Zinsser 123 plus - Stopping water stains from bleeding through paint
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- Stopping water stains bleeding through paint, various ways to stop the stain showing through your emulsion.
Here I test out on a real job stopping bad water stains from coming back... we hope! lol
Zinsser 123 plus is a water based paint that will stop water stains, lets put it to the test.
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Hi Phil, I've been using 123+ for a good few years now and its one of the best primer sealers around in my opinion. Like you mentioned, it doesn't completely obliterate the stains like an oil based product does, what it does do is envelope the stain to allow the top coats to obliterate with better opacity. Because it acts and performs differently to oil based products, a lot of people think that because a stain can still be slightly visible through it, it's not working, but it is. Great video again.
I've been back on that job this week... it's not got any worse through the 3x coats of 123+
The ceiling will be painted next week.. I'm quite hopeful it won't stain through.
My 100 year old house has a lathe and plaster ceiling overboarded with a kind of fiber board. I skim coated it with joint compound to hide the really bad taping job and the oils or something from the fiber board just bled through everywhere. So I painted it with ONE coat of BIN (the oil based would have worked also) followed by two coats of water-based ceiling paint. Worked great. All those Zinsser stain blocking primers are bonding coats too - you can apply them to any surface and cover them with either water or oil based paints. Of course, try to find an oil based paint these days! BIN is very expensive, but so is your time!
I have used it, it does work... I can see the advantages of being able to spray it... But, I have to say, if you're like me and don't spray, 3 coats is a real put off. Especially if you have a lot to do. The gold one, while it is fumey, works. One coat. Never had any trouble going over it with emulsion...dries off in under an hour, good to go. It costs me a roller sleeve, as I don't want to clean it out, and get rid of the spirit! Fumes die down after the first coat of emulsion. It has its place. It's good to have a water based option...but it has to cure to stop the stain, and rushing the 3 coats keeps it damp and is counter productive... The extra labour time, and the extra cost of the paint itself (X3) means I'll use it when it becomes my best option! Great vid, nice to read the comments too!
it has it's place, if you spray it, you'll get three coats on no problem. with a good coverage. the brushed coats I did.. have held back the stains.
The purpose of this product, just like any other water borne stain blockers,like dulux percission we use in new zealand ,is to block the stain migrating though your top coats..it will still bleed after you spot your stains but will block the stain coming though the topcoats..
They do work,saves time and less stink for traditional oil based products..
correct, ppl expect the product to stop the staining with the product... it's not that type of paint, it encapsulates the issues and holds it back for other paints to be painted over it.
Thanks for commenting :)
Nice to see proper tradesmen doing it how we do it in old NZ.
I enjoy your channel,well done on your top notch work..
Shame everyone doesn't think and try these new waterborne products..they defo do work.
Makes life easier..
Cheers
Great video. I am indeed utterly confused with all this zinsser red, yellow, blue! Nonsense. I mean company try and keep it simple!😂👍
And that tin is Turquoise lol
Johnstone stainaway water based in any colour finish it works BUT leave it 4 hours works better. Superb stuff .
I think Zinnser make all Johnstones stainblockers.
You are right in that like the 123+ and Isomat Block Primer, Stain Away is an encapsulating primer and so pulls the stain in on the first coat putting the importance on allowing it to cure and hold the stain as opposed to more film thickness. Zinsser do not however make all Johnstone’s primers. They make advanced stain block and a 2 pack floor paint. Stainaway is actually one of Johnstones better products that comes from Europe and was first specified on a visit to Manchester Arena following the bombings.
Thanks for sharing!
I think the point here is that 123+ works (albeit with three coats) but not necessarily better than BIN. In fact, I'd keep tabs on that crown molding (do you call it coping?) - it might just slow down the bleeding and look bad in a month. The cost of good material rarely exceeds the extra labor required with poor substitutes.
Correct. It does work. This was done last June/July. I've been back to the job this year and it's fine, no bleeding.
Remember, when applying it, it doesn't obliterate the stain, it will show but it's trapped in by the coatings.
Let's face it, BIN isn't the easiest to apply to get a nice smooth finish over large areas . And it does smell.
123+ doesn't.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator Phil, thanks for the video. Very interesting. BIN does smell - I would have used a solvent filter mask but I didn't have one. So I just opened all the doors :-) Just a couple other points. BIN doesn't really "cover" well or look finished, but it is just a primer. The ceiling looked great after a couple coats of flat paint. I'm just an inexperienced hack, but (until now) I wasn't sure 123 (I didn't know about +) would work. Still, 3 coats instead of 1? My labor is free (to me!) but the labor to apply 2 more coats of primer probably costs more than the extra $$$ for BIN (which is VERY expensive for primer). As a pro, which would you use on a job?
