Battery construction, composition and chemistry are changing. We see a new method of constructing batteries on Monroe Live. They printed the electrodes and had no liquid electrolyte. Driving nails through the cells only resulted in a voltage drop.
They had NO/ZERO TRAINING and had only 1 exit where the fire was !!!~~~~ The Fire Department warn them in April 2024. Korean people and Government safety is the last priority on their list.......
@@RelkondNo it's the factory owner's decision to put workers in such dangerous condition without proper training just to save money. If anyone in the company knew about the danger the most, it's higher-ups, not workers just working for the day there. It's nothing to do with natural selection or act of Darwin. It's rather act of capitalism. Murder by the business owner and Korean government.
*Those in charge of all such facilities should make clear to workers that in dangerous situations their first responsibility is to protect themselves and their fellow workers.* I spent a summer doing air conditioner installation and repair. We were reminded that if one started to fall when being installed, don't try to stop it. Get out of the way. Protect yourself. That A/C could always be replaced.
2:30 see how fast those toxic fumes spread? They're behind the guys with the extinguisher (that they should have been told is useless) already, poor guys should be running for their lives & telling everyone else to do the same. Shockingly bad fire training here, sickening to see.
@@dannelson6980 I'm in Australia and the best we got was a line about a factory fire that killed 22. our media and government do not speak about such incidents because it retracks from their narrative 'the battery is our future saviour'. even companies like BHP follow this political PR dogma, while internal reports conclude that the high costs and limited production will not be enough to make significant changes. i could go on about the hypocrisy of government, business and media. but who's going to listen.
That this happened in South Korea is not surprising. The key reasons the ferry MV Sewol rolled over and sank in 2914 was (1) irresponsible behavior by the owner and (2) lax enforcement by the Korean coast guard. In this case I suspect fire codes were not being followed and enforced.
I am interested in lithium iron phosphate batteries because my La Mesa City Council is planning on putting a battery storage facility in back of my house, just a few feet away.
The regulations will make it near on impossible to make them. Batteries stored so many feet away from each other, fire suppressants, metal containers to contain the fires to a limited area etc The batteries will be too expensive to be worth while.
I don't know what kind of fire suppression system could be used in such a facility. lithium reacts violently with water just like the other alkali metals to release hydrogen. The problem I see in this facility is the cells being stored stacked on top of one another. The only application I've heard of for large lithium metal cells is in EPIRBs.I think their advantage is long shelf life.
re: "I don't know what kind of fire suppression system could be used in such a facility." A: none, the reality is if you're thinking about the problem in terms of "Fire Suppression" at the FACILITY LEVEL...? then it means you're already TOO LATE and have made the "classic mistake" (no worries, this mistake describes what most people do) of trying to solve the problem at the COMPLETELY WRONG PART OF THE EQUATION.
@@phillyphil1513 I was commenting on the call for fire suppression in the video and made the point that it's not possible. I then went on to comment exactly as you're suggesting e.g. prevention of the fire in the first place and then steps to reduce the risk of a single cell failure turning into a major conflagration by having adequate separation or isolation between the cells. Having cardboard boxed of hem stacked high should have never been allowed.
Thanks for the chemistry clarification. I'm curious why we haven't heard of this kind of event with a plant making these. These batteries have been around for decades -- coin cells and larger sizes too.
re: "I'm curious why we haven't heard of this kind of event with a plant making these." no worries, that just means we (personally) haven't heard of it FULLSTOP not that they haven't occurred. what i'm getting at, is that it's VERY important we guard ourselves against this idea that just because we "desire" to know something...? or that we "think" certain news is important...? that it means this information will "automatically" be communicated to us, as sadly having this happen is NOT a forgone conclusion... let me explain, if it weren't for Captain Durham's report on the GINORMOUS HAZMAT DEFLAGRATION down at the 250MW Gateway Energy BESS in Otay Mesa Ca that he uploaded on 6-19-24, i would literally STILL NOT KNOW ABOUT IT even here now on July 4th. wait what...? that's right and i'm a person who "claims" to be informed on these events (try to be anyway). now an even GREATER IRONY about this, is that fire actually broke out a whole month earlier back on 5-15-24 and basically burned for more than 7 days and i still hadn't seen a SINGLE news report about it anywhere...? granted i live way over on the East Coast (ref: PHL, NYC, DC), and technically i was traveling at the time of the event, so it's quite possible i missed a blurb in the media, but even now a full 50 days later i STILL haven't seen a single report on the Local or National News. what information i DO know (besides that provided by the good Captain) has come from me DELIBERATELY punching it in to the Google Machine, and ONLY when i do that does the information come right up in the form of reports done by the News Stations in San Diego which is the major market local to Otay Mesa. hint: the other nearest news market is Tijuana Mexico (and i'm not holding my breath waiting to receive any coverage from them way over here in the East).... honestly i'm still fairly disturbed by this and how i've seen WAY MORE reports on the Aricell fire in South Korea...? than i've seen about an equally large fire (if not larger fire) that's technically occurred right here within the borders of 'Murica...? Gateway burned for more than 1 week and had Firefighters attending for 2 weeks, in stark contrast Aricell (albeit incurring numerous fatalities) only lasted for 5 hours (+/-). i guess the old Journalism Business saying "If it Bleeds it Leads" is true.
