This shows definitely how much CPE Bach is an outstanding composer and how much his music has been totally forgotten by pianists. I noticed that a wave on interrest in his keyboard music started something around 15 years ago. This is really great. Thank you also SO MUCH for uploading the great Hamelin live!
listen to JC bach, not his incompetent brother who's only musical accomplishment was popularizing the fortepiano and writing a book on its performance practice.
sebthi Not really; there is virtually nothing of CPE Bach to be found in any of Mozart’s music. Regarding the Zauberflote overture, you might find the opening of Clementi’s piano sonata Op 24 No 2 of some interest if you are looking for ‘influences’...or even downright theft; the Clementi sonata was written about ten years before the Mozart overture.
What an amazing performance. I'm ashamed to say I've never listened to much CPE Bach, but the way he goes from the development into the recapitulation in the 1st and 3rd movements is something that the later Classicists should have taken as a lesson. So fresh and elegant.
This sonata is quoted in the famous book of Charles Rosen about the sonata forms as a good example of Sontata form. The allegro is as clear as a Haydn movement, while being less inventive. But it is a fully coherent and brillant piece. But the final cadence is at the reltive minor in order to manage a transition to the second movement, a sort of ornamented aria to which Hamelin added a short cadenza. The finale is as brillant as thre first movement. It is developed as a binary sonata form. All in all a very brillant sonata and a true masterwork.
I read all your comments. You cite frequently Charles Rosen and it is well for me. However, many of your opions look like informed ones but aren't. For example, when you say that this sonata is less inventive than Haydn. I would not dare say that without many qualifications first.
TO be more precise, Rosen's statement is the CPE's sense of coherence is shorter than Haydn's, where it becomes a piece of the overall architecture (Rosen, "Sonatas form")
Exactly, thats what Rosen says: structure but not inventivenness. The problem with Rosen’s book is that he was unable to judge Haydn’s music beyond structure (or acoustics in the case of piano trios). For thst reason I found the book boring and not very innovative.
It isn't actually a radical tactic. Its a form of humour that can be found in Haydn as well. Basically, the rest is to shock the audiences who expect the music to continue. Its like a musical 'joke'. Haydn has plenty of them.
Yu Hng Ng You are absolutely correct, though Haydn uses silence in more ways than just humour. The four and a half beats of silence across the 5th and 6th bar of the Symphony 39 in g minor for example, is intensely dramatic, mysterious, and ratchets up the tension at the start of the piece to a very high pitch - it has nothing to do with humour and everything to do with defying expectations. Try playing the opening of Symphony 39 on a keyboard, both with, and then without the one bar+ rest; without the silence, the music is good, with the silence it is genius. A similar silence occurs at bar 20 in the Finale of the b minor piano sonata Hob XVI:32 - another classic, non-humorous, pregnant pause. Perhaps the most familiar use of a whole bar of silence occurs in the slow movement of Symphony 101 (The Clock); Haydn prepares the listener for the striking and completely foreign switch of key to the submediant E flat by making us wait for four silent beats - pure dramatic theatre, he is not trying to make us laugh. As you correctly state, there are countless others - some indeed humorous - and it was something not unique to CPE Bach. It is probably worth noting too that Haydn sometimes does the exact opposite to unexpected pauses by writing the words ‘attacca subito’ meaning that the next section or movement is to begin immediately. Also, both CPE - quite often, and Haydn occasionally run movements seemlessly together. There is a lot more to Haydn than the ‘humour’ aspect which is highlighted sometimes rather more often than it needs to be and is in fact, better described in more cases than not as ‘playful ingenuity’.
Amazing! Are you a musicologist? How do you know all this information? I frequently see your replies and comments around the classical music community, specifically in the classical era.
I'm not hugely knowledgeable about classical music, but I think CPE may be my favourite Bach. Possibly this has more to do with the generational gap than anything else; on the whole I tend to prefer more modern music.
Yes, absolutely delightful! but as I couldn't find this on a CD and after listening to as many versions as I could find, I have acquired CPE Bach Sonatas and Rondos, Christopher Hinterhuber, Piano. 2004. Naxos - beautiful too !
People keep comparing this to Haydn, but I'd say the angry passion and the random mood swings actually makes it quite closer to Beethoven. Haydns normally pretty reserved in his compositions
Level 1-3 CPE is very much a one-off and difficult really to compare with anyone. Haydn is the closest of anyone to CPE: probably from 1766, he studied CPE very thoroughly, both his manual on keyboard playing - the ‘Versuch’ - and the associated sonatas which first appeared in Vienna in that year. In addition, he got his publishers to send him CPE’s latest works on a regular basis. CPE told Haydn that he was ‘…the *only* composer who understood his teachings properly and knew how to make use of them’; this is a massive statement. Beethoven was also still using exactly the same book and works in the early 19th century; we know this as his pupil Czerny wrote that Beethoven directed him to get copies and study them. However, Beethoven’s own sonatas are really: - of a very different age: - written in a very different style, - utilising a very different keyboard technique (though based on the theoretical background of CPE’s Versuch), - composed to be played on very different instruments, - intended for performance (often public, for which CPE’s were almost never intended), to a very different public. Basically, you’re right; there is little point in keep trying to compare CPE with anyone. CPE was an almost unique composer writing in a highly original and personal ‘empfindsamer Stil’; this individuality is clearly evident from listening to the first four bars of virtually any of his compositions.
I heard this played on clavichord, it was wonderful too. I don't know for which instrument this was originally written but it's one of my favorite pieces :)
Well it's probably as you say for clavicord , but officially for hapsicord, or in a very similar approach for fortepiano wich is at that time a new instrument used. Hope I answered your question.
CPE Bach was an amazing innovator. Without him, I believe Mozart and Beethoven would have been drastically different artists. I especially love his Fantasias-- no measure markings; more like a stream of consciousness, or an extremely interesting conversation between two brilliant people. I am a huge fan of Hamelin, and had this video suggested to me by TH-cam. I wasn't aware of Hamelin recording CPE Bach, but I am not the least bit surprised. I am used to him playing impossible avant garde works from Sorabji, Alkan, or Godowsky. In my opinion, CPE sets well in this list of innovators. Not to diminish Hayden, but CPE Bach was on a much higher plane.
