I think it's a combination of having that lower t winding, then lyric wanted to protect the motor by lowering the phase current so it doesn't burn itself out when accelerating since I'm guessing the lower t motors are more susceptible to overheating at lower speeds. I have a video coming out of my modded goat on Monday doing some acceleration tests. It's 17s, 100dc amps, phase Amps are around 250 and it's my second fastest accelerating bike, only to be beaten by the 90 amp dual geared hub motor psychocycle
@EBikeBuilder_ I also spoke to someone who spoke with the ceo and he told him it was also a legal and liability issue to make it start slow but idk if i believe that because a typical geared hub motor ebike from China accelerates faster than that bike
Something I've always wanted to do is build an ebike with a twist throttle so good it that it's similar to the action you'd get off a engined dirt bike. That way you could do drifting. Especially this time of year in the snow. Would be a blast
Sag indicates wether low quality cells, bad tune or low capacity vs high power... In general, you experience less sag with 100Ah packs Also, the windings on that motor is not for torque but for speed
And now grin has a thru axle hub motor aval so you can use it on them forks im building my Bigniu BG-X to 60v62.5ah with 5k motor with 3.5t and im changing my plan to use a ASI BAC 4k and also thought about dual motors but i wont need that bunit is possible with thru axle now from grins new motors.
i'd always try one motor first. and see if it does what you need. Because it gets heavy real quick adding another motor. It can be fun. A front motor affects handling of the bars and steering. makes working on the front wheel annoying. It feels more like a tank or something with a front motor lol its a whole different machine, I kinda like my fat bike with just 1 motor especially for any kindof mtb, that weight in the front wheel is wacky
I think it's part the controller tune that he fixed an also they used horrible cells in that battery if you watch the voltage sag. If it had no sag I would take off way better with the tune also.
@EBikeBuilder_ it's because that battery can not deliver anymore and really can't handle what they tuned it to with almost 10v of sag it's bad. I know he has talked to Powerful lithium about a battery for it already. I bet with a P45B cells pack and a good tune that bike will be perfect
@@oldmanebikes8392 yeah I wonder how much better it will be, with a better battery? it just seems like a high speed / low torque motor wind. I think the bac2000 was already configured for 200 phase amps which is the max. I guess its a good thing there's a lot of room on that bike for a bigger battery Lol I still cant believe Samsung 50E
I've thought about doing a front wheel kit from citizen cycle for either this bike or a power goat v3 too. I hope someone does this. I know it would be super heavy, but hell, at 120lbs already, would 15 pounds make it that much worse?
If you know the right people you can get the ASI BAC tuned like my boy chriscrossingwires can get you tuned perfectly and they are expensive but they are the best built with the best components inside. Go watch the guy that takes all these Ebike controllers apart and show how they are built and ASI is the best one so far.
ive tried to watch chris crossing wires channel, but it seems he's always in the midst of a gang war or something and I get bored of listening about haters and whatever else he is going on about Lol. I left a comment one time asking a question and he went off on a tirade and i think he was talking shit for like 3 videos after that. The ASI controllers are nice high performance. But I dont like the price, dont like the tools, dont like the CEO he is an absolute tool bag. I'm just not into expensive proprietary stuff. VESC is the future, I think ASI with their canadian prices and turdeau taxes will struggle to stay competitive. The ASI controllers i have looked into reverse engineering similar to the Kilowatt app. But even then, the firmware is still locked down.
in this case, i think the KV of the motor windings is just a fast wind, and to make it accelerate faster would require brute amperage Lol. and like a bac4000 with high discharge battery. But then you would probbablyu want to upgrade from this motor too.
@EBikeBuilder_ yes that's why I picked a 5000w 3.5t motor for my BG -X build and my battery can discharge together over 800a peak and 400a nom but still not sure if I'm going with the BAC 4k or a fardriver I think I trust the BAC more tho and I have someone with total access to the backdoor of ASI
@@oldmanebikes8392 yeah dont let me talk you out of the ASI controller, they are probably the best, gotta pay for them though. Where I stopped using the ASI BAC controllers was with the BBSHD. I have used the Phaserunner extensively which is a rebranded ASI BAC 855 where grin tech provides programming software for it, making it a user programmable ASI BAC 855 in a sense. but the Grin tech software is janky. I have tried connecting the ASI BACDOOR software to the phaserunner and it works, but its hard to say to what extent. I dont have the latest version of bacdoor- i imagine you would probably need to pay for the subscription with ASI. ASI doesn't even let you look at their controller documentation anymore- they require the user to have an account to VIEW the asi bac documentation. So grin tech phaserunner customers get the asi bac 855, but then no bacdoor /no documentation, only the janky grin tech phaserunner suite software. So in a sense Grin Tech phaserunner is like ASI BAC 855, but without ASI software or documentation or support. Grin Tech phaserunner is only the bac 855, and they dont have any more powerful phaserunners (based on bac2000 or 4000 etc). I think its possible to reverse engineer the protocol, and communicate with the controller. I was looking into it. Thats probably how the Kilowatt app works. But even if you reverse engineer the communications with the controller, its still a proprietary firmware with no way to program or change the behavior of the firmware. So yeah ASI controllers are powerful and great but expensive. I like programming and tinkering and non proprietary stuff so I'm gonna use VESC. ASI controllers are great very powerful and stable / reliable. Probably the best but gotta pay for them!! Go look up the CEO of ASI hes a fuckin tool bag Lmao he is in some interview on youtube and I was just like oh man i dont know if i would get along with that guy.