Hi there I've worked on a fire system for racking. The sprinkler pipe had 30 psi air pressure to show damage it regularly needed fixing. The fire sensing was a cable with 2 loops of higrade copper as itwas headed the resistance of both loops would drop and this would cause the pipe to be filled with water. Unfortunately the racking was regularly hit by massive static shocks which over loaded the system and it filled the pipe then damaging the stock. So good luck
@Telephonebill51 hi there everything is grounded it's due to static discharge from the forklifts. There ground strips keep collecting dust and rubbish and so they do geneeat some charge and you can see it arcke and this is included into the alarm
If you're trying to use a fire extinguisher to put out a battery fire? You don't understand battery fires. A for effort, F for applying the necessary knowledge.
A powder extinguisher is not helpful with a battery fire. You need something to cool down the remaining batteries. A sprinkler system would have helped.
I may have misunderstood, but you said that they should have a sprinkler system? Lithium is extremely reactive with water from what I remember of my school science class.
First video I saw on this did some rudimentary math with the number of cells (no knowing what size cells were actually involved) and concluded that Teslas are all bombs waiting to go off. Thank-you for clarifying the chemistry involved, and explaining why that matters.
The internal resistance of Lithium ion batteries rises when they age leading to a lot of fire risks over time. I am fearful that the huge battery installations near residential areas are going to catch fire like ticking time bombs. If they are failing when new like at otay mesa, I can’t even imagine how unstable they’ll be in 5 or 10 years.
That's totally true Lithium ion battery produce more and more heat loss when they age and this is increasing risk, however, Smart BMS ( if they are equiped with that type) should be made so that they communicate their SOP ( State Of Power) based on their SOH ( State Of health) to the load so they adjust and decrease the load to these battery over the time/age. Also the BTMS ( Battery thermal Management System will also increase the flow rate of the cooling circuit over the years to compensate for the heat loss made by the IR increase of the battery and correct the heat rejection rate.
@@Doctorbasssare these smart BMS mandated by law or code? What is the backup or fail safe if the BMS fails? Are any of these things checked periodically during the lifetime of the battery installation?
I just can’t understand why there is such a rush to adopt lithium battery storage. It’s like the new rush for nuclear reactors in the 1950s, with electricity ‘too cheap to meter’ and no worries of meltdowns. The net-zero philosophy is like a religion and it’s not close to fully planned or the technology established.
@@sullivanrachael Net zero is not a "religion" per se: but you are correct to point out that there is no clear plan to get there. The cost of NOT mitigating climate change far exceeds the cost of electrifying almost everything.
Look at how those batteries are stacked on pallets with little separation much less barriers to limit the spread of heat from an on-fire pallet to others. We're now planning catch-up with this new battery tech. Building and fire codes should mandate proper protection. In the long run that's cheaper than losing employees and an entire warehouse.
IIRC, a lithium metal (as opposed to lithium ion) fire and water don’t mix, so a sprinkler system is out. Better to run for safety. BTW, the smoke given off by either fire is very toxic.
How come, they didn’t have sand barrels in the factory for this kind of thing happening to where you would throw the batteries into a barrel of very fine sand because that’s about the only way you can put out a fire like that or a barrel of water to where you were just dumped a whole box of batteries into it
Any and all lithium (or any other chemistry for that matter) batteries that have a thermal runaway potential, even by a least amount, are not safe. The margin of safety is rather a conditional if, at the best. There are always cases, eventhough how small they are, are not negligible to deem them safe under all conditions.
What a horrible incident. But I bet the level of jeopardy we see is far from rare, globally. It's alarming to think that other people who work in potentially hazardous areas - whether it's meat-packing, mining, foundries, chemical-waste handling, recycling centres, or with heavy machinery in any of a dozen industries - will see this and say, "Well, those poor guys were untrained and foreign and it's not happened to us, so our safety procedures here must be fine"; which is the short route to disaster via a workplace culture of complacency and 'getting away with it... THIS time'. That's how some major, world-class corporations have lost their once excellent reputations and safety records. Everything - EVERYTHING - can always be improved.
i'm in the uk and i was always taught: if you discover a fire, hit the nearest fire alarm callpoint immediately and then tackle the fire only if safe to do so - that is pretty much verbatim from the safety signage at all workplaces but we were also told: if the fire isn't out after the first extinguisher is empty - leave immediately, it is for the professionals now.