Some interesting thoughts; as you clearly enjoy CPE, you might find the following helpful. CPE’s ‘Versuch’ - Essay on the True Art of Keyboard Playing - was the most important such manual of the 18th century; it is the basis of all modern keyboard playing. The Versuch was innovative, transformational, and widely and massively influential. Haydn studied the Versuch and the associated sonatas intently probably around 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna, he asked his publisher to send him works by CPE Bach for many years thereafter. Beethoven was still using the Versuch in the early 19th century. Mozart knew it as well, and was using CPE’s modern system of fingering for example, as was Haydn where you can see on the extant autograph score of the E flat piano sonata Hob. XVI:45, that the composer has added modern - ie CPE Bach-style - fingering to the repeated notes in bar 20 of the Finale. Haydn acknowledged only CPE as a mentor, and CPE told Haydn that he was the *only* composer who properly understood his teachings, and knew how to make use of them. CPE’s influence on Mozart is often massively over-stated - as you have done; Mozart’s music would have been barely a single note different had CPE never existed. Mozart, the most travelled of composers never bothered to go to Berlin or Hamburg to visit CPE; the two composers never met. Check the index of any edition of Mozart’s letters and count how many times CPE is mentioned. Ditto any Mozart biography. If that’s not enough, listen to any piece of your choice by CPE, then one by Mozart and you will be struck forcibly by the fact that they have absolutely nothing in common. Square all that with your ‘...would have been drastically different artists’ point. You are right that CPE wrote some fantastic works, particularly for the keyboard and including the fantasie you rightly mention, but also some of his concertos such as those for harpsichord Wq 43; the symphony Wq 177/178, or sets of symphonies Wq 182 and Wq 183. There are a number of very fine choral works as well. Many of these works by CPE would have been known to Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven; the trouble is that they are too highly original, quirky and idiosyncratic to be widely influential. No composer could ever be said to write like CPE Bach. You are right too that he was very innovative in many ways, it might have been better however not to have mentioned Haydn (sic) at the end, as that particular comment whilst as an opinion is fine, as a fact, is unsustainable - CPE is not ‘...on a much higher plane’ than Haydn and to suggest so is just silly. In short - Haydn (who understood CPE better than most) and CPE, inhabited very different worlds.
As an early keyboard player it's interesting to listen to how a modern pianist would understand and recite C.P.E. Bach or any eighteenth-century Sonata. Worlds apart! Could any pianist out there explain the approach? I suggest you listen to Lars Ulrik Mortensen's rendition of the same piece on harpsichord or to one on a clavichord or early piano.
Yes, they really take advantage of the piano's speed and technical abilities, but I feel that the historic message/tone of the music is easily lost in these expeditions.
@@ninjaassassin27 Think it has a lot to do with the piano being more monochromatic color wise with less sustain ability outside of the damper. So one plays faster with a greater sense of dynamic variation which the piano is very capable of. There's also the hot blooded romanticism which seeps it's way in character wise to make things more extreme.
Michael Nichols A thoughtful comment; just one point though - ‘romanticism’? CPE is writing in a very particular style called ‘empfindsamer Stil’ - often mixed up with some popular galant of the time - which is quintessentially Classical. It is very difficult to hear anything Romantic in this music as found in Schumann, Chopin or Liszt. What do you hear that is ‘hot blooded romanticism’?
@@elaineblackhurst1509 I really am referring to the overall approach Hamelin takes. Compared to "historically accurate" approaches, contrasts are very extreme, tempi mildly flexible, ect...It's not a comment on CPE Bach's writing, but on the approach to interpretation. I'm saying what Hamelin does isn't too far from what Horowitz/Pogorelich did/do with Mozart and Scarlatti and Bach respectively. Romantic aesthetics applied to earlier music for the benefit of satisfying modern ears and tastes.
@@MikeN275 Some interesting points. Could I suggest you search Dr Burney’s account of an evening spent with CPE and the description of his playing; I suspect it may blow your mind regarding ‘historically accurate’ recordings. I think you can have passionate, sensitive and moving music without it being labelled ‘Romantic’, and CPE in particular is a very difficult composer on whom you can easily stick labels. It is quite a common misunderstanding and simplification that music of the Classical period - Mozart and Haydn et al c.1750 - 1800 - must resemble a delicate porcelain figure, and that if there is anything more dramatic, or passionate, then it must be ‘Romantic’. CPE’s ‘Versuch’ is also a must-read in terms of understanding CPE; he is absolutely clear about the paramountcy of the performer touching the heart and moving the emotions - both performer and listener. I don’t actually disagree with anything you’ve written, I’m just searching for a different word to attach to CPE, his music - and the performance of it - other than Romantic.
Well done Sir Marc, very well done! There are pianists, and then there are the likes of Marc Hammelin, who has a skill set that cannot be learned; it is innate. Thank you Sir for sharing.
Joel Seda Well, yes and no. I gather this was composed or first published in 1765 (around then Haydn was composing the symphonies Breitkopf numbers 20-24, 30 and 31, his earliest string quartets, his first cello concerto, among other things... which are, I will agree, not fully mature Haydn, but are getting there :) )
Eric Schissel The universally accepted numbering of Haydn’s symphonies is that of Mandyczewski who in 1907 listed the 104 in the order we now know them; it is this numbering that was adopted unchanged in the Hoboken catalogue of the composer’s works which is universal listing of the composer’s every work. The whole point of a standardised numbering was to avoid the confusion of symphonies being numbered differently by publishers all over Europe, something that was widespread even in Haydn’s time, and since. In England, the publisher Forster even published 23 symphonies using letters of the alphabet rather than numbers; Symphony 88 for example was ‘Letter V’ and was widely known as such across the English speaking world. Breitkopf was just another of many such publishers; there is no such thing as ‘Breitkopf numbers’, though it was for this company’s complete edition that the Mandyczewski list was compiled originally. Haydn’s symphonies are now only ever referred to by their Hoboken I* numbers which as explained above, were adopted unchanged from the Mandyczewski numbers. * Hoboken grouped the works by category, then number: Hob. I:1-104 are the symphonies. Hob. XVI are the piano sonatas (so Hob. XVI: 20 is the piano sonata number 20 in c minor). Hob. XXI are the three oratorios. Et cetera.
Am I he only one who finds Hamelin's playing here very much like Gould? Some may find the almost staccato touch distracting, but I find it wonderful. So easy to hear the different musical lines.
vetlerradio It is perhaps better described as non-legato, rather than staccato which is not quite the same thing. More widely, regarding the ‘norm’ in CPE’s time, Beethoven heard Mozart play just once - though never met him - he later described Mozart’s playing as ‘choppy’ ie not legato. This suggests that non-legato was the ‘norm’ as performed by an outstanding fortepiano player at the time. Additionally, CPE’s influential and definitive manual on keyboard playing at the time - the Versuch - gives clear directions about correct articulation, fingering, and every other aspect of Classical keyboard playing. The Versuch was still being used by Beethoven into the next century, and was the basis of all subsequent modern keyboard-playing manuals.
I'd like to point this sonata must be much harder to play than it looks if Hamelin makes errors even I can hear. The fact it is in just 2 voices most of the time is deceiving.
