Traditional Hymns Vs Contemporary Worship: The REAL Difference (NoPro Worship #20)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The struggle between tradition and change has been enough to break churches apart! Join me as I begin a new series looking into how to integrate traditional hymns and contemporary worship songs - combining the best of both worlds. But first we have to look at what the FUNDAMENTAL difference is between the two styles. Watch to find out!
- New Principles, Strategies, Tips & Tricks every Friday!
- To support this ministry: / davidwesley
- Facebook: / davidwesleymusic
Thanks so much to my patrons!
-- MARSHA HANSEN -- Faye Marie Fuller -- Jendrik Föhlisch -- Brianna Pradia -- Lois Cunningham -- Paul Weaver -- Shera Morris -- Brad Johnson -- Wayno Guerrini - เพลง
David, thank you for a wonderfully fair, balanced, and Christ-centered analysis. You've helped me to see beyond the preconceptions that I've held regarding both hymns and contemporary music. I really enjoyed your singing and playing as you shared examples. This video is a great resource I will be sharing and visiting again. Very well done!
I agree! Thank you David! So well thought out and helpful.
Whether it is traditional hymns or contemporary worship songs, my biggest gripe with worship leaders is that many seem to blur the line between leading worship and performing, as if they are the center of focus at a concert.
Indeed. Though we should celebrate the gifts God gives to His people, we shouldn't let that eclipse the worship of the God who gave them.
Yeah and they make sure they look good in their skinny jeans.
My disappointnent too...
@@nathanadkins2985 hehehe it's everywhere even here in Kenya🇰🇪
Amen. Song leaders that add or omit words displayed on-screen for the congregation are showing too much ego. Ones that add strong body gyrations can distract from the musical message. I think of vocal music in church as "sermons in song." The message can be delivered by beat and rhythm, melody line, and/or words. It's the message that counts, not the praise band member.
Thanks for this, David! My pastor asked me to take over worship leader duties with the caveat that I can do all the "new" stuff but keep some traditional songs as a large part of the congregation is over 60 years old. I am trying find a balance where we can incorporate these traditional hymns which are so impactful and full of biblical knowledge, but today's generation responds to a more "contemporary" style of worship and this is also important.
It's a tough balance to keep. Can't please everyone! Just make sure you have goals that honour the mission of your church and respects who your congregation is.
One of the main roles of the church is to teach and often that involves things that aren't particularly comforting to the world. In fact to a certain degree even God's people shouldn't be too comfortable in approaching His throne. I truly believe we are reaping the fruits of many years of allowing the flow of influence to be in the wrong direction so that in many ways the church is the one being "evangelized".
Mk Shffr Hmmm. Now there's a thought. But an unsettling one at that.
You have a very nice voice. I have been traditional minded when it comes to church music, but I went to a service yesterday and the young pianist played with a contemporary style on a grand piano and it sounded great to me. He used tritone subs, reharmonizations and some quartal voicings. He was not a banger, but he did use dynamics very effectively. His playing and music retained my interest.
Interesting, thought-provoking , I am glad I stopped by. Your keyboard skills and knowledge is an awesome blessing!
Thank you, I love worship music but have been brought up on hymns. I never understood why it was so easy to play a hymn versus worship. It is because I was lyric/ melody lead, I followed either the leader or the congregation ( without drums) and we never had an issue staying together.
But when I play the worship music my team wants to jump ahead with the words while I am finishing the chord progression or I want to play freely while they are keeping with the beat. It all makes so much sense now. Thanks for explaining this.
Excellent video. It was thoughtful, and I really appreciated your focus on unity and sharing information. This provides a great foundation for beginning "inter-worship-style" conversation. The video itself was well put together, too. Keep it up. I enjoy listening to your song recordings as well.
Glad you enjoyed it! Reasoned conversation beats vitriol any day!
Thank you for this music-based explanation.
My experience from leading contemporary worship for years and also participating "congregationally" for even more years, is:
1 - Leading worship is leading the congregation in worship of our holy, creator God.
2 - Melody-driven music is easier to pick up and follow (compared to groove-based music), especially if you have never heard the song before.
3 - Contemporary music (when groove-based) has many unexpected syncopations, inconsistent phrasing of the lyrics, and is just difficult for many average congregants. It leaves them behind. They no longer participate in the worship.
Conclusion: Melody-driven music is better for congregational worship whether it is contemporary or traditional in style. Leave the groove-based music for private worship and Christian performance, etc. Above all, pray and ask God what music He wants to praise Him. It is not really our choice. Cane brought the best he had to worship God, but God rejected it because it was not what He wanted, or required. It may not make sense to us, or be what we would choose. Let's make it God's choice as we worship Him.
There are real generational and experiential effects at play when we talk about what songs are easier to learn. A teenager immersed in contemporary music (Christian or otherwise) is used to to the “vocabulary” of groove-based composition, and come to expect it just as much as others expect the conventions of traditional music. Our brains are shaped by our listening experiences, and enjoy being exposed to familiar patterns. What’s easier for members of one culture to learn could be quite difficult for another.
Weezer uses similar pauses in there song, “Say it ain’t so.” The final absence of this pause after the bridge makes the ending feel complete and scary, while it’s presence in the verses makes them more relaxing. It could have been in response to the writer’s father converting to the baptist church, as some of the lyrics are.
well done. thank you. this addresses some of the concerns from our older congregation. some of the contemporary songs we need repetition so that new songs can be learned. a screen with the words def. helps.
New songs need to be led confidently and introduced strategically. An unfamiliar style creates mental obstacles to learning, but they can be overcome when the motivation is there. What better motivation for a senior is there than "this music means so much to your grandkids"?
