Leica M11 with built-in electronic viewfinder - Preview by photographer Thorsten Overgaard
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Thorsten von Overgaard is a Danish writer and photographer, specializing in portrait photography and documentary photography, known for writings about photography and as an educator. You are always welcome to send an e-mail to Thorsten for questions, suggestions and ideas.
Thorsten Overgaard is an independent writer and photographer who write, teach workshops and publish user reports about the equipment he uses. There is no affiliation with Leica Camera AG or any camera dealers, no free gifts, no sponsorship, no kickback and no paid content. All you see is real and based on the life of an eccentric and hard-working photographer who makes his own money, buys his own equipment and form his own independent opinions - and shares with you. Enjoy the ride.
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Produced by: Thorsten Overgaard (www.overgaard.dk)
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This video was made with the Leica SL bhpho.to/3cIbPEg and Leica 35mm Summilux-L ASPH f/1.4 bhpho.to/2MEr0nn , using Sennheiser wireless microphones bhpho.to/2zafn4v . Leica SL2 as second camera.
#Leica #review #LeicaM11
Job no 2165-0222
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So, after wasting 16 minutes, the bottom line, there is no M11 with a built-in EVF.
Come back in some months, then maybe there is 🙂
I just wanted to drop a comment to express my sincere appreciation for your incredibly informative video. It truly felt like attending a magistral lecture on the subject. The depth of knowledge and the clarity of your explanations were outstanding. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.
I think an M-styled camera with an EVF is inevitable. I know many people who would buy one immediately. The benefits are simply too numerous to ignore: the ability to more easily focus fast lenses wide open at night when working quickly; not being limited to a central focusing patch and having to focus and recompose when shooting wide open; being able to use all lenses from ultra wide to 200mm with a full WYSIWYG experience; less chance of misaligning the delicate rangefinder mechanism if bumped; the possibility of freeing up space for an IBIS mechanism (extremely valuable with cameras of 61MP resolution); fewer moving mechanical parts and assemblies (thus reducing manufacturing costs over time), etc, etc.
The trick for Leica is to make the highest fidelity EVF experience they can: high eye point; minimum of 5.76M dots; fast refresh rate of at least 120fps, and so forth.
Delighted to hear about this . I would jump at this in a heartbeat
As much as I love the three rangefinders I have, I would definitely look at an EVF variant for shooting my fast lenses wide open at night. Which is often for me.
Love the discussion and thoughts about the EVF. Would pick up a Leica M in an instant with a built in EVF.
That’s not an M though. So you wouldn’t be picking up an M. It would be M only by name and advertising.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force If it doesn’t have a rangefinder than it’s not M (since M literally stands for rangefinder). It could be an ILC version of the Q.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force ummm no. M stands for the German word Messsucher which literally means Rangefinder. 🤷🏻♂️ If it has no rangefinder it can’t be a Leica Messsucher (rangefinder). If you take a rangefinder out of a rangefinder then it’s no longer a rangefinder. I thought that would be obvious.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force point me to where I said “A rangefinder is a rangefinder”.
A straw-man just makes you look stupider.
BTW. The word is LASER not LAZER. You’re the LAZER. Spend more time reading and educating yourself instead of talking nonsense on TH-cam.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force Mr. Strawman…
The world needs more people who can read and don’t use fake profiles on the internet. Maybe 🤷🏻♂️ Nothing “purist” about knowing what a word means.
The Q has already proved (to me at least) that an EVF is fantastic for usability. Focus peaking with manual is terrific.
Nice, but still feel the X-Pro 3 offers so much more.
I would definitely get a M with EVF. Similar to the X100 and XPro. Make it!
I’d love to see an implementation like Fuji did with the X100V. A hybrid Range finder / digital evf that you can toggle with a lever to suit your mood. Such implementation. Should be possible while keeping the DNA of the M line.
LEICA M 240 is the most sophisticated M body EVER made. Period!
They should make a Leica Q with SL mount and leave the Leica M line with rangefinder although the idea sounds awesome
Thank you Thorsten for a very thoughtful video! To me this sounds similar to a Leica CL with a full-frame 60mp sensor if Leica had evolved the CL product. I would have raised my hand too!
