The Best Stain Blocking Primer: What You Need To Know
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- Do you have waters stains, marker spots, and food stains on your walls or ceilings? Are you concerned that the expensive paint you just bought won't cover up those handprints and scuff marks? Fear no more, Jeremy of Super Vassar Brothers will show you the best primer and how to use it, so your paint job will be the envy of the town.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:48 What It Is
2:50 Best Uses
4:51 Competition & Cost
5:29 How to Apply Safely
9:06 Conclusion
Get Bad To The Bone by George Thorogood & The Destroyers and over
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I was contracted to restore an apartment that had been essentially used as a kennel on the first floor. It reeked horribly dog feces and urine odors, a laminated kitchen counter had been burned and medium to heavy sooted walls and ceilings needed to be covered, and circles of various colors needed to be covered in an upstairs bedroom. Carpet was removed and then I shellaced all walls and ceilings, and put 3 coats on the downstairs floors and one upstairs in case there were spots upstairs. Owner waited several weeks before installing the new carpet, just to be sure the odors weren't coming back. I seldom vouch for any product, but this is one superior product.
You nailed. That’s the perfect application for BIN. It’s still our nuclear option for stuff like that
@@SuperVassarBrothers I am dealing with a simialar scenario. The shellac paint odor is still very strong coming from the floor. Any recommendations to get rid of the odor?
@@Curtisvon1did you work out what needed to be done? Or did you just give it time?
Very good video. I have tried a lot of primers and found that this product works very well for the applications you mentioned. The quick drying time is a plus. Very helpful and informative!!
I’m glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent review on this amazing product. You covered all the bases. There’s Shellac and there’s everything else. Makes a phenomenal clear topcoat and when French polished the most beautiful finish ever. Shellac have been found in Egyptian tombs thousands of years old.
It’s pretty crazy how long it’s been in use. My hat is off to whoever figured that out 🫡
This is my go-to for priming anything that was previously stained and/or top coated with poly (trim, doors, cabinets, etc.). A very light sanding is all you need and it sticks like glue. I soak my brushes in ammonia and water overnight, but toss any roller sleeves.
That’s the move. It’s our go-to for that application as well 🫡
I have just used this product to cover up wood knots coming through the paintwork, worked really well! But the smell is quite something, also you have to apply it quickly as it evaporates so fast and the paint starts getting more viscous.
That’s a great use for it too and you’re right about laying it down quickly!
Thanks for the cabinet grain idea!
🫡
Great vid, thanks - there's a couple of things I'd add.. after using this product for many years I found that even after it has dried on a brush, you can revive the brush with denatured alcohol ("Methylated spirits" where I come from). I keep the same brush for several uses and there's no need to throw it in the trash every time, just wrap it in a plastic bag, rollers could be saved but may take a lot of alcohol so not as worthwhile.... I don't know any other commercial paints that you can do this with! Also after a while on a hot day, the primer thickens up too much to flow easily and can be thinned with alcohol/ meths. Oh, and for water stains and dark colours I always do 2 coats - the second one quickly so as not to pick up the first!
All good things. Thanks for the additions!
Checking out your video while painting with Bin for the first time ever, very helpful! Only thing I'd add is that 3M makes organic vapor respirator cartridges that work a little bit better than the P100 ones. I was using BIN in a very small room, and even with ventilation the fumes were starting to come through the P100.
Yes indeed. The fumes are aggressive. Make sure you really tighten that mask down too!
This is my go-to product for prepping my woodwork before painting it white. Every other primer led to bleed through. Smells but effective.
Agreed! That’s been our experience as well 🫡
Thnx for filming and narrating !
Thanks for this video!!! I have not used this product yet. You directed me to this video when i had questions about a 22'x28' room with 12' ceilings with minor soot stains. Question. If it is really runny what about runs or height differences and overlaps in roller marks . Is that going to be seen through into the top coat? This house has wood floors and wood stained trim around windows and baseboard. Will a standard drop cloth with a vinyl back work or do i need to use plastic if it will ruin my drop cloths. Will brush marks flash through. You guys are awesome. I am sending people to your site. Great videos!!!
