David Wood Is Delusional About The Resurrection of Jesus!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- 9Stephen Woodford and I dive deep into the debate between Christian Apologist David Wood @apologeticsroadshow and his critics. In this video, we thoroughly analyze and dismantle David Wood's claims about the Resurrection of Jesus. We've even brought in a scholar cited by David Wood to debunk his conclusions, exposing the inconsistencies and special pleading in his arguments. Don't miss this engaging and insightful discussion!
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Thanks to the brilliant scholars Richard C. Miller & John Domonic Crossan!
Richard C. Miller's book Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity amzn.to/4c2SsFy
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chapters
00:00 - Introduction
04:47 - David's case for Jesus' resurrection
10:47 - Was Jesus dead?
43:20 - Historical facts about Jesus
1:17:51 - Was Jesus alive after his death?
1:38:39 - Jesus' story developed over time
2:11:37 - Jesus' appearances after his death
2:55:37 - The Hallucination Hypothesis
3:33:44 - The Disciples sincerely believed Jesus resurrected
3:55:50 - People reject the resurrection because of naturalism
4:28:45 - Miracles happen, and they disprove naturalism
4:58:43 - People reject the resurrection because of the implications
5:22:57 - David believes he has proved Jesus' resurrection
#mythvision #Mythology #Religion
One desiring eternal MythVision Salvation please help with the chapters/Timestamps!
You cannot out psychologize the Bible for God not to throw you into hell for all eternity. In other words, you cannot come up with a good enough excuse here and now, so you will not be able to on judgment day. If you say you did not want to be born, God is going to say you should’ve been born again, that means become a Christian so that’s not gonna work. And there are no other excuses try to think of one. So now you know for the first time in your life, that the Bible is smarter than you and it is a steel trap, smarter than all of mankind, What should you do then? So at least investigate and look to see that these things are true, because right now you just learned the Bible is smarter than you, and you will be accountable for your life on judgment day before God!
Prophecy, the Bible is 27% prophecy, that’s future history written in advance. God‘s really sticking his neck out to get it cut off if he’s wrong, but he hasn’t been wrong about the thousands of prophecies that were fulfilled, so he’ll be right about the end of the world prophecies as well and you’ll have no excuse on judgment day for not looking for truth!
Caveat: you cannot look for God in times of chaos says Isaiah 45:19, so you better do it now. In other words,You’ll be too worried about your own survival when chaos hits, than your eternal destiny!
Statistic probability of 40 writers writing the Bible with zero margin of deviation, proves God wrote the Bible through the 40 writers!
God authored the Bible!
DNA does not auto encrypt, the code writer is outside of the code of the 3300000,000,000 lines of computer code in the human genome of our DNA! So who wrote the code to such sophistication?
1,000,000 seconds is 12 days, 1,000,000,000 seconds is 32 years! That’s the difference between 1 million and 1 billion!
One person’s DNA could fill the Grand Canyon up to 50 times full of books. John 21:25 “I suppose everything Jesus did, the world wouldn’t have enough room for the books telling of it.“ this verse would be fulfilled!
Psalm 139:16 “in my members you have written many books“!
Psalm 139 is about the human body!
Energy 19 basic wash 😮 enjoy Jesus energy wash starting ❤
@@jjphank Actually, you can
@@americaeaustraliaepius4338 Prove it
I would welcome a session with John-Christian Eurell about Mark transforming Paul, Hebrews and 1 Clement into things for his Jesus to say. Tom Dykstra, David Oliver Smith, and Richard Carrrier are also up on the topic. It complements Dennis's mimesis material: Homer and LXX for plot, Paul, Hebrews, and 1 Clement for dialog.
When I suggested to David Wood that his argumentation against Islam would work equally well on his own faith, he called me a troll and threatened to block me.
Believers: can you see what we mean by "one god further"?
He needs what John Loftus calls the outsider test of faith.
If Elvis both died and was seen after his death then he resurrected; And by extension was a magic Jewish zombie demigod.
Elvis died and people say they saw him afterwards. I rest my case
Well, at least Elvis was real and existed.Jesus, on the other hand neither of those he wasn't real.He didn't exist😮😅😅😂🎉
I remember as a kid every time in the checkout aisle in the grocery store seeing those stupid magazines..."Elvis seen in UFO" 📰
@@Habanero777 ^^^^Ladies and gentlemen, the miraculous non-existent atheist "Jesus Mythers" who Rationality Rules said don't really exist in a substantive way. Yet you'll find endless comments on TH-cam videos just like this one everywhere.
@@TheProphetofLogic I miss the Weekly World News and BatBoy! One issue said that Japan was going to blow up the Moon to stop werewolves!
Elvis is the King 👑! King of everybody! King of everything! - Mojo Nixon😂
what a line! Apologetics is "saving the Saviour" !!! amazing!! clap clap!
Derek out here looking like a Hillsong worship leader with those frosted tips 😂
5 and a half hours, this is fucking insane 😂😂😂
Love it
Let's not get our hopes up that anything in this video will persuade David Wood, but some honest, open-minded seeker might see this and follow a fair, honest conclusion like the critical scholars.
He prob won’t change his mind but even ancient scholars said we can only control ourselves not others. He’s free to believe as he chooses and take his own path. Just my opinion.
@@jmc8076I'm takin flight
Atheist is launching personal attacks.
If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it enough.
5+ hrs video in itself has implications
He said he didn't even watch the much shorter one about him in a recent stream. He's aware. He's just a coward.
When you go after David Wood the earth dances with joy, the sky chears, and the birds sing. 😂😂😂
Birds are singing, flowers are blooming.