I am getting completely sick of the rubbish comments that are all over TH-cam. This is NOT too fast. The tempi are wonderful ... any slower and the lovely pianistic effects would not work so well. Hamelin's control is superb, and there are far better thing to pay attention to in this music (one of CPE Bach's finest compositions) than listening out for the occasional wrong note.
bloodgrss Haydn studied CPE’s Versuch - manual on keyboard playing - and the associated sonatas probably around 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna; Beethoven was still using them as teaching material in the early 19th century. The links with Mozart are much less clear; there is negligible evidence of any CPE influence in Mozart’s works, and a quick check in the index of any Mozart biography or edition of his letters will find scarce reference to CPE. That said, the Versuch was important to every composer of the age, including Mozart; it is through this treatise that the only real link between CPE and Mozart can be found. Summary: 1. influence on Haydn - *yes* 2. influence on Beethoven - *some* 3. influence on 18th century keyboard playing in general - and beyond - due to his famous manual, the Versuch - *definitely* 4. influence on Mozart - apart from the Versuch - *usually much over-stated and generalised,* and almost always never specified. I am not aware of any specific evidence of Mozart admiring CPE’s sonatas. The only reference to CPE’s keyboard works of which I am aware is in his letters when he asked his father to track down some of CPE’s fugues. This was part of his general interest in studying counterpoint in the 1780’s.
rondo cap Haydn studied CPE’s Versuch, and sought out the associated keyboard works probably from about 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna; it was something he continued to do later in life whenever new CPE Bach works were published. CPE was one of only two composers to whom the highly original Haydn ever acknowledged a debt*, something he openly stated to his earliest biographers (Haydn’s relationship with Mozart after 1783 was entirely different). In return, CPE told Haydn that he was the only composer who properly understood his teachings and knew how to make use of them. In short; you make a perceptive comment. * The second figure is Nicola Porpora; the 20 year old Haydn acted as accompanist - and valet - to the crotchety old opera composer’s singing lessons in Vienna 1752 to 1753. It is clear that Haydn learned much from his time with Porpora, and not only just about singing and accompaniment. Haydn himself said that: ‘I had the good fortune to learn the true foundations of composition from the celebrated Porpora’. Perhaps Porpora helped Haydn with his counterpoint studies from Fux’s Gradus ad Parnassum ? Haydn also acknowledged that his Italian became very good working with Porpora, and late in life, whilst giving details to Griesinger for his forthcoming biography told him: ‘There was no want of ‘Asino’, [Ass = quadruped] ‘Coglione,’ [check this one out yourself - not polite] ‘Birbante’, [Rascal] and pokes in the ribs; but I put up with all of it because I profited greatly from Porpora in singing, in composition, and in the Italian language’.
I played the first two minutes of this piece at a recital. Is that a reasonable musical accomplishment? It took a good amount of time for me to learn the first two minutes. Even still, I have wanted to play Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata. I know it is more difficult, but to what degree is it greater in complication in comparison to the first two minutes of this piece? Ought I to simply practice the Pathetique and not worry about the challenge? Yes, I shall just do it!
Did the first movement end on an F# for real? Really odd for the Classical period. But a real good bridge to the second movement. Carl, you clever guy.
a number of his sonata movements do lead into the succeeding movements rather than full-stopping, yes. (I've mostly only seen those that were reprinted/edited by the Farrencs and then excerpted from that edition and reprinted in 2 volumes by Dover, though IMSLP has uploaded yet more still ...)
the score being printed in the video above may be from the Dover edition (and I wonder if some of Hamelin's mistakes are mistakes, and some aren't the result of his possibly?? using a better edition, e.g. the rather more scholarly CPE Bach complete currently in progress...) (that he makes mistakes, sometimes quite a few- I'm not denying- heard him once in Alkan's symphony live, at the end of a concert, thrilling and impassioned but full of slight missed notes here and there. Loved the performance anyway...)
바흐의 피아노소나타 A장조 2악장은 소위 감정과다 양식을 잘 드러낸다. 약박 기준의 선율 주기, 비대칭적 구조, 꾸밈음, 장식적 음계 등이 느린 템포와 어울리며 넘치는 감정을 표현한다. 아울러 단조와 장조를 오가는 전조방식도 감정의 분출적 표현에 일조한다. 꾸밈음이나 장식적 음형 또는 리듬의 대비 등으로 표현력을 강화한 것도 눈에 띈다.
Hamelin is a fantastic virtuoso. His rendering of this sonata is wonderful. However, I would like to better hear he motive of the left hand at the beginning of this sonata.which alternates with the right hand arpeggios.
@KarloFeder It may be easy to play for him, but he actually works really long and deep on his interpretations. He talks about this in his Legato-Documentary, in case you're interested.
'Very easy' to play in a modern grand. I´d would ask a harpsichordist how to play with such speed!. Not to mention trying to play in this way in a clavichord. Although anyway, I´m very grateful to Mr. Hamelin for his performance!. Happy 300th birthday CPE Bach!
I don't know about "very easy." CPE's music has its own challenges. The thin textures may look easy on paper or when you go through them slowly. However, his music requires absolute evenness and delicacy of touch in order to be effective, which is not at all easy in some his faster movements. I played this sonata as well as his d minor sonata in one of my piano juries in college and to play them correctly with perfect evenness and expression, I would say is not any easier than any Mozart sonata I've played. I've noticed every good piano composer has elements of their works that are easy as well as challenging. Every composer brings about different challenges in their music. And furthermore, this would have been played on a piano forte, not a harpsichord. But I digress, it was a fabulous performance indeed.
Lluís Bofarull Ros The harpsichord and clavichord have much lighter actions than a piano's. Thus it takes less effort to push a key down, making fast runs much easier. plus, key dip is much shallower, so it is easier to stretch the hand to tackle wide intervals.
Eddy McCoy A really thoughtful, perceptive and helpful comment; I find CPE’s music one of the most difficult of all composers to make that essential leap between playing the notes and playing the music.
Matteo Generani Not a single note of anything written by Mozart sounds remotely like anything written by CPE; it is impossible to mistake one for the other.
I'm a fan of C P E Bach, and have played this sonata a lot. I admire Hamelin's ability to play fast with almost no mistakes. However, he needs to slow down and savor the changing emotions of the piece. It's not supposed to be played so fast it's a blur.
I heard Hamelin in Edinburgh a few years ago in Beethoven's 4th and was dazzled! But here I agree with you. That is why I appreciate Furtwängler rather than Toscanini. Speed and brilliance never do justice to a piece of music.
@@SouthParkGermany100 Not if you read Allegro as a mood indication, rather than an anachronistic 19th century metronomic tempo indication as you appear to be doing. Search Allegro/a in an Italian dictionary* - then add assai; if you do this, you will understand that CPE was not necessarily instructing performers to play the piece as quickly as Hamelin does here. * Essere allegra in Italian = to be cheerful/lively.
I guess you are right, but I posted this one alongside an introduction video to Hamelin's upcoming set of Haydn Sonatas - "Haydnesque" was an apropos adjective. :)
Oh these comments that show that you have "The Ear" and recognize every mistake. I do not know if you are pianists. I am. Hamlin is a wonderful pianist. Do it like this and then talk about mistakes.
Well, if your only allowed to offer critique if your on the same level as the one evaluated then even professional critics wouldn't be able to give any. That said it is a common internet phenomenon that everyone is an expert and has to throw his opinion in whenever possible. So while I'm not really on board with your first sentiment, I do personally support the "I'm just here for the music" statement, which makes everything I just wrote an utter contradiction to my own dogma ;) Welcome to the internet!
yes, but this is my problem with critiques. often critiques are about mistakes.. and for me as a professional pianist playing a piece is more than no mistakes. If you listen to live concerts of pianists for example like Rubinstein, Horowitz and even Svjatoslav Richter there are always wrong notes, but does this disturb the music or the interpretation? I think it it nearly to pass an piano recital without some little mistakes. But mostly they are not so obvious for the audience.
