Steve, I feel your pain my friend. About 9 years ago I built a custom 3'x6' Shapeoko 2 CNC (precursor to the X-Carve), solely for the purpose of cutting playfields. I'm ashamed to say it's only caused agony for me, I've never made anything usable with it. Lack of rigidity, uncontrolled backlash, fried spindles, machines of this class really are hobby grade. I'm still determined to make it functional, and for the past few weeks I've been working on yet another rebuild/upgrade of it, exorcising the last of the Shapeoko DNA from it. So in spite of your trials and tribulations, be proud of what you have accomplished, that's an impressive whitewood. That said, it's probably worth it to farm out the final whitewood cutting to a local shop with a pro CNC, especially since that X-Carve is too small to do the whole playfield in one pass. Any tiny misalignment will cause artwork registration issues. One last thought - I am surprised you are using Fusion 360 to layout your playfield. I do a lot in F360, but it feels like an inefficient tool for this purpose. You should be able to use regular 2D cad software or vector software, and Adobe Illustrator can be really good for this, since you can use it for both your artwork and your layout. Also, make sure whatever software you use can produce files in a compatible format for local shops to cut - I speak from experience having received low-poly shapes cut in expensive wood when a file format I sent wasn't ideal.
Yeah I'm working with my local makerspace to see if we can get an older (circa ~2000) precix cnc machine running - if not then I've got a local cabinet maker who is willing to cut it for me 👍 As to fusion vs AI or something else - honestly I've just not used Illustrator much - I chose the Photoshop path back in college and so I've been using fusion for this instead - it's been pretty great all things considered 🤷
Paul, if you don't mind, I'm using a Shapeoko 3 at work and was considering getting the 5 for myself. Overkill when I could probably outsource it or go to a makerspace, but I like having my own tools, etc. I basically wanted to ask if you had an opinion on the newer ones at all, or what you would recommend instead? I've been looking around and the 4 (I guess 5 was too new for the reviews I was reading) seemed to be the winner overall, without considering much more expensive professional ones at least. It looks like the newer ones have solved a lot of the issues you and I have dealt with, but I wanted to see if you came across additional reasons to avoid it that I might not have yet. Thanks!
@@mathaeis Ownership of the Shapeoko brand changed. Inventables, the maker of my Shapeoko 2, now makes the X-Carve machines. So the current Shapeoko 4 & 5 (& 3 I think) have nothing to do with my version, completely different company. If you're happy with the 3, then the 5 is even better. Myself, now that my machine is running on linear rails and ball screws, I would never go back to v-wheels or belts ever again. Also, getting a proper controller, Acorn CNC, with reliability and backlash control, is a game changer. One last thought, if I was buying new today, if be looking at the next step up, at companies like Mill Right. For a little more money, they make Shapeoko look hobby grade. Good luck!
Man, I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that CNC nightmare. I have one at work that I'm in charge of, and I feel like I've run into all the exact same nonsense that you are talking about and oh boy does it get old, haha. I'm glad you were able to find solutions over time though! Also, you mentioned parameters in the last video about the diffusers, and I'm sure you are aware of this, but those will really help when it comes time to clean up your play field file. For others that might not be aware: parameters are, well, parameters that you set in Fusion to indicate the exact measurement for a particular thing, so that when you start dimensioning your lines and shapes, you use the parameter variable instead of an actual number. That means that later on when you need to go back and make a change, you change it once in a table of parameters, and if you modeled things properly (parametric modeling), you *should* be able to update the entire file with every instance of that item all at once. A good example here would be if Steve wanted to change all the 1" inserts to 1/2" (or maybe even just correcting the cut by a fraction of a mm to get a better fit). He could change the "circular insert size" parameter and any circle whose diameter was given a measurement of that variable (instead of manually typing a number in) would update automatically. The parametric modeling angle comes in when you consider the relationships of all the different parts. For instance, say that one of these inserts was 2 inches from something else, but for whatever reason that distance was measured from the perimeter of the circle instead of the center point. So when the circle shrinks, the center would move since the point that is locked down is whatever part of the perimeter is 2 inches from that other object. You can get some really funky results if you don't plan in advance (and to be clear - it's really, really easy to just start modeling things and not think you're going to care all that much later on, so I don't blame anyone for not doing this, especially for hobby projects, as I'm extremely guilty of this in 99% of my files). But generally any time you are going to have repetition and iteration, it can be super helpful. Just think about moving on to a second pinball machine and having this really great set of measurement templates to start from once you've learned everything from the first machine! Anyway, I hope that information is useful to someone! :D
Looking great, and I like your willingness to trial, and error. You're quite aware of my dropped, and broken playfield, but you encouraged me to keep going, and I really appreciated that. This machine will be epic, and I really think you've got the layout strong. Keep digging Steve, and hopefully we can both play each other's homebrews someday.