Great topic presentation! I got my first Leica, the Q2, a few months ago and my biggest fear came true - it IS a gateway drug into the world of Leica and now I certain that eventually I will get the M11. I do hope a version with an EVF is offered in the future! Cheers from San Francisco!
I did the same experience, but the lack of autofocus would still lower my enthousiasm.
Yes, that how it goes. Just is 🙂
Same happened to me. Lol Q2 for a year. Then M10-R and never looked back.
@@alainfoure5958 I thought the same but I used Q2 manual focus. Was overly sharp and pixelated. Manual focus looks more film like to me I don’t know maybe it’s just me.
Couldn't agree more. I would use a Leica "M EVF" in parallel to my digital and film M cameras. Horses for courses!
I’ve been hoping/dreaming for an M style body with built in EVF for 10 yrs. Maybe one of these days they will build it. I love rangefinders but an EVF M would be amazing and I would bet money would outsell the rangefinder series…which is why the purists are up in arms.
My problem with Leica's SL2 series is that I think it's a big, ugly camera. If Leica can make an 'M' camera with a built-in EVF that looks and feels like an 'M' camera, I might buy one. Leica will never succeed in making Noctilux lenses with auto-focus. Both their Noctilux lenses already weigh a ton.
The CL camera was/is the closest thing to a Leica M EVF camera - limited only by the APC sensor. The form factor of that camera is very much in the spirit of Leica M - light weight, simple and elegant.
I totally agree. The CL reminds me of my Leica III in weight and dimension. Leica needs a small FF camera that can be an entry point to users with M-mount lenses. EVF cameras are cheaper to manufacture than RFs and the SL mount lens options continue to grow but an SL body is not something I want as a carry/reportage camera. The answer seems clear to me - a FF version of the CL.
I would love a m11-D with a EVF that would be perfect for me
Please can you show us how to focus using the live view on back of the LCD.
Leica, if you are watching, I absolutely will buy a M with a built-in EVF.
Leica is missing a huge market by not releasing an M11e (M11 electronic viewfinder). Many love the Q and SL bodies, and if we had an option for an M-body with an EVF....oh yeah...that would be superb.
Well, they responded with the new Visoflex 2 that doesn't dwarf the M11. I have an M10-R and the Viso 020 that converted the camera in a veritable universal lens platform thanks to the dozen adapters out there.
Now my array of old glass from M42 Asahi Pentax, Nikon F, and of course Leica M39 LTM, complement my native M lenses from several manufacturers, in addition to Leica.
An EVF is a must for M or else the writing is on the wall for the system.
Can you please enlighten me why did Leica chose magnesium alloy for the M11 structure instead of, say, aluminium? (The top and bottom plate of the M11 are machined from brass while the front, back and sides are made from die-cast magnesium alloy). Magnesium, besides being a cheaper metal, is highly susceptible to corrosion and less resistant.
Magnesium's susceptibility to corrosion occurs despite the presence of an oxide layer. It fails to adequately protect components in acidic and neutral environments, where it can corrode rapidly exposing the metal underneath to further attack.
Furthermore, aluminium Alloy's tensile strength is relatively fragile.The same volume of magnesium alloy material is not as strong as aluminum alloy. In 5×108 cyc, Aluminium Alloy's fatigue strength index is 80 Mpa, Magnesium Alloy is 60 Mpa.
As you may well be aware of, Leica has faced previous CCD corrosion issues in their M9 and M10 models and as from April, 2021, is not replacing them for free. 📷
A Leica M with a digital viewfinder and a digital rangefinder-patch simulation would seem like a great compromise to me.
Technically, this should be possible and at least theoretically, this would combine the advantages of both worlds.
Interesting concept, yes.
Fuji has similar approach. Rangefinder and EVF combined. You can switch between two. If Leica does that then it will please everyone.
@@tjmanou6422 I like my fujifilm gear much. But technically, it's not a rangefinder. It's just a OVF/EVF hybrid, not a rangefinder with rangefinder patch into the middle, whereas one is focusing the double vertical lines, until they're overlapped, and thus therefore the composition is into focus.