Susi Schmidt I concur. Platformes like this one do however tend to bring out extreme points of view as people who just enjoy the music dont feel the need to comment. I'm neither professional musician nor music critic so I can't really comment on your opinion about this matter in general. If someone does however impose stricly mechanical interpretations as his ideal, he is probably not worth it to debate with.
Carl Philip Emanuel Bach. Son of Johann Sebastian Back. Wrote an essay “An essay on the True Art of playing keyboard instruments.” Inspired the likes of Mozart and Beethoven.
ferret mp4 There is no evidence at all that CPE Bach ‘inspired’ Mozart beyond one much misunderstood, alleged quotation: - the two composers never met; - you will find almost no references to CPE in the letters of Mozart*, and very few in any Mozart biography; CPE really was somewhat peripheral to Mozart’s music and development; - and most obviously, not a single note of either sounds remotely like the other. You are quite right about the Versuch; it was the most widely influential keyboard manual of the second half of the 18th century - it was still being used by Beethoven in the early 19th century. The Versuch was the starting point for all later such manuals. CPE was really only a major influence on the younger Haydn. Haydn studied the Versuch and all CPE’s published sonatas avidly and clearly acknowledged his debt to him. Haydn told his earliest biographers Greisinger and Dies, that CPE had told him that he was the only composer who understood his (CPE’s) teachings properly and knew how to make use of them. * The references you will find are similarly incidental, and not particularly revealing - for example when he asks his father to find him some fugues by CPE, part of Mozart’s wider study of contrapuntal techniques.
ferret mp4 You’re welcome. CPE is a fascinating composer, but something of an acquired taste. CPE’s very personal, highly distinctive empfindsamer Stil was almost too unique and individual to be widely influential. That said, he was one of the most highly respected composers of the age, particularly in the German speaking lands - for his music, his playing and the Versuch; he is well worth investigating.
ferret mp4 No, but I do play a bit, and have a small number of CPE’s works in my repertoire; I am currently working on this sonata which - typical of CPE’s music - presents some interesting interpretive challenges (particularly the shaping of the music and finding the right expressive feeling), and one or two technical ones (for example in the first movement development where we find ourselves in the horrendous key of G# major with six sharps and a double sharp in the key signature). I re-read CPE’s Versuch recently, but still find him one of the most difficult of all composers to bridge the gap between playing the notes and playing the music.
Good job on your progress! I think this CPE Bach Sonata is maybe slightly less difficult (at least in the first two minutes) because there's more repetition and less to drill in the left hand than Pathetique, and Pathetique Mvt 1 in particular a bit more difficult! :)
I think, you should always play a piece so fast that you could play it a bit faster or a bit slower, and it would sound still just as good. You feel that this piece has been spoiled by much of his character, which could have been expressed by playing it slower.
Naive? What do you mean? I hope you didn't misunderstand me, by "music" I didn't mean "repertoire", but I was talking about music in the definition of Krystian Zimerman: "using sound to organise emotions in time". Pianists should be judged by judging to what extent they are able to express emotions, and not the notes their fingers hit. "What would all those notes be without the soul behind them, and the music behind them? Notes aren't important, really." - Marc-André Hamelin
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
This shows definitely how much CPE Bach is an outstanding composer and how much his music has been totally forgotten by pianists. I noticed that a wave on interrest in his keyboard music started something around 15 years ago. This is really great. Thank you also SO MUCH for uploading the great Hamelin live!
You mean carl philipp emanuel bach
listen to JC bach, not his incompetent brother who's only musical accomplishment was popularizing the fortepiano and writing a book on its performance practice.
A quiet gem in the history of music. I feel CPE Bach bridged the gap between Baroque and Classical.
Viktor Ko I hear that too, I think it's why Mozart called CPE Bach "the father of sensitive style" or something like that lol
Definitely a nice gem, it reminds me of one of Haydn's
Haydn studied a collection of CPE's sonatas intensively in his early twenties.
first movement inspiered Mozart for Zauberflöte and Don Giovanni?
sebthi
Not really; there is virtually nothing of CPE Bach to be found in any of Mozart’s music.
Regarding the Zauberflote overture, you might find the opening of Clementi’s piano sonata Op 24 No 2 of some interest if you are looking for ‘influences’...or even downright theft; the Clementi sonata was written about ten years before the Mozart overture.
I love to hear Hamelin playing wrong notes in live performances. It's the only proof we have that he is human! (great fan btw!!)
A wrong note played with confidence is better than a timidly played right note.
@@bigl5343 agree
"Too play a wrong note signifies nothing, but to play without passion is inexcusable"
- LV Beethoven
I had not heard this before and I find it delightful.
Every note is clear and vibrant. Classy!
What a joyful piece of music! Pure sunshine!!
One of my 3 favorite early classical composers
Love to hear mistakes live - makes the performance more real and miraculous
Thank you maestro Hamelin for such a successful rendering!
Ha. Dad walks in @6:00
you sir, deserve more likes
LMAO~
+lesmizzle Isn't that part similar to the toccata from J.S. Bach's partita in E minor?
Daniel Hartnett composers recycle ideas from different pieces from time to time. It's like jazz licks and quotations.
Yes!! Only dad wouldn't have ended a first movement in the relative minor to get to key of the next movement! ;-)
1st mov : 0:09
2nd mov : 6:20
3rd mov : 9:46
Thx
CPE was truely a frontrunner. Genius!
CPE Bach is the person who influenced Beethoven. Beethoven’s early piano sonatas are very similar to him.
@@Cosimo-composer
As it stands, your comment is as inaccurate as it is misleading.
@@Cosimo-composer Больше наверное оказал на Бетховена, Клементи, а эти Сонаты больше напоминают Гайдна и Моцарта
What an amazing performance. I'm ashamed to say I've never listened to much CPE Bach, but the way he goes from the development into the recapitulation in the 1st and 3rd movements is something that the later Classicists should have taken as a lesson. So fresh and elegant.
Aahhhh!!! Viva Son of Bach.... I play this. I loved your little improvisations!! Long live the piano
Marc-André Hamelin est le meilleur virtuose de la musique classique et autres pour piano.
Amazing that it's Bach's son who wrote this. So not-Bach.. :D
Vladi Nekoloff. It is not JS Bach, but it is CPE Bach.
@@clivegoodman16 he means the style differs a lot from that of his father's
Both were in vogue with their respective generations.
@@CanelonVegano JC Bach's style differs much more
3:56 Unintended "blue" note in the turn/trill lol.
I have to say that sounded amazing! XD
This sonata is quoted in the famous book of Charles Rosen about the sonata forms as a good example of Sontata form. The allegro is as clear as a Haydn movement, while being less inventive. But it is a fully coherent and brillant piece. But the final cadence is at the reltive minor in order to manage a transition to the second movement, a sort of ornamented aria to which Hamelin added a short cadenza. The finale is as brillant as thre first movement. It is developed as a binary sonata form. All in all a very brillant sonata and a true masterwork.
Encore une fois , un commentaire intéressant à lire ! Merci ;)
I read all your comments. You cite frequently Charles Rosen and it is well for me. However, many of your opions look like informed ones but aren't. For example, when you say that this sonata is less inventive than Haydn. I would not dare say that without many qualifications first.