Thanks Mike! I appreciate the support and encouragement from you as well! I really love the homebrew crowd, so many awesome people! I'm planning on bringing my machine to pinball expo in Chicago in October, maybe we'll be able to meet then? No idea if that's close to you or not tho
yes I suspected that it would be very complicated to machine the inserts on a non-professional cnc. I myself made 2 cnc large volumes for my business a few years ago and I did not use them for my playfield and preferred the solution with the jigs and the router because I suspected that I would not have a convincing result. Thank you very much for this feedback because despite everything I had doubts. happy to see you in shape and ready for new adventures. in all the result seems nickel. congratulation 
Great to see you back Steve!!! Would love to see some mpf tutorial stuff. I have been struuuuuugling and I'm hoping you are smarter than me and can explain it to me like I'm a newborn haha.
So glad you’re posting again Steve! Stick with it and don’t get discouraged. I too have had many bad moments with my CNC but, when you look at the output, it really makes you realize that it would be completely impossible without one. And I think your current whitewood looks great-when you start using that higher quality plywood and better bits you will get even better results. Can’t wait to see it after you’ve glued in the inserts!!
Thanks for sharing your learnings and success/pains! Are you still having fun? Are you coming up with ideas where you have considered building another one?
Yes, I am having fun again! I really need to figure out a way to save up for my own cnc machine tho 😅 and yes, I have ideas for several other machines actually!
Wow, what an immense learning curve. Sometimes that's all a guy can do, too - work through the process and find the trials before they're reached. But what a ride it's been so far! You're getting to a great place, though. Would it be a lost opportunity to have a light in the middle of the star-arraingement, though? Some mega bonus mode? Backstage Pass sounds AWESOME, by the way. Let me know when you're ready to start working on the printed manual.
Looks good , even if it was tough getting here. I’m not sure on your appetite for buying a CNC, but I have my eye on a BobsCNC. Somewhat cheaper than an xcarve and big enough to cut a whole playfield at once. 🤷♂️
Yeah I really want to get one but I'd need the machine plus a place to put it, no room anywhere currently ☹️ one day I'll build a work shop on the side of my house maybe
Hope this doesn't stress you out--I mentioned this on one of your earlier videos--but have you thought about what happens to balls trapped on the stairs if Player 1 drains, and then it's Player 2's turn? I'm guessing you won't leave the balls on the stairs... or if you do, you'd have to plan to allow players to share the stairs locks... because engineering a way to load/unload stairs would be kind of a headache :) You're doing great! Thanks for the new video :)
Yeah I think I replied to your other comment but yeah I'm leaning towards just coding in logic for a virtual lock count that whenever one players turn ends, the stairs get reset and the other player gets a fresh staircase, with the game knowing how many you had locked on prior turns etc - definitely going to take a bit of thought to make that work cleanly tho
@@thepinballroom I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think in one of the machines I own or maybe just one I played a while ago, a locked ball becomes the property of the current player. So if you don't take advantage of it, the next person reaps the potential benefits. So maybe that could be a solution as well if you wanted to instill a little more spice in potential competition?
I have an idea for my own pin. I'll be designing circuitboards and writing the code for it. I have a theme and a layout. I just have to focus on the CNC cutting, which I have no current experience with
No worries, we're all here to help you! I don't think hardly anyone really is an expert at every step of this journey, we all have strengths and weaknesses and help each other out, so no worries you got this 👊
@@thepinballroom actually, I've made arcade games before. I now develop casino games, but pinball is my first love. I can design and code a fully modern pinball. I designed a slot machine/pinball hybrid years ago with Claude Fernandez, who used to work for Williams. We both worked at Games Of Nevada
Depends on what's close to you, but the primary public spots I frequent are Quarters, Kiitos downtown and there's also an awesome new location "the LAB" up in Ogden
Steve, I feel your pain my friend. About 9 years ago I built a custom 3'x6' Shapeoko 2 CNC (precursor to the X-Carve), solely for the purpose of cutting playfields. I'm ashamed to say it's only caused agony for me, I've never made anything usable with it. Lack of rigidity, uncontrolled backlash, fried spindles, machines of this class really are hobby grade. I'm still determined to make it functional, and for the past few weeks I've been working on yet another rebuild/upgrade of it, exorcising the last of the Shapeoko DNA from it. So in spite of your trials and tribulations, be proud of what you have accomplished, that's an impressive whitewood. That said, it's probably worth it to farm out the final whitewood cutting to a local shop with a pro CNC, especially since that X-Carve is too small to do the whole playfield in one pass. Any tiny misalignment will cause artwork registration issues.