I seriously gotta hire a lawyer to sue this podcast. Like where were you when i was a christian? I truly hate how i love this show
Funny that you did not turn to Jesus but decided to swap one ideology for another. Truly what they say every Christian does only lip service to Jesus but that's about it. Worshiping graven image and mammon and then when they figure out it was all a lie and having imaginary friend is not working they go into another extreme by denying reality all together, denying that God created you, denying that you are a spiritual Being, Denying that Spirituality is reality and so on and on. And all you had to do is honestly ask Jesus for help...
Another sad story of turning person from one set of lies to another set of lies.
@@JessicaSunlight maybe u can just mind ur lane n say hi to ur pantheons
@@mugowanjoroge Your pantheons and your ideologies are a lie. I do not worship lies be it of the past or of today.
@BenJones-ee7pt There is only one God's reality, one spiritual reality of life, I'm not talking here about a belief system, specifically a religious belief system.
Gautama Buddha and Jesus are part of one God's Reality.
Jesus Christ has appeared to many, their earthy background is irrelevant. Gautama Buddha has communicated with wester people with no issue either.
I don't have any god, I do not advocate for any god, I do not promote any god. I do not advocate for Christianity, I do not speak for Christianity I do not endorse any Christianity. I speak about spiritual reality as it is which is God's reality and about Spiritual Being known as Jesus Christ whose teachings were perverted and sewed into Christianity for a specific purpose later on.
oh I wouldn't be any of the things you have mentioned, because I'm a spiritual Being who comes into embodiment and Earthly things do not define me not to mention I do not worship ideologies or subscribe to some earthly belief system, since they are all out of touch with reality, be it materialistic myth or Christian or Islam or what have you.
I do not endorse ideological wars either. They were all designed to set brother against brother, sister against sister. Your attitude clearly shows your need to attack the enemy of your belief system ~ christianity or perhaps anyone who claims spiritual side to life, your preachers and your masters taught you well.
Hope this helps you in some way and you will find strength in you to set yourself free from the liar of this world, so that when the prince of this world comes to you he has nothing in you.
@BenJones-ee7pt However productivity lacks in non-Christian and non Jewish countries, over the last 5 centuries almost everything we have today was created and invented by Christians and Jews, everything from the airplane and airplane companies, to the founder of computing, to health care, to Ivy League schools. Most success was all founded in western nations and Israel, so I wonder why that is, it’s not a coincidence. Even the Asian countries with highest population of Christians like South Korea and Singapore are among the leaders in technology and innovation.
God sacrifice himself to himself to forgive us from himself
Trinity in nutshell
Don't know why Krishna gets mentioned,no one claimed any ressurection, it is Christian claim, not Hindu, Hindu understanding is different about Krishna
*This is all just ANOTHER offspring of several cults that have happened before. It's just that more people have fallen for it*
The bold isnt helping you. It does you make you seem unbalanced though.
@@jamesmaybrick2001 isn't everyone?
@@jamesmaybrick2001you are projecting so hard with this.
GOD BLESS THIS CHANNEL
Irony 😂
Amen and awomen
When it comes to science, David Wood promoted at 1x on his defunct channel Irreducible Complexity Hypothesis by Michael Behe. This goes against what 99.95 % of scholars of the Biological Sciences say about Evolution. Quite hypocritical indeed...
Tacitus says Christianity is a superstition, Christianity just ignores him saying this hoping you don’t fact check what Tacitus was saying. Tacitus in no way affirms the existence of Jesus.
@@wiard He is not saying he didn’t exist or that he did exist but he is saying Christianity isn’t true and a superstition. And we know Jesus’s promises failed which the bible proves based on what is verifiably written in it just like we verify what Tacitus wrote and said/didn’t say.
@@Jesus_Lied_ReadTheBible He is acknowledging his existence and death.
Read Mark 13:24-31 Jesus said that the generation that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give light, the stars of heaven will falls etc. Not his current generation.@@Jesus_Lied_ReadTheBible
Here is a rebuttal from John MacArthur:
"The notion that Tacitus' reference to Christianity as a 'superstition' somehow undermines the historicity of Jesus Christ is a gross misrepresentation of the ancient Roman historian's writings. In fact, Tacitus' account in Annals 15.44 provides one of the most significant non-Christian references to Jesus Christ in the ancient world.
First, it's essential to understand the context of Tacitus' statement. He is describing the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD, which Nero blamed on the Christians. In this passage, Tacitus writes, 'Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.'
Tacitus' reference to Christianity as a 'superstition' (superstitionem in Latin) is not a denial of Jesus' existence, but rather a reflection of the Roman view of Christianity as a foreign and suspect religion. In the Roman world, 'superstition' was a term used to describe any religion that was not officially recognized by the state. This label did not imply that the religion was false or mythical, but rather that it was outside the mainstream of Roman religious practice.
Furthermore, Tacitus' statement about Christus (Christ) is a clear reference to Jesus of Nazareth, and it confirms several key details about His life and death. Tacitus affirms that Jesus was executed during the reign of Tiberius (14-37 AD) by Pontius Pilatus, which is consistent with the New Testament accounts.
It's also worth noting that Tacitus was not a Christian and had no vested interest in promoting Christianity. His reference to Jesus is a passing comment in a larger historical narrative, and it is not intended to be a comprehensive or sympathetic treatment of Christianity.
In conclusion, Tacitus' reference to Christianity as a 'superstition' is not a denial of Jesus' existence, but rather a reflection of the Roman view of Christianity as a foreign and suspect religion. His statement about Christus confirms several key details about Jesus' life and death, and it provides one of the most significant non-Christian references to Jesus Christ in the ancient world.
As the apostle Paul wrote, 'For we did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty' (2 Peter 1:16). The historicity of Jesus Christ is well-established through both Christian and non-Christian sources, and it cannot be dismissed by misrepresenting the writings of ancient historians like Tacitus."
