Parallel Inverters - Double the Power Hack! Part1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- I make a crude attempt to hook these two inexpensive inverters together to power things neither one can on its own.
If you want a good quality 3000W inverter that is efficient, reliable, and actually powers 3000W loads unlike other inverters out there try the link below.
amzn.to/2JQKmbr
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NO!!!! I've been loking for days how to do this on youtube and there are no videos, TRUST ME. THIS IS THE ONLUINE I FOUND! GOOD JOB SIR!
I liked your video. It was very informative and I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to go over in detail the construction of the circuit board and gave a brief description of the functionality of the components in layman's terms so most people are able to understand and comprehend. So with that being said, thank you. Keep up the good work.
This is fascinating. I'm trying to run loads off a solar panel without a battery so I'm researching everything with the array to see where I can bypass it. I really appreciate your thoroughness and clarity of speech. Compassion for the people who make the products we use every day is important too because no one ever thinks about them. It's nice to see a channel less focused on its own success while still delivering the same amount of care, effort and humility you'd find in one that's paid for and fake. You're an awesome dude and you're really helping me out right now. Can't thank you enough for posting this.
Glad you found this useful. On another note I would encourage you to look into other methods of using a solar panel to power non grid tie loads when not connected to a battery. Solar panels really need a battery or energy storage device in order to directly power any useful load. I would recommend looking into a charge controller set to 13.6V and connected to a small 4 cell LiFePO4 battery powering your inverter. The battery can be quite small but it needs to be there. The charge controller and 4 LiFePO4 cells adds some cost to your setup but it will operate as you intend and last a long time. Charge controllers can be had quite cheaply and if you purchase cells on aliexpress or the like you can find a 20ah LiFePO4 setup for a pretty reasonable price. This type of setup will only run when the sun is shining but will be able to continue running for short times when a cloud passes, a bird flies over, a leaf lands on your panel before blowing off, etc.
What about a bucking device to a charge controller and park in the middle of an open clearing? No issues with that on a clear sunny day right?
I simply can't afford any kind battery bank both at cost and space and weight right now. Free, sure. But nothing in life is free. It would cost me the same in batteries as it would for a complete solar array.
You could possibly make a battery out of salt water for pretty cheap
@@knurlgnar24where you beefed the solder up you could of put copper for better power 😁👍
I agree wit William. Buy 1 bigger inverter instead of mucking around with connecting two.
I recommend a ups invertor and solar panel. Sure it might be expensive to have solar ups but hospital bills might be expensive but burning down. Your home is expensive to
OMG. The wave forms! I am a few mins in and I am fearful for the result.
I promised I wouldn't rant but I have 4 bits of broken IT equipment and 3 were more or less faulty out the box.
Whenever you pay good hard earned money for a product and receive a poorly made piece of cr*p. You have a contract between the retailer responsible for selling you the cr*p and the manufacturer that produced the crap. Those are the only people that should be blamed the retailer for selling stuff they new wasn't fit for purpose and the manufacture for not maintaining quality control or hiring/keeping good/skilled staff, giving proper staff training, motivating staff etc. If a business puts profits ahead of customer satisfaction you as a consumer should not be happy. With all the corporate advertising/news media etc. We often forget that we have a right to get what we paid for and often love/respect business's we should actually be angry with. Anyway good video, glad to see you back.
So quick question, if you just plug a male connector into each outlet and then have the negative and positive output from both inverters meet up with the use of some diodes or rectifier to allow both 410W to be combined into one female outlet?
Coolkeys2009 how would you get satisfaction. from the chinese
I like the idea. They should have pairing ports like the new inverter generators do. Then you could buy smaller ones and link them up later over time and money.
Damn your hands are HUGE! It made that battery look absolutely miniscule.
Hi Knurlgnar24, great videos, very informative and well documented. The only thing I would recommend is to warn viewers BEFORE you demonstrate the wrong way of doing something or how "not-to-do" some procedure. The reason being that sadly enough, some less inquisitive viewers or viewers that are "in a hurry" do not listen to the entire video and blindly follow your initial procedure. You are right though, some people will connect both of them as you showed in the beginning. Ciao, L
yery true. ...that wrong way could have been eliminated
reminds me of your vid a year or so ago when u tied 2 UPS units together...great vids btw!!!
