Why NOT to oversize your inverter!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ต.ค. 2022
- I really wanted to look more into why the ALFFAA inverter didn't power the new refrigerator so I decided to take four inverters upstairs for the challenge! After that, I figured "Hey, I might as well check on the standby consumption and efficiency of these inverters!"
I found it amazing the difference in efficiency when powering the same 100w light bulb. I really shows why you should take the time and find the correct size of inverter for your needs.
Check out the results!
Items used in this video:
500W Car Power Inverter, BMK Car Converter Pure Sine Wave DC 12V to 110V AC Car Plug Inverter Adapter with 1 Type C Port 2 USB Ports 2 AC Outlets
amzn.to/3KPxvBd
If the Inverter above is sold out, consider this clone for less than $60.
amzn.to/3Eu99Mg
ALFFAA 1500W Solar Power Inverter 12V to 110V with Built-in 5V/2.1A USB Port
amzn.to/3JOTNmg
Krieger 1100 Watt 12V Power Inverter Dual 110V AC Outlets, Installation Kit Included, Automotive Back Up Power Supply For Blenders, Vacuums, Power Tools - ETL Approved Under UL STD 458
www.amazon.com/KRI%C3%8BGER-I...
High Caliber Systems 2000w Inverter PDF:
drive.google.com/file/d/1qehn...
It does say "Low frequency inverter" right on the front.. oops!
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Link to a one-stop shop for all your solar needs! shopsolarkits.com/1128
Want to learn more about me and my setup?
Link to my website: off-grid-basement.com
Diagram of my 24v Off Grid Solar Setup: off-grid-basement.com/diagram...
Diagram of a Smaller 12v Off Grid Solar Setup: off-grid-basement.com/diagram...
Solar Panels, Victron Solar charge controllers and smart shunt. Don't forget my homemade PVC solar panels stands!
off-grid-basement.com/Solar.php
Solar Generators I've reviewed!
off-grid-basement.com/SolarGe...
Off Grid Batteries and Victron Battery Balancer:
off-grid-basement.com/Batteri...
Off Grid & Grid Tie Inverters and 24v to 12v Step down reducer:
off-grid-basement.com/Parts.php
Need tools to get your Off Grid setup completed? Check out the list I use!
off-grid-basement.com/Tools.php
All Amazon links in the description are affiliate links to support the channel. I'm getting paid a small commission if you order products through these links. The doesn't make the products more expensive for you.
Thanks!
All music by TH-cam Free Audio
#12vbattery #offgrid #inverter
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 68 | คู่เอก "พระจันทร์ฉาย vs โจนาธาน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F3IM3w-XchI/mqdefault.jpg)
When the refrigerator compressor finally kicks on, the little inverters would shut off or go in to overload protection or blow (if it doesn't have any protection)
The compressor kicked on as soon as I plugged in the refrigerator. The fridge was pulling over 100w from each inverter I plugged in.
@@OffGridBasement compressor or circulation fan?
Also, a short appliance extension cord (3-wire flat cable, usually gray) would be a good addition to your kit.
@@jamesalles139 actually not sure. I thought it was the compressor. I guess I just didn't run it long enough to truly test. Thanks for the tip.
@@OffGridBasement 100 Watts seems a little low (except in the sense of average wattage say, over 24 hrs). The average home refrigerator uses 350-780 watts
@@jamesalles139 100w is normal for 300l fridges. If you have 500+ then 200 300 can be expected. Actually the current draw is more while it's in defrost. The defrost heater of a 300l fridge pulls 350w almost.
I've seen it mentioned a few times but the compressor startup is one of the high draws on a fridge but the other thing to remember is the "frost free" fridge/freezers also have a built in defrost cycle that also uses a lot of power. That defrost cycle could be why your smaller inverter didn't power the fridge the first time but it seemed to work fine the second time.
My fridge normally pulls around 700w when it's actually running with the compressor, but when the defrost cycle runs, it could go near double that number. I can actually look at my inverter logs from SolarAssistant and see each night around 0200 the defrost cycle kicks in. Just a thought.
Thanks for the info! I'm going to try out an extended test on that fridge using the 500w inverter.
@@OffGridBasement good luck!
How did the long duration test go?
For the 1500w inverter that reads a lower voltage than the rest, there is a little potentiometer in the inverter that you can adjust to increase the output voltage . Great video 👍👍
I'll look into it. Thanks for the info!
@Solar And Off Grid Can I see a picture of the inverter board?
@Solar And Off Grid Seems like the inverter is defective, good call
@@penuelseun Nope it is just a crappy cheap design that I would never trust. The uploader was very lucky it didn't damage his fridge.
Correct. Low voltage supply = slow burn of circuitry.
High voltage supply = explosion.
Providing correct voltage is a lot less danger.😮
Your tests help alot of people. We appreciate it
I'm glad you found it helpful!
I'm sure someone covered this in the comments. You should allow the refrigerator to run the compressor for a few cycles on each inverter. Also, there may be something to adjust the voltage a bit on the blue inverter.
Yes. I thought the compressor was kicking in, but it turns out it was mostly like the fan. Thanks for the comment and the info.
i was going to say how do you know the compressor kicked in? I can tell you wilth almost 100% certainty the 500watt inverter wouldn't be able to handle the surge
even the inverter is on it pull bit power ok this why I have shout off switch between positive of battery and positive off inverter
do you know even you switch off your inverter it still have power in side of it and pull bit of power from battery this what no body knows I see lot video ok what I do I have switch between positive of my battery and positive of my inverter to switch it off so I will not lose power from my battery ok
@@andyjack2368 yes it tells you on the inverter what the current draw when idol
Awesome video, thanks for breaking the numbers down. I’m now a new subscriber to your channel. Thanks again!