Lap marks and seeing the brush strokes have more to do with how you’re laying the product down. It levels out well cause it’s quite watery.
As far as drop cloths go, the ones you’re talking about will work fine. Be careful if you get a big spill, but other than that you should be good. I’d recommend taping off the trim and window casings with yellow frog tape to prevent them from getting hit with splatter.
Nice video, I'm a big fan of the BIN as well. Fun fact: that very same lac-resin is also commonly used as a shiny coating for produce such as apples and oranges...yum yum!🤢
That’s a less fun fact 🥴
Please be kidding
Great video! Fun fact..don't use it in bathrooms or anywhere with high moisture and humidity. It used to say it on the can
Hmmm, I’m curious as to why that would be. It’s not like that’s the coat that would be exposed to the moisture. We always use a finish paint that has moisture and mold blocking agents built into it. I feel like that would seal in the shellac from the moisture 🤷♂️
Have you used insl-x prime lock? Curious if the blocking capability is close to Bin and maybe easier to use. Thank you.
I have not had any experience with that product. Looks to an oil-based primer similar to others I have used. I would wager a guess that BIN is still the champ in this category but again I haven’t used prime lock 🤷♂️
I'm using bin on a small project. Was wondering what grit I sand it with before I paint my top coat
220
Another use of this awesome primer is to apply it over silicone caulking before painting to prevent beading.
That's a good call. It's always a fun time when one of the carpenters we work behind uses silicone, but then claims that he swear's he thought it was paintable :/
Great video. Would this product work to cover up / seal in bad smelling paint from “wall order phenomenon” that we are experiencing after painting antique plaster walls? We use the exact same paint can for other rooms in our house but only one room had this reaction. Thanks!
I haven't experienced that phenomenon myself, but a lot of remediation / restoration companies use BIN to seal in things like cat pee and smoke stains / odors. If I were in your shoes I'd use BIN and then go over it with new finish paint.
@@SuperVassarBrothers Thanks for your help! BIN definitely appears to be a possible solution to our problem.
Great video. I have some 1970s wood paneling in a house that was smoked in before we bought it. I tried TSP substitute, Coverstain, and two coats of latex paint, but after a couple months there was some bleed through in a large test area. Now I'm trying BIN, but I'm afraid I'll still get bleed through. After rolling on one coat, you can still see the grain of the wood through the BIN. Is that normal, and can I go ahead and do two coats of latex, or do i need to apply a second and/or third coat until it's a solid white everywhere?
The BIN will block any tannin bleed through you may be getting. I’m assuming that’s the grain effect you’re trying to mitigate. One coat of BIN and then hit it with your latex. If that doesn’t do it then I’m out of suggestions 🤷♂️
@@SuperVassarBrothers I appreciate your reply. I'm not sure if it was tannins or nicotine coming through the Coverstain + latex. With the BIN, I just wanted to make sure the single (somewhat transparent) coat would be enough to block whatever is coming through, better than the Coverstain. The latex should be thick enough to hide the grain, I just don't want any brownish bleed through and am on the fence about another coat of BIN to try to get it thicker before the latex, or if the current thin layer is probably going to be good enough.
@@wrbbbbI am currently stripping popcorn off an older 1970s condo that was smoked in for years and the popcorn picked up the nicotine smell quite well. Just read that nicotine is water soulable and simply painting over it without using tsp or soap and water to wash it off before painting will still cause bleed through of that aspect is not dealt with beforehand. I did not know they nicotine was water soulable, so hopefully bin will work that out. Thanks for the info
@@jody2873 how did it go? I need to cover up the odours and stains from a smoker. Looks like BIN will be the primer.
Good info- thanks!
Bin priming a smokers ceiling today😑...
CAN'T WAIT😑😑😑
You have the correct emotional response to that particular task. I wish you luck 🫡😑
How did it go painting the ceiling? Can Zinsser BIN be sprayed? Popcorn ceiling so not much choice. Any suggestions for doing so?
