Building a Daily-Driver Anyone Can Afford
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2024
- Project OSAKI is an Open-Source Automobile Kit Initiative.
Words cannot express how passionate I am about this new endeavor. Through Stand Motor Company, I will use this project to provide educational opportunities for every viewer who follows this journey and to revolutionize the automobile industry while doing so.
Because I dream of a world where distance is no longer a boundary,
travel is no longer a restriction,
and opportunities are abundant for all.
Consider joining the channel and playing a role in our journey!
/ @standracing
and check out standracing.com/ to get involved! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Quick note, according to that formula it is equally efficient to reduce CD and frontal area. The 0.5 is multiplied into the whole formula. However, reducing frontal area is easier than reducing CD for the same gains, so your point does still stand.
Another few things, there's a reason most cars have outboard brakes, and that reason is cooling, or more accurately, heat management.
Brakes get very hot. Placing them inside the vehicle makes them harder to cool and also makes their heat transfer into places you probably don't want it, such as the shocks or the body. Not saying it's impossible to fix those problems, but it's much more difficult than placing them inside the wheels where they're easier to cool and also easier to service.
The idea with the rotary engine that is speeding up and slowing down combined with the single rotor seems risky to me, as the vibrations would be huge. Rotaries also tend to get bad emissions and reliability due to the need to lubricate the apex seals, the average driver can't be trusted to add 2-stroke oil to the fuel tank so they have to inject engine oil instead which burns worse and causes bad emissions.
One idea that could be interesting is using a small engine as a generator to charge a battery instead of using it to drive the wheels, this could allow the car to be a plug-in electric with a range extender, possibly changing its emissions class and earning a tax credit if laws cooperate
Thanks for the feedback. I realized that about the formula after I shot it, but while I was editing it. I almost took it out, but I figured someone would quickly correct me and I could pin their comment :)
@@DJ_Level_3 lemme expand on this idea because I'm not a fan of series hybrids but hear me out. what he's gotta do is figure out a way for the rotary hybrid setup to go back and forth between parallel and series. I cooked up this thought randomly the other day so here it is: most plug in hybrids (which are parallel) as you know have the ability to drive on full electric, full gas, or both at the same time, utilizing the benefits from each. other, however, a series hybrid is pretty much just an ev with a generator built in. so my idea is, why not combine the two, via drive modes and/or coding. like lets say we have a few drive modes: full ev, full gas, combined, and charging. the first three are what you would normally expect in a parallel hybrid but charging is where the series transition comes in. yes parallel hybrids do have things like regen braking and charging the battery as you drive but it is very minuscule compared to what you might get with a proper generator. so if you flip it into charging mode, the gas engine will disconnect from whatever wheels it is driving and idle at a set speed (lets say like 3000rpm or so) and charge the battery as you drive, charging faster than you can drive, at least for city driving, that cant be guaranteed on the freeway. once it gets to idk, 80-90% charge, it can automatically switch back into a combined mode, making it a parallel hybrid once more. i know its an engineering challenge but it would change hybrids as we know them. anyways that's the end of this yap fest, my apologies for the long read
forgot to mention the coding side, you can have it coded so where you can drive in full ev mode, then when the battery dies, it'll switch to full gas and act as a parallel hybrid to slowly recharge the battery. once the battery has enough juice to carry itself (lets call it 30-50%), it'll switch to series mode automatically and let the engine idle to charge it the rest of the way, while driving on the electric power. the only other drive modes u would need would be sport, track/drag (depending on how much total hp it'll make), and off roading modes (potentially), this set of code will be ur default driving mode
Bro saw the "You wouldn't download a car" ad and was like "yes, yes I would"
I came her to find this comment, and I was not disappointed 😂
Not again! First the Aussie guy, now the Asian!
I was literally watching this video to see if it was good enough to share it with that joke
Better yet he gonna upload that car😮
Was just about to say a 3cyl would tick so many boxes and a turbo could extract a lot from an ice and then i realised i am every manufacturer in 2024.
Take a VR6 crankshaft and build a Pete Aardema block to fit a Big Block Chevy aluminum head . Chop one cylinder off the head . 4.6" bore x 3.78" stroke for 3 liters . Run dummy rods like the ducati supermono . Slant the block 45° towards the drivers side and offset the cockpit to allow a single door and single seat .
I think it would be easiest to buy in older patent expired clone engines and modify them to suit, I'm building a kit car at the moment and finding a suitable cheap crate engine is a very hard task
twincharged 2 stroke diesel?
@@udlrfbak 2-stroke uniflow
I'd go with hybrid electric have the internal combustion engine running at its most efficient RPM driving an alternator with an electric motor to actually drive the vehicle. That way you wouldn't have any range anxiety on charging that you could still use it as full electric for short distances.
The engineering has never been the problem, it's getting the government to allow such a thing on the road.
Shhh, let them jump straight into the engineering without considering those pesky legality aspects.
Safety standards? Bah! Ain't nobody got time for that!
It's not like the Tesla Roadster is open source now.. oh wait...
I thought 3 wheeled vehicles were the way to skirt some regs
@@mattgraham4340 Depends on where you are. Some places have a separate classification for 3 wheeled vehicles with their own rules which are sometimes self-contradictory, or highly restrictive.
I have a catless rx8 13b rotory fk emissions 😆
@@luckyshark32 oh yeah they do. Some states still consider three wheel cars as motorcycles. That means you're forced to wear a helmet the entire time you operate it.
Take a note from a somewhat famous rocket company: Use as many off-the-shelf parts as possible. Look at the most popular and largest production number cars available and use components from them for suspension, brakes, steering...etc. Keep this as simple as possible.
If the goals were purely commercial, you're absolutely right. One of the good things that will come of this project is the education that both the viewers and myself will gain as we learn how to design and manufacture parts, so it's a worthwhile trade to create most of this from scratch.
@@StandRacing You have it backwards. Commercialized thinking is making unique parts you can patent and protect, or limit availability. Making one-off parts or limiting creation to fabrication skills greatly reduces the likelihood of the project crossing the finish line. Start with a 1.0 anyone with basic wrenching skills can build. Then move forward with your ultra custom 2.0. This is very 101 of any project. Open source is using the best, cheapest, most available parts so anyone can assemble the end goal.