Thank you, Brother for sharing this with us. I want to try to write my own worship songs and this is really helping me. Thank God He showed me your video on this.
When you write them please sing them at home. Gospel is the real deal.. Hezekiah walker and ever praise is a spinoff of sting..every breath you take... He should be ashamed of himself
Every praise
One of the things I love about traditional hymns, And Can it Be? my favorite, is they tell a story from the first to last verse. My only problem w/ Scripture songs isn't the songs themselves. It is most of the churches I've preached in have totally abandoned the hymns. Tomorrow is Easter and there are churches, including the one I attend, that will not sing, Christ the Lord is Risen Today.
There were Easter services before that hymn was written, so clearly it’s not requisite for a proper service!🤣
Excellent video. Thank you.
Excellent video! Better than many of your others that only talk. Thank you David for this instructional and DEMONSTRATIVE (I hate the first part of this word but I can't think of a more descriptive word) video. It helps. When you only explain or talk, that's monotone. But when you sing, play and display the parts of the song in notes/lyrics, that's video in stereo, & the quality if light is like comparing sunlight to tungsten bulbs. And I haven't heard the song "And Can It Be" for over 50 years (vacation Bible school as a child--not in my church's hymnal)!! If you had just explained it, I would've never remembered this old hymn. And you sang even this teeny part so well, I wish you'd sing the whole song! GOD bless & have a great day!
Ha! DEMONstrative. :) I was up until almost 3am recording this one, so I'm glad the extra effort was worthwhile. It really is a topic I'm passionate about. I've seen too much harm done by people that handle it poorly!
😀😀
Etymologically the word "demonstrative" has nothing to do with "demon". I am sure you know that.
I get your point though. 😀
This was really well explained, thank you.
I never knew this before!
Are you going to tackle catholic vs prodistant himself and the history of gospel too
That’s not really up my alley. This video was just about an important structural difference than many don’t realize. I don’t touch on the history - because that would inevitably cause controversy!🤣
Sounds like you read In Tune With God by Dr. Lillian Doukhan or she read you. Great explanation. Thanks!
Don’t think I’ve heard of it.
I enjoy both hymns and contemporary music. But everything needs to be subservient to the words. It is the message which ought to be supreme. Music style is culturally driven and varied. I would suggest this is honoring to our God who desires people from every ethnicity, language group, cultural group, age, and gender to worship Him.
That’s why I was focusing on structural differences, to break through some of the stereotypes of different styles or eras of music. There are plenty of songs in both camps with great lyrics, but prejudices may prevent some people from enjoying them all.
Hello David! I love your work and the exposure you’ve gotten thus far. Question for you: are you classically trained?
Not really! Most formative musical training was in a marching band.
David Wesley nice! That’s awesome bro - I know some friends who were trained via marching band as well. They’re great musicians
Hai,My Jesus bless u.
Do you have any good examples of modern worship songs that emphasize melody the way hymns do?
Ahh, there’s the question. If the songs truly are as subservient to the melody as hymns are, they are simply modern hymns! But even songs that claim that title (like some by the Gettys) aren’t slavishly devoted to the melody. They don’t have the start/stop of hymns, but have more contemporary chord progressions/turnarounds between verses.
The best part of contemporary worship music is that I don’t have to sing along. I can just sit back and enjoy the entertainment provided by the praise singers.
Who said this generation can’t think?
Just like I don’t have to read my Bible because the pastors will entertain me with the biblical stories. 😇
Sarcasm not appreciated… This video is about structural differences that have nothing to do with your complaints. 😊
@@DavidWesley Sorry for the complaint. I am just sad to see the direction that the church in America is taking. It’s following the world instead of following Christ.
@@mrnoedahl Perhaps, but that’s not what this video is about!🤣
@@DavidWesley You’re right.
Preached Psalm 96 last night on how to write a new song. Like to hear your thoughts on it. It focuses on the subject matter of a New Song.
I’m not much of a lyric writer myself, so I’m afraid I wouldn’t be much help!
Thank you for the music. The key difference in hymns is those that come from Truth vs. those that simply appeal to emotion. The former are theologically sound. Truly inspired songs are a work of the Holy Spirit. Timeless, they appeal to people of all ages, faiths and cultures.
I’m afraid I must disagree. You are making an over-broad generalization and shifting definitions to suit your biases.
Contemporary church music is performance-based, not congregationally based. The average church-goer can sing any traditional hymn because the rhythms are easy and the melodies usually quite inspiring and memorable. Contemporary sacred music is often difficult to sing rhythmically because of constant difficult syncopation and difficult melodies that are too “rangey”. Hymns are all about the community and not the performer.
I agree with the wide vocal range issue and the more complex rhythms. BUT…. Please go observe some teenagers reproduce complex rhythms in their favourite secular songs. Or ask people my age (40’s) to sing complex songs from the 90’s - no problem. You may indeed see a shift in 20 years that a generation will have risen up with a better ear for rhythm. What they will probably have lost is harmonization, though.
Hymns are based on the words not the music. In hymns words are based on Bible verses, words are more important than the music.
There are many old hymns with poor theology as well!
@@DavidWesley Of course, that's why some denominations have responsible professionals who weed through the hymns and remove them or never include them. Teaching false doctrine in hymns is irresponsible - pastors need to be vigilant and not allow garbage songs in church.
I Do not like it when i can not hear the lyrics. With many contemporary songs, If i can not sing it then it is not very useful to me. It can not be from my heart if i can not put a WORD into it.
Hymns should lead you to a closer walk with Jesus. show me Jesus, show me love not clanging cymbals
That’s generally an issue of sound mixing on recordings or in church - not the composition itself.