Them cells are horrible they have no power anytime I used them I always had horrible sag. I bet you use molicels in that pack the bike would take off great because it wouldn't have any sag on take off the 50e cells are dropping to 57v so you basically have a 52v battery when your pushing it fully charged. There battery is definitely junk. We will see because I talked with him and he is getting a molicel pack from Powerful lithium to put on it.
yeah the samsung 50E in 8p is being pushed to the limits on the Graffiti X . Not good for the battery to be doing 7000W. ALSO i think the BAC 2000 is already set to its max at 200 phase amps, So I dont know that you could bump the controller up much. I think youd have to upgrade the battery AND controller to make this bike any better, unless I am missing something with the BAC 2000
You keep skipping past it the first scream was already changed then he shows the stock curve but you skipped past it maybe watch it then talk about it. Lol just busting balls in love your channel but let his video play and it will make you understand it easier 😊
im lazy with editing and i just try to do it all live lol, i had already watched his videos several times each. But i get caught up trying to like explain whats going on live so it makes sense. and scrubbing through the video and shit Im unorganized haha
@@oldmanebikes8392 something is wacky for sure with this bike. even when he bumps it up to 3000W from a start it seems like it needs twice that much, Lol. High speed low torque motor. I guess you just need to make it do 14KW 🤣
Liked and subscribed. You seem like a man who knows his stuff and is no BS. Give me the science.
I think it's a combination of having that lower t winding, then lyric wanted to protect the motor by lowering the phase current so it doesn't burn itself out when accelerating since I'm guessing the lower t motors are more susceptible to overheating at lower speeds. I have a video coming out of my modded goat on Monday doing some acceleration tests. It's 17s, 100dc amps, phase Amps are around 250 and it's my second fastest accelerating bike, only to be beaten by the 90 amp dual geared hub motor psychocycle
yea I'm not entirely sure why Lyric chose that motor wind. I like the Goat Power Bikes they seem like a much better setup
@EBikeBuilder_ I also spoke to someone who spoke with the ceo and he told him it was also a legal and liability issue to make it start slow but idk if i believe that because a typical geared hub motor ebike from China accelerates faster than that bike
Something I've always wanted to do is build an ebike with a twist throttle so good it that it's similar to the action you'd get off a engined dirt bike. That way you could do drifting. Especially this time of year in the snow. Would be a blast
I cant believe the voltage sag 61.35v to 55.5v from 67.2v, thats crazy.
@@justinshields7501 that’s what we get doing 120A from the 16S 8P samsung 50E battery 😂 it seems
Sag indicates wether low quality cells, bad tune or low capacity vs high power... In general, you experience less sag with 100Ah packs
Also, the windings on that motor is not for torque but for speed
And now grin has a thru axle hub motor aval so you can use it on them forks im building my Bigniu BG-X to 60v62.5ah with 5k motor with 3.5t and im changing my plan to use a ASI BAC 4k and also thought about dual motors but i wont need that bunit is possible with thru axle now from grins new motors.
i'd always try one motor first. and see if it does what you need. Because it gets heavy real quick adding another motor. It can be fun. A front motor affects handling of the bars and steering. makes working on the front wheel annoying. It feels more like a tank or something with a front motor lol its a whole different machine, I kinda like my fat bike with just 1 motor especially for any kindof mtb, that weight in the front wheel is wacky
I think it's part the controller tune that he fixed an also they used horrible cells in that battery if you watch the voltage sag. If it had no sag I would take off way better with the tune also.
yeah I just wonder why they had the controller tuned like that in the first place, Lol i imagine we will find out if MRCD pushes his testing further..
@EBikeBuilder_ it's because that battery can not deliver anymore and really can't handle what they tuned it to with almost 10v of sag it's bad. I know he has talked to Powerful lithium about a battery for it already. I bet with a P45B cells pack and a good tune that bike will be perfect
@@oldmanebikes8392 yeah I wonder how much better it will be, with a better battery? it just seems like a high speed / low torque motor wind. I think the bac2000 was already configured for 200 phase amps which is the max. I guess its a good thing there's a lot of room on that bike for a bigger battery Lol I still cant believe Samsung 50E
I've thought about doing a front wheel kit from citizen cycle for either this bike or a power goat v3 too. I hope someone does this. I know it would be super heavy, but hell, at 120lbs already, would 15 pounds make it that much worse?