@@SuperVassarBrothers ...that sucked even more than I remembered
@@swes2934 well, the process wasn't fun and I looked like a hazmat worker, rolled it because there were 2 beds and furniture in the room as well 😑 which really sucked, BUT...the owner came back after airing it out for a few days and says she can't detect any nicotine smell at all- which was the main goal! I could smell the nicotine when I sprayed the popcorn with water before scraping it off, and she said that humid days really accentuated that smell, so it definitely works and I think it's probably the best for that problem and most any molds and mildew, etc.
I haven't sprayed BIN myself, but ran into a painter when I was buying it as she said they had to spray a whole living room/dining room with it and it came out like butter ( which is good- because butter is my favorite) , so it's sprayable as well.
It actually covered better than I thought it would without lap marks and was pretty solid white - I think they have added more pigment over the years?¿
Good luck with your BINning!
@@jody2873 Awesome. Thank you so much for the detailed information.
For door jambs is it better to apply with a brush or paint sprayer? I am new to this and want to paint my door jambs. For painting I am planning to try to use the sprayer for an even paint without brush strokes but wasn’t sure about the primer. Thank you in advance.
Spraying can be tricky if you don't have much experience. I'd recommend using a brush. This video may be helpful for you: th-cam.com/video/YbIaghaksMM/w-d-xo.html
I am in the process of using this to cover some old wood paneling . It was really setting up and getting tacky quick. My brother ended up using a sprayer for most that we have accomplished. Any tips on how to not have this issue if we just roll on ? I also have ceiling beams that re stained so may be a better option to spray ?
You wanna make sure you’re minimizing the amount of air is hitting the surface of BIN that’s in your rolling pan. When you’re not rolling cover it with a tray liner or a trash bag. In general I’d cut in everything then roll all at once. 1/2 inch pro-doo-z works well and holds plenty BIN to cover a decent area. As far as the beams go, I’m not sure spraying would do a better job. Without seeing what you’re dealing with I’m just making an educated guess at the issue. Keep in mind that BIN is somewhat transparent. You’ll see the stains after applying it. The test is when you go over it with your finish paint. If it bleeds through then, then that’s an issue. Usually if that happens it’s the knots in the wood that come through. Then you can spot hit it with BIN and you should be good.
Have you sprayed this product? It really is the best, but I'm afraid to run it through my sprayer and have trouble cleaning it out after. I usually spray the Cover Stain from Zinnser.
Also, when rolling it helps to only roll up at first, until most of the product is out of the roller.
I know several crews that spray it. You just gotta use the right product to clean it out. Denatured alcohol or ammonia.
Definitely light pressure on the roller is the move 🤙
BIN is way easier on your pump, the viscosity is way less than oil coverstain. I use cheap graco x7's for BIN and never clean them out, they have been in BIN for over 2 years and I use them 1-2 times per month. 1 is for white and off white tinted BIN, the other is for gray tinted BIN for dark colors. Tape and plastic on the can, take the tip, leave a little pressure in the line, good to go.
2 questions: 1) for raw wood new cabinets, would you use BIN or the new smart prime (both from Zinsser) 2) if I prayed the Bin (airless), how do I clean it?
I don’t think you need to use BIN for raw wood. There are a lot of wood primers that would work. Fresh start is a good product from Benny Moore that I use a lot for raw wood. Then you can go over it with whatever finish paint you want. I’m not sure what the equivalent product from Zinsser is off of the top of my head.
Same question but with raw MDF. Would shellac be a better option to prep for paint or would Fresh Start be the way to go?
Can you use this on concrete before laying down LVP flooring. Dealing with 8 years of urine smell have cleaned with TSP and Natures Miracle.
Yes you can apply BIN to concrete. A lot of remediation companies use it for the application you’re talking about. You can even do a second coat if you think the odor is coming through after the first coat.
I use this product on a cellilng to hide some yellow stains. I spot prime a few areas and when it dry. I use Pro Mar celling paint fir my topcoat and I'm. Saw some flashing where i prime at. How do i get rid of that. Or should i use the waterborn one insted of the oil base. Need help.