You have a wonderful acapella voice God has instructed us to use our voices in instruments to him not piano it's in the Bible
There is nothing in the Bible against instruments, and plenty of examples of commands to use them. I hope you enjoy the instruments in heaven. 😉
I am sorry I disagree there my husband is a minister and I think I know the Bible quite well there is nowhere except for in Revelation which is talking of the heavenly realm of instruments I do not want to get into this dispute I think you have a good voice and I will pray for you
@@richardeggar2168 Please read the psalms and the history of Israel in the OT. My brother is a pastor with a PhD in Old Testament. That doesn’t make me an expert any more than your husband’s occupation makes you. There really is no need to pray for me on this issue, for which there seems to be freedom for the believer. I see nowhere that God took instruments out of worship at some point in time, removing a freedom that existed before Christ. That is antithetical to the freedom we have in Christ.
@@DavidWesley true however we follow the New testament now not the Old testament that was done away with Christ on the cross
So all the good things were abandoned as well? It was the burden of the law that cannot save that was done away with. God was pleased by instrumental worship, and there is no evidence that He is now against it.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, so I will share mine. Hymns tend to focus on reverence and commitment. Most hymns were written to be easily sung by large groups. They contained rich vocabulary and respect. The music or melody line could be played on the piano or other instrument since it did not wander all over like many modern songs do. Many modern soloists or bands are not trying to be this deep so they can incorporate less "large crowd friendly" styles such as erratic tempo changes and meandering vocals. This however is limited in spiritual depth and too often lacking in mature vocabulary. Perhaps because many of the CCM singers are in "the business" rather than sharing songs written based on personal experience. Not to imply that modern music is bad. Some is very good. Just know your audience and consider that more mature believers are likely to gravitate to more traditional time signatures, rhythms, and deeper lyrics.
I hate to repeat myself, but this video is not about content, only about structure. Generalizations about lyrics are very hard to make, because it’s all about sample size. Are you comparing 300 hymns from a particular hymnbook to 300 cherry-picked modern songs?
Oh brother :-(
Don’t want to elaborate?🤣
@@DavidWesley I find more attraction to music with better content regardless of new / old / rhythm / or other technicalities.
Thank you! Plenty of great new music chock full of scriptural content.
Many good points! However, I believe melody plays an equally critical role in both styles of song.
Critical, yes - but one is given priority in each.
Ccm or worship music popular in the local assembly sounds like a cheesy love song you hear on a secular radio station, the hymns distinguish themselves from modern ccm, and secular music. Isaac watts, Fanny Crosby etc. Has been remembered all these years over the new ccm.
I’m afraid your blanket statement is far too overgeneralized be any bit helpful in discussing this topic. It simply isn’t honest to lump decades of songwriting together like that.
A style of music that is usually used to express eros, feels wierd to me when used to express agape or phileo. It feels like I'm telling Jesus that I want Him for my boyfriend. Awkward! At the same time, I realize things can't just stay the same forever. At my church, we sing hymns, but we use some nontraditional instruments to accompany. That helps some. If you look at Mariah Carey's "All I Want For Christmas Is You" she uses lots of musical elements from traditional Christmas music (much of which was heavily jazz influenced, having been recorded in the 1940s and 1950s). The result is the only recent Christmas classic. Certain musical techniques bring out certain feelings due to their associations. Sometimes songs from African-American gospel tradition have been successful in having a sacred feel while having appealing rhythmic and syncopation elements. Could something similiar be done with jazz or a jazz arrangment for traditional hymns? Jazz has a Jesus connection through traditional popular Christmas music. It could work.
For the most part, style is emotionally and spiritually neutral. It’s only what the style means to you that really matters. I had a conversation with a pastor in Trinidad in 2005 in which I suggested that “chutney” music (an Indo-Caribbean style) might someday be used for the Kingdom. He shut that down quickly! To me it sounded quite innocuous, but to him it was a manifestation of sinful sensuality. As long as a style of music doesn’t cause someone to fall, it could very well be an appropriate vehicle for worship. Every style of music has been criticized for being worldly - hymns and organs included!
It can but you have to be careful of coherency. Stylistic elements communicate their own message. For example a heavy metal version of Ps 23 doesn't work. Take a listen to Keith Greens "Dear John Letter to the Devil" The music perfectly expresses the message of the lyric.
The way I see it, the only wrong way to praise God is half-heartedly.
Well my friend, do you think we can praise the Lord using rock music and worldly styles of music?
Remember the bible tells us, "Be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind"
Amen Eddie!
@@jmsmckellar All music is "of the world" (aka worldly). Styles of music vary over time and by area of the world (culture). The style of music itself is neither good nor bad. The key is the spiritual message that the music (instrumental + voice) delivers to the hearers. A piece of spiritual music can be spiritually "dead" or "alive" no matter what its style is. A person's preference in religious music style often relates to their background -- what they are used to. Us "old fogies" often prefer traditional hymn styles, but that does not make them "better."
@@cyber4eyes766 Well I kind of have to agree with James on this one. I would argue a "Christian" song such as Bethel's Deep Cries Out should not be sung in church because of its flaws. The song is implying that the "Deep crying out" is God's love, but what David actually meant in the Psalms is his pain and sorrow. I would say a song that is said to praise God but is biblically inaccurate is not a correct way to praise God. For example, you shouldn't sing a song declaring that God will take away all pains and suffering from your life if you just believe, because this is a terrible message that is not backed up by scripture and will lead others to sing the song to believe what the song is saying and could lead them away from Christ. A song is a mini sermon, so if a song is teaching incorrect theology, it should not be sung.