@@tjmanou6422 yes, my Xpro2 works very well with its hybrid OVF/EVF
I think it might be possible with a small rangefinder focusing patch in the middle while having a OVF/EVF switch. Just like Fujifilm but better
A Leica M with an EVF isn’t a Leica M. It’s another mirrorless Leica model, but it’s not an M if it doesn’t have a rangefinder. Basically it’s an interchangeable lens Leica Q.
And about autofocus just keep it manual with the contrast help as Son does even you can choose the focus shadow to be red blue or white!!!
Now that we have 3 CF (close focus) M lenses, the 28, 35 and 50, all 3 of which require using an EVF for the CF feature to be used, in my mind I now see even more likely a new Leica Camera with built in EVF coming out. 2024 for the 100 anniversary is highly likely. The question is will it be an M, L or Q mount camera? Which ever maybe they just call it the Leica 24.
Its (you are) really amazing. Your constant passion for photography and Leica is so very inspiring. Leica is my optimal dream, one day, and you for sure keeps my dream alive and vibrant. Thanks :-)
Thank you for this video and all the others .. 😊
When Leica build a digital M with the same external dimensions as the M1, 2, 3, MD .. I will buy one. 👌
I'd be happy if Leica returned to the two window approach of the earliest Barnack's, but this time around with an electronic viewfinder for focusing and an optical finder for composition. For me the greatest thing about mirrorless cameras is the precise focusing possible by zooming into the view.
Ooh...now THAT is an interesting idea!! Back to the dual windows, I'd not thought of that!!
Hi from Mexico!!! Fuji did it easy since 7 or 8 years ago with X 100 and X Pro!!!1
Asking the LHSA for an M with an EVF is completely the wrong group for that. The survey for the rest of the customers were the right ones. I would buy an M with an EVF instantly. Also a Q2 with an M-mount.
Removing the rangefinder coupling will also simplify a lot for both Leica and the customer. No more misaligned rangefinders!
Leica also doesn't need to eliminate the rangefinder line but rather add an EVF-only-M in the line-up.
I wish Leica would make an M with EVF. I just can't get used to the rangefinder. Focussing is hard for me and framing the image is guesswork for me.
Isn't a M with EVF and autofocus basically a Q with interchangeable lensee?
Sort of, but autofocus is not going to happen.
Something that’s never raised in this RF vs EVF debate is rangefinder focus shift. Your M lenses are calibrated with the M rangefinder to focus at a specific aperture (typically wide open). When you take a picture at a different aperture, the rangefinder focus will not be accurate - there is a focus shift. It didn’t used to be such a problem with film, but it’s noticeable with high resolution digital. Try focusing on a subject’s eyes with a 50mm summicron at F5.6. They will not be sharp. Some photographers have learned to adjust for this by making a slight manual shift of the focus barrel AFTER rangefinder focusing, but it’s pretty hit and miss. This is not an issue with EVF, and as we head toward higher and higher resolution sensors, it seems like focus shift is the unaddressed elephant in the room for the current RF configuration.
Rangefinder and EVF are two fundamentally different approaches to photography (as you describe so well), each with their justification. Now taking away the range finder out of the M would remove the M’s heart and identity.
However, a new EVF camera (either based on Q or SL) that would offer both the portability of the Q System and the versatility of the SL System (essentially the ability to mount M lenses) would surely be very well received. At the same time, the M as it is, meaning with an actual “M”esssucher will (hopefully) always have an audience.
Make mine based on the Q!
I think the feel will remain for those not used to RF. A Leica M built camera with EVF built-in will be otherworldly for most people, in a good way. Then next they might step back to RF as well. The CL was "the small Leica SL"
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard I very much agree, an M with EVF would be an incredible camera without doubt. And it would definitely have it’s customers, including me potentially. Actually, when you go back to the conception of the earliest Leicas, I wonder, would Barnack really have favoured RF over EVF? I don’t have an answer for that, but I think EVF fits the original concept of Leica very well.