@@doobiedoghousewilson you know over a water stain that's dry... You can just use oil undercoat.. scrub it out so it's not going to take ages to dry.
On smaller areas I use PolyCell Stain block in a rattle can, or BIN or Rogers and Smith Blockade in a rattle can.
Sometime the stain will still bleed through the 123+ that doesn't mean it's not working, if you read the tin it does state that stains can still be seen through the stain block but applying 2x topcoats will cover it.
Yeah, I mentioned that in the video.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator ahh no worries I must have missed that part.
@@jas.5695 Feel free to watch again and put another £0.002 into tye Porsche fund ;) lol
Hi Phil, I need to blank out some water stains on an artexed ceiling before painting. Can you please recommend a product suitable for this which can then be painted over with waterbased topcoats or acrylic primer then topcoats as I won’t be able to sand to key the stain blocker due to the artex. Domestic project so preferably something available in 1L or less. Thank you 👍🏻
A couple of light waft coats of either... Rattle cans.
Smith and Roger Blockade.
PolyCell Stain Block
Zinsser BIN
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator many thanks 👍🏻 would you then prime over with acrylic or simply paint the two topcoats
Zinsser grade 1 is great paint for problem ceilings, dries fast and flat, blocks stains as well but a bit pricey
oh it is, it's also oil based.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator just used 60 litres of grade 1 on some very bad church walls and it sorted them out nicely, well worth the money
Polycell stain block all the way mate in a spray can or tin.
One coat,i use the spray ,Its never let me down.
Why paint something 3 times.
Phill .🤔
Whe
Having options is always good ;)
Great video will try it out. The one thing I find with using coveratain on stains such as ceiling. It can really effect the finish as the trying times are different when you paint over o/b stains block.
It will do. Your top coat can't soak in and dry as fast as the original substrate which would be waterbase.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator long as you use a flat mate and nothing with vinyl. I find OK. But 123+ will be the one now has for some time I've not liked coverstain on ceilings.
@@richardloze5994 The solution I've found when I saw the Cover Stain flashing through was to go over with B-I-N then when the emulsion dries there's zero flashing.
Toatal shite just better of getting the shellac based dry in 15- 25 mins and is much better also much better on cold days
would you want to roll or rush large areas though with a shellac based product.. or would spraying 123+ over large areas .. 2 or 3 coats... be a whole lot easier........................... as those stains I went over.. with a brush.. still haven't come through yet.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecoratorthey do bin in aerosol form which would fly those areas...
Did it totally obliterate with the final emulsion top coat (how many emulsion coats ?)
Thanks for great content 😊
once you'd done your 123+ coats (read the can) I just did two coats of Tikkurila Ar2
Thanks for the video Phil, proper walk through of our product.
Glad it was helpful! lol
fingers crossed when it's painted over :)
123 is rubbery as well hate the stuff, Plus is great totally different , despite being thinner it covers well dries quickly and blocks tannins. Does one even need knotting?
yep.. as 123+ doesn't stop Knotts.... neither does 123, or CoverStain.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator But BIN does😁
@@bitTorrenter and AquaBIN
Great Product review thanks
Thanks for watching!
Hi Phil enjoy your video,s I not tried it I do loads of this water damage work and always use zinsser coverplus but who,s got time for 3 coat,s really ,nice tho not having that smell ,keep up the good work
Cheers. I think you need to weigh up the ease of using waterbased over an oil based product where you'd be best to be finish coating with emulsion the next day. With the 123+ it's an hour.
Why don't you use bin...much quicker works every time no problems...tried conversation and 123 + and they are really poor
@@davewright9312 I do use BIN now and then but unfortunetly most of my jobs are high humidity area,s so Coverstain is the right product
Well phill. I tried the 123+ on a bad water stain today. Done 3 coats and it let me down. Gonna stick to the coverstain works in 1 coat. Needs more work the 123+ for water stains.
did you spray it or roller it like it says on the can? No stains come through on my ceiling.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I used a roller . Then two coats of pefact mattt . I left it drying at the end of the day. But I could see the water mark coming through.
@@richardloze5994 and it was the 123+?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator ya it was the 123+ tell ya what bloody expensive as well..
@@richardloze5994 😂🪙🪙🪙
Great video as usual! quick question - can you use this product on wood/mdf? :)
Yes. It's just like a primer/Uc paint.
Other videos I should you using it on staircase and MDF panels
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator many thanks! :D
see my comment above.
