HORIZON ZERO DAWN Has Story Problems
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- I spend an hour talking about a game I didn't finish, going over wants, needs, desires, day in the lives, and transformations.
CHAPTERS
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:03:23 - Part I: A Disposable Intro
00:09:21 - Part II: The Universe Conspires
00:11:58 - Part III: Make The Rules, Break The Rules
00:17:02 - Part IV: Do We Need A Montage?
00:21:10 - Part V: Outcasts Are To Be Shunned...Unless They're Named Aloy
00:28:20 - Part VI: Aloy's Final Lesson
00:31:18 - Part VII: The Hard Goodbye
00:36:40 - Part VIII: The Sacred Mountain (Or Where I Lost Interest)
00:40:12 - Part IX: The Other Side Of The Coin
00:45:03 - Part X: Introducing Ezio
00:51:36 - Part XI: It Gets Real In Florence
00:56:22 - Part XII: Character Above All Else
00:59:15 - Part XIII: Conclusion
#horizonzerodawn #critique #analysis #assassinscreed #retrospective - เกม
Another great video! You'll hit 100k someday. Don't worry, Aloy remains stale bread to the end of the game. I'd love a video explaining Dark Soul's story confusion and why lore is buried. I know it's not a character story, but for my favorite game, it's always felt odd.
You know, to be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t be able to cover the Soulsbourne series. I absolutely love all of those games but the storytelling is so unique (and one I don’t really engage with while playing it) that I’m not qualified to speak on it. Thankfully we have Vaati Vidya for that (whose success is in taking those random snippets and relaying them AS stories).
One of my favorite moments, though, was draining the water from Old Londo, wondering why the ground sounded so squishy and realizing it’s a layer of drowned bodies. Amazing moment, one I’ll always remember.
I'm surprised by how much this video made me re evaluate the importance of lore.
Also liked the AC 2 comparison! That game does such a great job with its worldbuilding that you don't need any lore tidbits to fill in the gaps
I’m not against lore, just when lore is more important than the present-tense story. Like, Dark Souls is ‘All lore, all the time’ but you can largely ignore it. You have to make the choice to search it out, unlike HZD which has cutscenes and a scripted protagonist to watch/listen to.
You just blessed my feed!! Thank you
I wish they had focused more on the characters on both games. The first one i didnt care so much because of the world and the mysteries.
But Forbbiden West would have benefited a LOT from a more character focused story (due to the world not being a mistery anymore).
Anyway good video!
I figured the second game wouldn’t have so strong of mysteries. Hard to keep that going
@@thegammelier Yeah, it does not have.
And the characters didn't captivated me either.
Well just Sylens as usual
I really, really loved the backstory/lore in this, but I definitely agree on the main story. Aloy's voice actress is just stellar though, I don't know why but I could listen to her dialogue for days.
Can’t argue that, Ashly Burch was really good. Same with Kassandra in AC Odyssey: loved her character/voice actress, didn’t care for the story
Been waiting for this
I recorded this while my kids were asleep, that’s why I speak pretty softly throughout the vid
That and the drinking…
Also copyright dug its claws into the montage song bit, so when there’s an abrupt cut you know why
Dude I was shocked to see just 600 views on this video. The quality of your videos and your critical analysis will definitely make you go far soon. You will get millions and I'll be able to say I was here before the thousand.
Just gotta keep on that grind until then!
Problem is people don't like to hear criticism about their favorite games, I like Horizon Zero Dawn a lot, but I can fully accept its flawed, forbidden west narrativly wise on the other hand.... disaster
Man I was kinda upset I wouldn’t be able to watch the video since I’ve never touched Horizon in my life, it was such a welcome surprise when 2 minutes in you said you didn’t finish the game 😂
Edit: Aight 3 minutes and 22 seconds in and he said spoilers for HZD. Gonna assume it’s for the whole game so I’ll have to come back to this after I play it. Still wanted to drop a comment to show support since I love your style. Would absolutely love to see you do a Death Stranding analysis someday. Keep up the good work!
Oooh, that could be in the future, for sure!
Edit: Good assumption, I do cover most of the big reveals in the game.