Can it happen in the USA with all their building codes, it shouldn't but I bet it will. When companies start to get into financial trouble, risks start being taken to be profitable.
As mentioned in the video and as I tell students in my workplace safety classes, safety rules and regulations are, for the most part, written in blood. As we adopt new technology, frequently we encounter new dangers and existing guidelines may no longer be adequate. Condolences to the workers who perished and their families. Hopefully, this will lead to better regulation.
@@SeanPat1001 They know the batteries are a fire risk but they will take risks until the regulations catch up with them. Money before health and safety. Surely if you know something is hazardous you have to show you have the risk under control? To me the deaths are corporate man slaughter. There was nothing in place to stop the fire from spreading, only a useless fire extinguisher.
@@tonysheerness2427 The issue is that safety measures have definite costs which must be justified while the consequences of not taking those measures are unclear and may never happen. The challenge of safety management is often how to make the cost of those consequences more definite. Regulation makes the consequences of not implementing the measures more definite.
I give them props for trying to put it out, But Lithium batteries are fire traps cause once they start burning they wont stop till the chemicals are all burned like a rocket engine.
We were discussing this fire last week. We did not know the batteries were lithium metal, like what you buy at your local store. Those are a completely different than your other types of lithium batteries, that would be in a laptop, phone, car, or bike. The single lithium batteries use lithium metal and reactive to water once exposed. Lithium ion batteries are typically compounds like lithium cobalt oxide, lithium manganese oxide, lithium iron phosphate, and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide, which does not react to water like pure lithium or sodium does. Those you can dump into water till they are fully discharged. When a Lithium ion battery is fully discharged they are fairly stable. In a plant, a CO2 extinguisher pin pointed at the cell in thermal runaway freezing the cell will slow the fire, freezing the cells around the cell will also buy a small amount of time. Followed up with a Class D extinguisher will buy more time to get people and possibly batteries out of the building.
@@StacheDTraining This procedure is what a manufacturer came up with in case of fire during pack assembly. It gives them a nice window of time to remove it from the area. They also have large dummy loads to discharge a damaged pack. There is people doing nothing but destroying batteries in testing to come up with new ways to control a battery fire. There are certain applications were there a higher risk of the packs being damaged.
First off i want to express my sadness for the tragic death of 23 souls. Unfortunately rechargeable or secondary lithium metal anode batteries are latest developmental craze. They promise EV with 500+ mile range. Soon we will have these on our roads. TWICE the stored energy of the best Li Ion cells, and lithium metal which burns in air, and reacts violently with water to produce explosive Hydrogen. If you think current EV fires are bad, just wait!
@@yootoobvyooer Right, because lithium ion fires could *never* happen at an EV battery plant and kill nearly 2 dozen people. Same materials, same dangers, you dolt.
@@yootoobvyooer Right, because lithium ion battery fires would *never* happen at a plant using the same materials for EV batteries. Exploding phones, exploding EVs. It's just a matter of size. Brilliant, right?
@@yootoobvyooer You're basically saying that a TNT factory that only makes material for things like construction is different than one that makes munitions. Those materials, when they explode, will do the same thing regardless of their intended market. :But sure, enjoy your e-waste car.
@@spazzypengin these are low cost low drain types that are typical of manufacture for cell phones and power tools NOT for EV. You're equating cheap lawnmower gasoline fire that burned million acres in wild fire to say that's the future of modern cars.
"As the smaller government and less regulation crowd gains power" - if that "crowd" had been in power then the proliferation of subsidised EVs would not have happened.
1:02 - bingo (in line with my research and documentation of the last 16 years) i've now downloaded and watched no less than 10 different reports from around the Globe regarding this latest Thermal Runaway Event, and i was hoping Captain that you saw this specific piece of footage as this is ROOT CAUSE and the proverbial "Smoking Gun"🤙or should we say "Smoking Battery" (pun intended) that explains the whole problem... yeah for it not only explains what occurred at the Aricell Factory in South Korea involving Non-Rechargeable "Primary" Cells, but explains a "historical pattern" or a "recurring theme" with all the events in regards to everything from the recent Gateway Energy BESS fire (5-15-2024), to the 2012 to Present Tesla Model-S fires, to the 2019 to Present Chevy Bolt fires, to the 2022 to Present E-bike fires torching out the 5 Boroughs of NYC, to the Samsung Note 7 fires circa 2016, etc... that's right, so despite the propaganda we hear from laymen and the grossly mis-informed trying to "prop-up" one Cell Type as being superior to another (Cylindrical vs Pouch vs Coin) the reality is NO FORM FACTOR is immune from "Human Factors"... see what i did there...?👀 or specifically no Form Factor is "immune" from the Human failure to perform 100% QC on any batch of Lithium Ion Batteries, a batch that a Manufacture is quick to ship out to a customer in hopes of realizing a PROFIT on. gentlemen this problem is as old as Mankind itself.