You're creating an open-source car anyone can build for $10k or less. That's junkyard or parts counter sourcing, an easily or low cost to fabricate frame, low skill, low tool overhead for the average garage builder.... think Caterham 7 kit car or the low-buck-Lotus project.
i also expected most of the drivetrain, suspension and such to be taken from 1 or multiple existing cars with good availability around the globe. the frame being custom is complicated enough for a lot of learning to happen.
@@StandRacing if it's educational, it will remain just that. But you were talking about the affordable and available car.
@@StandRacingnah, off the shelf parts make way more sense, go look at Edison motors and their design philosophy.
-Talks about a car that doesn't break
-Brings up a rotary engine
same thoughts 😅
The irony 😂
It's possible. The Rotary just needs better material science. The hybrid stuff is really interesting. Definitely a solution to the apex seal problem somewhere in there.
He lost me at that point also. No to rotary.
@@desertblbuesman its what he had... someone donate an engine already lol
Make sure you can build/design an OSAKI w/ a conventional drivetrain before getting fancy with hybrid. We all want this to succeed.
Consider contacting Casey Putsch, he runs a non-profit that teaches students engineering called Genius Garage, but more relevantly to your project, has built a high-efficiency car called the Omega car made from recyclable materials that he claim can approach 100 mpg on a Volkswagen diesel powerplant. I think at the very least, even a short chat with him can provide a good amount of knowledge for your project.
Good recommendation 👍
@@StandRacing cheap to buy isnt as good as cheap to own and long lasting. aptera motors collab, they wanted to make diesel hybrid (they ddi before) but now do electric only for selling and brand reputation. driver enthusiast mode can be quicker accelerating assuming driver uses it right, non enthusiast mode makes car have enough torque as needed but not as much speed, so it enforces efficient driving (roughly) compares to careless driving. this maybe not needed if drivetrain limits are already slow. cars are not what what they should be, dont waste money on mediocre , make them stop fooling around if they are gonna get your money.
driving efficiently(low emissions, high miles per gallon , car longveity and low maintenance sort of mixed into it, ) is like endurance racing , avoiding need for pitstops etc, needing to get places on time but doing so efficiently (or whatever speed you want , if you dont care as much about efficiency). driving efficiently is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal efficiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. smooth acceleration is part of putting less weight on tires at a moment because:
consider tire wear dust emissions and how much it cost to replace tires (most people are becoming increasingly even poorer than they already are and you can invest money into bigger money)like those "xenoestrogen endocrine disputing forever chemicals micro plastics" etc. apply less weight on tires and you'll allow more of that weight handling ability to be used for having more grip for endurance-race-pitstop-avoiding momentum preservation driving fun in the name of efficiency. being able to feel how close car is to its grip limit is good for this goal, similar to the lotus-car-enjoyers ideal.
this type of driving fun is most safe because its nto as fast as possible but does make you rather aware of driving environment instead of being focused mostly on music/radio/daydreaming/texting, etc
youtubes think flight, julian edgar,etc have videos on improving aerodynamic efficiency of his car.can add anti sway bar , better suspension etc "handling mods" for more momentum around turns, but some of it can make the ride bumpier, louder, etc.
hybrid cars are arguably better than electric car because they lower use of combustion and battery mass and all materials overall without adding so much weight. weight worsens road wear damage (repairs cost emissions , money etc) , worsens crash safety for all (except few rich people who can afford super safe cars in the small chance that they are involved in crash and value their lives and have lives we can value). this is why aptera motors originally made diesel hybrid, but now sells electric cars to max profits and reputation as a "environmentally friendly brand."
because batteries are not fully recyclable and combustion fuel is based on anaerobic bacteria that regenerates , which is why oil rigs go back to getting oil after abandoning the almost empty oil well years later. this is why arguably only combustion is proper, in rear mid engine weight distribution , rear wheel drive , with limited slip differential for minimal tire wear even in normal driver driving , for preserving momentum around turns more without too much slowing down by lateral (left /rights) g forces tires.
2-3 trips in compact 4 seater for the once in a year taking a minivan full of kids to doctors , is better than minivan all the time just for that rare scenario. yearly family road trip the all those kids can be done with rented van. in fact for most us a 2 seater is enough because theyll be losers with no friends they trust or care about, no kids carefully selected for good genes, no purpose besides not dieng, and money to overpay for low quality social status and desensitizing overdosing on minor temporary novelty, while being a waste of resources and maybe making life worse overall for others.
can you prove human caused co2 causes climate change or that its not just the usual climate change malkovich cycles similar to that of known ice ages? check incentives behind claims and who owns the industries of climate change alarmism and oil industry(same guys). environmentalists anti nuclear energy (the only reliable clean energy) , and crash safety laws, CAFE law, makes ironically named "suv" cars and electric cars more easily profitable than the cars thatd actually help. examples: they require less emissions per length width of car but allow larger height. crash safety laws increase arms race for safer cars making people in fewer and fewer cars safer at the cost of most others crash safety and everything else.
@@kalmmonke5037tldr
@@StandRacinghey, for making the engine more efficient you could possibly have a valved exhaust that it switches to with a smaller diameter
I also thought of Casey. Seems like these two could work together on this.
I still can't believe you wanted to make a cheap car, and chose a ROTARY of all things. Absolutely amazing, you mad lad
yeah, it should be practical
Tbf, some enthusiasts are doing a lot of work to improve on the classic mazda rotary design, but i dont think the 100% cnc aluminum rotors are very cheap lmao.
If it was me, i would look into Robot Cantina and his project involving a car powered by a Predator 670cc V-twin engine.
Personally I still hope he succeeds. As a fan of the rotary and the cars that use them, I'd really love to see a successful project run on rotary power. One day I'd love to own an FC RX7 that I only drive like once a year cause of the CO2.
@@justcallmenoah5743 Oh, when I have my FC running I'm gonna drive it all the time. Even if it wasn't already exempt from emissions for being older than 1996, I live in a county that doesn't do emissions. And for carbon footprint, I want to eventually run E85 anyway, which is better for the environment
Oh, TH-cam algorithm. What a cruel mistress. People with skills and aspirations like you are a rare sight. I will be looking forward to how this project goes. I wish you good luck because you will need it.
