What makes a TURBO STRONG? - BOOST SCHOOL #9
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
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So here we have two MaXpeedingRods turbo chargers. At first glance they look pretty much identical right? They're both "GT28" turbos with nearly identical specs but one costs almost four times as much as the other? Why? Because one is a lot stronger than the other and today we're going to use these two turbochargers as an example to learn what makes a turbo strong and better capable of handling higher boost, more abuse and more racing use.
These two turbine housings may look similar but they're made of completely different materials. The low cost turbine housing is made from nodular iron while our other turbo has a stainless steel turbine housing. Now stainless steel is definitely the superior choice for a turbine housing due to two main reasons. Reason one is that it has a higher temperature resistance and reason two is that it offers better resistance to oxidation.
Now we're moving onto the compressor housing. Now both of these compressor housings are made from the same material ZL104 aluminum. The compressor housing together with the compressor wheel comprises the cold side of the turbo and obviously it never sees temperatures anywhere near of what the turbine housing sees which is why temperature resistance is much less of a factor on the cold side.
The zl104 is the alloy name according to the Chinese GBT standard and the ISO equivalent is AlSi10Mg. This is a pretty nice aluminum alloy traditionally used for casting. As aluminum alloys go It's a pretty tough alloy with good hardness and good strength. Because of it's good casting properties it's ideal for cast parts with thin walls and/or a complex geometry - of which compressor housings are a clear example.
Both of these compressor wheels are aluminum, but this one is cast and this one is MFS, or machined from solid. In other words this is a billet compressor wheel.
So why is this one better? It's better because of the same reason anything billet or forged is better than anything cast when it comes to automotive applications and it all comes down to the internal grain structure of the part.
The grains structure refers to the size and orientation of the little microscopic individual grains that make up a chunk of something. This size and orientation of these grains depends on the type of the material but also on the way a material is made and parts grain structure ultimately plays a key part in it's strength. The more uniform it is the better.
Although casting has come a long way it is still impossible to prevent a relatively random grain structure with cast parts and it's also difficult to guarantee there will be no internal porosity with casting, especially with low-tech methods.
On the other hand the billet process is completely different. It starts out with a solid chunk of metal that has been previously forged or extruded giving it a good grain structure and then you simply machine away whatever you don't need from that chunk giving you a finished part of the desired shape with the preserved grains structure of the initial billet.
Now both of these turbos are pretty identical inside and are full floating journal bearing turbos. Now I do plan to make a detailed comparison video between ball bearing turbos and journal bearing turbos in the future so for now I will say that although many people prefer ball bearings and they do offer faster spool and are ultimately a superior choice in many aspects there are still significant benefits to be had from journal bearings. Journal bearings need more oil which means that they ultimately help the cooling of the core and when everything is running properly journal bearings can last infinitely as they are a no contact bearing, they ride on a film of oil which also means they can be very effective at absorbing abuse and vibrations making them pretty handy in racing scenarios.
So what are the the lessons we can learn from this? Well it's actually pretty simple. The more extreme your application and the more boost you want the more heat resistance and mechanical strength you will need.
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Please dont underestimate the way im getting my groceries
*angry Lancia Delta noises*
@@cellphonelightsaber hahaha
Flashbacks to the time I ordered tofu delivery.
@@Asdayasman AE-86 but with a 300HP 3S-GTE....
Max Verstappen always gets the... Idk... toilet paper. Groceries are so boring these days.
You really become my second favorite channel after "Practical engineering".
Congrats from Bulgaria.
I can't help but think that the titanium nitride coating on the compressor fins is to prevent damage from ingested small particles. The thing spins at over 100,000 RPM, and a grain of sand is damaging at that speed.
TiN coatings are typically used for drill bits due to their hardness. In this application, it should increase particle abrasion resistance as you mentioned, but to be fair, if visible particles could make it into your compressor, your air filtration system has obviously failed.
@@4G12 Assume your intake filter has failed. If something gets through, what is the next failure level if a turbo compressor fin breaks, versus it not breaking?
That's why it's TiN coated.
Some turbos spin up to 5000 RPS.
@@electric7487 That's a lot of Rip'ms
@@The_Original_Default_Username A right skookum choocher...
Coming from a 15 y.o car enthusiast, loved this episode of Boost School and can't wait for the next one! Liked and subbed.