@@StacheDTraining bingo, you can bet the 3 Nobel Prize Recipients John Goodenough, Stan Wittingham, and Akira Yoshino (this last name is of particular importance as it relates to Sony Corp and the first Japanese Commercialization circa 1989) experienced every bit of this back 40 years ago, but "we the public" were NEVER going to be informed of the hazard, not a chance.
@@basspig re: "it may be possible to ventilate the building and contain the fire." therein lies the rub, it's PRECISELY the mistake/error of continuing to behave and think of these events simply as "FIRE" is what's now getting 23 people awarded "Medals of Valor" POSTHUMOUSLY for an event that basically only lasted 5 hours. the fire in this case is merely a "secondary by-product" or SYMPTOM of the initial Thermal Runaway event, therein fire is NOT Root Cause here, no for "Root Cause" in these situations is actually DEFLAGRATION or rapid, sub-sonic burning, which is a term we've all heard the Captain use quite frequently... what this means is (and i'm on record as saying this BEFORE this latest event happened) that we must get the courage to STOP viewing Li-ion Batteries as being "Inert" and START viewing Lithium Batteries in the Military context of being "Energetic Materials" or Low Order to High Order Detonations (super-sonic explosive Comp-B). that is to say, sure Li-ion Batteries are "SAFE" but they're only "SAFE" in the context of how an M67 Grenade is "SAFE", that is until someone pulls the arming pin, lets go of the "spoon", and then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE... right so just when we think we're "done with it" and that we've finally "solved the problem" (yay!!!) NO, we see there's an added DANGER OF TIME that we must confront, or more specifically what we have to confront is that once the "fuse" of Thermal Runaway has been "triggered", IT'S BASICALLY TOO LATE for us and at that point WE'RE ALREADY OUT OF TIME. if it helps, think of it like Leon (Jean Reno) in that famous scene from 1994's The Professional when he's laying on the hallway floor dying but manages to give Stansfield (Gary Oldman) that "wonderful Parting Gift from Matilda" (Natalie Portman) of the arming pin he pulled from one of the 8 Grenades hidden under his jacket.
@@phillyphil1513 Your second paragraph really puts this into perspective. Very cogent description--L-ion batteries really are slow detonating explosives in that sense. That said, I think the extent of the fire could have been lessened if personnel had a fire blanket to throw over that palette. Then go open some doors and let the gasses escape so at least they don't build up trapped to cause a larger inferno.
Lithium battery fires can and do happen in the US. Unsubbed.
Obviously, you didn't listen to my statement. There have been no factory fires to this scale in the US.
Come on Fred? Wth is wrong with you? Stay and learn, leave and become an uneducated victim.
that sensitive are we fred? wow
@@StacheDTraining Fred went off like a lithium metal battery. 😂
Battery construction, composition and chemistry are changing. We see a new method of constructing batteries on Monroe Live. They printed the electrodes and had no liquid electrolyte. Driving nails through the cells only resulted in a voltage drop.
Oh man, all those poor workers.
They had NO/ZERO TRAINING and had only 1 exit where the fire was !!!~~~~ The Fire Department warn them in April 2024. Korean people and Government safety is the last priority on their list.......
Wore??? Mean warn?
So with they stored an inextinguishable fire hazard at the single point of exit/entry? Seriously?
That would make this an act of Darwin...
@@RelkondNo it's the factory owner's decision to put workers in such dangerous condition without proper training just to save money. If anyone in the company knew about the danger the most, it's higher-ups, not workers just working for the day there. It's nothing to do with natural selection or act of Darwin. It's rather act of capitalism. Murder by the business owner and Korean government.
Does not sound like a korean company if so
It's mostly Chinese nationals workers who died, but still!
Even 1 death is too many. Prayers to the families involved.
*Those in charge of all such facilities should make clear to workers that in dangerous situations their first responsibility is to protect themselves and their fellow workers.* I spent a summer doing air conditioner installation and repair. We were reminded that if one started to fall when being installed, don't try to stop it. Get out of the way. Protect yourself. That A/C could always be replaced.
2:30 see how fast those toxic fumes spread? They're behind the guys with the extinguisher (that they should have been told is useless) already, poor guys should be running for their lives & telling everyone else to do the same. Shockingly bad fire training here, sickening to see.