39:00 Oh man, just a minute before this moment i've said "Oh, so they Skyrimmed her" and you just immediately came to the same conclusion :D
Ok. Id actually pay you to make a video on why Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is considered a masterpiece despite being extremely predictable. That movie so predictable I was calling out the direction of the movie was going as I watched it in theatres. And it got me to laugh, to cry, to get attached to every major character (how they pulled that off with Perrito, the dreaded comic relief, is something a master class needs to be made on).
Seeing you break it down would be awesome.
Completely predictable, you see all the beats coming a mile away - and they all work. It’s incredible.
I think the reason is how they handled it all. Sure its predictable which in of itself adds tension to the story cause we know Puss has to face his fears before the end and we see just how impacted he and the other characters are by each others actions and that of people they knew whether we see it or not directly in the film (Kitty being abused by her family which is more of a first movie thing that helps drive her in the second movie along with Puss being Puss) while Perrito I love cause while he is the comic relief he isn’t annoying due to a focus on more joyful and well optimistic jokes he contrast the other two mains well as the heart of the trio, he is naive and trusting and wants to see the good in everything despite the pain he went through. He wants to be happy and is grateful for his life cause when you have only been in the dumps the only place to go is up. Plus lets be honest him always winning in basically everything while everyone is bogged down by their desires and personal fears perrito wants, desires and needs space the path to be very safe cause he needs the wish the least, he isn’t desperate or wishing for something cause he wants to live in the here with what he got. It serves as a good showcase of the main theme in that way.
I love MGS games i can remember what's with going on with out major issue any problem . I don't remember anything about this game and i beat this game twice one on PS4 and PC
This was a pretty great video. The thorough breakdowns, as well as the comparisons to ACII, really kept my attention. I definitely learned a lot. Honestly, my conclusion to this video is that HZD is a world-driven game masquerading as a character-driven game. Aloy as a person isn't really that important to the story. The only things that matter are the circumstances of her birth and how she relates to the people around her. But Aloy the person is fairly irrelevant.
If it means anything, I played HZD a few years ago but got bored a bit after you finally get to leave the village. When you introduced the story of the game... I had absolutely forgotten that Aloy was an outcast at all. That whole plot point just didn't leave an impression on me, probably because the plot itself kept waving away her being an outcast.
On another note, while looking at your channel I almost skipped this video. Since title is a bit vague, I didn't really know what I was getting into or what point the video was going to aim to make. Maybe "Character and Worldbuilding: Horizon Zero Dawn vs ACII" or something would been more interesting and attention-grabbing - but that's just my personal opinion.
The biggest disappointment in the second game was that they did give Aloy a flaw to overcome. They set up her Impostor syndrome (comparing herself to Elisabeth) PERFECTLY. Then they dropped THAT halfway down the line cause you only interact with the space dudes like twice the entire game.
Oh man, that would frustrate me greatly...
@@thegammelier
Man, if I had video editing skills like yours, I'd definitely make an hour video on that one myself- cause, boyyyy there were so many holes in that story. But not enough people talk about that and I feel like a crazy dude in a straitjacket.
But I'll save you the trouble and tell you Forbidden West spends a majority of its runtime setting up the third game instead of being in the moment and finishing its own story.
Good analysis. I have also a frustraion with contradictions in the story and blend Aloy. Lore of the world is interesting only.
....rost got permission from the person in charge.
Rost let aloy keep the focus because the punishment is...the thing theyre already living...hes just trying to enforce a valueless rule. A life sentence inmate can break rules openly because nothings changing whether he does or doesn't. Also, religious folk can be flexible, its 2024, how have we regressed in our understanding of this.
Rost said she wont see him again in the context of...yknow...normal circumstances and its not even a rule....hes doing that for separate reasons. And the story goes on to elaborate that in order to help others hes willingly done things with full acceptance of the consequences.
The gate is everyone doing the indirect speech no different than with aloy.
Every side quests says theyre willing to break the rules because.............*inhales frustration*, because people break rules when they think they can get away with it ._ .
Aloy directly calls out the weirdness and they literally make it clear the peoples attitude about its rules are that ridiculously 2 faced and aloy resents that.
Aloy...doesnt have opinions? Literally the rest of the game needs you to explain that argument 😅.