Question: Can you address the way F1 cars place their turbos in an episode? (Elongated turbo shaft)
@Pandacat 666 that's a Polish surname for you :) I came back from Gdansk yesterday and regardless I'm going there at least twice a year since 2007, I still can't read it and barely survive with the few words I remember by sound, LoL. Just imagine one of their decently large city I stopped-by going back from Torun to Gdansk is named "Bydgoszcz" which is like a joke to non Polish speakers :)
@@AlessandroGenTLe check the szczebrzeszyn then xd greetings from szcztno ;)
The solution to every problem is a stronger turbo...
Until the turbo overpowers the engine 😜
@@d4a then you engine the turbo 🤣
There is no replacement for displacement 😏
Solution to Turbo lag is a Supercharger.
@@Michal_Sobierajski Boost
This is some truly amazing content!
Also, I definitely need a compressor wheel made of PURE GOLD lol
crap im just climbing into bed but ill watch this on lunch tomorrow, liked already because I know itll be good!
This was an awesome video, never knew the turbine wheels were Inconel, cool stuff man!
Would love to see a video about balancing turbo size to engine displacement.
I'm thinking the gold titanium coating on the compressor wheel might help prevent wear from dust particles, especially for off road applications.
You wont be sucking up any dust through the turbo cause of the air filter
@@thaton3guy100 Air filters aren't perfect, and over time dust can erode an aluminum compressor that's spinning at 80,000 rpm.
Do they have different micron ratings on those filters? I understand the idea is to get as much fresh air in. So this I guess should also depend upon the surface area? Truly I have no idea as I'm running OEM. I'm at high altitude and am just looking oxygen lol.
That's what air filters are for....the manufacturer coated the wheel so that people would think it's stronger..and it would be distinct and stand out.. there's no real benefit to coating the wheel other than that... it's already a billet wheel...it's as strong as it's gonna be.....
@@boosted2.4_sky Filters still pass particles, especially in off road applications. Titanium is a surface hardening treatment. You don't normally see the compressor anyway, so why do it just for looks.
First things first. Very well made and informative video again right there :) much appreciated! ...
And boost is always the solution! Grab the biggest well made turbo that physically makes sense for your engine and turn up the boost to the max!
4,1 bar boost pressure (thats around 60 PSI) help to sort out ANY issues your car might have! cheap pistons, bad rods, weak head gaskets, old and chinsy gearboxes and even some differentials! :D
That's how you check the quality of your engine!
Yet another awesome installment, ❤ the gold assimilation, I was taking a sip of my drink and almost sprayed it all over! As always your videos are over the top. You are such a talented guy.
Thank you for the content. I'm from Singapore 🇸🇬, and I just came to know about your channel. Just wanna say your content is so solid with a lot of in depth explanation. Definitely widens knowledge of many others like myself who are interested in learning more. 👍🏻
Sunday morning D4A lessons are the best.
On a related note, ATS’s CT-21 Blackjack turbocharger upgrade is everything you want in a stock chassis upgrade. It comes on sooner, blows harder and doesn’t fall off at redline. I’ve only got about 3k miles on mine but I’m very glad I chose it.
I googled it, it's a twin scroll. What's this for?
@@d4a
SW20 MR2T and G5-6 Celica GT-Four. I’m not sure if they make a version for the other CT-2x chassis turbochargers in the G4 Celica, MKIII Supra and Hilux platforms. Their exhaust housings are all single entry.
I should be ashamed that I didn't recognise the turbo.
@@d4a
Not at all. This is my local tuning house but they’ve been improving this design for close to two decades now.
I should note that I sprung for all the upgrades. Machined exhaust housing for better flow, ported wastegate, upgraded wastegate actuator (1 atmos), coated exhaust housing and the billet compressor wheel upgrade.
Sounds top notch and seems you're happy with it, which is most important!
Just got my first turbo car (an STI) and I already know like 3x as much as a did a week ago from this and your EJ engine video. I can't believe how great this channel is. You're the man!
Thank you your boost school series. I'm learning so much from your information.
This videos are great! Thank you for taking the time and patience to do them. And please, keep making them!
D4A... great content. Really looking forward to the project underdog updates.
I'm a great fan of your videos . Amazing that your'e able to make a near-20 minutes video regarding con-rods, and every second is a pleasure. Keep up the EXCELLENt work
Great video as per usual. Learning a lot for my diesel.
I was considering making this exact comparison video in the future, but I think you did a way better job than I would! It is crazy the value proposition of these turbos.
If you want to learn way more about turbos than you thought you could for free, I highly recommend the channel TurboDirect S.A his videos will blow your mind with info.