I'm glad you got something out of the video! Thanks for the sub and the comment.
Fantastic. Thanks so much for the excellent teaching video. Hi from Brisbane Australia. Keep very well.🙂🙂🙂
Thank you! Will do!
Nice. Sometimes electronic devices just don't feel like working that day. I plan to use multiple inverters, each one with about twice the rating of whatever it is going to be powering.
That sounds like a good plan. If you need a 5000w inverter for one appliance, you definitely should get a smaller one for everything else. Thanks for the comment.
Very good topic I have a 400watt I've had for years and a 4000watt I use at my cabin to run the well and power tools
Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you have it well thought out. Thanks for the comment.
relatively intelligent compressor control systems will have a time delay built in from power-up - about 5 minutes.
This allows refrigerant pressures to equalize if it is running when power drops out (power bump or outage event).
It saves on rotor lock-up and thermal cutout trips.
Good to know. Thanks for the info!
The big inverter that you have I believe is a 24-volt 2000-watt with a 6000-watt surge it is the exact replica of the aims inverter I have been using my aims inverters for 7 years now and I have not had any problems
Thanks for the info. The inverter is 12v, but everything else is correct. Glad to hear your inverter is working great with no problems. I've heard AIMS inverters are top notch! Good choice.
@@OffGridBasement I also want to chip in a bit: you are no doubt aware of the difference between LF and HF topologies for power inverters ? HF uses mainly MOSFETS on aluminium coolingbodies with perhaps a smaller transformer here or there to get to AC voltage (for me 230 volts, for you 115 volts I guess), and when constructed well enough they can handles very short surges of 2x their nominal power. LF inverters do the same thing without those MOSFETS (for the most part, there are hybrid topologies that mix the two main topologies) and use massive copperwire transformers, preferrably of the toroidal type to get to AC output. In general, and I repeat "in general" here, the LF inverter utilizing this huge transformer to do the work, will outlive whatever HF inverter you compare it to. The fall out levels of HS inverters are staggering compared to these "old school" transformer inverters and typically they can handles surges twices as long and 3x as high as nominal power output ratings. Therefore inductive loads from saws (maitre saw, miter saw, what is the word ?) and motors and pumps will cause many a HF inverter to break or not do anything at all where as the LF inverter just runs it without breaking a sweat. For that you get a big downside and that is, as you already indicated a big and heavy machine that costs a penny (usually, you can get good deals, I have Vevor LF power inverters of 12 volts 3000 watts 230 volt that also feature 75 amps battery charging like yours that costed me about 300 dollars each, so that was a bargain really) AND a very high standbye consumption of 66 to 80 watts. If you combine them with some solar panels and a dedicated MPPT off grid battery charger then you can live with that consumption to at least have up to 3000 watts in my case ready to handle anything from lighting to laptops and wifi modems to a watercooker, vacuumcleaner, microwave, drill and saw and electric oven. Do take gauge 4/0 (120 mm2) pure copper cables for 12 volts input, less for 24 or 48 volts, and a sizable lithium iron phosphate batterybank. I got 72 KWh of LiFePO4 storage to back up 2 of these 3000 Watt LF inverters, enough juice to run 3000 watts nominal for 2 days. In practise you will never use 3000 watts non stop for 2 days, so I expect I can last much longer than that. But if I were to also electrically heat my house, or parts of it at least, than my battery bank would require and upgrade to at east 90 to 100 KWh ! I decided to just call it a day when I reached 72 KWh though.
But I digressed severely. Sorry. LF Inverters are underrated and unknown to most. Would I trust an HF inverter to run my electricity for years on end ? Only when it says Victron. But I can't afford Victron. ;-p So I put my trust in bulky Chinese made LF inverters instead. They are like tanks, they are ugly but they are in 95 percent of all cases indestructible.
Thanks for this experiment! I am currently using a 1500w pure sine inverter to power a 5-c.f. chest freezer. Based on the results of your experiment, I will power the freezer with a 500w pure sine inverter to get better efficiency. Thanks!
Glad to hear it! Thanks for the comment.
Don't! You must use a power meter like a "Killer-Watt" first to determine what the compressor's start-up power is required.
Also, It really depends on the quality of the inverter, as there are many factors like power-factor, VA vs Watts, meaning the VA changes as the battery voltage sags (gets lower) so with a fully charged 12V battery at float charge (13.7v) you may get 92% efficiency but when the battery is close to 12v (dead) your efficiency will be much lower at around 65%.
I have an 6kw PSW inverter that has a 0.6a standby usage, bigger doesn't always mean more standby draw, quality and design of the inverter does.
A quick start takes a lot less watts
this is why I like multiple inverters. One pure sign wave for large loads I keep switched off, The other lower wattage modified sinewave with much less standby consumption Does 80% of the work.. I just can't watch my batteries drain out, for nothing.
That's smart and a very good point. Thanks for the comment!
it depends on where the compressor is in its stroke. if it has to start at top dead centre it requires a lot more power
Thanks for the info and the comment.
a standard outlet provides up to 15 amps at 120VAC = 1800 watts
but, inductive loads - coils, which includes motors - require a huge surge of power when the motor starts.. to make your test valid you need to induce the motor to start.
the big inverter is a low frequency inverter. the square end is the giveaway. it is the choice for devices with motors.