References:
* Tacitus, Annals 15.44
* 2 Peter 1:16 (ESV)
* John 18:31-38 (ESV)
* Isaiah 53:10-12 (ESV)
* Luke 22:32 (ESV)
* 1 Peter 1:23 (ESV)
@@Bible-ChristianTacitus writes in latinn about criminals who followed Krestus ( common greek slave name. All sources we have about "Iesous" are in greek. So you have a cult of Iesous in the stories and Tacitus writes about Krestus. So only an idiot would not notice the difference or a blind follower of a cult who sees his cult everywhere. 6:29
Just starting this vid. I'm so excited with this team up.
When it comes to the historical-critical method applied to Islam: 👍 When the same method is applied to Christianity: "Pff, what a bunch of mythicist Holocaust deniers!" It's the same story in the dawah scene: anything that challenges Muslim historiography is seen as Orientalists trying to destroy Islam. But when it comes to Christianity, you have to accept the latest hyper-critical scholarship. Absolutely insane double standards.
A great observation of how ideology shrinks the brain. One rule for me, another for thee.
Islam is the greatest of decievers tho buddy,you can hold hands & walk off into the sunset,& everyone would celebrate,Islam is a much bigger problem now.
One of the many reasons I hate apologetics. And what's funny is David statement on scholars not realising the irony especially since apologetics goes against every academia possible and does what he hates about scholars
It's the other way around.
Love you guys. However I actually would like to see more atheists take Mythacism seriously or at least look into it. I too just accepted that Jesus Christ was a real historical figure, because all the "scholars" told me so. When I finally decided to independently look into the evidence I was like - you have to be kidding me. The case for Christ being a real live historical figure is SO incredibly weak. If he wasn't a religious figure of such import, it would be totally acceptable to dismiss him as a myth. Like Paul Bunion. Sure MAYBE that's based on an actual historical person that just got exaggerated over time, but we don't say for sure he existed. Why do "biblical scholars" use a different standard of evidence? Well I know why - most of them are believers.
Richard Carrier makes such a compelling case, I can't intellectually now accept that Jesus was a real person. It's honestly just too important to do that. We have got to stop allowing lies to infest our culture and society.
If you said the same thing a thousand years from now, Chuck Norris would be a myth.
@@sideoutside We have multiple corroberated accounts from people who knew Chuck Norris personally and saw him. We have documents he signed. There are government records that attest to his personhood. We have mountains of evidence he was a real person.
You're just wrong. We have nothing for Jesus like this. None.
@@sideoutside We have thousands of independently corroborated first-hand contemporary accounts of Chuck Norris existing. We don't have a single ONE of Jesus. I can't believe you even said this. Not to mention piles of government documents etc etc.
@@sideoutside Nope. Chuck Norris is well attested. In fact, I'd say better attested than Jesus
This was a wild first video to watch from this channel. Saw you in a paulogua video and really admired your passion. I too am deeply interested in the scholarship and myth traditions of religions across cultures and really love how you are able to tue in and reference other dieties off the cuff. I hope I can get this good at it someday
We must believe our parents when we are young right? But when we grow up we are supposed to be curious and learn and be knowledgeable adults right? Religion should be the first thing you put in its place which is dust bin, it’s really bad stories that follow bad stories.
I made it through! You all make a great team. This was excellent, but also painful to watch. His argument was a defenseless rag doll that you all brutally stomped on for 5 hours. It's mind boggling that he thinks those are good arguments. I guess he's never heard of alien abductions or any other mass hysteria. Bizarre.
Damn, 5 hours. Btw can you make videos on David Wood supposed slam dunk on atheists? Id also like to see you respond to InspiringPhilosophy's reaction to mindshift's video or any other of his videos really on christianity
Derek has the Tom Cruise hair going on. Lol!!!
Rabbi Tovia Singer says to Reverend Jesse Duplantis: You keep talking like that and we will stone you Jesse
This video is long but I’m going through it, at 1:42:02 Derek says Dionysus turns three jugs of water into wine, this is an inaccurate statement on the account
In Elis on the eve of the feast three empty jars were set up in the temple, and locked up, which were then found full of wine on the next morning. (End quote)
So very different from the gospels
Even if we assume Jesus' resurrection is true, I would like to ask why Jesus committed suicide in the first place? Didn't Jesus claim in the gospels that he laid down his life out of his own will. Isn't this suicide? Why does a biblical god authorize such a suicidal atonement when it is him who created all of the creation and then decides that his suicidal atonement is the only way to save his own creation from his own judgment? I mean is this god crazy?
Let's go Derek!! Love your longer videos
I don’t know which is more interesting, the video or the comment section. 😂
There are some super strange people following this channel.
People are strange when you're a stranger. -- The Doors
Ooga booga buddy🤙🏽
I criticise Islam, but people like David Wood are in some way a concern for Islam criticism as a whole.
Kudos to you again and as usual. The quality of this channel is just supernatural. ❤
You didn't even watch the video.
David what is bold l; They have a fatwa on his head for a lot of money, and yet he goes to speakers corner out in the open, with a Koran shirt on, so they can’t stab him!
@nsbd90now I am right now, I opened it as soon as I got the notification. The intro was just so spot on, and this is at least the second content about DW and his cognitive dissonance, which has been published here recently.
@@LISLAMSPIEGATODAUNCANE Give us your detailed review in six hours! lol!
@@nsbd90now why not? It's my best company for my solo trekking sessions
Wood says: We saw it we were there! Derek: I don't think so! 😅😅😅😅
This is a tour de force guys, you've kept it interesting and informative for 5 hours+, very well done!
5 hour videos are crazy man
Im not a christian but I can tell you one thing, David Wood is an absolute legend and I love him.
Oof. Poor taste, mate.
I am "that" atheist. I don't think that Jesus ever actually existed. Thank you Dr Carrier.