One last thought - I am surprised you are using Fusion 360 to layout your playfield. I do a lot in F360, but it feels like an inefficient tool for this purpose. You should be able to use regular 2D cad software or vector software, and Adobe Illustrator can be really good for this, since you can use it for both your artwork and your layout. Also, make sure whatever software you use can produce files in a compatible format for local shops to cut - I speak from experience having received low-poly shapes cut in expensive wood when a file format I sent wasn't ideal.
Yeah I'm working with my local makerspace to see if we can get an older (circa ~2000) precix cnc machine running - if not then I've got a local cabinet maker who is willing to cut it for me 👍
As to fusion vs AI or something else - honestly I've just not used Illustrator much - I chose the Photoshop path back in college and so I've been using fusion for this instead - it's been pretty great all things considered 🤷
Paul, if you don't mind, I'm using a Shapeoko 3 at work and was considering getting the 5 for myself. Overkill when I could probably outsource it or go to a makerspace, but I like having my own tools, etc. I basically wanted to ask if you had an opinion on the newer ones at all, or what you would recommend instead? I've been looking around and the 4 (I guess 5 was too new for the reviews I was reading) seemed to be the winner overall, without considering much more expensive professional ones at least. It looks like the newer ones have solved a lot of the issues you and I have dealt with, but I wanted to see if you came across additional reasons to avoid it that I might not have yet. Thanks!
@@mathaeis Ownership of the Shapeoko brand changed. Inventables, the maker of my Shapeoko 2, now makes the X-Carve machines. So the current Shapeoko 4 & 5 (& 3 I think) have nothing to do with my version, completely different company. If you're happy with the 3, then the 5 is even better. Myself, now that my machine is running on linear rails and ball screws, I would never go back to v-wheels or belts ever again. Also, getting a proper controller, Acorn CNC, with reliability and backlash control, is a game changer.
One last thought, if I was buying new today, if be looking at the next step up, at companies like Mill Right. For a little more money, they make Shapeoko look hobby grade.
Good luck!
Man, I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that CNC nightmare. I have one at work that I'm in charge of, and I feel like I've run into all the exact same nonsense that you are talking about and oh boy does it get old, haha. I'm glad you were able to find solutions over time though!
Also, you mentioned parameters in the last video about the diffusers, and I'm sure you are aware of this, but those will really help when it comes time to clean up your play field file.
For others that might not be aware: parameters are, well, parameters that you set in Fusion to indicate the exact measurement for a particular thing, so that when you start dimensioning your lines and shapes, you use the parameter variable instead of an actual number. That means that later on when you need to go back and make a change, you change it once in a table of parameters, and if you modeled things properly (parametric modeling), you *should* be able to update the entire file with every instance of that item all at once.
A good example here would be if Steve wanted to change all the 1" inserts to 1/2" (or maybe even just correcting the cut by a fraction of a mm to get a better fit). He could change the "circular insert size" parameter and any circle whose diameter was given a measurement of that variable (instead of manually typing a number in) would update automatically. The parametric modeling angle comes in when you consider the relationships of all the different parts. For instance, say that one of these inserts was 2 inches from something else, but for whatever reason that distance was measured from the perimeter of the circle instead of the center point. So when the circle shrinks, the center would move since the point that is locked down is whatever part of the perimeter is 2 inches from that other object. You can get some really funky results if you don't plan in advance (and to be clear - it's really, really easy to just start modeling things and not think you're going to care all that much later on, so I don't blame anyone for not doing this, especially for hobby projects, as I'm extremely guilty of this in 99% of my files).
But generally any time you are going to have repetition and iteration, it can be super helpful. Just think about moving on to a second pinball machine and having this really great set of measurement templates to start from once you've learned everything from the first machine!
Anyway, I hope that information is useful to someone! :D
Thanks for sticking with it. We admire your perseverance!
It's been a rough time the past several weeks, but onward and upward!! More good things to come
"Issues #3-666" lol
Looking great, and I like your willingness to trial, and error. You're quite aware of my dropped, and broken playfield, but you encouraged me to keep going, and I really appreciated that. This machine will be epic, and I really think you've got the layout strong. Keep digging Steve, and hopefully we can both play each other's homebrews someday.
Thanks Mike! I appreciate the support and encouragement from you as well! I really love the homebrew crowd, so many awesome people!