Thanks for the info and the comment.
Nice real- world test.
More similar vids please.
More to come! Thanks for the comment.
There is an essential flaw in the way you did the test and that is that efficiency is not a linear variable in this type of equipment. They generally show a low efficiency at values below 10% of the nominal capacity and give their maximum efficiency around 75-85% of their capacity even less in some of them. This is why each inverter must be used in its correct application to avoid wasting energy.
And in fact the inverter should not be oversized too much for that reason.
Thank you for the great information and the comment!
The power of the inverter depends on the the freezer. When the freezer starts, it needs a high peak power for seconds. An old freezer needs more start power. A minimum of 500-600W is recommended in order to not force the inverter.
Thanks for the information!
👍👌❤️🇨🇦, As a general rule, a 2,000W inverter can run a refrigerator smoothly. Your inverter will need to handle the continuous wattage as well as handle the surge power for a split second. Most refrigerators require a power of 300-600 watts, but the surge wattage can be about 2-3 times higher
Thank you for the information and the comment.
I ordered a similar inverter to that blue one. It was blue 1500 PSW, but Amazon said it was undeliverable because of damage. I ended up purchasing the Krieger brand but in 2000 watt PSW version. I'm anxious to get all my components hooked up real soon and start trying different appliances with them. I went with the bigger inverter because of the 4000watt surge value and has the hardwire terminals option if needed. It would be interesting to test them when the compressor kicks on, don't think the little 500watt one would have continued.
Thanks for the info. The fridge was pulling over 100w from the small inverter. I'll probably do another duration video of that fridge using the 500 inverter just to see if it holds up.
Just so you know, the surge rating is very misleading on most inverters as it is only for 1/100 of a second, not for the 10-60 seconds needed when a motor starts like in a fridge or hover, this is why high-end inverters do not show or claim a surge rating, only cheap inverters made in China do.
Thanks for the review
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment.
HINT: a very SHORT 1' long Extension Cord would allow you to utilize your KILL-A-WATT dongle
I have several left over from my computer days --- 16 Gauge & 14 Gauge extension cords were just about one foot long & quite Heavy-Duty
COOP
...
That is a good idea. I need to cut one down to size. Thanks for the info!
Great info. Bigger is NOT better. Thanks.
Thanks for the comment!
For devices with an inductor/motor, sometimes power factor makes a big difference. I was trying to run a sump pump with a 500w inverter and it kept tripping off. When I ADDED a 60w incandescent light bulb, it was able to stay on continuously.
Counterintuitive at first, but it worked out.
That is counterintuitive but it does make sense once you think about it. Thanks for the great info!
you can connect a capacitor to the inverter output to correct power factor instead of the light bulb. A motor run capacitor would probably work but make sure the capacitor is designed to be connected across ac line. you may have to experiment with different values.
@@kwacz Exactly. The "antidote" to an inverter is a capacitor and would have been ideal. As I was in a hurry, I improvised. A rechargeable battery might have also worked.
Hmm. I wonder if there's a market for building capacitors into such inverter motors directly? What common, household devices have a naturally high capacitance that I might want to throw into such a system in a hurry?
@@Insightfill be careful. a rechargeable battery would not want to be connected because the inverters output is ac and batteries are dc. The capacitor would work but only if it has an ac rating and is non polar, and made to be left in circuit across the line.
Very important topic
Yes I believe so as well. Thanks!
If you look at the Victron series of inverter chargers they can have a "generator" input also which can be another inverter. SO while the 2k inverter is enough the main inverter supplies power, when more power is needed the additional inverter is automatically turned on and sync'd to the main inverter. Saves some of the wasted power.
Thanks for the info and the comment.
There's gotta be something wrong with that Alffaa inverter. I just got one and it's working great. Idle consumption is 4.5 to 5 watts and AC output voltage is pretty stable around 110 volts and slightly higher with more load.
There was. One of the capacitors was blown. The inverter has a 5 year warranty so I got it replaced for free. Thanks for the comment.
GOOD VIDEO - POINT TAKING
Onite LED light bulbs are warm white and USB powered. Great off grid 5w lights.
Just a tip! Always put the POSITIVE contact on first, then the negative. When taking them off, you take the NEGATIVE off first, then the POSITIVE!
Thank you!
Uh no..neg first always.. first on..and first off
Very interesting. Not many channels show these tests, so thank you for this. If you want to know how much power an appliance uses during different times of the day, get yourself a Shelly Smart Plug or TP-Link HS110 (or model with energy monitoring) and log the usage on a PC or RPi running Home Assistant.
You’ll then be able to graph it in realtime with the Grafana plugin, which lets you see the time period anywhere from the last few seconds to the last 2 years on one screen, which can then be zoomed into to only show the time period you want.
Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll link some videos of what it’s like and how to get it configured to do all this 😅
I do have something from Sonoff. I really only shows a daily chart, but I guess it's better than nothing. Maybe I'll try to work with something like that to show more information about the process. Thanks for the information!
I dont need my inverter to on ok even you turn it off its still power in inverter ok I do my own ok I have a shout off switch between positive off battery and positive off my inverter ok so when I turn it off it shout off no power in side of my inverter even you turn it off with inverter switch its still have power in side of it take little bit power from battery dont know that
That tells you AC not DC amps.