I have an ancient aliens documentary you will probably love.
@@michaeljames4509 The Church of the Subgenius warns us "Jesus and JHVH-1 are space aliens who still threatens this planet!" Most of us have no reason to believe (local) ancient aliens or Jesus existed. Same like Mohammed.
@@michaeljames4509YOU will probably believe it.
as you believe in a Jesus without much evidence.
@@Marabarra94 do you truly think that there is as much evidence for the existence of Jesus as there is for the claims in ancient aliens documentaries?
Thinking has nothing to do with direct experience.
People are also delusional about the existence of a tomb.
people are delusional about the jesus ever existing
YES! AND delusions pile upon delusions ... Joseph of A saw that Jesus had died and went all the way across a Jerusalem crowded with a hundred thousand pilgrims during Passover to search for Pilate ... AND Pilate was readily available and eager to speak with him ... AND voluntarily surrendered the body of Jesus so it could receive a decent burial (Pilate was well known to be a kind and caring gentleman)... AND JOSEPH went back across town, through all the crowds, to get the body that just happened to be lying there at the foot of the cross, undisturbed.
Isn't it much more likely (even if Jesus was historical) that the Roman guards took him off the cross and tossed his body down the hill where dogs were waiting and devoured the corpse. So, even if Joseph did exist, it would have taken him hours to leave Golgotha, wait around for Pilate, then return and search for the body, which would no longer exist where Joseph had last seen it. And there would have been nobody around to inquire as to what happened. The guards were gone and the Jews would not want to hang around where three men had just died. Golgotha was, by Jewish standards, an unclean place.
The whole story is a fantastic literary creation that serves a theological purpose only: Jesus was crucified ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE (as Paul states), and not according to history.
@@ardalla535 exactly re. paul.
the 'letters of paul' (the ones that aren't fake) we now know were written around 50ad. It's completely incredulous that he would be saying the things he is saying (and more importantly, not saying the things he isn't saying) if this jesus dude had died and resurrected not 20 years past
@@ardalla535The Romans executed criminals after the Jewish holidays and let the bodies hang until they vanished. So there never was anything but may be a public dumpster where a few parts ended. When you rebelled against Rome you got executed and got no burial
@@haydenwalton2766I think David was right now
The one thing I love about mythvision is the passion and energy that hosts come with each time no matter the topic
There really wasn't much healing. How many people were healed by jesus? Not that many
~59:00 Wait, Eastern Orthodox Christians don't believe in a literal resurrection? Cursory googling does not seem to support this.
Thumbs up from me, guys.
D. Woods hypocrisy is almost unbearable.
Please include timestamps 😢😢😢
This was great to listen to while gaming and reading (it's 5 hours and it's a weekend), I was reading some of Paula Frederickson's (properly misspelled) work and it really got me thinking about this Resurrection as well as the surrounding and contemporary narratives. Big ups, mate.
Paula is confused about mythicism. She thinks that because everybody in on the founding believed in a crucifixion, it must have happened. But they believed in a crucifixion in the firmament by demons that literally none claimed to have witnessed.
This video needs to go viral , please viewers share this as many times as you can . I have done my share already .
Its amazing what you are doing guys , keep it up.
Also at 50:00 Derek speaks and alludes or hints that much of what was said of Jesus from Roman historians was more or less just hearsay but not direct or by independent sources
That’s incorrect
Here is just one example
Tacitus a trustworthy source for historical Jesus and is also considered independent
Tacitus is a trustworthy source, he was a carefully articulated historian who wrote about Jesus in his final work, "Annals," which was written around 116 AD. Tacitus was a respected Roman historian and senator by Rome who was born in 56 AD and died in 120 AD. In "Annals," he described the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome. Here's a summary of what Tacitus wrote about Jesus and the Christians in "Annals" Book 15, Chapter 44:
Jesus, called "Christus" by Tacitus, was executed by Pontius Pilate.
The name "Christians" comes from Christus.
Christus was executed during the reign of the Roman Emperor Tiberius.
After Christus' execution, his followers were persecuted in Judea and even in Rome.
Early Christians were persecuted in Rome, and Emperor Nero used them as scapegoats for the great fire of Rome in 64 AD. (And quote)
So for brevity let’s ask chatgpt as to whether Tacitus is considered an independent source for Jesus
Chatgpt is Tacitus considered by most to be an independent source to Jesus?
Yes Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate is considered authentic by scholars and is considered an independent Roman source for the non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.
Tacitus would only have had access to stories of origins for the movement through records and anecdotes regarding the criminal prosecution of Christians for confessed arson causing the Great Fire in Rome, that is, 64-68 C.E. under the reign of Nero. During that litigation in Rome, some significant records would have been kept and accessible to Tacitus’s research. There, as expected, would have been some brief notes on the stories Christians were parroting regarding the origins and founder of the movement. No doubt the record would have drawn the line between the criminality of the executed founder in their testimony and their own criminal stunts in Rome. As a Latin-West aristocrat on the Roman payroll, such projects as his Histories and his Annals would have been team collaborations based in the capital itself; nowhere else would have housed a sufficient proper library for such a project. The library, however, would certainly have not have had mundane criminal prosecution records of Procurators in far-flung provinces. So, Tacitus can only inform the historian of Roman characterizations of the early cult in Rome, their criminality and their own story of a prosecuted founding figure. Apparently the group was recognized as a menace to Roman civil society, a “pernicious superstition” prone to acts of crime.
@@RichardMiller-ym5jc Thanks, I need to re-read your post a few times, I think it seems we agree on some level on Tacitus and his historical model and reputation. We might just differ on what level or quantity of hearsay are in his writings. I’m not implying there is no hearsay at all, but when it comes to items such as the persecution and arrest warrants for Christian’s, along with Jesus being arrested, executed and crucified for treason, these items I think we agree are part of a Roman historical judicial process, in which Tacitus would have been extremely careful in documenting and recording.