I am not a radical purist at all. However, in any artistic field, I always would favour tools that put the human being in control to the highest possible degree, let us rely on intuition, imagination, creativity, craftsmanship, and to a degree sometimes simply chance or “serendipity”. I really admire such artistry and culture. Thats why I would still favour an M with RF (plus Visoflex on occasion). I am not worried though. I believe there will be an M with RF for a long time to come, even if it’s only a total niche version of the M like the M10-D.
I cannot deny how attractive of an idea to have built in EVF for many occasions (such as shooting ultra wide angle lens), but.... if that alters M optical view finder experience not as an "option" but permanent built in, it kind of breaks the purpose of buying M camera from to begin with. But hey, if Leica some how manages to build evf inside the camera, I am more than open to try it. (and of course it will make used M11s cheaper, so I can buy one lol)
The day I saw the visoflex, I knew this could straightway fit inside where the VF is.
Just make a q2 with the iso on top, good compromise, my only problem is iso is not on the q2m to change quickly manually. Keep the M as it is.
Excellent insight, thank you so very much! What do you think about a CL(2) with a full frame 40mp sensor? Close to the same size as a Q2, but with interchangeable lenses. Thank you for your thoughts!
An excellent idea especially on Monochrom version.
I think the best solution would be a higher res EVF. (Maybe > 8M dot) but also support a digital recreation of the rangefinder split image patch in the EVF as one of the focusing mode options. Then you have a UX that is the best of both worlds.
Visoflex 2 really looks bulky and ugly on the camera.
I use 135mm lens on M10-R a lot. another reason why EVF is needed for better focusing. Also, EVF helps to frame and pre-visualize B&W landscapes for me as well. Thank you for a great video.
I heard that having a Leica will make you a great photographer. I just wanted a camera that said "Leica" somewhere on it and put gaffer tape over the red dot.
I really like your Leica talks, Thorsten. I've been waiting a couple of months for my M11 now, and will probably get in in a month or so. Then I will probably join one of your workshop/photowalks. See ya!
Looking forward to both you getting the M11 and seeing you in a workshop 🙂
@darklunni
6 minutes ago (edited)
I have a new M11 camera, but there is a constant bug. When I return the camera from sleep mode, the red light is on and the screen does not turn on and I can't take pictures, сamera freezes. Only after taking the battery out does it start working. Also the constant problems of Focus peaking. I select it in Info Profile, select the color, but probably it very rarely works. Hope they will fix this problem with a new upgrade.
This is unacceptable. I’m interested in buying an M11 but not after reading this kind of experience again and again.
Very interesting, but, yet again the technology is racing away from the photographer, more features we didn't know we wanted. "My life will be better if I had that feature". "My life will be better if I had this feature". When all I wanted was to loose myself in the photography. I want my Leica MP back.
Another thought.
Very rarely that anyones very first camera is a RF nowadays.
In the old days it was all RF so switching to M was normal. But nowadays when we are all growing up with EVF switching to RF is more like a step back and a harder choice to make. For Leica to sell more M they eventually have to consider this as older generation is fading out and to keep making RF just for a very small % who love it as a company is risky. No wonder why Q and SL are so popular. However SL is still bulky like DSLR and Q is limited to one lens. I see M with EVF will disappoint some but will be a huge success.
Maybe they can still keep RF models for those who love BUT add a new model of M with EVF and test the market. Thank you
They should have an EVF mode and an RF model, no doubt about it. The RF is holy, but the EVF is within reach and they should test it and see what happens.
Cool. Thanks for sharing.
Love your videos Thorsten, hope one day I can attend one of your workshops, saludos
Thank you, would love to welcome you in my workshop 🙂 workshops.thorsten-overgaard.com
how about just offer the M with a .58 option. LOL My 6 has it and i didn't even consider it when ordered my M10R black paint to finally replace it. I cannot see my 35 frame lines now that i have glasses with a .72 finder. So now it is contacts or sell. Does anyone know if Leica would do a .58 custom replacement? If Leica did an M with the same eye relief as the Q2 or SL2 evf with a zoom focus button not auto zoom in, I would be a buyer. If they did a Q3 with a fixed 35mm lux I would buy two!!