Great content as always. When the compressor kicks in the surge can be upwards of 2000 watts, 2000w/12v 160+ amps…. Perhaps when you tested last time the battery was not full and could not drive sufficient amps for the surge current. Glad the inverter cut off before flaming out the cables.
I didn't wait for the compressor to kick in for each inverter. That was a bad test. Thanks for the comment!
The difference between the refrigerator load "at rest" and with compressor startup/run is the likely reason...although if it's really putting out only 99 VAC for the "at rest" load, I'd stop the test right there.
Yes. I did realize I wasn't leaving the inverters plugged in long enough to make an accurate test. Thanks for the comment.
I believe it is because you went front wall power to the inverter in the middle of a running cycle and did the switch in a few seconds, instead of a few minutes. My Whistler (a very food small to medium size inverter) 2,000 att inverter will choke if my chest freezer has been running (compressor on) within a few minutes of plugging it into the inverter. I am thinking it is because the compressor cylinder has residual pressure in it from running, so it tales even more power to start it up until the existing pressure bleeds out. My inverter will start it after the chest freezer waits a few minutes and tries to come back on. Also, there are inverters (cheaply but high quality Chinese) that go into power save mode when there isn’t a load for a programmable period ( you can tell it to do it from like 1 to 30 minutes after all loads are gone, and it will come back on when it detects a load).
Thanks for the information and the comment.
Your fridge likely has a high drain auto defrost. You can power manual defrost dorm fridge and a small 5 cubic ft manual defrost chest freezer both easier and longer than this fridge to save your food after a power outage. You probably know this but this is the option I would choose to save on battery capacity after a hurricane. These small freezers and fridges only draw about 50 watts when running. Pack extra space in the freezer with bottles of water to freeze before the storm then use those in the fridge to keep it colder and drink them when they thaw. Also, use USB fans after Summer power outages. A 2500 wh power bank can run these for two days 24/7 on low. A box fan wastes far too much power.
Thanks for all the great info!
@@OffGridBasement I meant to say "2500 mAh" not wh.
@@OffGridBasement I forgot to add that a portable folding solar panel can easily directly power a USB fan and the larger sized ones can power them in very low light. I demonstrated a high quality 30w folding panel with Sunpower cells powering one in the rain in a vid. You aren`t supposed to leave them in the rain but it was just a quick demonstration to show how efficient they can be. Larger ones can do that in the shade even. When hurricanes Laura and Delta hit us in 2020 I went through 100 dollars in batteries trying to keep fans running. Now that will never be an issue again. It was horrible. I hope to have power for my small window air conditioner by April usiing a 300ah LiFeP04 and solar. I have the main parts and need a few more things to get it safely running so I can stay cool.
Just to maybe add or clarify a little of the last comment but when you plugged the refrigerator into the 100 w inverter the temperatures were low enough that the compressor was not running when you unplugged it, or when you plugged it into the 100 w it only had two tiny motors and a few chips being powered. Not near an amp. With the compressor kicking on could go from 4 to 14 amps for a second and then down to less than 5
5 amps is 600 w (120v)
Thanks for the info and the comment.
HOWdy O-G-B,
Thanks for the COMPARISON
COOP
...
You're welcome!
This is why I chose a 300w inverter for my basement freezer. Good topic
Yes! I take it you don't have any problems as well. Thanks for the comment.
Maybe 300W is the minimum power, depending the freezer. When the freezer starts, it needs a high peak power for seconds. A minimum of 500-600W is recommended in order to not force the inverter.
Very good info ... More is not better when boondocking
Agreed. Thanks for the comment.
Great Job and well done. Wonder who is the champ in stand by Power consumption? Light weight Middle weight and heavy weight contenders. Stuff like this is interesting.
Good question! I always assumed the bigger the inverter the more standby consumption, but it's worth checking out to be sure. Thanks for the comment.
My 400w inverter that I first bought doing solar still going strong - also under $50 - I know I'm limited on use but it isn't a problem. My 1500 inverter on the other hand is too touchy - same with my 1000 that I returned. Can't handle surges. I have a 3000w pure sine wave foreign one that is really good - a powerhouse.
That's good! If you ever need to run just one small device, you have that smaller inverter for it. Thanks for the comment.
Great content, the math hurts my head so i will just add a panel to cover the over consumption. lol
That is also another option! lol
The amount of amps a refrigerator draws is variable according to, room temperature, how close to the preset temperature of the fridge and how often you open the fridge. On a hot summer day, when you are opening the fridge door often, the fridge will consume huge amounts of power.
Thank you for the information and the comment.
To me the 57% efficiency would be worth it to know it will power what I need. I'd rather see a video of these inverters under heavy load. From what I've seen, most can't handle what they claim.
That's a good idea. I'll do that in a bit.
Pure Sign Waves, Have a Separate Board, that Smooths the Current , and takes wats to do it ! Clean, but less Efficient ! I am Going With the Renogy 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12V DC to 120V I Have a 60 amp MPPT Tracer, Epever 6415 AN For the Charge Controller.
Thanks for the info and the comment.
Some of the newer fridges have an inverter type set up like the mini splits. So some will not have the 1000-1500 watt surge. My 15 year old 18 cf fridge has around 1500 watt surge and runs at abour 120 watts. You may want to see some specs on your fridge. Just a thought.
Thank you for the information and the comment.