TO be more precise, Rosen's statement is the CPE's sense of coherence is shorter than Haydn's, where it becomes a piece of the overall architecture (Rosen, "Sonatas form")
Exactly, thats what Rosen says: structure but not inventivenness. The problem with Rosen’s book is that he was unable to judge Haydn’s music beyond structure (or acoustics in the case of piano trios). For thst reason I found the book boring and not very innovative.
4:37 Imagine how "radical" (to its time) this piece is thanks to that full bar of pause...
It isn't actually a radical tactic. Its a form of humour that can be found in Haydn as well. Basically, the rest is to shock the audiences who expect the music to continue. Its like a musical 'joke'. Haydn has plenty of them.
Try listening Royer-Vertigo
Yu Hng Ng
You are absolutely correct, though Haydn uses silence in more ways than just humour.
The four and a half beats of silence across the 5th and 6th bar of the Symphony 39 in g minor for example, is intensely dramatic, mysterious, and ratchets up the tension at the start of the piece to a very high pitch - it has nothing to do with humour and everything to do with defying expectations.
Try playing the opening of Symphony 39 on a keyboard, both with, and then without the one bar+ rest; without the silence, the music is good, with the silence it is genius.
A similar silence occurs at bar 20 in the Finale of the b minor piano sonata Hob XVI:32 - another classic, non-humorous, pregnant pause.
Perhaps the most familiar use of a whole bar of silence occurs in the slow movement of Symphony 101 (The Clock); Haydn prepares the listener for the striking and completely foreign switch of key to the submediant E flat by making us wait for four silent beats - pure dramatic theatre, he is not trying to make us laugh.
As you correctly state, there are countless others - some indeed humorous - and it was something not unique to CPE Bach.
It is probably worth noting too that Haydn sometimes does the exact opposite to unexpected pauses by writing the words ‘attacca subito’ meaning that the next section or movement is to begin immediately.
Also, both CPE - quite often, and Haydn occasionally run movements seemlessly together.
There is a lot more to Haydn than the ‘humour’ aspect which is highlighted sometimes rather more often than it needs to be and is in fact, better described in more cases than not as ‘playful ingenuity’.
@@rabbit-munch-carrots Yes, but this was before Haydn fully developed his musical style. Undoubtedly Haydn was very influenced by CPE.
Amazing! Are you a musicologist? How do you know all this information? I frequently see your replies and comments around the classical music community, specifically in the classical era.
Happy 300th birthday, CPE Bach!
I'm shocked about u
This year, it's his 310th.
9:27-9:31 Sounds romantic era to me! Wow, that was cool!!
CPE is very cool...but not Romantic; it’s his very personal and highly original empfindsamer Stil you can hear.
because it is improvised, do not confuse performer with composer.
Totally captivated and mesmerized by this music and this recording. Thank you for sharing 🌹
6:21 c.p.e. bach 피아노 소나타 A장조 2악장 감정과다양식 복합적인 감정표현을 극대화
Sounds like a Chopin type music
@driemaaldrommels "Hamelin doesn't hit wrong notes. They're all improvised real-time transcriptions." - fyrexianoff
I think so..
I'm not hugely knowledgeable about classical music, but I think CPE may be my favourite Bach. Possibly this has more to do with the generational gap than anything else; on the whole I tend to prefer more modern music.
beautiful touch! so light and crisp
Yes, absolutely delightful! but as I couldn't find this on a CD and after listening to as many versions as I could find, I have acquired CPE Bach Sonatas and Rondos, Christopher Hinterhuber, Piano. 2004. Naxos - beautiful too !
jubilanti15 Yo también tengo esa interpretación, que es mejor que la que aquí suena
Beautiful music at just the right pace.
People keep comparing this to Haydn, but I'd say the angry passion and the random mood swings actually makes it quite closer to Beethoven. Haydns normally pretty reserved in his compositions
Level 1-3
CPE is very much a one-off and difficult really to compare with anyone.
Haydn is the closest of anyone to CPE: probably from 1766, he studied CPE very thoroughly, both his manual on keyboard playing - the ‘Versuch’ - and the associated sonatas which first appeared in Vienna in that year.
In addition, he got his publishers to send him CPE’s latest works on a regular basis.
CPE told Haydn that he was ‘…the *only* composer who understood his teachings properly and knew how to make use of them’; this is a massive statement.
Beethoven was also still using exactly the same book and works in the early 19th century; we know this as his pupil Czerny wrote that Beethoven directed him to get copies and study them.
However, Beethoven’s own sonatas are really:
- of a very different age:
- written in a very different style,
- utilising a very different keyboard technique (though based on the theoretical background of CPE’s Versuch),
- composed to be played on very different instruments,
- intended for performance (often public, for which CPE’s were almost never intended), to a very different public.
Basically, you’re right; there is little point in keep trying to compare CPE with anyone.
CPE was an almost unique composer writing in a highly original and personal ‘empfindsamer Stil’; this individuality is clearly evident from listening to the first four bars of virtually any of his compositions.
I heard this played on clavichord, it was wonderful too. I don't know for which instrument this was originally written but it's one of my favorite pieces :)
Well it's probably as you say for clavicord , but officially for hapsicord, or in a very similar approach for fortepiano wich is at that time a new instrument used.
Hope I answered your question.
At about 3:55 some jazz things just came out lol
+曾則予 Lol yes! He played a dissonant note on accident. Sounds pretty cool though.
He was probably in that case thinking of Beethoven's Op. 111
lol
5:52
There are more than a few errors in this performance
Young Haydn considered CPE Bach his model and mentor but here Bach imitates Haydn!
It always draws a smile in my face since the first time I heard it
wow!!! this is amazing!!!
That is simply amazing.
Complimenti per la brillante esecuzione della sonata! Bravo!
it is a fast and delightful piece.
Toda una proeza interpretar esta obra maestra.
CPE Bach was an amazing innovator. Without him, I believe Mozart and Beethoven would have been drastically different artists. I especially love his Fantasias-- no measure markings; more like a stream of consciousness, or an extremely interesting conversation between two brilliant people. I am a huge fan of Hamelin, and had this video suggested to me by TH-cam. I wasn't aware of Hamelin recording CPE Bach, but I am not the least bit surprised. I am used to him playing impossible avant garde works from Sorabji, Alkan, or Godowsky. In my opinion, CPE sets well in this list of innovators. Not to diminish Hayden, but CPE Bach was on a much higher plane.
Some interesting thoughts; as you clearly enjoy CPE, you might find the following helpful.
CPE’s ‘Versuch’ - Essay on the True Art of Keyboard Playing - was the most important such manual of the 18th century; it is the basis of all modern keyboard playing.
The Versuch was innovative, transformational, and widely and massively influential.
Haydn studied the Versuch and the associated sonatas intently probably around 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna, he asked his publisher to send him works by CPE Bach for many years thereafter.
Beethoven was still using the Versuch in the early 19th century.
Mozart knew it as well, and was using CPE’s modern system of fingering for example, as was Haydn where you can see on the extant autograph score of the E flat piano sonata Hob. XVI:45, that the composer has added modern - ie CPE Bach-style - fingering to the repeated notes in bar 20 of the Finale.
Haydn acknowledged only CPE as a mentor, and CPE told Haydn that he was the *only* composer who properly understood his teachings, and knew how to make use of them.