@@starshiloh we lack evidence of such distant prosecutions making their way into Roman archival records. Jesus in the narratives never really had a trial.. no defense.. He was just sent to the gallows like other trouble-makers in the Roman East. Tacitus mentions nobody else in that region being executed for sedition and only raised the matter of the founder as an explanation for the criminal bent of his cultic followers in Rome; they were acting out the pattern of their figurehead by setting the fire. This would have been in the testimonial records of those prosecuted under Nero, the very context of Tacitus’s research in that segment of the Annals. He was not there attempting a historical review of executions in Roman-governed districts in Palestine.
St Augustine wrote that 'that which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist.
Why Christians defend resurrection as if they were presently there next to Jesus?
22:23 People find Jesus in prison, because that's where Jesus lives.
There was just so much to unpack, and it makes sense why the initial video just focused on what it did. I really wish that David Wood would see things through the spotlight and microscope he puts Islam under, because I really don't think he would be convinced of it anymore. If he willfully chooses to not see these things as you both pointed out, then it is just pure willful ignorance with the intent to hold onto his beliefs due to emotional reasoning as you both also pointed out.
David is going to have a tough time with this, and I really hope that Apostate Prophet is able to help him see it as well. I really hope they watch this together.
Thanks my fellow apes, that was one awesome analytical piece ❤
Again, brilliant stuff. I am working on a book regarding a similar topic.
"If the dark that is within you, is your light; then truly how dark, that darkness is."- Jesus
Why don
Five hours? Ain't nobody got time for that!
After 1,900 years, the Gee-buss cult is taken down by a handful of TH-camrs. That goofy cult can’t survive in a world where electricity lights the night, ppl can fly anywhere and read any book. Glad to be 4th Gen non-religious, but I’m here for the show!
Id like the dude to address divine hiddeness. The god of the OT was hellbent on making sure everyone knew him and seen him, constantly, very egotistical. Why would that same god decide he now wants to hide?
This is an important video.🎉 Ty for it Derek
Thank you Mythvision!
Derek do you think you will do an in depth study of Jesus in Old Testament prophecy any time soon,would be very interesting and gets right to the heart of the matter.Have not been able to find any videos on the subject.If you have done any please point me in that direction.
@miker3607 Check out Rabbi Tonia singer... There are no references to Jesus in the OT
Derek's level of knowledge with regard to early Christianity is remarkably high.
We are MythVision.
That Rick Miller guy...
Anyway, lovely video even if long. About half way through, but excellent thus far.
If Jesus died for our sins, doesn’t that mean that if he is no longer dead then our sins have returned? Also how much of a sacrifice is it if you rise up to heaven afterwards and you know that you are going to rise. However if he took the beating and pain of being put to even though you know that in a few days you will be in heaven chilling with Dad. To me it is at least more noble for a regular person to give his life for someone not knowing what death is or where he will afterwards. Yet he is willing to die for another person. 😇
@TorianTammas
Here is the text of Tacitus with reference to Jesus. Tacitus was not the only Roman historian who mentioned Chrestus or Christus. Suetonius did, so did Pliny the younger who was also governor of Bithiny in Asia Minor now Turkey.
Then after all, the Jewish Council of Javneh also mentioned Jesus as it sent out emissaries around the Mediterranean world telling them not to listen to Jesus'disciples because he was not the Christ...
Tacitus on Jesus.
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nerp fastened the guilt and inflicted the mosy exquisite tortures on a a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace, CHRISTUS from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our prefects, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in ROME where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular." TACITUS - The Annals, book 15
I didn't see KRESTUS as a Greek name or he would not be writing Christians but Krestians. If you think otherwise please post your reference or excerpt from Tacitus where Krestus is mentioned.
Here is Suetonus on the same topic:
"Emperor Claudius banished from Rome all the Jews who were continually making disturbances at the instigation of one Chrestus" Suetonus- The 12 Caesars.
Here again I see no mention of Krestus a Greek guy.
Pliny the YOUNGER ON the Christians:
They(the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed days before it was light when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to CHRISTUS as to a god and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, never commit any fraud, theft or adultery...
Pliny the Younger in a letter to Trajan.
WHAT DO YOU SAY NOW CRACKPOT ?
⚠️ Stoning to death was the punishment for blasphemy. Why didn’t the Jews in the Bible just stone Jesus? Apologists would argue capital punishment was forbidden under Roman occupation. Which sounds fine until you recall John 8 which had Jesus rescuing a woman from getting stoned to death for adultery. It’s silly to think a people angered by occupation would go running to Romans to punish a “fellow Jew” for breaking Jewish law! ❌
There are so many ridiculous and nonsensical issues with this narrative it is rather difficult to keep track of them all. I am still trying to figure out how they are claiming he was sacrificed when he was obviously publicly executed. Yahweh requires the sacrifice must be "perfect" or "unblemished" and must be offered by someone as a burnt offering during a ritualistic ceremony. None of this happened in any of the gospels. Jesus was beaten and scourged, then publicly humiliated and debased after obviously being convicted of a crime. How was he considered unblemished after he had been so debased? Who offered him to god as a burnt offering and when? Never happened, even per the bible itself.
@elephant_888, great points. Also, Stephen was stone in the book of Acts, however there were several instances where the Jews were about to stone Jesus, and just like Sir Robin, "Sir Jesus ran away." Most likely, the whole idea of him being crucified (just like the idea of him being some kind of animal sacrifice where people eat his blood & flesh) was an irreligious protest against the Roman practice of crucifixion, as well as animal sacrifices (which was practiced by Romans and Jews.) It's also a prefect excuse for turning away from 100% of the Jewish holidays, despite being commanded in the Torah.
