities of the bobbleheads actually be somewhat mana efficient with only two of them. Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh does something similar and if you are including Throne of Geth can quickly fire his ult off to give you all the card draw. Since the commander has built in reanimation Urza, Powerstone Prodigy can give you draw, ramp, and targets to reanimate. Sai, Master Thoperist lets you sac artifacts for card draw and reanimation targets. And for anyone who might have started playing with these commander decks and happens across this comment, Thosand-Year Elixir, Rings of Brightearth, Lithoform Engine, and Illusionist's Bracers all let your commander do her thing more and/or faster. But all four are closer to the not-budget side of upgrades.
Curious why not the whole module loop (Animation, Decoction, fabrication)? It buffs your creatures whe nyou get energy, pay one to make a servo, get an energy from a creature entering, repeat
the mutant deck is hecka fun, just has a jank mana base in the default box. I think the Energy deck is probably the hardest to wrap my head around, because I just don't have a good feeling for how much energy I really would be floating in any given situation.
Academy Manufactor is a replacement effect so I think you get the tokens untapped, similarly to how they don't get the special effects of the Shelob tokens or similar
No you are misunderstanding what part is being replaced in both instances. Nuka-Cola Machine says "Whenever you sacrifice a Food, create a tapped Treasure token." Academy Manufactor effectively replaces the word "Treasure" with "Food, Clue, and Treasure." making it read "Whenever you sacrifice a Food, create tapped Food, Clue, and Treasure tokens." Similar rule if you have something like Parallel Lives making you create two tapped treasures. In the case of Shelob all Academy Manufactor is seeing is you making a Food, and will therefore replace EVERYTHING Shelob is doing with you making a normal Food, Clue, and Treasure token. Same thing happens if you make a token copy of something like Gingerbrute, you don't get the Gingerbrute but you do get a Food, Clue, and Treasure. In other words if you have Manufactor in your Shelob deck it's actually more of an anti-combo and you should consider removing it. Or you get to point this out to someone else in your play group that does this.
Aether Roc, Gontis heart, assembly line/whirler rouge. Infinite creatures. Add reckless fire weaver, or an impact tremors type ability, and GGs boys. That’s one of my combos. I’m thinking of making it more a Jeskai Energy and running Liberty Prime as the Commander. Dynavolt, iscocron scepter, dramatic reversal let’s you win with the tower. Age of Innovation is a good one. When an artifact/artificer enters, you may pay 1. When you do, you get 2 energy. Pay 6 energy; sac it, draw 6 cards
I still have a goofy Atraxa energy deck that's terrible, but I've found that those Vivid lands were suddenly worth playing: they come in tapped, but proliferating nonsense means they always tap for all colors. Great for budgets too.
It feels to me that there was a fifth deck in the works, and they just instead decided to mush like a handful of cards from that deck into the other four.
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck runs both decoction module and crystal shard (and erratic portal). Just to guarantee that I can play my commander again even if my opponents won't kill it. And sometimes it lets me cast the wanderer twice in one turn...good times.
How dare you say that the Mutant Deck and my beautiful Wise Mothman isn't the best deck I haven't played any of these decks but I have decided to have an opinion to drive engagement because your deck tech videos are fun and deserve to do well
LOL Each game I have played against someone's Mutant deck has resulted in them dying from their own radiation counters meanwhile Science! marches on accepting a little Radiation for the benefits of a better tomorrow least that is what Vault-tec told me to write :P
Please do the other decks! I've watched so many videos on all of the decks. Most miss the core points the science deck sets out to do. The only other person I've seen hit the mark has been Kyle Hill, though he focused on the artifact side more. I learned how proliferate works on a player in this too! I watched a lot of play videos with people testing the decks and everyone got the proliferate players wrong. They all picked and chose how they wanted it to apply to the energy/rad counters, and never looked at how it's supposed to target a player and ALL their counters.
I like these types of videos and feel they may help draw in more of an audience from another demographic that may feel like you never noticed them before. *shrugs* hopefully it does well though
It's not that 3 mana rocks aren't competitive enough, it's just that you are better off with mind stone in most cases. If you commander is 5 or more mana, sure play the 3 mana rock. But If it's 4 or less, the three mana rocks don't line up well (most of the time). And if you are going to pick one pick midnight clock, and not garbage like the lockets or clue stones
Comment at the end was a little off putting... Wizards didn't deem you important enough for free stuff? lol. The deck lists came out weeks ago. There's no reason you need free influencer paper to make an upgrade list.
I wanted to play with the decks before commenting on them where possible. And yes, I wasn't considered important enough as an influencer or voice to get sent the Fallout product. That is how it felt, and how it looks. If you find that off putting, I don't know what to tell you. Preview content is much better than late to the party content.