Sorry to tell you, it is 23 dead now, they have found the missing person.
I've seen a high as 28, but I haven't seen anything official. Most news agencies have settled on 22.
Even if that was the rechargeable Li-ion battery version, it would have still been bad. Even at 30%, they still contain a LOT of energy.
this wasn't even a blip on our news networks. it just shows what the priorities are for these stations
It was all over the news. Maybe look at all the news sources.
@@dannelson6980 I'm in Australia and the best we got was a line about a factory fire that killed 22. our media and government do not speak about such incidents because it retracks from their narrative 'the battery is our future saviour'. even companies like BHP follow this political PR dogma, while internal reports conclude that the high costs and limited production will not be enough to make significant changes.
i could go on about the hypocrisy of government, business and media. but who's going to listen.
That this happened in South Korea is not surprising. The key reasons the ferry MV Sewol rolled over and sank in 2914 was (1) irresponsible behavior by the owner and (2) lax enforcement by the Korean coast guard. In this case I suspect fire codes were not being followed and enforced.
I am interested in lithium iron phosphate batteries because my La Mesa City Council is planning on putting a battery storage facility in back of my house, just a few feet away.
These poor soulds did not have ANY training at all. Because teaching: RUN!!!!! does not take long to teach.
The battery business is deadly, not just because of the fire hazards. But the materials can be poisonous to people even when not on fire.
The regulations will make it near on impossible to make them. Batteries stored so many feet away from each other, fire suppressants, metal containers to contain the fires to a limited area etc The batteries will be too expensive to be worth while.
The common worker has no value and it,s been this way since time began and will remain so
Ok Karin...you earned your cookie.
Just sucks that the alternatives are even worse.
more importantly - youtube unsubscribed me. i heard this happens but i didn't believe it. now i do. resubd
Class D extinguishers are insanely expensive, no way a low cost facility like this would have any.
I don't know what kind of fire suppression system could be used in such a facility. lithium reacts violently with water just like the other alkali metals to release hydrogen. The problem I see in this facility is the cells being stored stacked on top of one another. The only application I've heard of for large lithium metal cells is in EPIRBs.I think their advantage is long shelf life.
re: "I don't know what kind of fire suppression system could be used in such a facility." A: none, the reality is if you're thinking about the problem in terms of "Fire Suppression" at the FACILITY LEVEL...? then it means you're already TOO LATE and have made the "classic mistake" (no worries, this mistake describes what most people do) of trying to solve the problem at the COMPLETELY WRONG PART OF THE EQUATION.
@@phillyphil1513 I was commenting on the call for fire suppression in the video and made the point that it's not possible. I then went on to comment exactly as you're suggesting e.g. prevention of the fire in the first place and then steps to reduce the risk of a single cell failure turning into a major conflagration by having adequate separation or isolation between the cells. Having cardboard boxed of hem stacked high should have never been allowed.
Thanks for the chemistry clarification. I'm curious why we haven't heard of this kind of event with a plant making these. These batteries have been around for decades -- coin cells and larger sizes too.
I assume small fires are common, but catastrophic fires are extremely rare.
re: "I'm curious why we haven't heard of this kind of event with a plant making these." no worries, that just means we (personally) haven't heard of it FULLSTOP not that they haven't occurred. what i'm getting at, is that it's VERY important we guard ourselves against this idea that just because we "desire" to know something...? or that we "think" certain news is important...? that it means this information will "automatically" be communicated to us, as sadly having this happen is NOT a forgone conclusion...
let me explain, if it weren't for Captain Durham's report on the GINORMOUS HAZMAT DEFLAGRATION down at the 250MW Gateway Energy BESS in Otay Mesa Ca that he uploaded on 6-19-24, i would literally STILL NOT KNOW ABOUT IT even here now on July 4th. wait what...? that's right and i'm a person who "claims" to be informed on these events (try to be anyway). now an even GREATER IRONY about this, is that fire actually broke out a whole month earlier back on 5-15-24 and basically burned for more than 7 days and i still hadn't seen a SINGLE news report about it anywhere...?
granted i live way over on the East Coast (ref: PHL, NYC, DC), and technically i was traveling at the time of the event, so it's quite possible i missed a blurb in the media, but even now a full 50 days later i STILL haven't seen a single report on the Local or National News. what information i DO know (besides that provided by the good Captain) has come from me DELIBERATELY punching it in to the Google Machine, and ONLY when i do that does the information come right up in the form of reports done by the News Stations in San Diego which is the major market local to Otay Mesa. hint: the other nearest news market is Tijuana Mexico (and i'm not holding my breath waiting to receive any coverage from them way over here in the East)....
honestly i'm still fairly disturbed by this and how i've seen WAY MORE reports on the Aricell fire in South Korea...? than i've seen about an equally large fire (if not larger fire) that's technically occurred right here within the borders of 'Murica...? Gateway burned for more than 1 week and had Firefighters attending for 2 weeks, in stark contrast Aricell (albeit incurring numerous fatalities) only lasted for 5 hours (+/-). i guess the old Journalism Business saying "If it Bleeds it Leads" is true.