Makes sense, when they got out of egypt, some of them wanted to come back. Maybe in the same way the relied on the ones they hated to exact their revenge on Jesus too
Jesus wasn't stoned to death because it was the ROMANS who executed him. He was executed for sedition... for claiming (either directly or indirectly) to be "King of the Jews".
@coreyc490, you are correct that he was killed by the Romans, but check out John 8:59, 10:31-32 , and Luke 4:29-30 where Jesus ticks off religious Jews until they're ready to kill him, and then he repeatedly runs away & hides, like a coward. If you believe every exact word of the New Testament (which btw is impossible, since there are so many different versions of the same story,) you would obviously conclude that the Romans killed him because he called himself "King of the Jews." But going by the text, he never did this at all, nor did he ever call himself "God" or even the "Son of God." In fact, it was his followers who called him these things, and when on trial before Pilate, he was asked if he was King of the Jews, and Jesus' reply was "Thou sayest." Well, that's a liar's way of saying "no" for the official record. What I see here is a New Testament, Gentile effort to remove not only animal sacrifices from the Temple, but also the ugly punishment of crucifixion & basic observance of the Hebrew commandments, given by the one he calls his "Father." This is why in the so-called "Sermon on the Mount," he abolishes several of God's commandments, and replaces them with others that he likes better, including blessings for the meek, the downtrodden, and the poor, whom he claims elsewhere that "you will have with you always." He's inserting a terrible, non-Jewish double standard for how Jews are supposed to carry out their religion. Anyone in their right minds would reject this on its face.
Amazing video, thank you 🎉
How can anyone talk about this shit for over 5 hours🤣
Just came across this podcast and I love it, for me there’s no religion that can compete with the feeling you get from ciritcally scrutizing it’s origins, explaining it in human terms and painting a picture thats more true to reality. What you end up with is just more fascinating.
David wood acts so smart that he cannot answer or has any clue what Derek had gone through or studied so far.
The thumbnail 😂😂
Pagans all over the world used to have a new year festival in spring by different names according to their language and culture
56:00 you cant nail anyone to a cross over 35kg. studies were done in the 1940s.
Three days ago someone said to me that the increase in intensity and frequency of the northern lights nowadays is a sign of the end of times. Go figure! 🤣
Can I have the Cliff note version?
I have already found many inaccurate statements on this video, I will expose it by making it super simple and showing each one individually
Jesus resurrected Friday from off the cross - not Sunday which was a quickening "risen/rising" from the grave. Two different concepts.
Bro i love your vids but they are two long. Its dawnting in a busy life to sit and watch it all. 30 minute episodes would make ot more bite sized and accessible id probably end up watgcing it all if it came out in parts
Derek's "magic trick" at 1hr 16m was awesome. Best part so far.
At 1hr 45-46min, is it illegal to say the word, "rape/raping?"
3:24:11 I think Paul proves people will endure persecution for beliefs not personally seen or experienced.
What's being described here:- Zechariah 5?
... Anyone?
Do people really sit through these entire 5 hour + long videos?
Tiktok brain
@@IlIlIIlIlIlIlIlIl 30 seconds vs 5+ hours? You’ve got too much time on your hands, and probably too much lubricant as well.
I like to save the long versions to my Facebook and listen to it throughout the day and night 😚. When I was 4 years old and heard about a talking snake I knew it was a scam. If the snake told Eve not to eat the cheese cake I might have been a believer 😊.
Thorny subject for religion. ; ) If places in biblical text tell reader this is allegory or parable then why not the resurrection? Did Euro (at time of writing) names like Peter, Paul and Mary exist at their time and geo placement in text? More accurate cultural names for that time/area changed by scribes/authors to fit certain ideas? Edit: 35:45 Close friend’s relatives were victims of the H word/war and the family had property stolen as added insult. No doubt some ‘chicanery’ and things we may never know took place in secret as in all conflict incl blurred lines but IMO atrocities and victims like any war were real.
I like this, but it seems like the ads are doubled. Sorry.
And ads starting in the middle of sentences is very annoying.
TH-cam ads are becoming intolerable.
Read Heavens on Earth by Michael Shermer particularly the chapter soul stuff ...a googo of googoplex of resurrection complexities.Minds of antiquity had no conception of what has to happen for a person to be resurrected
Wood's account of Roman crucifixion is misinformed and misleading. Josephus records the fact that crucifixion victims could survive.
Tks guys doing job
(blush) Am I the only one? When Paula Fredrikson draws a line from 'crucifixion' by Romans in the gospels back to 'crucifixion' by archons in Paul I just get stopped. What? I can draw lines between Romans and Jews, Romans and Greeks, Romans and Canadians. I can draw lines between archons and Martians, archons and zombies and archons and cyclopes. Dr Fredriksons line makes no sense to me. I feel like I missed an entire discussion.
4:46:00 4:58:57
2:53:30 2:57:30 2:59:10
I usually like the content here but there were several wrong things about Jewish and Christian theology that you misspoke on but otherwise it’s a good watch as usual ❤ I understand that we’re looking at things black and white instead of reading why they wrote what they wrote
Derrick is quite garrulous. I am at the point I fast forward when he starts name dropping, or is just verbose. This 5 hour video will probably take an hour to get through after skipping all his rambling.
What did Miller mean when he said 1 cor 15 wasnt cited for centuries? Irenaus and Tertullian and others mention it prior to Chrysostom.
Discussed the alleged “creed” in 1 Cor 15. Did you dig around and find an exception? First, would love for you to show me that (for my own research). I seriously doubt you’ve found anyone applying 1 cor 15.1-6 as a historiological argument or proof that Jesus rose in actual history. Second, even if we were to dig through thousands upon thousands of pages of early Christian texts and to find an exception, this would merely prove my point… that this was not a central idea structuring early Christian thought and devotion. You’d merely end up making my point. Tertullian was located in third-century Carthage, so distant in time, geography, culture, and Christian society as to be nigh-irrelevant.. but do please share.