My beef with contemporary worship songs is that there are so many of them. And everyone wants to write one, so there are more and more coming out every week. And then you have some worship leaders who hear a song on the radio, internet, CD, etc. and they want to get the congregation to sing the song, even though not every song that a band/group does is suited as a worship song, and they want to do it in the exact same style as the CD, radio, internet, etc., which is a great style when you listen to it, but not always conducive to singing in church.
When we had hymn books, the number of songs were limited and people got to know the songs. These days, most people in church don't know all the words to all the songs. I have found real comfort in some of the hymns I grew up with due to circumstances in my life as of late. That's because I know the words, and they come rushing back to me. Just a few words or notes.
You could also go from church to church and still feel comfortable because this body of hymns was fairly universal between churches, even though they used different books. I visited a church in Saskatoon recently and did not know one song that was sung. I was so focused on what the words were and what the tune was, that I could not properly worship that day. That's because the body of contemporary music we sing in our church is different than the body of contemporary music that church sings.
Don't get me wrong. I like some of the newer music, but I wish I could get to know some of it as well as the hymns. I really like some of the hymns where musicians have incorporated different/modern instruments, changed the tempo, or some other subtle changes that give these old songs a more modern feel.
You should see my videos on song repertoire management and evaluating songs for congregations. Even a hymn book has too many songs for a single congregation to be familiar with all of them. We don't have to sing every song under the sun in our church services. Every church will have a blend of fresh and familiar that works best for them.
I'm sure there were plenty of hymns made in their time too, but many were local and didn't get "big"
@@DavidWesley But at least when there's a hymnal, you know whether the next note will be higher or lower than the one you're singing *right now* whether or not you can read music.
Being groove based may not be inherently bad, but I do think groove based music is more often misused. It's discouraging to sit through the "worship" part of a service when the music is so loud you can't hear the worship leader's singing because the instruments are too loud; it's not as though you have actual music as a reference. Then you look around and see that everyone has given up trying to sing along and the "worship" really is just a Christian music concert
@@paulag1955 Copyright is a thing.
Funnily though, when I go to a Chinese church, I can almost always find the lead sheet somewhere online lol
@@maxxiong Yes, of course, but I'm struggling to understand how to whether or not a church uses hymnals is related to copyrights.
Despite my BA in music and years of being a traditional (Lutheran and Catholic) church organist, this was the clearest description I have ever seen. Thank you.
Yes clear if you have a BA in music.
I love a church that uses both. I'm in my '70s and most my age want the old hymns and I understand that; I remember when I was young my parents hated this new music! Actually I remember how they got on board with the Beatles They liked The Beatles music! I love when a song uses parts from the older songs and the newer songs. Those really lift my heart! P.S. I love your videos! And congrats on that new baby!
I wish more churches, both traditional and contemporary, would use a blend of music styles. Many people enjoy food with varied flavors. Our spiritual music palate might delight in a blend of "flavors" among the varied songs sung. Perhaps adding a blend would ease "getting it" for varied styles. One can hope. :)
I love both. Christian music has such a rich heritage for hundreds of years. The newer work is adding to the richness!
To me, the biggest issue with contemporary services (and now many traditional services) is that no one is reading the actual music. Once upon a time, folks could pretty much read because they were reading the melody as well as the harmonies. Using just lyrics has really screwed up music education as a whole. Church was where most folks got the basics. Now, even the ones leading don’t usually know how to read musical notation.
Fair enough. But in the grand scheme of church history, hymnals with notes on a staff was only in certain countries for a relatively short period of time. They were controversial to many at first, then accepted, then the norm. It's neither good nor bad that churches move away from this. Singing with projected lyrics and songs learned from the radio is still a step up from having to rely 100% on memory - like Christians in much of the world do (and everyone before the 18th century or so).
David Wesley I partially agree. However, it has been a major step backwards in American churches to do away with written music, in my opinion. Sure, New is often controversial; however, sometimes what was controversial and new turn out to be major assets, and sometimes they don’t. However, like I said, I believe it to be a step backwards. I don’t have anything against projecting the lyrics on the screen, but it is also possible to project the written music... especially in traditional and blended services. This is also one of the drawbacks of contemporary praise and worship music - that it’s not nearly notated like most traditional hymns.
But there are several issues on both sides of the argument that I’ve learned as an organist, contemporary worship leader, and a minister of music. However, this is the one of the more glaring issues in the evolution of the church in my opinion.
You would need a very large projection screen to get words and music big enough to be seen by a large group of people! Contemporary worship songs are fully notated - lead/vocal sheets are available for just about every song I've led. But they end up being multiple pages long, because the song structures are generally more complicated than hymns - verses, choruses, pre-choruses, bridges, reprises. That's definitely not a step backward! The main reason why I think hymn books aren't terribly helpful any more is that you have to wait years and years for a publisher to decide what to include in the new book, and then you have to replace all your hymnbooks! Maybe if everyone could have the music sent to their smartphones...
David Wesley The step backwards is the non-use of written music. Also, most churches now that use screens have them often large enough to have a phrase at a time of notation also. Found a website today.
The issue with notating contemporary music, while it’s widely available, it can be more difficult to read for a novice due to what is often times more complex rhythms and intervals that aren’t as simple as the usual hymn-like structures that are based on the eight or the quarter which would be what would make it more difficult.
Syncopated rhythms are indeed harder to notate and read. There is a great deal of syncopation in music from outside the European church tradition, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. So much of what we value in music depends on our culture and experiences. That's why I try reserve judgment about the suitability of music for anyone outside my own congregation.
You have a lovely voice. No need to overdo it on the reverb.
I was aiming for overdramatic. :)
Repetition can be almost like a meditation to me - it puts me in a happy, worshipping place where I’m giving my heart to God.
