Its been brought to my attention there is an error in the video! A creature with Persist and Undying does not come back with both a +1/+1 and a -1/-1 counter on it. When it dies, it comes back with Undying OR Persist, and then on the next death trigger, it returns to the battlefield with the with the other effect. It still DOES go infinite, but not exactly how described in the video.
To disrupt the Mike/Trike combo, just swords or path Mikaeus in response to Triskelion leaving the battlefield. Trike will still come back, so your opponent will deal 5 damage to you, but it's better than being dead. He can be disrupted with other instant "destroy" cards, but you will want to exile Mikaeus, as they most likely have to ability to bring him back, thus starting the combo again.
The walking ballista combo seems wierd, wouldn’t you just remove the counters for free with Balistas ability then it does for having 0 toughness and mikeaus brings it back rinse repeat??
The issue is Mikaeus gives a +1/+1 buff to all non-humans you control, and Ballista is non-human. So if you take all the counters off, it's still a 1/1.
King of Jank it enters as a 0/0 the mikaeus triggers. Then you remove a counter it dies because 0 toughness and gets the undying proc from mikaeus becuase there are no counters on it
@@AIMLESS-NAMELESS The last line of Mikaeus states "Other non-Human creatures you control *get +1/+1* and have undying. " So even if you play Ballista for 0, it comes in as a 1/1 with undying and no +1/+1 counters because of the +1/+1 buff Mikaeus gives. So when it dies, it will then re-enter as a 2/2, because it is a base 0/0, but gets the 1/1 buff from Mikaeus because it is non-human and it comes back with a +1/+1 counter from undying.
Hmmm u might like my version of that........ I can freely choose any monster I want...without having to draw it...as long as it's in the graveyard... and if any of my mobs get sent to the graveyard.... They come right back... and by sending my own mobs to the graveyard and playing from the graveyard.... their safe from discard cards like Thoughtseize etc.... the only downsides... it's practically impossible to pull off ingame unless you have lots of delving cards.... an if sum 1 plays.. a graveyard clearance card!!! Which BTW I do have.... and it's continues.......Do's make 1 interesting video though :-)
wouldn't walking ballista work infinite with just mikeaus cause if you get Them both on the field walking ballista would get plus one plus one from mikaeus for not being human walking ballista lets you remove a counter cause of its ability and ping target creature or player with it having no counters it dies then comes back cause of undying with the plus counter from mikaeus remove it rinse and repeat cause I bring them both into play with protean hulk cause once you take off the counter with ballistas ability it will have zero toughness making it die then undying will bring it back remove it again you get the picture
That's not how that works. Persist and undying don't cancel each other out. If something has -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters on it, the counters don't just disappear. They still exist on the creature, whether or not there is any net change to the creature's power and toughness. This is important to keep in mind for proliferate triggers. The undying persist combo works because only one of them can bring the creature back per each death, so it only enters with one of the two types of counters on it. This lets the other ability bring it back the next time it dies, and you end up with an unkillable creature that's sometimes bigger and sometimes smaller than its base P/T.
+1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters do cancel each other out as of Rule 704.5q: "If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it." You are correct about a creature with Persist and Undying, you only pick one trigger and then switch between them on each death. That was an oversight on my part.
Its been brought to my attention there is an error in the video! A creature with Persist and Undying does not come back with both a +1/+1 and a -1/-1 counter on it. When it dies, it comes back with Undying OR Persist, and then on the next death trigger, it returns to the battlefield with the with the other effect. It still DOES go infinite, but not exactly how described in the video.
To disrupt the Mike/Trike combo, just swords or path Mikaeus in response to Triskelion leaving the battlefield. Trike will still come back, so your opponent will deal 5 damage to you, but it's better than being dead. He can be disrupted with other instant "destroy" cards, but you will want to exile Mikaeus, as they most likely have to ability to bring him back, thus starting the combo again.
Very true. Most combos are easily disrupt-able with good removal. But I like to imagine a perfect scenario ;)
Ol' Mikey is a staple in my Zombie Tribal, great video! 🤘😁🤘
The fact you have one makes me jealous. Thanks!
i love your zoom. it's realistic so I gotta praise you for that comedic effect even if it was intentional or not!