We do that same process quite often. The areas that have been hit with BIN will dry more slowly than the rest of the ceiling and it can sometimes look like flashing. We’ve never had issues when we do two topcoats of Promar. Take a look at it once it’s fully dry. You should be good to go
@@SuperVassarBrothers thank you so much i’m thinking that I didn’t let it fully dry before I put the topcoat on there. I end up putting four codes then I decided just to leave. Hopefully it dries well. Cross my fingers 🤞
Can you throw texture straight on top of shellac? I skim coated my walls because I wanted to get rid of the old texture and re texture everything. But I still have a slight smell from smokers and I want to get rid of it. So, instead of using a coat PVA to seal the walls, can just use shellac and then texture on top? Or do I need to shellac and then pva again?
You can go straight over the shellac. It has an eggshell-like finish similar to other primers.
Not sure if this is covered anywhere in any of your videos, or in the comments, but will acrylic paint adhere to this or am I just setting myself up for failure down the line?
Acrylic paint will definitely adhere to it. That’s what I used over top the walls after I used BIN. You’re good to go sir 🫡
@@SuperVassarBrothers You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Do you think this could cover whiteboard paint? If so, should I sand the whiteboard paint first with 220 or something?
For sure it would but I think you could get away with a less intense product. Sand it with 150 grit then hit it with fresh start primer. I’m fairly confident that would get a good bond then you can go over it with your finish paint. Here’s a video on fresh start: Fresh Start: The Best Primer You've Never Heard Of
th-cam.com/video/jydQq4jHOnE/w-d-xo.html
Would the water-based BIN primer work too?
It most definitely will not work the same way that the regular shellac based BIN works. Water based primers (in general) do a poor job of coving stains.
Is this a decent choice for painting red/dark maroon walls to white? I’ve been researching online for hours and I’m probably going to use this one but still unclear hahaha, so many opinions
This product would be overkill for what you're talking about. I'd recommend using something like Fresh Start from Benjamin Moore. It's 100% acrylic, super easy to work with, and doesn't have any harsh fumes like BIN. It does well with going from dark to light colors and vice versa. You may still have to do 3 coats of your finish paint if it's white, but that's still an easier process than using BIN on all the walls.
@@SuperVassarBrothers wonderful thank you! And I’ve already got sherwin Williams white paint, I assume that’s okay to put on top of Benjamin Moore fresh start primer? Thank you again for your time!
How do you thinner shellac primer? Some body can tellme please i never used... should i use white spirit or buy alcohol o amonia thanks
Acetone is the move for thinning / removing shellac. Keep in mind that BIN is super thin and runny to begin with. Give it a try before you add anything to it.
@@SuperVassarBrothers thanks for answer where i live they dont sell bin primer but the company can order it
Oh, oops. Didn’t know I needed to wear a p100 respirator before using. The fumes didn’t really bother me too bad. It certainly does splatter everywhere and is difficult to scrub off your arms, so wear long sleeves along with gloves. I first did a coat of Peel Stop in my bathroom. I had to do 2-coats because I was getting some alligator peeling with my first coat over the areas that were patched with all purpose compound.
Yeah I hear yah on the splatter. Using a mask is a good idea particularly if you’re using a lot of it. At least I’d recommend opening the windows and use a fan to keep some air moving, but to each his own. If you wanna pull a Towelie and get high as balls then that’s also an option 🤙
@@SuperVassarBrothers I actually feel like the latex acrylic paint i used after smells worse.
Can you use this on exterior wood trim?
Sort of…you can spot prime knots in the wood but it’s not good to do large areas because there’s very little flex to shellac so it’s prone to cracking when used outside. Better to use an oil-based wood primer or a regular latex wood primer if you can get away with it.
Have a bottle of isopropyl alcohol nearby in a spray bottle. When it starts thickening up, give it a spray. This stuff is so tricky to apply.
That's a good move. I like the spray bottle idea.
What percentage of alcohol do you use? Thanks 😊
Can I use this over previously painted semi gloss trim without needing to sand?
Yes indeed. Shellac is our nuclear option when it comes to adhesion and blocking stains.