The one other area I'd like to know about on these turbos is if the wheel is from a forged billet or not. Obviously a forged wheel is even another step up in advantages!
Enjoyed, Learned, Liked.
Love your content, can't wait for more vids.
Love from Slovakia
I thought I was subscribed already but I wasn't but definitely am now. I have actually learned some interesting information from this channel good stuff thanks you sir
dude your videos are so great and informative, keep it up
Thanks for making this video, just rebuilt my turbos for my 3000gt. I assumed billet turbines had an advantage, and you're the first person to confirm this, thanks for the info. 👍
One of my favorite cars ever, it's so slept on.
So I have an idea for a video I’d love to see from you. A video on brakes would be killer and it could be done through different videos. Like what the differences between blank slotted Drilled and slotted and just drilled rotors are. As well as what the differences between stock brakes and a big brake kit is as well as what’s in different brake pads and so on. It would be a neat series. I really enjoy your videos and in my opinion you are one of the best if not the best channel for explaining parts and everything in a way that is exceptional for visual learners!
great video. you really go deep into details. and I love it thank you. subbed and liked.
So I'm really, really, really thinking boosting my honda j30 & this helps tremendously
V6 gang.
learning something new every week as usual :) thanks!
Thank you for your continued support Thomas!
Best automotive channel on You Tube. Thanks for all of the excellent content.
Great analysis about trubo charges thank u!
Very vivid picture material and very good explained 👍👍
Nice video bud. Keep them coming!
I like those little humors in your videos😄👌 keep up these works!
Great video. I really do enjoy how you present and explain some complex subjects in a way that a dumb @rse like me can understand. I've learnt a lot through your videos. I'd really like to see more videos in the boost school series. Particularly how to read a compressor map and pick the right turbo for an application. Do you just need a video sponsor to make this happen?
I’m on a ebay Tb25 turbo so far on a daily driver for 2k miles. So far so good.
I just got the MaXpeedingRods rods turbo also to compare too.
Maxpeeding is just a reseller. My t3/t4 t04e ebay turbo outlasted my engine
@@turbone54 well did the engine blow?
I have had a $300 Amazon turbo running 20 psi for 4/5? Years
That turbo compressor joke is still cracking me up... 🤣 What is that music that plays when he "makes rain"?
Love this channel! Great informative videos....
This channel is extremely useful and educational.
tip: flip the angles wrench around, with the handle angles towards the thread side, if possible. this pulls the wrench more and more towards the bolt when applying torque, and makes it harder to round bolts!
6:31 titanium coated increases blade strength if running a pre turbo water setup make sure to run distilled water in a water setup you’d be surprised how much calcium wears out that wheel
TiN coating helps with longevity from small particulate like extremely fine dust that can get through the air filter but can be abrasive in large quantity over time.
Heck yea good stuff from my favorite channel.
So, in theory, if Dr. Emmett Brown had a twin-scroll turbocharger with a billet compressor wheel, a stainless steel turbine housing, and Inconel internals in his DeLorean combined with that monstrous flux capacitor, he could've easily had gotten to 88 miles per hour in around 5 seconds. He should've stopped by a tuning shop first instead of looking for Biff and Marty's family!
While everyone was crowing on about hoverboards in 2015, i was wanting Goldie Wilson Hover Conversions so we could all have flying shitbox 90's Hondas.
@@JimBrodie lmao! "Fly your ek's and ej's in no time to rice meets with our all-new Hover-Tech cams!" 😂😂
That CNC machined billet turbo compressor wheel is a thing of real beauty.
Great content as always 👍👍
Thanks for sharing very useful content
Awesome as always.
Informative video brother love from India❤
BOOOOOOSSSSTTT SCCCCHOOOOOOLLLLLL. 🐌 Great video as always! 👍 I'm interested to hear about the ball bearing vs journal bearing turbos.
Always a pleasure when I get a notification from you
That’s what she said
Hey buddy, I currently run the OEM VF53 twin-scroll turbo on my 13' STI Spec C. Will the Racing Turbo GT 28 do more boost? I love the work you do. I just subscribed! Cheers!
Another fantastic video
I am so glad you have merchandise to purchase! How about some hats?! I'd wear it all the time! Probably have to start with 2 of them!