I have a 2-year-old Beko FF similar looking to what's in this video, and I have put a watt meter in its socket for the last 5 days, I'm in the UK, so we are on 240v AC and the FF plate claims 75W and 190w in defrost, but my meter is showing how it's really using 100w when running 2.4w when it's not and 225w in its defrost cycle which is once every 10 hours, and it lasts for 20 minutes, but the startup of the compressor is 1kw for nearly a full minute, So I just think you have been hitting different cycles, so you need to run a much longer test.
Also, mine has used 4.5kwh over the 5 days.
Good to know! I'll try an extended run to see what happens. Hopefully I can document the entire process and keep track of some data along the way. Thanks for the comment.
A full refrigerator or freezer runs way more efficiently than empty. It takes tons of energy to cool airspace......
Thank you for the information and the comment.
You should try the biggest inverter with eco mode on, it sends a small pulse on the output every second or two to see if there's a load attached, some inverters in eco mode use 1/2 watt... the load must be over a certain level, 15~30 watts, on some it can be modified on the lcd panel or with a knob... it won't help with your fridge as it needs constant power to run the electronics but is perfect with older ones that only have a mechanical thermostat.
I'll try it out. Thanks!
Excellent video! Great info they never publish but should have to publish the standby consumption! I wonder if you could plug in a power conditioner strip or unit into a regular inverter to get the clean sine wave ? It could save a lot of money on the purchase price up front or improve what you have? My power conditioner strips use 7w standing by but they have auto on controls when you start up 1 item in the strip (computer turns on the printer and the monitor). Thanks!
You're welcome! Thanks for the comment and info.
Judging by the clamps, that little 500W inverter is probably sold as an emergency jump start. I have had an even smaller 250W version and it works a treat. Jumped my car with it 30 odd times including one time where I jumped it 7 times without recharging the inverter. Admittedly my car is just a small Honda Fit, but that 500W one should be great for just about any car. Every car owner should carry one!!!
That's a great use! Thanks for the info and the comment.
The HCS 2000-watt inverter/charger is manufactured by Go Power! They produce a range of power solutions for various applications, including RVs, marine vessels, and off-grid systems. The HCS (Hybrid Charger System) is one of their products designed to provide reliable power and charging capabilities in off-grid or mobile settings.The +60 watt standby usage is the same as My UPS - both are designed to switch between grid and battery, like fast enough to not turn on a running tv...
Thank you for the information and the comment.
A useful review and findings. But I think you were lucky the square wave inverter did not scramble or even ruin the electronics in the fridge, it can happen. Lots have people have commented on load variation and maximum watts needed for some of the fridge functions.
Thanks. The testing on the refrigerator wasn't the best. I didn't let the compressor turn on for each inverter. Thanks for the comment.
I did not think of the fact low efficiency means energy loss..thank you.
You're welcome. Glad I could help.
Trouble too is the market is flooded with inverters that simply looks good, sound good on paper but wjen it comes to performance is a different story. Never use modified sign wave on sensitive electronic items as they can cause failures in the circuitry and most modern fridge freezers run so many electronics too.
I find when using my home made ups system its best to calculate the total loading from the appliance/s plus a bit more for extra measure when choosing the right size inverters, also if you use a inverter thats say rated for 2000watts and your very close to its limits that inverter is working rather hard all the time.
I personally use high end inverters and ones that are designed for frequent use. Victron make excellent gear.
Oh also 24volt inverters are much better than 12volt less current draw and they are less demanding on batteries. If you have a home backup system, i use x4 6volt agm 224amp hour batteries and it gives me around the 24 hour mark running my fridge, tv, lamps, and also a kettle (sparingly).
Sorry i know its long winded, amd not everyone would agree with my comment.
Thanks for the comment and info!
Thanks.
You're welcome! Thanks for the comment.
I have 3000 watts pure sine wave inverter what gage wire to used I buy it from a guy only get one wire positive wire but wire is too small its 48Volt DC input volt I run Sarsaw 12A, Skillsaw 10A not finish my power box yet
12A @ 120v is equal to 1,440W on the AC side. On the DC side, you would need that plus 20% due to losses in the inverter. that would be 1440 + 288 = 1728w. 1728w divided by 48v = 36amps on the DC side. Those are just the equations to help you figure out other devices.
You always want to wire up for Max power of the inverter. 3000w/48v = 62.5 amps. 6awg wire can max out at 75A, but you don't want to do that. Keep it safe by going with 4 awg wire and fuse it with a 75A inline fuse. Hope this helps!
I'm not sure if you figured it out already or not but the reason why your fridge worked with such a low wattage inverter was because it wasn't actually running at that time. It was only using the lights and the sensors which is maybe five or 6 W of power But when the fridge is actually running then that's when it uses the 8 A of power or basically 900 W approximately for an average fridge so that's the reason why you couldn't believe that the fridge was still working well it's not really working it wasn't running per se it was just sitting at idle the compressor wasn't working the motor wasn't working to run the compressor. Nothing was actually doing anything, it was just the lights and a couple sensors and the LED display, which is maybe five or 10 W of power but next time if you do the test do it when it's running when the compressor kicks in or leave the fridge open for a minute it'll kick in and start running and then those low wattage inverters won't work you need at least 500 to 1000 W approximately
Yes. The fridge was a bad test for the inverters. I didn't give enough test for the fridge to start the compressor. Thanks for the info and comment.
a difference I note between my victron 500 and 3 1500 or 2000w cheaper inverter is the voltage stability.
victron stay at 230v at any power. only drop 228 at 90-100% power. the others drop just at 50% power and a 100% maybe give 210v.