Very well produced video and explanation . Still prefer the hymns, much more theological weight. I am from the Dominican Republic and grew up as a Catholic listenimg to pop and latin music with no idea of worship songs . When I came to Christ the hymns were a revelation to me.
I like all kinds of music, psalms, hymns and gospel songs. Contemporary, traditional, folk, country western. Congregational singing has been a mainstay of worship for about 600 years. Over that time hundreds of thousands of pieces of Christian music have been written. A large modern hymnal contains, maybe, 600 songs or hymns. I'm willing to wait until 2031 to find out which of the 1000's of ccm issued in 2021 has staying power. Meanwhile I'll be satisfied with the best from the ages. Yes, that will include maybe 50 ccm from 1960-2010, but the other 550 will be older.
Wow! I learned so much! As far as style, reverence is important to me.
This is so great and helpful. I’ve attended both hymn churches and contemporary churches. There are great songs in both styles (and also not so great ones). I’ve been a part of worship teams for 20 years and finally feel like I get the difference. 😆 It’s also helpful as I try to write worship songs. I think our worship team would have a very hard time being vocal led, but we’re also of a generation that was raised on folk rhythms.
I also find that when I play hymns on the guitar, I tend to change the timing a bit. Maybe I’m adding a little bit of a more familiar “groove”? Our worship team does this as well, which is a great way to bring in familiar songs.
David, thank you while i am 73 and raised on hymms, i very much have gone over to the other side, I find that today's Christian Contemporary music is very more more engaging, helps make a worship service, I have seen "concerts" that became worship services with 3RD Day, Chris Tomlin, Hillside United, they all started as concerts, ended up being worship services,, I have not heard anyone under 50 say,,...boy i wish we would do Rock of Ages sometime soon. But might want to hear The Solid Rock when Medleyed with Cornerstone. If we are to reach the hope of the future, we need to fire up the youth to accept God, Accept Jesus and accept the ever changing church
I find that after attending my church's virtual live stream, I hunger for more music and often call up TH-cam and sing along with some. I invariably choose a mix of hymn adaptations, inspirational, and contemporary styles. Today I spent over an hour doing that. It really makes my Sunday!
Im 23 and one of the main things keeping me away from most churches is contemporary music. It’s just pop music, nothing unique. If I want that I can turn on the radio. Traditional hymns sung in congregation make me FEEL something. They are UNIQUE to any other type of music. My 21 year old girlfriend feels the same way. I want to hear the hymns I grew up with in a country baptist church, not mediocre pop/rock.
Great post, nice job keeping an objective tone throughout. I love hymns and contemporary songs, both. Hymns, to me, seem more inclusive of the congregation. Contemporary is more exclusive. You're right in that melody takes the back seat. Still, some of the best worship I've taken part in is contemporary. I'm taking a backseat and letting the music and the words and the talent of the band direct my attention to God. Hymns don't have the power and punch that contemporary music does. But on the other hand, hymns have history and nostalgia behind them. And let's face it, a good portion of hymns have rock solid doctrine. You said it best. These two styles are two sides of the same coin.
Great content, David! I hope this video is seen, and embraced, by thousands. I've been a church musician (instrumentalist) since I was 12 years old, sometimes choir director, sometimes worship leader. Keeping an open mind, and listening to people with different tastes in music is key to remembering that whatever style we sing or play is first and foremost for the glory of and enjoyment by God. I so wish church leadership would spend a couple of sermons a year (for example the way many do regarding tithing/stewardship) and teach about musical worship. That could go a long way toward closing the gap between people with different tastes, as well as simply helping people better understand how to (the 'mechanics' of) sing in one style or another. Your video would make a great first half of a 30 minute sermon. Maybe you should volunteer to preach one week next time your pastor takes a vacation. ;)
Actually my church has a series of guest speakers from amongst the congregation every summer. They meet for months with the pastor as a mentoring group and get loads of guidance and feedback. We've had individual sermons, even a series in worship in the last two years. My brother is the preacher in the family, though. I'm just a guy trying to share what I've learned!
Great news about the summer guest speakers. And thanks again for sharing what you have learned!
In contemporary music you have some very Biblical styles and artists like Sovereign Grace and Keith and Kristyn Getty. You also have some more liberal adaptations of hymns such as To You O God All Creatures Sing, Creator of the Intertwined, God of the Women, As with Gladness Those of Old. Two of these are adaptations which are used in the New Century Hymnal, which is used by the United Church of Christ.
David thank you so very much for your welcomed and timely explanation!
You have given the Gold Standard!! It breaks my heart that most churches including ours has given way to GROOVY and those with bruised and heavy hearts don’t have anything to sing that they can recall an hour after the service…no melody driven music! It’s the Chinese-food analogy - you’re hungry and void in an hour! And certainly the JOY is totally lacking in our corporate worship!
Let’s pray pastors will listen to this and take heed and action!
God bless your ministry!
In my opinion, the main problem with a lot of modern songs (or even hymns) is how they are performed and sung. The way it's performed makes a difference in whether it's about the person playing or singing, or about worshipping God. When the songs are sung in such a way as to draw attention to the performer, the beauty is removed and it's no longer about worship.
But so much of how you perceive the performance of a song is conditioned on your own limited perception. When you see someone "rocking out" it may not be to draw attention to themselves. People in different culture, subculture or generation might not interpret the same body language in the same way you do. We cannot judge hearts. Unless you personally know the worship leaders over a period of time and understand what they're all about, misperception is bound to happen.
💯 agree!
Unless you're doing a really complicated hymn like Christ upon the Mountain Peak or Let All the World in Every Corner Sing. Either you have to play the entire melody or in some very annoying cases, you just don't do that hymn.