Can I use phrexian plaugelord and mikaeus for that combo? Or a combo
Pentavus and Ashnod's Altar are fun with him. I am considering getting him for a commander deck. He seems really fun.
What’s the song you used during your combo breaking explanations???.......I like the song, or beat rather. 😁👍
For this one it was "Sci-Fi" on Bensound: www.bensound.com/royalty-free-music/track/sci-fi
From experience always counter or exile Mike
You're a smart man Cranked.
@@KingofJank mikeaus is so nasty i have removed it from decks. Where i left him i removed triskelion
@@DVS57REBEL You're a good person. I would've doubled down with more combos.
i love this kind of stuff :D thaks for intruducing me to this idea! when i get a chance to grab mikaeus for cheap i will definitly try this
If you can grab Mikaeus for cheap, let me know cause I will too lol
I'll grab one in foil for 30€
Great video just subscribed!
Thanks! There should be more Combo Breakdowns coming soon!
The walking ballista combo seems wierd, wouldn’t you just remove the counters for free with Balistas ability then it does for having 0 toughness and mikeaus brings it back rinse repeat??
The issue is Mikaeus gives a +1/+1 buff to all non-humans you control, and Ballista is non-human. So if you take all the counters off, it's still a 1/1.
King of Jank it enters as a 0/0 the mikaeus triggers. Then you remove a counter it dies because 0 toughness and gets the undying proc from mikaeus becuase there are no counters on it
@@AIMLESS-NAMELESS The last line of Mikaeus states "Other non-Human creatures you control *get +1/+1* and have undying. "
So even if you play Ballista for 0, it comes in as a 1/1 with undying and no +1/+1 counters because of the +1/+1 buff Mikaeus gives. So when it dies, it will then re-enter as a 2/2, because it is a base 0/0, but gets the 1/1 buff from Mikaeus because it is non-human and it comes back with a +1/+1 counter from undying.
@@KingofJank yes but its a 1/1 counter that you can remove
@@KingofJank i jsut double checked the card and can confirm that it comes in with 1/1 counters and you can remove a 1/1 counter to do dmg, then loop
That moment when you pulled a mike then bought a foil mike when he was standard
Hmmm u might like my version of that........ I can freely choose any monster I want...without having to draw it...as long as it's in the graveyard... and if any of my mobs get sent to the graveyard.... They come right back... and by sending my own mobs to the graveyard and playing from the graveyard.... their safe from discard cards like Thoughtseize etc.... the only downsides... it's practically impossible to pull off ingame unless you have lots of delving cards.... an if sum 1 plays.. a graveyard clearance card!!! Which BTW I do have.... and it's continues.......Do's make 1 interesting video though :-)
wouldn't walking ballista work infinite with just mikeaus cause if you get Them both on the field walking ballista would get plus one plus one from mikaeus for not being human walking ballista lets you remove a counter cause of its ability and ping target creature or player with it having no counters it dies then comes back cause of undying with the plus counter from mikaeus remove it rinse and repeat cause I bring them both into play with protean hulk cause once you take off the counter with ballistas ability it will have zero toughness making it die then undying will bring it back remove it again you get the picture
It doesn't die on it's own when you remove the last counter to target something other than itself because mikaeus gives it +1/+1
That's not how that works. Persist and undying don't cancel each other out. If something has -1/-1 counters and +1/+1 counters on it, the counters don't just disappear. They still exist on the creature, whether or not there is any net change to the creature's power and toughness. This is important to keep in mind for proliferate triggers. The undying persist combo works because only one of them can bring the creature back per each death, so it only enters with one of the two types of counters on it. This lets the other ability bring it back the next time it dies, and you end up with an unkillable creature that's sometimes bigger and sometimes smaller than its base P/T.
+1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters do cancel each other out as of Rule 704.5q: "If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it."
You are correct about a creature with Persist and Undying, you only pick one trigger and then switch between them on each death. That was an oversight on my part.
You can’t afford 20$???........I just bought 2 foil versions for 30 each......the non foil is 20.........
Haha, Its more that I would rather not spend $20 on a single card, but that is awesome you were able to get 2 foils!
King of Jank hey question, what’s the song you used in that video?
@@douglasfoley2060 For this one it was "Sci-Fi" on Bensound: www.bensound.com/royalty-free-music/track/sci-fi