I was looking for this, now I have a way to build a frankenverter
Stacking inverters is easy with most wholehome inverters, you usually link em with a cable to sync the waveform.
thumbs up for trying a daring experiment
i recommend just using a larger invertor. use the smaller ones for portable power or something else.
or you may use head and you don't have to buy. And if bigger power need is short-term, its trowing money away.
Thank you so much .You saved me so much time ,I was thinking of this idea for long time ,thank you.
I enjoyed your video. In the beginning you explained that the plan is to eliminate one of the output bridge circuits, thinking that you only need one to handle the double load. Yet, you didn't show us that you did that. Finally, why didn't you simply lay down a copper wire on the input bus and solder that?
4/5ths thru your video.
Interesting!
i myself am dabbling with inverters as such.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers
Mick
Mick, what have you done to your inverter? I'm trying to increase the Amps out of mine.
I miss old TH-cam
We all do, and not because of anything related to me or you.
@@knurlgnar24 Don’t sell yourself short you are one of the greats
Very well done! Thank you for sharing some of your knowledge. Much appreciated...
Use a 3 way cord two male ends and one female ends conect your power switches to one switch then they kick on at same time but use two of the same brand and or same size you do it same way thst you would do 2 60kw generaters and have a breaker in one side the cable turn both on let tge one stableize the make sure the breaker is of turn on other inverter let it power up then flip breaker it will eather work or it will blow tge breaker
Everyone bashing the theory and saying it won't work are either skipping parts of the video or don't understand what he is saying when he is detailing the components and layout of the board. Anyone with basic electronic knowledge will understand that the theory here is solid and I'd bet it will work for this specific board design.
It works this isn't the only video that proves it!
Oldest video
Ooooooookay that sounds like it would work perfectly.....
I noticed they can both be used seperately as in 410W to each one seperately..
OR 820W in only one or the other.
That sounds like a very interesting idea and the idea sounds like it would actually work.
Don’t let the magic smoke out.
I wonder if you can do the same thing to a portable power station. For example the first power stations that came out were the Bluetti EB240. Great power station lots of battery power but very small sized inverters (1000 watts) for the size of battery power.
I thought sum1 had 2 be desperate to figure chit like this out awsum vid🍁🌚
To add more surge power just add high voltage capacitor in parallel with high voltage dc one.
Very good idea,thank you.
This is what I wanted to do but taking out the outlets and connecting them into one outlet
I hoped you would connect one control signal to both inverters in order to have both output bridges working in synch. Each inverter would still output nominal so they would need to parallel the outputs somehow. Like they do with gasoline inverter-generators.
I feel like J1 is your current shunt.
I use braided copper solder wick to beef up connections.
at first I was like what did this guy smoke and then he smart . thanks
What was the whole actual purpose of soldering the 2 individual wires to both inverters? I want to attempt to parallel connect 3 cheap chinese inverters together and want to know If I have to do exactly what you did.
As a beef it up bus point instead of just adding a bunch of solder also solder a piece of large wire to the trace. The copper wire increases conductivity as you said solder alone doesn't much. Use stranded wire for even better conductivity.
Use the braided copper screen from a good-quality coaxial cable.
How is stranded any better than solid? You either have the cross section area or you don't.
Actually what I was thinking was to use the solder wicking braided copper. Once it is soaked with solder it doesn't matter if it is stranded or solid the standard wire should support the overall strength of the conductor path.
Love your condescending voice... Bet your boyfriend loves you !!!!
And I am sure everyone loves you too !!!
Please show a test result for the output, also, one inv has 20a fuses and the other 25a, should be the same
This is good because I have yet to see one inverter for sale capable of handing like 30 batteries.
To get more capacity through that solder on the board you should have added a piece of copper wire and imbedded it in the solder
If you don't mind explaining where do you wanted to plug the inverters and why would you need it? And where are they usually used?
does it matter which one you plug the socket in if you want to plug one higher watts appliance
I find cold solder joints in all mine i just redo them and they are good
"you end up with a pile of smoke" love it!
if you were shopping for a 1500w pure sine inverter to use daily for 3 years, what's the least you'd expect to spend?
samlex go power or thor they are all the same thing and they are good quality
i've had expensive inverters pop in under a month and right now i'm rocking the cheapest one on ebay (the first one died but i got a replacement and the fan circuit didn't work on that so a just wired to 12v)
I had 7 inverters last year.
This one has been going every time the sun shines for 9 months but i cant recommend it.