The color on the compressor housing could be hard anodizing which would have some functionality
I have a friend that had a 1g eclipse gsx that was built to hell and back. He would only buy the cheapo $100 giant turbos and they'd only ever last a season. He'd then just buy another. I never understood why he didn't just buy the more expensive stronger turbo when over the span of a few years the cost added up to the expensive unit anyway. I wish I could go back in time 15 years and show him your video!!
Love your videos because of you i started my own channel and hopefully oneday my videos will be as good as yours keep up the good work
wonder if the borg warner EFR series of turbochargers still the holy grail of turbos. Haven't really been keeping up to date like I used to.
Hi mate, can you do a vid on valves, how they are made and valve material technologies? Inconel, Nitride, etc.
I have Owens Development Gbt5471 turbo its a beast of a unit 😍
Thanks!!
So basically, get a junkyard LS, buy two cheap eBay GT3582 turbos and absolutely obliterate almost anything that isn’t a serious build for less than this month’s rent (depending on where you live I suppose)
Until the 5.3 spills it's guts. Go fir a 6.0 iron block ..... Still less than a months rent/mortgage.... 🤷♂️😁
Ls is overated unless built with forged components at that point its about 5 grand for a proper ls
@@frontspring1 or...you could just stick to low boost and not rev it to the moon and enjoy the reliability.
@@lynnmckenney1987 what's the fun in doing that
@@frontspring1 what's the fun in a fast, reliable and *moderately* cheap build?
Hmm...no idea.....*scratches chin*
🙃
Love your stuff.
Already watched 5-6 videos and likted it very much and thinking why I'm not subscribed yet!? Well, I am now.
Hello, can you make comparison between turbo and centrifugal supercharger? I cannot decide which one should I put on my car. Both seems cool 👍🏾
All your vids are A++
Very informative but I wouldn't categorize the cheap turbo as a bad one but as a less performant one, for daily driving and once in a while boost to pass the cars faster is fun enough, yes the risk of damaging it faster than the more expensive turbo is high but for a fun project worth the money even if it blows or cracks. I already got a cheap one and can't wait to try it, if it blows, I'm buying a GTR one. Or I'll change the broken parts to new better ones from my local turbo fixing shop.
BOOST SCHOOL. The only school we need !
My only favorite school BOOST SCHOOL with DFA🚘👌🐌🚀
Good work
Journal bearings do handle street abuse better than ball bearings. A racing set-up on the other hand shows the sustained high rpm and abuse are better suited for ball and ceramic bearings. Yes, they cost a lot more money. I am not saying the journal bearings won't work, so I guess it's like buying insurance, ...or bragging rights! Take note, everything spun around has a resonation point allowing cavitation and ware. The bearing turbo will have much less resonation due to better, tighter tolerances Great Video!! You rock!
Thank u 💜🙏
please make a details video on super chargers
Thats why i always laugh at people when they say running a BOV/ BPV Blanking plate and forcing the Turbo to Flutter/Surge is fine and that it dont harm the Turbos lifespan.
But they dont realise when you say making 15psi boost and let off the gas, the air that makes turbo flutter and stall is coming back at 15psi its no different to taking a rubber mullet and wacking the compressor wheel directly with 15psi of force (if its 4" squared surface area thats equal to hitting compressor wheel with 60 pounds of force with a hammer.) Over short time it DOES Damage the turbo and bearings in it,
Specially Journal Bearing Turbos which are not designed to take in /out thrust loads
Rough Guide for average Turbo Life Span is (only for new water/oil cooled turbos given a proper warm up & cool down periods.
- Journal Bearing Turbo (like a TD04 on Subaru) Should Last 300,000km - 350,000km without issues till the Ring Seals Wear out.
- Ball bearing Turbo Should last 150,000-200,000km Without issues until the bearing need to be replaced.
(Journal bearings tend to last Much Much longer in ALL Applications and why they are used in train axles as BB Can't Take the Loads. While Journal bearings actually have Zero contact Parts and Float on a Film of Oil, where as BB turbos roll on little ball bearings, just like a Train Axle there is no Ball Bearings in there as they cant handle 20 tonnes per square inch like journal bearings can handle much higher load up until oil in squeazed so hard it boils or ignites)
I run a maxpeeding rods GT3582 in my 2.0l 420a and that thing is amazing for the price and yes it can handle a lot
Yo. The titianum coating keeps the turbine from getting "dusted" from running no or a large grain air filter
What about compound turbó charging?
I'm grateful for this very informative video. That drill bit would have a titanium nitride coating rather than titanium, which gives it tremendously increased surface hardness. I wonder if this is what's on the turbine wheel and why.