@@RichardMiller-ym5jc I didn't mean any disrespect Dr Miller I just really didn't understand if you meant the entire passage is not cited before Chrysostom or if it's not cited within a particular context. I don't even believe it's a creed personally but I was just asking for clarity. Because I know it's a slightly shorter form in Marcion's text of 1 Corinthians and I found it Irenaeus and many others prior to Chrysostom
@@RichardMiller-ym5jc for Irenaeus it's in book 3 chapter 18.
@@BeyondDoubtTheology I certainly appreciate the reference. In the video we were discussing that the sentences in Paul’s letter were not:
1. Described or used as a “creed”
2. Structuring central historiological arguments or proofs in support of early Christian faith and devotion
Irenaeus only pops a miscellaneous citation in passing jumbled with 20,000 other citations. The argument was not that Paul’s letters were unknown or not read by early Christians, rather that the arguments pushed by modern literalists that early Christians structured their religion around historical claims of eyewitnesses to a raised Jesus are just not at all substantiated. Nobody seemed to anchor any reason or confidence on those sentences (e.g., the “500 who saw him”.. ). So, it appears this passing flat quote goes nowhere in that direction, merely confirming my point in the video. I will bet money your Tertullian reference also goes no distance toward structuring a historiological argument. Even if it did, however, you’d then have found but one reference in the entire original 4 centuries of the religion, a reality that merely further galvanizes my case.
btw.. I do not read your response as “disrespect”.. I value your honest engagement and feedback, truly.. and appreciate your research. 🤛🏻
@@BeyondDoubtTheology in fact, should you find anything in early Christian writing that does handle the text as a creed and/or adduces any historical argument around appearances and witness, that is, in reference to 1 Cor 15.1-8, please share that with me. I do not mean this as a dare or even as a challenge. I would be in your debt. I personally have only found one such historiological line of argument for a raised Jesus, and that not at all in reference to 1 Cor 15.
David graduated from google university.
@ex-muslimtestimonies001And he still lies and misinforms for his grift. Is he still blaming Charles Darwin for using a hammer against his father's head? Oh....he is a Likud party propagandist these days.
I don't even think he made it that far.
First learn some manners then post a comment......if you don't know anything about David wood then keep your mouth shut.
“Devine” child sacrifice
5:37:39 completed. Excellent job, it does not seem that long. This was very entertaining, almost like a miracle crusade. Of course, every knows that only real miracles come from Zoroaster. Greetings from a 3rd world country to all of you sons of Marduk.
whats the failure/fault of Jesus? just a normal question 13:08
*Jesus is clearly speaking to the disciples and gives a timeframe for when the Son of Man would come.*
"Jesus sent these twelve out, charging them, saying: Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not go into a Samaritan city. *But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.* And going on, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven has drawn near" (Matthew 10:5-7)
“Truly I say to you, ***you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes”*** (Matthew 10:23);
For the *Son of man* shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; ***and then he shall reward every man according to his works.***
Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here will not taste death*** before they see the *Son of Man* coming in his kingdom (Matthew 16:27-28)
Truly I tell you, ***some who are standing here*** will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27)
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Mark 13:30)
*He says that the coming of the Son of Man will be accompanied by:*
The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Then will appear the sign of the *Son of Man* in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the *Son of Man* coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Matthew 24:29-34)
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the *Son of Man* coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. When you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
Truly I tell you, ***this generation will certainly not pass away*** until all these things have happened (Luke 21:25-32)
He also falsely prophesied to the high priest, the Sanhedrin and Nathaniel.
*Jesus falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin*
Jesus also falsely prophesied to the high priest and the Sanhedrin (assemblies of either twenty-three or seventy-one rabbis appointed to sit as a tribunal)
You will see the *Son of Man* sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and ***coming on the clouds of heaven*** (Matthew 26:64) (Mark 14:62)
Except the high priest and the Sanhedrin never saw Jesus sitting at the right hand side of God, or coming on the clouds of heaven, or any such thing.
*Jesus falsely prophesied to Nathaniel*
Jesus also falsely prophesied to Nathaniel when he declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”
Jesus said, You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that. He then added, ***“Very truly I tell you, you will see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man*** (John 1:50-51)
*Nathaniel never saw any such thing. Neither did anyone else.*
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also look up:
Watch *Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet, Historical Lecture - Bart D. Ehrman*
*"End Times - Evil Bible .com"*
*"The End of All Things is At Hand - The Church Of Truth"*
*"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"*
*"Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists"*
(Tim O'Neill is a former Christian and is familiar with most of the Biblical scholarship. He's been studying the scholarship and history for decades)
*"Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return - Black Nonbelievers, Inc."*
Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity.
*“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress
*"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53
*"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
*"Did Jesus Fulfill Prophecy? | Westar Institute"*
*"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"What Do the Apostles’ Deaths Prove? Guest Post by Kyle Smith. - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
4:09:21 4:31:00
Horus sun god born 25 December 3000 BC
Three kings
Three stars
12 disciple's
So let me deal with the logic of the arguments since I know where the appearing guest is going.
We are trying to ascribe a function of the posthumous appearance of Jesus.
Before we do that we need to define that in the Christian literature the Jesus is Jesus Christ, and the definition of consequence is Paul’s definition, which Paul is not esoteric about, even when he pretends to be, he is still exoteric. Paul never met Jesus, his messianic (the Christ) Jesus is a product of his mystic imagination. This is not interpretation, Paul tells us in 1 cor 15 how Jesus appeared to him and he tells us how he interpreted that. All Christianity is derivative in one way or another from Paul’s accounts, even when they contradict it.