I would also like to share a tad bit of advice from a fellow hobbyist. In my personal experience, having projects for your projects is very risky. Complexity and tackling more than you can handle is a hallmark of would-be products.
I will remain to hold out hope you will not be discouraged in your efforts. Should you put in the work, people will come.
Thank you! My angle is, I have more projects in my head than I can ever tackle in one lifetime. So, if I share all of them with the public maybe someone will like an idea, and then I can help them develop it instead of them helping me.
@@StandRacingthat's kind of beautiful man
Free/Libre and Open Source is by far the best approach for a lot of things. Many people think to make profit it must be proprietary but that's just not true for ideas, standards, software that can be infinitely used/shared
Open Source works best when using parts that are of the shelf and available. Something like a flexible membrane might be good idea but it is complicated to manufacture it, which leads to hire costs (not considering development). Also it might have reliability problems if there are moving parts that are untested. I like the idea of your project, keep working !
An open source car would be a beast. Engineers from all over contributing their knowledge towards a same goal. Problems being addressed instead of cheaply bandaged. Access to software AND repair, open source diagnostic platforms...I WANT THIS!!! NO NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO EXIST!!!
If you haven't already done so, check out what Edison Motors in Canada is doing. In particular, they way they are trying to use common, off the shelf parts - their figuring is that folks have already done engineering on those parts and they have decades of a proven track record, so why spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel?
You may also find Robot Cantina's work in using small engines and off the shelf parts instructive.
Looking forward to what you come up with!
I second the Robot Cantina suggestion
It also means that if you need to fix your vehicle, you can without manufacturing an entire part.
As for rotary inefficiency, I think it's worth looking into the addition of a low pressure rotor - essentially a rotor that is powered by the still burning and expanding exhaust gasses of one or two other rotors. There have been regular engines designed with low pressure cylinders to scavenge power from exhaust gasses, and steam engines also made use of them, but I think rotary engines could also benefit greatly from them.
Like a 5 cycle combustion engine or a 6 cycle.
@@guy_autordie No, more like a turbocompound engine but using a positive pump instead of a turbine. Which leads back to: Turbocompounding. In concept it's simple, you just take a turbocharger's exhaust section and instead of compressing air with that recovered exhaust power, you just gear it to the crankshaft to help it along. In practice it's a lot more complex than that, but it's the easiest way to drag that efficiency kicking and screaming into the forefront.
So kinda like how some steam locomotive would recycle exhaust steam in a booster engine?
@@GTSW1FT
Extra stages. Exhaust from one powered the next.
Light weight material, robust enough for the other stages, will have to be proven.
An open-source mix of Chevy Volt, Edison's Topsy, and an Aptera would be my pick. Stick with the KISS principle, keep the electronics away from heat, favor simplicity over complexity, but keep efficiency and cost as the top priorities.
All-electric range of a Volt (30-50 miles), would cover most people's commuting needs. Being able to charge at home and/or at work (for those with those options) means rarely stopping for fuel. But if your local electric costs are high and liquid fuel is cheap, then you can opt to fill up with fuel more often, rather than charge at home. Let the price dictate which energy source you use.
ICE to electric range extender, ala Edison Motors. Skip the complex clutch/gearbox setup of the Volt, just use a simplistic, durable, easy-to-maintain engine. Engine drives a generator that recharges the battery pack, and/or powers the electric motor(s) at the same time. Diesel or gas, but something with large production numbers and a good reliability record (Toyota, Honda, Kawasaki, etc.). Timing chain instead of a belt, no need for VVT, since it'll mostly rev to max torque RPM and hold there to charge the battery. Hell, maybe even an old air/oil cooled inline-4 from a KZ1000 or GS1000. For air conditioning the cabin, go the electric compressor route.
Aerodynamics of the Aptera, though I will admit I like your tandem seating over the SxS arrangement of Aptera. Something closer to the ElectraMeccanica Solo, but perhaps with four wheels rather than three.
Buy a Walmart gas powered generator to mount in the trunk and voila… short range electric car becomes long range hybrid.🎉
A design that incorporates much of the Citroen 2CV's design has much of what you're looking for. Front engine, inboard brakes, cheap flexible. The suspension system is legendary for a comfortable ride. The body roll might need to be addressed, but it never stopped Citroen from selling millions. Excited to see how you proceed.
The body roll of the 2CV was a feature, not a bug.
Agreed. I only mention it because it's unnerving to some. Isolating the passengers from the lateral g's (maybe with the passenger compartment counter rolling) would be a possibility. Yet you or others could decide if necessary or helpful. I just wanted to point out the behavior so it can be considered and disregarded.
Add a feature like a tilting-trike that isolates the passengers from the chassis
I just added a comment along these same lines. The 2cv's biggest fly-in-the-ointment is rust. However if you could mate fiberglass(or better yet, carbon fiber) body panels to a galvanized or ceramic coated chassis you would have a world beater.
Man I’ve been kicking around the idea of an open source commuter car around in my mind for years. I’ll be following these projects for sure.
are you aware of any other projects like this?
You know what? Not even made that I keep having ideas and then a few years later I'm seeing someone bringing it up on TH-cam. Been wanting a fully electric drive-train hybrid, the I see Edison do a diesel electric truck. Been pissed at the way the car industry is going and wanting to build an open-source car for quite a while, and here is your video on the topic. This is awesome. Definitely want to follow this journey.
yea series hybrid is the best configuration for sure
I've been searching ages for a open source car, FINALLY
I can't imagine a situation where this kind of car would be cheaper or easier for someone to own than a used car like a civic or corolla, let alone being nearly as comfortable for daily driving. There are already "open-source" cars like the Locost out there, built to be the cheapest enthusiast cars possible, but they tend to not even have doors or a roof, sometimes not even windshields. They're also always based off of donor vehicles, so you have to scrap a running vehicle or assemble a large list of new or used components to build the car, which probably costs more than a used car. The effort of building a whole chassis and bodywork makes sense when it just needs to be lightweight and fast. If you want a cheap daily driver, it's almost definitely going to be way worse than any manufactured car... because thats what pretty much 90% of cars are designed to be. Any time or effort put into making the car will be far greater than what's required to get a used car in better running condition.