Inverter recommendation is difficult especially when you put in a time requirement.
do you live in a warm climate or a humid climate or both? are you trying to power inductive loads?
are you expecting to pull 1500w from it all day (running at %100 will stress it)
are you going to power it from clean power even? (it's no good trying to pull so much power from 1 small battery it drops to 9v if the inverter isnt designed to run that kind of current)
You haven't given any information at all
you make me sóóóó happy ,i feel education level rising inmediatly ,and im adicted to it
Excellent video.. well spoken.
12:31 That is a voltage limiter, if the size of that copper is increased it allows more power to go through since it lowers the resistance, but could also burn up the board and render the unit useless with all the extra voltage. I have seen people by pass (bridge) that
You said, you are doing this for first time, but soundsd like you are a very well trained and qualified electrical engineer . The things you are suggesting are not for ametures like me. I would be afraid to destroy my inverters. Money lost ! FYI
I was wondering what if you put some highvoltage capasitors to the outlet too so you have a bigger reservoir to get power from, did that to mine 600w 12v inverter and soldered an ac capacitor over the socket in the back of where you plug the cord in, and now I can use a 500w 230v oven on the inverter when it gets wery cold outside, and if I'm roadtripping I'ts so nice with some extra heat too...
Ok, so by parallel stacking at the bridge before the high voltage dc hits the output Fets, you avoid a catastrophic failure via non synch waves (don't cross the streams Egon) BUT if the output section performed cool, why not just stack the Fets 'n' caps in the input section and push the Output section to the max in one, smaller box?
Presumably the transformer wouldn't cope? And I doubt the existing traces would be good enough for double the current either. They'd probably need some modifications.
U could buy a 1000w inverter just a thought
It's been a while since I released an inverter video and it's past time I do so again. This is a project I worked on about 6 months ago.
Now I just hope this will work with 5 inverters!
Actually, I cant do this with 5 inverters... they will fry each other up.
Can you use this instead?
www.smarthome.com/a-neutronics-mlsl-11510-10-outlet-19-rack-mount-power-strip.html
Danyal Ahmad
Looks like it would just connect them each together with a switch to turn each one on and off. They'd still go 'poof' when switched on if not synchronized!
knurlgnar24 Sir can we make a pure sine wave inverter at home? Is it possible or too complicated?
Interesting and genius! plus comment about social issues!
You can add 10 AWG copper wire to the bus bars by solding on the bus bars.
so soldering two inputs and two outputs ?
Parallel the AC output of those units at your peril...... Must have AC sync or it will burn..
Or just use a 3 waycable and a breaker between tge 2 and start primary tgen start secondary flip breaker try that dont need to take them apart or you can do the smart way andjust by a larger inverter
Mad solder skills!!
Hey" just wanted to say: thanks for all the info.!! I like your No Bull way of saying How to do this or that,!!!
So to get more watts outta a inverter I wanna upgrade I just gotta upgrade the capacitors and maybe the output
add some copper wire to the solder to increase amps.
"A fool starts too early" . . . lol 1:33
Hi Knurlgnar, i have enjoyed your videos about inverter reviews. You have a good voice, good explanation and good tests. I have a question, based on your experience what Ebay inverter with a good price performance ration do advice me to buy. Thanks.
Hi I am big fan of your work...need some help to make parallel inverter....
Can I use two 4000w inverter parallel ?, is that risky ?, one inverter capacity is 4000w continuous and 8000w peak, so I have 8000w continuous and 16000w peak
i was just thinking, what if someone actually paused the video from time to time and follow these instructions as they demonstrate.....untill 1:30 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lol
This is probably a really dumb question but why not just connect the negative and positive together on the input and connect to the battery? What is being achieved by soldering them together by the capacitor?
The output AC waveforms are not sync'd nor balanced so they can't be connected together directly.
You could have added a short wire on that node you added solder to, assuming it would fit back in the case.
of course...
I can't make out the alligator connections . Are you just making a parallel connection from the + leads and the - leads ?
This is very informative and makes me curious if you could run them in series to get 220v power because i cannot find a 220v inverter(i understand a vehicles electrical would have issues but i would be upgrading mine)
This could be done if a person synchronized the inverters and also connected them to separate batteries. (they reference battery ground) From a practical perspective it is always better to simply purchase a larger inverter. This was a fun experiment however!
I think that crude link with high temperature sleeving on the input may be a current shunt
You dear Sir are a genius, i was wondering, is there a way to share the output through both sets of output FETs
You have to tie together both the output of the boost stage like I did here, and also the gate control circuitry for the bridges. (disabling one of the controls so that they don't interfere) I was afraid connecting them with long wires would lead to problems so I did not do that.