It'd be nice if they made in universe versions of the universe beyond stuff cause some of it is really cool but i'm just not a big fan of the non-mtg universe look, just a bit off-putting to me
Vince I've considered you to be a wise man and a bastion of sanity in the community but today i am horribly offended and now reconsidering everything i thought i knew about the milkiest man in esports...you are going to sit there with a straight face and claim the science precon is the coolest deck when MOTHMAN is sitting right there! for shame vince
Where are you at with the whole casual VS competitive commander discourse? I think that just not playing with someone because you're assuming your automatically going to loose without bothering to look into why that might be the case is sort of childish personally and kind of just sucks for the person playing the "perceived cedh deck". I'm open to discussion on the topic tho, but I'm not promising to change my mind or anything like that.
Better to have that "Rule 0" discussion. If they are running lots of fast mana into tutors to infinite combos on turn 4... I'd rather not waste my time.
@@MaleusMaleficarum (this is long so there's tldr at the bottom. It sounds more blunt and standoffish tho, fair warning) I get where you're coming from but even the most competitive decks have trouble winning early unless the stars align. This is particially because it's a singleton format with 99/98 card decks and partially because of that players opponents and the interaction they can bring to the table. That interaction is split realatively evenly throughout the color pile. Granted certain colors are worse off than others, but that doesn't default to those colors always losing anymore. If this was still early-mid 2010's it would be a different story, but is not colors are way more well rounded nowadays. Even mono colored and casual decks can absolutely rinse competative pods because those competative decks tend to be really fragile. Proxies are widely accepted, even crappy ones and they're even largely allowed in tournaments for specifically edh. So not running cards that stop you from loosing to either a combo or a value oriented deck is kind of your own fault. It isn't really fair to expect someone to compromise on their own gameplan to compensate for your shortcomings as a player. Cedh is a really grindy format right now, largely in part because of cards typically deemed okay in casual pods. The name of the game is advantage peices and hyper specifc stax peices. The key words there are definetly hyper specific, yeah a dranith magistrate or collector ouph might suck because it stop your commander or artifacts, but it doesnt lock people out of the game in casual like maybe an Armagedon affect or contamination might which nobody really plays because those cards are bad and feel bad to play. Like a table full of people that dont heavily rely on tutors are not going to care about your graftdiggers cage or opposition agent. Worse case scenario, you steal like a cultivate or something and the opposition agent SHOULD be removed. Again sometimes the stars allign and nobody has it, but if your pod is running an appropriate ammount of interaction then a single 3/2 wouldn't really be the end of the world. If 3+ whole ass people can't answer a single spell or creature regardless of if it's part of a combo or not, you can't really place the blame on whoever played the card or series of cards. There are combos and things that should be banned, primarily thoracle not because its impossible to interact with tho. Rnd not doing their job isn't really the cedh communities fault, and that is its own issue that we can talk about and possbly find some common ground if you want. Rule zero discussions are typically a bad idea. They are often ineffective because casual players respond to cedh by metaphorically burrying their head in the sand, so casual players dont really understand whats good and use sweeping generalized rules to try and dictate whats okay to play in this game. Like ive never heard ad nasuem get brought up in a rule 0 conversation and its legitimately one of the strongest singular cards in cedh. Even casual players can be inconvenienced by rule 0 discussions and expecting someone to change a chunk of their deck on the fly for your benefit is selfish and isnt really a fair thing to ask of someone. Theres no reason why someone needs to be reasonable about their rule 0 requirements. Like what if someone got washed by an like idk an animar deck or something like that and just now eternally refuses to play with or cooperate with someone running that commander regardless of what their 99 actually contains? Do you think it's fair that person would shut down a potential 4 player pod that could of had a fun game because of their own biases? Now imagine how shitty that feels, but ad in the stress and anxiety that comes with it just being one person that effectively singled out and banned from playing a game like its elementary school. Finally you thinking a game that happens to be quick and desisive because the stars aligned or because of your or other people's lackluster deckbuilding choices as a "waist of time" is strictly your opinion and the same thing could easily be said about games that stretch out a reeaally long time without anything impactful happening besides just value shenanigans. Except unlike a game that lasts a half hour to an hour (possibly more) there's nothing stopping players from shuffling up and starting over after a quick game besides those players own opinions about this game and what's okay to play or not. TLDR: Cedh is slower than you think, you would know that if you bothered tollerating it. Casual decks can absolutely sweep cedh tables because of the inherent downsides that comes with having a super focused deck in singleton formats. If you consistently loose to something specific then it's because of solely your own and your pod-mates own shortcomings as players especially considering proxies eliminate any barrier of entry. Rule 0's discussion are unreasonable, inaccurate, it can affect people who play casually, and can definitely be extremely unreasonable based on one or two players biases. Expecting someone to change their gameplan because of your personal shortcomings and opinions is childish elementary school behavior and it's a selfish thing to subject other people too. A "cedh player" just wants to play a game with you, and you cant expect them to respect your wishes when you clearly don't respect their wishes. Finally getting mad because you lot a game, or the game didn't pan out how you intended is just as much your fault as it is the other player's and its the antithesis of what "casual" actually means.