Like...isnt her pointing out no ones watching when helping someone an opinion? Is the issue her interests are more narrow 😊
Aloys "need" is to become understanding. Shes totally willing to break the rules but resents the idea she has to eventually enforce them. She doesn't understand people, the world or even herself and needs to figure it out which is still happening after this game.
I literally based all of this off of the same segment you played only with a tiny bit of mentions of later stuff.
I’m happy the story worked for you, as I know it did for a lot of people. Didn’t work for me, though
One of the many issues with Horizon is that the characters (including Aloy) feel like cardboard. They're bland and boring. And they all feel the same. Even the robots have more personality than them. Also, the bland dialogue with what feels like childish level of writing doesn't help either.
B4 I continue to watch, as a Zero Dawn Enjoyer i did have a strong burden in my chest when i played the game for the first time. I didn't understand the story and cant remember much if not any of it. The game is badly paced and the dialogue is awkward....
The pacing is further ruined by the open world, the world is huge and often a story mission is on a part you have never explored. This means that you have to travel long distances to get to the story. While this does force open world exploring the issue i have is that it forces open world exploring.
Aloy is someone who you can control the responses of and it has next to no effect on the story. Every one of the main characters either dies, gets lost or becomes irrelevant. The side quest are the saving grace but they're side quests (optional not necessary) and at some point of the story, it forces you to do a side quest to continue (wtf).
Either than that, i really like Zero Dawn, fr. Who wouldn't want to fight a robo dino bird while riding a robo bull and shooting electric spider exploding arrows with revealing armour w00t! heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I've enjoyed both games but never really noticed how much I didn't feel so strongly about Aloy. It was always the world driving me to keep playing as well as every other character aside from her. Hell, I enjoyed how involved others are in the second game's main story as they're active in solving it. But Aloy was just there for me to play. She's like lettuce, bland on its own without adding anything else. She's not a character like Commander Shepard from Mass Effect where all of their characteristics are developed by me. She's not like Kratos whose character is established and develops throughout the game. She takes the worst bits of both styles and she suffers for it. She's a little bit better in the second game because she's kind of forced to have one with all the people she's constantly interacting with. They could've done this by going more into the dialogue system that they kinda cheaply have. With this, the player could have had a hand in forging who Aloy is. Just a shame really because it is a beautiful series they've made but its held back by
Yeah, most players seem to consider Aloy just ‘there’ while they enjoy the mysteries and gameplay.
@@thegammelier that would've been a fine game had not been so story-centric with Aloy being the primary focus.
Funnily enough, the one time I tried watching a playthrough for this game... I began losing interest during the montage, too :P
I don't care about any of the games you mentioned in this video, but i definitely enjoyed this take. Someday, I'll play a game you cover. 1 month until Diablo 4. Just sayin
You know I'll never cover a Diablo game. But I probably will do a video on all the Blizzard shorts...
@@thegammelier let me guess what's first.... th-cam.com/video/q7j2d6YCQbg/w-d-xo.html
You know me well…
Glad to hear that you gave Control a second try and enjoyed it :)
It's one of my favorite games of all time.
I have never played Horizon Zero Dawn and have never felt a strong need to do so. It's always just felt like such a nothing game to me. Plus, the voice acting in general just seems.... Off. Often majorly so. Just crazy amounts of uncanny valley.
Plus, it's a part of the "Open World Third Person Clear Objective From Map, Climb Big Tower to Reveal Enemy Camp with a Servicable Story" genre. Which is automatically unappealing to me. A game like that really needs a solid hook, and robot dino just doesn't do it for me :P
If it's ever on some massive sale, I might get it on steam and give it a go.
But as it stands, it joins Days Gone in the list of Playstation games I do not really care about lol
Control's awesome, I don't know why I bounced off it initially. Same with Witcher 3, I stopped after a few hours, came back to it later, 200 hours later it's one of my favs.
I think BotW and Elden Ring have pushed open worlds forward enough that we're hopefully past the objective based design. I absolutely loved AC2, Far Cry 3, and a few of the other, early entries to the genre but, man, did it get stale after a decade.
@@thegammelier Witcher 3 was an interesting one for me. I quit it after 43hrs lol
I felt so removed from the ciri stuff as getalt that the story lost all sense of urgency. The (really fun) side quests also added to this
Still, I hope it return to it someday, I suppose.