Hello, great video with a great question evf or not, i prefer not it’s because i love M system. For LR preset code doesn’t work ☺️
Try again, please. I just tried, didn't work, then I tried again and it worked. A glitch it seems.
Fuji have intergrated dual evf and optical viewfinder a decade ago. It’s about time Leica caught up!
Many have stated that, but Leica worked on a high-end solution and wasn't able to get the two systems integrated in a solution that met the demands for quality. I agree.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Has little to do with quality but with a rangefinder assambly which Fujifilm x-pro does not have. You have to put both in there as well as magnification optics to be able to magnified the image in the VF. Unlike what oeople thinking Fujifilm is not Leica and other way around. Fujifilm x-pro is kind of digital Contax G variant.
I’m here interested in that ant crawling on the left shoulder. Where it went? 😂
It's Freddy. He lives in the garden.
Always nice to hear you talk about photography and Leica in particular.
Even better if it is illustrated by B?W photos you shot.
Little comment
ISO, in digital camera's, is not about the sensitivity of the sensor but the attenuation of the signal after the shot is taken.
Thanks for sharing.
There hasn’t been a Leica invention since 1950. That should tell you something. Leica is the Willy’s jeep of photography. Today there is lots more to enjoy.
I wish they would integrate the EVF with the OVF
I wonder if Leica could do something similar to the Fuji X=Pro3...where it is an optical view finder, but you hit a button and an EVF, internally slides into the optical area and you see through EVF there?
Seems the best of both worlds. And Fuji seems to squeeze this into about the same space as an M body....
Do you have any idea when Leica might release this M11 with built in EVF?
Early 2024
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard since we're close to the end of 2024, are there newer projections?
A Leica M without the classic Contax rangefinder is no Leica M.
In my opinion. that's why broke people like me desire the M, it's the simplicity and class.
Edit: on the video thing, The M is the ultimate Photographers camera, that's why there's no need for video capabilities.
Very thoughtful video, thanks for sharing
The lnks to mentioned presets and styles were missing - thanks for adding them since then.
I see that Just added it: Leica Styles/Presets for Capture One and Lightroom: tinyurl.com/35asfrbs
To get them for free, use code: "LEICAOVERGAARD" for Lightroom presets and use code "LEICASTYLES" for Capture One Styles - then they are entirely free and you saved $48.00)
Hell yes, I would finally get an M.
I sold my x pro2. The optical viewfinder was one of the reasons I bought but it was fuzzy and slow. I have an M240 now which is great.
The viewfinder on the Fuji Xpro sits on the corner of the body so you get a lot of disturbing light into the eye when you look into it, and on top of that is is fuzzy. Great concept in theory, in practical use not really a help in making photos.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard I agree totally
They just should make a smaller SL
It exists it's a Sony.
@@jasongold6751 naa.. I had Sony and came back to Leica again (or better Panasonic). A smaller SL would be perfect. Or a CL with a FF sensor
The Leica CL was sort of the smaller SL. I think the idea of a smaller SL body is there, but then if you use it with the SL lenses, no point in making it smaller. SL is a huge success as it is. Talking of smaller body with an appeal, the M with EVF would be a hit.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard yes but you can use other lenses with it. Btw the CL becomes more attraktive as chineese manufacturers make nice manual lenses for it
Is it likely to be something they launch with the collaboration with Panasonic under the LS2 umbrella that was recently announced? Panasonics electronics experience and manufacturing capabilities is ideally suited to a new range of camera that could have built in viewfinder ?
Leave it all manual. Just put in a spectacular EVF and dump the range finder all together. No hybrid. Personally I prefer to keep rangefinder and beef up the current EVF design to something really spectacular.
I agree. The spectacular EVF design would be inside the camera.
Yes I would love it
I would be surprised if it was technically possible to integrate an EVF into a Leica M AND retain the optical rangefinder at the same time. So in the end, a Leica M with integrated EVF would not be an M anymore but just another camera. In other words, by doing so, Leica would give up the M product line - the product that stands for the Leica brand like no other one. Besides: what is the point about a „Leica M“ with integrated EVF if there is Leica SL2 and Q2 (and the S line) already - the first one even being usable with M lenses. I think killing the M would be desastrous for Leice. My point ov view.