That being said, seems like a pretty cool project, and I can see why a tandem seat car would be the best way to do it. Part of what makes the Locost cars easy to make is that they have small bodies, with either flat panels or single-curve panels for parts like the hood that keep things simple.
You'd really have to throw any complexity out the window to make it worthwhile though, like having a very simple chassis with maybe two or four main longitudinal tubes and a rectangular floor pan, and a sort of half-cylinder lexan canopy with a flat safety-glass front windshield. Possibly a single swing-arm style rear wheel to eliminate the differential/axles/uprights, or take an engine + transmission + differential + subframe + suspension assembly from a FWD economy car and re-use all those components. Definitely no special experimental developments for the drivetrain, and definitely no hybrid system (it's essentially doubling the number of powertrain components). You'd either have to find cheap, widely-available steering racks and columns that fit the budget and can point the column up the middle, or you'd have to design simple go-kart style steering with a minimal number of links, rods, and bushings to reduce the hardware cost. You'd probably benefit from either a solid-axle, swing-arm, or torsion-beam front suspension to reduce the complexity, and keep the outboard brakes and shocks/springs because you're not setting lap records in this thing (and you definitely don't want to throw extra axles in there).
To make it widely usable you'd have to either make it comply with a large number of home-built/kit-car regulations, or cheat by doing what you can to get it classified as a 3-wheeled motorcycle.
I'm not any kind of authority on this sort of thing... but I've been making my own racecar while trying to re-use as many existing, cheap components as possible, and the budget easily climbs up over $12k USD as the design progresses.
You're dead on. The only way a project like this works is if they throw any expectation of high performance or luxury features, and aerodynamics, out the window, You'd have to build a parts list around the most affordable components, and you would end up with a car that looks like a low poly digital model. It would be an updated version of the VW Safari, JEEP, mail truck, or a cheap version of the Tesla Cybertruck. The upshot side is that if you're making a daily driver for use in-town, the aerodynamics isn't an issue because the average speed achieved is well below the threshold where aerodynamics even has an effect on fuel economy. But I personally think it can be done. And I think the best starting place is probably to take a hard look at how the VW Type 1 (The beetle) was constructed. I'll freely admit that I'm biased toward those vehicles. But the 79 model beetle was manufactured in Brazil until 2000. And it's because they were dirt cheap to build. But ultimately they couldn't keep up with emissions or safety standards, and their wasn't enough room in the body to add the necessary equipment. The VW Safari (The Thing), was the same car, with a different body shell, and floor pans. But the body was overbuilt, too heavy, and had too high a roll center.
As for what you said about a hybrid electric power train - I think I dissagree. You're not really doubling the powertrain components. You're replacing a mechanically complex gear box with a larger battery, electric motors, solide state motor controllers, and a larger charging system. If you're willing to accept the suspension performance hit, you could mount outboard drive motors on stub shafts for the rear wheels, and lose all the axles and differential with the simple addition of a steering position sensor. You would just kill the power to one of the rear wheels when the chasis begins a turn. A hybrid electric drive train comes with the big advantage that the engine isn't physically coupled to the drive line. You can mount it anywhere, in any orientation, where it will actually fit. It also comes with the advantage that the required output of the motor should be a lot smaller, and you should be able to select an air cooled motor that will do the job, and eliminate the need for the radiator/hoses/coolant/ pump/ and reservoirs. Yes, an air cooled motor won't provide as long a service life, but the reduced mechanical complexity facilitates the rebuild process. And the reduced mechanical complexity greatly reduces both the initial and rebuild costs. With a hybrid electic powertrain, the motor is only connected to the chassis by wiring, fuel lines, motor mounts, and exhaust system support brackets. Certainly a lot easier than removing an engine that's also bolted to a transmission or transaxle. The hybrid electric powertrain can combine the starter and alternator into a single device. And it deletes the clutch/ torque converter, and bell housing, entirely.
That said, the real advantage of the hybrid electric power train, is that the motor only operates at three different RPMs, starting idle, charging idle, and off. With the engine running at such predictable RPMs, you can drop the entire EFI system in favor of old school side draft constant velocity carbuerators, which compensate for changes barometric pressure by design. As long as they were acutally tuned right, you would never have an emissions or performance problem. You also have the oportunity to drop the heavier overhead cam system, and go back to a self maintaining pushrod/hydraulic lifter/rocker arm valve train. With a motor designed to run at such predictable RPMs, valve float is never going to create any emission or performance issues because the motor doesn't frequently change RPMs. The motor of a hybrid electric shouldn't be designed to run at the bleeding edge of power to weight ratio across a wide range of RPMs. It should be designed entirely for fuel economy at the RPM required while charging. And it sheds weight and cost in some weird ways. Off the top of my head, you lose the engine flywheel, because the armature in the starting/ charging system can provide that interia, and there's no need for a starting ring gear. You lose mass from the engine accessory system, because you direct drive things like AC compressors and power steering pumps with their own motors. Those devices get relocated to eliminate the heavy flexible hoses. The weight savings from hoses/brackets/pulleys/ and excessively long mounting bolts ends up being greater than the mass of the electric motors and the new inflexible hard lines. You have to design a braking system that doesn't require a vaccuum operated booster. But it is differently a different system.
The greatest disadvantage of the hybrid electric drive train, is what it does to the climate control system of a car. You have to build in an all electric system for heat and air. Maybe that's bad? But, maybe it's good too? I can see where you could build a solution from peltier diodes that would be really compact, and eliminate the common plenum inside the dash of the car. Maybe from active coolers for desktop CPUs? I don't know, but that seems like an easier design challenge than shoehorning a complete driveline into a car body. And the hybrid electric powerplant seems a lot more friendly for open source design because of it's modular nature.
Electric motors also like to run at higher RPM than engines quite often. Your choice of rotary engine is nice because of the higher RPM so that's less of an issue. But if it's on the same crank then you're going to have to spin the engine when you use the motor and that's going to mean you can't run in EV only mode which is nice for some zero emission zones in city centres. Also more efficient and less polluting.
The Honda Insight is an example of a car with this set up. Many owners modded them to allow for an EV only mode and for plug in charge capability.