To me, character (and relationships) are King. So if a story lacks that... I'm just gonna bounce off of it. And most of the open world objective checklist games lack a strong character.
I could care less about finding hidden caches on top of towers that say nothing about the character lol
I could agree that Geralt and Ciri feel removed from each other…until you find her. Then the actual crux of the story becomes more apparent. I don’t think it’s a spoiler to say the story is really about Geralt learning to let Ciri be her own adult, rather than always protect her.
@thegammelier control is fantastic. but listen here. its depth goes even deeper into other remedy properties.
Alan Wake from 2010 feeds in directly to Control in multi faceted ways. through its DLC AWE which centers itself around the Bright Falls incident (bright falls is the fictional Washington town where weird stuff happens) and where a FBC sector is now stationed there. which will be further expanded on in Alan wake 2. and Control 2.
I wasn’t going to watch as soon as you mentioned you never finished the game but I liked your God of War videos too much. (SPOILERS)
I feel like most of your points about Aloy get shattered the moment you realise that curiosity is one of Aloys characteristics (she was always going to find a focus). Avatar the Last Airbender is probably the best cartoon of all time and episode 1 has Katara and Sokka just stumble across Aang and Zuko also just happened to be exploring this exact location. Aloys best self isn’t being good with a bow and arrow, In Forbidden West Aloy feels like she could never live up and achieve what Elisabet did and Elisabet can’t even use a bow. Rules being established and then broken isn’t really true, I was raised Muslim and being gay was bad yet we could listen to Freddy mercury, or watching Harry Potter was bad because magic but we could watch Toy Story or ATLA, these rules are legit but people are also human without perfect logical consistency.
I believe the first Horizon has one of the best story’s in gaming, it’s problems are the characters. I only really cared about Aloy/Elisabet and Sylens, The sequel gave old and new characters way more attention, exploration and depth but the amazing crew at Guerrilla just can’t do it like Mass Effects era BioWare, Naughty dog, Rockstar or CDPR. Aloy has huge drive and curiosity, her needs and wants start out very simple and lead to crazy mind blowing revelations, finding out the truth about the old world and new ways of life being tribes and robots, the new religions being based on old world technology was truly an fascinating experience and I also love how the “evil” hades is perfectly explained on why it would want to destroy the world , for me it made a tired trope of saving the world actually feel fresh and feasible. The final scene with Aloy seeing and listening to Elisabet made me tear up a little and it was just one character talking to herself in a recording.
The fact that most this video is talking about the opening and Rost make it clear you didn’t play the game through because there’s so just much more cool and interesting things to talk about, GAIA and the subordinate functions being at the top of that list, or what Ted Faro did with Apollo. I thought it was overhyped too at first but after a replay I believe That the franchise is actually underrated.
Horizon has always been about the gameplay for me its execution in its story is boring. Fbw does it best to be better but aloy is a flat character and the stuff in the dlc doesnt change that, she needs more vulnerabilities. Instead of being everyone saviour all the time. Which is weird because she's an outcast
I've been binging your content while working, since i find it the best that unhinged part of my brain is preoccupied listening to something relatively complex and not interfering with my work.
But on this video, i've kinda got stuck at 30:20. There's something in the game's dialogue or maybe the whole tribal angle of it just made me irrationally angry.
I wonder if that's due to the way dialogue is written, or the underlying feeling of protagonist being talked down by this cardboard cutout, or just condescending way the game depicts tribalistic society, but it just makes my blood slooowly cook up to boiling stage, which took about 30 minutes.
I wonder if it is just me, or someone else feels the same and wants to point out the reason behind my reaction.
Hmm, maybe it's because of this 33:23 - the feeling of utter falseness? Like the game just feeds us bullshit while also pretending that said bullshit actually has internal consistency and makes sense, while it is blatantly fake.
So I'm late, but I'll say this:
The mystery of the story for this game is great. Genuinely, I love it and think it's amazing.
The characters? Not so much. Rost had potential, but they offed him and they shelved Varl. Sylens is good as well, but the problem is that Aloy, to me, is not a good character. She's annoying and poorly written.
HZD was onto somethin', but they fumbled.
Never too late, thanks for watching