Hi there I've worked on a fire system for racking. The sprinkler pipe had 30 psi air pressure to show damage it regularly needed fixing. The fire sensing was a cable with 2 loops of higrade copper as itwas headed the resistance of both loops would drop and this would cause the pipe to be filled with water. Unfortunately the racking was regularly hit by massive static shocks which over loaded the system and it filled the pipe then damaging the stock. So good luck
...and one would think that it was surely grounded...
@Telephonebill51 hi there everything is grounded it's due to static discharge from the forklifts. There ground strips keep collecting dust and rubbish and so they do geneeat some charge and you can see it arcke and this is included into the alarm
to think... the people in this footage were almost guaranteed to be some of the people who died... this is their last moments...
If you're trying to use a fire extinguisher to put out a battery fire? You don't understand battery fires. A for effort, F for applying the necessary knowledge.
Asian culture is different, especially Korean/Japanese. They try to do their best to protect others, even if they know they are going to die.
Most of those who died were Chinese nationals, mostly women.
A powder extinguisher is not helpful with a battery fire. You need something to cool down the remaining batteries. A sprinkler system would have helped.
I may have misunderstood, but you said that they should have a sprinkler system?
Lithium is extremely reactive with water from what I remember of my school science class.
Standby for a video on that topic in the future.
In these factories, do you feel that there should be breathing masks like in many old Halon suppressed rooms. One for every employee in the area.
So who died the guy with the fire extinguisher ?
First video I saw on this did some rudimentary math with the number of cells (no knowing what size cells were actually involved) and concluded that Teslas are all bombs waiting to go off.
Thank-you for clarifying the chemistry involved, and explaining why that matters.
How about the Lifepo4 batteries? Do they burn?
They can, but typically, they will off gas a flammable mixture that could cause an explosion.
Do we know if anyone on the video survived.
Unfortunately, we don't.
The internal resistance of Lithium ion batteries rises when they age leading to a lot of fire risks over time. I am fearful that the huge battery installations near residential areas are going to catch fire like ticking time bombs. If they are failing when new like at otay mesa, I can’t even imagine how unstable they’ll be in 5 or 10 years.
That's totally true Lithium ion battery produce more and more heat loss when they age and this is increasing risk, however, Smart BMS ( if they are equiped with that type) should be made so that they communicate their SOP ( State Of Power) based on their SOH ( State Of health) to the load so they adjust and decrease the load to these battery over the time/age. Also the BTMS ( Battery thermal Management System will also increase the flow rate of the cooling circuit over the years to compensate for the heat loss made by the IR increase of the battery and correct the heat rejection rate.
@@Doctorbasssare these smart BMS mandated by law or code? What is the backup or fail safe if the BMS fails? Are any of these things checked periodically during the lifetime of the battery installation?
I just can’t understand why there is such a rush to adopt lithium battery storage. It’s like the new rush for nuclear reactors in the 1950s, with electricity ‘too cheap to meter’ and no worries of meltdowns. The net-zero philosophy is like a religion and it’s not close to fully planned or the technology established.
@@sullivanrachael Net zero is not a "religion" per se: but you are correct to point out that there is no clear plan to get there.
The cost of NOT mitigating climate change far exceeds the cost of electrifying almost everything.
You are "fearful"? Why, do you live near one?
Look at how those batteries are stacked on pallets with little separation much less barriers to limit the spread of heat from an on-fire pallet to others. We're now planning catch-up with this new battery tech. Building and fire codes should mandate proper protection. In the long run that's cheaper than losing employees and an entire warehouse.
Isn’t Lithium Metal highly water reactive?
IIRC, a lithium metal (as opposed to lithium ion) fire and water don’t mix, so a sprinkler system is out. Better to run for safety. BTW, the smoke given off by either fire is very toxic.
How come, they didn’t have sand barrels in the factory for this kind of thing happening to where you would throw the batteries into a barrel of very fine sand because that’s about the only way you can put out a fire like that or a barrel of water to where you were just dumped a whole box of batteries into it
Bravo Sir
Doesnt sound like a good idea, anyway you look at it . Seems doomed. I'm not interested, nor can I afford . Prayers for all the workers
Any and all lithium (or any other chemistry for that matter) batteries that have a thermal runaway potential, even by a least amount, are not safe. The margin of safety is rather a conditional if, at the best. There are always cases, eventhough how small they are, are not negligible to deem them safe under all conditions.