@@B1ngusD1ngus dude. Your points are well articulated. That said... I'm not judging someone for wanting to run CEDH... I've seen CEDH decks get torn apart by precons with removal. It's far more about how I enjoy playing. I don't enjoy being in a pod that's trying to combo off on turn 4. I'm not going to ask somebody to change their deck... but I'm also REALLY unlikely to play them again if all they brought was something trying to win with Th-oracle.
@@MaleusMaleficarum I mean your more than able to make that decision. I still believe that refusing to participate in a game with someone for that reason in particular is kinda shitty, but idk. I personally wouldnt sit down at a fnm and concede a round becase im assuming i won't have fun, regardless if the event was really casual or competative. If I was a parent talking to my kid, I'd probably say "you can decide if you don't want to play with someone, but you should at least give them the benefit of the doubt and try, who knows you might have fun". Just keep in mind it can get shitty if the person who wants to play a "competative" deck like that is like "outnumbered" by the casual players. I get that sounds cringe but the conversation can quickly change from, "no thanks i personally dont play in this pod" to "no you cannot play with us, we do not like playing with you" and it really feels like you're getting singled out for kinda crappy reasons honestly. Like I said the barrier for entry is free, and running an appropriate amount of interaction is something you really want to be doing in casual anyways, tailoring that interaction to be more versatile that a bunch of board wipes can really make a pet deck better. You have a point with not liking thoracle tho. Like I said that combo is pretty broken, i didnt mention it im my comment before but intuition being unnbaned doesn't make any sense at all. I wish rnd would just do their job because it could help mitigate the gap between casual and competitive. Like rnd says that they refuse to ban for cedh but i gaurentee if something is good enough to be considered for banning in cedh then its probably a kitchen table killing machine, so to speak. Also they banned flash so claiming they dont ban for comp. doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me. My next few paragraphs are kind of uninimportant to the points above/common sense stuff if youre familiar with comp. so feel free to skip them. Thoracle is the cheapest win in the format in argueably the 2 best colors, it costs only 3 mana and its not vulnerable to straight up removal. Intuition gives multiple decks a 1 card win condition but it's like 10+mana to pull off. Still there's no phesable reason that gifts ungiven should be banned and a card that does basically the same thing at half the Mana isn't. The next fastest 2 card combo that wins on its own is probably dualcaster+twinflame at 6 mana or underworld breach+brainfreeze at 4 mana plus setup. Dualcaster+twinflame is vulnerable to removal. Nobody even plays dualcast+ twinflame because it's poorly situated with dranith magistrate, rule of law and such. Also underworld breach+brain freeze gets to abuse intuition pretty easily but it looses to any sorta graveyard hate and non-creature removal, so it's a lot more vulnerable that thoacle. Also if you Opposition agent a cedh deck's intuition they probably can't even win anymore after that because you can steal their win con and any backup they might have. A lot of people argue that kinnan is the best deck in the format because of how slow games tend to play out in practice. Those lists are really close to casual shells already. It plays tons of cards that you wouldnt expect. Consecrated sphinx, nezuhal, seedborn muse, ect. It's a cool list. If someone wanted to get into comp. I'd recommend either diversifying the interaction in their pet deck, or trying out kinnan.
Honestly I really appreciate having someone make upgrade guides in a shorter video. Feels like you actually respect our time.
After watching a few other videos on Madison Li Energy deck I concur this type of deck is such a durdling wet dream of a deck. LOL I love that you mentioned Throne of Geth. If anyone likes this deck try some of these other all stars I've found for this deck:
- Master Transmuter (I rarely see anyone use this card anymore)
- A bunch of 2 mana rocks + a couple mana reducers= 1 mana artifact splurge
- Cybermen (clone them for double Myriad) with Spark Double, Sculpting Steel or Cursed Mirror
- Make more Thopter tokens with Sai, Loyal Apprentice or Thopter Spy network
- Voltaic Pummeler, my beloved, is a must in this deck. All you need is 13 energy: 1 energy for Madison Li activation giving Pummeler 2 power Trample, Haste now activate the Pummeler ability 4 times= 2x2=4x2=8x2=16x2=32= The pummeling is REAL!