A Leica M with built-in EVF would still have simplicity, ISO-dial, aperture dial, shutter speed dial and be built like a tank. And it would take the worlds best lenses. So it would still be an M in that sense. But gone would be the intuitive feel tat put's the picture making into your imagination rather than in front of your eye. For "professional" use, an EVF make sense as you work fast and with certainty. But you loose the imagination and creating.
I don't see it would kill the M system to also make an M with built-in EVF. Unless the sale of traditional rangefinder dropped to half or so. It likely would open the M system to more users that like "advanced cameras" and just don't get the RF.
I don’t think it has to be either this or that. I think too many don’t switch to M because of RF (I was one of them). But I still bought it because there was no other option. SL looks like a DSLR to me, big and bulky. I had Q2 and wanted something between Q2 and M. I don’t care about autofocus at all. But EVF would be helpful especially with longer lenses like 135mm etc. I use visoflex but it drains the battery very fast lol
There´s still another reason why I ike the rangefinder and wouldn´t want it to disappear from the M: I simply appreciate (or even admire) the precision with which this opto-mechanical instrument has been built and how perfectly it works (if adjusted properly). Maybe similar to a mechanical watch (or a fountain pen 😉). It´s simply a joy to work with. Regards, Peter
@@peterh5306 absolutely agree.
I am the anomaly here, as I would absolutely get an MEVF. I suppose the real question is will they do a hybrid as in will they include both like say similar to Fuji. I don’t think it’s sacrilegious as since M9 these are now digital designs and requires battery to operate so why not add EVF. I’m in!!
Another suggestion is L mount M lens staying manual focus.
I've been using a Leica M10 for 2 years with f2 and f1.4 lenses. During these 2 years I also tested a Leica SL2 with my Leica manual lenses and a Fujifilm GFX with GFX lens. A month ago I bought a Hasselblad X1DII with theie new 55mm f2.5 that I had to use manually from time to time due to slow AF.
I swithed that one back to a Leica M10P with a 50mm summilux. I can't understand everyone here that says an EVF is faster to use than Leicas rangefinder system ... with AF lenses, absolutley. But with manual focus lenses it's a nightmare using EVF coming from the RF system. you have to magnifie to check the focus, the color aren't as accurate in focus peaking, when it's dark the focus peaking are all over the place.
When I upgrade my m10P I will 100% get a new rangefinder, no EVF for my M-bodies. And if my eyes get worse, I'll most likley aim for an AF camera.but putting an EVF in to a Leica M will most likley happen, but I will not be a buyer, that's for sure, the OVF is king of the hill!
Wrote some words about my Hassy X1DII experience here: www.gustafjansson.se/blogg/some-weeks-with-hasselblad-x1dii
Hybrid EVF/OVF please. I though M11 should has this before it release......
Sehr geehrter Herr Overgaard, schauen Sie sich bitte die TH-cam-Untertitel Ihrer (sehr interessanten) Videos an. Mein Englisch ist gut, aber einige Akzente sind schwierig für mich. Es gibt Wörter, die YT uneinheitlich übersetzt. Bitte erwägen Sie das Hinzufügen von Bildunterschriften, die von einem Übersetzer oder einer Schreibkraft erstellt wurden.
I would switch from my $80k in Canon bodies and glass to Leica in a heartbeat if they made an M11-style camera with a built in EVF. I love shooting with the Q3 so much so all that is missing is the ability to change lenses.
The LEICA MP Type 240 is the most revoutionary camera M body ever made n sooo many ways!
A Leica Q-M with EVF and Leica M-mount will make more sense, the tech are already for that Camera and it will also make the Camera much cheaper ! Price tags for Leica have become too high in "Gucci"-style !!!
Apart from the die hard Leica fans, I think adding some features to an M11 would benefit all but the purists. The issue is that you can only keep charging high prices (approaching 10k) for a tool thats similar to what was used 30 years ago. A Leica quality version of the Fuji Xpro3 would be very nice!