What a horrible incident. But I bet the level of jeopardy we see is far from rare, globally.
It's alarming to think that other people who work in potentially hazardous areas - whether it's meat-packing, mining, foundries, chemical-waste handling, recycling centres, or with heavy machinery in any of a dozen industries - will see this and say, "Well, those poor guys were untrained and foreign and it's not happened to us, so our safety procedures here must be fine"; which is the short route to disaster via a workplace culture of complacency and 'getting away with it... THIS time'.
That's how some major, world-class corporations have lost their once excellent reputations and safety records.
Everything - EVERYTHING - can always be improved.
i'm in the uk and i was always taught: if you discover a fire, hit the nearest fire alarm callpoint immediately and then tackle the fire only if safe to do so - that is pretty much verbatim from the safety signage at all workplaces but we were also told: if the fire isn't out after the first extinguisher is empty - leave immediately, it is for the professionals now.
Can it happen in the USA with all their building codes, it shouldn't but I bet it will. When companies start to get into financial trouble, risks start being taken to be profitable.
That was a little different scenario. The issue was improperly stored butane.
As mentioned in the video and as I tell students in my workplace safety classes, safety rules and regulations are, for the most part, written in blood.
As we adopt new technology, frequently we encounter new dangers and existing guidelines may no longer be adequate.
Condolences to the workers who perished and their families. Hopefully, this will lead to better regulation.
@@SeanPat1001 They know the batteries are a fire risk but they will take risks until the regulations catch up with them. Money before health and safety. Surely if you know something is hazardous you have to show you have the risk under control? To me the deaths are corporate man slaughter. There was nothing in place to stop the fire from spreading, only a useless fire extinguisher.
@@tonysheerness2427 The issue is that safety measures have definite costs which must be justified while the consequences of not taking those measures are unclear and may never happen. The challenge of safety management is often how to make the cost of those consequences more definite.
Regulation makes the consequences of not implementing the measures more definite.
I give them props for trying to put it out, But Lithium batteries are fire traps cause once they start burning they wont stop till the chemicals are all burned like a rocket engine.
Condolences to our S. Korean friends for their loss. 😞
"Perfect world"?? In the US?? You're kidding, right?
We were discussing this fire last week. We did not know the batteries were lithium metal, like what you buy at your local store. Those are a completely different than your other types of lithium batteries, that would be in a laptop, phone, car, or bike. The single lithium batteries use lithium metal and reactive to water once exposed. Lithium ion batteries are typically compounds like lithium cobalt oxide, lithium manganese oxide, lithium iron phosphate, and lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide, which does not react to water like pure lithium or sodium does. Those you can dump into water till they are fully discharged. When a Lithium ion battery is fully discharged they are fairly stable.
In a plant, a CO2 extinguisher pin pointed at the cell in thermal runaway freezing the cell will slow the fire, freezing the cells around the cell will also buy a small amount of time. Followed up with a Class D extinguisher will buy more time to get people and possibly batteries out of the building.
A Class D should work, but I'm not confident it would work.
@@StacheDTraining This procedure is what a manufacturer came up with in case of fire during pack assembly. It gives them a nice window of time to remove it from the area. They also have large dummy loads to discharge a damaged pack. There is people doing nothing but destroying batteries in testing to come up with new ways to control a battery fire. There are certain applications were there a higher risk of the packs being damaged.
😢
…. FYI Lithium is a metal.
First off i want to express my sadness for the tragic death of 23 souls.
Unfortunately rechargeable or secondary lithium metal anode batteries are latest developmental craze. They promise EV with 500+ mile range. Soon we will have these on our roads. TWICE the stored energy of the best Li Ion cells, and lithium metal which burns in air, and reacts violently with water to produce explosive Hydrogen.
If you think current EV fires are bad, just wait!
The future of the automotive world, folks.
You mean future of cell phones and power tools. These batteries were low drain types that would never be used in EV.
@@yootoobvyooer Right, because lithium ion fires could *never* happen at an EV battery plant and kill nearly 2 dozen people. Same materials, same dangers, you dolt.
@@yootoobvyooer Right, because lithium ion battery fires would *never* happen at a plant using the same materials for EV batteries. Exploding phones, exploding EVs. It's just a matter of size. Brilliant, right?
@@yootoobvyooer You're basically saying that a TNT factory that only makes material for things like construction is different than one that makes munitions. Those materials, when they explode, will do the same thing regardless of their intended market. :But sure, enjoy your e-waste car.
@@spazzypengin these are low cost low drain types that are typical of manufacture for cell phones and power tools NOT for EV. You're equating cheap lawnmower gasoline fire that burned million acres in wild fire to say that's the future of modern cars.