- Lizard Blade, Embercleave
- Don't sleep on the Behemoth of vault 0
- Lae'zel Vlaakiths champion
- Unwinding clock for more durdling
I've had no issues with making energy with this deck now, my record is 30+ energy. Shout out to Onlylands'' Unlimited Power'' deck video for the great ideas, they really helped put the idea that this deck is an ETB engine into focus :P
Please please pleeeeeeaaaase do a deck tech on Mr. House! I'm so excited for him and to build around him!
All the doublers possible 👍
Also, roll d20s, if possible
Definitely here for more videos like this one. You actually covered changes to this deck I haven't seen with other content creators and it gave me some ideas for stuff that I hadn't thought of. I really hope that you make ones for the other decks, and do this more in the future too.
Crystal Shard is so good - I love when somebody taps out when I have it up lol - if I don't need to rescue something before my upkeep I get to boomerang something
Id love to hear about all of the decks! Unfortunately, i dont have Fall Out nostalgia, but these decks look super cool regarless
Can confirm. I don't have any sort of Fallout nostaligia, but the way the wise mothman works is different enough from any other deck I have that it's fun.
I love Liberty Prime so much. I am starting to learn that I really enjoy commander damage centric commanders. Though this has the added bonus of being a jeskai artifact deck and that is inherently strong in a lot of different iterations as well.
Crystal Shard is such a nice card.
I remember my friend played it against me in his maelstrom wanderer deck back in the day.
I recently put it in some of my decks and it's been nice
Mmmmm honestly this video has made me realise how much Kaladesh block stuff i have lying around and now i'm kinda tempted to get this deck so i can shove all of my"old" energy stuff into it!
I like this style, and especially because it's quite quick and to the point. Make more please.
Hell yeah, Teleportation Circle was one of my first thoughts when I started building this deck, I love that card waaayyyy more than I should
I like this sort of Deck tech vid. Most the other ones i see are too specific and hand holdy - this suggestion style format feels much more casual and conversational and allows me to come up with my own ideas without feeling like i've just followed a guide online. Great Vid!
Was watching this about an hour and a half ago and it went private. Glad to be able to finish it.
friggin loved this vid, i was on the fence on buying this specific precon, but with you showing this, i feel as though u convinced me to get it. it sounds like so much fun now
If you're in white and doing energy shenanigans I always recommend Aethergeode Miner. If you produce 2 energy whenever something ETBs, you now have infinite flickers. If you make more than that, you now have infinite energy. Decoction Module, Aetherstorm Roc, Panharmonicon type effects, artifact/creature clone effects. You can also make infinite thopters with Whirler Virtuoso if you have infinite energy, or if a creature entering produces at least 3 energy.
Would love to see the other decks. This is great.
I like this format of a video. Quick guide, to the point. Not 1hour guide with deck overwiev, just some advice on what to add.
Surprised you didn't mention the Vending Machine/Manufactor/Krark-Clan Ironworks combo - the clues don't have to tap to activate so you can KCI the foods to trigger the vending machine and use the mana to pop the clues - draw your whole deck, have infinite colorless mana, and all the tapped treasure tokens your heart (or Magda if you don't want to pick your whole deck up) desires
Probably because the most expensive card recommended here is just over ten USD and KCI is over forty USD. That and everyone already knows KCI is broken, even before this new combo.
I think you are right. I had sac outlets in my draft, but blanked on KCI on my first draft and pass, and then cut them for time.
Think I need to make a short.
@@jman667755 I'm pretty sure a lot of the decks that want this combo are already running KCI, but yeah would be nice to see a reprint in like MH3 or something to knock the price down a bit
@@cedarbobedar7223KCI is banned in Modern…
Really enjoyed this video. I'm not a fan of commander, but (as usual) felt like you brought some unique ideas in an interesting and entertaining way! Thanks, PK. 💯
I like seeing these for strategies and cards I've likely missed. I'm currently planning on building one or more of the white, red, and/or white/red commanders.
I'd love to see you cover the mutant deck. The Wise Mothman has got to be one of my new favorite decks to play now. Sultai mill has never been better imo
Which came first, this video or the top cards on edhrec? Just a thought, but if I was content creating deck upgrades I would start the video by acknowledging the front page of the commander's edhrec page, and maybe even talk about some of the key cards and why they're on there. but I would try to suggest as many "hidden gems" like crystal shard that others might miss. love your work and your beard, and keep spewing that content girl!
I've absolutely avoided EDH Rec and other Upgrade guides for these myself.
I think its valuable to know what your peers are doing; but im instead trying to give "my first thoughts on the direction"
That said I watched one yesterday as this was uploading that was saying to cut Nuka-Cola, and that inspired the thumbnail.