Its more than that.
All digital cameras are subject to digital Rot: mainly the decline AND deprecation of the battery tech.
Can we all conceive of a future digital “CR2” battery, like most film cameras use, as a future generic battery where you buy the canon or leica version to fit your 40 year old m9?
Thats the real problem.. at least fuji’s are priced to be “disposable”… Leica’s have a economical and brand conflict. You can’t build a camera to last a lifetime or be an heirloom with digital rot. I wish we could.
Not sure of a solution… except maybe one of those titanium leica film camera bodies that came out…. Damn!!! Sexy!!!
Economically speaking, buying a $9000 leica digital, then perpetually trading it in for the new one every 5 years at a loss of $3000… thats really the only way to have a digital leica last you a “lifetime” at about $700 a year.
What do you folks think?
Interesting subject. I always thought that an EVF on an M would kill the M series because of the other Leica EVF cameras - TL2, SL, Q2 & CL. I suppose the M lenses being so extensive is a huge bonus over for example, the CL which has its own lenses without aperture ring which isn't the same experience as using an M. Why have an M if not using the range finder? I cant afford any of the Leica's so this does not really impact me but its an interesting topic.
They can just make it so that it is possible to change the lens on the Q2, and then you kinda have an M with an EVF 🥳
Great piece, Thorsten - from the man who makes the best camera strap I ever used! Maybe they’ll call it the Leica I (eye) and it’ll be simply an advanced Q with interchangeable lenses.
Thank you, David. Glad to hear you are happy with the camera strap 🙂
Pretty good, but what we are dreaming of is a messsucher with augmented reality pulsed by a LiDAR showing the depth of field 🤞🏾
Hi Thorsten - great talk about built-in evf on a M11 but here's a caveat - this will give me the -->tunnel vision
I love my M11 but I will swap it for a version with build in EVF the instant it’s available.
I borrowed a brand new M11 with 35mm lens a few days ago. I wanted to see what was so different about Leica and the always talked about ' Leica Look'. I have compared very detailed shots of the new M11, a Sony A7iii and Fujifilm XPro3. Aside from resolution, i seriously cannot fathom the extra $10000 price tag for the Leica. Sure the image is much higher in megapixels, but honestly all 3 cameras produced roughly the same quality photo. I appreciate that people like to purchase high end brands as they like prestige gear, but......i do not see it worth it. For anyone stuck on the fence about getting a Leica camera, I can honestly say that if you have the money do what you want. i have the money to purchase a few of these M11's but to be brutally honest I cannot see the any reason aside from image status to own one. i have tested dynamic range and processed the photos like any normal consumer would and I would bet nobody reading this could determine which camera made which photo. Note to newcomers, DO NOT get caught up in the leica hype. Like all other mirrorless bodies, they are just sensors and a lens like any other mirrorless camera. After shelling out $10,000 plus for a leica, you are kidding yourself if you think your photos are superior to anything else a fifth the price on the market.Sure if leica gave me a camera i would take it, but i am in no way paying that much money for something that delivers image quality on par with much much cheaper brands. Dont believe me?......rent one and see for yourself. I have leica raws I could tell you came from a sony a7iv and you would believe me. TH-camrs seem to pushing the Q2 at the moment, avoid it at all costs. You are not getting a camera that is superior in any way. Leica cameras do have once strength that none of the other brands have yet to achieve. Their bodies and lens drain your wallets very quickly with no noticeable benefit to the owner. Maintenance on leica is insanely offensive too along with accessories. I dare you to prove me wrong.
If I bought a Leica M, it won't be for the status symbol; it's because Leica Ms don't have the steep learning curve that sophisticated high-end DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras have, they can take many months to fully learn how to use them; whereas for those who have experience of using manual focus cameras will learn to use a M in a matter of days. Another reason why I would buy a M is because of their solid build quality and simple design. Considering all the hype around the Nikon Z8, it turned out that the Z8's rear panel is made from solid plastic, while the front panel is Magnesium alloy, which is a major disappointment.