Wat if the surface is still a bit damp will the stain still come true
I’d recommend making sure that the surface is dry before applying it. I’ve never tried shellacking a wet surface but my feeling is that it would not set up properly 🤷♂️
Hi, would this work to cover up metallic paint? My sister decided to be picasso and did a ugly silver geometric shape on my wall 🤣
It definitely would work, but you might not have to use something as extreme as BIN. I'd recommend sanding down the shape with 150 grit sandpaper. Get it as smooth as you can then try some Fresh Start primer from Benjamin Moore. I've had a lot of success with that primer covering things up. After you prime it, you can go over it with whatever finish paint you want to use for topcoats.
I used 1-2-3 Primer and one door of my cabinets half of it turn yellow and I didn’t why.
Hmmm, maybe that’s the previous color coming through? Or if it’s wood it might be the wood color or tannins coming through 🤷♂️
What size tip do i use?
I don’t spray this product, but I know some painters that do. It’ll specify spray tip size on the can.
Can you add color to tint BIN?
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe so. 🤷♂️. It’s used as a primer / sealant then you can either hit it with a tinted latex primer or whatever finish paint you want to.
My BIN shellac can says it you can tint it and even has instructions on how to tint it
Don’t judge me, I had this laying around ands used it for Sheetrock in my bathroom thinking it will cover all stains. It did but next day I see cracks where I applied it 🤦🏽♂️
Hmmm, it doesn’t have a lot of flex to it. I’ve never seen it crack out though. I’ve only heard of that when folks use it outside and the the surface swells or contracts.
Have you ever used kilz restoration over cigarette smoke and nicotine? I have an entire house to do and the customer won't allow the voc's.
I have not so I can’t speak to its effectiveness. I’d do a test spot to see how it goes. The customer is not always right when it comes to product selection. If it puts them at ease, the shellac offgases incredibly quickly. Like 90% in the first 20 minutes to an hour. You can really scoot it along with air movers or fans. The smell dissipates quickly and you can coat it with your finish paint quickly. But you do you. I’ve had clients that were weird about that too
HOW many coats of BIN did you have to put over that wallpaper trim. That first coat didn’t look like it was going to cover!
The BIN is just meant to prime. It’s relatively transparent comparative to a finish paint. We just did a job where we BINed a whole hallway that was wallpapered and then did two top coats of our finish paint and it covered great 👍
What about Smart prime?
I've never used Smart Prime so I don't have an opinion on it.
Is a waterbase or is a Solvent base??
Solvent
I use Zinssers Premo Beetle Poop all the time. Phenomenal product.
It’s quite effective 🤙
Have you ever used this and have had it crack under your paint? Looks like glass shatter.
I have indeed. I've seen that happen when it's been too cold out, or theres a big shift in the surface that the shellac was applied over. Shellac is quite hard and brittle when it dries which is why I think it can crack like that in certain conditions. Usually we sand it down and try and try and get the surface smooth again. Sometimes that requires spackling or hitting it with another type of primer like cover stain or fresh start depending on what you're trying to do.
Have you ever tried Kilz Restoration? Need to seal a lot of 1970 popcorn ceilings, flat paint walls, wallpaper and paneling loaded with nicotine. Customer won't allow the fumes.
Do you need to rub wood down first ?
It's not a bad idea to sand down the wood with 150 grit sandpaper. There's also a primer that I've been using to convert trim that you might want to try before you go with BIN. It's quite a bit more pleasant to work with than BIN. It may work for your application: th-cam.com/video/jydQq4jHOnE/w-d-xo.html
Bin is the best. Mmmmmhhhhh
It tastes just like it smells…delicious!
So we're painting our walls with beetle shizznit?
Yes indeed! Shellac is derived from beetle poop 🪲💩
@@SuperVassarBrothers Funny enough its my favorite type of primer because of the coverage and dry time lol and we pay a premium for literal tinted alcohol dookie 🤣
@@SuperVassarBrothers😅 What an interesting fact. Never would of known
My favourite product but it’s not cheap.
For sure. It’s worth it when you need it 🤙
A painter told me to put vaseline on the face and beard.
To get a better seal on the mask? I suppose that would work but I’ve never tried it. I just crank the straps tight.
@@SuperVassarBrothers Thanks.