CPE’s influence on Mozart is often massively over-stated - as you have done; Mozart’s music would have been barely a single note different had CPE never existed.
Mozart, the most travelled of composers never bothered to go to Berlin or Hamburg to visit CPE; the two composers never met.
Check the index of any edition of Mozart’s letters and count how many times CPE is mentioned.
Ditto any Mozart biography.
If that’s not enough, listen to any piece of your choice by CPE, then one by Mozart and you will be struck forcibly by the fact that they have absolutely nothing in common.
Square all that with your ‘...would have been drastically different artists’ point.
You are right that CPE wrote some fantastic works, particularly for the keyboard and including the fantasie you rightly mention, but also some of his concertos such as those for harpsichord Wq 43; the symphony Wq 177/178, or sets of symphonies Wq 182 and Wq 183.
There are a number of very fine choral works as well.
Many of these works by CPE would have been known to Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven; the trouble is that they are too highly original, quirky and idiosyncratic to be widely influential.
No composer could ever be said to write like CPE Bach.
You are right too that he was very innovative in many ways, it might have been better however not to have mentioned Haydn (sic) at the end, as that particular comment whilst as an opinion is fine, as a fact, is unsustainable - CPE is not ‘...on a much higher plane’ than Haydn and to suggest so is just silly.
In short - Haydn (who understood CPE better than most) and CPE, inhabited very different worlds.
15:45 left hand, transposed B A C H...
H isn't a musical note.....
@@muddbear6410 In German, H means B natural and B means B flat.
@@IkranAhiyik woah! For real?? That is terribly cool to know, thank you
Nice easter egg
15:45
As an early keyboard player it's interesting to listen to how a modern pianist would understand and recite C.P.E. Bach or any eighteenth-century Sonata. Worlds apart! Could any pianist out there explain the approach?
I suggest you listen to Lars Ulrik Mortensen's rendition of the same piece on harpsichord or to one on a clavichord or early piano.
Yes, they really take advantage of the piano's speed and technical abilities, but I feel that the historic message/tone of the music is easily lost in these expeditions.
@@ninjaassassin27 Think it has a lot to do with the piano being more monochromatic color wise with less sustain ability outside of the damper. So one plays faster with a greater sense of dynamic variation which the piano is very capable of. There's also the hot blooded romanticism which seeps it's way in character wise to make things more extreme.
Michael Nichols
A thoughtful comment; just one point though - ‘romanticism’?
CPE is writing in a very particular style called ‘empfindsamer Stil’ - often mixed up with some popular galant of the time - which is quintessentially Classical.
It is very difficult to hear anything Romantic in this music as found in Schumann, Chopin or Liszt.
What do you hear that is ‘hot blooded romanticism’?
@@elaineblackhurst1509 I really am referring to the overall approach Hamelin takes. Compared to "historically accurate" approaches, contrasts are very extreme, tempi mildly flexible, ect...It's not a comment on CPE Bach's writing, but on the approach to interpretation.
I'm saying what Hamelin does isn't too far from what Horowitz/Pogorelich did/do with Mozart and Scarlatti and Bach respectively. Romantic aesthetics applied to earlier music for the benefit of satisfying modern ears and tastes.
@@MikeN275
Some interesting points.
Could I suggest you search Dr Burney’s account of an evening spent with CPE and the description of his playing; I suspect it may blow your mind regarding ‘historically accurate’ recordings.
I think you can have passionate, sensitive and moving music without it being labelled ‘Romantic’, and CPE in particular is a very difficult composer on whom you can easily stick labels.
It is quite a common misunderstanding and simplification that music of the Classical period - Mozart and Haydn et al c.1750 - 1800 - must resemble a delicate porcelain figure, and that if there is anything more dramatic, or passionate, then it must be ‘Romantic’.
CPE’s ‘Versuch’ is also a must-read in terms of understanding CPE; he is absolutely clear about the paramountcy of the performer touching the heart and moving the emotions - both performer and listener.
I don’t actually disagree with anything you’ve written, I’m just searching for a different word to attach to CPE, his music - and the performance of it - other than Romantic.
6:20 C.P.E. Bach sonata in A W.55. No.4 Muv2
2:27 the way the notes Go tho💯
Well done Sir Marc, very well done! There are pianists, and then there are the likes of Marc Hammelin, who has a skill set that cannot be learned; it is innate.
Thank you Sir for sharing.
Amazing! as always!
Seems to be the "first" Beethoven. Incredible ! Great masterpiece thanks !
👈 Uhh no
You're listening to Haydn before there was a Haydn.
Joel Seda Well, yes and no. I gather this was composed or first published in 1765 (around then Haydn was composing the symphonies Breitkopf numbers 20-24, 30 and 31, his earliest string quartets, his first cello concerto, among other things... which are, I will agree, not fully mature Haydn, but are getting there :) )
Eric Schissel
The universally accepted numbering of Haydn’s symphonies is that of Mandyczewski who in 1907 listed the 104 in the order we now know them; it is this numbering that was adopted unchanged in the Hoboken catalogue of the composer’s works which is universal listing of the composer’s every work.
The whole point of a standardised numbering was to avoid the confusion of symphonies being numbered differently by publishers all over Europe, something that was widespread even in Haydn’s time, and since.
In England, the publisher Forster even published 23 symphonies using letters of the alphabet rather than numbers; Symphony 88 for example was ‘Letter V’ and was widely known as such across the English speaking world.
Breitkopf was just another of many such publishers; there is no such thing as ‘Breitkopf numbers’, though it was for this company’s complete edition that the Mandyczewski list was compiled originally.
Haydn’s symphonies are now only ever referred to by their Hoboken I* numbers which as explained above, were adopted unchanged from the Mandyczewski numbers.
* Hoboken grouped the works by category, then number:
Hob. I:1-104 are the symphonies.
Hob. XVI are the piano sonatas (so Hob. XVI: 20 is the piano sonata number 20 in c minor).
Hob. XXI are the three oratorios.
Et cetera.
Esta obra es muy superior a las sonatas de Haydn...
Robin Marthin Not superior or inferior; different!
Bach’s sons were the very source the classicists built upon their work
0:11 めちゃくちゃ好き
Such a delightful and cheery piece of musi
when I listen to this sonata, I remember Beethoven's "rage over a lost penny"
Am I he only one who finds Hamelin's playing here very much like Gould? Some may find the almost staccato touch distracting, but I find it wonderful. So easy to hear the different musical lines.
I haven't thought about it but now that you point it out I agree with you. At any rate a marvellous interpretation!
Well, the staccato touch was the norm in the classical era, so Hamelin is correct in his interpretation :)
vetlerradio the staccato is what makes it so beautiful.
Definitely the staccato is a MUST.
vetlerradio
It is perhaps better described as non-legato, rather than staccato which is not quite the same thing.
More widely, regarding the ‘norm’ in CPE’s time, Beethoven heard Mozart play just once - though never met him - he later described Mozart’s playing as ‘choppy’ ie not legato.
This suggests that non-legato was the ‘norm’ as performed by an outstanding fortepiano player at the time.