Victron give 230v with 14,4v input and also with discharged battery at 10.8v. The others have a little output voltage drop if input drop.
victron if you shut down a 100% rated power load, have much less voltage pick than the others, and have less voltage drop when you start the big load.
Thank you for the info.
my victron 500va start a fridge and una mola a disco da 500w. stay at 520 w for hours and hours
Sir: At 67 watts on standby, the 2000 watt inverter is probably a low frequency unit and the large transformer is taking a lot of the 67 watts.
A T Burke
You're correct. It's low frequency alright. It also weighs a ton compared to the other ones! Thanks for the comment.
What makes the whole test suspect is that we don't know which ones are interrupted or pure sin wave? Pure sine wave is supposed to be much more efficient at every level.
I will admit the testing wasn't fully thought through. I need to re-evaluate the process of testing. Thanks for the comment.
Good video, its a damn shame the larger ones use so much standby. 60w X 24hrs a day is 1440 watt hours a day. A 12v Lead acid battery with 110ah only has 1320 watt hours of capacity. So that inverter uses more capacity per day, than an entire 110ah battery has, just on standby. Pretty terrible.
The reason you had no trouble with the refrigerator starting this time is that it had just been running a few seconds/minutes before. Fridges cycle on and off every XX minutes. That pause of XX minutes lets the refrigerant drain back and pool in the compressor. Then when it wants to kick on next time, its got more refrigerant to pump against which puts more load on it = more start up current required = inverter goes into overcurrent protect.
Also the start capacitor needs charging. So turning it on once, will charge it, but it might go into over current protect (because the start cap and the compressor are both drawing high current). But now the capacitor is charged, the next time you plug it in, the capacitor can do its job and help start the compressor going.
I learned this because I've been trying to get my 600w / 1200w peak pure sine wave inverter to run my mini fridge. When I first plug it in, the compressor tries to spin, it goes into fault mode and then if I try a few more times the compressor will start spinning and it wont go into fault mode.
That and the obvious fact its an inductive load which inverters hate. I've used an AC soft starter relay module with moderate success. Prior to using one my 600w inverter wouldnt run the fridge at all, it would go into fault no matter what. With the soft starter between the inverter and fridge, the inverter still beeps at me to say its not happy, but after a few seconds it stops crying and runs the fridge fine.
Thank you so much for all of the great information!
That blue inverter is sick. Should be able to put out a real consistent voltage under the loads you are running. It's a bit tricky to compare directly a PSW and an MSW inverter's efficiency . An MSW tends to draw less standby, but it's output power can cause issues with many devices. BTW, my cheap modern refer pulls about 100W after starting, unless it's in defrost cycle, in which case it's about 400W. (but I don't think the compressor's running, just a heating element.) I'm running it on an Ideaplay 2000WH 'solar' generator pack. It's good for about 40-50 hours runtime, depending n temps and how often I run the coffee maker and microwave from it. (High loads, but short duration). The rest of the house (LED lighting, computer/internet/cell site/50"TV routers, CCTV sys, CPAP and electric blanket) runs from a 400W (Soon to be 800W) sine wave computer UPS that is powered by about 7kWh worth of 36V Li-ion recycled scooter batteries. In the mountains and lose power quite often, sometimes several days. Too many trees for solar, use a couple different (1800W and 3000W) inverter generators to charge up things if it's staying down for awhile. (See my channel's couple vids about the cobbled up system and what happens when you drive a drywall screw into a scooter battery pack..:)
When I lost utility power for a couple years back a ways, I used a 12V system with a modified APC ups to run the house lights, laptop, internet, TV and so on. A trick I used for a really low draw refer setup was one of the bigger (11CF?) chest freezers hooked to a 3000W low frequency PSW monster inverter that pulled about 30W standby. The real trick was using a cheap electronic thermostat in the freezer set to maintain 36ish F temps. The freezer 'stat was just left in the middle. The new thermostat was wired into monster inverter's trigger input and in line with it's power cord, also plugged into the big inverter. Normally, the inverter was entirely off and only used for microwave, coffee and the creek water pump. If the freezer/refer needed to run, tho, it would fire up the inverter and connect the compressor in until it hit temp again, then completely shut down. (Unless the inverter was on for other items.) As a chest freezer's the least lossy type of refrigeration when opened, and it's insulated for much lower temps, I didn't even see a loss of battery run time, compared to the lower but longer loads from the UPS draw. (Freezer draws about 80W once it's running stable. Big start kick, tho.) Anyway, this is just a bit of out of the box thinking stuff to really tighten up your losses and be able to have the low loss situation (400W UPS always on) and the big daddy power when needed without having to waste the standby current. Most larger inverters have these trigger (remote) inputs to make this easier.
Sorry for the ramble but battery/emergency/cheap power's kinda my thing. (40+ years messing with such, 20 years UPS/Standby power systems at a large international airport and 50+ years as an electronic tech/hobbyist, now building/testing/repairing broadcast electronics. And living in a redwood forest...) Take care, keep on creating! Blessings, Stu
Wow Stu! Thank you for all of the great info and background of your knowledge and situation. I will definitely check out your channel. What is the name? Screw through battery = not good! I do admit the fridge test in this video wasn't the best, but at least it makes people think. Thanks again!
PS. The blue inverter had a blown capacitor. ALFFAA sent me a new one under warranty.