We definitely need the other upgrade videos!
Coming soon! Just released the mutant one!
@@PleasantKenobi Yes I just saw that one. That's the one I bought, so will be watching soon!
Kenobi I would kill for more precon upgrades from you dude
Wow! I thought it was good. Giving options to have a fun time playing the deck. Keep it up sir.
Would love to see the Mutant Menace upgrade guide. Feel like there is a lot of stuff there that could be switched out to maximize the rad counters.
love these upgrades! I think it would be useful if you could put a list of all the cards mentioned in the video in a comment or in the description
“All will be one” is an excellent card if you build more energy focused, as energy is a counter and will often trigger it in intervals of 1 often allowing you to dictate the damage across the board. Probably will need to add several counter spells/recursion to protect the cast of it though.
🔥😁🔥 Really gave me a lot of great ideas! Thank you 😁 hope you do more if these 😁🤙
For the untap synergies you could also run Unwinding Clock.
Would love to see your take on the mutants precon
I've purchased the Ceasar deck, and have swapped out Ruthless Radrat, Legate Lanius, Survivor's Med Kit, Stolen Strategy, Impassioned Orator, Sierra, Kellogg, The Nipton Lottery, and Mr House with Isshin Two Heavens as One, Farwell, Alesha Who Smiles at Death, Mirkwood Bats, Pacifism, Commander Mustard, For The Emporer! and Rootborn Defences. First ever deck so I'm super buzzed
Dope video
would love to see gameplay as well!!
Bit obvious, but if you do wanna be a bit combo-y, Intruder Alarm is always great for any {t} commander that can have a creature enter off that ability.
Forensic Gadeteer lets you get even more clue tokens, makes them and food cheaper to crack, and lets the activated abilities of the bobbleheads actually be somewhat mana efficient with only two of them. Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh does something similar and if you are including Throne of Geth can quickly fire his ult off to give you all the card draw. Since the commander has built in reanimation Urza, Powerstone Prodigy can give you draw, ramp, and targets to reanimate. Sai, Master Thoperist lets you sac artifacts for card draw and reanimation targets.
And for anyone who might have started playing with these commander decks and happens across this comment, Thosand-Year Elixir, Rings of Brightearth, Lithoform Engine, and Illusionist's Bracers all let your commander do her thing more and/or faster. But all four are closer to the not-budget side of upgrades.
Curious why not the whole module loop (Animation, Decoction, fabrication)? It buffs your creatures whe nyou get energy, pay one to make a servo, get an energy from a creature entering, repeat
yes! do the rest of the decks please :)
Third path iconoclast might be worth a look at, plenty of noncreature spells floating around not too hard to create a few artifact soilders
Great video! Any chance you would do an updated one now that the new MH3 energy cards are out?
I'm surprised you didn't mention Storm the Vault. Certainly an easy deck to make your own Tolarian Academy! Plus there's flavour in the name
The 4 drop artifact card that makes everything into artifacts that was in MoM or ONE ?
Please do the rest of the decks especially the mutant deck!
the mutant deck is hecka fun, just has a jank mana base in the default box. I think the Energy deck is probably the hardest to wrap my head around, because I just don't have a good feeling for how much energy I really would be floating in any given situation.
Gonna need a deck tech for that Mutants deck, plz.
Academy Manufactor is a replacement effect so I think you get the tokens untapped, similarly to how they don't get the special effects of the Shelob tokens or similar
No you are misunderstanding what part is being replaced in both instances. Nuka-Cola Machine says "Whenever you sacrifice a Food, create a tapped Treasure token." Academy Manufactor effectively replaces the word "Treasure" with "Food, Clue, and Treasure." making it read "Whenever you sacrifice a Food, create tapped Food, Clue, and Treasure tokens." Similar rule if you have something like Parallel Lives making you create two tapped treasures.
In the case of Shelob all Academy Manufactor is seeing is you making a Food, and will therefore replace EVERYTHING Shelob is doing with you making a normal Food, Clue, and Treasure token. Same thing happens if you make a token copy of something like Gingerbrute, you don't get the Gingerbrute but you do get a Food, Clue, and Treasure. In other words if you have Manufactor in your Shelob deck it's actually more of an anti-combo and you should consider removing it. Or you get to point this out to someone else in your play group that does this.
You are incorrect. What I said about the tapped tokens is correct. I double checked with a judge before making the video
Is there a moxfield list or decklist for this?
Aether Roc, Gontis heart, assembly line/whirler rouge. Infinite creatures. Add reckless fire weaver, or an impact tremors type ability, and GGs boys.