Additionally, CPE’s influential and definitive manual on keyboard playing at the time - the Versuch - gives clear directions about correct articulation, fingering, and every other aspect of Classical keyboard playing.
The Versuch was still being used by Beethoven into the next century, and was the basis of all subsequent modern keyboard-playing manuals.
I think pianists should be judged by judging the music they play, instead of the (either right or wrong) notes.
I'd like to point this sonata must be much harder to play than it looks if Hamelin makes errors even I can hear. The fact it is in just 2 voices most of the time is deceiving.
Thanks to Marc-Andre Hamelin for this GIFT
Very nice classical style sonata. C P E Bach was such a genius that he was able to compose in the Baroque and Classical styles.
The important thing is whether you listen to the wrong notes (aha!) or Hamelin's interpretation of the piece as a whole.
this is truly great.
I can feel the talent etched in their DNA
th-cam.com/video/KD1bQeeEo9M/w-d-xo.html
Best piece by CPE Bach.
I am getting completely sick of the rubbish comments that are all over TH-cam. This is NOT too fast. The tempi are wonderful ... any slower and the lovely pianistic effects would not work so well. Hamelin's control is superb, and there are far better thing to pay attention to in this music (one of CPE Bach's finest compositions) than listening out for the occasional wrong note.
That is because CPE Bach came in the Classical era. He isn't Baroque, but his father Johann is! :)
It seems to me that at about 1:26 there a mistake. However, this is my favorite performance of this piece❤
Beautiful!
beautiful piece, requires great fingering, did a great job playing it
Ms. Bach: "you want to name him CPE? Let's give him a proper Christian name: C3PO Bach"
Great!!!
Это восхитительно
Who puts ads in the middle of songs 😭
I can't deny that 3:56 makes me laugh uncontrollably every time. It just sticks out as a perfect comedic moment.
3:05 second part recap first time after double return
You can also tell his influence on Beethoven, who admired his sonata's as did Haydn and Mozart...
bloodgrss
Haydn studied CPE’s Versuch - manual on keyboard playing - and the associated sonatas probably around 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna; Beethoven was still using them as teaching material in the early 19th century.
The links with Mozart are much less clear; there is negligible evidence of any CPE influence in Mozart’s works, and a quick check in the index of any Mozart biography or edition of his letters will find scarce reference to CPE.
That said, the Versuch was important to every composer of the age, including Mozart; it is through this treatise that the only real link between CPE and Mozart can be found.
Summary:
1. influence on Haydn - *yes*
2. influence on Beethoven - *some*
3. influence on 18th century keyboard playing in general - and beyond - due to his famous manual, the Versuch - *definitely*
4. influence on Mozart - apart from the Versuch - *usually much over-stated and generalised,* and almost always never specified.
I am not aware of any specific evidence of Mozart admiring CPE’s sonatas.
The only reference to CPE’s keyboard works of which I am aware is in his letters when he asked his father to track down some of CPE’s fugues.
This was part of his general interest in studying counterpoint in the 1780’s.
Great piece- I can see Haydn in both style and some of the wit.
rondo cap
Haydn studied CPE’s Versuch, and sought out the associated keyboard works probably from about 1766 when it first appeared in Vienna; it was something he continued to do later in life whenever new CPE Bach works were published.
CPE was one of only two composers to whom the highly original Haydn ever acknowledged a debt*, something he openly stated to his earliest biographers (Haydn’s relationship with Mozart after 1783 was entirely different).
In return, CPE told Haydn that he was the only composer who properly understood his teachings and knew how to make use of them.
In short; you make a perceptive comment.
* The second figure is Nicola Porpora; the 20 year old Haydn acted as accompanist - and valet - to the crotchety old opera composer’s singing lessons in Vienna 1752 to 1753.
It is clear that Haydn learned much from his time with Porpora, and not only just about singing and accompaniment.
Haydn himself said that:
‘I had the good fortune to learn the true foundations of composition from the celebrated Porpora’.
Perhaps Porpora helped Haydn with his counterpoint studies from Fux’s Gradus ad Parnassum ?
Haydn also acknowledged that his Italian became very good working with Porpora, and late in life, whilst giving details to Griesinger for his forthcoming biography told him:
‘There was no want of ‘Asino’, [Ass = quadruped] ‘Coglione,’ [check this one out yourself - not polite] ‘Birbante’, [Rascal] and pokes in the ribs; but I put up with all of it because I profited greatly from Porpora in singing, in composition, and in the Italian language’.
Formidable!
I played the first two minutes of this piece at a recital. Is that a reasonable musical accomplishment? It took a good amount of time for me to learn the first two minutes. Even still, I have wanted to play Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata. I know it is more difficult, but to what degree is it greater in complication in comparison to the first two minutes of this piece? Ought I to simply practice the Pathetique and not worry about the challenge? Yes, I shall just do it!
1st 00:05
2st 6:20
3st 9:47
Did the first movement end on an F# for real? Really odd for the Classical period. But a real good bridge to the second movement. Carl, you clever guy.
a number of his sonata movements do lead into the succeeding movements rather than full-stopping, yes. (I've mostly only seen those that were reprinted/edited by the Farrencs and then excerpted from that edition and reprinted in 2 volumes by Dover, though IMSLP has uploaded yet more still ...)
the score being printed in the video above may be from the Dover edition (and I wonder if some of Hamelin's mistakes are mistakes, and some aren't the result of his possibly?? using a better edition, e.g. the rather more scholarly CPE Bach complete currently in progress...) (that he makes mistakes, sometimes quite a few- I'm not denying- heard him once in Alkan's symphony live, at the end of a concert, thrilling and impassioned but full of slight missed notes here and there. Loved the performance anyway...)
***** Sounds nice in an interrupted cadence ay?
lol carl
I wouldn't necessarily call this classical, more galant perhaps.
바흐의 피아노소나타 A장조 2악장은 소위 감정과다 양식을 잘 드러낸다. 약박 기준의 선율 주기, 비대칭적 구조, 꾸밈음, 장식적 음계 등이 느린 템포와 어울리며 넘치는 감정을 표현한다. 아울러 단조와 장조를 오가는 전조방식도 감정의 분출적 표현에 일조한다. 꾸밈음이나 장식적 음형 또는 리듬의 대비 등으로 표현력을 강화한 것도 눈에 띈다.
Hamelin is a fantastic virtuoso. His rendering of this sonata is wonderful. However, I would like to better hear he motive of the left hand at the beginning of this sonata.which alternates with the right hand arpeggios.
@KarloFeder It may be easy to play for him, but he actually works really long and deep on his interpretations. He talks about this in his Legato-Documentary, in case you're interested.
06:20 - 2nd
'Very easy' to play in a modern grand. I´d would ask a harpsichordist how to play with such speed!. Not to mention trying to play in this way in a clavichord. Although anyway, I´m very grateful to Mr. Hamelin for his performance!. Happy 300th birthday CPE Bach!
I don't know about "very easy." CPE's music has its own challenges. The thin textures may look easy on paper or when you go through them slowly. However, his music requires absolute evenness and delicacy of touch in order to be effective, which is not at all easy in some his faster movements. I played this sonata as well as his d minor sonata in one of my piano juries in college and to play them correctly with perfect evenness and expression, I would say is not any easier than any Mozart sonata I've played. I've noticed every good piano composer has elements of their works that are easy as well as challenging. Every composer brings about different challenges in their music.