It's probably smart to just factor that in from the beginning: allow the gas engine and electric motor to each independently power the car, and allow it to be charged from a plug.
to fix that he can prob just add a starter generator, an electric turbo or two, an electric motor in the transmission, and an electric motor in the rear, that way it can at least run on an ev mode, and can still have the plug, while still utilizing his concept of an electric motor in a rotary
Toyota already solved this problem by developing the eCVT hybrid transmission. One motor for power/regen, the other for controlling the ratio, all connected by a single planetary gearset. No clutches, belts, torque converters, etc. Efficient and direct due to the mechanical connection, and reliable and low maintenance because there is only gears. A gas turbine engine would be optimal combined with an eCVT as the eCVT could eliminate the turbine's greatest weakness: part-load efficiency. By using the battery as a buffer, the gas turbine would only need to be sized to provide cruising power, maybe about 40hp. Excess power and regenerative braking would charge the battery, and acceleration would discharge it. While gas turbines are initially expensive, they are extremely reliable and low maintenance. The efficiency of gas turbines is less than that of a reciprocating engine, and is similar to that of a rotary engine, but the longevity of gas turbines greatly exceed either. With modern electronic controls, turbines could be made that meet emission requirements.
I am an Electrical Engineer in South Carolina, Lets build an OSAKI truck after this....
For real would love to help out if I can.
The world needs this.
if this car is light-weight then a small air-cooled motorcycle engine might be the way to go! those things are crazy simple and efficient!
and imagine making a hybrid with it too! i imagine it could reach insane efficiency levels
u want efficieny? hear me out, diesel v twin with a turbo, hooked up to an electric motor making 50-75 hp or so, hooked up in parallel. should be able to go 500+ miles or more on a single tank and charge, with 100+MPG figures, don't quote me on those numbers I'm just pulling those out of thin air lmao
I really like the idea of air cooling
@@fadedsoul23 cool, but i was thinking my solution because its still very efficient (though your solution may be even more so) but mine is incredibly simple (no turbo, fuel injection, nothing)
@@StandRacing what i always like to say, is that the simpler it is, the better
@@firewalldaprotogen some of those small diesel engines actually come NA, like those diesel single cylinders and I believe some two and maybe three cylinders. So it could be made simpler like ur idea, just diesel. Might not be as efficient as the turbo version but the turbo could be an option or something if you want the better fuel economy
What a coincidence! Late last year friends and I working on the rotary swapped BRZ were discussing the potential of a hybrid rotary project where you basically stack an electric motor right behind the rotary, since they both like to spin like weee. It would be pretty light weight, space efficient, and of course sporty and raucous if you want it to be. We had a lot of cool ideas to go along with that and also discussed using a single rotor instead of two rotors or using the new rotary from the Mazda MX-30. Lots of fun ideas in here, though I think bringing any one idea to reality is a very long process. Excited to see what you get up to!
That's really cool! Thanks man. From a pure functionality standpoint, it's easier AND more efficient to just put an existing electric motor outside the hot engine housing. But, since this car is so small, any time spent experimenting with space saving tech is time well spent IMO.
Efficient cars rarely use their brakes, which makes brake cooling unnecessary, and disc brakes might get pitted before they wear out. Some cars are going back to drum brakes because they have less drag, less particulates, and less maintenance/last longer.
There's large efficiency benefit in regenerative braking, as you effectively convert your chemical energy in the fuel/battery into kinetic energy in the motion of the vehicle, lose a chunk of that due to rolling resistance and drag, then the rest you either waste as heat in the brakes producing particulate pollution, or use regen braking to recover as much as possible, allowing you to go further. Ideally you wouldn't even use regen much, as you instead coast down to a stop.
for that, id use an user interface that encourages doing that. maybe a little economy widget showing how efficient you're being. gameyfying it a little.
you are not a mechanic. Drum breaks are a major pain. Takes lots longer to inspect and repair. manufactures keep going back and forth with them trying to reduce cost to build while still getting through government requirements.
@@lostvisitor You're apparently not an EV owner? This feels a lot like a doctor, psychologist, and oncologist, all giving their perspective on why you have a headache. They all lean to their experience.
I'm guessing your experience with drum brakes is likely predominantly on ICE vehicles, right? Where they get used a lot and need inspecting/maintaining.
EV's should rarely use the friction brakes, so they should wear slower and last longer. Meaning that they need less maintenance. They're basically there as a back up/insurance, and for parking.
EV OEMs get regular complaints about having to frequently replace unworn but pitted disc brake rotors. I'm all ears to a better solution if you've got one. OEMs are also starting to receive pressure to reduce particulate emissions, which drum brakes do vs disc brakes.
There's research into completely deleting the friction brakes on EV's going on. As far as I'm aware it's not there yet due to safety concerns, edge cases, and capacity issues.
@@Leo99929 It is obvious you are not a mechanic. Just because some thing wears out slower does not mean they should be checked less often, especially some thing as important as breaks. EVs use breaks faster than ice because they weigh more. The pitted rotors is do more to the vehicle sitting for long periods or just bad material. Hybrids and EVs both have very complex breaking systems with very expensive components. 1000$ break boost for a prius with 30% battery life is not worth it.
As for wear. disks and drums wear about the same. The difference is more about material. A rotor system can be much lighter.
No I am able to think for my self and will never own an EV. The carbon foot print is substantially larger on an ev and they wear tires faster and much more likely to leave you stranded. The materials are stolen out of Africa through slave child labor. There is no way you will keep one as a daily driver for more than 20 years. The biggest cost to the environment of any thing is its production then what to do with it after. EV loses these points.
If the world really CARED they would do a few very simple things with laws.
1. set speed limits to 50mph. This would make EVs feasible.
2. stop all non emergency air travel.
3. stop letting people drive their 400 square foot home around the country.
4. stop all off road vehicles.
5. stop the construction of over sized houses.
Each person could do the following.
1. live near where you work and walk.
2. live in a house that fit your actual needs. No one needs a 200 sf bed room.
3. get rid of that ff cell phone. Life was nicer with out them.
4. etc.....
FWD or at least front wheel regen is important since that is where 80 or so percent of the braking is usually done. Exceptions can be made for very light vehicles (many rail buggies only have rear brakes).