Using a modified sign Wade inverter along with not sounding right also causes things to not run as efficiently eating up more power from your batteries. This is generally more effective with motors and sensitive electronics. Now that most electronics use a switch mode power supply this is not so much an issue although there are some cheap Chinese ones out there In both camps. And then there's compressor lock up if the compressor was running when it was unplugged the surge current needed to start it back up again could be rather high. Laying it sit for a few seconds decompression can drop down.
Thanks for the good information and the comment.
Oh yeah in someways it might be more efficient to have a slightly higher standby current on a pure sine wave inverter then to run a modified sine wave inverter. But I haven't personally tested this.
Ë = It is used to indicate that the E is to be pronounced separately from the preceding vowel
Thank you for the info and the comment.
good stuff
Thank you.
if put switch between the positive of battery and inverter you not lost power shout it off when not in ussed
Depending exactly when (which point in the sine wave) you plug your appliance into the inverter, the instantaneous power draw will be that much higher. So if you try and power your device on at the peak of the sine wave, current draw for a compressor / AC motor startup will be much lower compared to if you plugged in your device at the bottom of the sine wave - because the voltage is lower there, current requirement to start the compressor will be that much higher that your inverter can trip.
Thank you for the info and the comment.
For a 220V chainsaw that draws 900w continuous you NEED a 3000W inverter, because when you start the motor, it draws for a second or two some peaks of APPARENT power up to 5000VA, because au motor (like in a fridge) has a low power factor (like a pump) and so it draws a lot of VA (apparent power) and then a lower Watt count (active power) only resistive devices like a heater are drawing same VA than Watts ( power factor equals 1 ) and the 3000W inverter is accepting up to 6000VA for a second, and can deliver 2500W continuous. (need to read and understand all the specs)
Great Info. Thanks again!
i am lee Very important topic Thanks
You’re welcome 😊
This dude seem hella happy tho hahahah
Thanks! I try to make my videos informative and entertaining. Thanks for the comment.
i do not think that the 500w and the 1100W inverter actually handling the compressor startup surge, you can test by turn the temperature to warmer and let it sit for a couple minutes, then turn the fridge control knob to max and see what will happen. You should also get a clamp-on Amp meter that can show peak current capture on the output AC side of the inverter.
The standby power of Low frequency inverter such as the 2000W unit you have will have higher power consumption in stand by than the High Frequency inverter at the same power rating.
Thanks for the info. I'll try to run the fridge for an extended amount of time on just the 500w inverter to see if it can last.
@@OffGridBasement BTW, what does the tag on the fridge show as far as the Voltage and current? My 25 cu-ft side by side shows 120V 6.5A full load, I check compressor startup, it is over 30 Ac Amp. Also does your fridge use a couple 25W incandescent lamp? When I try using 1500W inverter, I can hear the compressor trying to come on then I can hear it click off due to false start (lock rotor), but the circulating fan is still running which will make you think the compressor is running.
what kind of inverter should i get to run a hair dryer or flat iron?
You don't want to max out your inverter every time you use it. Whatever the hair dryer is rated for I would double it in the size of the inverter. 1000w hair dryer = 2000w inverter. Hope this helps. Thanks for the comment.
When you were testing the refrigerator did you wait for the compressor to kick on each time?
The compressor kicked on as soon as I plugged in the refrigerator. The fridge was pulling over 100w from each inverter I plugged in. Thanks for the question!
@@OffGridBasement Mine pulls about 240 watts when on and it's smaller than your. But it's also a lot older.
Did you actually allowed the compressor to kick and start cooling or just to see the inner light on. 🤔
The compressor kicked on as soon as I plugged in the refrigerator. The fridge was pulling over 100w from each inverter I plugged in. Thanks for the question!
I think the compressor was running with the small inverter... the lights and electronics in the fridge don't consume 100 watts, as for managing to handle the surge it coud be the inverter design/components or the fridge has a slow start compressor to minimise it... the strange thing is the inverter didn't beep an overload alarm
I'm not sure what all happened with the inverter. I didn't want to mess with the fridge after that just because it was brand new and I didn't want to mess anything up with it.
Efficiency is very different at different loads level on the inverters. I have a cheap chinese 3000W 24VDC to 220VAC and it is efficient when it is outputting about 1000W to 2000W but with low power it is less efficient, and also the efficiency drops when pushing it to 2500W which is its real sustained max. it draws 44w idle, and its peak efficiency is 97% @ 1500W. To correct your terminology : efficiency at idle is zero, because you produce 0W and there is an idle consumption, so efficiency at idle is zero. Efficiency of mine is above 85% from 1000W to the max. However the drawback is that neutral is not neutral, to achieve 220VAC it gives 2x 110V in phase opposite, this can be dangerous if not known or not accounted for. (and it is NOT EU standard, neutral should be zero Volt )
Thank you for the great information and comment.
Thanks 🙂🙂🙂 the only thing not try is Tablesaw my table is 15A my inverter is 3000 watts pure sine wave I know its run things 8.5A.10A.12A but never try Tablesaw 15A
The surge on the table saw might be too much. Good luck!
Lock rotor it will cook your fridge if you dont wait for the presser to come down it take s abot 2 minis and it can cook a invertet too id never try any then less then a 2000 watt inverter pure sine wave
Thank you for the info and the comment.
Question. I've a submersible water pump that I intend to use , Off-grid, for 12 hours every day,. The water pump power rating is 1700w(1.7kw). I also have an array of Solar Panels of 3600w output capacity. I've no need for battery or charge controller, only an Inverter, as I don't need to store energy. I intend to use the power directly on the appliance. What size/capacity of Off-grid Solar Power Inverter do I need to buy. Thank you.