@@knurlgnar24 Awesome, thanks for the reply. I'm from South Africa where our power stations have been neglected to the point where we can't generate enough electricity to supply the entire country so they have implemented "load shedding" were they periodically turn of electricity to towns across the country and for some reason it is cheaper to buy 2 or 3 smaller inverters than 1 high wattage inverter but im afraid that the FET's on say 2 x 1KW inverter won't handle the possible 2KW current draw hence my question about connecting the FET's
i would suggest selling them
and just bye a bigger one
When the fuses blew it also fried something else and even with new fuses it would no longer work
Thanks for sharing,great ( thorough ) video. An chance you could tell me why my (new,out of box) inverter "fault" light displays and anything plugged in comes on and then off (continuously,until unplugged). I thought maybe they weren't getting enough current from my batteries,but that seemed too obvious and didn't want to short they.
sei un GRANDE
grazie
i have that exat same battery but two of them those are 12v alarm back up batterys
Why did you make the double ended extension cord if you weren’t going to plug it in? Lol
I missed the part where you sychronized the both driver stages to each other... this is actually the same way you self recommend not to do, isn't it?
Couple years late. I had to re-watch myself. At around 9:30 he looks up the part number for the output stage and notes that the output transistors are rated well above the 800watt output desired. That's when he decided that just supplying sufficient dc voltage to the output stage should accomplish the results. very nice hack. i have have tore these down but did not realize that it was 120 dc that was chopped up to a square wave, should have followed the traces to the diodes.
WHAT ABOUT THE TRANSFORMER ,BY DOING THIS YOU USE ONE TRANSFORMER ONLY AND THAT WILL EXCEEDS THE POWER RATING FOR TRANSFORMER ?
My Question is do it has a built in fuse like a 5 amp or a 10 amp or even a 15 amp ? Cause what i was trying to do is make a home made jump starter or power pack for charging appliances but i think i need a fuse like a 10-20 amp car fuse with the top post car battery ???And which 1 of these inverters has a built in fuse like a 5-20 amp fuse ???
How to get 2 invertors in serial connection, in order to get 2 fase and 240V ?
I want to power Aluminum MIG welder what works out of 240V 2fase.
Power welder takes is about 600watts. Or welding current DC +30amps and +20volts
I do have 2000wats inverter.
+sofabike just weld with car batteries
You can get a 120-to-240 volt transformer or autotransformer to step up 120 to 240 volts, but putting 2 inverters of 120 volts each _in series_ will give you *2 different AC frequencies at once.* That is NOT the Split Phase power you asked for, unless you can synchronize them, which is not easy. And welders may have odd waveforms on the input current, which will not work so well with inverters unless they are way oversized in watt ratings. *_IF_* you absolutely have to do it via inverters, I recommend getting a high wattage inverter or UPS, like 3000 watts. At that power, they often have 240 volt outputs already. But they will probably require at least 24 volts DC as input, and may require 36, 48, 60, 72, or even more volts. Already at 24 or 36 volts from car batteries, one may do pretty serious DC welding, but that is probably not your MIG welding.
I bought a Schumacher 2000 and was wondering how many solar panels and batteries I should get to use with it. I plan on sometimes running some power equipment, but usually just lights, a mini fridge, and maybe an inline water heater off and on. Any input would help. Thanx!
Is it possible to convert an old generator to an inverter generator by running it's output through a bridge rectifier and connecting it to the output stage of the inverter as shown here, maybe with a small 12v transformer to power the inverter circuitry?
Can you use one plug from each inverter to get 220?
They would have to be locked in phase, so without more modifications no.
Rookie question: Can I connect the inverters in series to, say, I have four piece 12v inverter connected into series to create 48v input?
Unfortunately no, you would need a 48v inverter. They will not 'share' the voltage evenly.
nice thanks bro i love your videos
Will this work with higher wattage inverters?
I know this is an old video. did you finally find the current sense 'resistor'? it is there in front of you. Perhaps now that 4 years have passed you either found it or figured it out. Also why did they rectify the output of the transformer and then add another stage? is this a real sinewave inverter or is it a modified square wave inverter?
Why is it this will run anything but an 8k with give you 1500w??
what about taking an extension cord mail plug in double up on that Korea have to mail plugs not looping back to each inverter but is supplying the main load line of the extension cord?