So let me stop the argument about the immediate interpretive meaning of Jesus resurrection right there. We are not talking about a gentile view among the participants, but a Jewish view, second we are not talking about common peasants but mystics.
And so now the meaning of the resurrection has to be dragged into the post-Danielic/Maccabean period, more specifically Herodian kingdoms/Roman Prefect/Procurate period.
We need to see certain things here. The Kings of Judea and Galilee were rapidly losing power. During 66 AD King Agrippa II actually ran away from Jerusalem, the “Sicari” of the revolt killed Ananus son of Ananus, Hannah Ben Hannah. That’s the guy who killed Jesus Brother and the Jerusalem Evyon, was booted out of the high priesthood, he himself was killed for trying to negotiate with the Romans.
If we cannot get the immediate interpretation correct then any further interpretation is a depost-facto apologetic. Herod Antipas was headed for disaster as he provoked a war with Perea. King Philip had died and sided against Antipas. And we have these groups, like the Jesus cult, that are highly skeptical of his motivations. So much so the cult is skipping around Herod’s territory to avoid him. Meanwhile, while in the Decapolis Jesus and his disciples are practicing their mysticism. We know this because of the highly attested reappearance of Seek, Find, . .. .attached to the Jesus cult.
The first thing we need to dispose of is the passion Narratives, they are all based on Mark and this is just literature with scattershot verisimilitudes. We can know this as fact because of the facts it gets wrong about the Sanhedrin, because of the contradictions it creates with Paul’s account, and because there is nothing in Q that backs it up.
So now we are into most likely events. Jesus, Yeshu of Nazara, came to Jerusalem after holding up in the Caves south of Pella. He spends time on the mount of olives by day and returns to Bethany at night. At some point, well before Passover he gives instructions to the disciples and they set out, probably to return by Passover, in hopes that by the time Passover came so would the messiah. A few women and a couple of disciples stay behind. The year is 30-33 CE, Ananus of Seth, father of Ananus of Ananus, is deposed 2 decades earlier by the Roman prefect, he was born between 30 and 20 BCE, so he’s about 50 to 60, he’s an old man, but a behind the curtains player. He was close to the Herodians, and the prefect found this to be unlikeable, so he replaced him with Caphias who is his son in law, both are Sadducees. Herod informs Ananus of the appearance of Jesus at the mount daily and the crowds he gathered, but once the disciples leave it was a relatively low risk operation to pluck him out at night before he returns home. They tortured him for sometime to try to coerce him to recant, he did not. The punishments got so brutal he was near death, they then convinced Pilate to execute him so the blood would not be on their hands. Pilate agrees and this was sometime before Passover. Meanwhile Peter had fled, in fear of his life, but the women stayed behind. When the disciples returned they found Jesus was dead, and after Passover they began a search for the body. It seems likely people warned them about inquiring about Jesus and so they search other followers and left Jerusalem. Back at Pella, they began again their practice and had visions. These are not unexpected, since mystics see dead people.
Matthew gives a piece of information on top of Paul’s 500, though some have fallen asleep, Matthew claims some believed, this means some did not. But what did they believe. Paul considered at least some members of the disciple group to be anti-Christ because they did not believe as he did. Moreover we learn later that probably the Jerusalem Evyon split into two groups, those that accepted Paul’s teachings, the Nazarenes, and those that rejected his teachings, the Ebionites.
So here we must deal with the interpretive problem. We MUST grab the bull by the horns before proceeding with subsequent interpretations. The history informs us that this was a mystic cult and they had visions. But what exactly did they believe the visions mean. The Q source, Greek sayings, does not use Christ once. Not once. The epistle of James appears to have been rewritten by a Greek Christian only mentions Jesus in the Christ context twice, and thus just could be interpolation. I don’t go for the Paul killed James bunk, but I also don’t go for the Lucian harmonization, either.
We have a conflict in what people believe and the Nazarene interpretation is unlikely the earliest or the early majority.
Thus we have a situation where the answer the Christian’s give about the meaning of the resurrection was probably not on the lips of the disciples, who were probably just involved in mundane mystical communications with the recent dead. In fact the early strategy of Peter as leader ended up with his replacement by James, considerably more conservative with the law and mystical practice. So he in effect is clamping down on more extreme interpretations, and for good reason, the Herodians are still looking for subversives of their power. It is true that the mysticism in the organization lead to rapid radiation of “Christianity” but these early subjects went a plethora of directions. The Christianity we have today is an interweaving of some sub-sectarian ideas at the exclusion of most others. That construct looks nothing like first century belief. Thus we really cannot use these to tell us what the first disciples believed.
To make clear, the gospel of Luke is from the second century and includes sources on the resurrection that are not cited and we don’t have. These extend to Acts, also sources we don’t have. Mark, despite being literature has no resurrection appearance. The gospel of Matthew adds to this but also adds fantasy’s like walking zombies and angels sitting on rolling stones. The gospel of John’s intent is not historical but mystical and its trying to associate the being in the real world with spiritual being. Moreover it appears to be an equivalent of the secret sayings gospel but contrasting a gentile with Jewish perspective on Jesus. All of these contradict each other. The two letters of Peter are pseudepigrapha one based on the Enochic Jude. Thus we have no solid strands on the resurrection back to the original interpretation.
The closest that we get is the epistle of James which is denying Paul’s Christianity in favor of a fully Jewish version in which they are still preparing the way for a coming Messiah, a messaged that a Greek writer doctored up.
And so the point about Christian interpretation has no valid premise to start with, the original interpretations were all made by Jewish mystics and we don’t have any connection to later gentile Christianity (or at best unproven connection to later Christianity)
If you want to know what goes on in the minds of mystics you need to be a mystic. Barring this use Esoterica and Angela’s symposia.