This was such a great breakdown. I don't know anything about music, but I was able to follow you. 😄
Thanks for this video. I really like how you've unpacked this! God bless you!
I've learnt some new insights and key differences between hymns and contemporary worship songs through your examples. Understanding the differences is helpful for churches and musicians that are more accustomed to hymns adapting their styles to playing contemporary songs. Thanks for sharing :)
werent traditional hymns songs once "contemporary in their day ?
Indeed they were! However there are some legit structural differences between the hymns in hymnbooks and much of what is sung today. That being said, there is also a "modern hymn" movement today as well, that strives to take the best aspects of hymnody and bring them more into the present.
As David eluded to the word contemporary in this context as a different shade of meaning than just at the current or same time.
Back in the old days there was no such thing as loud bumping speakers flashing lights fog machines.
Nuuu, dead space! XD Far too many times did a single individual in my congregation start singing before it was time because of confusing dead space
I was taught to include the opening phrase of the hymn in the introduction. This reminds people of how the song starts. For example, in Great Is Thy Faithfulness, you can play the first four bars then the last four (of either the verse or chorus). Another device that can be effective is to end the introduction on the dominant, and let the beginning of the song resolve the progression to the tonic.
I love both and both speak to me at different times. For a long time,I felt guilty about going to a contemporary service most of the time and then for advent, Easter and Palm Sunday going traditional. But I don’t think God cares and I’ve come to a point where I’m more annoyed with someone who insists that one way is correct.
I have no musical talent whatsoever but you made it so clear that if you don't understand something is wrong with you. I like both and do agree, hymns or contemporary whichever you use just worship God and don't focus so much on the people that sing it. Now if they are obviously me me me then turn your back and move along.
What a beautiful way of explaining the differences. You make great sense. I was driven here basically for the a capelas. Now I am attracted to the words as well. I also love the comments section. I have learned so much from the commenters, plus I have a feeling David that you read almost all of them.
Amazing explanation, thank you!!!
Just the keys the songs are pitched in; these young boys with their countertenor voices, showing of their squeaky ranges, and wondering why no one sings along.
Great explanation! I learned so much. Thanks!
I love this brother's ways. So humbly appealing.
I love my local church but I do wish we would go back and forth between the 2 styles (Traditional and Modern). I feel like I’m missing out on a lot of classics. Hearing the same songs that come on CC radio cheapens church a bit though we change up arrangement certainly. I’m not sure what I would be asking for the musician to do when I suggest some traditional music. I know it’s not the most important thing by any stretch.
Personally a lot of CC music has fallen out of favor with me due to the repetitious nature and to the same extent because we’re trying to emulate a particular version sometimes it cheapens the music for me.
I like all styles of music generally.
Every congregation must find their own balance between fresh and familiar, simple and complicated, serious and lighthearted. Because of the differences in composition styles, not every praise band will be able to do both styles well, which is one reason they may stray away from hymns. I definitely don't go to Christian radio to find new songs to sing!
Yep, pretty hard to have mystic sweet communion with those whose rest is won if you throw out everything (musically and liturgically) that is more than 15 years old.
I think there's a bit more drilling down needed to get to the big difference. It's not that hymns are "melody first," it's that they are largely "words first." The music we commonly sing with "A Mighty Fortress" likely isn't the original music. In many cases, the music was wrapped around the words. "Just As I Am" is another example. There are times when words are applied to existing music, but the reason that works is because that music was probably originally wrapped around a different set of words, and the same regular metrical structure allows a new set of words to be applied. It's quite common for the lyricist and composer to be completely different people. So hymns come across as "melody first" because the first thing a composer has to do is figure out what to do with the words that are in front of them, which are primarily handled in the melody.
As a composer myself who collaborates with lyricists in a way that is similar to hymn writing centuries ago, I might have some harmonic ideas when I write music for a given text, but I have to figure out how to get to those harmonic ideas melodically.
In contrast, a lot of contemporary music is "music first." Often, the words and music spring forth together. You can see this in songs where the verse is little more than spoken word layered over music (The A section of the verse of "Thrive" comes to mind). The songs center around musical moments and getting from musical moment to musical moment.
One is not necessarily better or worse than the other. There are really bad hymns and really good contemporary songs (and vice versa). The hymn style of writing may have an advantage in conveying content because it tends to be words first, music second (as opposed to words often being written to fit around a musical notion, which can get awkward), but neither is guaranteed to be "good."
Thanks for your input. I disagree with the “words first” idea, as that ignores centuries of melismatic music, up to and including the “Gloria” portion of Angels We Have Heard On High.” I’m not referring at all to how songs are composed but how they are structured as performances - this is what’s most relevant in a worship service.
Contemporary music also has more independence between the melody and the accompaniment, which can have layers of rhythm and syncopation that are very different in complexity and energy. You can have furious guitar strumming supporting very slow singing, or even the reverse. Syncopated melody over a straight accompaniment - or vice versa.
Brilliant analysis of emotional engagement
Thanks, David. I've found myself on both sides of this debate and this is the best, most well thought out, explanation I've encountered.
I love this explanation. I so want both to be part our worship.
Thanks so much, This really helps
It’s hard to sing along when the song leader just repeats lines randomly. I like being able to follow along in a hymnal.
That's assuming that it's random!
David Wesley
True!
How about really hard hymns like Christ Upon the Mountain Peak (Shillingford Tune)
Or “And Can It Be That I Should Gain”? There are always outliers. The hope with hymns is that you’ll get them with repetition over the years. Contemporary worship leaders know they’ll be using songs for a season and discard them. Less time to learn them, and possibly less motivation to really know them well.
Praise and worship is like listening to a peter,Paul and Mary concert!