That’s one of my combos. I’m thinking of making it more a Jeskai Energy and running Liberty Prime as the Commander.
Dynavolt, iscocron scepter, dramatic reversal let’s you win with the tower.
Age of Innovation is a good one. When an artifact/artificer enters, you may pay 1. When you do, you get 2 energy. Pay 6 energy; sac it, draw 6 cards
It's expensive, annoyingly, but KCI seems great here. This was a great video, I'm planning on building this and these were some good ideas.
Does the artifacts enter tapped from Academy manufacturer replacement affect? 🤔
Yes. It doesn't change the tapped bit.
I still have a goofy Atraxa energy deck that's terrible, but I've found that those Vivid lands were suddenly worth playing: they come in tapped, but proliferating nonsense means they always tap for all colors. Great for budgets too.
Vince. MATE. if you are going on this route of precon updated you might as well do for the warhammer necron deck . Thank you . More of thats for sure
It feels to me that there was a fifth deck in the works, and they just instead decided to mush like a handful of cards from that deck into the other four.
Illusionists bracers might be good, cursed mirror could also be a useful include. The Reaver Cleaver would be great.
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck runs both decoction module and crystal shard (and erratic portal). Just to guarantee that I can play my commander again even if my opponents won't kill it. And sometimes it lets me cast the wanderer twice in one turn...good times.
In your section about nuka cola machine and academy manufactor you said tapped food/clue/treasure. Unless I'm missing something why are they tapped?
If a source makes a tapped one of the three, it makes a tapped one of each of them. Weird quirk.
How dare you say that the Mutant Deck and my beautiful Wise Mothman isn't the best deck
I haven't played any of these decks but I have decided to have an opinion to drive engagement because your deck tech videos are fun and deserve to do well
LOL Each game I have played against someone's Mutant deck has resulted in them dying from their own radiation counters meanwhile Science! marches on accepting a little Radiation for the benefits of a better tomorrow least that is what Vault-tec told me to write :P
Sad you didnt go with liberty prime as the commander, its so cool
Please do the other decks! I've watched so many videos on all of the decks. Most miss the core points the science deck sets out to do. The only other person I've seen hit the mark has been Kyle Hill, though he focused on the artifact side more. I learned how proliferate works on a player in this too! I watched a lot of play videos with people testing the decks and everyone got the proliferate players wrong. They all picked and chose how they wanted it to apply to the energy/rad counters, and never looked at how it's supposed to target a player and ALL their counters.
I like these types of videos and feel they may help draw in more of an audience from another demographic that may feel like you never noticed them before. *shrugs* hopefully it does well though
That's what I am hoping too. I love brainstorming new stuff, and talking about old interactions - want to share that with newer players.
Dogmeat please :) ive done some kamigawa neon upgrades to mine ready for testing
Sick deck tech
I'd like to see your ideas on The Wise Mothman, I'm not a fan of everyone pushing it to be a pure mill deck.
Mill is good.
What I'd like to see, is what you'd make as precon decks, if you were in charge. Remember that they also have to be affordable.
It's not that 3 mana rocks aren't competitive enough, it's just that you are better off with mind stone in most cases. If you commander is 5 or more mana, sure play the 3 mana rock. But If it's 4 or less, the three mana rocks don't line up well (most of the time). And if you are going to pick one pick midnight clock, and not garbage like the lockets or clue stones
Commander Sphere supremacy.
@PleasantKenobi for 3p cheaper you can hit your curve or play commander sphere and draw you 35th land when you needed a putrify
If you go Artifact heavy - Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge
Mothman deck is spice. Radstorm has got me thinking
Gotta love science 😎👌
Maybe not going infinite with cost reducers but a scrap trawler, myr retriever engine to make more energy than a nuclear power plant.
Sure why not! More Vince the better. ;-)
need caesar but with mr house as the commander
PLEASE, I am begging for a broken busted "House always wins" Mr. House Commander deck!
Mothman please!
I think Mr. House should be done here. He is the guy who comes to the table and plays Yahtzee instead of magic.
i got all 4 so please do all 4 vincent
More videos please
Sorry Vince cloudstone curio is specifically non artifact 😢. No infinite there unfortunately, I wish though
More!
Atog goes infinite with Academy Man and Nuka Cola and I think that's pretty cool
I love your content, I'd always be happy with more and I enjoyed this video just the same
hell yeah
peragreen took and manufactor make nukacola insane in other decks
No. If Manufactor replaces the token generation, it doesn't change them from being tapped.
@@PleasantKenobi my apolgies didnt know this
more fallout decktechs just all of them
🎉
Interaction for Milk Daddy!
Comment at the end was a little off putting... Wizards didn't deem you important enough for free stuff? lol. The deck lists came out weeks ago. There's no reason you need free influencer paper to make an upgrade list.