I'm planning on bringing my machine to pinball expo in Chicago in October, maybe we'll be able to meet then? No idea if that's close to you or not tho
your perseverance is incredible. you deserve to have this
Great to see you back, Steve. looking forward to seeing the inserts installed and working!
Finnaly he's back
yes I suspected that it would be very complicated to machine the inserts on a non-professional cnc. I myself made 2 cnc large volumes for my business a few years ago and I did not use them for my playfield and preferred the solution with the jigs and the router because I suspected that I would not have a convincing result. Thank you very much for this feedback because despite everything I had doubts. happy to see you in shape and ready for new adventures. in all the result seems nickel. congratulation

Interesting to hear that, Thibault - definitely ended up being more difficult than I expected, but next time should be better! 🤞😅
Great to see you back Steve!!! Would love to see some mpf tutorial stuff. I have been struuuuuugling and I'm hoping you are smarter than me and can explain it to me like I'm a newborn haha.
Yeah, I'm just starting with the basics, but it's going ok, I'll get some stuff up in the next few weeks around it 👍
So glad you’re posting again Steve! Stick with it and don’t get discouraged. I too have had many bad moments with my CNC but, when you look at the output, it really makes you realize that it would be completely impossible without one. And I think your current whitewood looks great-when you start using that higher quality plywood and better bits you will get even better results.
Can’t wait to see it after you’ve glued in the inserts!!
This series is amazing, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing your learnings and success/pains! Are you still having fun? Are you coming up with ideas where you have considered building another one?
Yes, I am having fun again! I really need to figure out a way to save up for my own cnc machine tho 😅 and yes, I have ideas for several other machines actually!
Haven't tried it but I feel like some silicone in loose fitting insert cuts would help to hold it in place and allow you to pop it out if need to.
hmmmm potentially, i don't know - not sure how that would work in conjunction with a clear coat over the to tho...?
Wow, what an immense learning curve. Sometimes that's all a guy can do, too - work through the process and find the trials before they're reached. But what a ride it's been so far! You're getting to a great place, though.
Would it be a lost opportunity to have a light in the middle of the star-arraingement, though? Some mega bonus mode?
Backstage Pass sounds AWESOME, by the way. Let me know when you're ready to start working on the printed manual.
Oooh! Dammit, that's a great idea to have an insert in the middle of the star 🤔 I'm going to have to seriously consider that! Ty!
First! So excited to watch!
I MISSED YOU SO MUCH OMG T>T
Looks good , even if it was tough getting here. I’m not sure on your appetite for buying a CNC, but I have my eye on a BobsCNC. Somewhat cheaper than an xcarve and big enough to cut a whole playfield at once. 🤷♂️
Yeah I really want to get one but I'd need the machine plus a place to put it, no room anywhere currently ☹️ one day I'll build a work shop on the side of my house maybe
Hope this doesn't stress you out--I mentioned this on one of your earlier videos--but have you thought about what happens to balls trapped on the stairs if Player 1 drains, and then it's Player 2's turn? I'm guessing you won't leave the balls on the stairs... or if you do, you'd have to plan to allow players to share the stairs locks... because engineering a way to load/unload stairs would be kind of a headache :)
You're doing great! Thanks for the new video :)
Yeah I think I replied to your other comment but yeah I'm leaning towards just coding in logic for a virtual lock count that whenever one players turn ends, the stairs get reset and the other player gets a fresh staircase, with the game knowing how many you had locked on prior turns etc - definitely going to take a bit of thought to make that work cleanly tho
@@thepinballroom I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think in one of the machines I own or maybe just one I played a while ago, a locked ball becomes the property of the current player. So if you don't take advantage of it, the next person reaps the potential benefits. So maybe that could be a solution as well if you wanted to instill a little more spice in potential competition?
Cool!
I have an idea for my own pin. I'll be designing circuitboards and writing the code for it. I have a theme and a layout. I just have to focus on the CNC cutting, which I have no current experience with
No worries, we're all here to help you! I don't think hardly anyone really is an expert at every step of this journey, we all have strengths and weaknesses and help each other out, so no worries you got this 👊
@@thepinballroom actually, I've made arcade games before. I now develop casino games, but pinball is my first love. I can design and code a fully modern pinball. I designed a slot machine/pinball hybrid years ago with Claude Fernandez, who used to work for Williams. We both worked at Games Of Nevada
I'm also in the Salt Lake Valley. I've been wanting to play some local pinball machines. Do you have any suggestions on places with good machines?
Depends on what's close to you, but the primary public spots I frequent are Quarters, Kiitos downtown and there's also an awesome new location "the LAB" up in Ogden
You should have 2x 3x 5x like the old pinballs and glad your back
Yeah I think you're right 👍