This is a great video and I love the goal of melding the hymn to contemporary worship songs. Chris Tomlin does that a lot, and I have a worship CD from Women of Faith that does that too. And enough with the idea of ‘old people like hymns’! I happen to be 64 and I love contemporary worship music! I grew up in the 60s with the Beatles, the 70s with the Bee Gees and the 80s with rock, hip-hop and disco, and I love it all! I am a fan of the metal group Red. Probably the only style of music that I don’t much care for is jazz, because there doesn’t seem to be a start, a middle, and an end. But again, that’s just my opinion.
An example of God's perfect plan is Psalms. Songs preserved without music. I'm a firm believer that music is written from the sounds we're surrounded by. Listen to contemporary music, written post industrial, and contemporary to the electronic and digital age. You can hear the rhythms of what we are surrounded by. Hymns, many written prior to industrial noise, have that vocal melody first I believe cause there was not any of those rhythmic sounds we here today in life. I agree that there is no moral significance from one Era to another. I do believe that expressing music with the sounds that surround us does ad energy to our expression.
The thing I have with some of the new music, it is that it doesn't focus on the people that are the actual performers of worship. The performers are the congregation, the audience is God. This was an epiphany during this video ... "dead space" can (for a mature Christian) something that can be filled with prayer, but worship is active. It is not watching someone else "perform" it is the individual performing the worship to God.
Not that I don't like some contemporary music in worship ... I do. But I would say that those that have *any* dead space are not where they need to be. Putting a background vocal in so that the instruments are not central to any part of the worship song I would call critical to a congregational worship element. The only time I can see having non-participatory points in music during worship is time that is inherently prayer time. But then I'd want that to be such that the person is in fact praying, not distracted by music ... even if the music is there and is a work of great beauty.
But to sum it up ... If God is the audience, and the congregation is the performers, the music needs to be structured around that completely.
I like when I listen to contemporary music in acapella format and the right rendition, they can sound more like it classic hymns.
Contemporary music could evolve to be included in hymns over time. But some contemporary songs can’t
There are enough structural differences that will determine what will last.
Spot on.
Love it. I hear a lot of trashing of modern worship music, and always thought it unfair as well. I love it all!
Modern trash devoid of feeling
From a pastor, thank you, thank you!
Go further back in history. Congregations split over the singing of Psalms vs. Hymns.
Brian Crocker Yep. But I’m not interested in digging up dirt - just explaining the most helpful distinction between the two. When I do hymns, I usually rearrange them to a groove-based format. For example, The Solid Rock needs a 4/4 bar at the end of each chorus to wrap around properly.
Contemporary "worship" (which most "ain't") was instituted to be "seeker friendly." Yeah - no. Worship, which really is not at all based in music, but rather in one's heart, has NEVER had as its focus an appeal to the masses. While Jesus taught large groups, at times, those occasions were NEVER used as an outline for what a worship service should look or sound like. The New Testament "Church" met in homes and were small groups. The Gospel is not an appealing message to those who are in the world, and all of the loud guitar, drums and "'worship teams" performing in front will NEVER put sweetener on it. Christian music, in its purest form, is like a passages in the Word which focuses on the attributes of God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and of Jesus. I'm one of those who will never enjoy or appreciate modern "worship" which consists of six notes, sung over and over and over with three or four lines of text. In the beginning, I loved songs based on Scripture like, "You shall go out with joy and be led forth with peace. . ." or "This is the day that the Lord hath made, I will rejoice and be glad in it." They are singing the Word and they are joyful. There was a melody, not a repetition. Rejoice in the Lord always, we are admonished, and that's what worship is about. Worship "teams" turn me OFF and AWAY. Yes, a bad attitude is what I have, but I now worship in a small church that still selects music carefully and truly expresses worship. Yep, hymns. (And I realize not all hymns are doctrinally correct.)
There are plenty of songs being written today that are plucked right from scripture, and performed tastefully. This video isn’t about how songs are performed, but about underlying structure. I’m not a fan of blaringly loud music either. If you’re going to leave a comment, please try to engage with what I’ve actually said. :)
I'll say this. Degrading newer music for repetition is lazy. There are good older songs with repetition. There are good newer songs with repetition. Repetition is not the reason that some newer songs fall short.
Exxxxaxtly!!
Believe it or not I agree. I used to quip that the contemporary choruses reminded me of Weird Al's "This song is just six words long" but then I realized that the problem was much deeper than that. After all Mozart's "Alleluia" is only one word long but it does have a good deal more notes. :D
Maybe you have already answered this, but I didn't hear it clearly explained in the video and haven't seen it in the comments I have looked at so far. What exactly does the "groove" in "groove-based" refer to? All I could think of was the expression from the '60s of certain things being "groovy" (both music and a lot of other things) and the way I understood that doesn't seem to fit this. If that's it, how does this fit? If it's something else, what is it?
I used a few different words besides “groove” to explain. Basically, it means that the rhythm and feel of the accompaniment structures and powers the song instead of strictly the melody.
I love that you used Ever Be as the opening of your video(and yes I knew this before you told us😁) Bless you brother for being kind and seasoned with your words and wisdom. Many on both sides of the traditional and contemporary worship song "debate" can be unkind. May God continue to bless your voice, your ministry, and teaching.
They have to tell a pianist how to do an intro? Wow! I was church pianist for decades, & I simply knew how to do it, from hearing the previous church pianist do it. It’s intuitive, & doesn’t need to be highlighted or anything. Then again, our church sang both hymns & worship choruses. The church I go to now never sings hymns. I go there because the Word is preached, but I worship in song at home before I go, as they only perform one song. That’s the extent of the singing, & the music is so loud that I can’t tell if anyone in the audience is singing or not. It’s truly sad.