I wanted to play with the decks before commenting on them where possible. And yes, I wasn't considered important enough as an influencer or voice to get sent the Fallout product. That is how it felt, and how it looks.
If you find that off putting, I don't know what to tell you. Preview content is much better than late to the party content.
It'd be nice if they made in universe versions of the universe beyond stuff cause some of it is really cool but i'm just not a big fan of the non-mtg universe look, just a bit off-putting to me
Unfortunately... that is unlikely to happen. Those in-universe reprints have like zero value.
First of comment for the comment gods but also why did the video go away for like 3 hours?
The Fallout flavor is too good to upgrade the decks. If I do, I'll probably have to make proxies with Fallout nicknames and art
De-cock-tion module
Pole
Mutants plzzzzz
yes, so fun to scan in that deck and find out there are only 3 cards worth over $1.........
Vince I've considered you to be a wise man and a bastion of sanity in the community but today i am horribly offended and now reconsidering everything i thought i knew about the milkiest man in esports...you are going to sit there with a straight face and claim the science precon is the coolest deck when MOTHMAN is sitting right there! for shame vince
Where are you at with the whole casual VS competitive commander discourse? I think that just not playing with someone because you're assuming your automatically going to loose without bothering to look into why that might be the case is sort of childish personally and kind of just sucks for the person playing the "perceived cedh deck". I'm open to discussion on the topic tho, but I'm not promising to change my mind or anything like that.
Better to have that "Rule 0" discussion. If they are running lots of fast mana into tutors to infinite combos on turn 4... I'd rather not waste my time.
@@MaleusMaleficarum (this is long so there's tldr at the bottom. It sounds more blunt and standoffish tho, fair warning) I get where you're coming from but even the most competitive decks have trouble winning early unless the stars align. This is particially because it's a singleton format with 99/98 card decks and partially because of that players opponents and the interaction they can bring to the table. That interaction is split realatively evenly throughout the color pile. Granted certain colors are worse off than others, but that doesn't default to those colors always losing anymore. If this was still early-mid 2010's it would be a different story, but is not colors are way more well rounded nowadays. Even mono colored and casual decks can absolutely rinse competative pods because those competative decks tend to be really fragile.
Proxies are widely accepted, even crappy ones and they're even largely allowed in tournaments for specifically edh. So not running cards that stop you from loosing to either a combo or a value oriented deck is kind of your own fault. It isn't really fair to expect someone to compromise on their own gameplan to compensate for your shortcomings as a player.
Cedh is a really grindy format right now, largely in part because of cards typically deemed okay in casual pods. The name of the game is advantage peices and hyper specifc stax peices. The key words there are definetly hyper specific, yeah a dranith magistrate or collector ouph might suck because it stop your commander or artifacts, but it doesnt lock people out of the game in casual like maybe an Armagedon affect or contamination might which nobody really plays because those cards are bad and feel bad to play. Like a table full of people that dont heavily rely on tutors are not going to care about your graftdiggers cage or opposition agent. Worse case scenario, you steal like a cultivate or something and the opposition agent SHOULD be removed. Again sometimes the stars allign and nobody has it, but if your pod is running an appropriate ammount of interaction then a single 3/2 wouldn't really be the end of the world. If 3+ whole ass people can't answer a single spell or creature regardless of if it's part of a combo or not, you can't really place the blame on whoever played the card or series of cards.
There are combos and things that should be banned, primarily thoracle not because its impossible to interact with tho. Rnd not doing their job isn't really the cedh communities fault, and that is its own issue that we can talk about and possbly find some common ground if you want.
Rule zero discussions are typically a bad idea. They are often ineffective because casual players respond to cedh by metaphorically burrying their head in the sand, so casual players dont really understand whats good and use sweeping generalized rules to try and dictate whats okay to play in this game. Like ive never heard ad nasuem get brought up in a rule 0 conversation and its legitimately one of the strongest singular cards in cedh.
Even casual players can be inconvenienced by rule 0 discussions and expecting someone to change a chunk of their deck on the fly for your benefit is selfish and isnt really a fair thing to ask of someone. Theres no reason why someone needs to be reasonable about their rule 0 requirements. Like what if someone got washed by an like idk an animar deck or something like that and just now eternally refuses to play with or cooperate with someone running that commander regardless of what their 99 actually contains? Do you think it's fair that person would shut down a potential 4 player pod that could of had a fun game because of their own biases? Now imagine how shitty that feels, but ad in the stress and anxiety that comes with it just being one person that effectively singled out and banned from playing a game like its elementary school.