As the smaller government and less regulation crowd gains power this will become common in the US as well.
Regulations was probably the wrong word. Most everything comes from codes. I see the codes getting stronger in the future.
"As the smaller government and less regulation crowd gains power" - if that "crowd" had been in power then the proliferation of subsidised EVs would not have happened.
"safety concerns"; not so much
1:02 - bingo (in line with my research and documentation of the last 16 years) i've now downloaded and watched no less than 10 different reports from around the Globe regarding this latest Thermal Runaway Event, and i was hoping Captain that you saw this specific piece of footage as this is ROOT CAUSE and the proverbial "Smoking Gun"🤙or should we say "Smoking Battery" (pun intended) that explains the whole problem...
yeah for it not only explains what occurred at the Aricell Factory in South Korea involving Non-Rechargeable "Primary" Cells, but explains a "historical pattern" or a "recurring theme" with all the events in regards to everything from the recent Gateway Energy BESS fire (5-15-2024), to the 2012 to Present Tesla Model-S fires, to the 2019 to Present Chevy Bolt fires, to the 2022 to Present E-bike fires torching out the 5 Boroughs of NYC, to the Samsung Note 7 fires circa 2016, etc...
that's right, so despite the propaganda we hear from laymen and the grossly mis-informed trying to "prop-up" one Cell Type as being superior to another (Cylindrical vs Pouch vs Coin) the reality is NO FORM FACTOR is immune from "Human Factors"... see what i did there...?👀 or specifically no Form Factor is "immune" from the Human failure to perform 100% QC on any batch of Lithium Ion Batteries, a batch that a Manufacture is quick to ship out to a customer in hopes of realizing a PROFIT on. gentlemen this problem is as old as Mankind itself.
I recently read an interesting report from the 1980s on this same battery chemistry. It highlights many of the issues we see today.
@@StacheDTraining bingo, you can bet the 3 Nobel Prize Recipients John Goodenough, Stan Wittingham, and Akira Yoshino (this last name is of particular importance as it relates to Sony Corp and the first Japanese Commercialization circa 1989) experienced every bit of this back 40 years ago, but "we the public" were NEVER going to be informed of the hazard, not a chance.
EV-s ARE EV-il (their Lithium batteries)
2:40 - !
I wonder if those special fire blankets they use to throw over burning Tesla automobiles when I have helped in this situation to contain the fire?
Potentially. A blanket could contain the fire to a point. It won't contain the flammable gas.
@@StacheDTraining true about the hydrogen gas that is released, but it may be possible to ventilate the building and contain the fire.
@@basspig re: "it may be possible to ventilate the building and contain the fire." therein lies the rub, it's PRECISELY the mistake/error of continuing to behave and think of these events simply as "FIRE" is what's now getting 23 people awarded "Medals of Valor" POSTHUMOUSLY for an event that basically only lasted 5 hours. the fire in this case is merely a "secondary by-product" or SYMPTOM of the initial Thermal Runaway event, therein fire is NOT Root Cause here, no for "Root Cause" in these situations is actually DEFLAGRATION or rapid, sub-sonic burning, which is a term we've all heard the Captain use quite frequently...
what this means is (and i'm on record as saying this BEFORE this latest event happened) that we must get the courage to STOP viewing Li-ion Batteries as being "Inert" and START viewing Lithium Batteries in the Military context of being "Energetic Materials" or Low Order to High Order Detonations (super-sonic explosive Comp-B). that is to say, sure Li-ion Batteries are "SAFE" but they're only "SAFE" in the context of how an M67 Grenade is "SAFE", that is until someone pulls the arming pin, lets go of the "spoon", and then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE...
right so just when we think we're "done with it" and that we've finally "solved the problem" (yay!!!) NO, we see there's an added DANGER OF TIME that we must confront, or more specifically what we have to confront is that once the "fuse" of Thermal Runaway has been "triggered", IT'S BASICALLY TOO LATE for us and at that point WE'RE ALREADY OUT OF TIME. if it helps, think of it like Leon (Jean Reno) in that famous scene from 1994's The Professional when he's laying on the hallway floor dying but manages to give Stansfield (Gary Oldman) that "wonderful Parting Gift from Matilda" (Natalie Portman) of the arming pin he pulled from one of the 8 Grenades hidden under his jacket.
@@phillyphil1513 Your second paragraph really puts this into perspective. Very cogent description--L-ion batteries really are slow detonating explosives in that sense.
That said, I think the extent of the fire could have been lessened if personnel had a fire blanket to throw over that palette. Then go open some doors and let the gasses escape so at least they don't build up trapped to cause a larger inferno.
Did that toxic vapor cloud explode? 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yes. The gasses released are quite flammable.