When people say"titanium coated " they mean Ti nitride...I think almost everyone knows it isn't titanium.....
@@boosted2.4_sky I did not know that.
great video
I'd like to know more about turbo flanges, because I get lost with them!
My day is made!!😇😇
Can you sharpen the front part of the turbo blades like a razor blade to have more air flow.
Break the ceramic portion of a spark plug and throw a small piece at a pane of glass lightly. It will explode with unexpected sound and energy . When the outer surface of cast metal is cooling its trapping heat inside and distorting the grain structure because it's cooling unevenly and trapping forces inside , that's why some parts are stress relieved. Billet has a much greater time to cool then is cold machined in a cnc. The typical culprit of a failed turbo is the chra cartridge failing and allowing the wheel to make contact with the housing. Incolnel turbine wheels are the strongest , typically you fail on the compressor side aka precision turbos vs garett chra center sections. You'll be smoking and breaking compressors way before you'll have a housing failure.
Honestly I clicked on this expecting to hear about the compressor's ability to create a low pressure zone where strength was related to power, but the structural bits were interesting too.
The anodized coating helps combat counterfeiting turbos.
I get 18 psi maximum boost on my 2001 Dodge 3500 with the stock turbo on the 5.9 liter Cummins diesel engine. I really would like more boost but not for increased power but instead more boost for the same power lowers the Exhaust gas temperature. With the stock setup I can pull my 30' toyhauler up most any grade while watching the EGT very carefully and making sure it doesn't exceed 1200 degrees F. There are a few grades near my home (within 150 miles) where I need to use a power pedal setting that requires I slow down and downshift to keep the EGT under control. There's plenty of power but it's not usable in these conditions.
Have you done any videos on upgrading turbos on a diesel pickup? I want to run a twin turbo setup with a large atmospheric turbo and a smaller compressed side turbo, basically in a series setup. I'd like to know if you've done any videos on setups like this.
@driving4answers can u suggest standalone ecu for motorcycle application with ride by wire.
ty for video! GJ
Man. I remember when factory-equivalent turbos cost a thousand bucks or more.
The titanium-nitride coating on the more expensive turbo will survive abrasion better, which means it's designed for idiots who run without air filters to get that extra 1.5hp out of their racing engines.
When you're pushing 700+ hp, depending on design, your air filter can become an obstruction lol. I'm sure you know that tho right
Aw... no tutorial for the exhaust side? The process and tools used for the blades are pretty entertaining to watch
I’d love to see a comparison between this and an eBay gt45 turbo
Man , we need an every gearbox sensor video
Keep killing it bro
Real man(ual) transmissions don’t need any sensors.
Maybe a reverse switch.
A 360 degree thrust bearing from a TD04 rebuild kit is a common upgrade for these maxpeedingrods turbos.
Is there a ball bearing turbo u can recommend for high performance track use and high boost?
I've found component weight makes little difference to spool up time, I went from a td06 sl2 11-blade stock clipped style turbine that weighed 223g to a 9-blade taller and flatter blade discharge angle turbine that weighed 267g and it comes on boost faster, ignoring the extra weight. I'd posit the weight is not far from the centre of the shaft so the effect is small. If you've seen the stock sl2 turbine, it's a crappy design
The cheap ones are good to get you some power for a while. I use 2 of them for a drag car, I wouldn't use them for a daily driver where reliability would come into play. I got them because when I destroy the engine and send junk into the turbos, oh well send it all to the scrap pile. That and it's only used for a short run at a time.
Its been years since i built a nice knock around sleeper.... and after watching this video i got the itch to build myself a another one. The old one died a painful death when the timing belt broke and bent the valves. I wonder what kind of car i should start with??? Toyota matrix? Honda Civic? Maybe a Kia???
Pick one with a non-interference engine... I.E. one that the valves cannot ever hit to pistons when you break your cam drive belt or chain.
Another boost school episode!
Very interesting episode my turbo have ceramic blade on the hotside in one of my mr2s and the other have stainless steel on the hotside. If I want to change turbo what do you recomend to use that are just a litle more power then the ct20b?. Thanks for the episode allways learn something News.
Ct20b is hilux and land cruiser right? Well for "just a bit" more power the easiest bit is probably the same turbo but with upgraded parts? I see a bunch of companies offer that online. It depends obviously where you live as turbo shipping is sometimes more expensive than the turbo 😁
@@d4a the ct20b is used on 3sgte gen3.
I love your videos