I didn’t say the intro *had* to be marked off or used, just that it’s a helpful hint. As for the volume of music, that’s completely irrelevant to this video, I’m afraid. I’m only speaking about structure of songwriting. There is no need to perform either style in an obnoxious or unhelpful manner. I also think personal worship time helps people get over frustration with style issues in corporate worship. Unfortunately, most people don’t take the time to do that, so they can get really vexed when they don’t get “fed” musically.
The driving force in a hymn in the melody, the singing... The driving force in contemporary music is the beat, rhythm and rift.
This statement, perhaps unwittingly, highlights the flaw in modern church music. The focus is no longer the message, it is no longer driven by the worshippers, i.e. those who would sing the melody. The focus has shifted to the instruments and the beat. Congregations do not need participate, the amplifier is louder than they are anyway. The congregation is not using the instruments, they are an afterthought, an audience to the performance on stage.
Instead of bringing unity to the body of christ, the congregation has been shunted aside.
There was no unwittingness about it. People raised on contemporary music still feel at the center of it. The accompaniment is like a warm, familiar blanket they can sing into, without feeling stiff and formal. I neither said nor implied that the message was secondary in contemporary music. Melody does not equal message.
Here is an observation from one who's church congregation sings mostly acapella. Hymns are designed to be sung in 4 part harmony. Hymns stand up well when sung acapella. Hymns are usually structured more simply to cater to congregational singing.
That’s basically the point of the video, though the harmony is an added bonus to the song structure. The thing is, contemporary songs with a structure that exists beyond the singing puts that singing within a greater context. It’s like a stained-glass window on its own vs in context on the wall of a gothic stone church. The window is great, but the window dressing adds something of its own.
I believe acappella music should be sung in church, a group of voices singing in unison without instruments keeps all focus away from the individual and towards God almighty.
God commanded the use of instruments - the craftsmanship of the instrument and the skill of the performer also point to the Creator that made it possible. If instruments are a distraction, is it not possible that’s issue for the hearer and not the instrument itself?
Leading worship - like worship itself - is not like falling off a log. It takes learning, dedication, and mosts of all, a consciousness that worship is for God, led by the Holy Spirit, and MUST engage the congregation whole-heartedly. If your congregation is not singing enthusiastically, your congregation is not engaged in worship. The performance-oriented sensibility of most contemporary Christian "worship" services mimics the culture and excludes the congregation. The focus is on the performers, and performers naturally engage in "coloratura", singing words in a manner which is not the same as they are pronounced in normal, spoken conversation. These customizations may be fine in a solo, or in a recorder version of a song, but they are emphatically NOT appropriate for congregational worship. The congregation is not a bunch of soloists, and they cannot be expected to follow the improvisations that a "worship leader" may choose to insert in a song. It is a very self-centered form of leading a song. Very. And, most contemporary musicians - singers or instrumentalists, are utterly blind to this problem. It is a BIG problem. Again, leading worship is a serious discipline, it should be selfless, and a congregation must be TAUGHT to worship, gently, with patience, and with real direction, coming first from the pastor. It takes time. And humility.
I agree with what you say about worship needing to lead to engagement. Of note, those leaders you speak of are generally backed up by a number of vocalists singing in a manner the congregation is meant to emulate. You may not realize it, but you’re effectively denigrating an entire cultural expression of worship. The Black Church in the U.S. has a strong tradition of using soloists in a way that European-descended Christians may fine unruly, cacophonous, or improper. But if you look at the congregation, it will be engaged - not by trying to emulate the soloist. Contemporary Christian music is not a monolith. There are strands of cultural influence of many flavours and origins. Some may not seem helpful to *you* as a worshiping congregant, but that doesn’t mean they’re not helpful for others.
Very well done explanation!
Would have less issues with a lot of contemporary music if it was presented with the musical notes, as hymns are. I grew up singing hymns and learned music theory through it, but now it's just words on a projector
But that has nothing to do with the songwriters or the style itself. Those resources are available, should your church choose to use them!
They are both awesome! My church even writes an album of contemporary worship songs every year! The title track of each one is based on a fundamental scripture of our faith
Dave,
Great run down on the technical differences between hymns and CCM. I agree that knowing where to start singing in a CCM song can be awkward to people who are not familiar with the popular CCM songs that are sung in churches. I would hasten to add though that the core of the debate is not style so much as the origin and philosophy behind the CCM movement. The other cause for angst is the trend in churches to eventually eradicate or severely minimize hymns (sung and played in the traditional manner) when they decide to incorporate CCM. The pattern that I have witnessed in our Baptist churches goes like this: Traditional to Blended (60% Hymns/40% CCM) to Blended (60% CCM/40% Hymns) to CCM totally. Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work! 🙂
I wasn’t trying to encapsulate the entire debate, just pointing out an objective structural difference that has consequences for congregations. It’s also a big reason why teams of musicians will struggle with one or the other. It’s not always reasonable to expect worship teams to be able to switch back and forth easily. A guest speaker wants me to so Victory in Jesus for a closing song this coming Sunday. I am rather unenthusiastic about it…
@@DavidWesley Yep. So true. Thanks for the reply. 🙂
“The melody is subservient to the beat.” I think that says a lot about contemporary worship music.
You might be taking that a bit too far. I’m talking structure of composition, not performance or instrumentation. It just means a metrical 4/4 time that doesn’t stop to breathe.
Modern churches are not built for sound. They are built like concert venues that require super loud music.
Good catch. there is a reason for that and not a good one.
So informative!
I think many issues we're not covered. Or not explained clearly.
This video has a VERY narrow focus on musical structure. What issues are missing?
This was very educational! Thank you so much!