Seems this video won't allow my comments for some reason.
@@stevecumming6427 i see this one, weird
What up Steve
If you know the right people you can get the ASI BAC tuned like my boy chriscrossingwires can get you tuned perfectly and they are expensive but they are the best built with the best components inside. Go watch the guy that takes all these Ebike controllers apart and show how they are built and ASI is the best one so far.
ive tried to watch chris crossing wires channel, but it seems he's always in the midst of a gang war or something and I get bored of listening about haters and whatever else he is going on about Lol. I left a comment one time asking a question and he went off on a tirade and i think he was talking shit for like 3 videos after that. The ASI controllers are nice high performance. But I dont like the price, dont like the tools, dont like the CEO he is an absolute tool bag. I'm just not into expensive proprietary stuff. VESC is the future, I think ASI with their canadian prices and turdeau taxes will struggle to stay competitive. The ASI controllers i have looked into reverse engineering similar to the Kilowatt app. But even then, the firmware is still locked down.
in this case, i think the KV of the motor windings is just a fast wind, and to make it accelerate faster would require brute amperage Lol. and like a bac4000 with high discharge battery. But then you would probbablyu want to upgrade from this motor too.
@EBikeBuilder_ yes that's why I picked a 5000w 3.5t motor for my BG -X build and my battery can discharge together over 800a peak and 400a nom but still not sure if I'm going with the BAC 4k or a fardriver I think I trust the BAC more tho and I have someone with total access to the backdoor of ASI
@@oldmanebikes8392 yeah dont let me talk you out of the ASI controller, they are probably the best, gotta pay for them though. Where I stopped using the ASI BAC controllers was with the BBSHD. I have used the Phaserunner extensively which is a rebranded ASI BAC 855 where grin tech provides programming software for it, making it a user programmable ASI BAC 855 in a sense. but the Grin tech software is janky. I have tried connecting the ASI BACDOOR software to the phaserunner and it works, but its hard to say to what extent. I dont have the latest version of bacdoor- i imagine you would probably need to pay for the subscription with ASI. ASI doesn't even let you look at their controller documentation anymore- they require the user to have an account to VIEW the asi bac documentation. So grin tech phaserunner customers get the asi bac 855, but then no bacdoor /no documentation, only the janky grin tech phaserunner suite software. So in a sense Grin Tech phaserunner is like ASI BAC 855, but without ASI software or documentation or support. Grin Tech phaserunner is only the bac 855, and they dont have any more powerful phaserunners (based on bac2000 or 4000 etc). I think its possible to reverse engineer the protocol, and communicate with the controller. I was looking into it. Thats probably how the Kilowatt app works. But even if you reverse engineer the communications with the controller, its still a proprietary firmware with no way to program or change the behavior of the firmware. So yeah ASI controllers are powerful and great but expensive. I like programming and tinkering and non proprietary stuff so I'm gonna use VESC. ASI controllers are great very powerful and stable / reliable. Probably the best but gotta pay for them!! Go look up the CEO of ASI hes a fuckin tool bag Lmao he is in some interview on youtube and I was just like oh man i dont know if i would get along with that guy.
Them cells are horrible they have no power anytime I used them I always had horrible sag. I bet you use molicels in that pack the bike would take off great because it wouldn't have any sag on take off the 50e cells are dropping to 57v so you basically have a 52v battery when your pushing it fully charged. There battery is definitely junk. We will see because I talked with him and he is getting a molicel pack from Powerful lithium to put on it.
yeah the samsung 50E in 8p is being pushed to the limits on the Graffiti X . Not good for the battery to be doing 7000W. ALSO i think the BAC 2000 is already set to its max at 200 phase amps, So I dont know that you could bump the controller up much. I think youd have to upgrade the battery AND controller to make this bike any better, unless I am missing something with the BAC 2000
You keep skipping past it the first scream was already changed then he shows the stock curve but you skipped past it maybe watch it then talk about it. Lol just busting balls in love your channel but let his video play and it will make you understand it easier 😊
im lazy with editing and i just try to do it all live lol, i had already watched his videos several times each. But i get caught up trying to like explain whats going on live so it makes sense. and scrubbing through the video and shit Im unorganized haha
I did get it right eventually Lol 🤣but everyone has to suffer through my confusion
@@EBikeBuilder_ I hear ya I hate editing and might just go with lives and they get what they get lol
@@oldmanebikes8392 i was able to edit out that 10 seconds of confusion in the youtube studio editor🤣 👍
@@oldmanebikes8392 something is wacky for sure with this bike. even when he bumps it up to 3000W from a start it seems like it needs twice that much, Lol. High speed low torque motor. I guess you just need to make it do 14KW 🤣