Save weight on the suspension...
instead of inboard springs, which require bigger control arms, ditch them both by combining them both. Use leaf springs as control arms.
I was thinking he could maybe figure out how to use GM torsion bars. Those early 2000s GM trucks are literally a dime a dozen in the US, the torsion bars themselves can be difficult to come by, but the other suspension components are available same or next day and reasonably priced at most parts stores. They also tend to ride and handle better than leaf springs.
@@lsswappedcessna better than leaf packs, due to the friction between the leaves rubbing, but probly not better, or more compact, than mono-leaf designs.
The C7 corvette still uses a transverse frp mono-leaf, front and rear. The leaf is linked to the LCA, but I was picturing the spring acting as the LCA, to further reduce the weight.
Off the cuff, this seems like a promising venture. The torsion bar is a great idea too.
@@StandRacing Regarding the leaf springs; you could take a look of the 'swing spring' rear suspension of the late Triumph Spitfire 1500. It uses a transverse leafspring as the upper control arm and the driveshafts as the lower control arms. All parts are still available new
Or torsion bars
I'm so hyped for this. I put V8's on a pedestal and refuse to take them off. However, I completely agree that hybrids are the future.
Probably the first time I liked, commented and subscribed on the first video I see from a channel.
Thanks! You da man!
Had this idea for a pickup truck
The frame and body are pretty much the only things that need to be fabricated, since everything else would just be off the shelf existing aftermarket parts.
Industry standardization is basically "open source" already. A Ford 9" rear axle? Dozens of manufacturers make that already for example
I'd go 8.8 or 7.5 ford rear .
Why can't some one just take a car/truck design from the 90's and reproduce it with modern components?
i've been looking for open source vehicle videos for ever. thank you.
Weirdly, the whole tear drop thing is a bit of a myth. Water doesn't fall in that shape for one thing, but also the most efficient shape is a Sears-Haack body, which is basically a fat athletic javelin shape... or a super pointy dirigible? That assumes no ground near it though. I think Chopping the bottom off this makes it most efficient for something moving close to the ground? Look at land speed record cars. They're as much about lowering drag as they are about increasing power. The ones with jet or rocket engines won't help though, because they forgo the thin tapering tail because they can fill that space with a jet of air. That's most of the reason the jet/rocket ones have generally pointier noses and flatter tails, but the ones with wheel driven power are rounder noses with pointier tails.
The tail matters WAY more than the front. aim for no more than 14° converging angle or the flow will completely detach. Ideally Less than 6°. You can get away with more on the top and sides than the bottom because the bottom is "sucking" against the road.
Then chop off the tail square when you run out of length. Then have a box cavity to promote flow detachment like on some trucks. These could pop out when you start moving like on the Mercedes IAA.
Sears-Haack bodies are good for Mach 1,5 to 3
That seems like a cool project, I'm glad YT recommended it to me - looking forward to future videos :)
I'm totally here to support the project. I find open source very useful and appreciating and a good way to connect with talented people.
I was just discussing an open source car with a friend today 😊. This is the future. Best of luck and looking forward to seeing what we the people can do for our benefit. Needless to say I'm now subscribed ❤
In third-world countries, they can weld 10 seats on a moped and drive their whole family. Its cheap, its efficient, and parts are readily available. The problem isn't engineering. it's government regulation.
I encourage your enthusiasm, it is people like you thinking outside the box the brings about changes. I wish you the best of luck.
I can’t to wait to see the projects staying tuned
I've had the idea of an entirely open-source car for a few years, but I don't have the means to make it a reality. I wish you the best of luck and I hope this project becomes a great success!
Sounds amazing what you are presenting here, open source in automotive design/engineering is something I had on my mind as well, very excited for what is coming out of this.
The part where you ask an insurance company to provide coverage, when you built it, is going to be the challenge, and going to the DMV / SOS without a VIN , to get registered is going to be tough.
Some states have "build your own car" laws that should help with that. North Carolina is pretty good about this, but they don't like to register China sourced vehicles/bikes (Hawk 250s are annoying to register here).
Love the concept - subscribed and will follow with excitement!
Bro this is amazing, I was thinking about an open source series of engines that were designed around some common, off the shelf parts. Just do sets of plans and people could organize their own factory runs. There are so many facets to this, i can't even explain how stoked I am
You had me at "Longitudinally Phased Electric Motor for Rear Wheel Drive Hybrid Retrofits". (And the rotary stuff). Subscribed and shared to everyone I know!
Great idea..... Much like a few projects I've been developing for and building for many years... :)
I'm looking forward to seeing your version! :)
I had inboard brakes on my '84 Alfa Romeo GTV6. Definitely approve. It also had torsion bar front suspension and s DeDion rear suspension set up. Great handling, highly communicative.
I’ve seen that hole in the North American market for about a year now and you described the exact parameters of the idea perfectly. The only thing I’d say is you’re drastically over complicating the drivetrain and engineering of this project. My solution for this issue would be to bring back something that looks like a 1990 Honda civic hatchback with the same basic (but reliable) 4 cylinder engine and transmission setup. A simple EV alternative could easily be offered on that chassis as well. This vehicle would have the same features as what would have been offered in the 90’s, meaning no screens or unessential electronics. It would use extremely straight forward and very simple mechanical parts that literally anybody could take apart and work on. I think the cheapest option would be to utilize parts that have already been engineered separately to reduce costs. The total cost I’ve been aiming for would 10,000$ maximum. I’ll be following this project closely I’m very interested! Keep it up
This is really cool, keep us updated!
Like and sub’d. I wish you well in your project, I cannot wait to see it progress!
This is excellent, a huge gift to humanity if you accomplish this goal and build a good open source vehicle... do a truck next!
What a find! Im subscribing for the ride
Cheers!