What happens to phase when not in sync
if you tin the wires before trying to solder them they puddle right up!
Because you have the knowledge, can you perhaps answer this question - when I test mains socket fed by power company, only one of the two holes is energized (Line). But when I connect inverter to the same house grid and power from inverter, now both holes of the socket are energized (Line and Neutral both illuminate tester). What is the basic difference here?
That is true on some units but not others. In a house where you have 120 and 240, the house is using a split phase. The transformer is supplying the 120 from a center tap to either Line in. That center tap is also grounded at some point in the wiring. So line to line = 240 VAC while Line 1 to Neutral or Ground or Line 2 to Neutral or Ground will only show 120VAC. Neutral to Ground should show nothing as they are connected. In the inverters, they can be wired one of two ways. Line can be at either 120 VAC or 60 VAC. In the first case, Neutral would show 120 volts to ground as it is the second leg of the 120 VAC supply. In the second case, the Neutral to Ground would also show 60VAC as the Ground is tied to the center point of the 120VAC supply. In the second case, do not ever tie the ground to a house circuit as it will blow the inverter. If you had a second inverter of the first type and had it synced to the other unit so that one side was high on the Line while the other unit's Line went low and tied the Neutrals together you'd see 240VAC on the two Lines and nothing on the Neutral to Ground with 120VAC from either Line to Neutral or Ground.
Thanks a lot for the reply. I had started to figure it out based on similar idea that while the volts are up on the Line they would be down on the Neutral and this would produce 240V in-between. However, it looks rather complicated and certainly requires digesting especially how the in house ground behaves together with the inverter so that ground will never become energized. Here where I live the ground is often tied to Neutral line in older homes (now prohibited but standard practice several decades ago).
It actually still is in use with the Ground and Neutral tied together normally at the first panel that the power goes to. Our home was built in 1978. It has the tie ins at the transfer switches and in the main panel. Power from our generators is 240/120 with 4 wires for Line 1, Line 2, Neutral, Ground. All of our sockets also are tied to ground thru both the conduit and or the ground wire that goes to each one.
@12:31 that wire insulation isnt installed correctly that wire shouldnt be allowed to be that close or touch the trace its hopping over it is however correct in the other inverter that could be the magic smoke generator you were talking about when poor care when producing these things
Can I conect500wt inverter with 1000w inverter
Great video, well done, I have a Spark 4000w pure sine wave, not used a lot, but the last time I used it the wattage meter ramps up and it goes into overload and shuts down with no load plugged into it? Do you have a video off what this could be?
I'd recommend ohming out the diodes and output FETs. Sounds like a shorted FET on the output stage. If so that can usually be fixed by replacing just the FET or FET pair that shorted. You don't need to replace all of them. The tricky part is figuring out what to purchase to replace it with. Try to match up the capacitances in the datasheet and be sure the resistance is similar and the voltage rating is at least as high.
instead of adding more solder. why dont you add wire as the race way
Could you point me in the direction of a 3000 good name pure sine wave inverter yeah
I'd recommend this one linked here, I also added it to the video description. It costs a bit more but is a true honest 3kw inverter that will power anything a 20A outlet in your house will power, and that's more than most 5kw inverters can do. It's also quiet, reliable, and efficient.
amzn.to/2JQKmbr
I have 2 x 3400w inverter generators that do not have parallel facility. Could this hack work to provide parallel facility to my generators. I have technician friends that I would get to do the modification if this is possible. Thanks for your advice in advance
No, your power stage MOSFET won't have enough tolerance to double output. You need sync both output stage, if you can rewire the inverter control chip has sync inputs or use single control chip to drive both output stages, you could have two outputs phase sync so you can parallel the outputs.
@@joecox9958 Thanks for your advice Joe. Do you know where I can get some advice on syncing the output so I can a technician friend to fix it for me
Suggestion ... don't use black cable over black back ground . Also too close to see the total setup .
I think it will blow up but then again it is electronic, you can reprogram it
what have you done is just put the inverters in parallel but the output watts is de same ..
Can u parallel two different UPS into a big power inverter???
OokTiaopi. I want the same answer
@OokTiaopi
@
aamir habib -- Probably NOT. There are tons of different ways to make inverters, so they are likely to be too different inside, running the "150 volt" DC bus at different voltages, or employing radically different approaches to the system design. But you CAN add larger capacitors to either inverter, and likely get some improvement.