Great talk! And I think the guest at 25:35 wanted to check out the EVF as well 🤓
Oh, there he was, the ant! I saw him on the table during the filming but never saw him in the final edit. Good eyes you have. He's a fellow from my garden, sneaked in on my pants or something after the coffee break. Also have lizards come and go into the house, so they probably ate him in the end 🙂
My Leica MP and a roll of Kodak TriX is all I need. I would imagine the EVF Leica will be a variant of the Leica Q that allows you to interchange M lenses.
Valuable information, you can do something with that. No endless chatter, but to the point. Fine. Thank you.
I would buy an M11-EVF. With the EVF2, on the other side, I found out that focusing with an 21mm lens is more precise. The focus peaking in the EVF 2 shows peaking on the object, even the focus is a few cm away. In the RF I can see it more precise.
On the SL2, btw., I can nail the focus anytime.
Yes, you have to turn of focus peeking (the red outline) for wide angle lenses, because the focus peaking is so not sensitive that it lights up with red before the subject is in actual optimum focus. Blame it on great lenses, but focus peaking wasn't made for f/1.4 lenses or wide angle lenses. But it can be turned off in the menu, and it should.
If Leica gets EVF on "M", that would be one stone that kills two birds. Both Q and M will be killed. Because it offers 'Q' with interchangeable lenses, and 'M' with no need of focus calibration. If Leica will introduce that camera, whatever it calls, the size will be something like CL. Simply manual focus, full frame, no video, EVF, 60mp, M-mount and no IBIS. That would be my dream camera.
Brilliant Thank you
I´m at the fence of buying a Leica, for the sake of the "quality" of the lenses and camera bodies. Been on Sony for all my life (DSLRs, DSLTs, Mirrorless, both Apsc and FF). Feel like Leice is really scared of loosing their market if they apply the EVF technology on M bodies. Problem is Leica users want EVFs, event if they say otherwise. So, "purity" is holding you all Leica users from the benefits of progress. The lack of EVFs on M bodies is just to mantein the size of cautive market.
Introduce new feature = Charge More $, Come out with special edition M cam without that feature = Charge More $$$ Its a Win-Win-Win for Leica.
Ask the "group" for a road map? Lot of grey and bold spots in the audience 😃
Without youth there is no future for Leica... Instead of trying to copy Apple with a very poor product launch of the M11, Leica should start to create a vision! (Copy that from Apple ;)
They have the know how the products and the heritage. Just do it or get the right people on board. Start thinking about who you're making products for. Maurice, a 53 year old grey Leica fan boy.
Yes, the M11 launch was very much an "Apple presentation" and the EVF had a lot of attention. For an M, it would have been more appropriate focusing on the metal welding rather than the electronics.
I don't own a Leica M, but if they released one with an EVF, I would buy it.
Ideally, I'd like a Q2-style camera, but with a focal length of somewhere around 70-90mm, and a fairly wide aperture (f/2?). My daily carry is a Leica Q2 and a Fujifilm X-E3 with a 56mm f/1.2 lens for portraits. But the Leica quality is miles above the Fuji. I'd like 2 Leicas.
Why not an hybrid viewfinder … like with Fuji
Because they tried to make one, and wasn't happy with the quality. I agree. Haven't seen or tried a hybrid that was as good as RF or EVF, only half of each.
Q with interchangable lenses M-Mount
The EvF M will come once the available technology will match the same performance of an analogue rangefinder i.e no shutter blackout and stacked sensor for fast sensor readout and no delay. A seemless viewfinder experience between rangefinder and EvF would be the ideal
Yes, a Leica M with built-in EVF and a sensor readout of 1/500 or faster is within reach in the next model(s). Nikon made it to 1/270 and Canon to 1/180 so far (and Leica 1/10 in the M11)
Why not offer both in a hybrid....um like an XPro3??? I moved from Xpro3 to M10r because I hated the fly by wire focus of XF lenses (the feel of mechanics of the Leica lens controls is amazing), the Leica color system is more pleasing, and the quality of the Leica build is very nice. I take better photographs with my M10r because the tool is more natural and pleasing. The only two things I miss are the hybrid viewfinder of the xpro3 and the availability of APO lenses is ridiculously poor.