Finally you thinking a game that happens to be quick and desisive because the stars aligned or because of your or other people's lackluster deckbuilding choices as a "waist of time" is strictly your opinion and the same thing could easily be said about games that stretch out a reeaally long time without anything impactful happening besides just value shenanigans. Except unlike a game that lasts a half hour to an hour (possibly more) there's nothing stopping players from shuffling up and starting over after a quick game besides those players own opinions about this game and what's okay to play or not.
TLDR: Cedh is slower than you think, you would know that if you bothered tollerating it. Casual decks can absolutely sweep cedh tables because of the inherent downsides that comes with having a super focused deck in singleton formats. If you consistently loose to something specific then it's because of solely your own and your pod-mates own shortcomings as players especially considering proxies eliminate any barrier of entry. Rule 0's discussion are unreasonable, inaccurate, it can affect people who play casually, and can definitely be extremely unreasonable based on one or two players biases. Expecting someone to change their gameplan because of your personal shortcomings and opinions is childish elementary school behavior and it's a selfish thing to subject other people too. A "cedh player" just wants to play a game with you, and you cant expect them to respect your wishes when you clearly don't respect their wishes. Finally getting mad because you lot a game, or the game didn't pan out how you intended is just as much your fault as it is the other player's and its the antithesis of what "casual" actually means.
@@B1ngusD1ngus dude. Your points are well articulated. That said... I'm not judging someone for wanting to run CEDH... I've seen CEDH decks get torn apart by precons with removal.
It's far more about how I enjoy playing. I don't enjoy being in a pod that's trying to combo off on turn 4. I'm not going to ask somebody to change their deck... but I'm also REALLY unlikely to play them again if all they brought was something trying to win with Th-oracle.
@@MaleusMaleficarum I mean your more than able to make that decision. I still believe that refusing to participate in a game with someone for that reason in particular is kinda shitty, but idk. I personally wouldnt sit down at a fnm and concede a round becase im assuming i won't have fun, regardless if the event was really casual or competative. If I was a parent talking to my kid, I'd probably say "you can decide if you don't want to play with someone, but you should at least give them the benefit of the doubt and try, who knows you might have fun".
Just keep in mind it can get shitty if the person who wants to play a "competative" deck like that is like "outnumbered" by the casual players. I get that sounds cringe but the conversation can quickly change from, "no thanks i personally dont play in this pod" to "no you cannot play with us, we do not like playing with you" and it really feels like you're getting singled out for kinda crappy reasons honestly. Like I said the barrier for entry is free, and running an appropriate amount of interaction is something you really want to be doing in casual anyways, tailoring that interaction to be more versatile that a bunch of board wipes can really make a pet deck better.
You have a point with not liking thoracle tho. Like I said that combo is pretty broken, i didnt mention it im my comment before but intuition being unnbaned doesn't make any sense at all. I wish rnd would just do their job because it could help mitigate the gap between casual and competitive.
Like rnd says that they refuse to ban for cedh but i gaurentee if something is good enough to be considered for banning in cedh then its probably a kitchen table killing machine, so to speak. Also they banned flash so claiming they dont ban for comp. doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me. My next few paragraphs are kind of uninimportant to the points above/common sense stuff if youre familiar with comp. so feel free to skip them.
Thoracle is the cheapest win in the format in argueably the 2 best colors, it costs only 3 mana and its not vulnerable to straight up removal. Intuition gives multiple decks a 1 card win condition but it's like 10+mana to pull off. Still there's no phesable reason that gifts ungiven should be banned and a card that does basically the same thing at half the Mana isn't.
The next fastest 2 card combo that wins on its own is probably dualcaster+twinflame at 6 mana or underworld breach+brainfreeze at 4 mana plus setup. Dualcaster+twinflame is vulnerable to removal. Nobody even plays dualcast+ twinflame because it's poorly situated with dranith magistrate, rule of law and such. Also underworld breach+brain freeze gets to abuse intuition pretty easily but it looses to any sorta graveyard hate and non-creature removal, so it's a lot more vulnerable that thoacle. Also if you Opposition agent a cedh deck's intuition they probably can't even win anymore after that because you can steal their win con and any backup they might have.
A lot of people argue that kinnan is the best deck in the format because of how slow games tend to play out in practice. Those lists are really close to casual shells already. It plays tons of cards that you wouldnt expect. Consecrated sphinx, nezuhal, seedborn muse, ect. It's a cool list. If someone wanted to get into comp. I'd recommend either diversifying the interaction in their pet deck, or trying out kinnan.
I didnt buy it because it didnt have DR MOBIUS!!!
i'm glad I quit mtg when i did so stupid all this crossover crap.
Using regular cards in a UB deck is cringe.
mothman now
Mutants plzzzzz