I agree about the importance of using off the shelf parts. You can always experiment with manufacturing/designing more parts from scratch over time, but I don't think this kind of project can be sucessful unless youre willing to use off the shelf components to at least get the project off the ground, even if thats not as fun or exciting
I think off the shelf components are especially important because open source projects live or die by drawing a community of contributors, and off the shelf parts makes thats actually possible. I think even an extremely intelligent individual will fail in building a successful car *by themselves* but if you get other people working on it with you, thats how open source projects become viable alternatives to proprietary counterparts. Ambitious open source projects don't succeed without community and collaboration
Super interesting ideas, I'm looking forward to seeing your experiments
Am subbed and fallowing this. It's a great idea
Lol, had simillar idea while back, open-source, modular, payment by contribution, but if you really want the car to last you have to teach people how to care for it, the best way is to let people to build it themselves, but i am still stuck at uni, so... ...all the power to you! keep up the good work! :D
I like your idea on variable dyno load on the engine over a revolution. Interesting concept!
Super interesting video. A tip for future videos of the project is to show clips of the key features so that people can see that there's already experimentation going, especially at the beginning as a sort of "this is what we're gonna be talking about".
When you showed the 12A i was like "yo he has props?". Same with the videos you link throughout the vid of the experiments
@StandRacing Hey man! I'm super stoked by your idea! I've been saying it for years that hybrids (specifically Diesel Hybrids) are the future of cars! Im planning on going to school for an electrical course and hearing you talk about this concept makes me want to work on it. I've also been following Edison Motors for years and even reached out to them about learning to work on their conversion kits for trucks. If there is a way to downsize their working concept and mate it to your own, it would be a phenomenal leap forward to making this project a reality!
If the whole point of it is to be cheap: why a rotary? And why try to integrate an electric motor directly into it? Wouldn't slowing it down and speeding it back up in different parts of the cycle cause massive vibrations? Wouldn't it be better to just have the electric motor between the rotary and the clutch? Or even have it on the front wheels, for both better regeneration under braking, and AWD.
If the point is just fuel economy, i don't think it gets any better than having a small (sub 1.0L) diesel just as a range extender (the highest level of hybrid, being almost fully electric). It solves the problem of full EVs of having massive bateries, and having to fast-charge them (increasing wear). And i think it's as good as a personal car can get as an "A-to-B" machine (but it still has the inherent inneficiency and problems of a car).
If it's meant mostly as a cheap, but also efficient "A-to-B" car for everyone, making it a hybrid just increases costs. A turbo diesel connected to the wheels would be a good option, and it should probably be FWD too.
If it's not intended as an average person's car, and it's mostly for car guys, i think that keeping it a gasoline engine connected to the rear wheels is the correct choice. Hybrid could be debatable, both because of price and because some people don't like it (i personally don't have anything against it); and a rotary could be kinda expensive (even if they are reliable when correctly tuned, just getting one is expensive). I think something more like a ~1.6L i4 would be ideal, specially if it's as light as it seems to be (and it would still be very fuel efficient because of the weight and aero).
It’s open source. You’re able to build the car to what you desire. The company’s producing it won’t give you all the options, but there will be other people building the car who will. You want a small diesel? install it. You want hybrid? Install it? You want to throw in a built turbo k-series? Go for it. I’m sure there will be available files for the different possible drivetrains since it is open source.
@@gavinhicks7621so what's the project? the plans for the car?
this gives me the same vibe as the deltawing racecar tbh. badass and just experimental in nature but near limitless potential to be adopted by all. I might give building this a go now and take it to a track day for the fun factor
I love the idea of modular open source vehicles. Being able to have many manufacturers contributing to a collective design of interchangeable and customizable parts could be amazing. One of the best parts of open source is the ability to bootstrap by looking at prior work in the field. Now that you have put out an initial baseline of your "clean sheet" ideas, maybe you could spend an episode looking at the other open source vehicles that are already out there (Woodpecker, OSSEV, OSCAR, etc) to see whether any of their work is applicable to your project?
Good luck with this, love the idea
Your right. If there were no safety systems todays cars would be a little bit cheaper. This is good alternatively. Appreciate the effort❤
Just found this video and thought it was funny that I myself had the random thought of what if there was an open-source car, and that thought came up around approximately right before this video was released. It didn't go anywhere on my end. But hopefully it gets far on your end.
The slowing down of the rotary is such a creative idea, I'm so curious how it'll pan out!
Also talking about hybrid engines you might be able to pull some ideas from the silent hawk motorcycle's power train, it uses a electric motor with a gas generator
Another simpler option to the flexible membrane is the variable intake runners used on the 787B or something like the CV carburetors you find on most motorcycles
Super exciting ideas!
Style is everything
This is literally a piper cub in car form. I like the idea. Could make for an interesting little car.
Mazda is already experimenting with slowing down the rotar at the perfect time to generate electricity. I think they have that patented. But the fact that you independently came up with the idea... you have my maximum respect!
I've been pondering this myself lately. A modular platform people can buy and configure.
The tandem car design is something I have also been thinking of for years, I would make it 3 rows, with the rows in the back being enough to sit 2 children side by side, or 1 (possibly overweight) adult comfortably
Great plan and layout, of course there are so many aspects to consider. Also a great overview/intro video. I have been thinking about one part or another of this kind of car for decades now. I could become very annoying in the comments.
Thank you, please do! 😂
Ahhh, a new Elio, but a "make your own", and with 4 wheels? Interesting, I'll watch out for you.
I've always been of the mind that if something CAN be made digital, it SHOULD be made digital, and available to all. Scan and upload, for humanity. 🙌
The elio was my first thought as well. I followed them for a couple years.
One solution, on problem:
- Adjust intake and exhaust using cone-shapped plugs in cone shaped pipes to adjust to desired diameter. This is how the engines on the SR71 Blackbird adjust to their current altitude needs.
- What's to stop someone from trying to make it even cheaper by using unsafe materials instead of the correct ones? I imagine the gov would then set up some sort of testing and fee for that like they do with emissions.
This will be fascinating!
You got great hair, congrats! subscribed.
I've been working on designs for cyberpunk-style EV and hybrid vehicles for a while. I think this will be a success, and I can't wait to see the final design and maybe try my hand at building a couple, maybe with some personal mods.
This is what i've been dreaming of.
Already gave thumbs up.
I was trying to do something like this before. I was essentially making a model T, since there is an abundance of aftermarket parts already, the frame is just welded square tube, and an OG one was like 100 parts.
I wanted to make one that could be made new without needing to be registered as a show car (thus could be a daily driver legally in my state). And call it the Model-U. Works for 'you' 'yours' or 'universal'
I like the idea.