It's actually good
Hi Great vid. What would you suggest for nicotine ceilings?
hi, oil undercoat.
or look at Zinsser All Coat Primer & Finish, that goes over anything like that. But isn' cheap like oil undercoat, but is a primer and finish in one.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator ho many cots of oil undecoat? then is it emulsion on top?
@@arfanjhangir8465 one coat of oil undercoat should be plenty
@@arfanjhangir8465 one coat of oil undercoat should be plenty
Always found 123 too thin and longer drying than BIN. Just pay a few quid extra for BIN and make more money in less time
BIN is shellac based.. and is classed as spirit based (meths) which evaporates , so it does dry quicker than water based.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator why the need for 123 over BIN though?
@@raywilson3166 you wouldn't need.
If it works will you use it as your go to product moving forward? Always found Plastikote stain sealer in a rattle can works well for me.
used it again today... left it an hour then coated the ceiling... all looks good. Stain Block in a rattle can is easy to use and dries fast.. it's handy to keep on the van.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator thanks Phil, one to consider then 👍
Why don’t u use cover stain Zinsser much better then this.
you can use normal oil based Undercoat as well, but you need to wait till next day to paint over it, being oil based.
coverstain is oil based, thins and wash out with white spirit.
123+, water based, so wash out with water.
So it didn’t actually cover the water stain even after 3 coats!!! That’s not exactly good
The product isn't supposed to cover the stain, it encapsulates it, so you may see it through the 123+, but once you paint over it with two coats of your emulsion the 123+ holds the water stain from coming through.
If you read the back of the can it says spray it or roller it on.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator ah I see so it dulls it and when you then repaint it doesn’t show through..
Cheers
@@Roger92F that's the idea.
That is a very bad water stain! Looks still wet to me!
How long does that stuff take to dry Phil?
Love the polysill spray! Quality coverage, very quick drying and reasonably flat being spray not heavy brush or roller marks
its dry, all the house plumbing has been re configured.
this stuff is crap phil got the coverage of semi skimmed milk ive used it and giving many chances especially for stain blocking. better to use coverstain or just cheaper oil undercoat though i dont rate covestain all that much. the regular 123 can be used on ferrous metals so they say. though i wouldnt risk using it for that sounds bs to me. for the price of this stuff i wouldnt say havent to 3 coat a stain is good. owatrol oil is good for stain blocking use that on smoke stains etc and denatured timber and rust works a treat on plaster beads to emulsion adhesion cause people always just slap emulsion straight over corner beads even on new builds they do and you always get paint peeling off of beads or rusting especially on exterior ferrous or galvanized beads add enough of it to your oil paints and it make it adhere to anything.
have to say the stains haven't come through on the painted ceiling.. that has AR2 on it.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator yes i suppose its ok for a water based blocker but that fact you have to 2-3 coat it and it only works half the time and the bloody price of it and it has zero coverage acrylic paints are just such hard work and they hammer your gear after constant use. the best system is still oil primer oil undercoat oil gloss cant beat it we've all been using that system for donkey years so i see no reason for all this change especially to inferior products.
@@jackwardley3626 let's look at it another way.
It's advised to spray or roller it... 2-3 coats is best.
If you're had a large area to coat up and you have a sprayer, it's easy to coat up three coats.. it's fast drying and you'll easily coat it.
That ceiling I sprayed last week and the stain hadn't shown back up when I left the job this week.
Would I spray a large ceiling with oil Uc paint... BIN.. or Coverstain??
No, but I would spray a ceiling with a product that drys fast and is easy to clean out spray equipment.
I've used it on a load of MDF paneling too.. it covers well on that lol.
But yes.. it's expensive primer.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator yeah fair enough phil is a ok product for stain blocking but for the price haven to 2-3 coat a stain is ridiculous and the adhesion it claims isnt there oil undercoat oil primers have better adhesion put it on plastic and you can scratch it fairly easy oil undercoat had to really dig at it the jono's aqua undercoat has much better adhesion especially over old yellowed gloss tested without sanding and stuck to it like heck not with zinsser 123 plus i have tried jono's stainaway for nicotine stains on large surfaces and that was really good as thick as oil undercoat
this stuff is absolute garbage! its caused me a nightmare on a job!
why was that?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator it pulled the stains out of new accoya and allowed them to go through the top coats on some brand new windows! Zinsser rep came had a scrap piece tested said I hadn’t put enough microns on! Wtf. So if you’re a few microns short it’s no good 🤷🏽♂️
Absolute crap! Total con as normal primer would of been fine.
Zinsser recommend I use that stuff even though there wasn’t any stains to start with!
what did you do, give it another coat?
Wobbly eyebrows
Spray bleach mixed with water fo water stains?
Why would you do that?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator and stain is gone?
Does it?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator Try it?