And furthermore, this would have been played on a piano forte, not a harpsichord.
But I digress, it was a fabulous performance indeed.
Lluís Bofarull Ros The harpsichord and clavichord have much lighter actions than a piano's. Thus it takes less effort to push a key down, making fast runs much easier. plus, key dip is much shallower, so it is easier to stretch the hand to tackle wide intervals.
Eddy McCoy A really thoughtful, perceptive and helpful comment; I find CPE’s music one of the most difficult of all composers to make that essential leap between playing the notes and playing the music.
Perfect 👌🏻
Love the second movement of this sonata - CPE's expressive, sensitive writing at its best. The first movement's nice, but a bit clichéd galant.
Wow your so 👍 👍 👍 ❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊
0:04 start
It sounds like MOZART! :D
+Liliana Di Battista It is Mozart that seems like C.P.E. Bach
+Liliana Di Battista About the same time, so no surprise.
Liliana Di Battista No, en absoluto. Nada más diferente para ser de un contemporáneo, parcialmente.
Liliana Di Battista
Barely a note of CPE could ever be said to sound like anything ever written by Mozart and vice-versa.
Matteo Generani
Not a single note of anything written by Mozart sounds remotely like anything written by CPE; it is impossible to mistake one for the other.
CPE was well ahead of his time!
and how they play it, of course! he does a phenomenal job on this.
I'm a fan of C P E Bach, and have played this sonata a lot. I admire Hamelin's ability to play fast with almost no mistakes. However, he needs to slow down and savor the changing emotions of the piece. It's not supposed to be played so fast it's a blur.
I heard Hamelin in Edinburgh a few years ago in Beethoven's 4th and was dazzled! But here I agree with you. That is why I appreciate Furtwängler rather than Toscanini. Speed and brilliance never do justice to a piece of music.
No, it's allegro assai, this is the appropriate tempo.
@@SouthParkGermany100
Not if you read Allegro as a mood indication, rather than an anachronistic 19th century metronomic tempo indication as you appear to be doing.
Search Allegro/a in an Italian dictionary* - then add assai; if you do this, you will understand that CPE was not necessarily instructing performers to play the piece as quickly as Hamelin does here.
* Essere allegra in Italian = to be cheerful/lively.
According to IMSLP, it was composed in 1765.
0:05
6:20
9:47
I guess you are right, but I posted this one alongside an introduction video to Hamelin's upcoming set of Haydn Sonatas - "Haydnesque" was an apropos adjective. :)
Oh these comments that show that you have "The Ear" and recognize every mistake. I do not know if you are pianists. I am. Hamlin is a wonderful pianist. Do it like this and then talk about mistakes.
Well, if your only allowed to offer critique if your on the same level as the one evaluated then even professional critics wouldn't be able to give any. That said it is a common internet phenomenon that everyone is an expert and has to throw his opinion in whenever possible. So while I'm not really on board with your first sentiment, I do personally support the "I'm just here for the music" statement, which makes everything I just wrote an utter contradiction to my own dogma ;) Welcome to the internet!
yes, but this is my problem with critiques. often critiques are about mistakes.. and for me as a professional pianist playing a piece is more than no mistakes. If you listen to live concerts of pianists for example like Rubinstein, Horowitz and even Svjatoslav Richter there are always wrong notes, but does this disturb the music or the interpretation? I think it it nearly to pass an piano recital without some little mistakes. But mostly they are not so obvious for the audience.
Susi Schmidt I concur. Platformes like this one do however tend to bring out extreme points of view as people who just enjoy the music dont feel the need to comment.
I'm neither professional musician nor music critic so I can't really comment on your opinion about this matter in general. If someone does however impose stricly mechanical interpretations as his ideal, he is probably not worth it to debate with.
Carl Philip Emanuel Bach. Son of Johann Sebastian Back. Wrote an essay “An essay on the True Art of playing keyboard instruments.” Inspired the likes of Mozart and Beethoven.
ferret mp4
There is no evidence at all that CPE Bach ‘inspired’ Mozart beyond one much misunderstood, alleged quotation:
- the two composers never met;
- you will find almost no references to CPE in the letters of Mozart*, and very few in any Mozart biography; CPE really was somewhat peripheral to Mozart’s music and development;
- and most obviously, not a single note of either sounds remotely like the other.
You are quite right about the Versuch; it was the most widely influential keyboard manual of the second half of the 18th century - it was still being used by Beethoven in the early 19th century.
The Versuch was the starting point for all later such manuals.
CPE was really only a major influence on the younger Haydn. Haydn studied the Versuch and all CPE’s published sonatas avidly and clearly acknowledged his debt to him.
Haydn told his earliest biographers Greisinger and Dies, that CPE had told him that he was the only composer who understood his (CPE’s) teachings properly and knew how to make use of them.
* The references you will find are similarly incidental, and not particularly revealing - for example when he asks his father to find him some fugues by CPE, part of Mozart’s wider study of contrapuntal techniques.
Elaine Blackhurst oh my god this helps so much thank you!!
ferret mp4
You’re welcome.
CPE is a fascinating composer, but something of an acquired taste.
CPE’s very personal, highly distinctive empfindsamer Stil was almost too unique and individual to be widely influential.
That said, he was one of the most highly respected composers of the age, particularly in the German speaking lands - for his music, his playing and the Versuch; he is well worth investigating.
Elaine Blackhurst are you a piano teacher ?
ferret mp4
No, but I do play a bit, and have a small number of CPE’s works in my repertoire; I am currently working on this sonata which - typical of CPE’s music - presents some interesting interpretive challenges (particularly the shaping of the music and finding the right expressive feeling), and one or two technical ones (for example in the first movement development where we find ourselves in the horrendous key of G# major with six sharps and a double sharp in the key signature).
I re-read CPE’s Versuch recently, but still find him one of the most difficult of all composers to bridge the gap between playing the notes and playing the music.
Good job on your progress! I think this CPE Bach Sonata is maybe slightly less difficult (at least in the first two minutes) because there's more repetition and less to drill in the left hand than Pathetique, and Pathetique Mvt 1 in particular a bit more difficult! :)
simply love the 2nd mov
And the Lyrical features are quite fine, right?
I think, you should always play a piece so fast that you could play it a bit faster or a bit slower, and it would sound still just as good. You feel that this piece has been spoiled by much of his character, which could have been expressed by playing it slower.
Naive? What do you mean? I hope you didn't misunderstand me, by "music" I didn't mean "repertoire", but I was talking about music in the definition of Krystian Zimerman: "using sound to organise emotions in time". Pianists should be judged by judging to what extent they are able to express emotions, and not the notes their fingers hit. "What would all those notes be without the soul behind them, and the music behind them? Notes aren't important, really." - Marc-André Hamelin
6:20 2악장
Ah... so good...
This style of music is called rococo. It sort of got lost in a fold in history sandwiched between baroque and Haydn.
6:18 WHAT THA FUUCK
C.P.E. Bach liked to say 'fuck the usual rules' and link his movements together, sometimes in shocking ways. :)
yeeah wtf xd