Unfortunately you can't go from solar panels straight to an inverter. Depending on how the panels are wired, it could be way too much voltage. That's why you need a solar charge controller. It regulates the voltage of the panels. I also think you will need a battery bank to constantly pull that much energy. Sorry this isn't what you wanted to hear.
@@OffGridBasement Yes. But thanks anyway. I appreciate it.
Light on inside refrigerator, doesn't mean the compressor is starting and running. 1A isn't the full load. They typically run 300-600 watts which is 2.5-5 amps, with a relay and motor start surge on top of that.
You are correct with the assertion that the 108V inverter may not start the refrigerator.
Thanks for the info. I found out the 108v inverter had a blown capacitor. I've since got it replaced with warranty. Thanks for the comment.
Hi, You have cosmetic errors in the last table :)
The efficiency percentages are as follows: 89,09 - 77,76 - 74,18 - 57,69
Best regards from Estonia!
Thank you!
Induction motors, like a fridge compressor, do not like modified sine wave power. In fact, they can be damaged if the modified sine wave inverter is used for a long time. Also, having the lights and display in the fridge turn on is not proof that the inverter is capable of powering the fridge. Will the compressor work? THAT is the question.
Thanks for the information and the comment.
Does the 1500W Alfaa say 98% efficient specifically for standby? Or is it trying to imply 98% inverter efficiency at a certain load? Does it make any claims for efficiency at 50% load or anything like that?
I think most high frequency inverters (in the 1kw to 3kw range) are in the mid to high 80's when they have a decent load on them, low 80's when they have a small load on them.
98% is with no load. I believe you are correct about 80+% on a decent load. Thanks for the comment.
Light on in fridge doesnt mean the inverter handled the surge when the compressor comes on. I wish i could find info on what I could buy the would run a fridge.
I've done other videos about the fridge using a 1500w inverter. I honestly don't know what the minimum would be. It depends on the amperage output of the fridge. You would then triple that and multiple it by the voltage to get the wattage needed for start up.
Remember you got to take a Count the big daddy one has a transformer it needs to power that is why the search is so big And yes it is a low frequency inverter
The only reason I don't like it is b/c it states to not use for Lifepo4 chemistry. I could still use it if I needed, but I would rather use a regular Lifepo4 charger. Low Frequency is nice, but again... I currently don't have a use for it. Maybe if I get a big 12v bank I could find a way to utilize it. I'll probably just end up putting it in my dad's RV. Thanks for the comment and the info!
the big is clearly square iron transformer with 58% . I remember that is not possible to compare efficiency for different power, and the same load. efficiency is better near rated power. this is reason why the 500w inverter with 100w load is the best. and you can compare even less, a big low frequency square transformer with small high frequency. the big have specific use on repeated very inductive loads
Thanks for the comment.
Does anyone know if the Whistler 3,000 watt is any good for van life? Thank you..
I'm sure it will work just fine. The reason it's under $200 is because it is a modified sine wave inverter.
Cool
After watching this video I tried to charge my Tesla with a 500w inverter it did not work no idea why but it did turn on the interior light??????????
Haha! I can't understand why it didn't work. Might want to get a 600w inverter and try again. 😜
Seems you would damage the refrigerator at lower than 120 volts. It may run but over time the compressor would fail.
You're correct. This would only be a temporary solution. Thanks for the comment.
I think your refrigerator had just finished defrosting. My refrigerator compressor does not kick-in for few minutes right after the defrost cycle.
The compressor kicked on as soon as I plugged in the refrigerator. The fridge was pulling over 100w from each inverter I plugged in. Thanks for the question!
how do you measure the standby efficiency, with nothing being fed on the output?
efficiency is out/in, not zero/ in 18.20
I figured it to be the power it took to run the unit without a load. I guess I should measure in increments to see the losses in incremental steps of power. Thanks for the info.
Dumb question but why not just install a circuit breaker on the power side to minimize any standby wattage
So you can turn the inverter off and on? It would work well if you don't mind manually switching the circuit breaker on every time you want to use the inverter. Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement I’m trying to build a power station so I can just run an a/c on it at night it’s an a/c that doesn’t take much power
Which one inverter brand do you think is better?
My full time inverter is the brand "Reliable" and it just works. If you have the extra money I would go with Victron. It really depends on what you are using it for. Thanks for the question.
@@OffGridBasement thank you for kind answer
Keep in mind, when an inductive motor starts up, it will pull more current then when it is running.
Do not use the advertised watt rating as good enough.
Also, there are the scam products that just outright lie.
Thank you for the info and the comment.
the big is low frequency, probably square iron transformer. pro: work for life. Withstands repeated inrush current of inductive loads for years, which destroy any inverter High frequency economic. cons: lower efficiency and high consumption
Very true. Thanks for the comment.
Have a 1000w pure sine. When it comes to my chest freezer, which only pulls 90w running, occasionally the surge kicks off the inverter. Haven't figured out why. It can be running fine cycling on and off all day, but sometimes the inverter says no.
That's odd b/c it should only be surging about 300w. Could it be a defrost feature that kicking it? Thanks for the comment.
I would keep an eye on input voltage.
The amount of power to start a compressor varies quite significantly. If your power inverter is not quite big enough it may start the compressor most of the time but not all of the time.
Was the refrigerator compressor coming on during each test?
I don't think so. I didn't run the inverters for long enough.