I go into this on my channel a lot. The legacy car makers are pretty much done. When a tail light failure can cost you six grand, the auto industry is pretty much on it's ear. I have a tandem two seat car modeling on my channel.
3 wheels is mechanically simpler, lighter, and drags less. Love the idea of an open source car.
As far as varying the exhaust side, Yamaha developed their EXUP valve in the '80s and still use it today if I'm not mistaken. Not directly in the cylinder head of course, but the backpressure at low rpm does help response, and removing said backpressure is great at higher rpm. Variable intake runners exist on the Ford Coyote and most certainly others. Both concepts could definitely be paired, but I wouldn't want to be the guy tuning that engine 😅
I do love the idea of a open source vehicle. I really think that there could be quite a market around it. Especially with cars becoming smarter and smarter. Some of us might want dumber vehicles. Or a certain level of technological integration.
This reminds me of the Wintergarten Marble Machine X, something you might want to be inspired from that is having a discord/community to talk/compare etc
You might be able to have the exhaust mechanically "expand" and "contract" by having concentric tubes where the inner tube seals and unseals effectively opening up the diameter.
Like if the inner tube is two concentric layers with slots in them running lengthwise, you could rotate one of the layers so the slots are open or closed and see how that affects efficiency. Not sure if it would have the desired effect, but it may require less unique of a material sciences skillset to implement sucessfully and be viable as a long lasting part
Thank you Trevor Moore, very cool
Fr though, this looks awesome
Use an electrolysis system and you'll solve several of these challenges you mentioned:
1. Burning hydrogen gets you a cleaner and more fuel efficient burn on any engine.
2. That cleaner burn actually produces much, much cooler exhaust temperatures for your exhaust experiment (cool to the touch in most cases).
3. Burning hydrogen has been proven to increase horsepower without added engine stress (in fact it cleans the engine of carbon with continued use).
4. Added benefit of being a 3 way hybrid (gas, electric and hydrogen) without having to store hydrogen like the Hindenburg.
5. Systems are cheap and fully adjustable to what your needs will be. Also can be self contained within the car body/engine compartment.
6. Draws very little power (can use a car battery on a regular engine when being recharged by the alternator).
Here for the ride! ♥
Excited to see more of this
can't wait to show you what i'll be designing for the body.
Ditto!
1930s styled . VW torsion beam front end ( Bugatti replica style ) . Slant-4 half-LS engine . T5 5-speed . Narrowed and chopped mini-truck cab . 7.5 ford solid axle .
what a cool project, I'd love to see what I can do! I don't presently have access to a shop, but I'd love to do what I can with blender for now and CAD once the project reaches that stage!
If you are making external body panels from plastic you can do those golf ball indents to reduce drag.
Such a simple idea, should have been made ages ago, just looking at where 3d printed guns are now, we can tell this can go far!
But just a thought: it is my expererience that things take much longer and much more work than expected to be made tested and improved to a satisfactory level, so maybe focus on either the engine or the chassis first? Everytime someone says cheap and light i think put a motorcycle engine in it, there are a few kinks to fix especially with reverse but it is a known quantity that fits the bill (although i am sure it would still give SOME headache, as everything does), hell, if the rotary is working just put it in there and then add the electric system later, at least you know how the chassis works and behaves so theres only one thing to focus on. Not to diminish the idea of the hybrid rotary, allways thought it would be a great pairing of tech but never thought puting it between the rotors!
Hi! I LOVE this project idea! Just a note on your Synchronous Reluctance Motor using regen to slow down the rotary motor stroke: I think you will have to put magnets into the motor like Tesla does because the reluctance of spinning cavities doesn't create a magnetic field on its own. That said, if there's an electric motor design out there that can do regen without magnets in the rotor, I would reaaaally love to hear about it. Looking forward to the next videos! - Your air intake/exhaust restriction idea is fantastic btw.
Thank you! You'll be interested to know that a synchronous reluctance motor works just as efficiently as a generator as it does as a motor 🙂
You should seriously consider starting a discord server for this! Would be a great way for people to connect and do screen shares while they tinker with the files, not to mention be a place for people to dump ideas and stay connected.
I've been thinking about this myself and settled on putting electric motors in a small and mass produced 90's car, with a small battery but most of the power comes from a few small liquid piston rotary engines. I was also thinking about putting sterling engines in somehow since about 60% of the energy in ICE is wasted as heat, getting just 30% of that could allow for a longer range than any pure ev or gas vehicle of the same drag and mass, and regen breaking makes the mass less of an issue for efficiency.
I also thought about a Citroen 2cv as the base since they're super easy to work on and get/make parts for, and designed for 4 wheel drive already with the idea being a motor for each axle. You are more likely to find the 2 wheel drive version, but I presume it's relatively cheap to get the parts to convert one.
There exists a rubber compound that I know about that can take very high pressure and extreme high temperature. I was working for a company that made the seals for the multi stage rockets that NASA used to push the orbital lander into space temps range from like -70 to 1600c. If your membrane isn't very big the polymer could be a viable option. It was called MEK and it doesn't stand for methelethelkeotone either. It may well be on Dow, or DuPont, Zeon Chemical or maybe even a custom batch mixer's recipe formulary these days. The NASA program was a very long time ago and that little company I worked for doesn't even exist anymore. Good luck to you in your project.
Have you considered the Citroën 2CV? It could be an optimal platform for experimentation. Although it is 4-seat, 4-door car it lends itself to the concept quite well. Especially the rear mounted electrical assist engine. The Citroën Sahara did this but with an additional ICE. A simplified suspension, a robust gas/electric powertrain coupled with a fiberglass infused thermo plastic body could be the keys to the kingdom. This could be the scalable, long-lasting, do-anything vehicle we have been hoping for.
Drum brakes…
Cheaper, lighter, last the life of the vehicle and safer as they do not lock up like discs and therefore ABS not required.
Don’t dismiss them immediately, modern sealed ones means no brake dust and most of the cooling issues they used to have are dealt with.
Also drum brakes are a huge upgrade for electric driven cars because discs are always dragging where as drum shoes are sprung and do not drag.
And that’s not all… the electric does regen, for normal driving it can do 100% of your braking.